Notices
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 188
Like Tree75Likes

Thread: Being fat is OK.

  1. #1 Being fat is OK. 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,843
    Simply being called 'fat' makes young girls more likely to become obese: Trying to be thin is like trying to be tall -- ScienceDaily


    Researchers looking at teenagers becoming fat discovered that simply being labelled as 'fat' when younger dramatically increases risk of obesity. In addition, losing weight gave no health benefits. In fact, being overweight or even low level obese was associated with lower mortality.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Of course. This was pointed out several years ago. Back then it was due because doctors would actually treat and test those that oversight for things they would not normally in average or thin patients.

    Being fat is never okay, just like being underweight is never okay either. Although I admit to preferring being underweight, however I have mostly been that range in my life as well. I do not agree with any type of idealisation or bashing. Since this is on topic, I would like opinions on why fat bashing is often more scrutinised over skinny bashing.


    avec amour,
    RM
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    exchemist
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,532
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Of course. This was pointed out several years ago. Back then it was due because doctors would actually treat and test those that oversight for things they would not normally in average or thin patients.

    Being fat is never okay, just like being underweight is never okay either. Although I admit to preferring being underweight, however I have mostly been that range in my life as well. I do not agree with any type of idealisation or bashing. Since this is on topic, I would like opinions on why fat bashing is often more scrutinised over skinny bashing.
    Because, in the US at least, far, far more people are too fat than are too thin, and they are too fat by a far, far greater margin than anywhere else. As a European, I was shocked, appalled and disgusted when I moved to Houston for few years, to see how grossly fat quite a lot of people were, in a way you just never see in Europe. I mean, these were people who could barely walk, they were so fat. (Im convinced it's the cars and the Coca Cola that do it, both symbols of success in the American dream of prosperity, culturally ingrained (largely by advertising) since the 1950s post war boom. And the cheap fast food too, of course.)

    But as this becomes recognised for the evil that it is, and the debate starts about dealing with it, it creates new psychological pressures due to conflict with this culture. Part of the trouble may be that there is no longer a recognisable norm of healthy body shape, as so many people are fat, so there is insecurity about what normal looks like and hence what should be aimed at.
    Last edited by exchemist; May 1st, 2014 at 04:39 AM. Reason: missing phrase added for clarity
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    I have seen very, very few old fat people. Suggestive? Correlation? Cause and effect?



    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    As a European, I was shocked, appalled and disgusted when I moved to Houston for few years, to see how grossly fat quite a lot of people were, in a way you just never see in Europe.
    I visit Houston four or five times a year. My greatest fear is sitting in my seat on the tarmac at Heathrow or Schipol and seeing one of those people coming down the aisle, and I have an empty seat next to me. The horror!
    exchemist likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    exchemist
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,532
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    I have seen very, very few old fat people. Suggestive? Correlation? Cause and effect?



    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    As a European, I was shocked, appalled and disgusted when I moved to Houston for few years, to see how grossly fat quite a lot of people were, in a way you just never see in Europe.
    I visit Houston four or five times a year. My greatest fear is sitting in my seat on the tarmac at Heathrow or Schipol and seeing one of those people coming down the aisle, and I have an empty seat next to me. The horror!
    Indeed!

    More seriously, there does seem to be a distinction to be drawn, on health if not aesthetic grounds, between being merely overweight and being technically obese. There is no doubt at all that the latter has serious health implications: Obesity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , whereas the former may not necessarily - apparently. It is the prevalence of true obesity in the US that struck me as so different from Europe - there are lots of merely overweight people in all the developed countries. And the culture of not walking ANYWHERE and the constant availability of Coca Cola struck me forcibly. Conversely, Americans who come to work in London have often told me how much exercise they get commuting to work, which - after a while - they often grow to appreciate. And several of them expressed their shock at finding we had no coke dispensers in our offices - which I thought revealing.

    But we Brits are getting fatter, so no room for gloating……….
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    ox
    ox is offline
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    881
    Fat is the new thin. Get used to it, but if like me you are skinny take great delight in picking up the pace when jogging past obese people (schadenfreude).
    BBC News - Overweight seen as the norm, says chief medical officer
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Fat is the new thin. Get used to it, but if like me you are skinny take great delight in picking up the pace when jogging past obese people (schadenfreude).
    BBC News - Overweight seen as the norm, says chief medical officer
    Fat will NEVER be the new thin. I highly resent that, even the concept in jest.
    avec amour,
    RM
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Yukon, Canada
    Posts
    4,054
    Our culture idolizes an unrealistic body image by-and-large. The rising level of obesity, I attribute to the availability of high caloric density processed food which does not satisfy nutritional requirements and an increasingly sedentary lifestyle. It is quite possible to reduce weight and increase fitness simply through a change in what one eats, portion control and increased activity, but the benefits are only realized when lifestyle changes are maintained. A 'healthy weight' may well be somewhat heavier than the media is wont to portray.

    "Eating in moderation is a good idea for everybody, and so is regular exercise," Mann said at the time of the initial study.

    "If dieting worked, it wouldn't be a $60 billion dollar industry," said Tomiyama, who noted that trying to be thin is similar to trying to be taller.
    "The genetic power over weight is about the same as the power of genes over your height," she said. "People who say it's your fault if you're fat underappreciate the role of genes."
    (From the link in the OP)

    As regards there being far fewer overweight elderly people, I would hypothesize that people of my mother's generation learned portion control at an early age and cooked largely from scratch, eating more whole foods than processed ones. The elderly folk that I know are still more physically active than many youth, busy gardening and moving about instead of being sedentary, playing with a screen. Other factors in aging can be dentition issues and reduced ability to absorb nutrition, with resulting gradual weight loss.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Of course. This was pointed out several years ago. Back then it was due because doctors would actually treat and test those that oversight for things they would not normally in average or thin patients.

    Being fat is never okay, just like being underweight is never okay either. Although I admit to preferring being underweight, however I have mostly been that range in my life as well. I do not agree with any type of idealisation or bashing. Since this is on topic, I would like opinions on why fat bashing is often more scrutinised over skinny bashing.
    Because, in the US at least, far, far more people are too fat than are too thin, and they are too fat by a far, far greater margin than anywhere else. As a European, I was shocked, appalled and disgusted when I moved to Houston for few years, to see how grossly fat quite a lot of people were, in a way you just never see in Europe. I mean, these were people who could barely walk, they were so fat. (Im convinced it's the cars and the Coca Cola that do it, both symbols of success in the American dream of prosperity, culturally ingrained (largely by advertising) since the 1950s post war boom. And the cheap fast food too, of course.)

    But as this becomes recognised for the evil that it is, and the debate starts about dealing with it, it creates new psychological pressures due to conflict with this culture. Part of the trouble may be that there is no longer a recognisable norm of healthy body shape, as so many people are fat, so there is insecurity about what normal looks like and hence what should be aimed at.
    Laugh out loud. There are a lot of fat people in the US. Although, from my understanding, now-a-days Mexico hold the throne at being the "fattest" country in the world. This also comes to no surprise to me, have you ever been to a Mexican restaurant? Holy crap! That is some seriously high caloric meals but they sure seem worth it. I do have a guilty pleasure for cheese dip and an A.C.P. I know that it also has to do with food prices; like in Israel the healthy food is cheap and junk food is expensive. Here in the US it is easier to swing by McDonalds or KFC, Carl's Jr., etc., than it is to prepare a nice home meal. Thanks to the dollar menu, it also becomes "more affordable".
    avec amour,
    RM
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    exchemist
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,532
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Our culture idolizes an unrealistic body image by-and-large. The rising level of obesity, I attribute to the availability of high caloric density processed food which does not satisfy nutritional requirements and an increasingly sedentary lifestyle. It is quite possible to reduce weight and increase fitness simply through a change in what one eats, portion control and increased activity, but the benefits are only realized when lifestyle changes are maintained. A 'healthy weight' may well be somewhat heavier than the media is wont to portray.

    "Eating in moderation is a good idea for everybody, and so is regular exercise," Mann said at the time of the initial study.

    "If dieting worked, it wouldn't be a $60 billion dollar industry," said Tomiyama, who noted that trying to be thin is similar to trying to be taller.
    "The genetic power over weight is about the same as the power of genes over your height," she said. "People who say it's your fault if you're fat underappreciate the role of genes."
    (From the link in the OP)

    As regards there being far fewer overweight elderly people, I would hypothesize that people of my mother's generation learned portion control at an early age and cooked largely from scratch, eating more whole foods than processed ones. The elderly folk that I know are still more physically active than many youth, busy gardening and moving about instead of being sedentary, playing with a screen. Other factors in aging can be dentition issues and reduced ability to absorb nutrition, with resulting gradual weight loss.
    The ones you and John G are talking about are the ones that have not died early, due to obesity.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    exchemist
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,532
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Fat is the new thin. Get used to it, but if like me you are skinny take great delight in picking up the pace when jogging past obese people (schadenfreude).
    BBC News - Overweight seen as the norm, says chief medical officer
    Fat will NEVER be the new thin. I highly resent that, even the concept in jest.
    Oh but it is! Just take a look at the body shapes in modern Disney cartoons, compared with those a generation ago. The "normal" ones are now fat.

    (By the way, "avec amour" is going it a bit isn't it? We haven't even been introduced. A simple "cordialement" would do fine, surely? But then I don't live in Beverley Hills of course.)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Yukon, Canada
    Posts
    4,054
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Our culture idolizes an unrealistic body image by-and-large. The rising level of obesity, I attribute to the availability of high caloric density processed food which does not satisfy nutritional requirements and an increasingly sedentary lifestyle. It is quite possible to reduce weight and increase fitness simply through a change in what one eats, portion control and increased activity, but the benefits are only realized when lifestyle changes are maintained. A 'healthy weight' may well be somewhat heavier than the media is wont to portray.

    "Eating in moderation is a good idea for everybody, and so is regular exercise," Mann said at the time of the initial study.

    "If dieting worked, it wouldn't be a $60 billion dollar industry," said Tomiyama, who noted that trying to be thin is similar to trying to be taller.
    "The genetic power over weight is about the same as the power of genes over your height," she said. "People who say it's your fault if you're fat underappreciate the role of genes."
    (From the link in the OP)

    As regards there being far fewer overweight elderly people, I would hypothesize that people of my mother's generation learned portion control at an early age and cooked largely from scratch, eating more whole foods than processed ones. The elderly folk that I know are still more physically active than many youth, busy gardening and moving about instead of being sedentary, playing with a screen. Other factors in aging can be dentition issues and reduced ability to absorb nutrition, with resulting gradual weight loss.
    The ones you and John G are talking about are the ones that have not died early, due to obesity.
    You will notice that I did qualify my remark by identifying elderly as being from my mother's generation. Obesity (and convenience food) has been largely (no pun intended) a phenomenon of more recent times. I expect that with the intervention of the medical profession that we shall soon be observing an increase in the obese aged, which will pose a serious problem for care-givers. Not to be too graphic but it takes a hoist and three interns to get a whale to the toilet and back.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Fat is the new thin. Get used to it, but if like me you are skinny take great delight in picking up the pace when jogging past obese people (schadenfreude).
    BBC News - Overweight seen as the norm, says chief medical officer
    Fat will NEVER be the new thin. I highly resent that, even the concept in jest.
    Oh but it is! Just take a look at the body shapes in modern Disney cartoons, compared with those a generation ago. The "normal" ones are now fat.

    (By the way, "avec amour" is going it a bit isn't it? We haven't even been introduced. A simple "cordialement" would do fine, surely? But then I don't live in Beverley Hills of course.)
    That is a failed attempt of the US to induce fat acceptance in society. I mean you get a couple of parents whine and complain about how unfair and cruel it is to only have thin characters. Oh that goes a long way here, not saying that is what happened. Either way, I completely disagree and I find it appalling that fat seems to be almost desired. I was criticised once at a department store for being too skinny, yet you do not see people criticising the fatter side. Oh but it would be cruel to point out how someone is fat? I honestly do not like any type of body shaming but I also cannot tolerate all this overweight people who could easily avoid it, especially given the quality of life. NO, I am not saying thinner people have better lives than fat people, but you also have to admit that being overweight stops you from a lot.

    Laugh out loud. What? Are you referring to my signature? Hmmm, I also hope you are not mocking me based on where I live.
    avec amour,
    RM
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    exchemist
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,532
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    That is a failed attempt of the US to induce fat acceptance in society. I mean you get a couple of parents whine and complain about how unfair and cruel it is to only have thin characters. Oh that goes a long way here, not saying that is what happened. Either way, I completely disagree and I find it appalling that fat seems to be almost desired. I was criticised once at a department store for being too skinny, yet you do not see people criticising the fatter side. Oh but it would be cruel to point out how someone is fat? I honestly do not like any type of body shaming but I also cannot tolerate all this overweight people who could easily avoid it, especially given the quality of life. NO, I am not saying thinner people have better lives than fat people, but you also have to admit that being overweight stops you from a lot.

    Laugh out loud. What? Are you referring to my signature? Hmmm, I also hope you are not mocking me based on where I live.
    Actually I think Disney, being good at marketing, whatever one thinks of the artistic values of their films, have acutely recognised that their middle American audiences need to identify with the characters. So they make them resemble them.

    The signature surprised me, as your name sounds French, but I cannot imagine my French wife would ever dream of using such an intimate sounding expression as a footer on public messages. But Beverley Hill is full of actors and actresses, so maybe they are a bit over the top - as they are here. We call them "luvvies".
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Of course. This was pointed out several years ago. Back then it was due because doctors would actually treat and test those that oversight for things they would not normally in average or thin patients.

    Being fat is never okay, just like being underweight is never okay either. Although I admit to preferring being underweight, however I have mostly been that range in my life as well. I do not agree with any type of idealisation or bashing. Since this is on topic, I would like opinions on why fat bashing is often more scrutinised over skinny bashing.
    (nods)
    Really depends what you mean by "fat." Mildly overweight is actually the best size based on optimize lifespan--outliving both the thin and obese.
    adelady and scheherazade like this.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    That is a failed attempt of the US to induce fat acceptance in society. I mean you get a couple of parents whine and complain about how unfair and cruel it is to only have thin characters. Oh that goes a long way here, not saying that is what happened. Either way, I completely disagree and I find it appalling that fat seems to be almost desired. I was criticised once at a department store for being too skinny, yet you do not see people criticising the fatter side. Oh but it would be cruel to point out how someone is fat? I honestly do not like any type of body shaming but I also cannot tolerate all this overweight people who could easily avoid it, especially given the quality of life. NO, I am not saying thinner people have better lives than fat people, but you also have to admit that being overweight stops you from a lot.

    Laugh out loud. What? Are you referring to my signature? Hmmm, I also hope you are not mocking me based on where I live.
    Actually I think Disney, being good at marketing, whatever one thinks of the artistic values of their films, have acutely recognised that their middle American audiences need to identify with the characters. So they make them resemble them.

    The signature surprised me, as your name sounds French, but I cannot imagine my French wife would ever dream of using such an intimate sounding expression as a footer on public messages. But Beverley Hill is full of actors and actresses, so maybe they are a bit over the top - as they are here. We call them "luvvies".
    Laugh out loud. So either way, it is sort of a fat acceptance going on in there.
    I do no feel it is intimate per say, but it is an inside joke, once more from another forum I was a member of. Anyhow, it is also not like I am saying I love YOU. I mean after all, love is chemically obsession. And oh my god! That is not fair whatsoever, in any case cliché.
    avec amour,
    RM
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Of course. This was pointed out several years ago. Back then it was due because doctors would actually treat and test those that oversight for things they would not normally in average or thin patients.

    Being fat is never okay, just like being underweight is never okay either. Although I admit to preferring being underweight, however I have mostly been that range in my life as well. I do not agree with any type of idealisation or bashing. Since this is on topic, I would like opinions on why fat bashing is often more scrutinised over skinny bashing.
    (nods)
    Really depends what you mean by "fat." Mildly overweight is actually the best size based on optimize lifespan--outliving both the thin and obese.
    Fat is fat. Laugh out loud. I mean I do not mean fat as on someone with a body fat percentage of 12-16%, although that is high even by my personal standards. Although to think of it, even 20% may not be that fat. I dunno, I have never been in that range so I could not compare and I honestly could not know what 20% body fat looks on a person. Does not sound too bad, I believe my aunt is around that percentage and she is still considered relatively thin by most standards. Yes, I do agree. When I was severely underweight, even up to a BMI of 16.7, I could not enjoy amusement parks like I would have wanted to. Last year even at 17.9, it was pretty bad going on those roller coasters. Anyhow, I digress.
    avec amour,
    RM
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Of course. This was pointed out several years ago. Back then it was due because doctors would actually treat and test those that oversight for things they would not normally in average or thin patients.

    Being fat is never okay, just like being underweight is never okay either. Although I admit to preferring being underweight, however I have mostly been that range in my life as well. I do not agree with any type of idealisation or bashing. Since this is on topic, I would like opinions on why fat bashing is often more scrutinised over skinny bashing.
    (nods)
    Really depends what you mean by "fat." Mildly overweight is actually the best size based on optimize lifespan--outliving both the thin and obese.
    Fat is fat. Laugh out loud. I mean I do not mean fat as on someone with a body fat percentage of 12-16%, although that is high even by my personal standards. Although to think of it, even 20% may not be that fat. I dunno, I have never been in that range so I could not compare and I honestly could not know what 20% body fat looks on a person. Does not sound too bad, I believe my aunt is around that percentage and she is still considered relatively thin by most standards. Yes, I do agree. When I was severely underweight, even up to a BMI of 16.7, I could not enjoy amusement parks like I would have wanted to. Last year even at 17.9, it was pretty bad going on those roller coasters. Anyhow, I digress.
    Stick to the science.

    In general the upper end of "normal" and lower end of overweight appear to be healthiest particularly if combined with exercise. The chart used BMI; fat % might be better but varies a lot depending on gender.
    scheherazade likes this.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    exchemist
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,532
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Of course. This was pointed out several years ago. Back then it was due because doctors would actually treat and test those that oversight for things they would not normally in average or thin patients.

    Being fat is never okay, just like being underweight is never okay either. Although I admit to preferring being underweight, however I have mostly been that range in my life as well. I do not agree with any type of idealisation or bashing. Since this is on topic, I would like opinions on why fat bashing is often more scrutinised over skinny bashing.


    (nods)
    Really depends what you mean by "fat." Mildly overweight is actually the best size based on optimize lifespan--outliving both the thin and obese.
    Fat is fat. Laugh out loud. I mean I do not mean fat as on someone with a body fat percentage of 12-16%, although that is high even by my personal standards. Although to think of it, even 20% may not be that fat. I dunno, I have never been in that range so I could not compare and I honestly could not know what 20% body fat looks on a person. Does not sound too bad, I believe my aunt is around that percentage and she is still considered relatively thin by most standards. Yes, I do agree. When I was severely underweight, even up to a BMI of 16.7, I could not enjoy amusement parks like I would have wanted to. Last year even at 17.9, it was pretty bad going on those roller coasters. Anyhow, I digress.
    Stick to the science.

    In general the upper end of "normal" and lower end of overweight appear to be healthiest particularly if combined with exercise. The chart used BMI; fat % might be better but varies a lot depending on gender.
    Interestingly, I gather BMI around 25 is considered by men to be the most physically attractive in women
    scheherazade likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Yukon, Canada
    Posts
    4,054
    The BMI chart is considered to be a very rudimentary guideline because it does not accurately take bone size and density into account. I have very big bones, and even at the peak of fitness after completing the toughest sled dog race on the planet, my BMI was 22. My comfort range is 23.5-24.5 yet people do not consider me fat as I am quite active and moderately fit, especially for a mature female. I can set the pace for many half my age.

    The one time I dropped weight down to a BMI of 19-20 due to an extremely stressful employment situation, I had a coat hangar body for a fact and I looked like I was on death's door, yet by the simplistic math of the BMI scale, I was still quite within a 'healthy' weight range.

    I think not.

    Men in this part of the world prefer their women to look like they might be able to pack water and carry wood, lol...Certainly, I have never lacked for 'expressions of interest.'
    Lynx_Fox likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    exchemist
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,532
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    The BMI chart is considered to be a very rudimentary guideline because it does not accurately take bone size and density into account. I have very big bones, and even at the peak of fitness after completing the toughest sled dog race on the planet, my BMI was 22. My comfort range is 23.5-24.5 yet people do not consider me fat as I am quite active and moderately fit, especially for a mature female. I can set the pace for many half my age.

    The one time I dropped weight down to a BMI of 19-20 due to an extremely stressful employment situation, I had a coat hangar body for a fact and I looked like I was on death's door, yet by the simplistic math of the BMI scale, I was still quite within a 'healthy' weight range.

    I think not.

    Men in this part of the world prefer their women to look like they might be able to pack water and carry wood, lol...Certainly, I have never lacked for 'expressions of interest.'
    Yes a lot also depends on muscle tone. I've spent most of my life rowing and my own taste in women has probably been shaped a little by that. But I suspect it is not coincidence that the healthiest range is the most attractive to the opposite sex, by and large.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #22  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    I'm short for my weight.
    Bad Robot, babe and DogLady like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #23  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Of course. This was pointed out several years ago. Back then it was due because doctors would actually treat and test those that oversight for things they would not normally in average or thin patients.

    Being fat is never okay, just like being underweight is never okay either. Although I admit to preferring being underweight, however I have mostly been that range in my life as well. I do not agree with any type of idealisation or bashing. Since this is on topic, I would like opinions on why fat bashing is often more scrutinised over skinny bashing.
    (nods)
    Really depends what you mean by "fat." Mildly overweight is actually the best size based on optimize lifespan--outliving both the thin and obese.
    Fat is fat. Laugh out loud. I mean I do not mean fat as on someone with a body fat percentage of 12-16%, although that is high even by my personal standards. Although to think of it, even 20% may not be that fat. I dunno, I have never been in that range so I could not compare and I honestly could not know what 20% body fat looks on a person. Does not sound too bad, I believe my aunt is around that percentage and she is still considered relatively thin by most standards. Yes, I do agree. When I was severely underweight, even up to a BMI of 16.7, I could not enjoy amusement parks like I would have wanted to. Last year even at 17.9, it was pretty bad going on those roller coasters. Anyhow, I digress.
    Stick to the science.

    In general the upper end of "normal" and lower end of overweight appear to be healthiest particularly if combined with exercise. The chart used BMI; fat % might be better but varies a lot depending on gender.
    Erm, BMI is not a very accurate basis to measure health. This is why you have a lot of skinny fat people, which are not necessarily healthy per say. For the latter part, yes fat percentage does vary depending on gender but there is also a basis for "acceptable" percentages for both male and female, as it is with BMI.
    avec amour,
    RM
    Reply With Quote  
     

  25. #24  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    Agree they are both crude measurements. Even at that however a lot of the ideas we have about body fat and BMI are rather dated and underestimate fat for optimum health.

    For example when we look at men and the chart below we find that optimum BMI of 27.5, averages 25% body fat. But when we look at the body fat chart posted in #23, we find the categories of "fit" and "healthy" well below this and therefore quite misleading. The fit category is badly misleading, using myself as an example I was borderline for about half the body fat test I took in the army--yet more often than not achieved max score in physical fitness test (and all but once got Presidential physical fitness badge), routinely did ten mile fun runs, a marathon and ultra marathon--I was NEVER below 20%body fat my entire 24 year Army career(Department of Defense goal is 18% for males). The Army was chaptering people for being overweight who were in peak fitness--(a culture of form over substance in Army and Marine corps).

    The healthy category is as misleading and should probably be much broader range.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; May 1st, 2014 at 12:33 PM.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  26. #25  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Agree they are both crude measurements. Even at that however a lot of the ideas we have about body fat and BMI are rather dated and underestimate fat for optimum health.

    For example when we look at men and the chart below we find that optimum BMI of 27.5, averages 25% body fat. But when we look at the body fat chart posted in #23, we find the categories of "fit" and "healthy" well below this and therefore quite misleading. The fit category is badly misleading, using myself as an example I was borderline for about half the body fat test I took in the army--yet more often than not achieved max score in physical fitness test (and all but once got Presidential physical fitness badge), routinely did ten mile fun runs, a marathon and ultra marathon--I was NEVER below 20%body fat my entire 24 year Army career. The Army was chaptering people for being overweight who were in peak fitness--(a culture of form over substance in Army and Marine corps).

    The healthy category is as misleading and should probably be much broader range.
    You said to stick to science, and here you are basing it on personal experiences as well. Going back to the topic about fat and mortality rate, of course those who are NOT underweight have a lower mortality rate. To be honest, I do not see why people expected an improvement in health regarding hypertension, diabetes, cholesterol or blood glucose when losing weight. Losing weight does not equal getting healthier, this is more based on nutrition. I remember a study where it was shown that a calorie is a calorie, no matter if it came from an apple or frite.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  27. #26  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    You said to stick to science, and here you are basing it on personal experiences as well. Going back to the topic about fat and mortality rate, of course those who are NOT underweight have a lower mortality rate. To be honest, I do not see why people expected an improvement in health regarding hypertension, diabetes, cholesterol or blood glucose when losing weight. Losing weight does not equal getting healthier, this is more based on nutrition. I remember a study where it was shown that a calorie is a calorie, no matter if it came from an apple or frite.
    Science discussions do not preclude anecdotes which help illustrate points support by science--in fact such examples often help inform and deepen understanding. The body fat chart had misleading categories of "fit" and "healthy" I used myself and broader military standards to illustrate how this gets applied and isn't in accordance with what science tells us about fitness and health.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  28. #27  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    You said to stick to science, and here you are basing it on personal experiences as well. Going back to the topic about fat and mortality rate, of course those who are NOT underweight have a lower mortality rate. To be honest, I do not see why people expected an improvement in health regarding hypertension, diabetes, cholesterol or blood glucose when losing weight. Losing weight does not equal getting healthier, this is more based on nutrition. I remember a study where it was shown that a calorie is a calorie, no matter if it came from an apple or frite.
    Science discussions do not preclude anecdotes which help illustrate points support by science--in fact such examples often help inform and deepen understanding. The body fat chart had misleading categories of "fit" and "healthy" I used myself and broader military standards to illustrate how this gets applied and isn't in accordance with what science tells us about fitness and health.
    How does the differ from what I did, but needed to be told to stick to science?
    avec amour,
    RM
    Reply With Quote  
     

  29. #28  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    How does the differ from what I did, but needed to be told to stick to science?
    You tossed some numbers around but didn't seem to tie it to science or science findings. When you do so it makes clear that you are adding to the science-based argument you are bringing forth. You also should probably avoid unconditional statements such as "Being fat is never okay, just like being underweight is never okay either. " "fat is fat" etc. They distract from any serious science-based fact you are trying to introduce into the discussion.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  30. #29  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Yukon, Canada
    Posts
    4,054
    Sometimes an image speaks volumes.

    Reply With Quote  
     

  31. #30  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Sometimes an image speaks volumes.

    Also useful because it also shows the similar bias in vocabulary and color schemes, where the actual maximum health (27 BMI) flags as a yellow color. And clearly "normal" isn't really either a mean or median of most developed nation populations.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; May 1st, 2014 at 01:43 PM.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  32. #31  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    How does the differ from what I did, but needed to be told to stick to science?
    You tossed some numbers around but didn't seem to tie it to science or science findings. When you do so it makes clear that you are adding to the science-based argument you are bringing forth. You also should probably avoid unconditional statements such as "Being fat is never okay, just like being underweight is never okay either. " "fat is fat" etc. They distract from any serious science-based fact you are trying to introduce into the discussion.
    You also did the same, however your issue seems to be with my diction, which is okay.
    However, the latter statements were not data or anything made to ADD to the discussion, but rather express a personal opinion, which I hope is allowed on this board. I understand that this is a science forum, but would expect personal opinions to be expressed on a side note without them being taken as a basis to argue against or in favour of a discussion being taken place on that thread. Either way, I think that by now we have gone off topic and this back and forth expression of personal opinions is redundant.
    avec amour,
    RM
    Reply With Quote  
     

  33. #32  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Sometimes an image speaks volumes.

    Here are two links to visualise a BMI:
    http://www.modelmydiet.com
    Body Mass Index Visualizer
    scheherazade likes this.
    avec amour,
    RM
    Reply With Quote  
     

  34. #33  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Yukon, Canada
    Posts
    4,054
    Great visualization aids, rmbettencourt.

    Thank you for the links.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  35. #34  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Here are two links to visualise a BMI:
    http://www.modelmydiet.com
    Body Mass Index Visualizer
    Useful tool. You'll also note it shares misleading color scheme as well, showing those overwieght as yellow (bad) rather than a more accurate depiction from a number of studies which suggest " And while obese people had a greater mortality risk over all, those at the lowest obesity level (B.M.I. of 30 to 34.9) were not more likely to die than normal-weight people."
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/02/health/study-suggests-lower-death-risk-for-the-overweight.html


    More accurately the caution yellow should probably start at about BMI 30.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  36. #35  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Here are two links to visualise a BMI:
    http://www.modelmydiet.com
    Body Mass Index Visualizer
    Useful tool. You'll also note it shares misleading color scheme as well, showing those overwieght as yellow (bad) rather than a more accurate depiction from a number of studies which suggest " And while obese people had a greater mortality risk over all, those at the lowest obesity level (B.M.I. of 30 to 34.9) were not more likely to die than normal-weight people."
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/02/health/study-suggests-lower-death-risk-for-the-overweight.html


    More accurately the caution yellow should probably start at about BMI 30.
    “Body mass index is an imperfect measure of the risk of mortality,” and factors like blood pressure, cholesterol and blood sugar must be considered, said Dr. Samuel Klein, director of the Center for Human Nutrition at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis.
    No chart will EVER depict or show perfect or near perfect results or "colour schemes" for what you seem to asking. However recent studies have also suggested that BMI is no longer a great tool to determine health.
    Body Fat Measurement vs. Body Mass Index – A Comparison | HealthStatus - How is your health?
    avec amour,
    RM
    Reply With Quote  
     

  37. #36  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    No chart will EVER depict or show perfect or near perfect results or "colour schemes" for what you seem to asking. However recent studies have also suggested that BMI is no longer a great tool to determine health.
    Body Fat Measurement vs. Body Mass Index – A Comparison | HealthStatus - How is your health?
    It doesn't really matter which we use since the medical guidance shown in most of the current charts in either case to be missing the optimum health levels, which should range higher according the recent studies. Optimum BMI appears to be about 27% and Body fat in males about 25%--which by most obsolete charts are shown as overweight and a reason for concern when they shouldn't be.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  38. #37  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    No chart will EVER depict or show perfect or near perfect results or "colour schemes" for what you seem to asking. However recent studies have also suggested that BMI is no longer a great tool to determine health.
    Body Fat Measurement vs. Body Mass Index – A Comparison | HealthStatus - How is your health?
    It doesn't really matter which we use since the medical guidance shown in most of the current charts in either case to be missing the optimum health levels, which should range higher according the recent studies. Optimum BMI appears to be about 27% and Body fat in males about 25%--which by most obsolete charts are shown as overweight and a reason for concern when they shouldn't be.
    Is this based on a personal opinion?
    avec amour,
    RM
    Reply With Quote  
     

  39. #38  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Is this based on a personal opinion?
    When I bother to post links and charts from studies please look at them. Look at the post below from another recent study and the comparison between BMI and % body fat for males (post 24). My simple point is there's no reason to consider someone overweight if they are in fact at the healthiest BMI or body fat %. Fortunately many doctors are probably more up to date on this research than the old charts that hang in their waiting rooms, or web sites their customers might go to.


    Cell Biology Promotion
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  40. #39  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Is this based on a personal opinion?
    When I bother to post links and charts from studies please look at them. Look at the post below from another recent study and the comparison between BMI and % body fat for males.


    Cell Biology Promotion
    Why does it seem like you are repeating yourself over and over again. Have I not been clear about agreeing that the mortality of the normal to overweight people is lower than those who are underweight? Also, have I not also expressed the "accuracy" of these charts we seem to be throwing around. There are many studies showing various things and there will forever be studies arguing the accuracy or information of another study. However, you seem to want to defend your current situation with studies and charts. I have no interest in the study of comparison between BMI and body fat percentage in males. My opinion is not going to change, here is a piece of information that will help you better understand MY personal situation. I have suffered from anorexia since I was 5 years old, was diagnosed with anorexia nervosa, restrictive subtype two years later. I am open to accepting new studies and have appreciated your charts and links, however you seem to argue other charts and links on the basis that they represent misleading depictions of weight and healthy weight standards. Of course, I can dispute your opinions based on a study you read with my opinion based on another study I read. Like I said, this all seems a little redundant at this point. We are just going back and forth rebutting the same material. At this point I feel like you are just trolling me.
    avec amour,
    RM
    Reply With Quote  
     

  41. #40  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Yukon, Canada
    Posts
    4,054
    Alright, you two. You've convinced me. I had a small glass of red wine AND a small piece of chocolate. Graveyard shift pending in a few hours so it's time for a nap.

    Laters...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  42. #41  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Why does it seem like you are repeating yourself over and over again.
    Because you keep asking me, "Is this based on a personal opinion?" as if to infer there's no science behind it--it's particularly annoying when there's already been evidence presented.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  43. #42  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Why does it seem like you are repeating yourself over and over again.
    Because you keep asking me, "Is this based on a personal opinion?" as if to infer there's no science behind it--it's particularly annoying when there's already been evidence presented.
    No, that is not true. I implied it, you then inferred it. Anyhow, I only asked that once after noticing you seem to be repeating yourself in contesting what I post. As if you felt that no other study but yours is wholly accurate, kind of like those religious people who claim that only theirs is the true one. However, I never claimed that the charts or tools I provided were the right representation of healthy BMI, etc.. In any case, I digress once more, I have made my point on several occasions about the redundancy of this ongoing "debate".
    avec amour,
    RM
    Reply With Quote  
     

  44. #43  
    Forum Ph.D. stander-j's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    854
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Fat is the new thin. Get used to it, but if like me you are skinny take great delight in picking up the pace when jogging past obese people (schadenfreude).
    BBC News - Overweight seen as the norm, says chief medical officer
    Fat will NEVER be the new thin. I highly resent that, even the concept in jest.
    Well... Thin is the new fat - a portly figure used to be an indicator of perceived good health, or at the very least enough wealth to not go hungry. Not saying time have changed, because they have - but that doesn't mean they can't change again. To some extent, full figured women have experienced a resurgence in perceived beauty/desirability - in part thanks to shows such as Mad Men, which have promoted the desirability of women with the hourglass shape.

    The point is that "beauty" and "sexy" are subjective terms. They're relative to the eye of the beholder. As culture changes, so do the influences that affect what is typically seen as beautiful and/or desirable.
    "Cultivated leisure is the aim of man."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  45. #44  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,046
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Our culture idolizes an unrealistic body image by-and-large.
    Beauty is not about practicality. In many ways, it is about defying practicality.

    Society usually doesn't idealize something if it isn't rare or difficult to achieve. Idealizing a realistic body image would be like idealizing lead instead of gold. It would seem to make us happier, because lead is much more common that gold, but it also defeats the whole purpose.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  46. #45  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by stander-j View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Fat is the new thin. Get used to it, but if like me you are skinny take great delight in picking up the pace when jogging past obese people (schadenfreude).
    BBC News - Overweight seen as the norm, says chief medical officer
    Fat will NEVER be the new thin. I highly resent that, even the concept in jest.
    Well... Thin is the new fat - a portly figure used to be an indicator of perceived good health, or at the very least enough wealth to not go hungry. Not saying time have changed, because they have - but that doesn't mean they can't change again. To some extent, full figured women have experienced a resurgence in perceived beauty/desirability - in part thanks to shows such as Mad Men, which have promoted the desirability of women with the hourglass shape.

    The point is that "beauty" and "sexy" are subjective terms. They're relative to the eye of the beholder. As culture changes, so do the influences that affect what is typically seen as beautiful and/or desirable.
    I still resent that. In MY PERSONAL opinion it will never be the new thin. Yes, I am aware that they are subjective terms and they are based on personal opinions as well. I mean not every person like thin people.
    avec amour,
    RM
    Reply With Quote  
     

  47. #46  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Why does it seem like you are repeating yourself over and over again.
    Because you keep asking me, "Is this based on a personal opinion?" as if to infer there's no science behind it--it's particularly annoying when there's already been evidence presented.
    No, that is not true. I implied it, you then inferred it. Anyhow, I only asked that once after noticing you seem to be repeating yourself in contesting what I post. As if you felt that no other study but yours is wholly accurate, kind of like those religious people who claim that only theirs is the true one.
    It's not one study. I've posted two already. If that doesn't satisfy here's yet one more, this time a meta study of 32 studies that found the same things...our information about healthy BMI and body fat are largely erroneous, and should be updated to reflect actual mortality rates rather than cautioning people to maintain weights that are infact below their optimum. It's a good read and covers the history and how the medical community has tried to deal with the confounding factors. It was amusingly titled: "Beautiful Hypotheses and Ugly Facts: The BMI-Mortality Association" The next time you see a chart that shows healthy as below optimum and the optimum amount of fat as "overweight" please bring it to the attention of your doctor.

    "The conclusions are clear. In the
    studies providing the most comprehensive data (1.4 million
    subjects) the relation of BMI to mortality was U-shaped in
    both men and women; mortality was high in the very lean
    and the very fat. The nadir of the curves (the BMI at lowest
    mortality) occurred at values of about 26 and 25 kg/m2 for
    men and women 50 years of age"
    Beautiful Hypotheses and Ugly Facts: The BMI-Mortality Association - Andres - 2012 - Obesity Research - Wiley Online Library
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  48. #47  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,046
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    The nadir of the curves (the BMI at lowest
    mortality) occurred at values of about 26 and 25 kg/m2 for
    men and women 50 years of age"
    Beautiful Hypotheses and Ugly Facts: The BMI-Mortality Association - Andres - 2012 - Obesity Research - Wiley Online Library
    BMI of 25 is just barely into the "overweight" category.

    BMI Calculator | Apidra(R) (insulin glulisine [rDNA origin] injection)

    However, there are some confounding variables in all of this. 25 BMI doesn't seem like a value that you would be driven toward by other conditions. Usually bad health conditions either drive you to be very skinny or very fat or have no effect at all. So the question is: is the weight causing the bad health, or is the bad health causing the weight?


    For example, Meth addicts tend to be very skinny. That means the low BMI group has a lot more meth addicts. They are an extreme risk, enough so that it wouldn't take very many of them to bring down the average for the whole group.
    Last edited by kojax; May 2nd, 2014 at 02:37 AM.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  49. #48  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    BMI of 25 is just barely into the "overweight" category.

    Yes, but under the antiquated charts (and online calculators) that are still being used it shouldn't be considered overweight. In fact 30 BMI is about as healthy as 20 BMI and that is probably the "healthy" range most people should shoot for and get advised to stay within by their doctors.

    --
    I doubt meth is effecting things by much, but heavy smoking, which is far more common probably a strong confounding factor in the lower figures--yet even controlling for these it seems to be that extremely thin people are at risk, particularly as they get older.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  50. #49  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,843
    I have also come across a study that showed that, within the BMI range of 20 to 32, fitness was a much greater predictor of longevity than weight.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  51. #50  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,408
    Which is worse, morbid obesity or extreme anorexia?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  52. #51  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,843
    Anorexia, if extreme, is worse, since it leads to death very quickly. Morbid obesity is not nice. But it gives people a chance to fix themselves, since death comes slowly.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  53. #52  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,631
    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    Anorexia, if extreme, is worse, since it leads to death very quickly. Morbid obesity is not nice. But it gives people a chance to fix themselves, since death comes slowly.
    Wow.. Pretty quick to answer this. While anorexia nervosa is a psychological condition, morbid obesity is usually a result of another psychological condition, and not the condition itself. This makes it impossible to compare these two afflictions.

    To me it is like comparing a wrench to a boat on how well they float.
    dan hunter and rmbettencourt like this.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
    Reply With Quote  
     

  54. #53  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Why does it seem like you are repeating yourself over and over again.
    Because you keep asking me, "Is this based on a personal opinion?" as if to infer there's no science behind it--it's particularly annoying when there's already been evidence presented.
    No, that is not true. I implied it, you then inferred it. Anyhow, I only asked that once after noticing you seem to be repeating yourself in contesting what I post. As if you felt that no other study but yours is wholly accurate, kind of like those religious people who claim that only theirs is the true one.
    It's not one study. I've posted two already. If that doesn't satisfy here's yet one more, this time a meta study of 32 studies that found the same things...our information about healthy BMI and body fat are largely erroneous, and should be updated to reflect actual mortality rates rather than cautioning people to maintain weights that are infact below their optimum. It's a good read and covers the history and how the medical community has tried to deal with the confounding factors. It was amusingly titled: "Beautiful Hypotheses and Ugly Facts: The BMI-Mortality Association" The next time you see a chart that shows healthy as below optimum and the optimum amount of fat as "overweight" please bring it to the attention of your doctor.

    "The conclusions are clear. In the
    studies providing the most comprehensive data (1.4 million
    subjects) the relation of BMI to mortality was U-shaped in
    both men and women; mortality was high in the very lean
    and the very fat. The nadir of the curves (the BMI at lowest
    mortality) occurred at values of about 26 and 25 kg/m2 for
    men and women 50 years of age"
    Beautiful Hypotheses and Ugly Facts: The BMI-Mortality Association - Andres - 2012 - Obesity Research - Wiley Online Library
    How many times must I say that I never claimed any chart, tool, data or any variant of, was 100% accurate and true. I have sound countless times that there is no such chart that will ever tell you how fit or unfit you are. I personally do not even care care about how healthy someone else should be. As I have stated before, my view on beauty, healthy, fat, skinny, they are all distorted in my brain. I have only asked if certain comments of yours were based on personal opinion because they came across that way, not because I had the minimum interest in obtaining an accurate chart or basis for health. I assume all charts are erroneous to begin with.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  55. #54  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    Anorexia, if extreme, is worse, since it leads to death very quickly. Morbid obesity is not nice. But it gives people a chance to fix themselves, since death comes slowly.
    This is actually not true. There have been cases where people have lived with severe anorexia for decades. In any case, both are equally dangerous and fatal. Sufferers of extreme anorexia have an equal chance of "recovering" as those who are morbidly obese. Anorexia can sometimes be a slow death.
    P.S. I PERSONALLY do not believe in recovery.
    avec amour,
    RM
    Reply With Quote  
     

  56. #55  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,148
    "discovered that simply being labelled as 'fat' when younger dramatically increases risk of obesity"
    I dont have the time or interest, but if I did, I sure would look into this study's methodology because there are potential elephant in the room correlation factors to be filtered out.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  57. #56  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,631
    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo View Post
    "discovered that simply being labelled as 'fat' when younger dramatically increases risk of obesity"
    I dont have the time or interest, but if I did, I sure would look into this study's methodology because there are potential elephant in the room correlation factors to be filtered out.
    A possible reason for this could be a lowered self esteem which on turn increases the chance of a person being overweight later. This is very probable. However, usually fat people are called fat, and fat people tend to be fat later in life as well.

    There is no real way of testing this, unless you want to intentionally discriminate a group of people, and then see if they gain weight.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
    Reply With Quote  
     

  58. #57  
    Moderator Moderator Janus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    2,070
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Here's the odd thing, If I go to that link, enter my age, height and weight, and then compare the image given for my calculated BMI to what I look like, they are not a close match. I have to move the slider down 10-15lbs to get close to what my actual body shape is.
    "Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
    The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone


    Edit/Delete Message
    Reply With Quote  
     

  59. #58  
    Goddess of Eternity rmbettencourt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Beverly Hills
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Janus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Here's the odd thing, If I go to that link, enter my age, height and weight, and then compare the image given for my calculated BMI to what I look like, they are not a close match. I have to move the slider down 10-15lbs to get close to what my actual body shape is.
    Same for me
    avec amour,
    RM
    Reply With Quote  
     

  60. #59  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,046
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo View Post
    "discovered that simply being labelled as 'fat' when younger dramatically increases risk of obesity"
    I dont have the time or interest, but if I did, I sure would look into this study's methodology because there are potential elephant in the room correlation factors to be filtered out.
    A possible reason for this could be a lowered self esteem which on turn increases the chance of a person being overweight later. This is very probable. However, usually fat people are called fat, and fat people tend to be fat later in life as well.

    There is no real way of testing this, unless you want to intentionally discriminate a group of people, and then see if they gain weight.
    I love the choice of language "Elephant in the Room" on a thread about obesity.

    However I notice in general that people tend to move toward whatever body type they are told they have. Even among adult women. Tell a woman she's fat and she'll gain weight more likely than lose it. Once beauty doesn't appear to be an achievable goal, people often give up on it and focus on other things.

    If you tell the same woman she's pretty, she'll want to get more compliments, so she'll do things to make it more true. Each incremental loss of even 1 pound has an immediate return because she believes she's already beautiful and that losing that pound only made her more beautify.

    But if she's "fat" right now, then she knows she's going to have to lose a lot of pounds before she can begin to take pride in her form.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  61. #60  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,843
    Sign in to read: Survival of the fattest: Why we're wrong about obesity - health - 05 May 2014 - New Scientist

    The reference above will not be accessible by anyone who does not subscribe to New Scientist. But let me summarise its main points.

    1. Obesity in the USA has plateaued. 34% of adults and adolescents are obese, and that is not increasing.
    2. A Swedish study published in 2012 covering 64,000 heart patients showed that overweight or slightly obese people with heart disease were more likely to live a long time than normal weight people with the same heart disease.. Underweight people in the same study had a 3 fold increase in risk of death.
    3. A study by a Dr. Flegal covering 1.8 million people showed that overweight to slightly obese people had less risk of dying than normal weight people from all causes.

    Note, though, that this does not apply to very obese people.

    Overweight people who are physically fit are just as healthy, or more so, than normal weight people who are equally fit. This really removes any health reason for losing weight unless you are seriously obese. If you are overweight, the best advice is to exercise for fitness, but not to try to lose weight.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  62. #61  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6
    I think that the pendulum on ‘fat acceptance’ has swung a different way to the point where some people are glamorizing or even calling for the acceptance or promotion of obesity rather than carrying a ‘few extra pounds’. I firmly believe we have to be very careful in making the distinction between the two because otherwise we will have generation of serious health issues in the immediate future.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  63. #62  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,843
    To Barry.
    Maybe, but as I pointed out earlier, in the USA, the level of obesity has plateaued. It is no longer increasing.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  64. #63  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    I'm short for my weight.
    I'm going to have to remember that one.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  65. #64  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    940
    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    Overweight people who are physically fit are just as healthy, or more so, than normal weight people who are equally fit. This really removes any health reason for losing weight unless you are seriously obese. If you are overweight, the best advice is to exercise for fitness, but not to try to lose weight.
    there you go. just the advice that Americans are looking for. fat is good. right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  66. #65  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    Overweight people who are physically fit are just as healthy, or more so, than normal weight people who are equally fit. This really removes any health reason for losing weight unless you are seriously obese. If you are overweight, the best advice is to exercise for fitness, but not to try to lose weight.
    there you go. just the advice that Americans are looking for. fat is good. right.
    Actually that would depend on what type of fat you are talking about, see the link below.

    Brown Fat Revolution Diet Review
    Reply With Quote  
     

  67. #66  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    940
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    Overweight people who are physically fit are just as healthy, or more so, than normal weight people who are equally fit. This really removes any health reason for losing weight unless you are seriously obese. If you are overweight, the best advice is to exercise for fitness, but not to try to lose weight.
    there you go. just the advice that Americans are looking for. fat is good. right.
    Actually that would depend on what type of fat you are talking about, see the link below.

    Brown Fat Revolution Diet Review
    the fat i am talking about is the fat i see on a large percentage of Americans, of all ages. wait till all these fat people get old. we will see how well they get along with their diabetes and back and leg problems.

    [i guess it is obvious. i do not have much tolerance for fat people (a choice) -- i see them killing themselves or making their lives miserable. now, given what i just said, i would never deride a fat person unless they got in my face. i am a 'live and let live' kind of person. after all, i have a fat person or two in my extended family.]
    Last edited by Chucknorium; May 7th, 2014 at 09:16 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  68. #67  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    Overweight people who are physically fit are just as healthy, or more so, than normal weight people who are equally fit. This really removes any health reason for losing weight unless you are seriously obese. If you are overweight, the best advice is to exercise for fitness, but not to try to lose weight.
    there you go. just the advice that Americans are looking for. fat is good. right.
    Actually that would depend on what type of fat you are talking about, see the link below.

    Brown Fat Revolution Diet Review
    the fat i am talking about is the fat i see on a large percentage of Americans, of all ages. wait till all these fat people get old. we will see how well they get along with their diabetes and back and leg problems.

    [i guess it is obvious. i do not have much tolerance for fat people (a choice) -- i see them killing themselves or making their lives miserable. now, given what i just said, i would never deride a fat person unless they got in my face. i am a 'live and let live' kind of person. after all, i have a fat person or two in my extended family.]
    Are you talking obese fat people? Yes that's bad, but being a little overweight is not bad. I just read an article that said when people get older, being a little overweight but not obese actually live longer than skinny people. I get the feeling you are not very old yet. Let me tell you, it gets harder to lose weight when you get older. You have to work very hard to maintain an active lifestyle, and some days stuff just hurts so your not so active. I favor skeptic's idea of eating a good diet and staying fit and let the fat find it's own level.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  69. #68  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    940
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Are you talking obese fat people? Yes that's bad, but being a little overweight is not bad. I just read an article that said when people get older, being a little overweight but not obese actually live longer than skinny people. I get the feeling you are not very old yet. Let me tell you, it gets harder to lose weight when you get older. You have to work very hard to maintain an active lifestyle, and some days stuff just hurts so your not so active. I favor skeptic's idea of eating a good diet and staying fit and let the fat find it's own level.
    yes, i am pretty young i guess. sorry about my lack of empathy sometimes. i will try to do better.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  70. #69  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Are you talking obese fat people? Yes that's bad, but being a little overweight is not bad. I just read an article that said when people get older, being a little overweight but not obese actually live longer than skinny people. I get the feeling you are not very old yet. Let me tell you, it gets harder to lose weight when you get older. You have to work very hard to maintain an active lifestyle, and some days stuff just hurts so your not so active. I favor skeptic's idea of eating a good diet and staying fit and let the fat find it's own level.
    yes, i am pretty young i guess. sorry about my lack of empathy sometimes. i will try to do better.
    No problem as I can relate to your attitude, but things do change with age.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  71. #70  
    Forum Ph.D. Raziell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    928
    Someone needs to call me a fatty then. Im only 70kgs wich is low for being a 184cm tall male. I desperately try to gain weight/mass, but nomatter how much I eat I can barely get gains. Being fat is a luxury problem. Trying to gain weight being naturally slender? A nightmare.
    A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it. - David Stevens
    Reply With Quote  
     

  72. #71  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by Raziell View Post
    Someone needs to call me a fatty then. Im only 70kgs wich is low for being a 184cm tall male. I desperately try to gain weight/mass, but nomatter how much I eat I can barely get gains. Being fat is a luxury problem. Trying to gain weight being naturally slender? A nightmare.
    We should have your problem then.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  73. #72  
    Forum Ph.D. Raziell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    928
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Raziell View Post
    Someone needs to call me a fatty then. Im only 70kgs wich is low for being a 184cm tall male. I desperately try to gain weight/mass, but nomatter how much I eat I can barely get gains. Being fat is a luxury problem. Trying to gain weight being naturally slender? A nightmare.
    We should have your problem then.
    Doctors should allow fat transfer as with blood transfer, you could take liposuction straight into me if you want
    A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it. - David Stevens
    Reply With Quote  
     

  74. #73  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,843
    On losing weight.

    I have discussed this before in other threads, so beg apology to those who have read this in my other posts.

    It is easy to tell people to lose weight, and it is, in fact, easy to lose weight. It only takes a month of food discipline. However, what is difficult to the point of impossibility for most people is to keep that weight off!

    Studies have shown that only 5% of people who set out to lose weight will weigh less 5 years later. 60% will weigh more than they otherwise would. In other words, the attempt to lose weight actually harms most of those people who try to do it. What is even worse is the result of continued efforts to lose weight wherre they end up in a yo yo weight gain/loss cycle. This causes damage to the heart.

    So my earlier advice needs repeating. Do not, and I repeat, do not, attempt to lose weight. Instead, take control of your diet and make sure you eat good quality, balanced food with plenty of fruit and vegetables, and do enough exercise to stay fit.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  75. #74  
    ox
    ox is offline
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    881
    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    So my earlier advice needs repeating. Do not, and I repeat, do not, attempt to lose weight. Instead, take control of your diet and make sure you eat good quality, balanced food with plenty of fruit and vegetables, and do enough exercise to stay fit.
    And I still stand by my earlier assertions about reducing weight. It does need radical action and the only way to do this is by drastically reducing the amount you eat if you are overweight. Discipline is what is required. Exercise will not take weight off you. It may even encourage you to eat more.
    My BMI is 22 - pretty good, so I think I must know something about this. Food is far too easy to obtain these days, but that shouldn't stop you from treating it as a scarce resource. Go for small portions, not large ones
    One glimmer of hope is that employers are at last starting to take the health of their employees seriously. I remember when I used to be given black looks by my boss for going outside for a walk at lunchtime. I was expected to remain in my seat and stay working like most of the others, who only ever got up for a comfort break. I knew that was wrong.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  76. #75  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,843
    Ox

    No one denies that losing weight is easy, as I have said before. It is keeping it off that is difficult, and it is at this that 95% of the people who try to lose weight fail. And you need to realise that losing weight and putting it back on again, as 95% of those who try will end up doing, is far, far less healthy than simply staying at the same high weight level.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  77. #76  
    Forum Bachelors Degree One beer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    442
    I have a question: Why is it so "unacceptable" to call fat women 'fat' or make any comment about them being fat?? (I don't mean to their faces, that might be rude).

    Being fat is an easily reversible condition is it not? - just eat fewer calories? Yet interestingly if I make a comment about a fat bloke, nothing is said, but if I should ever *dare* to make a similar comment about a fat women, it is as if I have committed a deadly sin, and even normal size females cringe. Why is this?

    OB
    scheherazade likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  78. #77  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Yukon, Canada
    Posts
    4,054
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    I have a question: Why is it so "unacceptable" to call fat women 'fat' or make any comment about them being fat?? (I don't mean to their faces, that might be rude).

    Being fat is an easily reversible condition is it not? - just eat fewer calories? Yet interestingly if I make a comment about a fat bloke, nothing is said, but if I should ever *dare* to make a similar comment about a fat women, it is as if I have committed a deadly sin, and even normal size females cringe. Why is this?

    OB
    The society in which I have been raised teaches that we should treat other people in the manner to which we would care to be treated ourselves. Criticism, if and when given, should be of a constructive nature and only ventured by those who have earned the right to proffer such advice.

    We are all entitled to our opinion on virtually any topic but when we voice our opinions we will be assessed by others for those remarks.

    Women are very sensitive about criticisms of their weight, largely because our society has quite an unrealistic expectation of the female body image. While one might joke around in the locker room about tying a 2 x 4 across your butt so that you won't fall in, society in general does not condone criticism of the individual in areas where genetics, income and a host of variables that may be beyond one's control come into play.
    Raziell likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  79. #78  
    Forum Bachelors Degree One beer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    442
    OK, sure, obviously we should not be rude or insensitive to anyone, and I would never be that, but a fat guy is seen as a "bloater", or "who ate all the pies?" or "who's got a beer gut?", and it is all a bit of a joke, and in most cases you can say that to his face, but I genuinely do not understand why one cannot say the same about women?

    I mean if I offer my seat on the tube/subway to a woman who looks pregnant, but she is actually just fat, why does she look daggers at me? Is it really my fault?

    OB


    PS: Weight is irrelevant; I am talking about size, and talk about 'not falling in' is a completely different subject and nothing to do with body size!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  80. #79  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Yukon, Canada
    Posts
    4,054
    Offering one's seat is an act of chivalry and there are those females who see this as demeaning. The radically extreme feminist movement is beyond my ability to comprehend.

    I f you do not appreciate why females find conversation related to their weight offensive, may I hazard a guess that you might be single?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  81. #80  
    Forum Bachelors Degree One beer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    442
    Ah, OK, and yes, I can see your logic, but actually I am VERY happily married !!

    OB

    (but still confused!)

    Seriously, I really need to know why this is such a no-go area for women. If I get fat, then I know that I just need to back off from the calories - as I have done in the last 3 weeks - yet all my hints to my dearest seem to fall on deaf ears. Honestly, why is this? (Her stomach is now larger than her bust, which quite apart from the aesthetics, is not a very healthy situation for her internal organs).
    Last edited by One beer; May 8th, 2014 at 05:09 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  82. #81  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Yukon, Canada
    Posts
    4,054
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    No, I am VERY happily married !!

    OB

    (but still confused)

    Delighted for you, lol...

    Perhaps your wife can explain it to you or maybe it is a cultural thing. In some cultures, having a hefty wife would be a credit to one's ability to provide.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  83. #82  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    4,211
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Offering one's seat is an act of chivalry and there are those females who see this as demeaning. The radically extreme feminist movement is beyond my ability to comprehend.

    I f you do not appreciate why females find conversation related to their weight offensive, may I hazard a guess that you might be single?
    While at university in chicago(late 70s), I rode the commuter trains regularly. One day, a woman with packages got on, so I offered her my seat. She went crazy, demanding if I thought she was an invalid, or needed my seat---at the next stop, an old man got on, and i offered him my seat. Thank you" he said as he settled down. 2 stops later, I got off and waited for the next train as the crazy woman was still verbally assaulting me.
    Blame it on my mom who wanted to raise gentlemen, and expected me to open doors for her.

    ................
    back to fat
    35 years I've been living with my spouse, and not one single time has she allowed me to read the scale while she is on it.
    Last edited by sculptor; May 8th, 2014 at 05:25 PM.
    scheherazade likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  84. #83  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Yukon, Canada
    Posts
    4,054
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Offering one's seat is an act of chivalry and there are those females who see this as demeaning. The radically extreme feminist movement is beyond my ability to comprehend.

    I f you do not appreciate why females find conversation related to their weight offensive, may I hazard a guess that you might be single?
    While at university in chicago(late 70s), I rode the commuter trains regularly. One day, a woman with packages got on, so I offered her my seat. She went crazy, demanding if I thought she was an invalid, or needed my seat---at the next stop, an old man got on, and i offered him my seat. Thank you" he said as he settled down. 2 stops later, I got off and waited for the next train as the crazy woman was still verbally assaulting me.
    Blame it on my mom who wanted to raise gentlemen, and expected me to open doors for her.
    Like I said earlier...radical feminists who cannot accept that a common courtesy need not be a gender issue. I hold doors for all persons of all ages and all genders, thin or fat. Must keep this thread on track.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  85. #84  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,843
    To One beer

    It is related to appearance. The importance placed on this by women is enormous. Guys can be unattractive physically and still attract a suitable female partner, due to being funny, or being a leader, or having money, or being a doctor, or any number of other ways. But a woman who is ugly will not. This has been the case throughout our evolution, and society has evolved values in accordance. The value for a woman is to look good. Being fat does not look good. In other words, for a woman, being fat is the same as being ugly. You would not call anyone, male or female, ugly. So do not call a woman fat.
    scheherazade likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  86. #85  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    I'm still not clear on what you mean by fat people, so when I think of fat people it's like the pictures below.











    Reply With Quote  
     

  87. #86  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    940
    Bad Robot! Bad Robot! That's just wrong! Bad, Bad Robot!
    sculptor likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  88. #87  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    940
    ok Bad Robot! see if you can handle this. i see your fat and raise you 50 tons (plus assorted weirdness):

    http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/photos/
    Bad Robot likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  89. #88  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Bad Robot! Bad Robot! That's just wrong! Bad, Bad Robot!
    Keep it up and I'll start calling you babe.

    But I have done picture threads about Wallmart people before.

    people of walmart - Bing Images
    Reply With Quote  
     

  90. #89  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    940
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Keep it up and I'll start calling you babe.
    babe likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  91. #90  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    940



    Bad Robot, One beer and babe like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  92. #91  
    Forum Bachelors Degree One beer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    442
    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    To One beer

    It is related to appearance. The importance placed on this by women is enormous. Guys can be unattractive physically and still attract a suitable female partner, due to being funny, or being a leader, or having money, or being a doctor, or any number of other ways. But a woman who is ugly will not. This has been the case throughout our evolution, and society has evolved values in accordance. The value for a woman is to look good. Being fat does not look good. In other words, for a woman, being fat is the same as being ugly. You would not call anyone, male or female, ugly. So do not call a woman fat.
    Hi skeptic, yeah, I totally understand that, but my point is that being fat is so easy to change - just eat less. Whereas if one is ugly, that is nearly impossible to change. So you should never call a person ugly because they can't do much about it, but anyone can do plenty about being fat, so why is it such a taboo to mention it and particularly to women? That's what I don't understand.

    Bad Robot, those guys are morbidly obese!, I am talking fat. But in either case why is society not allowed to make reference to it, as if they were disabled or something?

    My wife is slightly fat but I really want her to do something about it because fat on the belly is very unhealthy for the internal organs. However, I dare not mention it because of the problems it would cause.

    OB
    Bad Robot likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  93. #92  
    Forum Bachelors Degree One beer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    442
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    No, I am VERY happily married !!

    OB

    (but still confused)

    Delighted for you, lol...

    Perhaps your wife can explain it to you or maybe it is a cultural thing. In some cultures, having a hefty wife would be a credit to one's ability to provide.

    Thanks, but see my post above.....

    OB
    Reply With Quote  
     

  94. #93  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Yukon, Canada
    Posts
    4,054
    I am starting to understand your apprehension around the topic of excess weight as it is pertains to women now, One Beer, specifically to your loved one.

    Weight gain happens much more easily for many women as a result of hormonal changes experienced during mid-life, less physical activity, perhaps a change in cooking habits etc. Have there been any other changes in your lives of late?

    The safest way to approach your wife would certainly be as as expression of concern for her health rather than one of aesthetics, in my opinion, and if you are aware of any unhealthy eating habits, then it could be yourself to take the lead in suggesting a preference for healthier alternatives or smaller portions.

    Walking is a very healthy and low impact activity. Perhaps you could start the ball rolling by going for walks with your wife? Hopefully she also has a good physician who will encourage her to be mindful of weight gain as it is much easier to address the matter of fitness before one gets too much out of shape.

    A delicate matter to address indeed. Good luck with that, One Beer.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  95. #94  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    4,211
    like this?

    Reply With Quote  
     

  96. #95  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    My wife is slightly fat but I really want her to do something about it because fat on the belly is very unhealthy for the internal organs. However, I dare not mention it because of the problems it would cause.

    OB
    Buy a his & hers fitness monitors (I like Fitbit), but shop around. You wear them all the time and they break up the readings daily or by the day. You get a USB plug that allows your computer to communicate with them and generate reports for you. The point is once you start getting feed back about your activity levels, you can make choices to start increasing your activity. After wearing your monitor for a few weeks, you get a baseline on your normal activity. Then it's almost second nature to start increasing your activity. You set goals and before you know it you have a new higher baseline to work with.

    I just do it by myself and it's making a big difference to me personally, but I can just imagine how much better it would work if I had someone to compete with.

    Anyway good luck with whatever choices you make.
    scheherazade likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  97. #96  
    Forum Bachelors Degree One beer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    442
    Good idea, BR thank you. I now have an idea for a birthday present, (although that could be a minefield in itself!)

    Scheherazade, thanks I have tried everything you suggest, we walk, cycle and eat healthily, but I will redouble my efforts.

    Sculptor, Yikes !! no nothing like that !!!

    OB
    Reply With Quote  
     

  98. #97  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    4,211
    <---------- bmi of 25.5
    and, i'm fat(down 10 lbs from my max weight)
    one of those unlucky few who store all fat on my belly
    So, i monitor my weight, and belly

    a little extra weight is a good thing-----the balance is the thing-- feast and fast
    Reply With Quote  
     

  99. #98  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Good idea, BR thank you. I now have an idea for a birthday present, (although that could be a minefield in itself!)

    Scheherazade, thanks I have tried everything you suggest, we walk, cycle and eat healthily, but I will redouble my efforts.

    Sculptor, Yikes !! no nothing like that !!!

    OB
    You entered the minefield when you got married. At least with the fitness monitors you can keep the focus about health and fitness and stay away from the fat subject altogether. I take it you are more fit than your wife. So you will need to encourage your wife to catch up to your level with a lot of praise and comments about how good she's looking.

    I'm not saying you need this, but I've been married twice and do know how it can get. Nothing tells her how attractive she is like a spontaneous hard-on. If that doesn't happen very often, get a prescription of little blue pills and keep them hidden from her and use them when they will do the most good for her.

    After thought (Don't ever let her find them) or things might get more dicey for you.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  100. #99  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    940
    Bad Robot likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  101. #100  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Raziell and Dave Wilson like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Can a human really get this fat?
    By Bad Robot in forum Health & Medicine
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: August 24th, 2013, 01:47 AM
  2. how fat do get burned?
    By adikboy in forum Biology
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: November 7th, 2012, 05:04 PM
  3. Why I am not fat?
    By Demonize in forum Health & Medicine
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: February 24th, 2011, 07:43 AM
  4. Carbohydrates changes to fat
    By Deividas in forum Biology
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: July 17th, 2009, 05:38 PM
  5. fat
    By AlexP in forum Biology
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: August 10th, 2006, 09:10 AM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •