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Thread: Being fat is OK.

  1. #101  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    <---------- bmi of 25.5
    and, i'm fat(down 10 lbs from my max weight)
    one of those unlucky few who store all fat on my belly
    So, i monitor my weight, and belly

    a little extra weight is a good thing-----the balance is the thing-- feast and fast
    I'm thinking posting that bit of stone art wasn't a good idea. Anyway I know the feeling.

    Oops! Sorry wrong thread, I think Lynx_Fox was a bit overly harsh on you and could have handled his problem with you differently. To me when someone has been a good contributor to the forum, the moderators should cut you a little more slack before suspending you.
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    Does your wife take any medications, OB? Some of those contribute to weight gain. Is it perhaps a genetic influence?

    Does she worry when you are away? Worry also predisposes one to weight gain.

    Another thought, does she eat as healthy when you are absent or is she given to snacking? Snacks and juice can decimate an otherwise healthy meal plan.

    All the best with your "mission."
    Last edited by scheherazade; May 9th, 2014 at 12:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Does your wife take any medications, OB? Some of those contribute to weight gain. Is it perhaps a genetic influence?

    Does she worry when you are away? Worry also predisposes one to weight gain.

    Another thought, does she eat as healthy when you are absent or is she given to snacking? Snacks and juice can decimate an otherwise healthy meal plan.

    All the best with your "mission."

    All good questions. Thank you for your help.

    OB
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    Let me repeat something I said before. You are not doing anyone any favours by urging they lose weight. Quite the opposite.

    Researchers on weight loss have found that only 5% of those who try can keep weight off for 5 years or more. 60% end up weighing more than the control group, showing that the effort to lose weight actually results in excessive weight gain. In addition, a substantial number of those determined to lose weight end up in the yo yo weight loss/gain cycle which actually harms the human heart, and increases the odds of early death by heart disease.

    People get fooled by the fact that short term weight loss is simple, and relatively easy. But only long term control is advantageous. Losing weight short term, only to put it back on again, is actively harmful, and that is what happens to 95% of those who try to lose weight.

    Do not, and I repeat, do not advise people to lose weight.
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  6. #106  
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    Do not, and I repeat, do not advise people to lose weight.
    oh i agree. i even encourage men to gain weight. the fatter all the men are the better chances i have with the women.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    Let me repeat something I said before. You are not doing anyone any favours by urging they lose weight. Quite the opposite.

    Researchers on weight loss have found that only 5% of those who try can keep weight off for 5 years or more. 60% end up weighing more than the control group, showing that the effort to lose weight actually results in excessive weight gain. In addition, a substantial number of those determined to lose weight end up in the yo yo weight loss/gain cycle which actually harms the human heart, and increases the odds of early death by heart disease.

    People get fooled by the fact that short term weight loss is simple, and relatively easy. But only long term control is advantageous. Losing weight short term, only to put it back on again, is actively harmful, and that is what happens to 95% of those who try to lose weight.

    Do not, and I repeat, do not advise people to lose weight.
    I never have, but let me repeat something I have said before: weight has got very little to do with size, and size, or being fat is what I am talking about. Being fat does not imply being heavy. Weight can be very misleading, depending on whether someone has been to the toilet or not before weighing, or has replaced fat with muscle for example.


    OB
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    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    I never have, but let me repeat something I have said before: weight has got very little to do with size, and size, or being fat is what I am talking about. Being fat does not imply being heavy. Weight can be very misleading, depending on whether someone has been to the toilet or not before weighing, or has replaced fat with muscle. Domestic weighing scales can give inconsistent readings too, so for anyone to base their life choices on a set of "toy" scales is folly to say the least. Use a mirror. You should be able to see the outline of your abs and other muscles of the body.
    Well I can't see that outline, but I can still feel it. It's still there just like I remember it. But right now I'm having other problems that I'm being treated for and it's making it difficult to say the least.
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    Sorry to hear that, Robot.

    OB
    Last edited by One beer; May 10th, 2014 at 08:30 AM.
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    Let me again repeat something I said before.

    Being fat, or even mildly obese is not a health problem. We get health problems from other causes, such as being physically unfit, or eating the wrong food.

    If a person is fat, then he or she needs to care good care with his/her health. That means eating a good balanced diet, and getting sufficient exercise. A fat person who does that will be just as healthy, and live just as long (if not longer) than a normally weighted or underweight person.

    If you want to talk to a fat person, I strongly suggest that you keep their weight off the conversational agenda, but you might be doing them a favour if you discuss a healthy, balanced diet, and proper exercise.
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  11. #111  
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    If a person is fat, then he or she needs to care good care with his/her health. That means eating a good balanced diet, and getting sufficient exercise.
    From a previous thread when replying to me:
    You are, however, correct, in saying that exercise will not do it.
    Just how much exercise do you think will shift the calories? A quarter marathon might not even be enough to burn off the burger and fries. Exercise does not work well enough to shift weight.

    Do you believe in these equations I wonder?
    Calories in > calories out = increase weight.
    Calories in = calories out = same weight.
    Calories in < calories out = lose weight.
    These might be true in principle but useless in practice. No commercial diet works. Even the 5:2 diet is nonsense. The only thing that works is to eat like a sparrow. Do not eat habitually. Listen to your body. Do not become a victim of social eating. Exercise for fun, not to lose weight. Be like the world's oldest man at 111, who puts it down to a modest diet.
    A fat person who does that will be just as healthy, and live just as long (if not longer) than a normally weighted or underweight person.
    What evidence do you have for this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chucknorium View Post
    Bad Robot! Bad Robot! That's just wrong! Bad, Bad Robot!
    Keep it up and I'll start calling you babe.

    But I have done picture threads about Wallmart people before.

    people of walmart - Bing Images

    Ya have a death wish, buddy? *L*
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    I have never been overweight.....and have had problems on occasion with keeping weight on (as when travelling).

    I have always been a dink.......and I am the only one in the family that is.

    Elder sister is heavy, like about 45 pounds over....part of that is prednisone.

    Younger sister.....bad eating habits .......

    Still love them!

    And BAD ROBOT!! You are in trouble buddy!!!! *GLARE*
    I am the runt of the litter, so to speak.
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  14. #114  
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I have never been overweight.....and have had problems on occasion with keeping weight on (as when travelling).

    I have always been a dink.......and I am the only one in the family that is.

    Elder sister is heavy, like about 45 pounds over....part of that is prednisone.

    Younger sister.....bad eating habits .......

    Still love them!

    And BAD ROBOT!! You are in trouble buddy!!!! *GLARE*
    I am the runt of the litter, so to speak.
    I'm sorry but being scolded reminded me of you. And being the runt of the litter is often very cute.
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  15. #115  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post

    Just how much exercise do you think will shift the calories? A quarter marathon might not even be enough to burn off the burger and fries. Exercise does not work well enough to shift weight.

    If you re-read my post, you will discover that I did not suggest exercise will shift calories, and I think you have missed the point. Exercise and a proper diet are not to lose weight. Losing weight long term is well nigh impossible for 95% of us.

    No, the aim of exercise and a better diet is to gain health. Not to lose weight. A fat person will remain fat, but will become healthier. Health and longevity, and the fitness to enjoy life. Those are the goals of better diet and exercise.
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  16. #116  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Eeew!
    A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it. - David Stevens
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  18. #118  
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    Just thought you might find this article about cutting weight interesting.

    MMA Training Techniques, Tips and Mixed Martial Arts Advice

    For any mixed martial arts fight cutting weight is a necessary evil and torment that everyone goes through. It is a very hard thing to do both physically and mentally. If you watch the Ultimate Fighter reality (TUF) series you will know how hard cutting weight can be. On a professional level Joe Diesel Riggs could not cutting enough weight when he was suppose to fight Matt Hughes for the UFC Welterweight title. Stephan Kesting will explain the proper way to cut weight if you so desire to do so.

    Cutting Weight

    Today I want to write about a practice I don't like and don't endorse, but that is probably here to stay: cutting weight to get into a lower weight bracket for competition. Whether you do it, want to do it, or just want to understand it, more information is better than no information, so I'm going to share some of what I know and then point you in some directions for your own research. Before I go on I'd like to clarify that the term 'cutting weight' is often used to describe two separate techniques practices:


    Method 1 - Dieting. This is the gradual reduction in weight through dieting (usually taking anywhere from 1 week to several months).
    Although rapid weight loss through dieting can be harmful to health if it is too severe or if you have some pre-existing medical conditions, it isn't as dangerous as the next method...


    Method 2 - Dehydration. This is the more rapid loss of weight via limiting water intake, exercising, sauna suits and saunas: here most of the weight comes off in the last 24 to 48 hours.


    These two methods aren't completely independent: they are often used together, with dehydration preceding dehydration. Furthermore even if you are only dehydrating (method 2) you still have to watch and manipulate aspects of your diet to avoid retaining water. One critical difference, however, is that given long enough between the weigh-in and the competition you can gain back almost all the weight lost due to dehydration, albeit with possible impairment of athletic function.


    The popularity of the show The Ultimate Fighter has familiarized many lay-people with the concept of cutting weight, since every second episode has some sort of drama revolving around an overweight fighter sitting in the sauna or having a colonic. What isn't appreciated as much is the science of re-hydration: fighters at this level dehydrate, weigh in, and then IMMEDIATELY start sipping electrolyte solutions such as pedialyte. They also often use IV solutions (yes, the bag, the tube, the needle in the arm) to re-hydrate faster and more thoroughly.


    Trying to function at a high level athletically while dehydrated is basically impossible, so the bigger the weight cut the more important it becomes that re-hydration is done properly. Weight cutting via dehydration is only really feasible when there is a long recovery time between the weigh-in and the actual competition. Also, competitors can cut a lot more weight if the weigh-ins are on the day before the competition (as opposed to the morning of the competition). When the rules allow (or mandate) competitors to weigh in on the day before a competition a sizeable advantage can go to the best weight cutter:
    weighing 180 lbs in a 170 lb division is fairly common, and some heavier fighters can gain almost 15 lbs of lost weight back in 24 hours.

    In a sense I understand why Boxing and MMA shows all have weigh-ins on the day before; these promotions have spent a lot of money hyping specific fights and individual fighters, and they need to be able to deal with those fighters coming in overweight. If Oscar De La Hoya had shown up 5 lbs over the 154 lb limit in his fight with Floyd Mayweather Jr then the promoters of the fight could have forced him to get back into the sauna suit and suffer. If, on the other hand, that weigh-in had been right before the fight then the promoters would have had a more difficult situation on their hands.
    So that is part of the reason why Boxing and MMA allow 24 or more hours to re-hydrate; I think everything changes though when it comes to tournaments, rather than shows with pre-ordained fights. If everyone just showed up and fought at their 'walking-around weight'
    then competition would be more about skill, technique and athleticism and less about the ability to cut weight and recover from it. I am told that Pan Am BJJ Championships now weigh you in before your match (it wasn't like this the year I was there), and at the World Championships it has been this way a lot longer. You step onto a scale at the edge of the mat immediately before your match: if you're too heavy then you go home and your opponent gets a win. This may sound harsh but it really is the only way to ensure that recreational players aren't endangering their health by cutting weight.

    Finally, if you have a kidney condition or blood pressure problems don't even consider cutting weight via dehydration. The strain can (and probably will) permanently damage your kidneys. Make sure that other people in your club know this and respect this.


    NOW If you stuck with me this far I'll point you in some directions for further reading

    *How dehydration (and incomplete rehydration) can damage athletic performance: *

    *Martin Rooney, the conditioning coach for Team Renzo Gracie explains how to cut weight via dehydration: *

    *An MMA.tv forum thread where Chris Brennan (who is known to cut a lot of weight sometimes) helps another fighter cut 12 lbs in 12 days: MMA news, fighter profiles and events

    *Chris Brennan's (rather extreme) diet for cutting weight: Nutrition

    Stephan Kesting
    www.grapplearts.com

    Mixed Martial Arts Tips - Cutting Weight - MMA Fight
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    Thanks for that video, Joe.

    It was a bit rambling and could have been much tighter and snappier, but very interesting all the same - I thought the comparison of fructose with ethanol was particularly telling.

    I knew about HFCS, and check the food labels to avoid it.

    If governments around the world had any conscience about what it was doing to the populations, they would either ban this stuff or tax it very heavily.



    OB
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    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Thanks for that video, Joe.

    It was a bit rambling and could have been much tighter and snappier, but very interesting all the same - I thought the comparison of fructose with ethanol was particularly telling.

    I knew about HFCS, and check the food labels to avoid it.

    If governments around the world had any conscience about what it was doing to the populations, they would either ban this stuff or tax it very heavily.



    OB
    Scared the heck out of me, so much so that about 1 year ago I cut out all refined and concentrated sugars. I dropped a pant size pretty quick. For years my weight kept creeping up, and this was the first change the other direction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmbettencourt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Sometimes an image speaks volumes.

    Here are two links to visualise a BMI:
    http://www.modelmydiet.com
    Body Mass Index Visualizer
    I'm usually most attracted to the body type of the 22 woman.

    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    P.S. I PERSONALLY do not believe in recovery.
    I don't get it.
    Last edited by SowZ37; May 11th, 2014 at 02:30 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I have never been overweight.....and have had problems on occasion with keeping weight on (as when travelling).

    I have always been a dink.......and I am the only one in the family that is.

    Elder sister is heavy, like about 45 pounds over....part of that is prednisone.

    Younger sister.....bad eating habits .......

    Still love them!

    And BAD ROBOT!! You are in trouble buddy!!!! *GLARE*
    I am the runt of the litter, so to speak.
    I'm sorry but being scolded reminded me of you. And being the runt of the litter is often very cute.
    *laughing*........you sure know how to sweet talk a lady, Sir Bad Robot!!!!




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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSixPack View Post

    Scared the heck out of me, so much so that about 1 year ago I cut out all refined and concentrated sugars. I dropped a pant size pretty quick. For years my weight kept creeping up, and this was the first change the other direction.

    Yeah, I have avoided sugar for years. I get odd looks at work when I refuse biscuits, sweets and chocolate, but it's much easier in the long run.


    Now, I have another question, particularly for the female members here: I keep myself fit and I am always dropping hints to my better half such as "well I'm off for a run now", or, "I've just done my daily sit-ups "etc.* Do you think this might actually be too much for her and is making her almost deliberately not do anything because I keep going on about what I'm doing too much?

    OB

    * Owing to our jobs, we are away from each other a lot and communicate via text etc.
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  24. #124  
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    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSixPack View Post

    Scared the heck out of me, so much so that about 1 year ago I cut out all refined and concentrated sugars. I dropped a pant size pretty quick. For years my weight kept creeping up, and this was the first change the other direction.

    Yeah, I have avoided sugar for years. I get odd looks at work when I refuse biscuits, sweets and chocolate, but it's much easier in the long run.


    Now, I have another question, particularly for the female members here: I keep myself fit and I am always dropping hints to my better half such as "well I'm off for a run now", or, "I've just done my daily sit-ups "etc.* Do you think this might actually be too much for her and is making her almost deliberately not do anything because I keep going on about what I'm doing too much?

    OB

    * Owing to our jobs, we are away from each other a lot and communicate via text etc.
    You raise a very good question, OB.

    Men and women have differences in their dietary preferences, based upon my observations, and many women find it more challenging to remain fit over the course of time and as they proceed through the hormonal changes of menopause. Women frequently bear the burden of stress for the family and/or they may have a more sedentary yet challenging job that does not leave time or energy for exercise. When I am dressed for my office job, as example, I am not going to get all sweated up going for a walk on my break on a hot day.

    As it is not an uncommon occurrence for men to leave their wives for a younger woman, your wife may also be enduring some anxiety that your fitness and your occupation may provide an opportunity for a rival to turn your head. I am not suggesting that this may be the case, merely stating that many women harbor secret insecurities that they may not even acknowledge to themselves.
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  25. #125  
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    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSixPack View Post

    Scared the heck out of me, so much so that about 1 year ago I cut out all refined and concentrated sugars. I dropped a pant size pretty quick. For years my weight kept creeping up, and this was the first change the other direction.

    Yeah, I have avoided sugar for years. I get odd looks at work when I refuse biscuits, sweets and chocolate, but it's much easier in the long run.
    I cannot always refuse chocolate, especially good high cacao dark chocolate. Still when I do eat it, it is rare and in small savored quantities. I also occasionally drink a breer or two or a little wine. (I suspect you may allow yourself "one beer" occasionally, ). I know (or at least accept Lustig and colleagues' hypothesis) that alcohol and fructose are similar in terms of chronic effects. My philosophy (with a small "p") is if I am going to take an occasional liver hit, amke it worth it!


    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Now, I have another question, particularly for the female members here: I keep myself fit and I am always dropping hints to my better half such as "well I'm off for a run now", or, "I've just done my daily sit-ups "etc.* Do you think this might actually be too much for her and is making her almost deliberately not do anything because I keep going on about what I'm doing too much?

    OB

    * Owing to our jobs, we are away from each other a lot and communicate via text etc.
    I would add that Lustig and colleagues' feel that they have changed the paradigm about calories, and the role of exercise in weight gain/loss/maintenance. You said "stay fit", but the topic of hte thread implies that means maintaining a low body fat content. I think this idea really needs rethinking in terms of the ideas being presented in the video. (I also got his book "Fat Chance...", it gets deeper into the video topic, and extends the ideas into weight maintenance, diet, etc. substantially more).

    If "weight loss" is the goal, exercise is questionable. If fat conversion to muscle is the goal (healthy) then we are talking strenuous exercise. If just general fitness is the goal, then any exercise is probably pretty good.

    And actually, excluding visceral fat, Dr. Lustig is kind of saying "being fat is OK"!
    Last edited by JoeSixPack; May 11th, 2014 at 11:54 AM. Reason: add last point
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    Just a point about good diet. While switching to a balanced diet is unlikely, in itself, to help in losing weight, except temporarily, there is a bit from New Scientist, 3 May 2014, page 14 that is of interest.

    Experiments on mice show that a group on a high fat diet, that had fibre added to their food, ate less than a control group. Extra fibre in the mouse diet meant more acetate going to the mouse brain, which appears to be an appetite suppressant. We must take this with caution, of course, since experiments on mice may or may not be applicable to humans. But a high fibre diet does appear to correlate with lower body weight in humans, and it may be that fibre will reduce appetite, and hence be protective against gaining extra weight.
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    Well, I for one am going to live my life to the fullest.

    I could get his by a car and having been in a major car accident...I GET IT!

    Not saying be out of control or stupid....but I am not going to dole out anything in life thinking it will extend it.....because frankly..it probably won't generally speaking unless you are out of control.

    I live each day as if it were my last....be it a walk on the beach, the gym...a glass or two of champagne.......I shall not deny myself, not shall I exceed which is safe.
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  29. #129  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post

    You raise a very good question, OB.

    Men and women have differences in their dietary preferences, based upon my observations, and many women find it more challenging to remain fit over the course of time and as they proceed through the hormonal changes of menopause. Women frequently bear the burden of stress for the family and/or they may have a more sedentary yet challenging job that does not leave time or energy for exercise. When I am dressed for my office job, as example, I am not going to get all sweated up going for a walk on my break on a hot day.

    As it is not an uncommon occurrence for men to leave their wives for a younger woman, your wife may also be enduring some anxiety that your fitness and your occupation may provide an opportunity for a rival to turn your head. I am not suggesting that this may be the case, merely stating that many women harbor secret insecurities that they may not even acknowledge to themselves.
    Thank you, that helps.

    It's odd though, because my sit-ups and press-ups take only 10 mins a day, which is not a lot of time. They are easy to do before my shower and they give me a flat tummy and good shape without needing any special equipment.

    I also try to run/jog a few miles twice a week, which is good for heart/lung fitness and for de-stressing.

    OB
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    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post

    You raise a very good question, OB.

    Men and women have differences in their dietary preferences, based upon my observations, and many women find it more challenging to remain fit over the course of time and as they proceed through the hormonal changes of menopause. Women frequently bear the burden of stress for the family and/or they may have a more sedentary yet challenging job that does not leave time or energy for exercise. When I am dressed for my office job, as example, I am not going to get all sweated up going for a walk on my break on a hot day.

    As it is not an uncommon occurrence for men to leave their wives for a younger woman, your wife may also be enduring some anxiety that your fitness and your occupation may provide an opportunity for a rival to turn your head. I am not suggesting that this may be the case, merely stating that many women harbor secret insecurities that they may not even acknowledge to themselves.
    Thank you, that helps.

    It's odd though, because my sit-ups and press-ups take only 10 mins a day, which is not a lot of time. They are easy to do before my shower and they give me a flat tummy and good shape without needing any special equipment.

    I also try to run/jog a few miles twice a week, which is good for heart/lung fitness and for de-stressing.

    OB
    *smile*

    You forgot STRETCHES!! One of the most important things!

    I have done sit ups and push ups and stretches EVERY day of my life, except when incapacitated since I was 8 years old!

    I also do power beach walks.....and the gym.....but STRETCHES are very very important as you get older!
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    I think this is a nonsense study (one of many..)

    So yeah, being fat is healthy...got it lol..
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  32. #132  
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post

    *smile*

    You forgot STRETCHES!! One of the most important things!

    I have done sit ups and push ups and stretches EVERY day of my life, except when incapacitated since I was 8 years old!

    I also do power beach walks.....and the gym.....but STRETCHES are very very important as you get older!

    I forgot to stretch after my run yesterday - because I went straight in the sea to swim - and I'm paying for that omission today! Ouch!
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    Quote Originally Posted by one beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post

    *smile*

    you forgot stretches!! One of the most important things!

    I have done sit ups and push ups and stretches every day of my life, except when incapacitated since i was 8 years old!

    I also do power beach walks.....and the gym.....but stretches are very very important as you get older!

    i forgot to stretch after my run yesterday - because i went straight in the sea to swim - and i'm paying for that omission today! Ouch!
    including your groin area *l*
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post

    including your groin area *l*
    Yikes !

    OB
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    Our society uses food as a means of celebration so before I headed off for my week long break, I decided that I would be the ideal guest and not impose my dietary preferences on any of my hosts, including the in-flight service. I would eat anything that was offered and exercise preferences only when options were offered. There are no foods that I cannot eat, although there are consequences to be had for some, such as tartrazine. Still, in moderation, nothing will kill me and portion control is publicly acceptable. Mom and Dad do not eat dessert save when the kids are visiting so we ate very healthy for the first half of the week and a little less so once we started having company over but that is where the other tactics came into play. Most of our meals were made from scratch although we cheated and bought frozen lasagna one night as we could get a vegetarian option and a regular option and then enjoy a visit while these convenience foods cooked.

    We masterfully threw together a veggie platter and made a couple of homemade dips, thereby thwarting the chip and dip crowd for one afternoon. (Mom, Dad & I are not snack people. If we feel a bit peckish between meals, we grab a piece of whole fruit.) The second afternoon of socializing had both veggies and dip (we made lots! ) and by then they had regrouped and found some tortilla chips, hummus and salsa. Homemade hummus I quite approve of but not store bought because they have to add preservatives and emulsifiers to it. On the third evening of their visit, they decided on Chinese food for Mother's Day so we undoubtedly got a healthy dose of MSG and tartrazine in that lot but what the hey...

    I would like to interject that my vegetarian in-laws are interesting in that brother in law and nephew are poster children for thin people with high metabolism and sister in law is definitely on the overweight to mildly obese side of the equation but in my observation, that would be related to her appetite, food choices (likes her carbs) and activity choices. She power walks each day but the math of what she ingests exceeds what she outputs from what I observed and know of their lifestyle. What I found of concern was that both of them are on prescription medication for digestion, Zantec, so how the hey does this convince me that eating vegetarian is a healthy choice? I rather suspect that they eat vegetarian but that a lot of it is processed, hence my experiment going forward to become even more militant about what I eat.

    No more 'modified milk ingredients'. I want dairy products that are only, milk, cream and in the case of yogurt, bacterial culture. I will make our own sour cream when needed and we do not use it often.
    " " 'carageenan'. My mature chemist friend from Yugoslavia suggested I read up on this ingredient. Underground Health ReporterCarrageenan Side Effects Not So Safe And Natural
    " " 'natural flavor'. Name them or I won't eat them.
    " " 'hydrolyzed proteins', of any variety.

    At any rate, I stepped on the scale today and discovered that a week of socializing, very little activity and sport eating had not changed my weight so now we can begin our little experiment in earnest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    .............What I found of concern was that both of them are on prescription medication for digestion, Zantec........ I rather suspect that they eat a ........lot of ....processed..........

    No more 'modified milk ingredients'. I want dairy products that are only, milk, cream and in the case of yogurt, bacterial culture. I will make our own sour cream when needed and we do not use it often.
    " " 'carageenan'. My mature chemist friend from Yugoslavia suggested I read up on this ingredient. Underground Health ReporterCarrageenan Side Effects Not So Safe And Natural
    " " 'natural flavor'. Name them or I won't eat them.
    " " 'hydrolyzed proteins', of any variety.

    Aarghh, this sort of thing drives me mad! What are doctors doing prescribing DRUGS for (bad) digestion??

    They should be "prescribing" a proper diet with FIBRE in it and natural ingredients, with no added sugar, salt or fat, that's all that is needed.

    OB
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    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post

    including your groin area *l*
    Yikes !

    OB
    YOu need to stretch that area of your body also!.....

    I never got why men don't get that!

    I am talking physical health stretching!!! *glare*
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  38. #138  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Our society uses food as a means of celebration so before I headed off for my week long break, I decided that I would be the ideal guest and not impose my dietary preferences on any of my hosts, including the in-flight service. I would eat anything that was offered and exercise preferences only when options were offered. There are no foods that I cannot eat, although there are consequences to be had for some, such as tartrazine. Still, in moderation, nothing will kill me and portion control is publicly acceptable. Mom and Dad do not eat dessert save when the kids are visiting so we ate very healthy for the first half of the week and a little less so once we started having company over but that is where the other tactics came into play. Most of our meals were made from scratch although we cheated and bought frozen lasagna one night as we could get a vegetarian option and a regular option and then enjoy a visit while these convenience foods cooked.

    We masterfully threw together a veggie platter and made a couple of homemade dips, thereby thwarting the chip and dip crowd for one afternoon. (Mom, Dad & I are not snack people. If we feel a bit peckish between meals, we grab a piece of whole fruit.) The second afternoon of socializing had both veggies and dip (we made lots! ) and by then they had regrouped and found some tortilla chips, hummus and salsa. Homemade hummus I quite approve of but not store bought because they have to add preservatives and emulsifiers to it. On the third evening of their visit, they decided on Chinese food for Mother's Day so we undoubtedly got a healthy dose of MSG and tartrazine in that lot but what the hey...

    I would like to interject that my vegetarian in-laws are interesting in that brother in law and nephew are poster children for thin people with high metabolism and sister in law is definitely on the overweight to mildly obese side of the equation but in my observation, that would be related to her appetite, food choices (likes her carbs) and activity choices. She power walks each day but the math of what she ingests exceeds what she outputs from what I observed and know of their lifestyle. What I found of concern was that both of them are on prescription medication for digestion, Zantec, so how the hey does this convince me that eating vegetarian is a healthy choice? I rather suspect that they eat vegetarian but that a lot of it is processed, hence my experiment going forward to become even more militant about what I eat.

    No more 'modified milk ingredients'. I want dairy products that are only, milk, cream and in the case of yogurt, bacterial culture. I will make our own sour cream when needed and we do not use it often.
    " " 'carageenan'. My mature chemist friend from Yugoslavia suggested I read up on this ingredient. Underground Health ReporterCarrageenan Side Effects Not So Safe And Natural
    " " 'natural flavor'. Name them or I won't eat them.
    " " 'hydrolyzed proteins', of any variety.

    At any rate, I stepped on the scale today and discovered that a week of socializing, very little activity and sport eating had not changed my weight so now we can begin our little experiment in earnest.


    My mother would give you a TWO HOUR LECTURE if you told her she is YUGOSLOVIAN...as would anyone else in the area.....it is Slovenia, Croatia, Dalmatia, Monte Negro, Serbia......
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    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    .............What I found of concern was that both of them are on prescription medication for digestion, Zantec........ I rather suspect that they eat a ........lot of ....processed..........

    No more 'modified milk ingredients'. I want dairy products that are only, milk, cream and in the case of yogurt, bacterial culture. I will make our own sour cream when needed and we do not use it often.
    " " 'carageenan'. My mature chemist friend from Yugoslavia suggested I read up on this ingredient. Underground Health ReporterCarrageenan Side Effects Not So Safe And Natural
    " " 'natural flavor'. Name them or I won't eat them.
    " " 'hydrolyzed proteins', of any variety.

    Aarghh, this sort of thing drives me mad! What are doctors doing prescribing DRUGS for (bad) digestion??

    They should be "prescribing" a proper diet with FIBRE in it and natural ingredients, with no added sugar, salt or fat, that's all that is needed.

    OB
    Don't agree. That doesn't work for all people who have tried that. Myself included. I have plenty of fiber in my diet....but my stomach from drugs after car accident for months....has seriously affected my stomach. I can't eat things I LOVE...lettuce....spinach, kale....

    Not all can be adjusted correctly with diet, no matter HOW ard you try.
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  40. #140  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post


    My mother would give you a TWO HOUR LECTURE if you told her she is YUGOSLOVIAN...as would anyone else in the area.....it is Slovenia, Croatia, Dalmatia, Monte Negro, Serbia......
    My mentor was born into the country of Yugoslavia and immigrated to Canada from Yugoslavia. He did say that it has since been divided into many smaller countries but as he identifies with his former nation, I reference the 'old country' when I speak broadly of him. I am also intentionally vague about personal details of people when I am on line.


    The postwar Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia covered 98,766 sq mi (255,804 sq km) and had a population of about 24 million by 1991. In addition to Serbia and Montenegro, socialist Yugoslavia included four other republics now recognized as independent states: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, and Slovenia. The “third Yugoslavia,” inaugurated on April 27, 1992, had roughly 45% of the population and 40% of the area of its predecessor and consisted of the republics of Serbia and Montenegro, which in 2003 abandoned the name Yugoslavia and renamed the country Serbia and Montenegro. By 2006 the republics had become separate countries.
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  41. #141  
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post


    Aarghh, this sort of thing drives me mad! What are doctors doing prescribing DRUGS for (bad) digestion??

    They should be "prescribing" a proper diet with FIBRE in it and natural ingredients, with no added sugar, salt or fat, that's all that is needed.

    OB
    Don't agree. That doesn't work for all people who have tried that. Myself included. I have plenty of fiber in my diet....but my stomach from drugs after car accident for months....has seriously affected my stomach. I can't eat things I LOVE...lettuce....spinach, kale....

    Not all can be adjusted correctly with diet, no matter HOW ard you try.
    Oh I'm sorry to hear that Ms babe. No you're right; there will be folk who do need drugs owing to illness etc.

    I didn't make it clear that I was really talking about folk who might have never eaten a fresh apple or raw carrot, but instead have eaten only processed food all their lives - or food which is covered with sugary or salty c**p. To give these people drugs to aid their digestion, which is simply struggling to process the c**p is ridiculous.
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  42. #142  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post


    Aarghh, this sort of thing drives me mad! What are doctors doing prescribing DRUGS for (bad) digestion??

    They should be "prescribing" a proper diet with FIBRE in it and natural ingredients, with no added sugar, salt or fat, that's all that is needed.

    OB
    Don't agree. That doesn't work for all people who have tried that. Myself included. I have plenty of fiber in my diet....but my stomach from drugs after car accident for months....has seriously affected my stomach. I can't eat things I LOVE...lettuce....spinach, kale....

    Not all can be adjusted correctly with diet, no matter HOW ard you try.
    Oh I'm sorry to hear that Ms babe. No you're right; there will be folk who do need drugs owing to illness etc.

    I didn't make it clear that I was really talking about folk who might have never eaten a fresh apple or raw carrot, but instead have eaten only processed food all their lives - or food which is covered with sugary or salty c**p. To give these people drugs to aid their digestion, which is simply struggling to process the c**p is ridiculous.
    It has always struck me as ironic that we have a whole section of 'digestive aids' in a grocery store.

    You would think that a purportedly intelligent species would avoid eating foods that knowingly cause digestive upset and have been implicated by scientific study as suspect in a host of other diseases and conditions. Interestingly, our ability to fabricate our own nutrition has enabled us to venture far beyond the habitat where eating what nature provides in it's more basic states of fresh, dried or frozen (by the seasons) formerly limited our expansion as a species.

    A double edged sword, for a fact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post


    Aarghh, this sort of thing drives me mad! What are doctors doing prescribing DRUGS for (bad) digestion??

    They should be "prescribing" a proper diet with FIBRE in it and natural ingredients, with no added sugar, salt or fat, that's all that is needed.

    OB
    Don't agree. That doesn't work for all people who have tried that. Myself included. I have plenty of fiber in my diet....but my stomach from drugs after car accident for months....has seriously affected my stomach. I can't eat things I LOVE...lettuce....spinach, kale....

    Not all can be adjusted correctly with diet, no matter HOW ard you try.
    Oh I'm sorry to hear that Ms babe. No you're right; there will be folk who do need drugs owing to illness etc.

    I didn't make it clear that I was really talking about folk who might have never eaten a fresh apple or raw carrot, but instead have eaten only processed food all their lives - or food which is covered with sugary or salty c**p. To give these people drugs to aid their digestion, which is simply struggling to process the c**p is ridiculous.
    It's ok......

    I am a fruit NUT...and vege's that I can eat I INDULGE in...I love them!

    As my children were growing up....I kept no chips or cookies in the house....their snacks were, carrots, celery, radishes, apple's.....



    Interesting thing...they still eat that way!
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  44. #144  
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    [QUOTE=scheherazade;566540]
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post


    Aarghh, this sort of thing drives me mad! What are doctors doing prescribing DRUGS for (bad) digestion??

    They should be "prescribing" a proper diet with FIBRE in it and natural ingredients, with no added sugar, salt or fat, that's all that is needed.

    OB
    .....I didn't make it clear that I was really talking about folk who might have never eaten a fresh apple or raw carrot, but instead have eaten only processed food all their lives - or food which is covered with sugary or salty c**p. To give these people drugs to aid their digestion, which is simply struggling to process the c**p is ridiculous.
    It has always struck me as ironic that we have a whole section of 'digestive aids' in a grocery store.

    You would think that a purportedly intelligent species would avoid eating foods that knowingly cause digestive upset and have been implicated by scientific study as suspect in a host of other diseases and conditions. Interestingly, our ability to fabricate our own nutrition has enabled us to venture far beyond the habitat where eating what nature provides in it's more basic states of fresh, dried or frozen (by the seasons) formerly limited our expansion as a species.

    A double edged sword, for a fact.
    It is quite scary.

    I recently watched a consumer type program where people were asked if they realised what extra chemical ingredients were in shop produced wholemeal bread, (which should only traditionally be wholemeal flour, yeast and water, I believe). Not one of the people asked realised that there were many other ingredients, which in turn told me that they never read the labels !

    Now of course, this was a small sample of respondents, selected to offer the view the producer wanted, but even so, I was surprised at the number of folk who obviously don't read food labelling.

    This leads me to think that most folk never notice the added sugar and HFCS etc. that has been added to their 'food', and this could explain a lot about obesity.



    OB
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  45. #145  
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    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    It is quite scary.

    I recently watched a consumer type program where people were asked if they realised what extra chemical ingredients were in shop produced wholemeal bread, (which should only traditionally be wholemeal flour, yeast and water, I believe). Not one of the people asked realised that there were many other ingredients, which in turn told me that they never read the labels !

    Now of course, this was a small sample of respondents, selected to offer the view the producer wanted, but even so, I was surprised at the number of folk who obviously don't read food labelling.

    This leads me to think that most folk never notice the added sugar and HFCS etc. that has been added to their 'food', and this could explain a lot about obesity.
    OB
    Manufacturers of processed foods are experts at advertising and consumers accept the claims made and features high-lighted without understanding the fine details. It has been suggested that over 80% of processed food contains added sugar in one form or another to enhance flavor and texture yet most consumers are not even aware of the many names for sweeteners. Additionally, the industry has convinced consumers that 'natural sugars' are 'healthier' than processed sugars yet the digestive system sees them as the same thing, 4 calories per gram. Many simple carbohydrates are also treated by the body in similar fashion.

    Sugar by any other name includes:

    • barley malt
    • beet sugar
    • brown sugar
    • buttered syrup
    • cane-juice crystals
    • cane sugar
    • caramel
    • carob syrup
    • corn syrup
    • corn syrup solids

    That's just a small taste of it. There are many, many more so read more

    • date sugar
    • dextran
    • dextrose
    • diatase
    • diastatic malt
    • ethyl maltol
    • fructose
    • fruit juice
    • fruit juice concentrate
    • glucose
    • glucose solids
    • golden sugar
    • golden syrup
    • grape sugar
    • high-fructose corn syrup
    • honey
    • invert sugar
    • lactose
    • malt syrup
    • maltodextrin
    • maltose
    • mannitol
    • molasses
    • raw sugar
    • refiner's syrup
    • sorbitol
    • sorghum syrup
    • sucrose
    • sugar
    • turbinado sugar
    • yellow sugar

    Other Names for Sugar That Appear on Labels
    The above list does not contain all of the many artificial sweeteners.
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    [QUOTE=One beer;567113]
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post


    Aarghh, this sort of thing drives me mad! What are doctors doing prescribing DRUGS for (bad) digestion??

    They should be "prescribing" a proper diet with FIBRE in it and natural ingredients, with no added sugar, salt or fat, that's all that is needed.




    OB
    .....I didn't make it clear that I was really talking about folk who might have never eaten a fresh apple or raw carrot, but instead have eaten only processed food all their lives - or food which is covered with sugary or salty c**p. To give these people drugs to aid their digestion, which is simply struggling to process the c**p is ridiculous.
    It has always struck me as ironic that we have a whole section of 'digestive aids' in a grocery store.

    You would think that a purportedly intelligent species would avoid eating foods that knowingly cause digestive upset and have been implicated by scientific study as suspect in a host of other diseases and conditions. Interestingly, our ability to fabricate our own nutrition has enabled us to venture far beyond the habitat where eating what nature provides in it's more basic states of fresh, dried or frozen (by the seasons) formerly limited our expansion as a species.

    A double edged sword, for a fact.
    It is quite scary.

    I recently watched a consumer type program where people were asked if they realised what extra chemical ingredients were in shop produced wholemeal bread, (which should only traditionally be wholemeal flour, yeast and water, I believe). Not one of the people asked realised that there were many other ingredients, which in turn told me that they never read the labels !

    Now of course, this was a small sample of respondents, selected to offer the view the producer wanted, but even so, I was surprised at the number of folk who obviously don't read food labelling.

    This leads me to think that most folk never notice the added sugar and HFCS etc. that has been added to their 'food', and this could explain a lot about obesity.



    OB
    I read them!! THen again...I pretty much make everything from scratch. Bad habit of mine.
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  47. #147  
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    I make my own bread. It is wholemeal and multi-grain and as healthy as it is possible for bread to be. I have 14 ingredients, which includes sugar and salt. Sugar is needed to get the yeast working, and salt is needed at least in a small dose to make the bloody thing palatable (I kid. It is delicious!)

    The number of ingredients is irrelevant to its health. Nor are small amounts of food additives a problem. The only things in bread that are genuinely harmful are white flour, excessive amounts of sugar, excess salt, and anything carrying saturated fat.
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  48. #148  
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    I make my own bread. It is wholemeal and multi-grain and as healthy as it is possible for bread to be. I have 14 ingredients, which includes sugar and salt. Sugar is needed to get the yeast working, and salt is needed at least in a small dose to make the bloody thing palatable (I kid. It is delicious!)

    The number of ingredients is irrelevant to its health. Nor are small amounts of food additives a problem. The only things in bread that are genuinely harmful are white flour, excessive amounts of sugar, excess salt, and anything carrying saturated fat.
    Are you into sharing your recipe and ingredients? My hubby likes his bread and I am rearranging my life to get back into making more food from scratch.
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  49. #149  
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    To scheherazade

    No problem.
    I use a modern Panasonic bread maker, which takes all the work out of it. I am basically lazy. You simply measure the ingredients into the breadmaker's bowl, put it back and turn it on. Five hours later, you have hot, fresh, delicious bread. Or you can set it for a delayed bake. I do this, by setting it up the night before so that it is complete in time for my breakfast. I bought some plastic measures to get exactly standard teaspoon, tablespoon, half cup and one cup quantities.

    The ingredients I use are :
    1. Proper breadmakers yeast - 3 teaspoons. The kind of yeast is vital, so get local advice on this.
    2. Half cup white flour. Two cups wholemeal. Half cup of soya flour. Two tablespoons gluten flour.
    3. Half teaspoon salt.
    4. One and a half tablespoons brown sugar (needed to get the yeast to work)
    5. One and a half tablespoons of low fat milk powder.
    6. Two tablespoons each of poppy seed, sesame seed, sunflower seed, pumpkin seed, and linseed.
    7. One and a half cups of water.

    This makes a loaf that is rich in fibre, protein, various polyunsaturated fatty acids, and heaps of healthy vitamins etc. It is also delicious.

    Warning : eat too much and your bowel motions will become regular and frequent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Our culture idolizes an unrealistic body image by-and-large. The rising level of obesity, I attribute to the availability of high caloric density processed food which does not satisfy nutritional requirements and an increasingly sedentary lifestyle. It is quite possible to reduce weight and increase fitness simply through a change in what one eats, portion control and increased activity, but the benefits are only realized when lifestyle changes are maintained. A 'healthy weight' may well be somewhat heavier than the media is wont to portray.

    "Eating in moderation is a good idea for everybody, and so is regular exercise," Mann said at the time of the initial study.

    "If dieting worked, it wouldn't be a $60 billion dollar industry," said Tomiyama, who noted that trying to be thin is similar to trying to be taller.
    "The genetic power over weight is about the same as the power of genes over your height," she said. "People who say it's your fault if you're fat underappreciate the role of genes."
    (From the link in the OP)

    As regards there being far fewer overweight elderly people, I would hypothesize that people of my mother's generation learned portion control at an early age and cooked largely from scratch, eating more whole foods than processed ones. The elderly folk that I know are still more physically active than many youth, busy gardening and moving about instead of being sedentary, playing with a screen. Other factors in aging can be dentition issues and reduced ability to absorb nutrition, with resulting gradual weight loss.
    To add to what you have said Scher, I also agree that fatness is a culture based idea. Some cultures look at fatness different than being overweight. For example some African countries especially the men like a woman with a fat bottom, but not fat in the rest of the body. There is also another fact that should be looked at when it comes to what is eaten. Some cultures can eat as much carbohydrates they want, yet they do not get fat while other cultures cannot do that.

    In terms of aging, I think older people realize how important movement and diet is, they tend to take more care. As you know younger people think they are going to be young and live forever, they do not pay so much attention.
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  51. #151  
    Forum Bachelors Degree One beer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    To scheherazade

    No problem.
    I use a modern Panasonic bread maker, which takes all the work out of it. I am basically lazy. You simply measure the ingredients into the breadmaker's bowl, put it back and turn it on. Five hours later, you have hot, fresh, delicious bread. Or you can set it for a delayed bake. I do this, by setting it up the night before so that it is complete in time for my breakfast. I bought some plastic measures to get exactly standard teaspoon, tablespoon, half cup and one cup quantities.

    The ingredients I use are :
    1. Proper breadmakers yeast - 3 teaspoons. The kind of yeast is vital, so get local advice on this.
    2. Half cup white flour. Two cups wholemeal. Half cup of soya flour. Two tablespoons gluten flour.
    3. Half teaspoon salt.
    4. One and a half tablespoons brown sugar (needed to get the yeast to work)
    5. One and a half tablespoons of low fat milk powder.
    6. Two tablespoons each of poppy seed, sesame seed, sunflower seed, pumpkin seed, and linseed.
    7. One and a half cups of water.

    This makes a loaf that is rich in fibre, protein, various polyunsaturated fatty acids, and heaps of healthy vitamins etc. It is also delicious.

    Warning : eat too much and your bowel motions will become regular and frequent.

    I used to do this too, with the same make of bread maker and very similar recipe.

    I found that I didn't need the milk powder at all, and I used teaspoons of sugar in place of tablespoon measures. I used mostly wholemeal or granary flour.

    I then used to add a little bit of whatever I had in the kitchen; chopped up nuts, dates, figs, apricots, tomatoes, olives or seeds, just to make an interesting loaf.

    The recipe I used called for butter or margerine, but I used olive oil. What I got was a fantastic loaf, really tasty and interesting, and it stayed soft and fresh much longer than the dry shop bought rubbish. My bread was always different depending which non-bread ingredients I had used that day to make it.

    Sandwiches made from this bread were a meal in themselves, and I knew that there were no chemicals or additives in it, apart from sometimes a bit of 'flour improver' depending where I got my flour from.

    OB
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  52. #152  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    I ordered a Breville BREBBM800XL bread maker yesterday. Hubby has a Black & Decker and I made a loaf in it for the first time a couple of days prior and decided that a more upscale unit will come in handy for our needs. I used to make all of our bread kneading by hand and even sold loaves to neighbors when we were working from home. The technology of bread makers has greatly improved and I anticipate that we will enjoy a number of the recipes in the book that I ordered which is tailored to Canadian measures and flour varieties. The delay start setting and the add ingredients hopper will allow me to bake bread while we are sleeping and like One Beer, I always have a few interesting items around that can go into the mix. The unit can also be used just to mix the dough for pizza or pasta, sweet breads etc. and I can utilize a wide range of flours and even grind nuts, oats and other grains using the Vitamix as it is rated for such duties.

    LOL, I also bought a Dreamfarm garlic press that is designed in Australia and you do not even have to peel the cloves. It could double as a tire iron, flicks out the peel, has a self cleaner for the pores and washes up in hot soapy water. A seriously delightful piece of kit.

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  53. #153  
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    I had butter tonight.

    Gonna die.
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  54. #154  
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I had butter tonight.

    Gonna die.

    "they" now tell us that natural fats such as butter (in moderation) are good for us.....
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  55. #155  
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    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I had butter tonight.

    Gonna die.

    "they" now tell us that natural fats such as butter (in moderation) are good for us.....
    Having a mother who was raised on a farm in Slovenia....I eat things and have for years that others don't and grew up using olive oil for cooking!! *chuckle* She just turned 90......volunteers at the hospital, drives, washes her car, her windows, gardens and cleans her house.

    I don't eat anything often enough to kill me, however, I INTEND to enjoy my life.

    We go on this parade once in our life..........I'm gonna die anyhow. I just attempt not to be stupid!
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  56. #156  
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    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I had butter tonight.

    Gonna die.

    "they" now tell us that natural fats such as butter (in moderation) are good for us.....
    But there is significant debate about dairy in general.
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  57. #157  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I had butter tonight.

    Gonna die.

    "they" now tell us that natural fats such as butter (in moderation) are good for us.....

    But there is significant debate about dairy in general.
    I have no proof, but I think grown ups should not drink milk, I think after the baby is weened milk becomes a clogging agent. Please do not crucify me it is just my opinion.
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  58. #158  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post

    I have no proof, but I think grown ups should not drink milk, I think after the baby is weened milk becomes a clogging agent. Please do not crucify me it is just my opinion.
    As long as you are getting enough protein from other sources, I agree with what you are saying. I personally don't consume very much dairy. No milk, some cheese (pizza).
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  59. #159  
    exchemist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I had butter tonight.

    Gonna die.

    "they" now tell us that natural fats such as butter (in moderation) are good for us.....

    But there is significant debate about dairy in general.
    I have no proof, but I think grown ups should not drink milk, I think after the baby is weened milk becomes a clogging agent. Please do not crucify me it is just my opinion.
    The trouble is, Stargate, that from a science perspective, which is what we have here, your remark is an unscientific one. A "clogging agent" has no meaning in the context of diet.

    What we do know is that while children can digest milk, the ability of adults to digest the lactose in milk varies, genetically. In some populations the ability to do so is progressively lost as the child grows to adulthood. It is suggested that populations in parts of the world where grazing animals were domesticated early may have found a survival advantage in being to continue to process lactose through into adulthood, while for other populations there was no such advantage.

    Most people of European or Middle Eastern origin can process lactose. So for them milk is a perfectly good source of food, long after weaning [note the spelling] and not a "clogging agent", whatever you mean by that.

    There is more about this here: Lactose intolerance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  60. #160  
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I had butter tonight.

    Gonna die.

    "they" now tell us that natural fats such as butter (in moderation) are good for us.....

    But there is significant debate about dairy in general.
    I have no proof, but I think grown ups should not drink milk, I think after the baby is weened milk becomes a clogging agent. Please do not crucify me it is just my opinion.
    The trouble is, Stargate, that from a science perspective, which is what we have here, your remark is an unscientific one. A "clogging agent" has no meaning in the context of diet.

    What we do know is that while children can digest milk, the ability of adults to digest the lactose in milk varies, genetically. In some populations the ability to do so is progressively lost as the child grows to adulthood. It is suggested that populations in parts of the world where grazing animals were domesticated early may have found a survival advantage in being to continue to process lactose through into adulthood, while for other populations there was no such advantage.

    Most people of European or Middle Eastern origin can process lactose. So for them milk is a perfectly good source of food, long after weaning [note the spelling] and not a "clogging agent", whatever you mean by that.

    There is more about this here: Lactose intolerance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Well, I do agree with you that different cultures will show different results. As I said before my input was not scientific. I do thank you for the correction with my spelling.

    I meant clogging agent as an agent that clogs the cell tissues with fat. Remember now, other cultures have different results.
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  61. #161  
    exchemist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I had butter tonight.

    Gonna die.

    "they" now tell us that natural fats such as butter (in moderation) are good for us.....

    But there is significant debate about dairy in general.
    I have no proof, but I think grown ups should not drink milk, I think after the baby is weened milk becomes a clogging agent. Please do not crucify me it is just my opinion.
    The trouble is, Stargate, that from a science perspective, which is what we have here, your remark is an unscientific one. A "clogging agent" has no meaning in the context of diet.

    What we do know is that while children can digest milk, the ability of adults to digest the lactose in milk varies, genetically. In some populations the ability to do so is progressively lost as the child grows to adulthood. It is suggested that populations in parts of the world where grazing animals were domesticated early may have found a survival advantage in being to continue to process lactose through into adulthood, while for other populations there was no such advantage.

    Most people of European or Middle Eastern origin can process lactose. So for them milk is a perfectly good source of food, long after weaning [note the spelling] and not a "clogging agent", whatever you mean by that.

    There is more about this here: Lactose intolerance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Well, I do agree with you that different cultures will show different results. As I said before my input was not scientific. I do thank you for the correction with my spelling.

    I meant clogging agent as an agent that clogs the cell tissues with fat. Remember now, other cultures have different results.
    Yes that objectively speaking is not really true.

    While full fat milk has an amount of fat in it, it has less than in a lot of other foods we eat quite happily. And of course skimmed milk has little or none. Milk also contains a good deal of proteins and minerals (Ca especially) that make it a very valuable and nutritious foodstuff.

    The fact that populations of people have differing ability to process lactose is not a cultural matter, it is matter of genetics. Heredity. Which is not the same thing at all as culture.

    And there is no evidence that milk fat is handled differently by the body by these populations. It is lactose that is the issue. Lactose is a sugar, not a fat.
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  62. #162  
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I had butter tonight.

    Gonna die.

    "they" now tell us that natural fats such as butter (in moderation) are good for us.....

    But there is significant debate about dairy in general.
    I have no proof, but I think grown ups should not drink milk, I think after the baby is weened milk becomes a clogging agent. Please do not crucify me it is just my opinion.
    The trouble is, Stargate, that from a science perspective, which is what we have here, your remark is an unscientific one. A "clogging agent" has no meaning in the context of diet.

    What we do know is that while children can digest milk, the ability of adults to digest the lactose in milk varies, genetically. In some populations the ability to do so is progressively lost as the child grows to adulthood. It is suggested that populations in parts of the world where grazing animals were domesticated early may have found a survival advantage in being to continue to process lactose through into adulthood, while for other populations there was no such advantage.

    Most people of European or Middle Eastern origin can process lactose. So for them milk is a perfectly good source of food, long after weaning [note the spelling] and not a "clogging agent", whatever you mean by that.

    There is more about this here: Lactose intolerance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Well, I do agree with you that different cultures will show different results. As I said before my input was not scientific. I do thank you for the correction with my spelling.

    I meant clogging agent as an agent that clogs the cell tissues with fat. Remember now, other cultures have different results.
    Yes that objectively speaking is not really true.

    While full fat milk has an amount of fat in it, it has less than in a lot of other foods we eat quite happily. And of course skimmed milk has little or none. Milk also contains a good deal of proteins and minerals (Ca especially) that make it a very valuable and nutritious foodstuff.

    The fact that populations of people have differing ability to process lactose is not a cultural matter, it is matter of genetics. Heredity. Which is not the same thing at all as culture.

    And there is no evidence that milk fat is handled differently by the body by these populations. It is lactose that is the issue. Lactose is a sugar, not a fat.
    I think you are mixing them up. I know there are nutritious value to milk, I am saying when it is used out of term it changes from one state to another. Babies are equipt to digest milk although I think cows milk is to strong, however they are able to ward of the fat better than grown ups do. I had taken it for granted that lactose is a part of milk, did I go wrong somewhere?

    This part I am sure of, different foods have different effects on people bodies and it can be observed in different ways by different cultures.
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  63. #163  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    I think you are mixing them up. I know there are nutritious value to milk, I am saying when it is used out of term it changes from one state to another. Babies are equipt to digest milk although I think cows milk is to strong, however they are able to ward of the fat better than grown ups do. I had taken it for granted that lactose is a part of milk, did I go wrong somewhere?

    This part I am sure of, different foods have different effects on people bodies and it can be observed in different ways by different cultures.
    Yes you did go wrong, in several respects.

    1) Milk does not change from one state to another depending on whether it is consumed by a chid or an adult. I have explained to you why there can in some cases be a difference, due to lactose digestion.

    2) Fat and sugar are not the same. The digestion issue is from the sugar in milk, not the fat.

    3) The idea of babies "warding off the fat" has no scientific basis.

    4) There is nothing culturally dependent about the scientific observations I mentioned.
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  64. #164  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I had butter tonight.

    Gonna die.

    "they" now tell us that natural fats such as butter (in moderation) are good for us.....

    But there is significant debate about dairy in general.
    I have no proof, but I think grown ups should not drink milk, I think after the baby is weened milk becomes a clogging agent. Please do not crucify me it is just my opinion.
    The trouble is, Stargate, that from a science perspective, which is what we have here, your remark is an unscientific one. A "clogging agent" has no meaning in the context of diet.

    What we do know is that while children can digest milk, the ability of adults to digest the lactose in milk varies, genetically. In some populations the ability to do so is progressively lost as the child grows to adulthood. It is suggested that populations in parts of the world where grazing animals were domesticated early may have found a survival advantage in being to continue to process lactose through into adulthood, while for other populations there was no such advantage.

    Most people of European or Middle Eastern origin can process lactose. So for them milk is a perfectly good source of food, long after weaning [note the spelling] and not a "clogging agent", whatever you mean by that.

    There is more about this here: Lactose intolerance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Well, I do agree with you that different cultures will show different results. As I said before my input was not scientific. I do thank you for the correction with my spelling.

    I meant clogging agent as an agent that clogs the cell tissues with fat. Remember now, other cultures have different results.
    Yes that objectively speaking is not really true.

    While full fat milk has an amount of fat in it, it has less than in a lot of other foods we eat quite happily. And of course skimmed milk has little or none. Milk also contains a good deal of proteins and minerals (Ca especially) that make it a very valuable and nutritious foodstuff.

    The fact that populations of people have differing ability to process lactose is not a cultural matter, it is matter of genetics. Heredity. Which is not the same thing at all as culture.

    And there is no evidence that milk fat is handled differently by the body by these populations. It is lactose that is the issue. Lactose is a sugar, not a fat.
    I think you are mixing them up. I know there are nutritious value to milk, I am saying when it is used out of term it changes from one state to another. Babies are equipt to digest milk although I think cows milk is to strong, however they are able to ward of the fat better than grown ups do. I had taken it for granted that lactose is a part of milk, did I go wrong somewhere?

    This part I am sure of, different foods have different effects on people bodies and it can be observed in different ways by different cultures.
    But what he is saying is that the variable here is lactose, not anything else in the milk. It is the lactose that varies from body to body. Sure, some bodies have less trouble with the milk's fat, but those people would have less trouble with fat in general in that case. The fat in milk isn't significantly different from any other fat.
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  65. #165  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I had butter tonight.

    Gonna die.


    "they" now tell us that natural fats such as butter (in moderation) are good for us.....

    But there is significant debate about dairy in general.
    I have no proof, but I think grown ups should not drink milk, I think after the baby is weened milk becomes a clogging agent. Please do not crucify me it is just my opinion.
    The trouble is, Stargate, that from a science perspective, which is what we have here, your remark is an unscientific one. A "clogging agent" has no meaning in the context of diet.

    What we do know is that while children can digest milk, the ability of adults to digest the lactose in milk varies, genetically. In some populations the ability to do so is progressively lost as the child grows to adulthood. It is suggested that populations in parts of the world where grazing animals were domesticated early may have found a survival advantage in being to continue to process lactose through into adulthood, while for other populations there was no such advantage.

    Most people of European or Middle Eastern origin can process lactose. So for them milk is a perfectly good source of food, long after weaning [note the spelling] and not a "clogging agent", whatever you mean by that.

    There is more about this here: Lactose intolerance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Well, I do agree with you that different cultures will show different results. As I said before my input was not scientific. I do thank you for the correction with my spelling.

    I meant clogging agent as an agent that clogs the cell tissues with fat. Remember now, other cultures have different results.
    Yes that objectively speaking is not really true.

    While full fat milk has an amount of fat in it, it has less than in a lot of other foods we eat quite happily. And of course skimmed milk has little or none. Milk also contains a good deal of proteins and minerals (Ca especially) that make it a very valuable and nutritious foodstuff.

    The fact that populations of people have differing ability to process lactose is not a cultural matter, it is matter of genetics. Heredity. Which is not the same thing at all as culture.

    And there is no evidence that milk fat is handled differently by the body by these populations. It is lactose that is the issue. Lactose is a sugar, not a fat.
    I think you are mixing them up. I know there are nutritious value to milk, I am saying when it is used out of term it changes from one state to another. Babies are equipt to digest milk although I think cows milk is to strong, however they are able to ward of the fat better than grown ups do. I had taken it for granted that lactose is a part of milk, did I go wrong somewhere?

    This part I am sure of, different foods have different effects on people bodies and it can be observed in different ways by different cultures.
    But what he is saying is that the variable here is lactose, not anything else in the milk. It is the lactose that varies from body to body. Sure, some bodies have less trouble with the milk's fat, but those people would have less trouble with fat in general in that case. The fat in milk isn't significantly different from any other fat.
    Maybe my mistake is that I am looking at milk as a totality with lactose and all the other ingredients. However be that true some babies digest lactose better than others.
    There are some people who cannot digest lactose and do not have much of a problem with fat.
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  66. #166  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Good morning Stargate and other responders.

    I am pleased to see that the tone of these exchanges is more educational. The problem with some of your comments and opinions, Stargate, is that you are using words and terms that are not precise as to their meaning. Conversationally, I get your drift (meaning) but in order to facilitate a dialogue in a science sub-forum, one needs to use words specific to their meaning.

    This sentence, as example:

    Originally by Stargate:

    This part I am sure of, different foods have different effects on people bodies and it can be observed in different ways by different cultures.
    1. This part I am sure of, - What makes you so sure? What evidence can you reference?
    2. ...different foods have different effects on peoples bodies... - Examples of foods and effects, references for same
    3. ...and it can be observed in different ways... - Provide examples of these different ways.
    4. ...by different cultures. - 'Culture' is not the correct word for this context.

    Full Definition of CULTURE

    1
    : cultivation, tillage

    2
    : the act of developing the intellectual and moral faculties especially by education

    3
    : expert care and training <beauty culture>

    4
    a : enlightenment and excellence of taste acquired by intellectual and aesthetic training
    b : acquaintance with and taste in fine arts, humanities, and broad aspects of science as distinguished from vocational and technical skills

    5
    a : the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations
    b : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time <popular culture> <southern culture>
    c : the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organization <a corporate culture focused on the bottom line>
    d : the set of values, conventions, or social practices associated with a particular field, activity, or societal characteristic <studying the effect of computers on print culture> <changing the culture of materialism will take time — Peggy O'Mara>

    6
    : the act or process of cultivating living material (as bacteria or viruses) in prepared nutrient media; also : a product of such cultivation
    Culture - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

    Even when you use words correctly and precisely, you will encounter a wide range of responses on most topics, especially the topic of nutrition. Food and water are resources needed by all living things and the politics and profit surrounding who controls the food chain have been questioned by many. As my examples, I cite the recent propositions regarding the labeling of all foods that contain genetically modified ingredients and the controversy this has raised.

    California Proposition 37 (2012) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  67. #167  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Maybe my mistake is that I am looking at milk as a totality with lactose and all the other ingredients. However be that true some babies digest lactose better than others.
    There are some people who cannot digest lactose and do not have much of a problem with fat.
    I've been wondering if you guys know how to trim your quoted posts down or are just being lazy? The screen shot below might be of help if you don't know. Just highlight and delete the dup stuff we've already read many times. When I have to scroll down 3 or more pages for a single post over and over again I want to give up on the topic even if I find it interesting. I'm betting I'm not the only one that feels this way.

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  68. #168  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Good morning Stargate and other responders.

    I am pleased to see that the tone of these exchanges is more educational. The problem with some of your comments and opinions, Stargate, is that you are using words and terms that are not precise as to their meaning. Conversationally, I get your drift (meaning) but in order to facilitate a dialogue in a science sub-forum, one needs to use words specific to their meaning.

    This sentence, as example:

    Originally by Stargate:

    This part I am sure of, different foods have different effects on people bodies and it can be observed in different ways by different cultures.
    1. This part I am sure of, - What makes you so sure? What evidence can you reference?
    2. ...different foods have different effects on peoples bodies... - Examples of foods and effects, references for same
    3. ...and it can be observed in different ways... - Provide examples of these different ways.
    4. ...by different cultures. - 'Culture' is not the correct word for this context.

    Full Definition of CULTURE

    1
    : cultivation, tillage

    2
    : the act of developing the intellectual and moral faculties especially by education

    3
    : expert care and training <beauty culture>

    4
    a : enlightenment and excellence of taste acquired by intellectual and aesthetic training
    b : acquaintance with and taste in fine arts, humanities, and broad aspects of science as distinguished from vocational and technical skills

    5
    a : the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations
    b : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time <popular culture> <southern culture>
    c : the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organization <a corporate culture focused on the bottom line>
    d : the set of values, conventions, or social practices associated with a particular field, activity, or societal characteristic <studying the effect of computers on print culture> <changing the culture of materialism will take time — Peggy O'Mara>

    6
    : the act or process of cultivating living material (as bacteria or viruses) in prepared nutrient media; also : a product of such cultivation
    Culture - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

    Even when you use words correctly and precisely, you will encounter a wide range of responses on most topics, especially the topic of nutrition. Food and water are resources needed by all living things and the politics and profit surrounding who controls the food chain have been questioned by many. As my examples, I cite the recent propositions regarding the labeling of all foods that contain genetically modified ingredients and the controversy this has raised.

    California Proposition 37 (2012) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    You see Scher, I admire the way you deal with things and me in particular. I have already told you, I learn quite a lot from you because you have communication skills, you at least tell me what I do wrong and give me the opportunity to correct myself. I am not claiming I use the right words. I did not learn English in the school as I did German, I think I do much better in Tri, I can take correction especially from someone like you because you pay attention and read between the line, even when it is difficult. I cannot stomach people who take it upon themselves to put other people down I cannot learn from them, sorry.

    So Madam, I congratulate you on your skill, and praise you on your effort to educate, and also thank you for the correction.
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  69. #169  
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    Thank you, Stargate. I have tried the patience of many to get to this stage in my journey.

    I did not realize (or perhaps had forgotten) that English was a second language for you. You certainly are better able to communicate in English conversationally than many persons for whom it is their native language. I could not hope to do more than ask for food, lodging and directions to the lavatory in German and I would have to struggle with that.
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  70. #170  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Maybe my mistake is that I am looking at milk as a totality with lactose and all the other ingredients. However be that true some babies digest lactose better than others.
    There are some people who cannot digest lactose and do not have much of a problem with fat.
    Yes indeed, milk is, not surprisingly, a complex mixture as it is a total food source for the infant human - or cow or sheep. And we are able to isolate how its various ingredients are handled in the body.
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  71. #171  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Thank you, Stargate. I have tried the patience of many to get to this stage in my journey.

    I did not realize (or perhaps had forgotten) that English was a second language for you. You certainly are better able to communicate in English conversationally than many persons for whom it is their native language. I could not hope to do more than ask for food, lodging and directions to the lavatory in German and I would have to struggle with that.
    Thank you madam, and may I tell you, I have enjoyed you and Wegs quite a lot because you two do not follow anyone's prompt. I really love the way you think and express yourself, and most of all your tolerance level. If you are not a scientist you could be a very good one because the biggest part of teaching is to be able to communicate. If I left the forum I would miss your input, trust me on that.
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  72. #172  
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    Longer Life For Milk Drinkers, Study Suggests -- ScienceDaily

    On milk.
    The reference above is to a scientific study that shows that those who drink more milk, on average, live longer. So, I think that those who think milk is bad for you, are simply not correct.
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  73. #173  
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    Longer Life For Milk Drinkers, Study Suggests -- ScienceDaily

    On milk.
    The reference above is to a scientific study that shows that those who drink more milk, on average, live longer. So, I think that those who think milk is bad for you, are simply not correct.
    I do not drink milk as a beverage but I use cream in coffee and tea and I use butter in my cooking. Recently, I made sour cream from cream, a bit of organic yogurt and lemon juice because I do not want to ingest 'modified milk ingredients' and other additives and every commercial sour cream I examined has many things in it to improve shelf life and retain texture for this duration.

    My thoughts are that milk is probably fine for those who enjoy it and can digest lactose and that many of the adverse reactions may be related to these other ingredients which have not been scrutinized as closely.

    I have lost confidence in the much of what the scientific community endorses as it changes on a regular basis and people vary widely in their individual tolerances. I evaluate my diet on how it makes me feel overall. If it maintains my health and energy without deleterious effects on my digestion or weight, then it can stay on the menu.
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  74. #174  
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    Scheherazade

    I am not telling anyone that he/she should drink milk. My point is simply that the evidence is against those who think it is bad for them. That does not necessarily apply to other dairy products, of course, and I am inclined to think that anything with too much saturated fat should be consumed in small quantities only.
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  75. #175  
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    Scheherazade

    I am not telling anyone that he/she should drink milk. My point is simply that the evidence is against those who think it is bad for them. That does not necessarily apply to other dairy products, of course, and I am inclined to think that anything with too much saturated fat should be consumed in small quantities only.
    I recognize that you are not 'endorsing' either position, skeptic.

    My point is that the 'evidence' is frequently changing, hence I pay it less attention than I used to. The history of where eggs stand on the healthy nutrition scale, and the changing face of the food pyramid come to mind.

    Originally, there were seven food groups. Note that butter is one of the groups.




    Not long ago, we had grains as the base of the pyramid.




    More recently, the US has moved to a plate visualization.



    Dietary Guidelines

    The Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion in the USDA and the United States Department of Health and Human Services jointly release a longer textual document called Dietary Guidelines for Americans, updated in 2010 with the next scheduled revision in 2015.[12] The first edition was published in 1980, and since 1985 has been updated every five years by the Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee.[13] Like the USDA Food Pyramid, these guidelines have been criticized as being overly influenced by the agriculture industry.
    History of USDA nutrition guides - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The 'politically correct' way of eating would seem to be decided by the politics of the day and whoever is funding the studies and has the ear of the policy makers, in my opinion.
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  76. #176  
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    I would be more inclined to say it reflects the changing nature of the science of nutrition.
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  77. #177  
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    I would be more inclined to say it reflects the changing nature of the science of nutrition.
    Not to mention the oversimplifications and exaggeration of journalists trying to fill the paper or news bulletin on a slow news day……...
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  78. #178  
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    I can't eat lettuce. I love it.....but 36 hours of misery isn't worth it.

    We all have things that our bodies don't like.

    I love spicy....makes me sick, literally....very mild....is ok.

    I love that we are different.

    Wouldn't we be pretty darn boring if we were all the same?
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  79. #179  
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    I would be more inclined to say it reflects the changing nature of the science of nutrition.
    I can't find it now, must be misremembering which program I saw it on, but there was a good item on teev a while ago about how different countries have different recommendations. All I now remember was that there was a strong reference to food culture of various countries. The gist of it was that the proportion of vegetables in all diets should be higher , but the Brits were still recommending a total of 5 portions of fruit and veg per person per day. The Australian recommendation is for 5 veg portions and 2 fruit portions. And other countries have different schemes entirely.

    Seeing as it takes just one large potato to make two "portions" of veg, and one large banana is two "portions" of fruit, I'm a bit mystified as to how and why recommending 7 or more total portions of fruit and veg should be so difficult. But apparently the Brits thought people would ignore the recommendations entirely if they went to a total of more than 5 portions.
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  80. #180  
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    Let me again repeat something I said before.

    Being fat, or even mildly obese is not a health problem. We get health problems from other causes, such as being physically unfit, or eating the wrong food.

    If a person is fat, then he or she needs to care good care with his/her health. That means eating a good balanced diet, and getting sufficient exercise. A fat person who does that will be just as healthy, and live just as long (if not longer) than a normally weighted or underweight person.

    If you want to talk to a fat person, I strongly suggest that you keep their weight off the conversational agenda, but you might be doing them a favour if you discuss a healthy, balanced diet, and proper exercise.
    This is true, but then a thin person can have higher cholestrol and other items. Being fat doesn't mean one is less healthy per se.
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  81. #181  
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    I would be more inclined to say it reflects the changing nature of the science of nutrition.
    I can't find it now, must be misremembering which program I saw it on, but there was a good item on teev a while ago about how different countries have different recommendations. All I now remember was that there was a strong reference to food culture of various countries. The gist of it was that the proportion of vegetables in all diets should be higher , but the Brits were still recommending a total of 5 portions of fruit and veg per person per day. The Australian recommendation is for 5 veg portions and 2 fruit portions. And other countries have different schemes entirely.

    Seeing as it takes just one large potato to make two "portions" of veg, and one large banana is two "portions" of fruit, I'm a bit mystified as to how and why recommending 7 or more total portions of fruit and veg should be so difficult. But apparently the Brits thought people would ignore the recommendations entirely if they went to a total of more than 5 portions.
    ….or two in the case of the Scots…..

    One of their Nationalist ministers has recently argued that an independent Scotland would be able to afford to support its state old age pension scheme because the Scots don't live as long as those in the rest of the UK.
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  82. #182  
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    And other countries have different schemes entirely.
    Where I'm from we partake of the six major food groups: fat, salt, sugar, alcohol, caffeine, and nicotine. And "moderation" is a dirty word.
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  83. #183  
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    I would be more inclined to say it reflects the changing nature of the science of nutrition.
    I can't find it now, must be misremembering which program I saw it on, but there was a good item on teev a while ago about how different countries have different recommendations. All I now remember was that there was a strong reference to food culture of various countries. The gist of it was that the proportion of vegetables in all diets should be higher , but the Brits were still recommending a total of 5 portions of fruit and veg per person per day. The Australian recommendation is for 5 veg portions and 2 fruit portions. And other countries have different schemes entirely.

    Seeing as it takes just one large potato to make two "portions" of veg, and one large banana is two "portions" of fruit, I'm a bit mystified as to how and why recommending 7 or more total portions of fruit and veg should be so difficult. But apparently the Brits thought people would ignore the recommendations entirely if they went to a total of more than 5 portions.
    This is why I believe in supplements, you can get more than the recommended daily minimums of what you eat fruits and vegetables for. It doesn't stop you from eating all the fruits and vegetables you want, but it does guarantee your body will get what it needs every day. Below is a link to my personal favorite as I can add it to my bottled water with a little Tang or powered lemonade to improve the taste and it goes down better than taking a half dozen horse capsules.


    Life Extension Mix™ Powder

    Life Extension Mix
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  84. #184  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    I would be more inclined to say it reflects the changing nature of the science of nutrition.
    I can't find it now, must be misremembering which program I saw it on, but there was a good item on teev a while ago about how different countries have different recommendations. All I now remember was that there was a strong reference to food culture of various countries. The gist of it was that the proportion of vegetables in all diets should be higher , but the Brits were still recommending a total of 5 portions of fruit and veg per person per day. The Australian recommendation is for 5 veg portions and 2 fruit portions. And other countries have different schemes entirely.

    Seeing as it takes just one large potato to make two "portions" of veg, and one large banana is two "portions" of fruit, I'm a bit mystified as to how and why recommending 7 or more total portions of fruit and veg should be so difficult. But apparently the Brits thought people would ignore the recommendations entirely if they went to a total of more than 5 portions.
    This is why I believe in supplements, you can get more than the recommended daily minimums of what you eat fruits and vegetables for. It doesn't stop you from eating all the fruits and vegetables you want, but it does guarantee your body will get what it needs every day. Below is a link to my personal favorite as I can add it to my bottled water with a little Tang or powered lemonade to improve the taste and it goes down better than taking a half dozen horse capsules.


    Life Extension Mix™ Powder

    Life Extension Mix
    How unnecessary.
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  85. #185  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post

    This is why I believe in supplements, you can get more than the recommended daily minimums of what you eat fruits and vegetables for. It doesn't stop you from eating all the fruits and vegetables you want, but it does guarantee your body will get what it needs every day. Below is a link to my personal favorite as I can add it to my bottled water with a little Tang or powered lemonade to improve the taste and it goes down better than taking a half dozen horse capsules.
    You should try giving horse capsules to a horse, in cold weather no less, as I had to do on one occasion for a horse that was boarding here and managed to injure itself by pawing, half pulling a shoe, and then nicking itself with the loose shoe.

    I am the master of dissolving tablets in molasses and using a large syringe.
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  86. #186  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post

    This is why I believe in supplements, you can get more than the recommended daily minimums of what you eat fruits and vegetables for. It doesn't stop you from eating all the fruits and vegetables you want, but it does guarantee your body will get what it needs every day. Below is a link to my personal favorite as I can add it to my bottled water with a little Tang or powered lemonade to improve the taste and it goes down better than taking a half dozen horse capsules.
    You should try giving horse capsules to a horse, in cold weather no less, as I had to do on one occasion for a horse that was boarding here and managed to injure itself by pawing, half pulling a shoe, and then nicking itself with the loose shoe.

    I am the master of dissolving tablets in molasses and using a large syringe.
    I'm thinking I'm glad not to be a horse.

    To exchemist

    Maybe and maybe not, I prefer to error on the side that does not leave my body short changed on some nutrient that it might really need. Also, there are nutrients that work best only when their serum blood level is maintained within an optimal range. Do you know what any of your important blood levels are or even what the optimal range of each might be?

    I'd say you do not, because the government and insurance companies haven't considered it important enough to require testing for them. One example of this would be vitamin D. The most current thinking is that 80% of the US population is below 49.0 ng/mL which is considered lower than optimum of 50.0 to 80.0 ng/mL, and of that 80%, about 30% is below 30.0 ng/mL which is considered dangerous. I have read where if all the people were in the optimum range the US would save several billions in yearly medical cost. Vitamin D is very cheap and with a little education and some testing we'd have a very much healthier population.
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  87. #187  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Bad Robot;568872]
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post

    This is why I believe in supplements, you can get more than the recommended daily minimums of what you eat fruits and vegetables for. It doesn't stop you from eating all the fruits and vegetables you want, but it does guarantee your body will get what it needs every day. Below is a link to my personal favorite as I can add it to my bottled water with a little Tang or powered lemonade to improve the taste and it goes down better than taking a half dozen horse capsules.
    You should try giving horse capsules to a horse, in cold weather no less, as I had to do on one occasion for a horse that was boarding here and managed to injure itself by pawing, half pulling a shoe, and then nicking itself with the loose shoe.

    I am the master of dissolving tablets in molasses and using a large syringe.
    I'm thinking I'm glad not to be a horse.

    I don't know...You might be the kind of fellow who enjoys restraint if it comes with sweets.
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    When overweight male body produces little testosterone.
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