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About LinkBacksWhat other treatment options are available for bacterial infections, when antibiotics prove ineffective?
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February 12th, 2014, 07:16 AM
What other treatment options are available for bacterial infections, when antibiotics prove ineffective?
For bacterial infections if one antibiotic proves ineffective usually doctors try another one. Meanwhile, they would also be trying "supportive therapies" such as bed rest, vitamins, respiratory inhalations to maintain good oxygenation, possibly Oxygen therapy or even respiratory support. No, homeopathic remedies, various herbal and ancient orientel cures would not be used because there is no evidence any of these thing work at all.
Originally Posted by Curiosity
Member Sealeaf has offered a good answer, yet I would like to add two more options that are still in the experimental phase:
Super E. coli to the rescue.
New Antibiotics?
If it is an infection like a wound one other treatment is packing the wound with sugar. Sugar is surpisingly effective as a topical antibiotic if you can keep it in place at a high concentration.
A controlled model of moist wound heal... [J Exp Pathol (Oxford). 1990] - PubMed - NCBI
In addition to this, viruses (bacteriophages) have been shown to be a potential option for treating bacterial infections.
Member Sealeaf has offered a good answer, yet I would like to add two more options that are still in the experimental phase:
Super E. coli to the rescue.
New Antibiotics?
New Viruses To Treat Bacterial Diseases: 'My Enemies' Enemy Is My Friend' -- ScienceDaily
Could phage therapy also be effective against non-gastrointestinal bacterial infections?
Could it not be so that the H2O2 (0.15% v/w) in the sugar paste caused the antiseptic property?
Last edited by Cogito Ergo Sum; February 12th, 2014 at 12:46 PM.
I would guess so, but I must admit that I have not read much about the approach. I can't think of any immediate reasons why it wouldn't be. I would expect it would also be much more specific than antibiotics, sparing a person's normal flora.
Could phage therapy also be effective against non-gastrointestinal bacterial infections?
I'm just curious, because I've had a chronic bacterial infection in my throat (for months), I've been placed on about 3-4 antibiotics and the pattern is always the same. I get no results after 2-3 days, then near the end of the course, the bacteria surges back ( I make this conclusion due to the reduction in mucus production, then it increases back to levels that were present before the antibiotics course). Kinda weird that so many courses just haven't worked, what infection could be so damn heavy, that it just doesn't go away?! GAHHHHH!
Possibly both the peroxides and the dessication work together, it does not have to be just one or the other.
Honey works too and there is a paper from the Asian Pacific Journal of Medicine that mentions the peroxides as well as the different levels of effectiveness.
Honey: its medicinal property and antibacterial activity
May I ask what they identified the bacteria as?
The test results I got back simply stated it was heavy growth of upper respiratory tract flora, no pathogens isolated.
Hope you get better soon. Does gargling with salty water help at all?
I've been gargling with listerine, kinda figured it would work just as well. Helped at first, now no effect.
new toothbrush?
Gargling with Listerine? With the kind of persistent problem you're suffering from, I'd go with twice or more daily gargles with saline solution. Seeing as this is certainly persistent and might be a bit serious, I'd also be inclined to buy medical grade saline from a pharmacy rather than making at home. You'd also be well advised to get one of those simple saline nasal sprays or drops (I hate using drops so I only ever get spray). If whatever problem you have is in your throat, you can bet anything you like that it's all through the nasal and sinus area as well.
I wouldn't recommend the sinus "washing" procedure unless someone was absolutely sure that was the problem. It's ghastly and it doesn't work with just one go, it has to be done twice a day for several days to be sure you've dealt with it. (Don't look at this if you're easily made a bit squeamish Nasal irrigation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
You say you're in Melbourne. That's a pretty arid environment in summer so regularly using a saline nasal spray might be helpful.
One little side note. Recurring or persistent sinus / ENT infections can be a sign of a less than wonderful immune system. It's very often the first sign of underlying hormone/endocrine problems like an underactive thyroid. If you haven't had a blood test for that, it might be worth getting checked out at your next check up. (I once asked my doctor what on earth the connection could possibly be between thyroid deficiency and sinus infections. She said that the only connection was that sinus/ENT infections were the most common bacterial infections a GP sees in the first place - most are viral as a general rule. So if a person has a weakened immune system as people with hypothyroidism do, that's most likely to show up in frequent or persistent ENT infections.)
I did that terrible sinus 'washing' a few times. I've also used a nasal spray, it had no effect. It seems completely isolated in my throat, I've had no blocked nose or impairment to taste at all. No effect on breathing either, went to a regular Doctor a few times, every time my breathing was fine. Will try the saline solution gargle though, thanks.
I am not a doctor.
Some other simple things that should not do any harm are gargling with a 3% peroxide solution and getting a new toothbrush (or boiling the one you have) to prevent reinfecting yourself. (do not use hair bleach, it is too strong unless you dilute it properly)
Maybe you should consider stopping the mouthwash for a while because sometimes it can wipe out the bacteria that prevent Thrush or other yeast infections from getting a hold.
If your doctors were looking for a bacteria as the cause they might have overlooked the possibility it is a fungus and there are a few of them that could give what you describe. They are not usually treated because your body usually gets over them all by itself.
Remember though that I am not a doctor in any sense of the word and that if you die from following my advice it is not my fault in any way that anybody could possibly percieve no matter how insane or expensive of a lawyer they are.
Wait, doesn't the fact that the test results say heavy growth of flora, mean it's a fungal infection? 0.o
No. "Gut flora" refers to the assemblage of bacteria in the gut. "Mouth flora" (or throat or sinus ditto) means the assemblage of bacteria there.
Oh :P
Couldn't It be possible to put a person in a dialysis machine and run the blood through it and transfuse that blood back into that person but having a infrared light in the machine to treat the blood as it travels through it thereby killing the bacteria. Bacteria die at 120 degrees.
At What Temperature Does Bacteria Die?
In general, bacterial cells die when they are exposed to a temperature of 70å¡C for at least 15 seconds. In other cases, such as those for spores, the bacteria needs to be treated at a temperature of 120å¡C for at least 30 minutes in order to die. Bacteria can live in extremes of temperatures and each species have specifications for treatment in order to be killed. Reference: www.ilri.org
I believe this has been discussed before here, and I'm still going to go with: no, not likely. Your red cells would hemolyze at that temperature and you would die.
Hyperthermia has been tried for various infections, shown to be ineffective and hazardous, and there is really no scientific basis for it to work. Temperatures that would kill most of the really nasty bacteria would also denature serum proteins and damage the blood cells. Trying to separate out the serum only, on such a large scale basis, is currently impractical and dangerous. It is done in small amounts to reduce certain autoantibodies in certain self-limited diseases (Guillian Barre, for one). The procedure is called plasmapheresis, which has some other uses. Dialysis is very hard on the body, the massive shifts in fluid volume causing strain on the heart. It is also costly, and the costs would be enormous for infections, considering how common serious infections are. Unfortunately, antibiotics, even dangerous ones, are still the most practical treatments available.
Clarissa
Bring on the nanobots >
I keep trying even though at times forget.I believe this has been discussed before here, and I'm still going to go with: no, not likely. Your red cells would hemolyze at that temperature and you would die.
I want to suggest that maybe we are forgetting that everything primarily comes from the plant world. I will guarantee, that there are endless plants that work better than unnatural chemically based ones. When everything else fails, plants will be there.
Citation needed.
So...what compels these plants to make better antibiotics than our brains ever could?I want to suggest that maybe we are forgetting that everything primarily comes from the plant world. I will guarantee, that there are endless plants that work better than unnatural chemically based ones. When everything else fails, plants will be there.
Is no thread safe? *rolls eyes*
I want to suggest that maybe we are forgetting that everything primarily comes from the plant world. I will guarantee, that there are endless plants that work better than unnatural chemically based ones. When everything else fails, plants will be there.
http://img33.glitterfy.com/12117/gli...958T831D30.gif
I do not know, it might be just adaptation.So...what compels these plants to make better antibiotics than our brains ever could?I want to suggest that maybe we are forgetting that everything primarily comes from the plant world. I will guarantee, that there are endless plants that work better than unnatural chemically based ones. When everything else fails, plants will be there.
Or some crap you swallowed from somewhere (trusted elder, witch, infomercial, pseudoscience web site) but never applied a skeptical eye towards.
While there are certainly many modern pharma which derive from plants, it's still generally better to take a couple aspirin which is a controlled safety checked dose than boil up some willow twigs into a tea (though I'd do it in a survival situation) which you'll an unknown dose along with other possible effects that aren't so good (a stomach ache from the acids for starters).
My advice to Curiosity is to try another doctor. If the problem cannot be fixed with his therapies, maybe he has got something wrong. In fact, I would try to see a specialist. Say an Ear, Nose and Throat specialist. Get the tests re-done. Make damn sure you know what the problem is.
Just on the earlier suggestion of a sugar solution. Yes, but not for the throat. An old remedy was honey. This has to be applied to the site of the infection, and only works in direct contact. There are two reasons it works.
1. It uses osmosis to dehydrate bacteria, and thus kill them.
2. Bees add a preservative to honey, which also kills bacteria.
If you can get hold of it, manuka honey works even better than other honeys. The reason is that the manuka tree has, in its nectar, a chemical that acts as a bacteria killer. But again, it only works in direct physical contact with the infected site.
Honeys have been used very successfully as poultices in contact with infected wounds or ulcers.
I have been on another thread where medical advice was asked for.
John Galt tried pointing out that the only answer should be to go see a doctor.
When that was ignored he shut the thread.
Will look for a specialist, sounds like a plan.
A few things worth noting.I have been on another thread where medical advice was asked for.
John Galt tried pointing out that the only answer should be to go see a doctor.
When that was ignored he shut the thread.
On this thread it's quite obvious the person has been seeing a doctor, otherwise there would have been no antibiotic prescriptions in the first place.
And the person has a professional medical diagnosis even though it's turned out a bit unsatisfactory with unsuccessful treatment.
This person is not resisting the idea of seeing a doctor as some others do.
Feeling pain in the throat could be residual damage from the recent attack at your mucous membranes. It could also be that your nerve endings have been affected and transmit pain unwittingly. Have you still got swelling in your throat, redness, maybe holes in the membrane of your throat?
Sometimes the best thing you could do is absolutely nothing at all. Saline could dissolve the membrane that was supposed to protect you. Only use it to wash away excess bacteria. You can't wash them away when the membrane is barely there. In short, the gargling doesn't work anymore because your throat no longer has mucus protecting it. You should try drinking glycoproteins, sugar and norrit in a mix, wait a few hours, then gargle with saline. This should build up the mucus, then wash it out.
For those who wish to read more about this:
Kwakman, P.H.S. et al. (2011), "Two Major Medicinal Honeys Have Different Mechanisms of Bactericidal Activity", PLoS One 6(3)
For those who do not wish to read an entire paper:
"We therefore assessed the rapid and slow bactericidal activity of RS [Revamil Source] and manuka honey, i.e. the activity after 2 and 24 hours of incubation, respectively. RS honey had much more potent rapid activity than manuka honey against B. subtilis [food-spoiling bacterium], E. coli and P. aeruginosa [both wound pathogens]. Both RS and manuka honey lacked rapid activity against MRSA. With respect to slow bactericidal activity, manuka honey was more potent than RS honey, most notably against MRSA and B. subtilis. (...)
The main conclusion is that these honeys exert bactericidal activity through entirely different sets of compounds, resulting in distinct bactericidal properties. MGO [methylglyoxal] contributed substantially to the activity of manuka honey against S. aureus and B. subtilis but not against E. coli and P. aeruginosa. The activity against these latter bacteria involved compounds other than MGO including as yet unidentified cationic and non-cationic compounds."
Notes between square brackets and bold added by me.
Actually, the only problem I face from this, Zwolver, is excess mucus. It's constantly building up in my throat, it's annoying and makes it harder to sleep at night.
Ok, using salt works then, trying a slight acidic solution might work even better then (bubble water with a lime).
Salt, sugar, honey etc all work as anti-bacterials. Problem is that putting them down the old throat may not aid overall health, and it passes the affected area so quickly that it probably does no good, anyway.
If you are going to insist on applying useless disinfectants via the oral route, why not try neat whisky? It is also a disinfectant, and probably useless, but it makes you feel good!
You can learn to gargle a mixture for a couple of minutes at a time. It's easier if you are, or have been, a singer, but you can learn to do it.it passes the affected area so quickly that it probably does no good, anyway.
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