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Thread: Flu vaccine. Now I'm nagging

  1. #1 Flu vaccine. Now I'm nagging 
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    Nagging begins.

    If you think you don't need a flu vaccination because you are "young" or "healthy" or both - be warned. You may be more likely to be hospitalised or to die from this year's influenza virus if your body is healthy and strong.

    More examples of how influenza still kills – Respectful Insolence

    Note that several of the commenters on that post are medical professionals just as the writer is. There are good reasons why a strong immune system may make the flu more rather than less dangerous.

    If you're not up to date, do it now. Just be aware that you will not be immune for a fortnight or so.


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    Can't you still die from a flu shot?

    An autopsy still has yet to be done on an acquaintance of mine.


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    Doubtful. The big problem with illness after a flu shot is that you could have already been infected with the virus but be asymptomatic - that period can be 10 days or up to a fortnight.

    I certainly haven't heard of any particular problems with any recent versions of the vaccine. afaik people who have problems with other vaccines would also have problems with the flu vaccine but most of those are people with known vulnerabilities in their immune systems or egg allergies.
    Here are the CDC guidelines CDC - Who Should Get Vaccinated Against Influenza | Seasonal Influenza (Flu)

    and their key facts pamphlet. CDC - Key Facts About Seasonal Flu Vaccine | Seasonal Influenza (Flu)
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    My own personal risk assessment would be that I’m more likely to get struck down by a bus on the way to the doctor for a jab, than die of flu this year.

    However, I’m more than willing to reassess my attitude if we’re ever predicted to be hit by another Spanish Flu like back in 1918. The total death toll is sketchy, but apparently the Spanish Flu killed more people than the 1st World War? And that was a time when the world population was only under 2 billion, plus they had inferior transport compared with today’s standards.

    But seriously, a simple consultation with your family doctor here will set you back around 50 euro. So I’m not exactly encouraged!
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  6. #5  
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    if someone's dumb enough to not know that vaccinations are actually a good thing; just ignore them and let them die?
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  7. #6  
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    if someone's dumb enough to not know that vaccinations are actually a good thing; just ignore them and let them die?
    No. Unless they're a hermit living in a cave with no contact of any kind with anyone else.

    The whole purpose of vaccines is for the community as a whole to acquire herd immunity.

    A decision whether to have or not have a vaccination affects yourself and everyone you may contact - and everyone else they may contact. That's why it's so important for health workers to be vaccinated.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    if someone's dumb enough to not know that vaccinations are actually a good thing; just ignore them and let them die?
    No. Unless they're a hermit living in a cave with no contact of any kind with anyone else.

    The whole purpose of vaccines is for the community as a whole to acquire herd immunity.

    A decision whether to have or not have a vaccination affects yourself and everyone you may contact - and everyone else they may contact. That's why it's so important for health workers to be vaccinated.
    haha i guess that's a fair point
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapples View Post
    But seriously, a simple consultation with your family doctor here will set you back around 50 euro. So I’m not exactly encouraged!
    I'm not sure how it works in Ireland, but here you can just stop by your local pharmacy and get the shot for ~$32 or the nasal mist for ~$40. No doctor appointment required.
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  10. #9  
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    hah gotta love the nhs
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    To vaccinate or not to vaccinate ever remains the question. The efficacy of the vaccine has been questioned although it is generally considered to be of value for some groups in society.

    Vaccination

    Main article: Influenza vaccine

    The influenza vaccine is recommended by the World Health Organization and United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for high-risk groups, such as children, the elderly, health care workers, and people who have chronic illnesses such as asthma, diabetes, heart disease, or are immuno-compromised among others.[90][91] In healthy adults it is modestly effective in decreasing the amount of influenza-like symptoms in a population.[92]

    Infection control
    Further information: Influenza prevention
    Reasonably effective ways to reduce the transmission of influenza include good personal health and hygiene habits such as: not touching your eyes, nose or mouth;[109] frequent hand washing (with soap and water, or with alcohol-based hand rubs);[110] covering coughs and sneezes; avoiding close contact with sick people; and staying home yourself if you are sick. Avoiding spitting is also recommended.[111] Although face masks might help prevent transmission when caring for the sick,[112][113] there is mixed evidence on beneficial effects in the community.[111][114] Smoking raises the risk of contracting influenza, as well as producing more severe disease symptoms.[115][116]
    Since influenza spreads through both aerosols and contact with contaminated surfaces, surface sanitizing may help prevent some infections.[117] Alcohol is an effective sanitizer against influenza viruses, while quaternary ammonium compounds can be used with alcohol so that the sanitizing effect lasts for longer.[118] In hospitals, quaternary ammonium compounds and bleach are used to sanitize rooms or equipment that have been occupied by patients with influenza symptoms.[118] At home, this can be done effectively with a diluted chlorine bleach.[119]
    During past pandemics, closing schools, churches and theaters slowed the spread of the virus but did not have a large effect on the overall death rate.[120][121] It is uncertain if reducing public gatherings, by for example closing schools and workplaces, will reduce transmission since people with influenza may just be moved from one area to another; such measures would also be difficult to enforce and might be unpopular.[111] When small numbers of people are infected, isolating the sick might reduce the risk of transmission.[111]
    There is a suggestion that one of the factors that may influence the transmission of influenza is lowered amounts of Vitamin D. Transmission seems to be at it's highest during the seasons when people are avoiding sunlight due to cold weather or the rainy season.

    An alternative hypothesis to explain seasonality in influenza infections is an effect of vitamin D levels on immunity to the virus.[149] This idea was first proposed by Robert Edgar Hope-Simpson in 1965.[150] He proposed that the cause of influenza epidemics during winter may be connected to seasonal fluctuations of vitamin D, which is produced in the skin under the influence of solar (or artificial) UV radiation. This could explain why influenza occurs mostly in winter and during the tropical rainy season, when people stay indoors, away from the sun, and their vitamin D levels fall.
    Many people die from influenza each year and exact numbers are not possible to ascertain because of the similarity to other viral diseases.

    The 1918 flu pandemic (Spanish flu pandemic) was truly global, spreading even to the Arctic and remote Pacific islands. The unusually severe disease killed between 2 and 20% of those infected, as opposed to the more usual flu epidemic mortality rate of 0.1%.[166][174] Another unusual feature of this pandemic was that it mostly killed young adults, with 99% of pandemic influenza deaths occurring in people under 65, and more than half in young adults 20 to 40 years old.[177] This is unusual since influenza is normally most deadly to the very young (under age 2) and the very old (over age 70). The total mortality of the 1918–1919 pandemic is not known, but it is estimated that 2.5% to 5% of the world's population was killed. As many as 25 million may have been killed in the first 25 weeks; in contrast, HIV/AIDS has killed 25 million in its first 25 years.[174]

    Later flu pandemics were not so devastating. They included the 1957 Asian Flu (type A, H2N2 strain) and the 1968 Hong Kong Flu (type A, H3N2 strain), but even these smaller outbreaks killed millions of people. In later pandemics antibiotics were available to control secondary infections and this may have helped reduce mortality compared to the Spanish Flu of 1918.[166
    Wikipedia has a fairly detailed article with an excellent list of references for those who care to do more research on the topic of flu vaccines.

    Influenza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapples View Post
    My own personal risk assessment would be that I’m more likely to get struck down by a bus on the way to the doctor for a jab, than die of flu this year.

    However, I’m more than willing to reassess my attitude if we’re ever predicted to be hit by another Spanish Flu like back in 1918. The total death toll is sketchy, but apparently the Spanish Flu killed more people than the 1st World War? And that was a time when the world population was only under 2 billion, plus they had inferior transport compared with today’s standards.

    But seriously, a simple consultation with your family doctor here will set you back around 50 euro. So I’m not exactly encouraged!
    Well, the high deathrate for young people from H1N1 is almost as serious as the Spanish flu. See all the reports of the deaths of young, healthy people. It's only saving grace is that it's not as transmissible as the 1918 seemed to be, so not as many people are getting it.

    Though most of the H1N1 deaths reported for younger people seem to follow 3 to 7 days of serious illness - whereas my husband's grandfather just dropped dead from the flu - more or less in the street, he was actually in a tram - in 1919 and had not shown any symptoms at all before that.
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapples View Post
    However, I’m more than willing to reassess my attitude if we’re ever predicted to be hit by another Spanish Flu like back in 1918.
    Well, getting a flu shot might just _prevent_ another Spanish Flu-like outbreak, so that's something to add to your decision making process.
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  14. #13  
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    I think my bad attitude is probably more a reflection in common with most people’s lax-a-daisy attitude towards getting a vaccination, otherwise we’d all be getting it. I checked out the price and it looks like I could get a jab for 15 euro at a pharmacy, which isn’t bad. I’ll admit, adelady has me thinking about it so maybe I’ll eventually fold and get it done.

    Saying that, if the experience is anything like giving a little blood for a health check (like I did for the first time in my adult life last month), then I don’t fancy fainting again!
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  15. #14  
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    It's just a little poke in the side of your upper arm. I didn't even feel anything during my last two vaccinations. Also, there is no blood taken
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapples View Post
    I think my bad attitude is probably more a reflection in common with most people’s lax-a-daisy attitude towards getting a vaccination, otherwise we’d all be getting it. I checked out the price and it looks like I could get a jab for 15 euro at a pharmacy, which isn’t bad. I’ll admit, adelady has me thinking about it so maybe I’ll eventually fold and get it done.

    Saying that, if the experience is anything like giving a little blood for a health check (like I did for the first time in my adult life last month), then I don’t fancy fainting again!
    You talk like a person that has never experienced having the flu? One bad experience, and you would have a whole different attitude about being vaccinated. I am now getting a yearly vaccination even though I don't live a lifestyle which puts me close to very many high risk people. Another thing that causes death in infected people is getting pneumonia in their weakened condition. They now have a vaccination for the bacterial pneumonia. I got that one too. I'd rather be safe than sorry
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    You talk like a person that has never experienced having the flu?
    Does a man cold count?
    Man Stroke Woman - Man Cold - YouTube
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapples View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    You talk like a person that has never experienced having the flu?
    Does a man cold count?
    Man Stroke Woman - Man Cold - YouTube
    While colds and flu have similar symptoms, the intensity and duration of flu is what makes a big difference between the two. Also, I've never heard a news broadcast that claimed anyone ever died of a common cold.
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  19. #18  
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    Due to my phobia of needles, I don't get vaccinations. I also don't do blood tests so I have to pay $40 a month on my insurance. I might do the nasal spray, though.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pineapples View Post
    I think my bad attitude is probably more a reflection in common with most people’s lax-a-daisy attitude towards getting a vaccination, otherwise we’d all be getting it. I checked out the price and it looks like I could get a jab for 15 euro at a pharmacy, which isn’t bad. I’ll admit, adelady has me thinking about it so maybe I’ll eventually fold and get it done.

    Saying that, if the experience is anything like giving a little blood for a health check (like I did for the first time in my adult life last month), then I don’t fancy fainting again!
    You talk like a person that has never experienced having the flu? One bad experience, and you would have a whole different attitude about being vaccinated. I am now getting a yearly vaccination even though I don't live a lifestyle which puts me close to very many high risk people. Another thing that causes death in infected people is getting pneumonia in their weakened condition. They now have a vaccination for the bacterial pneumonia. I got that one too. I'd rather be safe than sorry
    I hear you. In my freshman year of high school a schoolmate of mine caught influenza. On Friday, he seemed to have a bad case of the sniffles. When I went back to school on Monday, I was horrified to find out he had developed pneumonia and died. A seemingly healthy 16 year old, in 3 days he went from what seemed like a simple cold to smothering to death as his lungs filled with mucus. A year later I caught what was probably the same strain of influenza. My parents reacted quickly, and had me hospitalized. It was two weeks before I recovered enough for the hospital to release me.

    I distinctly remember that year, as I was a child proud of his academic record, and that illness put me so far behind I received "D"s in two classes, the only "D"s I ever had in 12 years of public school. And ultimately probably kept me from graduating high school as valedictorian. All these years later, it seems almost laughable I was so concerned about my grades, but I quite remember it felt terribly unfair at the time.

    I don't always get an influenza vaccination yearly, but do make sure I get one at least every second year. I have trouble understanding people why people are so dismissive of the value of the vaccine. To me, influenza vaccine is a miracle of modern medicine right up there with penicillin or polio vaccine.

    As part of this post, I tried to research just how many deaths influenza is responsible for on a worldwide basis. What I have found is statistics aren't really kept on influenza death rates. It is apparently just too difficult to isolate victims of influenza from victims of other infectious agents that exhibit similar symptoms. However, statistics are kept on a category called "lower respiratory infections". These are cases where a disease agent gets into the lungs, inflames the tissues, and leads to a dangerous build up of fluid in the lungs. Exactly the symptoms that killed my friend and hit me so hard in my sophomore year. Statistics show that lower respiratory infections are the second leading cause of death in the developing world, second only to AIDS in total deaths caused. In the developed world, lower respiratory infections are counted as only the fourth leading cause of death, but kill more people than any other category of infectious disease.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhanegan View Post
    I hear you. In my freshman year of high school a schoolmate of mine caught influenza. On Friday, he seemed to have a bad case of the sniffles. When I went back to school on Monday, I was horrified to find out he had developed pneumonia and died. A seemingly healthy 16 year old, in 3 days he went from what seemed like a simple cold to smothering to death as his lungs filled with mucus. A year later I caught what was probably the same strain of influenza. My parents reacted quickly, and had me hospitalized. It was two weeks before I recovered enough for the hospital to release me.

    I distinctly remember that year, as I was a child proud of his academic record, and that illness put me so far behind I received "D"s in two classes, the only "D"s I ever had in 12 years of public school. And ultimately probably kept me from graduating high school as valedictorian. All these years later, it seems almost laughable I was so concerned about my grades, but I quite remember it felt terribly unfair at the time.

    I don't always get an influenza vaccination yearly, but do make sure I get one at least every second year. I have trouble understanding people why people are so dismissive of the value of the vaccine. To me, influenza vaccine is a miracle of modern medicine right up there with penicillin or polio vaccine.

    As part of this post, I tried to research just how many deaths influenza is responsible for on a worldwide basis. What I have found is statistics aren't really kept on influenza death rates. It is apparently just too difficult to isolate victims of influenza from victims of other infectious agents that exhibit similar symptoms. However, statistics are kept on a category called "lower respiratory infections". These are cases where a disease agent gets into the lungs, inflames the tissues, and leads to a dangerous build up of fluid in the lungs. Exactly the symptoms that killed my friend and hit me so hard in my sophomore year. Statistics show that lower respiratory infections are the second leading cause of death in the developing world, second only to AIDS in total deaths caused. In the developed world, lower respiratory infections are counted as only the fourth leading cause of death, but kill more people than any other category of infectious disease.
    That was a great example, and highlights a problem with the current pneumonia vaccination policy in the US. Unless you fall into a high risk group the doctors won't offer it to you. As you said your friend was a healthy teenager, he wouldn't have been offered the pneumonia vaccine. The best bet is to get the flu vaccine and avoid getting the flu to start with. I would think being in close contact with so many other kids in school makes you high risk for any kind of flu making the rounds. Just to many chances of being exposed. Also as you said it can make a big difference in your school performance and again, better safe than sorry.
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    I have long been fighting against the flu shot. I personally don't get the shot because I don't believe it does much to help me. I have read what you have posted, however, and I have to admit that you have me thinking this year. My belief has always been the fact that the shot itself can take as much as two weeks before it is capable of taking effect. This opens a window when one is still capable of getting sick in the meantime making the entire shot a complete waste. I really appreciate you taking the time to share the information and the post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetty View Post
    This opens a window when one is still capable of getting sick in the meantime making the entire shot a complete waste.
    Well there's a convoluted piece of non-thinking.
    How long is the "window" open for if you DON'T take the shot?
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetty View Post
    My belief has always been the fact that the shot itself can take as much as two weeks before it is capable of taking effect. This opens a window when one is still capable of getting sick in the meantime making the entire shot a complete waste.
    Even if that is the case, isn't 24 weeks of protection out of a 26 week flu season worthwhile?
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    Tricosanthes



    Photo credit: nature products.net

    This flower blooms in the mountainous regions of Myanmar. It grows on a vine which is a member of the cucumber family ( Cucurbitaceae). In the winter it produces fruit of really bright, fiery red colour.



    Photo credit: natureproducts.net

    This close up of its flower shows the almost ragged looking frills that are its petals and are present when it first opens. The plant grows at a furious rate. A seed planted in warm wet conditions will have produced a climber big enough to cover an area of more than ten square feet after two months.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Tricosanthes



    Photo credit: nature products.net

    This flower blooms in the mountainous regions of Myanmar. It grows on a vine which is a member of the cucumber family ( Cucurbitaceae). In the winter it produces fruit of really bright, fiery red colour.



    Photo credit: natureproducts.net

    This close up of its flower shows the almost ragged looking frills that are its petals and are present when it first opens. The plant grows at a furious rate. A seed planted in warm wet conditions will have produced a climber big enough to cover an area of more than ten square feet after two months.
    Just wondering...is this supposed to be in another thread? lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetty View Post
    I have long been fighting against the flu shot. I personally don't get the shot because I don't believe it does much to help me. I have read what you have posted, however, and I have to admit that you have me thinking this year. My belief has always been the fact that the shot itself can take as much as two weeks before it is capable of taking effect. This opens a window when one is still capable of getting sick in the meantime making the entire shot a complete waste. I really appreciate you taking the time to share the information and the post.
    That's why you get it as early as you can.
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mat5592 View Post

    Just wondering...is this supposed to be in another thread? lol
    Damn! I was trying to figure out what happened to that post. Anyway I re-posted it in Flowers and Flower Gardens Photos

    I usually keep about a dozen tabs open in my browser and this is the first time I've ever slipped like this. I'm hoping it will be the last time it happens.
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetty View Post
    I have long been fighting against the flu shot. I personally don't get the shot because I don't believe it does much to help me. I have read what you have posted, however, and I have to admit that you have me thinking this year. My belief has always been the fact that the shot itself can take as much as two weeks before it is capable of taking effect. This opens a window when one is still capable of getting sick in the meantime making the entire shot a complete waste. I really appreciate you taking the time to share the information and the post.
    If the flu shot prevents you from getting the flu even just one time in your life, it's worth it. As far as vaccinations go the flu shot is fairly cheap. You can skip the doctor visit and get it at your local pharmacy and if you have no insurance it should run you between $20 & $30. I say that's a real bargain.
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    Flue is one of the top killers in the US (and I suspect other developed nations) so yes it's worth getting the shot every year. In my case, where I'm around a lot of kids, it makes sense not only for my protection, but to protect the children and my wife.

    http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/1...ype=blogs&_r=0
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