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Thread: "Affordable Healthcare Act" Early Failures

  1. #201  
    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    However....I don't think that this was well thought out period.
    I think it was 'fought out' not 'thought out'.
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  2. #202  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Okay, so if Fox picks up a Reuters report, that means the original Reuters report is tainted ex post facto. That makes sense in a liberal, progressive, ideological sort of way. Lucky for you, you can bury your head in the sand. We in the US have to live with the consequences of this mess.
    I'm not bothering to read what you write.
    I am simply assuming that it is more misrepresentations, bullshit and lies.
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  3. #203  
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    Quote Originally Posted by redpanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by harold14370 View Post
    okay, so if fox picks up a reuters report, that means the original reuters report is tainted ex post facto. That makes sense in a liberal, progressive, ideological sort of way. Lucky for you, you can bury your head in the sand. We in the us have to live with the consequences of this mess.
    i'm not bothering to read what you write.
    I am simply assuming that it is more misrepresentations, bullshit and lies.
    lalalalala...i can't hear you ....lalalalala
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  4. #204  
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    I'm not bothering to read what you write.
    I am simply assuming that it is more misrepresentations, bullshit and lies.
    RedPanda.

    It's quite understandable that someone disagrees with another person expressing different political views or citing unreliable sources.

    However, it is another thing entirely to accuse them of dishonesty rather than the dozens of other possibilities for those statements. We all have biases and preferences that can affect which news and information sources we are willing to accept as reliable.

    In my case for instance, I would never accept as accurate any report from The Australian here or the Daily Mail in the UK or Fox News in the US without confirmation from more reliable sources ... because of their well-known propensity for inaccuracy (undiluted idiocy in the case of the Daily Fail) and equally well-known political bias in all three cases. But the fact that some other person accepts those sources as reliable is not a reason to accuse them of dishonesty. If you want to say biased or gullible or uncritical or some other form of inadequate judgement, say exactly that in preference to accusing people of lying. Me? I'd prefer that you (or I or whoever) found better information to counter-balance something you (or some other person) says is wrong.

    Being of a different political view is not morally wrong. Being wrong is not morally wrong. Don't presume immorality or dishonesty n such cases. Presenting a better argument or better information is the much better response.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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  5. #205  
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    All I am doing is telling the truth.

    Harold continually misrepresents, lies and bullshits.
    And I have repeatedly shown that he misrepresents, lies and bullshits.

    So why are you telling me to stop posting something that is true?
    Shouldn't you be telling Harold to stop posting misrepresentations, lies and bullshit?


    Presenting a better argument or better information is the much better response.
    Tried that.
    Got fed up with the misrepresentations, lies and bullshit.

    Maybe if you'd told Harold to stop the misrepresentations, lies and bullshit then I would have continued "Presenting a better argument or better information".
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

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  6. #206  
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Presenting a better argument or better information is the much better response.
    Tried that.
    Got fed up with the misrepresentations, lies and bullshit.
    That should have been your clue to pull back from the thread and take a deep breath.

    While it might bring some emotional satisfaction to say someone is "lying," it implies deliberate deception by omission or commission--not something to be written or considered lightly, as in someone knew and understood a "fact" and than deliberately misrepresented that idea. When dealing with a complex politically charged subject it is quite common to find people who either don't know, or do not accept the "facts" of the other political view. And regardless of intent, accusing someone of lying usually incites emotional response rather than a well-reasoned one which is why it's best avoided on a science forum--it does not add to the discussion.
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  7. #207  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Presenting a better argument or better information is the much better response.
    Tried that.
    Got fed up with the misrepresentations, lies and bullshit.
    That should have been your clue to pull back from the thread and take a deep breath.
    Are you saying that I should let Harold post lies and bullshit unchallenged?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    While it might bring some emotional satisfaction to say someone is "lying," it implies deliberate deception by omission or commission
    I was intending it to do more than simply 'imply'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    --not something to be written or considered lightly, as in someone knew and understood a "fact" and than deliberately misrepresented that idea.
    I have enough examples to know Harold is a liar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    When dealing with a complex politically charged subject it is quite common to find people who either don't know, or do not accept the "facts" of the other political view.
    I don't have a problem with someone not accepting what I say.
    I have a problem with someone posting lies and bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    And regardless of intent, accusing someone of lying usually incites emotional response rather than a well-reasoned one which is why it's best avoided on a science forum--it does not add to the discussion.
    Don't worry - if he's actually emotional then at least we might get something truthful for once - but don't hold your breath.
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
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  8. #208  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    lalalalala...i can't hear you ....lalalalala
    3/10
    At least you are being honest about your denial.
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
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    One could almost construe from all this, despite it being a near impossibility, that Mr. Panda is on the Washington payroll! jocular
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  10. #210  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    One could almost construe from all this, despite it being a near impossibility, that Mr. Panda is on the Washington payroll! jocular
    One could also construe from all this that Harold is on the NRA/Fox News/Republican/Teabagger payroll!
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    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

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    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
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    I'm not going to get distracted by the silliness. I'll just keep posting updates on the continuing drama of the Obamacare rollout. If Red Panda wants to post some factual material, I'll respond. Otherwise I'll just sit back and enjoy the rants.
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  12. #212  
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    If Harold ever decides to post some factual material, I'll respond. Otherwise I'll just continue to point out the lies and bullshit.
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
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  13. #213  
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    Stand-off. A similar, but comical scene, presents itself as two cats stand sideways of one another, backs arched into humps, claws spread wide as possible, ears down, each attempting to show it's most fearsome, maximum size, low growls being emitted, but no evident physical movement. joc
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  14. #214  
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    Well, it boils down to two sides having the same facts, but desiring different conclusions. For instance, it isn't "wrong" to say birth control shouldn't be covered by insurance and it isn't "wrong" to say that it should. Conflict of facts can be easily resolved, not so much with opinions.

    Logic doesn't even have to factor in.

    I asked a religious friend of mine if they would support legal abortion if aborting one baby would save, on average, two lives lost in criminal activity by that baby later in life and they still said no. *shrug*
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Well, it boils down to two sides having the same facts, but desiring different conclusions. For instance, it isn't "wrong" to say birth control shouldn't be covered by insurance and it isn't "wrong" to say that it should. Conflict of facts can be easily resolved, not so much with opinions.

    Logic doesn't even have to factor in.
    That was a different thread. In this one, we are dealing in facts such as whether the web site did or did not meet minimum security standards before it was launched, whether there is a workaround needed for insurers to get paid estimated subsidies, and so forth.
    I asked a religious friend of mine if they would support legal abortion if aborting one baby would save, on average, two lives lost in criminal activity by that baby later in life and they still said no. *shrug*
    Would you support infanticide if it could be proven it would save two lives lost due to later criminal activity? That's just a rhetorical question. It's off topic for this thread.
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  16. #216  
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    Crap. You're right. Wrong thread. Sorry.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post

    I asked a religious friend of mine if they would support legal abortion if aborting one baby would save, on average, two lives lost in criminal activity by that baby later in life and they still said no. *shrug*
    The problem inherent in such hypothesizing is that it is predicated on foreseeing the future. In light of that focus, the friend would be understandably unmoved by the "prediction", no? joc
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  18. #218  
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    It was a hypothetical which demonstrated that their intention was not to save lives, but to save specific lives which affected them on a more emotional level, thus being driven by emotions and not logic.

    That having been said, it bears no relevance to this thread because of a mistake on my part so feel free to ignore it.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    It was a hypothetical which demonstrated that their intention was not to save lives, but to save specific lives which affected them on a more emotional level, thus being driven by emotions and not logic.

    That having been said, it bears no relevance to this thread because of a mistake on my part so feel free to ignore it.
    Actually, my mistake may be the worse of the two. Being a "provoker" I often "dig" where not appropriate. This was one of those times. Sorry! joc
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  20. #220  
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    Well I support birth control, being covered and abortion being legal. Period. THAT IS MY HUMBLE OPINION!
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    Remember those extended deadlines for the grandfathered health plans? They're illegal.
    Oregon violated laws by allowing health plans to be extended, according to legislative lawyers | OregonLive.com
    In a Dec. 2 opinion, Lorey Freeman, Senior Deputy Legislative Counsel wrote that allowing the extension essentially allowed companies to renew those policies in violation of federal and state law.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    They're illegal.
    Thank you for providing us with someone else's opinion.
    As they said themselves: "this opinion should not be considered or used as legal advice".
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

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  23. #223  
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    They're illegal.
    Thank you for providing us with someone else's opinion.
    As they said themselves: "this opinion should not be considered or used as legal advice".
    You're welcome, but it is a bit of a no-brainer if you understand what Obama did. He did not change the law by holding a press conference. Only Congress can change the law. What he did was announce his intention to exercise enforcement discretion.
    Enforcement discretion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The exercise of enforcement discretion acknowledges that there is a violation that is subject to enforcement, but which the enforcement agency has decided to overlook. Wikipedia describes enforcement discretion as follows:
    Historically, selective enforcement is recognized as a sign of tyranny, and an abuse of power, because it violates the Rule of Law, allowing those in authority to apply justice only when they choose. Aside from this being inherently unjust, this almost inevitably leads to favoritism and extortion, with those empowered to choose being able to help their friends, take bribes, and threaten those from whom they desire favors.
    To the extent that the insurance agencies go along with the extended deadline for selling the cheaper "sub-standard" policies, the insurance companies will be collecting less in the way of premiums. It appears that a bailout is in the works for the insurance companies, which is explained very well here.
    How Obama wants to sweeten the bailout for insurers under Obamacare | WashingtonExaminer.com
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  24. #224  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    They're illegal.
    Thank you for providing us with someone else's opinion.
    As they said themselves: "this opinion should not be considered or used as legal advice".
    *nothing related to my post*
    So - unable to defend your bullshit again.
    Instead you post more.

    I've seen festival toilets less full of shit.
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    They're illegal.
    Thank you for providing us with someone else's opinion.
    As they said themselves: "this opinion should not be considered or used as legal advice".
    *nothing related to my post*
    So - unable to defend your bullshit again.

    Instead you post more.

    I've seen festival toilets less full of shit.
    Defend what? You did not post anything that contradicted what I wrote. Yes it was somebody else's opinion - a qualified lawyer's. I wasn't planning on using it as legal advice. I don't need legal advice. I am fully in compliance with all relevant laws.
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  26. #226  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Defend what? You did not post anything that contradicted what I wrote. Yes it was somebody else's opinion - a qualified lawyer's. I wasn't planning on using it as legal advice. I don't need legal advice. I am fully in compliance with all relevant laws.
    Your support for it being illegal is based on an opinion.
    The author of said opinion explicitly states that it shouldn't be used as a legal statement.
    Therefore your claim that it is illegal is wrong.
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
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