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Thread: Reaction to "Terminal" Diagnosis

  1. #1 Reaction to "Terminal" Diagnosis 
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    In the event that you were diagnosed with terminal illness, and given a reasonable certainty of dying in the near future, say, a year or two, would you likely continue pursuing living a "healthy lifestyle" by way of proper nourishment and partaking minimally of harmful behavior?

    jocular


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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    would you likely continue pursuing living a "healthy lifestyle" by way of proper nourishment...
    I would think so. Chances are that I'll really take the time to appreciate the scenery; sitting in a nice quiet park, basking under the blazing sun (like I'd always do ), listening to the birds and rustling of tree branches whenever a wind blows.

    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    and partaking minimally of harmful behavior?
    Do you mean along the lines of enjoying a cigarette, or something a lot more malicious like driving with a blindfold on at 100KPH down a busy street with loads of pedestrians?


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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    would you likely continue pursuing living a "healthy lifestyle" by way of proper nourishment...
    I would think so. Chances are that I'll really take the time to appreciate the scenery; sitting in a nice quiet park, basking under the blazing sun (like I'd always do ), listening to the birds and rustling of tree branches whenever a wind blows.

    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    and partaking minimally of harmful behavior?
    Do you mean along the lines of enjoying a cigarette, or something a lot more malicious like driving with a blindfold on at 100KPH down a busy street with loads of pedestrians?
    The latter would be malicious, not me. No point taking others "with you", if they are not Politicians! How could enjoyment be obtained by drawing smoke into one's lungs? The one time I tried "grass", my throat rebelled, burning like hell, and no other feeling resulted. My friends told me it's often like that the first time, do it again. I walked. jocular
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    and partaking minimally of harmful behavior?
    Do you mean along the lines of enjoying a cigarette, or something a lot more malicious like driving with a blindfold on at 100KPH down a busy street with loads of pedestrians?
    How could enjoyment be obtained by drawing smoke into one's lungs? The one time I tried "grass", my throat rebelled, burning like hell, and no other feeling resulted. My friends told me it's often like that the first time, do it again. I walked. jocular
    When your body adjusts to the sensation of smoking, the release of dopamine can be pretty enjoyable.
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    and partaking minimally of harmful behavior?
    Do you mean along the lines of enjoying a cigarette, or something a lot more malicious like driving with a blindfold on at 100KPH down a busy street with loads of pedestrians?
    How could enjoyment be obtained by drawing smoke into one's lungs? The one time I tried "grass", my throat rebelled, burning like hell, and no other feeling resulted. My friends told me it's often like that the first time, do it again. I walked. jocular
    When your body adjusts to the sensation of smoking, the release of dopamine can be pretty enjoyable.
    Is dopamine, to your knowledge, the compound lacking in the brains of Parkinson's Disease sufferers? Long ago, "L-Dopa" was being used only experimentally to help Parkinson's patients. My Dad got it by special order, experimental, in about 1967. It did not help him, but made matters worse. I learned 40 years later that his symptoms were in-line with those of "Progressive Supra-Nuclear Palsy" (PSP), which was in '67 unknown. I have spent a lifetime troubled over the possibility that his affliction n was genetic, and that I would follow in his footsteps. No hint yet, fingers crossed. jocular
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Is dopamine, to your knowledge, the compound lacking in the brains of Parkinson's Disease sufferers?
    I'm afraid I do not know much of the relationship between the two besides that which I have read in nicotine-dopamine articles some years ago. I was initially curious about how my body processes the inhalation of tar and nicotine (amongst other stuff), and the link between the sensations felt with specific neurotransmitters. That began my journey into the subject of neurobiology; however superficial.

    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    I have spent a lifetime troubled over the possibility that his affliction n was genetic, and that I would follow in his footsteps.
    Ouch.

    I'm sure there are others here who may shed some light on that subject. Many of the veterans here are pretty knowledgeable on many aspects of science, and if they aren't, they will likely point you in the direction where you may find some answers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    In the event that you were diagnosed with terminal illness, and given a reasonable certainty of dying in the near future, say, a year or two, would you likely continue pursuing living a "healthy lifestyle" by way of proper nourishment and partaking minimally of harmful behavior?

    jocular
    My reasons for doing any and all of the things that I currently do related to nutrition and health are because I experience the benefits of those actions now, and not potentially sometime in the future. For that reason, were I to be diagnosed with a terminal illness, I cannot immediately think of anything 'harmful' that I would 'enjoy' adding to my itinerary. Working with horses is always potentially dangerous given the nature of a large, reactive mammal, yet the pleasures and the health benefits of outdoor recreation are considerable and the dangers are mitigated to some degree by knowledge and experience.

    Consider me boring but I would be unlikely to change a damn thing in my life save to perhaps get my affairs 'in order'. Perhaps I would max out my credit cards with travel and sampling some exotic foods and wine but that's about as 'crazy' as I'd be likely to become.
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    I'm with scheherezade. Get some things done, mostly paperwork, but it might be painting the dining room, that you haven't previously attached any urgency. You can even organise your own funeral (though a friend of mine who did that when she was given a couple of months to live didn't die for 8 years. She was one stubborn woman.)

    Depending on how the condition affects you, the main thing that most of us would do would be to go on a trip that's always been in the one-day-when intentions. If you can't manage that one month tour of SE Asia or the Andes, go and visit your cousin/ oldest friend for a weekend in a city you've not been to before.

    And throw a big party for everyone you know - right now - rather than waiting until a wake when you're not there to enjoy it.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    I would immediately look for a possible heir for my live steam locomotive and tool collection. But hey, that's just me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    In the event that you were diagnosed with terminal illness, and given a reasonable certainty of dying in the near future, say, a year or two, would you likely continue pursuing living a "healthy lifestyle" by way of proper nourishment and partaking minimally of harmful behavior?

    That depends on the illness.
    If the illness is accompanied with agony (either physical or mental) that cannot be mitigated, I would request euthanasia.

    However, if that is not the case, I would not continue to pursue a healthy lifestyle.
    Your time is limited, so why waste it by being careful?
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    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    I would try to fulfill one thing on my bucket list that was the best. If young...I'd fight. If in my 80's I would not.

    That was my MIL's choice.

    I have also learned that 3-6 months generally means 3-6 weeks..I wish I did not have such a close personal knowledge of cancer. Sometimes ignorance IS bliss!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    In the event that you were diagnosed with terminal illness, and given a reasonable certainty of dying in the near future, say, a year or two, would you likely continue pursuing living a "healthy lifestyle" by way of proper nourishment and partaking minimally of harmful behavior?
    In my case it would require starting such a lifestyle before I could continue it.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    In the event that you were diagnosed with terminal illness, and given a reasonable certainty of dying in the near future, say, a year or two, would you likely continue pursuing living a "healthy lifestyle" by way of proper nourishment and partaking minimally of harmful behavior?
    In my case it would require starting such a lifestyle before I could continue it.
    You do not strike me as a person who doesn't eat healthy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post

    Perhaps I would max out my credit cards with travel and sampling some exotic foods and wine but that's about as 'crazy' as I'd be likely to become. :
    You GO Girl! joc
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    - rather than waiting until a wake when you're not there to enjoy it.
    Ahhh, but some of us already glimpsing the "Nether" may be subliminally rather enjoying the prospect of our sightless visage scrutinizing the scrutiny of our wakes. jocular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    I would immediately look for a possible heir for my live steam locomotive and tool collection. But hey, that's just me.
    The waiting line forms immediately BEHIND me! joc
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    In the event that you were diagnosed with terminal illness, and given a reasonable certainty of dying in the near future, say, a year or two, would you likely continue pursuing living a "healthy lifestyle" by way of proper nourishment and partaking minimally of harmful behavior?
    In my case it would require starting such a lifestyle before I could continue it.
    I see more and more here in the forum, how explicitly exquisite only one word can be: "continue" joc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    [
    However, if that is not the case, I would not continue to pursue a healthy lifestyle.
    Your time is limited, so why waste it by being careful?
    My wonder extends to the fact that even terminal diagnoses are often WRONG. Given that scenario, such would contribute to early demise through shitty lifestyle assumption.

    I AM such a bitch, always second-guessing pronouncements, especially those put forth by "practitioners", those "practicing" what they profess to "expert" in. joc
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    I'd be sad that I'd never live to see my 1'000th birthday.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    [
    However, if that is not the case, I would not continue to pursue a healthy lifestyle.
    Your time is limited, so why waste it by being careful?
    My wonder extends to the fact that even terminal diagnoses are often WRONG. Given that scenario, such would contribute to early demise through shitty lifestyle assumption.

    A second opinion by a different doctor might be recommendable.
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    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Well, I for one, hope Jocular is asking a hypothetical question and has not been diagnosed with a terminal illness (Other than aging)--- live steam engine notwithstanding.
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    Secure my affairs, figure out something on my bucket list that would make me the happiest and do that...reassess than do another. Most of mine would be considered rather risky. Do another solo hike across the Olympic peninsula like I did 20 years ago. Spend a month on the plains chasing tornadoes. Kayak the length of the Columbia River. Spend a week fly fishing and taking pictures of pronghorn. Following a heard of Roosevelt elk for a week packing extremely light, like one meal a day my survival knife and camera equipment. I would choice to live and revel in nature to the very end. Lastly, and wife worries about this point, I'd had several several near scrapes with death from explosion, gun fire, a damaged commercial fishing boat off shore, fallen through ice, and swept down two icy cold rivers after loosing my footing while fly fishing, and been unconscious from hypothermia. I'd weigh if it was worth taking my own life before I was in the god awful morphine induced haze we somehow consider merciful (we treat our pets with more consideration).
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; October 21st, 2013 at 08:45 AM.
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    I would do whatever was necessary to spend my time with my son.
    To teach him as much as possible and try to leave a lasting impression for his life.

    And I would fight- if they gave me a year, I'll show them ten.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Secure my affairs, figure out something on my bucket list that would make me the happiest and do that...reassess than do another. Most of mine would be considered rather risky. Do another solo hike across the Olympic peninsula like I did 20 years ago. Spend a month on the plains chasing tornadoes. Kayak the length of the Columbia River. Spend a week fly fishing and taking pictures of pronghorn. Following a heard of Roosevelt elk for a week packing extremely light, like one meal a day my survival knife and camera equipment. I would choice to live and revel in nature to the very end. Lastly, and wife worries about this point, I'd had several several near scrapes with death from explosion, gun fire, a damaged commercial fishing boat off shore, fallen through ice, and swept down two icy cold rivers after loosing my footing while fly fishing, and been unconscious from hypothermia. I'd weigh if it was worth taking my own life before I was in the god awesome morphine induced haze we somehow consider merciful (we treat our pets with more consideration).
    Wouldn't we all......wish that we could be treated better than our pets.
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    Frankly, just having watched this with my 38 year nephew and pancreatic cancer and how hard he fought. This is hitting way to close to home.........grief is still too new.....there are so many variables equating with this type of news....I think we all think "what we would do"....but given the dx and treatment possibilities...we have choices that we have no idea of that we'd have to make which would change our non dx'd thoughts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    I'd weigh if it was worth taking my own life before I was in the god awful morphine induced haze we somehow consider merciful (we treat our pets with more consideration).
    This is what I wondered if anyone would touch on. What sort of intestinal fortitude would it take? How would one know it is "time", and not premature? And, we're back on the morality of suicide question, and whether TAKING a life is ever acceptable, some believing yes, others vehemently against it. joc
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    I'd weigh if it was worth taking my own life before I was in the god awful morphine induced haze we somehow consider merciful (we treat our pets with more consideration).
    This is what I wondered if anyone would touch on. What sort of intestinal fortitude would it take? How would one know it is "time", and not premature? And, we're back on the morality of suicide question, and whether TAKING a life is ever acceptable, some believing yes, others vehemently against it. joc
    The whole subject of morality is about 'group dynamics'. If one were the only person on the planet, what would morals matter?

    (Never mind the fact that one cannot come into being without two others or at least their genetic material or a mad scientist who can clone DNA)

    The fact that there is such polarization on the topic of suicide rather demonstrates that the group values the presence of the individual and that as individuals, we largely define our own self worth by serving and pleasing others. I do not mean servitude in a demeaning manner but rather that we receive personal affirmation from our ability to bring assistance, aid, affection and joy to the lives of others and also in the receiving of same.

    Once we are no longer able to find even a small measure of pleasure in existence, we should have the right to determine our own 'exit strategy' so that we do not prolong suffering for ourselves and for others. IMHO, and this line will be considerably variable based upon the values and the pain tolerance of individuals. I would certainly urge the opportunity of counsel before making the path easier but I would not presume to know what is best for another and I would not thank another for denying me the right to this decision, if I felt that I was ready to explore beyond human comprehension.

    Death.

    It claims us all in the end.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIIqYqtR1lY
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    How would one know it is "time", and not premature?
    With pets, my view is that it's better a week too early than a suffering day too late.

    As for people. I was much comforted by a talk by a nun from a hospice. She never discussed suicide. She simply said that when patients were approaching death, especially by cancer or other painful conditions, their standard procedure was to offer "oblivion". People could get their friends and family in to say goodbye and sort out funeral and other arrangements.

    Once the patient said that was what they wanted, the staff would give and maintain drug doses so that, once started, the patient would never regain consciousness or feel anything ever again. They just cared for them until they died. Not a bad option if euthanasia is too hard to organise.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    It seems incongruous (is that even the right word?) that some people would be more humane to their pets than to a fellow Human being.

    If it's your descision, and you knew exactly what you wanted, and weren't under any pressure in any way, then people should have the right to choose how their life will end rather than having to wait with uncertainty for the next illness or accident.

    Of course it would be a very sad occasion for their friends and relatives, but our own sadness shouldn't take precedence over someone else's suffering.
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    we cannot accept this like humanty and make it normal... (putting it into the law) althought we all know... it would be humanous if it happens...
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackscorp View Post
    we cannot accept this like humanty and make it normal... (putting it into the law) althought we all know... it would be humanous if it happens...
    I'm not certain of what you mean by the use of the word 'humanous'. Perhaps you could elaborate?
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    If I were diagnosed as "terminal". I wouldn't change one goddamned thing, 'cepting, that I might contact some old friends and say goodbye.

    ..........................
    if vegetarians eat vegetables,
    what do humanitarians eat?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blackscorp View Post
    we cannot accept this like humanty and make it normal... (putting it into the law) althought we all know... it would be humanous if it happens...
    I'm not certain of what you mean by the use of the word 'humanous'. Perhaps you could elaborate?
    humanitarian
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    problem is we are to far in medicine normaly we wouldent need to discuss such things...
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackscorp View Post
    problem is we are to far in medicine normaly we wouldent need to discuss such things...
    To a certain extent, I agree with you. We have a huge pharmaceutical industry and any number of well intentioned organizations that are also corporate industries which would not need to exist if we actually found a cure for certain diseases.

    Disease and illness are 'big business' and that is a rather sad observation.
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    [QUOTE=adelady;475189]
    Once the patient said that was what they wanted, the staff would give and maintain drug doses so that, once started, the patient would never regain consciousness or feel anything ever again. They just cared for them until they died. Not a bad option if euthanasia is too hard to organise.
    In violation of the Hippocratic Oath? Possibly in violation of the law? jocular
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    In violation of the Hippocratic Oath? Possibly in violation of the law?
    Relief of pain is in violation of the law? Medically induced coma is against the law?

    The only reason this kind of drug regime for pain relief is not used elsewhere is the idiotic fear of the patient becoming addicted. Even some patients fear it. When death is a mere few hours, days, or weeks away, addiction is not a consideration. (My own view is that it's overstated anyway, but that's not relevant here.)
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    [QUOTE=jocular;475724]
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Once the patient said that was what they wanted, the staff would give and maintain drug doses so that, once started, the patient would never regain consciousness or feel anything ever again. They just cared for them until they died. Not a bad option if euthanasia is too hard to organise.
    In violation of the Hippocratic Oath? Possibly in violation of the law? jocular
    You may find the article at this link, which contains both the ancient and the modern Hippocratic oath, to be an interesting read.

    NOVA | The Hippocratic Oath Today

    The law on this topic is variable from region to region and there is generally an understanding that 'passed peacefully' may have more than one interpretation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackscorp View Post
    we cannot accept this like humanty and make it normal... (putting it into the law) althought we all know... it would be humanous if it happens...
    ??? Humanitarian? If so... I agree!
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  41. #40  
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    Why don't they give terminal patients HEROIN? They are afraid they will become ADDICTED? I do NOT understand this concept. Make their last days as smooth as possible.
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    [QUOTE=scheherazade;475726]
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Once the patient said that was what they wanted, the staff would give and maintain drug doses so that, once started, the patient would never regain consciousness or feel anything ever again. They just cared for them until they died. Not a bad option if euthanasia is too hard to organise.
    In violation of the Hippocratic Oath? Possibly in violation of the law? jocular
    You may find the article at this link, which contains both the ancient and the modern Hippocratic oath, to be an interesting read.

    NOVA | The Hippocratic Oath Today

    The law on this topic is variable from region to region and there is generally an understanding that 'passed peacefully' may have more than one interpretation.
    interesting
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    I'm currently trying to live in the present, and learning I had a terminal illness would make me try harder!
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    Do not know how I would react. Frankly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    In the event that you were diagnosed with terminal illness, and given a reasonable certainty of dying in the near future, say, a year or two, would you likely continue pursuing living a "healthy lifestyle" by way of proper nourishment and partaking minimally of harmful behavior?

    jocular
    I wound up thinking a lot about that the past year. I was diagnosed with advanced rectal cancer a year and a half ago. Before, I thought I would probably live into my late 80's, like my grandparents and parents did. After I was diagnosed, I realized that I might not even live another five years, much less into my 80's. I kind of let myself go while I was going through treatment, and wound up so out of shape that standing up from a chair was difficult. Now, realizing I might be very limited in time, I'm getting back to working out and eating better. I don't want to waste my time and energy feeling bad and just vegetating. Too much living left to do.

    FWIW,
    Clarissa
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogLady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    In the event that you were diagnosed with terminal illness, and given a reasonable certainty of dying in the near future, say, a year or two, would you likely continue pursuing living a "healthy lifestyle" by way of proper nourishment and partaking minimally of harmful behavior?

    jocular
    I wound up thinking a lot about that the past year. I was diagnosed with advanced rectal cancer a year and a half ago. Before, I thought I would probably live into my late 80's, like my grandparents and parents did. After I was diagnosed, I realized that I might not even live another five years, much less into my 80's. I kind of let myself go while I was going through treatment, and wound up so out of shape that standing up from a chair was difficult. Now, realizing I might be very limited in time, I'm getting back to working out and eating better. I don't want to waste my time and energy feeling bad and just vegetating. Too much living left to do.

    FWIW,
    Clarissa
    You have a beautiful and very inspiring attitude, Clarissa. I'm sorry to hear of your news here, but you've inspired me, so you know. Sending you positive thoughts this day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogLady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    In the event that you were diagnosed with terminal illness, and given a reasonable certainty of dying in the near future, say, a year or two, would you likely continue pursuing living a "healthy lifestyle" by way of proper nourishment and partaking minimally of harmful behavior?

    jocular
    I wound up thinking a lot about that the past year. I was diagnosed with advanced rectal cancer a year and a half ago. Before, I thought I would probably live into my late 80's, like my grandparents and parents did. After I was diagnosed, I realized that I might not even live another five years, much less into my 80's. I kind of let myself go while I was going through treatment, and wound up so out of shape that standing up from a chair was difficult. Now, realizing I might be very limited in time, I'm getting back to working out and eating better. I don't want to waste my time and energy feeling bad and just vegetating. Too much living left to do.

    FWIW,
    Clarissa
    How I envy you! You DO represent inspiration with such a positive attitude, surely one in a million! If we were able to remove the doldrums and idolatry invariably present during the remainder of our lives, we could surely live them out happily and productively even though shortened in duration. joc
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    In violation of the Hippocratic Oath? Possibly in violation of the law?
    Relief of pain is in violation of the law? Medically induced coma is against the law?

    The only reason this kind of drug regime for pain relief is not used elsewhere is the idiotic fear of the patient becoming addicted. Even some patients fear it. When death is a mere few hours, days, or weeks away, addiction is not a consideration. (My own view is that it's overstated anyway, but that's not relevant here.)
    I can't talk for the entire country, but in my training and my practice, when someone is terminal, pain relief is given. If it shortens their life by a few days, so what? The problems with pain management comes with using narcotics to treat non-malignant pain. These patients have literallly years of life ahead of them, and the goal is to keep them functional enough to enjoy most of life and be as productive with their life as they want. The problem is that narcotics are very dangerous (not talking about addiction here) - deaths from accidental overdosage, or just as prescribed usage, have skyrocketed since use of narcotics has increased for chronic pain. While people can develop a physical tolerance (NOT an addiction) to even high doses of narcotics, for their pain relieving effects, their side effects, especially respiratory depression, does NOT produce a tolerance. So you may need more and more drug to get the equivalent pain relief, but you are also getting closer and closer to a lethal dose.

    Now, the legal system, especially the DEA and such, complain about properly prescribed drugs being diverted into the illicit drug trade. While some of this is coming from patients (very common here in rural NC - I've had to refuse further pain medications to certain patients after it was proven they were diverting) - a lot of diverting comes from other area. From where the medications are manufactured all the way to the pharmacists who dispense them. Unfortunately, the DEA often comes down on pain management specialists, charging them with crimes, even sending them to prison, which has a chilling effect on medical practice.

    Clarissa
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    In the event that you were diagnosed with terminal illness, and given a reasonable certainty of dying in the near future, say, a year or two, would you likely continue pursuing living a "healthy lifestyle" by way of proper nourishment and partaking minimally of harmful behavior?

    jocular
    I would not work so much - take time to smell the flowers. I would continue to live a "kind of healthy lifestyle" but in saying that I also wouldn't go to the extreme but I would enjoy things that I love and try things I want to do.

    I would have a party to celebrate 'life' not so much my life but give thanks to everyone that have taught me different lessons - even bad ones
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogLady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    In the event that you were diagnosed with terminal illness, and given a reasonable certainty of dying in the near future, say, a year or two, would you likely continue pursuing living a "healthy lifestyle" by way of proper nourishment and partaking minimally of harmful behavior?

    jocular
    I wound up thinking a lot about that the past year. I was diagnosed with advanced rectal cancer a year and a half ago. Before, I thought I would probably live into my late 80's, like my grandparents and parents did. After I was diagnosed, I realized that I might not even live another five years, much less into my 80's. I kind of let myself go while I was going through treatment, and wound up so out of shape that standing up from a chair was difficult. Now, realizing I might be very limited in time, I'm getting back to working out and eating better. I don't want to waste my time and energy feeling bad and just vegetating. Too much living left to do.

    FWIW,
    Clarissa
    The best of thoughts and wishes for you Clarissa!! BIG HUGS!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogLady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    In violation of the Hippocratic Oath? Possibly in violation of the law?
    Relief of pain is in violation of the law? Medically induced coma is against the law?

    The only reason this kind of drug regime for pain relief is not used elsewhere is the idiotic fear of the patient becoming addicted. Even some patients fear it. When death is a mere few hours, days, or weeks away, addiction is not a consideration. (My own view is that it's overstated anyway, but that's not relevant here.)
    I can't talk for the entire country, but in my training and my practice, when someone is terminal, pain relief is given. If it shortens their life by a few days, so what? The problems with pain management comes with using narcotics to treat non-malignant pain. These patients have literallly years of life ahead of them, and the goal is to keep them functional enough to enjoy most of life and be as productive with their life as they want. The problem is that narcotics are very dangerous (not talking about addiction here) - deaths from accidental overdosage, or just as prescribed usage, have skyrocketed since use of narcotics has increased for chronic pain. While people can develop a physical tolerance (NOT an addiction) to even high doses of narcotics, for their pain relieving effects, their side effects, especially respiratory depression, does NOT produce a tolerance. So you may need more and more drug to get the equivalent pain relief, but you are also getting closer and closer to a lethal dose.

    Now, the legal system, especially the DEA and such, complain about properly prescribed drugs being diverted into the illicit drug trade. While some of this is coming from patients (very common here in rural NC - I've had to refuse further pain medications to certain patients after it was proven they were diverting) - a lot of diverting comes from other area. From where the medications are manufactured all the way to the pharmacists who dispense them. Unfortunately, the DEA often comes down on pain management specialists, charging them with crimes, even sending them to prison, which has a chilling effect on medical practice.

    Clarissa
    I still do not understand why they don't use heroin for terminal patients. Morphine does not do the same job. (other than it is prohibited)
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    For one thing, the DEA would have to redesignate it a Schedule II (tightly controlled but available) instead of Schedule I (not available to prescribe). We do have methadone, which is almost as good but takes a while to get it up to an adequate dosage. Dilaudid is also a good pain medicine. I go to this one if morphine isn't helping. But, yes, I would like to prescribe a Brompton's cocktail. Clarissa
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    Quote Originally Posted by DogLady View Post
    For one thing, the DEA would have to redesignate it a Schedule II (tightly controlled but available) instead of Schedule I (not available to prescribe). We do have methadone, which is almost as good but takes a while to get it up to an adequate dosage. Dilaudid is also a good pain medicine. I go to this one if morphine isn't helping. But, yes, I would like to prescribe a Brompton's cocktail. Clarissa
    Thanks.
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