Thread: Psychology of Races

Hello again fellow science members.

I have a question because I have limited time to do some research. Is it known that African Americans are genetically more violent? I was looking at the crime rates in America and it reports how African Americans cause a lot more crime than other races by a longshot. Now I am not saying that every African American is bad or violent, but I was thinking, could they have a higher sense of aggression because of their history and ancestors in Africa? Even in ancient times Africans were known to fight each others tribes aggressively. Do African Americans have genes or chrosmosomes that could have an increase in aggression?

Yes, you could say it is peer pressure and cultural influence, but overtime we slowly evolve and I wonder if there is a gene or chromosome that increase aggression in people that have it. Not mental illness but genes thatr doesn't hinder the mind.

Originally Posted by Duke Mocoy

Even in ancient times Africans were known to fight each others tribes aggressively.

Huh? As opposed to the millennia of peace and harmony in Europe, Asia and the Americas?

It would seem pretty obvious that if crime rates are higher among African Americans, then that is due to their social conditions. I would need some pretty good evidence otherwise.

Originally Posted by Duke Mocoy

Even in ancient times Africans were known to fight each others tribes aggressively.

We Asians aren't exactly flowerchild ourselves, depending on which era you have in mind.

List of wars and anthropogenic disasters by death toll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even in ancient times Africans were known to fight each others tribes aggressively.

Have you read the bible? Or the history of the Roman Empire? Or any other history?

Originally Posted by Duke Mocoy

Hello again fellow science members.

I have a question because I have limited time to do some research. Is it known that African Americans are genetically more violent? I was looking at the crime rates in America and it reports how African Americans cause a lot more crime than other races by a longshot. Now I am not saying that every African American is bad or violent, but I was thinking, could they have a higher sense of aggression because of their history and ancestors in Africa? Even in ancient times Africans were known to fight each others tribes aggressively. Do African Americans have genes or chrosmosomes that could have an increase in aggression?

Yes, you could say it is peer pressure and cultural influence, but overtime we slowly evolve and I wonder if there is a gene or chromosome that increase aggression in people that have it. Not mental illness but genes thatr doesn't hinder the mind.

It's not my field but I could not find any basis for this notion in a quick web search. You might care to read this, however, which goes into the evidence that aggressive tendencies can be inherited: Genetics of aggression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As others have pointed out, in the human context it is always very hard indeed to disentangle "nurture" (cultural and environmental effects) from "nature" (pure genetic inheritance).

From a practical point of view, it seems to me fairly useless and divisive to search for such a genetic trait in a subgroup within society. We all are what we are, genetically, and have to make the best of whatever mix we find in those around us. For example, I might think it fun to do a study to explore whether Southern White Americans have a genetic tendency towards being both racist and stupid, but I don't think many people would see that as a worthwhile research project.

Originally Posted by Duke Mocoy

Hello again fellow science members.

I have a question because I have limited time to do some research. Is it known that African Americans are genetically more violent? I was looking at the crime rates in America and it reports how African Americans cause a lot more crime than other races by a longshot. Now I am not saying that every African American is bad or violent, but I was thinking, could they have a higher sense of aggression because of their history and ancestors in Africa? Even in ancient times Africans were known to fight each others tribes aggressively. Do African Americans have genes or chrosmosomes that could have an increase in aggression?

Yes, you could say it is peer pressure and cultural influence, but overtime we slowly evolve and I wonder if there is a gene or chromosome that increase aggression in people that have it. Not mental illness but genes thatr doesn't hinder the mind.

Back in the day, organized crime was run by Italians and Jews. Are those races more violent too?

The first problem with the thread, is there really no such thing as race because there's larger genetic variations within each group of similar skin pigmentation than between average differences defined that way. Haplogroups which is akin to ancestry, is a much better way to discuss genetic groups.

Originally Posted by Strange

if crime rates are higher among African Americans,

There is no if about it. Crime rates are dramatically higher. Don't buy the arguments about racial profiling or biased juries, either. The black community in the US has a crime problem. There is no point in trying to deny it.

its about the reason is it genetic... or something else...

Originally Posted by Duke Mocoy

Hello again fellow science members.

I have a question because I have limited time to do some research. Is it known that African Americans are genetically more violent? I was looking at the crime rates in America and it reports how African Americans cause a lot more crime than other races by a longshot. Now I am not saying that every African American is bad or violent, but I was thinking, could they have a higher sense of aggression because of their history and ancestors in Africa? Even in ancient times Africans were known to fight each others tribes aggressively. Do African Americans have genes or chrosmosomes that could have an increase in aggression?

Yes, you could say it is peer pressure and cultural influence, but overtime we slowly evolve and I wonder if there is a gene or chromosome that increase aggression in people that have it. Not mental illness but genes thatr doesn't hinder the mind.

Perhaps rather racial causes regarding aggression it could be much more to do with that lasting effects of the legacy of slavery and a long history of prejudice, surely this must have some effect on the way people behave. Also, and I think this has a very strong bearing here, is the effect that relative poverty has the way that people behave. Lets just look at the crime rates of African Americans who are affluent and live in affluent areas, what you'll find is they are nothing like that of poverty stricken areas. So given that many African Americans are still living in poverty it's only natural that crime rates and aggression are disproportionately over represented for them.

And dropping faster than any other group now that two generations have had the chance to live under less civil oppression, growing economic opportunities, and more available choices for women to have abortions if they aren't positioned to raise a child, and more social programs to identify and help poor get mental and physical care for their children.

My first reaction to the Op is where did you get the studies from? Who did the research? Did the African American do any research about violence in America? You know there is always the problem of other cultures making statement about another group totally in ignorance trying to cover up their own weaknesses. Obviously there was no thorough investigation done about the real violence that is being perpetuated against African Americans. I have heard, and read so many people saying the drug problem in America is caused by black people. There could be nothing more far from the truth than that. If you want to talk about violence, you would have to look at the so called Americans themselves. I say so called Americans because in reality they are not the true Americans as the truth is slowly coming to light. Africans are in no way a violent people, if you want to study violence you have to look at Europe and America. Where did you get the information that in the past history of Africans that they were always fighting among themselves? I do not have to guess where you got that from, although I am sure it is a blot on the psyche of the African American to be following in the footsteps of the vicious and murderous past of the Europeans that escaped the laws of Europe and landed in America. Out of all the killings in the United States, black people have been murdered by the KKK, the government, and the poor white people than any other people. As a matter of fact this thread is not giving evidence that the study is true. I suggest you go back and study the real facts a little more. Yes, I agree black people have become increasingly violent, but you must take into consideration that is the way they were taught to defend themselves. Sadly they have turned on themselves because the environment is not conducive to nonviolent behavior (Martin L. King). It does not matter if you advocate nonviolence; the majority kills you just the same. Sorry look up your own history. It is known that Africans have gone through thousands of years without killing each other, western culture can barely account for fifty years of peace.

Originally Posted by Harold14370

Originally Posted by Strange

if crime rates are higher among African Americans,

There is no if about it. Crime rates are dramatically higher. Don't buy the arguments about racial profiling or biased juries, either. The black community in the US has a crime problem. There is no point in trying to deny it.

I agree with you that the African American has a crime problem, it’s called the state. I think you would sing a different song if you went to Africa and be treated the way African Americans are treated in the US. Hitler once said he knew how to treat the Jews because he learnt it from the US how they treated the blacks. I am sure you know nothing about racial profiling, although I do not like the word race it helps to divide people.

Originally Posted by blackscorp

its about the reason is it genetic... or something else...

You are not saying all violence is genetic are you? Or maybe you just don't know?

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by blackscorp

its about the reason is it genetic... or something else...

You are not saying all violence is genetic are you? Or maybe you just don't know?

its to complicated to explain it in short but in this special case im just remembering people whats this topic about...

Yeah, I've never heard of Africans being "genetically more violent," also I feel like data such as this would by heavily statistic-based and retrospective. I'm very skeptical.

But the nature-nurture discussion is interesting.

(Also, side note! As scientists, "race" should not be a part of our vocabulary when talking about genetics. The idea of "race" is socially constructed, and essentially has no scientific basis. I'm not trying to criticize your word choice, just a suggestion!)

Originally Posted by Ascended

Originally Posted by Duke Mocoy

Hello again fellow science members.

I have a question because I have limited time to do some research. Is it known that African Americans are genetically more violent? I was looking at the crime rates in America and it reports how African Americans cause a lot more crime than other races by a longshot. Now I am not saying that every African American is bad or violent, but I was thinking, could they have a higher sense of aggression because of their history and ancestors in Africa? Even in ancient times Africans were known to fight each others tribes aggressively. Do African Americans have genes or chrosmosomes that could have an increase in aggression?

Yes, you could say it is peer pressure and cultural influence, but overtime we slowly evolve and I wonder if there is a gene or chromosome that increase aggression in people that have it. Not mental illness but genes thatr doesn't hinder the mind.

Perhaps rather racial causes regarding aggression it could be much more to do with that lasting effects of the legacy of slavery and a long history of prejudice, surely this must have some effect on the way people behave. Also, and I think this has a very strong bearing here, is the effect that relative poverty has the way that people behave. Lets just look at the crime rates of African Americans who are affluent and live in affluent areas, what you'll find is they are nothing like that of poverty stricken areas. So given that many African Americans are still living in poverty it's only natural that crime rates and aggression are disproportionately over represented for them.

Some of the myths about black groups are propagated through the system into the media distribution channels, sadly the people believe everything they hear. The powers exploit the masses by making them believe it is a problem between black and white people. Generally if people are left alone, they will communicate b, there is a universal life force that makes us all want to communicate with one another

Originally Posted by iRNAblogger

Yeah, I've never heard of Africans being "genetically more violent," also I feel like data such as this would by heavily statistic-based and retrospective. I'm very skeptical.

But the nature-nurture discussion is interesting.

(Also, side note! As scientists, "race" should not be a part of our vocabulary when talking about genetics. The idea of "race" is socially constructed, and essentially has no scientific basis. I'm not trying to criticize your word choice, just a suggestion!)

There is no order in our societies, we cannot legislate everything into law, some thing’s must be from the heart. If you start telling the masses about race, you are dividing them. There are some good examples in the past, Rome, Germany, just to name a few. The cultures are what define us all; yet, we remove this basic respect and replace it with race. We create a divisive citation in the society, look at the results and go in search of a gene to fit it.
If that was all it would not be so bad, but the results are taken into the schools and taught to keep the minds of the masses focused that this division farce, and call it a race problem.

Originally Posted by Stargate

My first reaction to the Op is where did you get the studies from? Who did the research?

The statistics are from the FBI, who compile arrest records from various law enforcement agencies. Do you have a reason to question them?
FBI — Crime in the U.S. 2011

Did the African American do any research about violence in America? You know there is always the problem of other cultures making statement about another group totally in ignorance trying to cover up their own weaknesses. Obviously there was no thorough investigation done about the real violence that is being perpetuated against African Americans.

What violence do you think is being perpetuated against African Americans? Why do you think that?

I have heard, and read so many people saying the drug problem in America is caused by black people. There could be nothing more far from the truth than that. If you want to talk about violence, you would have to look at the so called Americans themselves. I say so called Americans because in reality they are not the true Americans as the truth is slowly coming to light. Africans are in no way a violent people, if you want to study violence you have to look at Europe and America. Where did you get the information that in the past history of Africans that they were always fighting among themselves? I do not have to guess where you got that from, although I am sure it is a blot on the psyche of the African American to be following in the footsteps of the vicious and murderous past of the Europeans that escaped the laws of Europe and landed in America.

What makes you think Americans are more vicious or murderous than other people?

Out of all the killings in the United States, black people have been murdered by the KKK, the government, and the poor white people than any other people.

On what do you base that statistic?

As a matter of fact this thread is not giving evidence that the study is true. I suggest you go back and study the real facts a little more. Yes, I agree black people have become increasingly violent, but you must take into consideration that is the way they were taught to defend themselves. Sadly they have turned on themselves because the environment is not conducive to nonviolent behavior (Martin L. King). It does not matter if you advocate nonviolence; the majority kills you just the same.

Please provide evidence of the majority killing minorities.

Sorry look up your own history. It is known that Africans have gone through thousands of years without killing each other, western culture can barely account for fifty years of peace.

Please provide evidence that Africans have gone through thousands of years without killing each other. Africans sold slaves to the European and American slave traders. They also continued the slave trade for years after it was stopped in America and the European colonies.

But the nature-nurture discussion is interesting.

I think the more interesting one for this topic at least is the poverty/ class/ power structure one.

Loooong time ago, so no reference or link, I saw some figures on crime, alcoholism and a couple of other social indicators for both white and indigenous Australians. It was pure serendipity that I happened to see the two reports/ data sets more or less side by side. There was a gigantic difference between indigenous people and the Australian population at large. There was virtually no difference between poor, urban indigenous people and poor, urban, white people.

Once you compare like sub-population with like sub-population, you can get a better starting point. In this case, start with poverty. After that, you really need to be a statistics savvy sociologist to de-trend (or whatever they do) for other apparently relevant factors.

Or you could go at it from the other angle. Start with some statistical similarities by finding all the geographical communities with a benchmarked or threshold rate of murder/ violence/ vandalism, whatever you're interested in, and see what falls out as correlations on income, housing, education, race, whatever. Then look to see if there's anything in the research to help with further analysis.

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by iRNAblogger

Yeah, I've never heard of Africans being "genetically more violent," also I feel like data such as this would by heavily statistic-based and retrospective. I'm very skeptical.

But the nature-nurture discussion is interesting.

(Also, side note! As scientists, "race" should not be a part of our vocabulary when talking about genetics. The idea of "race" is socially constructed, and essentially has no scientific basis. I'm not trying to criticize your word choice, just a suggestion!)

There is no order in our societies, we cannot legislate everything into law, some thing’s must be from the heart. If you start telling the masses about race, you are dividing them. There are some good examples in the past, Rome, Germany, just to name a few. The cultures are what define us all; yet, we remove this basic respect and replace it with race. We create a divisive citation in the society, look at the results and go in search of a gene to fit it.
If that was all it would not be so bad, but the results are taken into the schools and taught to keep the minds of the masses focused that this division farce, and call it a race problem.

the world is to dark people to bad to let it to the "heart" and not law

To Harold 14370

The statistics are from the FBI, who compile arrest records from various law enforcement agencies. Do you have a reason to question them?
FBI — Crime in the U.S. 2011

I have a reason to question everything; I read just like you especially the information on life on the planet. You may not know it but most of the atrocities that is perpetrated on people, not only black people, are never reported by the people who carry out the act.

What violence do you think is being perpetuated against African Americans? Why do you think that?

I don’t want you to place me in a corner and make it sound as if I am against America or Americans because I am certainly not. However, the truth must be told. I really find your question somewhat hypocritical because if you look at Caucasians in Africa you do not hear the same cry of injustice as you do in America. We are not talking about if people commit crime all over the world, we are talking about injustice to black people in America.

What makes you think Americans are more vicious or murderous than other people?

I do not think Americans are more vicious than other people but I do think they are vicious to black people. I think it relates to fear.

On what do you base that statistic?

In this case it’s hard to rely on American statistics, most times they are biased, I rely more on what I know from people and see for myself.

[QUOTPlease provide evidence of the majority killing minorities.[/QUOTE]

Sorry I think you are being a bit naïve, the question seems not to be coming from logical thought.

Please provide evidence that Africans have gone through thousands of years without killing each other. Africans sold slaves to the European and American slave traders. They also continued the slave trade for years after it was stopped in America and the European colonies.

Slavery is not new, the salve trade has not ended, and human beings seem to have not learned about balance. However, he who feels it knows it. What do you want me to say, continue with hatred and bigotry. Black and white people are people; no one should be treated other than how you want to be treated. Do you think we are going to get a good story from the aggressor? The victor writes the history.

Originally Posted by adelady

But the nature-nurture discussion is interesting.

I think the more interesting one for this topic at least is the poverty/ class/ power structure one.

Loooong time ago, so no reference or link, I saw some figures on crime, alcoholism and a couple of other social indicators for both white and indigenous Australians. It was pure serendipity that I happened to see the two reports/ data sets more or less side by side. There was a gigantic difference between indigenous people and the Australian population at large. There was virtually no difference between poor, urban indigenous people and poor, urban, white people.

Once you compare like sub-population with like sub-population, you can get a better starting point. In this case, start with poverty. After that, you really need to be a statistics savvy sociologist to de-trend (or whatever they do) for other apparently relevant factors.

Or you could go at it from the other angle. Start with some statistical similarities by finding all the geographical communities with a benchmarked or threshold rate of murder/ violence/ vandalism, whatever you're interested in, and see what falls out as correlations on income, housing, education, race, whatever. Then look to see if there's anything in the research to help with further analysis.

Adelady, I have read so much on this topic and researched so much until I am exhausted. I see so many different angles on the subject, and yes, it does depend on who is doing the study. I do not know of a gene that makes people bad or prone to violence, I can however imagine that the Jews were terrified to be classified as wicked and useless by the Germans.

Originally Posted by Stargate

To Harold 14370

The statistics are from the FBI, who compile arrest records from various law enforcement agencies. Do you have a reason to question them?
FBI — Crime in the U.S. 2011

I have a reason to question everything; I read just like you especially the information on life on the planet. You may not know it but most of the atrocities that is perpetrated on people, not only black people, are never reported by the people who carry out the act.

What violence do you think is being perpetuated against African Americans? Why do you think that?

I don’t want you to place me in a corner and make it sound as if I am against America or Americans because I am certainly not. However, the truth must be told. I really find your question somewhat hypocritical because if you look at Caucasians in Africa you do not hear the same cry of injustice as you do in America. We are not talking about if people commit crime all over the world, we are talking about injustice to black people in America.

What makes you think Americans are more vicious or murderous than other people?

I do not think Americans are more vicious than other people but I do think they are vicious to black people. I think it relates to fear.

On what do you base that statistic?

In this case it’s hard to rely on American statistics, most times they are biased, I rely more on what I know from people and see for myself.

Please provide evidence of the majority killing minorities.

Sorry I think you are being a bit naïve, the question seems not to be coming from logical thought.

Please provide evidence that Africans have gone through thousands of years without killing each other. Africans sold slaves to the European and American slave traders. They also continued the slave trade for years after it was stopped in America and the European colonies.

Slavery is not new, the salve trade has not ended, and human beings seem to have not learned about balance. However, he who feels it knows it. What do you want me to say, continue with hatred and bigotry. Black and white people are people; no one should be treated other than how you want to be treated. Do you think we are going to get a good story from the aggressor? The victor writes the history.

maybe we need to clarify if we are talking about the past or the present. Black people were treated badly in the past but that is not the case now.

In this case it’s hard to rely on American statistics, most times they are biased, I rely more on what I know from people and see for myself.

Good grief. That is the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time.

Originally Posted by Strange

In this case it’s hard to rely on American statistics, most times they are biased, I rely more on what I know from people and see for myself.

Good grief. That is the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time.

You should notice I said in this case not in all cases, how could it be other wise? I use American statstics all the time. I am sure you are dumb sometimes?

Originally Posted by seagypsy

Originally Posted by Stargate

To Harold 14370

The statistics are from the FBI, who compile arrest records from various law enforcement agencies. Do you have a reason to question them?
FBI — Crime in the U.S. 2011

I have a reason to question everything; I read just like you especially the information on life on the planet. You may not know it but most of the atrocities that is perpetrated on people, not only black people, are never reported by the people who carry out the act.

What violence do you think is being perpetuated against African Americans? Why do you think that?

I don’t want you to place me in a corner and make it sound as if I am against America or Americans because I am certainly not. However, the truth must be told. I really find your question somewhat hypocritical because if you look at Caucasians in Africa you do not hear the same cry of injustice as you do in America. We are not talking about if people commit crime all over the world, we are talking about injustice to black people in America.

What makes you think Americans are more vicious or murderous than other people?

I do not think Americans are more vicious than other people but I do think they are vicious to black people. I think it relates to fear.

On what do you base that statistic?

In this case it’s hard to rely on American statistics, most times they are biased, I rely more on what I know from people and see for myself.

Please provide evidence of the majority killing minorities.

Sorry I think you are being a bit naïve, the question seems not to be coming from logical thought.

Please provide evidence that Africans have gone through thousands of years without killing each other. Africans sold slaves to the European and American slave traders. They also continued the slave trade for years after it was stopped in America and the European colonies.

Slavery is not new, the salve trade has not ended, and human beings seem to have not learned about balance. However, he who feels it knows it. What do you want me to say, continue with hatred and bigotry. Black and white people are people; no one should be treated other than how you want to be treated. Do you think we are going to get a good story from the aggressor? The victor writes the history.

maybe we need to clarify if we are talking about the past or the present. Black people were treated badly in the past but that is not the case now.

Yes, its gotten a lot better because some of the younger people are realising that is not making any sense.

I agree with Harold that the black community has a crime problem in the united states. It seems some may be assuming he meant that they are having a problem because they are black and predisposed to being violent. I didn't not read that in his words nor did I detect any implication that that is what he meant. He was simply stating a fact that there is a disproportionate amount of crime in the black community in the USA. He stated no cause for it.

I think Adelady and Lynx are the only ones that suggested viable reasons for it and none of them were genetic or in conflict with anything Harold said. It is true that economic status can and does more often than not present as an indicator for potential for criminal behavior. I remember my greatgrandmother used to slip me a dollar if she knew I was going to walk to town with friends. She said it would keep me honest. I didn't really know what she meant at the time (I was only 7) but as I grew older I observed among my friends that if they had money in their pocket they were less likely to shoplift. Why steal if you can pay for something?

And yes the past is relevant to a point in regards to the black community in the USA. The people here today are descendents of those who were viciously oppressed. Some members of older generations, especially those in the poor communities who were unable to overcome the past, tend to constantly remind the younger generations of what they endured and actively do what they can to manipulate the perspectives of the younger ones so that they will also view white people as oppressors rather than acknowledging that the white people alive today were never slave owners and very few that were involved in the kkk during the 60's hold any sort of political power anymore. They refuse to acknowledge that the majority of white people have no desire to oppress or victimize black people. So they are actually perpetrating racism against whites and behaviors follow suit. Some of these behaviors lead to the inability to succeed in jobs and so the economic depression continues putting them at higher risk to commit crime.

You see higher crime in poor white neighborhoods as well. But white people do not have a past of being oppressed so the majority of white people are able to be successful because they do not have a generational perspective of oppression and hopelessness. They know they can succeed and so if they fail, they are less able to justify their failures as being the result of a racial conspiracy. So they are less able to pass on a generational delusion of hopelessness.

My first husband was black, my children from that marriage identify as black. I am white and I am the one who has been raising them because he walked out on them when they were toddlers. He resurfaced a few years ago and I allowed him an opportunity to get to know his sons. He is a 55 year old black man who is living on public assistance and always has. He immediately took to dashing our sons dreams of career success by telling them they could never be anything because the white man won't let them. He sabotaged their schooling and was physically and emotionally abusive to our younger son because he appeared to be more Caucasian than African America. I got them back when I realized what he was doing and now I am repairing the damage and they are hopefully back on track.

They had no negative attitudes towards black people before living with him. And I have often lived in poor predominately black neighborhoods without any problems. But now they dislike black people and avoid interacting with them. And they get very nervous if I take a short cut through a poor black neighborhood. I did not teach them fear. I did not teach them to be racist against black people. They learned that from they own black father. Unfortunately, among poor black middle aged and elderly people, their father's attitude is quite common. And it is what creates the desperate personality that leads to criminal behavior.

Well most of the wealth in America is held by whites, who even per-capita would hold more wealth still than blacks. Wealth is the predominate metric in evaluating success in this nation and typically if you have a lot of money you don't want to get into trouble with the law. Excluding white-collar crimes it's generally, wealthy individuals are far-less likely to engage in violent crime. I think this is indicative of the behavior of many blacks in America because there are far more of them living in poverty than many other races, specifically whites. In many cases, even with the accumulation of wealth many African Americans will still end up in poverty due to the lack of financial education. ESPN recently did a report on this.

It's a big socioeconomic problem because many African Americans who live in a ghetto would likely spend any wealth they accumulated on unnecessary items like a nicer car, bling, etc. They do so because having grown up in a ghetto, they don't have access to the kinds of possibilities many other folks normally take for granted. My friend was a street preacher in LA for two years and slept on the streets getting to know these folks. I went down to visit him and sleep on the streets for a few nights and he took me through Compton and other areas that are your stereotypical ghetto and we saw that while houses would have bars over every window, yards in disarray, and roofs falling apart, they would have brand new vehicles in the drive-way. Many of those folks would repeat the same thing to us: looks are everything. Having grown up in a ghetto myself I could understand that.

Unless you have the right education and financial power, it's very hard to get out of the ghetto-lifestyle which is typically overrun with violence.

Originally Posted by seagypsy

I agree with Harold that the black community has a crime problem in the united states. It seems some may be assuming he meant that they are having a problem because they are black and predisposed to being violent. I didn't not read that in his words nor did I detect any implication that that is what he meant. He was simply stating a fact that there is a disproportionate amount of crime in the black community in the USA. He stated no cause for it.

I don't know what the genetic component might be, if any. I think it is more a cultural phenomenon than anything. Black immigrants raised elsewhere do not seem to have the same ghetto attitude.
I question the idea that poverty or racism is the cause. I grew up at a time when the racism was much more open and blatant. Blacks did not swim in the same swimming pools as whites. This was in the North, not the South. Certainly there was just as much or more black poverty, but I don't remember the crime being as bad back then. I don't have any statistics to prove that. It's just my impression.

I think the welfare system created in the sixties had a lot to do with it. It rewarded single motherhood, and more or less forced the fathers out of the household.

Sg.
I totally agree with what you say. There are endless problems there is no denying that; a lot of black men do not look after their children and because there are so many there is a problem. My take on it is, it is not a race problem but a social one. I could give you some statistic where black people do much better in Europe, not because some of the people are white but there is a better distribution of wealth not based on color. Black people in America have become so paranoid, that a lot of them are copying the same attitude that shifted them in the first place. I have lived in both places and when it comes to the race problem I would chose Europe any day over America. The younger children who most times have to deal with racism on a day to day basis are rejecting it because some of them are realizing that the problem is not race but mostly economics. I go to Africa and the same problem exists with the Americans even in trade. I just feel it is time for a country like America who wants the world to see them as a so called first world nation to stop and listen to what people are saying, or even to the younger ones. We talk about the magnificent things that humans have achieved, but we have not achieved anything until we can look each other in the eye and recognize that we are people of different cultures not races. I do get somewhat frustrated when I hear that black people have a gene that makes them violent, I consider that to be otter nonsense, if it were so Europeans would be dead from that gene because of their past history.

There is no question that there are endless problems in African American communities, however it is time to put the stupidity behind us and the US stop trying to be supremacist, that illusion is killing us.

Originally Posted by Harold14370

Originally Posted by seagypsy

I agree with Harold that the black community has a crime problem in the united states. It seems some may be assuming he meant that they are having a problem because they are black and predisposed to being violent. I didn't not read that in his words nor did I detect any implication that that is what he meant. He was simply stating a fact that there is a disproportionate amount of crime in the black community in the USA. He stated no cause for it.

I don't know what the genetic component might be, if any. I think it is more a cultural phenomenon than anything. Black immigrants raised elsewhere do not seem to have the same ghetto attitude.
I question the idea that poverty or racism is the cause. I grew up at a time when the racism was much more open and blatant. Blacks did not swim in the same swimming pools as whites. This was in the North, not the South. Certainly there was just as much or more black poverty, but I don't remember the crime being as bad back then. I don't have any statistics to prove that. It's just my impression.

I think the welfare system created in the sixties had a lot to do with it. It rewarded single motherhood, and more or less forced the fathers out of the household.

Harold, there is no genetic component. The welfare system was a farce in the first place, what it did was separated the fathers from the mothers and things went terribly wrong. There is too much inequality based on race. I would almost put my head on the block that if the system was more equal the problem would be much less. Using the minority card is terrible wrong, and making the "N" word a crime otter stupidity. The south of America was where the moors who were not slaves lived; there was not so much violence there because there were not so many Caucasian people. I do not know of anywhere in Africa where whites are not welcomed, think about that.

Originally Posted by Eighty88

Well most of the wealth in America is held by whites, who even per-capita would hold more wealth still than blacks. Wealth is the predominate metric in evaluating success in this nation and typically if you have a lot of money you don't want to get into trouble with the law. Excluding white-collar crimes it's generally, wealthy individuals are far-less likely to engage in violent crime. I think this is indicative of the behavior of many blacks in America because there are far more of them living in poverty than many other races, specifically whites. In many cases, even with the accumulation of wealth many African Americans will still end up in poverty due to the lack of financial education. ESPN recently did a report on this.

It's a big socioeconomic problem because many African Americans who live in a ghetto would likely spend any wealth they accumulated on unnecessary items like a nicer car, bling, etc. They do so because having grown up in a ghetto, they don't have access to the kinds of possibilities many other folks normally take for granted. My friend was a street preacher in LA for two years and slept on the streets getting to know these folks. I went down to visit him and sleep on the streets for a few nights and he took me through Compton and other areas that are your stereotypical ghetto and we saw that while houses would have bars over every window, yards in disarray, and roofs falling apart, they would have brand new vehicles in the drive-way. Many of those folks would repeat the same thing to us: looks are everything. Having grown up in a ghetto myself I could understand that.

Unless you have the right education and financial power, it's very hard to get out of the ghetto-lifestyle which is typically overrun with violence.

You know there is an underlying truth that if you look closely you will see that the US system is not really equal in terms of poverty. There are so many white people who are poor, but unfortunately they also look down on black people because they feel they are better. I would suggest they feel so because the system wants it that way. Africans are not poor; they possess more material wealth than any other country on the planet. Most of the raw material that is used in technology today is stolen or under paid for; the problem would be kept under control if equality was the name of the game. We people on the planet through greed have created a whole lot of the problems ourselves with ideas that some are better than others.

I think it is more a cultural phenomenon than anything. Black immigrants raised elsewhere do not seem to have the same ghetto attitude.

For a really interesting take on this, I can't recommend Thomas Sowell's Black Rednecks and White Liberals strongly enough. Reasonable overview at wiki Black Rednecks and White Liberals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are pdfs of the essay online. But I'd recommend the whole book. The essay on Jews starts with an excellent perspective of the role of "middlemen" in various circumstances, which gives your whole view of economics and politics in different parts of the world a slightly different twist. And the others are also worth reading as thinking food even if you disagree with his particular take on the topic.

I might be quite contraversial here and suggest that though a history, racism then prejudice may have existed in America in the past and this has disadvantaged black people in general because of it, it's probarbly simply not the case anymore today. What I would say is people's attitudes are far less to do with racism and much more to do with the reality of what they see around them and on their television screens. This means that ordinary people are going think that people who come from poorer backgrounds are more likely to be criminals, if these are the people they are seeing or are being told are committing the majority of the crimes taking place. If people choose to look and adopt the same attitudes and manerisms as criminals or people who the public believe to be criminals then surely ordinary people are going to think they are criminals and be scared of them or think they might get robbed or burgled.

The point is this that regardless of past histories people still have a choice about how they choose to behave and how they wish to be percieved by others, this is not a race issue it's to do with attitude and applies equally to the white and hispanic communities. If people choose to look and or act like criminals then that's what other people will see, you simply cannot blame them for that.

Now there are plenty of people from poor backgrounds across all races that are really making an effort to bring up their children in the right way, that don't allow them to get involved in petty crime, dress or behave like gangsters and they expect them to work to the best of their ability in school. These are the type of people which are respected across all communities regardless of race. It should be a case of people of all races, regardless of their finances, having enough self respect to behave in a way which not only earns but commands the respect of others.

The whole idea of the race issue is being far to over used to attribute blame to people or make excuses for unacceptable behaviour. There should be none of this talk of people from certain racial backgrounds given either harsh or favourable treatment, instead people all treated fairly and equally and the real issues of deprivation and poverty addressed and on that very same fair and equal basis. Then things will even themselves out anyway because since many black people are disproportionally poorer they would recieve the most help as help could be targeted at the poorest and those most in need.

Surely we shouldn't even really be needing to discuss race in the 21st century, all normal right thinking people know that racism and racial prejudice is wrong. So the problem isn't racism any more, but there is still a problem of perception of racism.

Originally Posted by Stargate

Harold, there is no genetic component.

Maybe. Probably. But I don't know how people can say things like this about human behavior with such certainty. All we know for sure is that behavior is a result of some combination of nature and nurture.

The welfare system was a farce in the first place, what it did was separated the fathers from the mothers and things went terribly wrong. There is too much inequality based on race. I would almost put my head on the block that if the system was more equal the problem would be much less. Using the minority card is terrible wrong, and making the "N" word a crime otter stupidity. The south of America was where the moors who were not slaves lived;

Do you mean South America or southern US? I don't think there were too many free blacks in the south before the Civil War.

there was not so much violence there because there were not so many Caucasian people. I do not know of anywhere in Africa where whites are not welcomed, think about that.

Really? I'm pretty sure I've heard about whites being murdered in South Africa and Zimbabwe.

Originally Posted by someguy1

Back in the day, organized crime was run by Italians and Jews. Are those races more violent too?

No, just better organised.

As to the alleged race issue between whites and blacks, this will cease to be a problem in the US when demographic trends place Hispanics in the majority and the other two 'races' disappear in a polyglot genetic cacophony.

The most reasonable conclusion from the many studies that exist is, as several poster have pointed out, that the overwhelming control is one of poverty and social history.

Originally Posted by Stargate

You know there is an underlying truth that if you look closely you will see that the US system is not really equal in terms of poverty. There are so many white people who are poor, but unfortunately they also look down on black people because they feel they are better. I would suggest they feel so because the system wants it that way.

And you don't think black folks think the same as their white counterparts? Why do you think the "system" wants it that way? What is the system in this scenario?



Cheers!

Originally Posted by Eighty88

Originally Posted by Stargate

You know there is an underlying truth that if you look closely you will see that the US system is not really equal in terms of poverty. There are so many white people who are poor, but unfortunately they also look down on black people because they feel they are better. I would suggest they feel so because the system wants it that way.

And you don't think black folks think the same as their white counterparts? Why do you think the "system" wants it that way? What is the system in this scenario?



Cheers!

I just don't accept that there are that many people who base their opinions on racial prejudice, I can't see either white or black people thinking they are better than others purely on the basis of race alone. We are constantly told about all this racism, but how many racists do you know?, surely most people spend their time going out of their way to avoid being racist rather than the other way round.

Originally Posted by Duke Mocoy

Hello again fellow science members.

I have a question because I have limited time to do some research. Is it known that African Americans are genetically more violent? I was looking at the crime rates in America and it reports how African Americans cause a lot more crime than other races by a longshot. Now I am not saying that every African American is bad or violent, but I was thinking, could they have a higher sense of aggression because of their history and ancestors in Africa? Even in ancient times Africans were known to fight each others tribes aggressively. Do African Americans have genes or chrosmosomes that could have an increase in aggression?

Yes, you could say it is peer pressure and cultural influence, but overtime we slowly evolve and I wonder if there is a gene or chromosome that increase aggression in people that have it. Not mental illness but genes thatr doesn't hinder the mind.

They certainly could be predisposed to violence but you can't deny culture AT ALL. We just gotta all learn to be careing regardless. It's the only way out.

We are constantly told about all this racism, but how many racists do you know?

My mum. A couple of neighbours. A good few of the people I used to work with. And quite a few "selective" racists - I remember vividly helping a friend move into a house. She'd previously rattled on quite a lot about how her family were racist because of their opinions about Asians.

Then we got stuck into cleaning the kitchen cupboards. And there was a smell of garlic. Shock, horror!!

And the vile stuff that spewed out of her mouth about Greeks and Italians was more or less a carbon copy of the sorts of things she'd complained about her parents saying about Asians. And I've known a few others. Perfectly reasonable until you accidentally stumble across them making horrible jokes about a particular group or definitive, everybody-knows-this, prejudiced statements about another group.

I work in a large retail store. It's easy to feel hate for some race group until you encounter one of them who is polite and lacking ego arrogance. Then you think "wait a minute. It all depends on how a person acts. Everyperson has feelings of love for family and feels the same pains." If you find it easy to get angry towards people force yourself to find reasons to love those you hate and see what happens.

Originally Posted by adelady

I think it is more a cultural phenomenon than anything. Black immigrants raised elsewhere do not seem to have the same ghetto attitude.

For a really interesting take on this, I can't recommend Thomas Sowell's Black Rednecks and White Liberals strongly enough. Reasonable overview at wiki Black Rednecks and White Liberals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are pdfs of the essay online. But I'd recommend the whole book. The essay on Jews starts with an excellent perspective of the role of "middlemen" in various circumstances, which gives your whole view of economics and politics in different parts of the world a slightly different twist. And the others are also worth reading as thinking food even if you disagree with his particular take on the topic.

The final essay features Sowell's criticism of multiculturalism. Sowell argues that historical events cannot properly be understood through the attitudes of someone living in a different time period (e.g., viewing slavery as right or wrong through 21st century attitudes) but can only be properly understood in light of the economic, political, and social views of the time period in which the events occurred.

Adelady, I really think this is well said from the link you provided. I also think this is a place to start, although know we are some distance away. In the final analysis we humans have to come to some self-realization that we are one body trying to destroy our earth being. Our bodies consist of organs and they have to work harmoniously together, if we cannot, the body dies and change takes place on its own terms. We humans are made up of diverse cultures , each contributing to the wellbeing of our selves, and ultimately the planet. We must realize when we are damaging ourselves, if we cannot, we are terminally ill.

We can't understand or fully accept other people until we realise how we come to identify people and groups as "other".

Seeing as you all need a hobby, I'd suggest a thorough reading of Mary Douglas's Purity and Danger: An Analysis of Concepts of Pollution and Taboo. It's not chatty or light-hearted, it's more the traditional dry and academic style, but it's her best known book. Reading any Douglas publication is pretty good for your intro to cultural studies, but this is the one that most people reference.

Harold, I am sure you are not speaking about other people when you say 'we' I am a human, and I am saying it. I am not running away from myself. Everything is valuable to me. What do you mean by nature and nature? Nature does not address color, or people in terms of race, but people do.

Maybe. Probably. But I don't know how people can say things like this about human behavior with such certainty. All we know for sure is that behavior is a result of some combination of nature and nurture.

Do you mean South America or southern US? I don't think there were too many free blacks in the south before the Civil War.

The first people in the southern states of America were Moorish people, not Indians. There were never a lot of black people in the northern states. I am open to correction if it’s not so.

Really? I'm pretty sure I've heard about whites being murdered in South Africa and Zimbabwe.

Let's play a game. You are a White South African; you have lived in Africa and on your land for thousands of years through your ancestors. One day a community of black unknown people from another culture come onto your shores; they decide to take all your freedom away, and turn you into slaves. The tools and weapons they brought with them, you do not have because the society you live in did not need them. You find yourself exposed to annihilation, you protect your very soul by protecting yourself and in the process some of your black attackers die. It gets even worst they now put you to slavery. Need I say more?

Originally Posted by Ascended

Originally Posted by Eighty88

Originally Posted by Stargate

You know there is an underlying truth that if you look closely you will see that the US system is not really equal in terms of poverty. There are so many white people who are poor, but unfortunately they also look down on black people because they feel they are better. I would suggest they feel so because the system wants it that way.

And you don't think black folks think the same as their white counterparts? Why do you think the "system" wants it that way? What is the system in this scenario?



Cheers!

I just don't accept that there are that many people who base their opinions on racial prejudice, I can't see either white or black people thinking they are better than others purely on the basis of race alone. We are constantly told about all this racism, but how many racists do you know?, surely most people spend their time going out of their way to avoid being racist rather than the other way round.

There should not be a need for anyone to go out of their way to prove not to be a racist. Everyone should be recognized by culture. Yes I agree with you on the level that we are constantly reminded that we must differentiate by race and not culture. White people and black people are people, it is not necessary to look at a person and judge them by color, that is sick, and needs attention. We cannot inflict damage on other cultures and think it will not matter.

Sadly I know a lot of people who are fooled by the system that the white race is superior, yet there are so many millions of white people who do not want to partake of that crap.

There is racism on both sides. I find it interesting that some people think that only one side of a race issue is capable of being racist. My first husband used to say all the time that black people CAN'T be racist because they are black. He thinks minorities are immune to holding idiotic perspectives. I thought it was just him but I run into that mindset a lot. And it isn't always just poor dejected black people that seem to think that. There are the PC police that seem to think that too. I had a few school officials growing up that would punish white kids for saying anything that could remotely be skewed into being a racist remark, once even for just calling a black kid "black" when asked to describe who assaulted him. But black kids were rarely punished for racist behavior and could call white people racial slurs right in front of these same officials. When reported they said it was silly to accuse black kids of racist behavior because black kids are the minority, they can't be racist. I never heard a more retarded statement in my life.

But many people still act as if it is true even if they don't directly say it. I think that is why you don't have many white people reporting racist acts against them.

If a gang of white guys beats a black guy up they call it a hate crime based on race. But if a white guy gets beat up by a gang of black guys, people jump to the defense of the black guys and say the white guy probably used a racial slur against them and so it's his fault. The racist belief held by many people, both black and white, is that all white people are likely to be racist against black people. They don't say it with their words but they say it with their actions.

For instance the trayvon martin case. If it had been a black guy that killed a white kid, no race issues would have been brought up, but since it was a guy who appeared to be white that killed a black kid, everyone accused him of doing it with racist intent.

Originally Posted by Stargate

Harold, I am sure you are not speaking about other people when you say 'we' I am a human, and I am saying it. I am not running away from myself. Everything is valuable to me. What do you mean by nature and nature? Nature does not address color, or people in terms of race, but people do.

Nature and nurture. Nature is genes, nurture is life experiences. Both contribute to behavior. Humans are not identical, so I don't see a reason why some group of humans is assumed to be identical to some other group of humans.

Maybe. Probably. But I don't know how people can say things like this about human behavior with such certainty. All we know for sure is that behavior is a result of some combination of nature and nurture.

Do you mean South America or southern US? I don't think there were too many free blacks in the south before the Civil War.

The first people in the southern states of America were Moorish people, not Indians. There were never a lot of black people in the northern states. I am open to correction if it’s not so.

Where did you get this crazy idea?

Really? I'm pretty sure I've heard about whites being murdered in South Africa and Zimbabwe.

Let's play a game. You are a White South African; you have lived in Africa and on your land for thousands of years through your ancestors. One day a community of black unknown people from another culture come onto your shores; they decide to take all your freedom away, and turn you into slaves. The tools and weapons they brought with them, you do not have because the society you live in did not need them. You find yourself exposed to annihilation, you protect your very soul by protecting yourself and in the process some of your black attackers die. It gets even worst they now put you to slavery. Need I say more?

Wait a minute. First you said whites were welcomed in Africa, now you are saying why it is all right to kill them.

When reported they said it was silly to accuse black kids of racist behavior because black kids are the minority, they can't be racist.

Ridiculous. That's a silly importing of a technical sociological term into ordinary conversation. Most people use racist, sexist and the like as synonymous with prejudiced or bigoted or chauvinistic in daily life. The dictionary certainly doesn't restrict itself to the technical definition.

The fact that racism and sexism are particular, explicitly defined, concepts about power relationships in sociology is entirely separate from that.

(The important thing being that minority or subordinate groups lacking power compared to others means, in sociology, that their expressions of prejudice have no social power to damage the other groups. But kids in schoolyards aren't writing scholarly treatises on the relative disadvantages of various social groups. It's totally legitimate for them to use racist and prejudiced interchangeably, just as the dictionary indicates.)

Originally Posted by Ascended

Originally Posted by Eighty88

Originally Posted by Stargate

You know there is an underlying truth that if you look closely you will see that the US system is not really equal in terms of poverty. There are so many white people who are poor, but unfortunately they also look down on black people because they feel they are better. I would suggest they feel so because the system wants it that way.

And you don't think black folks think the same as their white counterparts? Why do you think the "system" wants it that way? What is the system in this scenario?



Cheers!

I just don't accept that there are that many people who base their opinions on racial prejudice, I can't see either white or black people thinking they are better than others purely on the basis of race alone. We are constantly told about all this racism, but how many racists do you know?, surely most people spend their time going out of their way to avoid being racist rather than the other way round.

Most people certainly do, but there are plenty of others who feel a sense of superiority over others. Having been raised in a ghetto that was majorly Latino I experienced a lot of it. One common belief that many of them held was that we (whites) were intentionally holding them (Latinos) back because we were afraid of them. It's a level of irrational thinking that runs deep in many areas of the country.

Originally Posted by seagypsy

There is racism on both sides. I find it interesting that some people think that only one side of a race issue is capable of being racist. My first husband used to say all the time that black people CAN'T be racist because they are black. He thinks minorities are immune to holding idiotic perspectives. I thought it was just him but I run into that mindset a lot. And it isn't always just poor dejected black people that seem to think that. There are the PC police that seem to think that too. I had a few school officials growing up that would punish white kids for saying anything that could remotely be skewed into being a racist remark, once even for just calling a black kid "black" when asked to describe who assaulted him. But black kids were rarely punished for racist behavior and could call white people racial slurs right in front of these same officials. When reported they said it was silly to accuse black kids of racist behavior because black kids are the minority, they can't be racist. I never heard a more retarded statement in my life.

But many people still act as if it is true even if they don't directly say it. I think that is why you don't have many white people reporting racist acts against them.

If a gang of white guys beats a black guy up they call it a hate crime based on race. But if a white guy gets beat up by a gang of black guys, people jump to the defense of the black guys and say the white guy probably used a racial slur against them and so it's his fault. The racist belief held by many people, both black and white, is that all white people are likely to be racist against black people. They don't say it with their words but they say it with their actions.

For instance the trayvon martin case. If it had been a black guy that killed a white kid, no race issues would have been brought up, but since it was a guy who appeared to be white that killed a black kid, everyone accused him of doing it with racist intent.

People are people, we all live on the same planet, we are all good, better, best, and worst, nothing should be based on race. We the older people are the ones to bring up our children; it should not be on hand of race but on the diversities abundant on our planet. There is a tremendous effort to divide us, we have to ask for what reason and what benefit.

Wait a minute. First you said whites were welcomed in Africa, now you are saying why it is all right to kill them.

Harold, you seem not to be understanding what is being said. Where did you read that I said it’s alright to kill anybody? That does not make sense does it? In general people kill people, not black kill white. You have to understand, even if white or any culture is welcomed in Africa, out of respect no one should just barge in and take over.

Originally Posted by Eighty88

Originally Posted by Ascended

Originally Posted by Eighty88

Originally Posted by Stargate

You know there is an underlying truth that if you look closely you will see that the US system is not really equal in terms of poverty. There are so many white people who are poor, but unfortunately they also look down on black people because they feel they are better. I would suggest they feel so because the system wants it that way.

And you don't think black folks think the same as their white counterparts? Why do you think the "system" wants it that way? What is the system in this scenario?



Cheers!

I just don't accept that there are that many people who base their opinions on racial prejudice, I can't see either white or black people thinking they are better than others purely on the basis of race alone. We are constantly told about all this racism, but how many racists do you know?, surely most people spend their time going out of their way to avoid being racist rather than the other way round.

Most people certainly do, but there are plenty of others who feel a sense of superiority over others. Having been raised in a ghetto that was majorly Latino I experienced a lot of it. One common belief that many of them held was that we (whites) were intentionally holding them (Latinos) back because we were afraid of them. It's a level of irrational thinking that runs deep in many areas of the country.

Whenever it gets so bad that you lose self-esteem, you are in trouble. Even politics must be people oriented, but most times it is not.
.

Originally Posted by Stargate

Wait a minute. First you said whites were welcomed in Africa, now you are saying why it is all right to kill them.

Harold, you seem not to be understanding what is being said. Where did you read that I said it’s alright to kill anybody? That does not make sense does it? In general people kill people, not black kill white. You have to understand, even if white or any culture is welcomed in Africa, out of respect no one should just barge in and take over.

I think I understood you pretty well. You said whites were welcome everywhere in Africa. Then you gave an example of whites who were not welcome everywhere in Africa. Those would be the descendants of people who "barged in and took over." Right?

[QUOTE=Harold14370;474175]

Originally Posted by Stargate

Wait a minute. First you said whites were welcomed in Africa, now you are saying why it is all right to kill them.

Harold, you seem not to be understanding what is being said. Where did you read that I said it’s alright to kill anybody? That does not make sense does it? In general people kill people, not black kill white. You have to understand, even if white or any culture is welcomed in Africa, out of respect no one should just barge in and take over.

I think I understood you pretty well. You said whites were welcome everywhere in Africa. Then you gave an example of whites who were not welcome everywhere in Africa. Those would be the descendants of people who "barged in and took over." Right

I really gave you an example of another culture barging in without an invitation. This has nothing to do with not being welcomed.

US Slave: Florida History Built on Slavery

Originally Posted by adelady

When reported they said it was silly to accuse black kids of racist behavior because black kids are the minority, they can't be racist.

Ridiculous. That's a silly importing of a technical sociological term into ordinary conversation. Most people use racist, sexist and the like as synonymous with prejudiced or bigoted or chauvinistic in daily life. The dictionary certainly doesn't restrict itself to the technical definition.

The fact that racism and sexism are particular, explicitly defined, concepts about power relationships in sociology is entirely separate from that.

(The important thing being that minority or subordinate groups lacking power compared to others means, in sociology, that their expressions of prejudice have no social power to damage the other groups. But kids in schoolyards aren't writing scholarly treatises on the relative disadvantages of various social groups. It's totally legitimate for them to use racist and prejudiced interchangeably, just as the dictionary indicates.)

The school handbook defined racist behavior as using racial slurs or making blanketed negative remarks about entire races of people. Since "honkey", "cracker", and "whitey" were not specifically listed as racial slurs minority children were allowed to use them. But "nigger", "spick", and "coon" were listed. So only the minority races were being protected from racism. Which means minority children believed they were given the "ok" to bully white children and they often did. Luckily I did not attend that school for very long. So in order to make up for abuses from the past, descendents of those who were wronged were being given a free run to dominate and abuse the descendents of those who previously did the wrongs. I only ever experienced one school like this. But I have witnessed the mindset throughout my life in every environment.

As far as the technical sociological definition for the term racist, I doubt most Americans know that specific definition and they go by the common definition.

rac·ism
noun \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\

: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race

: the belief that some races of people are better than others
Full Definition of RACISM
1
: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2
: racial prejudice or discrimination

-Racism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Situations like this give minority children the impression that thuggery and possibly full on criminal behavior from them is not only expected but justified.

Originally Posted by Stargate

I really gave you an example of another culture barging in without an invitation. This has nothing to do with not being welcomed.

US Slave: Florida History Built on Slavery

I see. So, to prove you have no ill will, you air another grievance.

Now, do you think white people are welcome in South Africa and Zimbabwe? I'm referring to the people who are there now. Not the bargers-in, but their descendants. Simple question.

Originally Posted by seagypsy

The school handbook defined racist behavior as using racial slurs or making blanketed negative remarks about entire races of people.

For elementary kids that's probably ok. By middle school though it should include other ways it expresses itself- such as deliberately not choosing someone for your group project or your team because of of their color, or way they talk or dress.

By high school there's more opportunity to express by unfavorable peer reviews, not helping others on group work or as part of various clubs.

By adulthood it has all sorts of forms. Just a few from my lifetime.

When I was assigned to a unit in Texas, we had to move the unit up to Fort Smith Arkansas. A couple dozen of the reservist decided to take their personal vehicles; of that group three of the six or so dark skinned soldiers stopped in the same town, their car ransacked and all their gear spread out on a wet road to "check for drugs." None of the light complected soldiers had any problems.

When I was a Battalion XO, we had a soldier file an equal opportunity complaint against a long standing (and rather well liked by command) platoon sergeant for not recommending them attend a promotion board. During the investigation it was discovered he'd never recommended anyone other than European descent soldiers for promotion despite dozens of opportunities--award recommendation showed the same pattern (which is why the military tracks both now).

And there are many other forms. A Restaurant that deliberately over salts the food when someone they don't like sits down for a meal so they don't come back.
A landlord who always finds some excuse to collect the entire deposit for the Hispanic tenants.
A city clerk who looses the permit paperwork several times for when person for a group he doesn't like tries to start a business, or build a deck on their home.
A representative who vigorously argues that felons never get a chance to vote to deliberately lower that demographic voting turnout; the the same representative who tries to reduce voting hours because they know the group is concentrated on the other side of a bridge and is going to have to leave work early to make it.
Or the supervisor who picks the Asian book keeper mostly because he thinks they are good at math, despite the European descent applicant who had the same or better qualifications.

Racism takes all sorts of forms, some obvious, some not so obvious and the result of bias many of us carry but aren't even aware of. Even in subtle forms they often lead to oppression that makes success more difficult than it should be in disadvantaged neighborhoods.

Originally Posted by Harold14370

Originally Posted by Stargate

I really gave you an example of another culture barging in without an invitation. This has nothing to do with not being welcomed.

US Slave: Florida History Built on Slavery

I see. So, to prove you have no ill will, you air another grievance.

Now, do you think white people are welcome in South Africa and Zimbabwe? I'm referring to the people who are there now. Not the bargers-in, but their descendants. Simple question.

You don't seem to understand what I am saying. It’s not just about South Africa and Zimbabwe; it’s about racial discrimination period. What I thought the OP was talking about the problem in America; you are shifting it to something else that is another discussion.
This is not about any one group, it is about our sick state of affairs today, black people are not superior or any other group and we should stop putting up the lies and begin to respect people. We are claiming technology to be at a peak and knowledge for everyone but our social order on planet earth has not developed enough to claim these so called achievements. It matters not about how much material gain one has if we cannot share it with humanity.

Originally Posted by adelady

We are constantly told about all this racism, but how many racists do you know?

My mum. A couple of neighbours. A good few of the people I used to work with. And quite a few "selective" racists - I remember vividly helping a friend move into a house. She'd previously rattled on quite a lot about how her family were racist because of their opinions about Asians.

Then we got stuck into cleaning the kitchen cupboards. And there was a smell of garlic. Shock, horror!!

And the vile stuff that spewed out of her mouth about Greeks and Italians was more or less a carbon copy of the sorts of things she'd complained about her parents saying about Asians. And I've known a few others. Perfectly reasonable until you accidentally stumble across them making horrible jokes about a particular group or definitive, everybody-knows-this, prejudiced statements about another group.

I guess we each have different life experiences, I just don't see this level of racism so I guess in some ways it's quite hard to really accept or to understand it that it exists or why. I always kind of thought that racism was routed in ignorance a failure of understanding or empathy for those of another race or an indoctrination that has reinforced racial prejudices. But I just don't see these kinds of attitudes or behaviours being allowed to exist anymore, I don't see schools or communities accepting or putting up with racist attitudes nevermind outright blatant racism itself.

The idea of racism just seems like this discreditted archiac concept long since abandoned and certainly not acceptable in modern society, everyone just seems so aware of the need or wish not to offend. People have a greater level of intergration and understanding, previous levels of seperation between those of different racial backgrounds just no longer appear to exist. The point is, from my own perscective I see todays world as more enlightened and socially developed, I don't see a world that judges people on race or racial stereo types. I see people assessed and judged on the way they dress, speak, behave and their overall attitude.

Does a persons race govern any of these things, well I just don't think so. Everybody has a choice, e.g. if 3 people apply for a job each equally qualified but each of a different racial background then the candidate judged best able to fit in will get the position regardless of race. This again will be judged on their attitude and the way they are dressed and present themselves, each will have an equal chance.

What I feel is a problem is that racism is used far to often as a justification to ignore the real causes of problems, people can see it or look for it where it simply doesn't exist. What I me is it can sometimes become a self forfilling prophecy, if you look hard enough or long enough or set out with preconcieved ideas then you are bound to find or at imagine that which are looking for.

I'm not suggesting we should simply ignore the issue of racism but perhaps we don't have to automatically jump to that conclusion and we certainly don't have to go looking for it. If there is a case of racism that rears it's ugly head then it can be delt with on that particular basis, what we don't or shouldn't do is jump to the conclusion that everybody is a racist because of a few unpleasant incidents.

Politians need to take some responsibility here as well, they cannot blame social problems on racism without trying to find real solutions to actual problems because it doesn't achieve anything. How does it help any community if they are being told they are being treated unfairly, surely the only possible outcome is further dissaffection and resentment. Politians should be actively taking action to make communies more able to compete and be successful, not making political capital from the plight and problems within the communities they represent.

So yeah sure there still maybe a few racists left out there but most people just arn't racist and don't act in prejudicial ways, there is a far greater perception of racism than actual racism and only when we can all get past this damaging negative perception can we all get back to addressing the real, not imaginery, problems that affect peoples lives.

Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox

Originally Posted by seagypsy

The school handbook defined racist behavior as using racial slurs or making blanketed negative remarks about entire races of people.

For elementary kids that's probably ok. By middle school though it should include other ways it expresses itself- such as deliberately not choosing someone for your group project or your team because of of their color, or way they talk or dress.

By high school there's more opportunity to express by unfavorable peer reviews, not helping others on group work or as part of various clubs.

By adulthood it has all sorts of forms. Just a few from my lifetime.

When I was assigned to a unit in Texas, we had to move the unit up to Fort Smith Arkansas. A couple dozen of the reservist decided to take their personal vehicles; of that group three of the six or so dark skinned soldiers stopped in the same town, their car ransacked and all their gear spread out on a wet road to "check for drugs." None of the light complected soldiers had any problems.

When I was a Battalion XO, we had a soldier file an equal opportunity complaint against a long standing (and rather well liked by command) platoon sergeant for not recommending them attend a promotion board. During the investigation it was discovered he'd never recommended anyone other than European descent soldiers for promotion despite dozens of opportunities--award recommendation showed the same pattern (which is why the military tracks both now).

And there are many other forms. A Restaurant that deliberately over salts the food when someone they don't like sits down for a meal so they don't come back.
A landlord who always finds some excuse to collect the entire deposit for the Hispanic tenants.
A city clerk who looses the permit paperwork several times for when person for a group he doesn't like tries to start a business, or build a deck on their home.
A representative who vigorously argues that felons never get a chance to vote to deliberately lower that demographic voting turnout; the the same representative who tries to reduce voting hours because they know the group is concentrated on the other side of a bridge and is going to have to leave work early to make it.
Or the supervisor who picks the Asian book keeper mostly because he thinks they are good at math, despite the European descent applicant who had the same or better qualifications.

Racism takes all sorts of forms, some obvious, some not so obvious and the result of bias many of us carry but aren't even aware of. Even in subtle forms they often lead to oppression that makes success more difficult than it should be in disadvantaged neighborhoods.

Yes LF, we should be teaching our children about diversity of culture and how to respect it. Teach how important it is to be aware of our collective body (planet earth) and mind. War has never brought anything but suffering and pain, can we change it, yes certainly, we all of us can move from the pain and the negative energy we invest in keeping it alive.

Originally Posted by Stargate

[ War has never brought anything but suffering and pain,

It brought freedom to the people of Europe.

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by Harold14370

Originally Posted by Stargate

I really gave you an example of another culture barging in without an invitation. This has nothing to do with not being welcomed.

US Slave: Florida History Built on Slavery

I see. So, to prove you have no ill will, you air another grievance.

Now, do you think white people are welcome in South Africa and Zimbabwe? I'm referring to the people who are there now. Not the bargers-in, but their descendants. Simple question.

You don't seem to understand what I am saying. It’s not just about South Africa and Zimbabwe; it’s about racial discrimination period. What I thought the OP was talking about the problem in America; you are shifting it to something else that is another discussion.
This is not about any one group, it is about our sick state of affairs today, black people are not superior or any other group and we should stop putting up the lies and begin to respect people. We are claiming technology to be at a peak and knowledge for everyone but our social order on planet earth has not developed enough to claim these so called achievements. It matters not about how much material gain one has if we cannot share it with humanity.

I think the issue with what you are saying is that it is idealistic and unrealistic. The root of racism goes deep and it is part of being a pack animal, something human beings are. Other animals do the same type of sorting and ostracizing of group members who are different. One may argue that it is the root of evolution and the driving force between speciation. Its simply human nature. No matter what race you are. For all we know this fear of differences is what led to the existence of different races to begin with. May have started out with Mr and Mrs Ug giving birth to 12 children and there were 3 that came out white with blue eyes, 3 that came out black with brown eyes and curly black hair, 3 came out with reddish skin and straight black hair, and 3 came out with pale skin dark hair and mongolian folds on the eyes. The four groups sorted themselves by appearance and the groups fought among themselves so much that they had to put great distance between them. While Mr and Mrs Ug just dropped their heads in exasperation and was glad they were left alone to try and make more.

Also, most people cannot just respect people just like that. If a person is behaving in a manner that is not respectable, and it just happens to be that htey are brought up to behave a certain way because they were raised to act that way and it is a way that happens to be more frequently observed in a particular ethnic group, then it isn't likely that the respect will ever happen.

For instance, I loathe this new style of sagging pants and having your butt hanging out to the point the person dressed in such a way has to hold their pants up and walk like a duck just to keep their pants from going to the ankles. I tend have little respect for people who dress that way because I consider it to be gross, and uncouth. It is also a style associated with the thug lifestyle and is a way of expressing rebelliousness against the status quo. While I appreciate stickin' it to the man as much as the next guy, I think that is the most self denigrating manner in which to do so. And so I do not respect people who disrespect themselves by making themselves look as if they are too mentally incompetent to dress themselves properly.

Where I live the majority of people who dress this way are young low income black males. However, there are also white males of various economic backgrounds mimicking the style and I don't tend to like them either. While I won't mistreat any of them or be rude, I do tend to keep a closer eye on them when they are walking near my car. Why? Because the style is more frequent among those who participate in criminal mischief and drug use.

The black kids across the street from me accused me of being racist because I called the police on them for shooting a BB gun at my 7 and 9 year old son's who were riding their bikes. They came out and started cussing me out and threatening to assault me before the police arrived and they said they hoped a black cop would show up so I'd "find out what time it was". Fortunately it was a black cop and he despised the use of the race card but I did find myself having to prove I am not racist by having my own older blacker looking children come outside when the cops arrived which should not have been necessary. The officer said if I had any more trouble out of them, to call right away, that he gave them an official warning the next time there would be an arrest.

These same kids forgot that we moved in the same day they did and my husband and I were the only people on the street that showed them any kind of welcome. I parked their moving truck because they couldn't figure out how to back it up safely to their garage door. I helped them get the truck back out when they were done. And my husband on many occasions loaned them tools and aired up their kids tires. We only cut off hospitality when we saw how they were treating other neighbors and how they were bringing drug traffic and street fights to this normally very quiet middle class mixed heritage neighborhood. But that is an example of how some poor minorities will act like complete ass hats and then cry racism when someone complains. And if someone of their own race complains they accuse them of not being black enough or call him an uncle tom.

So much of the negative attitude is brought on themselves and against each other. Yes there is a history that led to this, but the minorities have to make as much effort to fight racism by not being racist themselves if it is going to go away. If people don't like stereotypes, they need to make more of an effort to not live up to them.

Originally Posted by John Galt

Originally Posted by Stargate

[ War has never brought anything but suffering and pain,

It brought freedom to the people of Europe.

The same is true for the United States.

In addition, though it came at a terrible price, it brought freedom to blacks in our country.

Originally Posted by John Galt

Originally Posted by Stargate

[ War has never brought anything but suffering and pain,

It brought freedom to the people of Europe.

Maybe it did for a short while, but we are on the brink of the next even more devastating one. We have gotten smarter we can kill billions now at one time.

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

Originally Posted by John Galt

Originally Posted by Stargate

[ War has never brought anything but suffering and pain,

It brought freedom to the people of Europe.

The same is true for the United States.

In addition, though it came at a terrible price, it brought freedom to blacks in our country.

It depends what you call freedom.

Sg. You seem to be picking out single instances where some black children have been showing you bad behavior. I know that is not the norm. There are endless black people and white ones who will not put up with any kind of that kind of behavior. However, the fact remains that these behavior patterns are developed because of racism, many times racism is taught in the schools. The disorder did not come by itself. I don't care how much we try to divert the real problem; we will have to address it. I know so many instances where I have seen white people and black ones mistreat each other it’s no longer about that, it,s about where we want to go with this. I can give you no ends of examples about white people’s bad behavior, but as I said before it is people, that is not racism. There is enough blame to go around, so how do we stop and think what it’s doing to our relationship on planet earth. You say it’s not as easy as I think, well is it easier to keep it the way it is?

It depends what you call freedom.

I can't speak for black people but, as a woman, I'm pretty pleased I was born at a time when I could no longer be regarded as a possession or chattel of a man. Now that's freedom.

Originally Posted by Ascended

Originally Posted by Eighty88

Originally Posted by Stargate

You know there is an underlying truth that if you look closely you will see that the US system is not really equal in terms of poverty. There are so many white people who are poor, but unfortunately they also look down on black people because they feel they are better. I would suggest they feel so because the system wants it that way.

And you don't think black folks think the same as their white counterparts? Why do you think the "system" wants it that way? What is the system in this scenario?



Cheers!

I just don't accept that there are that many people who base their opinions on racial prejudice, I can't see either white or black people thinking they are better than others purely on the basis of race alone. We are constantly told about all this racism, but how many racists do you know?, surely most people spend their time going out of their way to avoid being racist rather than the other way round.

whats your definition of racism???

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

Originally Posted by John Galt

Originally Posted by Stargate

[ War has never brought anything but suffering and pain,

It brought freedom to the people of Europe.

The same is true for the United States.

In addition, though it came at a terrible price, it brought freedom to blacks in our country.

It depends what you call freedom.

Not being taken from their homes in Africa and put to work for no pay, beaten for little or no reason, and left completely uneducated and destitute with little hope for a meaningful life.

Originally Posted by Stargate

Sg. You seem to be picking out single instances where some black children have been showing you bad behavior. I know that is not the norm. There are endless black people and white ones who will not put up with any kind of that kind of behavior. However, the fact remains that these behavior patterns are developed because of racism, many times racism is taught in the schools. The disorder did not come by itself. I don't care how much we try to divert the real problem; we will have to address it. I know so many instances where I have seen white people and black ones mistreat each other it’s no longer about that, it,s about where we want to go with this. I can give you no ends of examples about white people’s bad behavior, but as I said before it is people, that is not racism. There is enough blame to go around, so how do we stop and think what it’s doing to our relationship on planet earth. You say it’s not as easy as I think, well is it easier to keep it the way it is?

I did not say or even imply that this bad behavior is not the result of past racism. I am simply stating that it is feeding itself. Past racism is not sustaining it. Racism is practiced by minorities just like any other race. And to say that minorities are not able to be racist is a racist statement in itself. I also never said htat white people don't act as badly. But unlike you, I said some black people and some white people. Unlike you, I am not applying a behavior pattern to all people of one race. I have been noting that more often than not, it is as adalady and lynx_fox have pointed out, more members of a socioeconomic subculture. It just so happens that because of past racism, that there is a lot of expressed racist behavior towards white people from SOME members of the black community and people who want to continue the racism while pretending to do the opposite are excusing that bad behavior and blaming it on the white people that live today. I never owned any slaves and none of the black people in the USA were ever slaves. But there is a subgroup within the black community that wants to pretend as if there is. And it is usually the least financially secure members of that community. It is usually the people who are living on welfare for little more reason than that they can. This goes for white people and black people. I hear white people on welfare say they are going to get it as long as black people do, as if they are in some sort of competition with them. And I hear black people say that the government OWES them welfare on account of slavery.

What you are not getting is that ignorance sustains itself, regardless of race. You keep saying you don't want to see blame going around but you take many opportunities to deny realities and blame white people for all the ills that are present in the black community.

Some wounds never completely heal. Once everyone who lived through the 60's and 70's has passed away, then maybe just maybe people will stop acting like its all an us against them contest. It starts out with something bad becoming socially unacceptable, and so it goes into the closet. Then because the people who are racist can't openly speak their mind without admonition they aren't easily teaching their hatred to their children. Since their children are not learning it from the parents then they aren't as likely to be racist themselves.

So one of the bigger problems we have right now is that while it is socially unacceptable for white people to be racist, too many in our society are permissive of minorities making racist remarks, especially against whites. Since relatively few in their own racial group is admonishing them for their racist remarks, they can continue to make the remarks openly and regularly in public and to their children, reinforcing a generational hatred and distrust of white people that is no longer valid or justified. But it isn't politically correct to point out the racism against white people, is it?

Originally Posted by adelady

It depends what you call freedom.

I can't speak for black people but, as a woman, I'm pretty pleased I was born at a time when I could no longer be regarded as a possession or chattel of a man. Now that's freedom.

Adelady, which is the point I am trying to make. I am a man, but I feel free when a woman says she owns herself. I could ask the question, where did this idiotic idea come from that man own woman. I don't think it matters where it came from, what matters are that woman had to fight to be recognized. For example, Einstein did not say Emc2 for woman and one for man, yet when a woman does the same work using the same energy she get paid less and have to scream on the top of her voice to be recognized. I think that all of these problems are caused from racism. If we were recognized by culture, the diversity of cultures would teach us, and not everyone copying the one thing. I agree with your statement about feeling free to be a woman, I am sure if people were to be left alone to be people, freedom would be on all our lips.

Sometimes I wonder if men and women really suit each other. Perhaps they should live next door and just visit now and then.

Sg. You are actually making my point. If we were talking about our culture the discussion would be about bad behavior of our people. We could speak about this with dignity and pride without insulting each other based on our color. I will tell you this, I have realized how damaging this racism farce is and becoming. my entire being is resisting it because I see it is leading to the destruction of the planet. We rape the earth, create things like racism, we pollute the sea, we build bombs to kill millions of people we do not know, we poison the very food change we eat. We spray the skies with poison. I can assure you its killing us and our planet. White people are not the problem; although some of the people who want it that way are white, black people is not the problem. It will eventually end up that way if we are not watchful, but it is not the problem, it’s about culture.

Originally Posted by blackscorp

Sometimes I wonder if men and women really suit each other. Perhaps they should live next door and just visit now and then.

I think it is a matter of choice. Some will love it, and some will not.

Originally Posted by Stargate

Sg. You are actually making my point. If we were talking about our culture the discussion would be about bad behavior of our people. We could speak about this with dignity and pride without insulting each other based on our color. I will tell you this, I have realized how damaging this racism farce is and becoming. my entire being is resisting it because I see it is leading to the destruction of the planet. We rape the earth, create things like racism, we pollute the sea, we build bombs to kill millions of people we do not know, we poison the very food change we eat. We spray the skies with poison. I can assure you its killing us and our planet. White people are not the problem; although some of the people who want it that way are white, black people is not the problem. It will eventually end up that way if we are not watchful, but it is not the problem, it’s about culture.

what are you saying about culture??

Originally Posted by blackscorp

Originally Posted by Stargate

Sg. You are actually making my point. If we were talking about our culture the discussion would be about bad behavior of our people. We could speak about this with dignity and pride without insulting each other based on our color. I will tell you this, I have realized how damaging this racism farce is and becoming. my entire being is resisting it because I see it is leading to the destruction of the planet. We rape the earth, create things like racism, we pollute the sea, we build bombs to kill millions of people we do not know, we poison the very food change we eat. We spray the skies with poison. I can assure you its killing us and our planet. White people are not the problem; although some of the people who want it that way are white, black people is not the problem. It will eventually end up that way if we are not watchful, but it is not the problem, it’s about culture.

what are you saying about culture??

I am saying if you dig deeper into the reason we have negatively evolved into this chaos we now have on our planet, is mainly because we have crossed delicate and sensitive cultural barriers. Culture dictates the behavior of the different people on the planet. If you picture the body with all its functions, you can compare it to culture. It is the DNA for behavior on our planet. The heart muscles are different from the muscles of the lungs, if you disturbs the muscles of the heart if affects the lung and versa visa. If you look at the word racism it has nothing to do with behavior. Culture teaches us because it is left to us by the ones who went before and are now dead. They taught us all we know.

so you say culture made us racist? you saying culture is bad..???

If you look at the word racism it has nothing to do with behavior. Culture teaches us because it is left to us by the ones who went before and are now dead. They taught us all we know.

You've got this completely inside out and upside down. What we know about cultures is that people put a lot of effort, and teach their children clearly, into identifying what is "in" - this village, this skin colour, this religion, this language - and what is "out" - that village over the hill, those lighter/ darker/ red-haired/ black-eyed colourings, those people with different beliefs/ idols/ rituals, that incomprehensible babble or inferior/ different dialect.

Racism is part and parcel of the way people identify themselves and others. If we don't acknowledge that people see and respond to such differences, we miss our best chance to teach a better way. And the same thing goes for class and gender issues. In many countries people will accept or dismiss you in 10 seconds or less just by hearing you utter a few words that inevitably identify your region of origin or your presumed status or class.

Stargate, Perhaps I have been misunderstanding your posts. I have gone back and reread your posts and have done my best to look at them as objectively as possible. Some of your wording puts me off simply because I am not an optimist, that is not your fault. I see what I see every day. I am not rich. I am among the poor community, struggling to go to school and take care of kids without any help from their father. (yes I am remarried but he is not their father)

Some of your arguments ring in tune with the arguments of apologists and pc police who make excuses for bad behavior of minorities and blame white people for everything. However it seems you have not stated the arguments EXACTLY as they have and I am at fault for reading too far into them, perhaps.

So after rereading your posts, it seems your point, without a lot of unnecessary complicated details is that racism is bad, mkay, and we need to stop racism. cuz its bad and nobody likes it.

If I am correct in this reinterpretation of what you are saying then I will concede that you are right and have nothing further to say.

Originally Posted by seagypsy

Stargate, Perhaps I have been misunderstanding your posts. I have gone back and reread your posts and have done my best to look at them as objectively as possible. Some of your wording puts me off simply because I am not an optimist, that is not your fault. I see what I see every day. I am not rich. I am among the poor community, struggling to go to school and take care of kids without any help from their father. (yes I am remarried but he is not their father)

Some of your arguments ring in tune with the arguments of apologists and pc police who make excuses for bad behavior of minorities and blame white people for everything. However it seems you have not stated the arguments EXACTLY as they have and I am at fault for reading too far into them, perhaps.

So after rereading your posts, it seems your point, without a lot of unnecessary complicated details is that racism is bad, mkay, and we need to stop racism. cuz its bad and nobody likes it.

If I am correct in this reinterpretation of what you are saying then I will concede that you are right and have nothing further to say.

Thank you Sg. We do not need racism, we will love each other if we can learn about our diverse cultures.

Originally Posted by adelady

If you look at the word racism it has nothing to do with behavior. Culture teaches us because it is left to us by the ones who went before and are now dead. They taught us all we know.

You've got this completely inside out and upside down. What we know about cultures is that people put a lot of effort, and teach their children clearly, into identifying what is "in" - this village, this skin colour, this religion, this language - and what is "out" - that village over the hill, those lighter/ darker/ red-haired/ black-eyed colourings, those people with different beliefs/ idols/ rituals, that incomprehensible babble or inferior/ different dialect.

Racism is part and parcel of the way people identify themselves and others. If we don't acknowledge that people see and respond to such differences, we miss our best chance to teach a better way. And the same thing goes for class and gender issues. In many countries people will accept or dismiss you in 10 seconds or less just by hearing you utter a few words that inevitably identify your region of origin or your presumed status or class.

Racism is part and parcel of the way people identify themselves and others

Do you mean people identify themselves by race? Do you mean, like hello my race is black? Or, I am mean, bad and ugly?


Some of these things that you are pointing out, I too I also realize; we have developed a culture to see things in a certain way, we think in that way, we plan in that way. I stand next to people and hear how they discriminate on even trivial things against one another. Culture can frighten one if it is not known. When I meet someone new, my first interest and question is, what part of the world do you come from? My second interest is, tell me something about where you come from.

Originally Posted by blackscorp

so you say culture made us racist? you saying culture is bad..???

blackscorp,

I am not sure I am understanding your question. Culture did not make us racist, we moved away from our culture and became racist. If every one respected their own culture, theywould respect the culture of others.

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by blackscorp

so you say culture made us racist? you saying culture is bad..???

blackscorp,

I am not sure I am understanding your question. Culture did not make us racist, we moved away from our culture and became racist. If every one respected their own culture, theywould respect the culture of others.

I think it totally doesn't work that way...

Originally Posted by blackscorp

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by blackscorp

so you say culture made us racist? you saying culture is bad..???

blackscorp,

I am not sure I am understanding your question. Culture did not make us racist, we moved away from our culture and became racist. If every one respected their own culture, theywould respect the culture of others.

I think it totally doesn't work that way...

No problems, tell me how it works.

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by blackscorp

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by blackscorp

so you say culture made us racist? you saying culture is bad..???

blackscorp,

I am not sure I am understanding your question. Culture did not make us racist, we moved away from our culture and became racist. If every one respected their own culture, theywould respect the culture of others.

I think it totally doesn't work that way...

No problems, tell me how it works.

well I think racism doesn't have anything to do with culture... with or without... just total nothing to do with it...

Originally Posted by blackscorp

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by blackscorp

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by blackscorp

so you say culture made us racist? you saying culture is bad..???

blackscorp,

I am not sure I am understanding your question. Culture did not make us racist, we moved away from our culture and became racist. If every one respected their own culture, theywould respect the culture of others.

I think it totally doesn't work that way...

No problems, tell me how it works.

well I think racism doesn't have anything to do with culture... with or without... just total nothing to do with it...

You said it does not work that way, I am asking how does it work? I did not detect an answer in your post for me to reply.

Originally Posted by blackscorp

well I think racism doesn't have anything to do with culture... with or without... just total nothing to do with it...

You must be using a different definition of culture than the one I use. If people grow up with and associate with other people, they tend to pick up the same ideas and beliefs. That's culture. If the other people they associate with have racist ideas, then there's a good chance of them having similar ideas.

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by blackscorp

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by blackscorp

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by blackscorp

so you say culture made us racist? you saying culture is bad..???

blackscorp,

I am not sure I am understanding your question. Culture did not make us racist, we moved away from our culture and became racist. If every one respected their own culture, theywould respect the culture of others.

I think it totally doesn't work that way...

No problems, tell me how it works.

well I think racism doesn't have anything to do with culture... with or without... just total nothing to do with it...

You said it does not work that way, I am asking how does it work? I did not detect an answer in your post for me to reply.

Actually it looks like blackscorp just said the exact same thing you did but in fewer words.

Originally Posted by Harold14370

Originally Posted by blackscorp

well I think racism doesn't have anything to do with culture... with or without... just total nothing to do with it...

You must be using a different definition of culture than the one I use. If people grow up with and associate with other people, they tend to pick up the same ideas and beliefs. That's culture. If the other people they associate with have racist ideas, then there's a good chance of them having similar ideas.

Absolutely.


We also unintentionally become racially biased just by unfamiliarity with others as well. Difficulty with recognizing the face of people from different genetic groups ("they all look the same") is well documented, but around the other groups teaches the brain and the problem fades in a few weeks. Limited cross cultural experience also creates unintentional misunderstandings, or shyness and unwillingness to engage out of fear of embarrassment. All this adds up to subtle racism both in reality and as perceived. (all this is why I am a strong advocate for cross cultural education in schools).

Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox

Originally Posted by Harold14370

Originally Posted by blackscorp

well I think racism doesn't have anything to do with culture... with or without... just total nothing to do with it...

You must be using a different definition of culture than the one I use. If people grow up with and associate with other people, they tend to pick up the same ideas and beliefs. That's culture. If the other people they associate with have racist ideas, then there's a good chance of them having similar ideas.

Absolutely.


We also unintentionally become racially biased just by unfamiliarity with others as well. Difficulty with recognizing the face of people from different genetic groups ("they all look the same") is well documented, but around the other groups teaches the brain and the problem fades in a few weeks. Limited cross cultural experience also creates unintentional misunderstandings, or shyness and unwillingness to engage out of fear of embarrassment. All this adds up to subtle racism both in reality and as perceived. (all this is why I am a strong advocate for cross cultural education in schools).

We also unintentionally become racially biased just by unfamiliarity with others as well. Difficulty with recognizing the face of people from different genetic groups

You see this is where I feel we have failed to recognize where the subtle nuances interject and lodge within the mindset.

What does it mean unfamiliarity with others? There should be a global recognition of human respect, not a facial recognition; I am sure with time the facial recognition will take place. As I mentioned before if one does not know anything about culture it can be very frightening. It is absolutely mind boggling to me that one human can be afraid of the other, how can one just hate the other.

I am saying culture is the collective behavior practiced in a group; it is used as the main pillar of behavior and order. If you can respect your own women in your culture, you can respect all women in other cultures period. I do not have to have known you for any amount of time to respect you. If you say they all look the same then you will think, and treat them all the same. Sorry not the right thing to do.

The conflation between culture and genetic groups is throwing off the discussion as well...they are not the same.

And while I agree any interaction should start with mutual respect it only goes as far as the genetic group.

" If you say they all look the same then you will think, and treat them all the same. Sorry not the right thing to do."
My point is it is completely unavoidable unless someone has been exposed to that group before--our brains need time to adjust and learn the differences within that genetic group--including past what might be the most obvious similarity which might be the skin pigmentation or whether their eye lids has single or double folds.

Lastly not all cultures deserve to be treated the same. The trick is still treating individuals fairly until they show evidence that they uniquely deserve to be treated different.

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by blackscorp

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by blackscorp

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by blackscorp

so you say culture made us racist? you saying culture is bad..???

blackscorp,

I am not sure I am understanding your question. Culture did not make us racist, we moved away from our culture and became racist. If every one respected their own culture, theywould respect the culture of others.

I think it totally doesn't work that way...

No problems, tell me how it works.

well I think racism doesn't have anything to do with culture... with or without... just total nothing to do with it...

You said it does not work that way, I am asking how does it work? I did not detect an answer in your post for me to reply.

my whole point was about culture I didn't claim that I know how it works... but what I know it aint because of culture...

Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox

The conflation between culture and genetic groups is throwing off the discussion as well...they are not the same.

And while I agree any interaction should start with mutual respect it only goes as far as the genetic group.

" If you say they all look the same then you will think, and treat them all the same. Sorry not the right thing to do."
My point is it is completely unavoidable unless someone has been exposed to that group before--our brains need time to adjust and learn the differences within that genetic group--including past what might be the most obvious similarity which might be the skin pigmentation or whether their eye lids has single or double folds.

Lastly not all cultures deserve to be treated the same. The trick is still treating individuals fairly until they show evidence that they uniquely deserve to be treated different.

I realize that there are lots of problems at the moment; however we have to set a standard of equitable behavior or even culture when we are dealing with unique groups.
You mention not all groups will be treated with respect and I agree with you. In reality respect is not something that is granted it must be earned; although I do not think what I am saying is speaking to a specific behavior but to the basic foundation of culture.
First we have to learn about self and a social order for the harmonious development of our planet.

but what I know it aint because of culture...

I gave you why I think its culture, please tell me your point of view so we can continue dialog.

Originally Posted by Stargate

but what I know it aint because of culture...

I gave you why I think its culture, please tell me your point of view so we can continue dialog.

one of the reasons is because culture changes all the time...

Originally Posted by blackscorp

Originally Posted by Stargate

but what I know it aint because of culture...

I gave you why I think its culture, please tell me your point of view so we can continue dialog.

one of the reasons is because culture changes all the time...

Could we agree on modified instead of change.

Originally Posted by Stargate

Originally Posted by blackscorp

Originally Posted by Stargate

but what I know it aint because of culture...

I gave you why I think its culture, please tell me your point of view so we can continue dialog.

one of the reasons is because culture changes all the time...

Could we agree on modified instead of change.

what's difference???

stargate, you are nitpicking, modify and change mean the same thing.

Originally Posted by seagypsy

stargate, you are nitpicking, modify and change mean the same thing.

I was thinking that totally changing a culture would not be possible.