Notices
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Mobile phones, EM radiation and brain tumours....

  1. #1 Mobile phones, EM radiation and brain tumours.... 
    Guest
    Dangers of using mobile phones,

    Although I originally put this post in genreal discussions (power station cancer) as a reply I thought it deserve a thread of it's own.

    Wadja fink?

    SOme brain tumours are known to be caused by high frequency EM radiation, that's why British Telecom engineers using the early high powered mobile phones suffered brain tumours more than the general population ( a private memo was circulated informing engineers to use landlines wherever practicable). IF these effects are cumulative (as is thought) then anyone using a mobile (even with hands free) may be investing in a lot of trouble later on.

    Having witnessed birds landing on high power microwave transmitters and just 'falling off' after a few seconds it amazes me that we give the bloody things ('mobiles') to 5 year old kids. Today if you express such doubts there is a wealth of 'scientific evidence' - produced by the phone companies to suggest otherwise, reminiscent of the same response by the tobacco companies.

    Microwave ovens operate at about 2.45Ghz what do you think 3G stands for? - yes you got it - 3GHz They have actually put your new mobile phone band in the same general class of frequencies known to efficiently cook meat. Radiation follows that wonderful inverse square law such that the closer the mobile is to your brain the more harm it may (questionably),do, If you have a mobile, use it for texts only, or short infrequent calls.


    For example,
    THe maximum permitted level of radiation leakage from a standard microwave oven is..


    "In 1971 the 5 mW/cm2 at 5 cm emission standard was adopted in Australia by the National Health and Medical Research Council [5]. In 1976 the International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) issued an emission standard of 5 mW/cm2 at 5 cm."

    The full article appears at:-
    http://www.arpansa.gov.au/pubs/emr/microwave.pdf

    Mobile phone companies quote output in +Dbm and for 3G phones this is around +27Dbm,

    They do not want you to correlate this, so I'll show you how to do it:-

    1Dbm = 1milliwatt. or mw
    +3Dbm = 2milliwatt
    Power db's = 20*log(x)
    So working backwards 27/20 = 1.35, antilog = 22.38mw

    Nice that, if your microwave leaks 1/4 of the radiation your phone generates at the same frequency, it is considered dangerous, and would fail the safety test, now how much closer to your head than 5cm can you put your phone?

    If your phone is right against your ear, then 1/2 it's radiation will be absorbed by your head, this is a little over 10mw which is still more than twice the safety limit........


    Here's another link:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4163003.stm


    Don't you just love the last quote?

    "Parents have to weigh that benefit [of using mobile phones] against any possible unknown health effects in the future."


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2 Re: Mobile phones, EM radiation and brain tumours.... 
    Forum Senior Imaplanck.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Dangers of using mobile phones,

    Although I originally put this post in genreal discussions (power station cancer) as a reply I thought it deserve a thread of it's own.

    Wadja fink?

    SOme brain tumours are known to be caused by high frequency EM radiation, that's why British Telecom engineers using the early high powered mobile phones suffered brain tumours more than the general population ( a private memo was circulated informing engineers to use landlines wherever practicable). IF these effects are cumulative (as is thought) then anyone using a mobile (even with hands free) may be investing in a lot of trouble later on.

    Having witnessed birds landing on high power microwave transmitters and just 'falling off' after a few seconds it amazes me that we give the bloody things ('mobiles') to 5 year old kids. Today if you express such doubts there is a wealth of 'scientific evidence' - produced by the phone companies to suggest otherwise, reminiscent of the same response by the tobacco companies.

    Microwave ovens operate at about 2.45Ghz what do you think 3G stands for? - yes you got it - 3GHz They have actually put your new mobile phone band in the same general class of frequencies known to efficiently cook meat. Radiation follows that wonderful inverse square law such that the closer the mobile is to your brain the more harm it may (questionably),do, If you have a mobile, use it for texts only, or short infrequent calls.


    For example,
    THe maximum permitted level of radiation leakage from a standard microwave oven is..


    "In 1971 the 5 mW/cm2 at 5 cm emission standard was adopted in Australia by the National Health and Medical Research Council [5]. In 1976 the International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) issued an emission standard of 5 mW/cm2 at 5 cm."

    The full article appears at:-
    http://www.arpansa.gov.au/pubs/emr/microwave.pdf

    Mobile phone companies quote output in +Dbm and for 3G phones this is around +27Dbm,

    They do not want you to correlate this, so I'll show you how to do it:-

    1Dbm = 1milliwatt. or mw
    +3Dbm = 2milliwatt
    Power db's = 20*log(x)
    So working backwards 27/20 = 1.35, antilog = 22.38mw

    Nice that, if your microwave leaks 1/4 of the radiation your phone generates at the same frequency, it is considered dangerous, and would fail the safety test, now how much closer to your head than 5cm can you put your phone?

    If your phone is right against your ear, then 1/2 it's radiation will be absorbed by your head, this is a little over 10mw which is still more than twice the safety limit........
    This is what I fink:
    Unless you are feeling the heat of the friction of your water molecules vibrating thus being cooked, I suggest nothing is happening and if their is any correlation what so ever I suggest its because of subconscious suggestion because so many retards associate anything with the word radiation as harmfull and dont understand how low frequency EM waves are non ionizing. I suggest the birds falling off(if it is true, have you video evidence?) is due to heat(ok or mabe the microwave oven effect), but working the inverse square law, any effect will obviously become negligible inches away.
    No offence to you dude, but even scientists question theirselves and can get swayed if enough people preach something.


    "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Albert Einstein
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Guest
    I have put up evidence which suggests that the same level of radiation as considered dangerous from a microwave, is considered safe from a phone, and invited debate.

    If your intent is to debate then do so, show me where my figures are wrong for example. Or read the whole text and note the use of (questionable) as used.But if the sum of your intelligence to debate is call all those who question your own standpoint 'retards' or say 'show me the video' then perhaps you ought to "about turn, and depart in a recprocating motion" - if it's within your capability to understand such a phrase.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Senior Imaplanck.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    I have put up evidence which suggests that the same level of radiation as considered dangerous from a microwave, is considered safe from a phone, and invited debate.

    If your intent is to debate then do so, show me where my figures are wrong for example. Or read the whole text and note the use of (questionable) as used.But if the sum of your intelligence to debate is call all those who question your own standpoint 'retards' or say 'show me the video' then perhaps you ought to "about turn, and depart in a recprocating motion" - if it's within your capability to understand such a phrase.
    [Deleted]

    Moderator edit: Imaplanck, don't insult members ad-hominem this is not acceptable.
    "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Albert Einstein
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5 Re: Mobile phones, EM radiation and brain tumours.... 
    Forum Junior Powerdoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    270
    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Dangers of using mobile phones,

    Although I originally put this post in genreal discussions (power station cancer) as a reply I thought it deserve a thread of it's own.

    Wadja fink?

    SOme brain tumours are known to be caused by high frequency EM radiation,"
    This has yet to be prove.

    The lattest article I have read on this subject on the Journal international of medecine, was made by north european scientists.
    The conclusion is that for the moment, there was absolutely no proof of a relationship of brain tumors and cell phone.
    The so called relationship between acoustic neuronima and cell phone, was a methodological bias. There is no correlation between the fact someone use his phone with it's right or left hand, and the fact that he is has a neuronima at the right or the left hear.

    We are right now, in the era, of the zero risk, and the precaution principle. If we think that something may hurt, then we have to be cautious and make prevention.

    So currently there is absolutely no proof that cell phone cause brain tumors. The contrary is also true.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Guest
    Powerdoc,

    The source of my information is the international specification for the safety of microwave ovens, it is agreed that the limit of 5mw/cm2 is the maximum allowable for a microwave oven. Checking manufacturer's specs for the phones, they at least exceed this limit by a factor of two.

    I find this an anomaly and invited comment, I accept the jury is out on this one and that there seems to be evidence for and against, I made a simple comparison to the tobacco industry. THe point of those in the mobile phone industry is "There is no hard evidence linking mobile phones to health issues" which actually means "Nobody has published proof" since if there is evidence commisioned by the phone companies they are unlikely to make this public. I do not say that evidence is being witheld.
    The 'anti' lobby is of the opinion that "IF the effects of this radiation are cumulative it is possible not enough time has elapsed for health problems to show"

    We know for a fact that large portions of the electromagnetic spectrum are harmful, the frequency that phones use is an unknown area.

    My own opinion is that large exposure to high levels of this radiation is [proven] adverse to health [Ie I can cook a chicken with it] medium power is likely to be harmful if the exposure time is long, and low power exposure is unknown.

    The fear is that since all people use these devices, if any adverse affects appear in 10-20 years, it will be difficult to find a standard population to compare with, and that other factors such as increasing pollution may also disguise the results.

    again to quote the guy from the phone company...

    "Parents have to weigh that benefit [of using mobile phones] against any possible unknown health effects in the future."

    He clearly has not ruled out the possibility of harm.

    They seem to remind me of Lead (in tins and water pipes), asbestos,cigarettes, petroleum, early products using radium, et al
    All once thought perfectly safe......
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Senior Imaplanck.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    344

    We know for a fact that large portions of the electromagnetic spectrum are harmful, the frequency that phones use is an unknown area.

    [Deleted] Visible light is higher frequency and it has no harful effect. Where do you get this clap trap from?


    My own opinion is that large exposure to high levels of this radiation is [proven] adverse to health [Ie I can cook a chicken with it] medium power is likely to be harmful if the exposure time is long, and low power exposure is unknown.
    Yes if it is cooking! then it can surely feel the heat.


    The fear is that since all people use these devices, if any adverse affects appear in 10-20 years, it will be difficult to find a standard population to compare with, and that other factors such as increasing pollution may also disguise the results.
    Yes that is all it is, fear!
    again to quote the guy from the phone company...

    "Parents have to weigh that benefit [of using mobile phones] against any possible unknown health effects in the future."

    He clearly has not ruled out the possibility of harm.

    They seem to remind me of Lead (in tins and water pipes), asbestos,cigarettes, petroleum, early products using radium, et al
    All once thought perfectly safe......
    So every thats thought to be safe, despite proper scintific knowledge to the contrary is potentially dangerous by that rationale. Jesus!
    "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Albert Einstein
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8 Re: Mobile phones, EM radiation and brain tumours.... 
    Forum Senior Imaplanck.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerdoc
    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Dangers of using mobile phones,

    Although I originally put this post in genreal discussions (power station cancer) as a reply I thought it deserve a thread of it's own.

    Wadja fink?

    SOme brain tumours are known to be caused by high frequency EM radiation,"
    This has yet to be prove.

    The lattest article I have read on this subject on the Journal international of medecine, was made by north european scientists.
    The conclusion is that for the moment, there was absolutely no proof of a relationship of brain tumors and cell phone.
    The so called relationship between acoustic neuronima and cell phone, was a methodological bias. There is no correlation between the fact someone use his phone with it's right or left hand, and the fact that he is has a neuronima at the right or the left hear.

    We are right now, in the era, of the zero risk, and the precaution principle. If we think that something may hurt, then we have to be cautious and make prevention.

    So currently there is absolutely no proof that cell phone cause brain tumors. The contrary is also true.
    Microwaves are not high frequency electromagnetic wave Insult Removed. high freq refers to gamma and x-rays.
    "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." Albert Einstein
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Junior Powerdoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    270
    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Powerdoc,

    The source of my information is the international specification for the safety of microwave ovens, it is agreed that the limit of 5mw/cm2 is the maximum allowable for a microwave oven. Checking manufacturer's specs for the phones, they at least exceed this limit by a factor of two.

    I find this an anomaly and invited comment, I accept the jury is out on this one and that there seems to be evidence for and against, I made a simple comparison to the tobacco industry. THe point of those in the mobile phone industry is "There is no hard evidence linking mobile phones to health issues" which actually means "Nobody has published proof" since if there is evidence commisioned by the phone companies they are unlikely to make this public. I do not say that evidence is being witheld.
    The 'anti' lobby is of the opinion that "IF the effects of this radiation are cumulative it is possible not enough time has elapsed for health problems to show"

    We know for a fact that large portions of the electromagnetic spectrum are harmful, the frequency that phones use is an unknown area.

    My own opinion is that large exposure to high levels of this radiation is [proven] adverse to health [Ie I can cook a chicken with it] medium power is likely to be harmful if the exposure time is long, and low power exposure is unknown.

    The fear is that since all people use these devices, if any adverse affects appear in 10-20 years, it will be difficult to find a standard population to compare with, and that other factors such as increasing pollution may also disguise the results.

    again to quote the guy from the phone company...

    "Parents have to weigh that benefit [of using mobile phones] against any possible unknown health effects in the future."

    He clearly has not ruled out the possibility of harm.

    They seem to remind me of Lead (in tins and water pipes), asbestos,cigarettes, petroleum, early products using radium, et al
    All once thought perfectly safe......
    I understand your concern
    Lead, asbestos, cigarettes, where considered to be harmless, before we discovered side effects.
    Now there is a difference : microwaves are under watch, and unfortunately it was not the case for all the stuff you mentionned. The results was millions of deaths.
    That's why in order to prevent such new disasters, the society is very cautious, with technologies who may potentially hurt health.

    So right now, after several studies, the state of the art, in health and phone is :
    - no link has been proven between phones and brain cancer
    - there isn't enough studies to prove that phone are totally harmless regarding brain tumors
    - phone cell, may stimulate the growth of brain cancer of people already having one. (but this is only a theory : no statistical studies back up this point)

    Last note : the microwaves, are belonging to the radio waves. Microwaves are dangerous for chicken, because they rise the temperature of the hydrogen atoms (or others atoms depending of the wavelenght)
    Microwaves are used in magnetic resonnance scan. You enter in a magnetic field and then you are exposed to a microwave film, exactly like in a microwave oven. Your temperature raise a little, but not enough to be cooked.
    Dispite the theorical potential risk of microwave, magnetic resonnance is better than X ray, if you use it on a regular basis
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard SkinWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Grand Prairie, TX
    Posts
    2,377
    Imaplanck,

    Please conduct yourself without personal insults on this forum.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •