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Thread: Can a human really get this fat?

  1. #1 Can a human really get this fat? 
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
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    Forklift helps 1,345-pound Saudi man get to hospital for obesity treatment.

    Forklift helps 1,300-pound Saudi man get to hospital for obesity treatment - World News


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    He could probably lift his fork perfectly well.


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  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    He could probably lift his fork perfectly well.
    Yes but can he wipe his own ass?
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Forklift helps 1,345-pound Saudi man get to hospital for obesity treatment.

    Forklift helps 1,300-pound Saudi man get to hospital for obesity treatment - World News

    Apparently, people can get this fat.
    However, I do not understand how one can let him/herself go like that.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    However, I do not understand how one can let him/herself go like that.
    That is not the only cause. Some are medical, I think. Such as Edema - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    How convenient that you have started a thread related to weight this day, Bad Robot. While I have no comment on the reasons behind this individual's weight (unless they were trying for the world record as heaviest human) I will avail myself of the opportunity to post this link on what is seriously wrong with our food supermarkets.

    https://medium.com/health-the-future/918b3d08f21f
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  8. #7  
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    Humans aren't the only animal that can get very fat.

    Fattest Cat Ever
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    However, I do not understand how one can let him/herself go like that.
    That is not the only cause. Some are medical, I think. Such as Edema - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Even if the cause is medical, then would that not become rather obvious after a certain period?
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Even if the cause is medical, then would that not become rather obvious after a certain period?
    Yeah... I dunno. I've never been a big fat guy so can't say from experience. I was just trying to give benefit of the doubt that assuming they allow themselves to get that big is not always the case or even avoidable.
    I mean, it just seems as though they wouldn't enjoy that size, being trapped somewhere, can't really be social or get a girl or go the movies, ride in a plane... public embarrassment, etc.
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  11. #10  
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    However, I do not understand how one can let him/herself go like that.
    He couldn't have done it without enabling help. He clearly couldn't get out of his own bedroom let alone walk to the kitchen and get his own food. Knees, hips and ankles are not designed to deal with those loads for simple standing and walking.

    Someone's been feeding him. Though I suspect that once you get past a certain level, all the usual endocrine and digestion and fat metabolism processes would be pretty well wrecked, so trying to manage his diet to have an effect on his weight would be a nightmare.
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    I pulled this tidbit from a link in the article in the original post. Quite fascinating to note that in two years of a calorie reduced diet (1200 calories per day) he lost over 900 lbs, or an average of 1.26 lbs per day. Wild...

    The heaviest person in medical history was Jon Brower Minnoch (USA)(1941–83), who had suffered from obesity since childhood. He was 185 cm (6 ft 1 in) tall and weighed 178 kg (392 lb or 28 st) in 1963, 317 kg (700 lb or 50 st) in 1966 and 442 kg (975 lb or 69 st 9 lb) in September 1976. In March 1978, Minnoch was admitted to University Hospital, Seattle, where consultant endocrinologist Dr Robert Schwartz calculated that Minnoch must have weighed more than 635 kg (1,400 lb or 100 st), a great deal of which was water accumulation due to his congestive heart failure.

    In order to get to University Hospital, Seattle, it took a dozen firemen and an improvized stretcher to move him from his home to a ferry-boat. When he arrived at the hospital, saturated with fluid and suffering from heart and respiratory failure, he was put in two beds lashed together. It took 13 people just to roll him over.

    After nearly two years on a diet of 1,200 calories per day, he was discharged at 216 kg (476 lb or 34 st).

    In October 1981 he had to be readmitted, after putting on over 89 kg (197 lb or 34 st).

    When he died on 10 September 1983 he weighed more than 362 kg (798 lb or 57 st).
    Heaviest man
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Humans aren't the only animal that can get very fat.

    Fattest Cat Ever

    That looks like James Bond has just deafed a super villian and his cat has stepped up to take over his evil empire
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    How would King Abdulla (sp?) have handled this case, had the guy been a WOMAN? jocular
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    How convenient that you have started a thread related to weight this day, Bad Robot. While I have no comment on the reasons behind this individual's weight (unless they were trying for the world record as heaviest human) I will avail myself of the opportunity to post this link on what is seriously wrong with our food supermarkets.

    https://medium.com/health-the-future/918b3d08f21f
    Unfortunate that the software does not allow "multiple likes"! joc
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    there is a man in another place that I chat talk in who is 500 pounds plus

    HE claims he is healthy
    and that everyone else doesn't understand his need to be this weight....when he was 600 pounds he lost 150 and said it made him sick

    He won't listen to anyone..
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    and every scientist I met in there throws him to the curb in 5 minutes

    I sometimes thinks he just likes to argue
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Apparently, people can get this fat.
    However, I do not understand how one can let him/herself go like that.
    At that weight he probably has a serious medical condition that caused the gross obesity.
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    He says he is 100% healthy
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    How convenient that you have started a thread related to weight this day, Bad Robot. While I have no comment on the reasons behind this individual's weight (unless they were trying for the world record as heaviest human) I will avail myself of the opportunity to post this link on what is seriously wrong with our food supermarkets.

    https://medium.com/health-the-future/918b3d08f21f
    I'm sorry to be difficult... But I don't really agree with that article.

    Marketers are not forcing junk food on people and hiding the healthy stuff... They are promoting What Sells. They are giving people what people want.

    And the magazines... Another perspective is it's rebelling against that anorexic super model image that society has tolerated and pushed on young girls too long. That stuff isn't healthy any more than being overweight is.
    I don't fully disagree, either. But I don't fully agree but those perspectives above are still valid.
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    and that everyone else doesn't understand his need to be this weight....when he was 600 pounds he lost 150 and said it made him sick
    I'd think it would make him sick. Anyone who loses a lot of fat has issues with various unpleasant junk that is fat soluble or accumulated in the liver. Release the fat and its accompanying nasties into the bloodstream and you will feel a bit, or a lot, unwell for a while. I know there are some "liver tonics" and "de-tox" products that shouldn't be taken when pregnant as a precaution against this sort of thing affecting the foetus.

    Quite apart from which there's the normal issues with addiction. I'd suspect he has near-addict attachments to certain foods. The loss of those could easily give you the headachey nauseous type symptoms that go with any major adjustment to metabolism.
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    How convenient that you have started a thread related to weight this day, Bad Robot. While I have no comment on the reasons behind this individual's weight (unless they were trying for the world record as heaviest human) I will avail myself of the opportunity to post this link on what is seriously wrong with our food supermarkets.

    https://medium.com/health-the-future/918b3d08f21f
    I'm sorry to be difficult... But I don't really agree with that article.

    Marketers are not forcing junk food on people and hiding the healthy stuff... They are promoting What Sells. They are giving people what people want.

    And the magazines... Another perspective is it's rebelling against that anorexic super model image that society has tolerated and pushed on young girls too long. That stuff isn't healthy any more than being overweight is.
    I don't fully disagree, either. But I don't fully agree but those perspectives above are still valid.
    Of course they are promoting what sells.

    A sugar addiction and foods with the highest profit margin/least nutritional value because they are made from the least expensive ingredients fortified with preservatives for a long shelf life. (I noticed that a big name brand of relatively benign snack food is now coming from China, to boot, formerly made in the USA. More jobs lost.)

    Stores don't make much margin on perishable products because there are significant losses to product becoming damaged and dated. There is also a government determined pricing system on milk and dairy here in Canada.

    I totally agree that the majority of obesity is a result of poor food choices and 'hand to mouth disorder'. The article is just making the point that stores are set up to make it more difficult for you to buy nutritious food than junk food. One of the competitor stores was offering a large box of Hostess Twinkies as their bonus for spending 'X' amount of dollars last week. At least our venue offers a gift card or seasonal fruit or Turkey etc. depending on the time of year.

    I don't think I have ever eaten a Twinkie as a child, certainly have never bought one and I know from research exactly what I am missing out on, lol...
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post

    I don't think I have ever eaten a Twinkie as a child, certainly have never bought one and I know from research exactly what I am missing out on, lol...
    Unless you've actually eaten one you really don't know what you are missing. But I suppose you could say almost the same thing about drugs. But I just read an article about a month ago about a new Twinkie that's supposed to be good for you.

    Now that might be worth a try?
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post

    I don't think I have ever eaten a Twinkie as a child, certainly have never bought one and I know from research exactly what I am missing out on, lol...
    Unless you've actually eaten one you really don't know what you are missing. But I suppose you could say almost the same thing about drugs. But I just read an article about a month ago about a new Twinkie that's supposed to be good for you.

    Now that might be worth a try?
    Where's the link so that I can ponder this new mystery, lol...

    As for various drugs, I have actually asked some users to describe their 'trip' or experience out of curiosity as to why people do these things. From the answers I received, my curiosity was sufficiently satisfied that I did not pursue the matter further. I am a 'control freak', when it comes to self control only. I know my limits and stay within them. (LOL, I could have written THAT ad campaign.)
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post

    I don't think I have ever eaten a Twinkie as a child, certainly have never bought one and I know from research exactly what I am missing out on, lol...
    Unless you've actually eaten one you really don't know what you are missing. But I suppose you could say almost the same thing about drugs. But I just read an article about a month ago about a new Twinkie that's supposed to be good for you.

    Now that might be worth a try?
    Where's the link so that I can ponder this new mystery, lol...

    As for various drugs, I have actually asked some users to describe their 'trip' or experience out of curiosity as to why people do these things. From the answers I received, my curiosity was sufficiently satisfied that I did not pursue the matter further. I am a 'control freak', when it comes to self control only. I know my limits and stay within them. (LOL, I could have written THAT ad campaign.)
    Healthy Twinkies?

    Okay this guy doesn't have anything good to say about healthy Twinkies, but still you should try one sometime.
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Healthy Twinkies?

    Okay this guy doesn't have anything good to say about healthy Twinkies, but still you should try one sometime.
    Actually, since I have almost eliminated gluten from my diet, most things made with wheat flour hold no appeal at all. When I do the temperature checks at work of the cake and pastry case, I literally almost gag at the sight of the colored icing and baked goods. Blah! Same with all of the frozen desserts. I used to be quite fond of frozen yogurt but it also seems to have lost it's appeal.

    I like most fruits and am very fond of Medjool dates which I only recently discovered and find them a great way to satisfy any sweet cravings. I also still enjoy chocolate in moderation and on occasion, immoderately. I sucked down 200 grams of dark chocolate covered Goji berries last week in 24 hours. A premium brand of chocolate got swept into the end of season sale on summer candy and I pounced on the opportunity because those tasty little morsels never go on for half price in the 8 years I have worked this venue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    There is a man in another place that I chat talk in who is 500 pounds plus. He claims he is healthy, and that everyone else doesn't understand his need to be this weight....when he was 600 pounds he lost 150 and said it made him sick. He won't listen to anyone, and every scientist I met in there throws him to the curb in 5 minutes. sometimes thinks he just likes to argue
    Everyone wants to be the protagonist in their own story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    I am a 'control freak', when it comes to self control only.
    This is the exact same reason why I have not felt the desire to use or experiment with such drugs.
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    He says he is 100% healthy
    Add psychology problems about perception to his physical ones.

    --
    I'm not sure the junk food industry has much play in Saudi Arabia where this guy is from.

    It's not like the states where there's tons of research by junk food companies that shamelessly use advertising, bag designs, shelf placement and other techniques all explicitly designed to exploit people's natural weaknesses to eat incorrectly.
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    He says he is 100% healthy
    Add psychology problems about perception to his physical ones.

    --
    I'm not sure the junk food industry has much play in Saudi Arabia where this guy is from.

    It's not like the states where there's tons of research by junk food companies that shamelessly use advertising, bag designs, shelf placement and other techniques all explicitly designed to exploit people's natural weaknesses to eat incorrectly.
    I haven't done a search on grocery stores but there are over 200 Burger King and 230 MacDonald's in Saudi Arabia as well as chicken franchise operations.

    Burger King, which paved the way back in 1992 with a first location in Saudi Arabia, has over 200 restaurants in the region. McDonald’s, the global leader, also opened its first restaurant in Saudi Arabia, only a year later. It now has over 230 outlets throughout the Arab world, with 173 in the six Gulf states alone. It plans to open more than 10 new restaurants here annually if its steady growth continues.
    McDonald's vs Burger King | Kippreport.com

    Olayan Group :: Saudi Arabia Investing and Manufacturing :: Business in the Middle East
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    and that everyone else doesn't understand his need to be this weight....when he was 600 pounds he lost 150 and said it made him sick
    I'd think it would make him sick. Anyone who loses a lot of fat has issues with various unpleasant junk that is fat soluble or accumulated in the liver. Release the fat and its accompanying nasties into the bloodstream and you will feel a bit, or a lot, unwell for a while. I know there are some "liver tonics" and "de-tox" products that shouldn't be taken when pregnant as a precaution against this sort of thing affecting the foetus.

    Quite apart from which there's the normal issues with addiction. I'd suspect he has near-addict attachments to certain foods. The loss of those could easily give you the headachey nauseous type symptoms that go with any major adjustment to metabolism.
    I think you are right!
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    There is a man in another place that I chat talk in who is 500 pounds plus. He claims he is healthy, and that everyone else doesn't understand his need to be this weight....when he was 600 pounds he lost 150 and said it made him sick. He won't listen to anyone, and every scientist I met in there throws him to the curb in 5 minutes. sometimes thinks he just likes to argue
    Everyone wants to be the protagonist in their own story.
    I had never seen a man who's stomack is 6 inches off the floor, literally. I am pretty fit......I can't wrap my head around that type of self suicide!
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Healthy Twinkies?

    Okay this guy doesn't have anything good to say about healthy Twinkies, but still you should try one sometime.
    Actually, since I have almost eliminated gluten from my diet, most things made with wheat flour hold no appeal at all. When I do the temperature checks at work of the cake and pastry case, I literally almost gag at the sight of the colored icing and baked goods. Blah! Same with all of the frozen desserts. I used to be quite fond of frozen yogurt but it also seems to have lost it's appeal.

    I like most fruits and am very fond of Medjool dates which I only recently discovered and find them a great way to satisfy any sweet cravings. I also still enjoy chocolate in moderation and on occasion, immoderately. I sucked down 200 grams of dark chocolate covered Goji berries last week in 24 hours. A premium brand of chocolate got swept into the end of season sale on summer candy and I pounced on the opportunity because those tasty little morsels never go on for half price in the 8 years I have worked this venue.
    Daughter brings me Swiss chocolate! *L*
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    I have taken care of a woman who was too large to get on an ambulance gurney. The crew had to transport her on the carpet from her home. When in the hospital she could not breath with the bed in the flat position so the head had to be elevated. However with the head of the bed raised she would slowly slip down, so periodically we would have to pull her up in bed. It took 12 people, 6 on each side of the bed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cogito Ergo Sum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Forklift helps 1,345-pound Saudi man get to hospital for obesity treatment.

    Forklift helps 1,300-pound Saudi man get to hospital for obesity treatment - World News

    Apparently, people can get this fat.
    However, I do not understand how one can let him/herself go like that.
    I chat in a room and have for lets see since around 1998.....1999....and there is a chatter there who is over 500 pounds.

    He says he cannot lose the weight or he will get sick.

    He considers himself a SCIENTIST.

    He says he can disprove all doctors of his condition.

    OK

    let me get this right

    You weigh almost 600 pounds..you say you have no health issues, and wind up in the hosptial where you tell your doctors they don't know what they are doing.....you are bitter, angry, and mean if you aren't catered too, you live off the system and think we should be giving you more.

    OK...I don't buy this crap.

    I have to work to keep on weight....and that is a different "evil" but someone who is not genetically inclined to have weight issues....

    sorry..lose the weight buddy

    you like being fat..and he does...it is his pity party.....and I won't refer you cause you guys would have a field day
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post

    I don't think I have ever eaten a Twinkie as a child, certainly have never bought one and I know from research exactly what I am missing out on, lol...
    Unless you've actually eaten one you really don't know what you are missing. But I suppose you could say almost the same thing about drugs. But I just read an article about a month ago about a new Twinkie that's supposed to be good for you.

    Now that might be worth a try?
    Every few years I get the idea that I want to eat a Twinkie, so I buy some... and am reminded of how utterly revolting they are. Ugh! But I swear that they tasted good when I was a kid.
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  37. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    I haven't done a search on grocery stores but there are over 200 Burger King and 230 MacDonald's in Saudi Arabia as well as chicken franchise operations.

    He can't get out of the house and no Burger King that I know of delivers. (so he's probably got an "enabler" and someone supporting his illness). The US has more than 12,000 Burger Kings, 200 even for a smaller nation is hardly a lot.

    --
    I'm a bit surprised by the lack of sympathy here. People in his condition have medical problems that got them that big--either psychological or physical or a combination of the two.
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    Yes, a person really can get that fat. But if I ever weighed much more than 400 pounds I would feel so awful I would probably ask somebody to kill me, LONG before I get that heavy (unless I was really, really tall). Btw my BMI is 21.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    I haven't done a search on grocery stores but there are over 200 Burger King and 230 MacDonald's in Saudi Arabia as well as chicken franchise operations.

    He can't get out of the house and no Burger King that I know of delivers. (so he's probably got an "enabler" and someone supporting his illness). The US has more than 12,000 Burger Kings, 200 even for a smaller nation is hardly a lot.

    --
    I'm a bit surprised by the lack of sympathy here. People in his condition have medical problems that got them that big--either psychological or physical or a combination of the two.
    I don't know if you are speaking to me personally, Lynx Fox, or the posters to this thread in general.

    Without more details regarding the particulars of this case, I do not feel any particular emotion for this individual except curiosity. To this point I have merely pointed out that the food supply may well be one contributing factor. No matter that this individual has been unable to get out of bed, the fact remains that others are feeding him, but we have no idea of what type or amounts of food they are feeding him. When I read some of the statistics at another link to the OP, the suggestion is that lifestyle choices are contributing to the huge increase in obesity in this region.
    According to a recent United Nations study, Kuwait led the way in highest proportion of obese adults in the GCC, with 42.8 percent falling into this bracket in 2008, followed by Saudi Arabia at 35.2 percent.
    Another report by Frost & Sullivan claimed that GCC healthcare expenditure will triple to $133.19bn by 2018, partly on the back of rising incidences of lifestyle diseases, which appallingly have an incidence rate in the region of about 20 percent.

    Saudi's king orders medical help for 610kg man - Healthcare - ArabianBusiness.com
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  40. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    I haven't done a search on grocery stores but there are over 200 Burger King and 230 MacDonald's in Saudi Arabia as well as chicken franchise operations.

    He can't get out of the house and no Burger King that I know of delivers. (so he's probably got an "enabler" and someone supporting his illness). The US has more than 12,000 Burger Kings, 200 even for a smaller nation is hardly a lot.

    --
    I'm a bit surprised by the lack of sympathy here. People in his condition have medical problems that got them that big--either psychological or physical or a combination of the two.
    He needs one of those stomach rings surgically installed. I knew someone that did that and it worked like a champ. Basically it limits the amount of food the stomach can hold.
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    He needs one of those stomach rings surgically installed. I knew someone that did that and it worked like a champ. Basically it limits the amount of food the stomach can hold.
    Someone this big is waaaaay beyond that solution. (And you have to deal with the food issues before you do such things. I remember a friend 30+ years ago had one of those rings installed. She also loved baking bread. Kept on doing it, and she'd cut a couple of large slices, slather them with lashings of real butter - then put them through the blender with some milk so she could have a bread and butter "drink".)

    I'd think he needs several months of hospitalisation and extremely careful monitoring. His endocrine, mineral, vitamin and every other conceivable kind of balance would need 24/7 management. I'd say his medical care would be an absolute nightmare. I very much doubt he can fit into any kind of scanning machine and his vast quantities of fat would probably make reading film from portable Xrays and ultrasounds pretty complex undertakings. I'd hate to be the anaesthetist if anyone suggested he needed surgery.
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    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah has intervened to help a man whose weight has ballooned to an incredible 610 kg (96 stone), making him one of the world's heaviest people.

    The king has ordered the transfer of patient Khalid bin Mohsen Shaari from the region of Jazan to Riyadh for treatment at King Fahd Medical City, Saudi Press Agency reported on Sunday.
    I would be exceedingly interested in knowing this person's whole history. Apparently he is only 20 years old and the king asked for him to be transferred to a hospital six months ago but a bed had to be built first. The bed was built in the United States according to various news sources and forums that I have been bouncing between.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    He says he is 100% healthy
    And he's in deep denial.
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  44. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    I haven't done a search on grocery stores but there are over 200 Burger King and 230 MacDonald's in Saudi Arabia as well as chicken franchise operations.

    He can't get out of the house and no Burger King that I know of delivers. (so he's probably got an "enabler" and someone supporting his illness). The US has more than 12,000 Burger Kings, 200 even for a smaller nation is hardly a lot.

    --
    I'm a bit surprised by the lack of sympathy here. People in his condition have medical problems that got them that big--either psychological or physical or a combination of the two.
    But if they are in DENIAL?
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticorncob28 View Post
    Yes, a person really can get that fat. But if I ever weighed much more than 400 pounds I would feel so awful I would probably ask somebody to kill me, LONG before I get that heavy (unless I was really, really tall). Btw my BMI is 21.
    Don't know what mine is...just that I eat healthy as can be, but I do NOT like eating lots of food at one time.....

    *glare*

    just kidding...that you are aware of being healthy is in itself healthy....we are, after all our own body's "watchdog" .....and if we don't stay "on duty"...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    He says he is 100% healthy
    And he's in deep denial.
    Sorry!! I just saw this.

    and he is and will not admit it...and gets very very angry and verbally abusive....I no longer will discuss this with him....

    sometimes ignoring people isn't a bad thing!
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