Notices
Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345
Results 401 to 488 of 488
Like Tree123Likes

Thread: 'Autism' Is Discrimination

  1. #401  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    I'll put it differently; child who's great at math refuses to do math because it's too easy but has the ability to do so if he wants. This isn't a math disability.
    But is is frigging stupid.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #402  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    I'll put it differently; child who's great at math refuses to do math because it's too easy but has the ability to do so if he wants. This isn't a math disability.
    But is is frigging stupid.
    But is society frigging stupid.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #403  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    MoonCanvas thinks that being abnormal is somehow degrading and bad.
    I said the opposite. And we do not differ on this topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    If our abnormal perceptions cause impairment in our abilities to function within society hindering a person from reaching goals those without such abnormalities can usually achieve then it is referred to a disorder. This is what MC is not seeming to grasp.
    This isn't a concept I don't grasp. The ability to function normally in society is not something I use even though I do have it. If efficiency is all that matters, which it does, then I can be as abnormal as I wish(as long as I'm efficient) and it's not a disorder(medically). My personal choice is not a disorder.
    If your behavior is strictly choice then, no it is not a disorder or a true abnormality. I should have specified that the abnormality is natural and permanent rather than choosing to be different. If you choose to talk weird that is your choice and it is not an abnormality. But if you are being judged on behaviors that you CHOOSE to display, knowing (at least now) that these very behaviors you are choosing to display are causing people to perceive you as mentally disabled, then the blame is on you.

    For instance, I often talk about eating long pork on this forum. And sometimes in public when talking to my kids. If people read those posts or over hear me talking about eating human flesh start thinking I am a cannibal, then I only have myself to blame for that. If you do not want people to think you have a mental disorder, then stop acting like you have one. Otherwise, stop complaining and just lay in the bed you have made for yourself. If autism does not exist in you, that is one thing. But do not continue to assume or insist that autism does not exist at all simply because you have so aptly faked a case of it for yourself.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #404  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,440
    Which two people on this planet are the same?

    Why does it matter if we are different or PROCESS differently, as LONG as we process.

    WHY are we babysitting people who have issues that they need to fucking figure out and deal with ...and if someone can offer a great suggestion along the way...isn't that like fabulous?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #405  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    If autism does not exist in you, that is one thing. But do not continue to assume or insist that autism does not exist at all simply because you have so aptly faked a case of it for yourself.
    Previously you said I'm not autistic and just an asshole, and now you say I'm faking the symptoms. This sounds like comments from the people you hate. Just saying. Disclaimer: I was not offended.

    My personal choices partially put me on the autism spectrum, and I certainly am not faking them. You said it yourself, autism symptoms means autism, professionals do not care about the circumstances or distinguishing social inability from social choice. If they did then the criteria would be way different.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #406  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,440
    Jesus, I hate whining!

    Man up! for pete's sake....

    you have a problem....look at it...address it and DEAL with it.

    You need support in doing that, PLEASE seek it, be it here but preferably in a place that can do it right.

    NO ONE you will ever meet in life doesn't have a little disfunctionability....Deal with it. It is life. STOP WALLOWING In past dissappointments! Make postitive steps!

    OK off my soap box...sometimes some of you make me walk out on my deck and scream...*literally*
    John Galt likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #407  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    If autism does not exist in you, that is one thing. But do not continue to assume or insist that autism does not exist at all simply because you have so aptly faked a case of it for yourself.
    Previously you said I'm not autistic and just an asshole, and now you say I'm faking the symptoms. This sounds like comments from the people you hate. Just saying. Disclaimer: I was not offended.

    My personal choices partially put me on the autism spectrum, and I certainly am not faking them. You said it yourself, autism symptoms means autism, professionals do not care about the circumstances or distinguishing social inability from social choice. If they did then the criteria would be way different.
    You said your behavior is chosen. With autism, the behavior isn't chosen. It is natural and not something the autistic person intentionally does. YOU are the one who says your behavior is a choice. I also have never said that I hate anyone. I don't understand why you keep insisting that I hate NT people or anyone else. You are also the one who says you are choosing to behave in a way that you prefer to be referred to as an asshole. I cannot diagnose you. You are making statements. I am simply repeating them. Then you make remarks as if I made stuff up. You say you are not autistic. You say you want to be called an asshole. If you do not perceive yourself to be an asshole, then why would you prefer to be called one? You can just say whatever you like, but do keep track of what you are just saying when trying to make it look as if I am making things up. You are making claims about yourself. If I accept your claims that you are an asshole, that you choose to behave in a manner that is consistent with the appearance of autism, knowing full well that it causes people to think you are autistic, then one can only reasonably conclude that you are an asshole who knowingly pretends to have/fakes autism then gets upset when he is diagnosed with autism. You are creating this image yourself. Faking symptoms is not the same as having symptoms. Otherwise every actor that portrays a person with a mental illness and portrays them accurately would also have to be diagnosed to have the same mental illness as the person they are portraying. Professionals DO care about the circumstances of the symptoms in general, however even professions are human and have their own biases. Some doctors are better at their jobs than others, for instance, a child raised by wolves would have social deficiencies as well, but no doctor would likely diagnose them with autism since the normal upbringing was not present. And the social structure of wolves is only vaguely known. However, you have not been all too clear about who exactly it was that diagnosed you. Was it your psychiatrist or a school counselor? School counselors are not usually qualified to make diagnosis. They are only able to observe and take notes to be passed on to a diagnostic clinical psychiatrist, unless I am mistaken.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #408  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Was it your psychiatrist or a school counselor?
    It was a non-school doctor, twice.

    If I'm not mistaken, everyone was saying autism traits means autism, and the duck avatar guy said it doesn't matter whether it's social choice or social unwillingness. The criteria clearly makes no effort to distinguish the two.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #409  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Was it your psychiatrist or a school counselor?
    It was a non-school doctor, twice.

    If I'm not mistaken, everyone was saying autism traits means autism, and the duck avatar guy said it doesn't matter whether it's social choice or social unwillingness. The criteria clearly makes no effort to distinguish the two.
    I'm not aware that any of us are psychiatrists either. But if two psychiatrists diagnosed you autistic then I'd trust the diagnosis. Of course if you did not explain to them that you are faking and demonstrate to them that you can act normal then it is your own fault that you got diagnosed autistic. Doctors do not regularly see people faking mental illness. Most people do not want that sort of diagnosis. So they presume you are innocent of such deception. So you may want to stop acting like you have a mental disorder and go to a new doctor that does not know your history and explain to him that you are an asshole that just likes to pretend to be mentally ill but that you have learned the error of your ways and you want to be reevaluated while you are behaving normally rather than acting like you have a mental disorder. And be sure to not act like you have a mental disorder at any time while you are interacting with this doctor. Then if he gives you a clean bill of mental health, repeat the process with another doctor just to be sure.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #410  
    Forum Sophomore Nisslbody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    102
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    ]You try to appear as a gallant defender of the autistic
    To be honest, I haven't seen any attempt to defend the autistic. It seems more like an attempt to distance himself from those with serious mental disabilities. What I'm getting is that people with severe autism are "retards", while he's just a high functioning autistic who is basically a "nerd".

    I don't know what the goal is here, but I think you need to reconsider your approach if what you're trying to achieve is some kind of fairness to the persons being diagnose with autism. It's coming off as just angry and offensive.
    I'm having a pretty negative emotional reaction to that as well, having not only an ex-husband, a daughter, and a brother who are all autistic, but also a good friend who is proudly autistic and devoting her life to autism awareness. An awful lot of autistic people neither think their diagnosis is "bullshit" nor do they wish to have what and who they are denied just because people feel there's a stigma attached to the word.

    And they aren't "retards". FFS.
    Last edited by Nisslbody; August 19th, 2013 at 04:40 PM. Reason: typo
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #411  
    Forum Sophomore Nisslbody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    102
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    I take it you think all autistics who think autism doesn't exist are not really autistic... Maybe that's not what you're thinking but it sure looks like it.

    OK, I apologize for posting before reading the whole thread. This is gold. Pure gold.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #412  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,046
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    I'll put it differently; child who's great at math refuses to do math because it's too easy but has the ability to do so if he wants. This isn't a math disability.

    Could you blame that child's teachers for not believing them? Honestly?

    Suppose there are two children. Child #1 and Child #2

    Child #1 is very bad at math, but doesn't want to admit it, so they just say "math is too easy, and I find it boring."

    Child #2 is so good at math they really do find it tediously boring. They also say "math is too easy, and I find it boring."


    If you were the teacher, how would you determine which child is which? Perhaps use psychic powers?


    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    I'm guessing that you probably don't exhibit any of those traits, and that should have clued your counselor in to the fact you didn't have it. While a person with Asperger's syndrome might not always have every trait on the list, it should be quite uncommon for them them not to at least have one of the odd traits.


    Again: I don't think you've ever met a "properly" diagnosed person. Just "school counselor" diagnosed people. The schools have very restrictive budgets these days and they can't always afford to hire counselors who are fully with it.
    Everyone immediately suspects I have autism the moment I speak. It's nothing like those dorks on YouTube who were diagnosed with Asperger's(who seem to be hypochondriacs or want sympathy for being bullied). My voice is heard and everyone disregards whatever I say, whether I'm right or wrong about a topic. If the posters here think spreading awareness about autism is beneficial to me, they are sadly mistaken. Because now instead of being seen as a nonconformist with speech abnormality, I'm seen as being developmentally disabled.

    There is a gap of people's understanding of unique individuals and "autism" fills the gap.
    The "developmentally disabled" part is gradually changing. The people who actually know anything about the condition, realize that it doesn't prevent a person from being intelligent. That's why I like that "Sherlock Holmes" series on BBC where they portray Sherlock as openly having asperger's. Yet, in spite of having Asperger's he shows himself to be the highly competent detective we might expect from the books.

    Just have to accept that people are ignorant. There was once a time when, if people saw that that a person had black skin, they'd immediately assume they were a criminal. That is understood by most people today to be the result of ignorance and prejudice. People with Asperger's syndrome have to deal with a similar problem today, with people thinking we're more mentally impaired than we are, but it will pass. Society will gradually become better aware.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #413  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    Of course if you did not explain to them that you are faking and demonstrate to them that you can act normal then it is your own fault that you got diagnosed autistic.
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    So you may want to stop acting like you have a mental disorder and go to a new doctor that does not know your history and explain to him that you are an asshole that just likes to pretend to be mentally ill but that you have learned the error of your ways and you want to be reevaluated while you are behaving normally rather than acting like you have a mental disorder.
    I'm actually a bit disappointed you said this.

    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    Could you blame that child's teachers for not believing them? Honestly?

    Suppose there are two children. Child #1 and Child #2

    Child #1 is very bad at math, but doesn't want to admit it, so they just say "math is too easy, and I find it boring."

    Child #2 is so good at math they really do find it tediously boring. They also say "math is too easy, and I find it boring."


    If you were the teacher, how would you determine which child is which? Perhaps use psychic powers?
    This is one of the points I'm trying to make; even if autism were real, nobody would know what it looks like.

    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    The "developmentally disabled" part is gradually changing. The people who actually know anything about the condition, realize that it doesn't prevent a person from being intelligent. That's why I like that "Sherlock Holmes" series on BBC where they portray Sherlock as openly having asperger's. Yet, in spite of having Asperger's he shows himself to be the highly competent detective we might expect from the books.

    Just have to accept that people are ignorant. There was once a time when, if people saw that that a person had black skin, they'd immediately assume they were a criminal. That is understood by most people today to be the result of ignorance and prejudice. People with Asperger's syndrome have to deal with a similar problem today, with people thinking we're more mentally impaired than we are, but it will pass. Society will gradually become better aware.
    People think we're mentally impaired because the autism-label exists, and they rightfully should. If our brains are supposedly wired differently then by most standards that would make us inferior. We're already automatically weird but now people have an excuse to treat us poorly.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #414  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    I know I'll get blasted for saying this... I think the problem is that autism is a fad diagnosis. The symptoms are so broad, most teenagers can be diagnosed. In fact, 3% of South Korea was diagnosed with autism. I'm also disgusted by the practice of diagnosing infants with autism; children are not fully developed, they could very well become sociable or socially-able as adults and still be walking around with the label. There's actually a psychiatric responsible for DSM-4 that lobbied for Asperger's to be in it, but now says how bad of an idea it was. If I recall, this guy got blasted for the comments he made in this link.
    The Autism Generation by Allen Frances - Project Syndicate
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #415  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,046
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    Of course if you did not explain to them that you are faking and demonstrate to them that you can act normal then it is your own fault that you got diagnosed autistic.
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    So you may want to stop acting like you have a mental disorder and go to a new doctor that does not know your history and explain to him that you are an asshole that just likes to pretend to be mentally ill but that you have learned the error of your ways and you want to be reevaluated while you are behaving normally rather than acting like you have a mental disorder.
    I'm actually a bit disappointed you said this.

    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    Could you blame that child's teachers for not believing them? Honestly?

    Suppose there are two children. Child #1 and Child #2

    Child #1 is very bad at math, but doesn't want to admit it, so they just say "math is too easy, and I find it boring."

    Child #2 is so good at math they really do find it tediously boring. They also say "math is too easy, and I find it boring."


    If you were the teacher, how would you determine which child is which? Perhaps use psychic powers?
    This is one of the points I'm trying to make; even if autism were real, nobody would know what it looks like.
    Not knowing what it looks like has been a problem for a lot of other medical problems too. Even HIV was hard to properly diagnose for a while after its discovery, until a reliable test was devised.




    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    The "developmentally disabled" part is gradually changing. The people who actually know anything about the condition, realize that it doesn't prevent a person from being intelligent. That's why I like that "Sherlock Holmes" series on BBC where they portray Sherlock as openly having asperger's. Yet, in spite of having Asperger's he shows himself to be the highly competent detective we might expect from the books.

    Just have to accept that people are ignorant. There was once a time when, if people saw that that a person had black skin, they'd immediately assume they were a criminal. That is understood by most people today to be the result of ignorance and prejudice. People with Asperger's syndrome have to deal with a similar problem today, with people thinking we're more mentally impaired than we are, but it will pass. Society will gradually become better aware.
    People think we're mentally impaired because the autism-label exists, and they rightfully should. If our brains are supposedly wired differently then by most standards that would make us inferior. We're already automatically weird but now people have an excuse to treat us poorly.
    I've always hated that it was called "Aspergers". Of all the words to associate with a person who's already socially awkward....

    It's true that brain disorders carry a bigger stigma than physical disorders like blindness or epilepsy.

    As I said, that's starting to change, though. There are quite a lot of people with the disorder working their way into highly educated fields like engineering, which makes it begin to be impossible to perpetuate the most troublesome stereotypes.


    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    I know I'll get blasted for saying this... I think the problem is that autism is a fad diagnosis. The symptoms are so broad, most teenagers can be diagnosed. In fact, 3% of South Korea was diagnosed with autism. I'm also disgusted by the practice of diagnosing infants with autism; children are not fully developed, they could very well become sociable or socially-able as adults and still be walking around with the label. There's actually a psychiatric responsible for DSM-4 that lobbied for Asperger's to be in it, but now says how bad of an idea it was. If I recall, this guy got blasted for the comments he made in this link.
    The Autism Generation by Allen Frances - Project Syndicate

    It may well be a fad diagnoses. That's unfortunate for those who get lost in the crowd of false positives.

    Cancer used to be known as "consumption" in the 1800's, and was used as kind of a blanket diagnosis for a wide array of deadly illnesses.

    I definitely agree that it's unfortunate that autism sometimes get diagnosed on people who are merely socially dysfunctional, like from bad homes or something, but don't have a medical cause behind it. If nothing else, it gives people who really have autism a bad name. Then we end up getting compared with angry inner city youth who are just acting out. People may start thinking we're all trouble makers.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #416  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post

    It may well be a fad diagnoses. That's unfortunate for those who get lost in the crowd of false positives.

    Cancer used to be known as "consumption" in the 1800's, and was used as kind of a blanket diagnosis for a wide array of deadly illnesses.

    I definitely agree that it's unfortunate that autism sometimes get diagnosed on people who are merely socially dysfunctional, like from bad homes or something, but don't have a medical cause behind it. If nothing else, it gives people who really have autism a bad name. Then we end up getting compared with angry inner city youth who are just acting out. People may start thinking we're all trouble makers.
    With this I do agree. It would be nice if they did more to distinguish between assholery, douchebaggism and autism.But I don't thing it is the DSM that is failing to make that distinction. I think it is the ill informed doctors and school officials who fancy themselves to be qualified psychiatrists who are dropping the ball. As far as the average person on the street having a negative impression of what autism is that is simply a case of awareness needing to be spread. When I was first told my son my have autism, the only time I had ever heard the term was from the movie "Rain Main", and the diagnosis my ex-husband got when he was declared mentally disabled by social security. They diagnosed him with autism AND mental retardation. Had I been there to give them more insight they would likely have added schizophrenia and psychopathy. Just days before he tried to kill me an ER doc told me he was exhibiting textbook signs of paranoid schizophrenia and suggested that I sign to have him admitted for evaluation. I wish I had.

    Of course awareness campaigns are little effective on the ears and eyes of people who don't care and are delighted to have another means to elevate themselves over others. HIV/AIDS awareness has been going on for decades and still people with that have a horrifying stigma.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #417  
    Forum Sophomore Nisslbody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    102
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post

    It may well be a fad diagnoses. That's unfortunate for those who get lost in the crowd of false positives.

    Cancer used to be known as "consumption" in the 1800's, and was used as kind of a blanket diagnosis for a wide array of deadly illnesses.

    I definitely agree that it's unfortunate that autism sometimes get diagnosed on people who are merely socially dysfunctional, like from bad homes or something, but don't have a medical cause behind it. If nothing else, it gives people who really have autism a bad name. Then we end up getting compared with angry inner city youth who are just acting out. People may start thinking we're all trouble makers.
    With this I do agree. It would be nice if they did more to distinguish between assholery, douchebaggism and autism.But I don't thing it is the DSM that is failing to make that distinction. I think it is the ill informed doctors and school officials who fancy themselves to be qualified psychiatrists who are dropping the ball. As far as the average person on the street having a negative impression of what autism is that is simply a case of awareness needing to be spread. When I was first told my son my have autism, the only time I had ever heard the term was from the movie "Rain Main", and the diagnosis my ex-husband got when he was declared mentally disabled by social security. They diagnosed him with autism AND mental retardation. Had I been there to give them more insight they would likely have added schizophrenia and psychopathy. Just days before he tried to kill me an ER doc told me he was exhibiting textbook signs of paranoid schizophrenia and suggested that I sign to have him admitted for evaluation. I wish I had.

    Of course awareness campaigns are little effective on the ears and eyes of people who don't care and are delighted to have another means to elevate themselves over others. HIV/AIDS awareness has been going on for decades and still people with that have a horrifying stigma.
    I could not agree more with this post, especially the second sentence!

    On a side note, to Kojax, consumption was actually tuberculosis, not cancer.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #418  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    It's been some time but I felt I had to show this video I found. Previously I spoke with a YouTuber claiming to have a Down Syndrome kid with 'autism' and I didn't believe him, that someone with DS would be diagnosed like that. But I recently saw a video where, apparently, they decided that a Down Syndrome child is autistic... I heavily disagree with them, and also think the diagnosis screams fishy.


    To me, it's clear mental retardation overlaps with severe autism.


    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    As far as the average person on the street having a negative impression of what autism is that is simply a case of awareness needing to be spread.
    I didn't wanna ignore your post, so I'm responding to it. I think a negative impression of 'autism' is formed the moment awareness of it is spread. This is what happened in my situation; instead of a weirdo with odd speech, I was instead seen as developmentally disabled. Part of my effort is to cease autism awareness(or from my perception, the circulation of false information) and remove it from the DSM.

    Mentally challenged individuals tend to not contribute to society, whereas I can. I should not have to deal with their stigma.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #419  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    This thread is now so long that I am unwilling to read back through it to obtain clarification of a point. Moon Canvas, is there anything currently preventing you from making your contribution to society? If so what is it? The diagnosis is in the past. How ccan it impact what you choose to do with your future?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #420  
    Malignant Pimple shlunka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dogbox in front of Dywyddyr's house.
    Posts
    1,784
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    It's been some time but I felt I had to show this video I found. Previously I spoke with a YouTuber claiming to have a Down Syndrome kid with 'autism' and I didn't believe him, that someone with DS would be diagnosed like that. But I recently saw a video where, apparently, they decided that a Down Syndrome child is autistic... I heavily disagree with them, and also think the diagnosis screams fishy.


    To me, it's clear mental retardation overlaps with severe autism.


    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    As far as the average person on the street having a negative impression of what autism is that is simply a case of awareness needing to be spread.
    I didn't wanna ignore your post, so I'm responding to it. I think a negative impression of 'autism' is formed the moment awareness of it is spread. This is what happened in my situation; instead of a weirdo with odd speech, I was instead seen as developmentally disabled. Part of my effort is to cease autism awareness(or from my perception, the circulation of false information) and remove it from the DSM.

    Mentally challenged individuals tend to not contribute to society, whereas I can. I should not have to deal with their stigma.
    Generalization, many mentally challenged individuals serve purposes for society via menial jobs or personal companionship. Awareness is not the same as the circulation of false information. Awareness is understanding, not in a travestic sense. What defines "contributing to society"? Education, invention, or simply interacting with fellow human beings to make their lives marginally more enjoyable? Two of my good friends are mentally challenged, but offer considerably more enjoyment during casual conversations than the general populace, and at times point out things I was oblivious to.
    seagypsy likes this.
    "MODERATOR NOTE : We don't entertain trolls here, not even in the trash can. Banned." -Markus Hanke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #421  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,046
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    As far as the average person on the street having a negative impression of what autism is that is simply a case of awareness needing to be spread.
    I didn't wanna ignore your post, so I'm responding to it. I think a negative impression of 'autism' is formed the moment awareness of it is spread. This is what happened in my situation; instead of a weirdo with odd speech, I was instead seen as developmentally disabled. Part of my effort is to cease autism awareness(or from my perception, the circulation of false information) and remove it from the DSM.

    Mentally challenged individuals tend to not contribute to society, whereas I can. I should not have to deal with their stigma.
    As a general rule it's true that if something is going to be achieved poorly, then it is sometimes better it not be attempted at all. People who only know a little about autism think it's a reason to discount you. People who know a lot about autism know you have a higher than average likelihood of being really good with numbers.

    So, poor people will discount you. Rich people will seek you out. (Since most rich people value those who are good with numbers, at least if they've been rich for very long.)
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #422  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    This thread is now so long that I am unwilling to read back through it to obtain clarification of a point. Moon Canvas, is there anything currently preventing you from making your contribution to society? If so what is it? The diagnosis is in the past. How ccan it impact what you choose to do with your future?
    I'm currently trying to "make my contribution" to society via college, but to say I have not been hampered to a degree would be a lie on my part. My voice as I prior stated is awkward, so usually when I speak I see people treating me slow, which I'm fairly certain is because they think I'm autistic; from my experiences in k-12 schools, being diagnosed or thought to have autism multiple times, my time in special education, and many more reasons I could go on about for a while.

    Most of the time it negatively impacts me, like being ignored, avoided, or basically not receiving the opportunities others do. Sometimes there's a "positive" effect where my professors give me passing grades even when I turn in terrible work. Either way it seems like inequality. I would strongly disagree if someone told me it's because "people aren't aware enough about autism", I think these problems occur because ​the term exists. And according to autism protocol, I'm being treated properly.


    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka
    Generalization, many mentally challenged individuals serve purposes for society via menial jobs or personal companionship. Awareness is not the same as the circulation of false information. Awareness is understanding, not in a travestic sense. What defines "contributing to society"? Education, invention, or simply interacting with fellow human beings to make their lives marginally more enjoyable? Two of my good friends are mentally challenged, but offer considerably more enjoyment during casual conversations than the general populace, and at times point out things I was oblivious to.
    I will say this; what you're arguing over(in your post) is not that relevant to my argument. Though I can see if you're saying this simply for good intentions.

    These kids cannot help solve the issues of this world; can't end world hunger, can't achieve world peace, can't terraform other planets. With very low intelligence comes serious limitations. Simply put, I don't think they contribute much to anything. It's nasty to say, but the cold hard truth. Yes, they can still interact and are fairly good-willed.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #423  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,046
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    This thread is now so long that I am unwilling to read back through it to obtain clarification of a point. Moon Canvas, is there anything currently preventing you from making your contribution to society? If so what is it? The diagnosis is in the past. How ccan it impact what you choose to do with your future?
    I'm currently trying to "make my contribution" to society via college, but to say I have not been hampered to a degree would be a lie on my part. My voice as I prior stated is awkward, so usually when I speak I see people treating me slow, which I'm fairly certain is because they think I'm autistic; from my experiences in k-12 schools, being diagnosed or thought to have autism multiple times, my time in special education, and many more reasons I could go on about for a while.
    If they're going off of your speech, and your speech is odd, then they might just as easily think you actually have downs' Syndrome. That would be true even if autism didn't exist, and even if they had never heard of autism.

    They're going to be asking themselves : why doesn't this kid fix how he talks? Most likely they're going to assume it's because he can't.

    If they're diagnosing autism when they might have otherwise diagnosed Downs Syndrome.... then you should be happy about that. Autism is a much less debilitating diagnosis.


    Most of the time it negatively impacts me, like being ignored, avoided, or basically not receiving the opportunities others do. Sometimes there's a "positive" effect where my professors give me passing grades even when I turn in terrible work. Either way it seems like inequality. I would strongly disagree if someone told me it's because "people aren't aware enough about autism", I think these problems occur because ​the term exists. And according to autism protocol, I'm being treated properly.
    Would you rather they gave you the Downs Syndrome protocol?




    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka
    Generalization, many mentally challenged individuals serve purposes for society via menial jobs or personal companionship. Awareness is not the same as the circulation of false information. Awareness is understanding, not in a travestic sense. What defines "contributing to society"? Education, invention, or simply interacting with fellow human beings to make their lives marginally more enjoyable? Two of my good friends are mentally challenged, but offer considerably more enjoyment during casual conversations than the general populace, and at times point out things I was oblivious to.
    I will say this; what you're arguing over(in your post) is not that relevant to my argument. Though I can see if you're saying this simply for good intentions.

    These kids cannot help solve the issues of this world; can't end world hunger, can't achieve world peace, can't terraform other planets. With very low intelligence comes serious limitations. Simply put, I don't think they contribute much to anything. It's nasty to say, but the cold hard truth. Yes, they can still interact and are fairly good-willed.
    Autistic kids? Quite a many autistic people go on to become above average engineers. They most certainly can help solve world hunger.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #424  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    Mooncanvas, look, humans are pack animals. We organize in packs according to similar interests and personality traits. Did you ever consider that some people reject you simply because they see you as weird, too weird to be around. A person doesn't have to know about any mental illnesses at all to recognize that someone is different from themselves and therefore weird from their perspective. The kids in my highschool didn't know about autism. I had never heard of it until about 2007. Ok well briefly from watching "Rainman" but the character in that movie was such an extreme cause and I have never met anyone who acted like him. And I have known many autistic people without even realizing it. And I actually enjoy studying psychology and did in highschool as well. But I looked up mental illnesses associated with mass murderers. So autism never crossed my radar.

    All that being said, I was a social out cast in school not because anyone suspected me of being autistic or retarded. I was on the honor roll. But people thought I was creepy and weird because I didn't enjoy gossiping or mindless pointless chatter. I rarely showed emotion and stared at people alot because I was studying them. I didn't talk funny but i acted differently. People will reject you if you do not act like them. That is how it is in humanity.

    Go to any highschool that does not assign seating at lunch time and you will see all the jocks at one table, all the nerds at another, all the D&D geeks at another table, the goths at one, and the preppy cheerleaders at another. You will rarely see a table full of multiple personality and culture types all sitting happily amongst each other singing kumbaya, my lord, or the barney theme song. It will most always be more like Sesame street "One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong." I love sesame street, best reality show ever.

    If you want "normal" people to like you and you can control the way you talk as you claim you can, then stop talking like a weirdo and start talking like the people you want to attract.
    Ascended likes this.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  25. #425  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Mooncanvas, look, humans are pack animals. We organize in packs according to similar interests and personality traits. Did you ever consider that some people reject you simply because they see you as weird, too weird to be around. A person doesn't have to know about any mental illnesses at all to recognize that someone is different from themselves and therefore weird from their perspective. The kids in my highschool didn't know about autism. I had never heard of it until about 2007. Ok well briefly from watching "Rainman" but the character in that movie was such an extreme cause and I have never met anyone who acted like him. And I have known many autistic people without even realizing it. And I actually enjoy studying psychology and did in highschool as well. But I looked up mental illnesses associated with mass murderers. So autism never crossed my radar.

    All that being said, I was a social out cast in school not because anyone suspected me of being autistic or retarded. I was on the honor roll. But people thought I was creepy and weird because I didn't enjoy gossiping or mindless pointless chatter. I rarely showed emotion and stared at people alot because I was studying them. I didn't talk funny but i acted differently. People will reject you if you do not act like them. That is how it is in humanity.

    Go to any highschool that does not assign seating at lunch time and you will see all the jocks at one table, all the nerds at another, all the D&D geeks at another table, the goths at one, and the preppy cheerleaders at another. You will rarely see a table full of multiple personality and culture types all sitting happily amongst each other singing kumbaya, my lord, or the barney theme song. It will most always be more like Sesame street "One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong." I love sesame street, best reality show ever.

    If you want "normal" people to like you and you can control the way you talk as you claim you can, then stop talking like a weirdo and start talking like the people you want to attract.
    You covered pack mentality but I already knew of it, so I'll avoid commenting further about it.

    I should probably just explain it to you; earlier you asked why I'm "acting autistic", which I believe was the most incoherent post in this thread(I felt like saying it earlier but didn't wanna be rude). Example: I enjoy peaceful solitude, and solitary behavior is considered an 'autism' trait. I don't see how this is pretending to be 'autistic'. Though my speech is a different case, as I can't really help my voice; but awkward speech is a physical expression, not a mental one.

    Rainman's autopsy revealed he had fragile X syndrome, which was the cause of all his odd traits and behavior. Diagnosing him with autism is irrelevant. On that note, I'd like to point out how having mental retardation should excuse people from being diagnosed with autism. While mental retardation is not a natural state of mind, social disability in mentally retarded people is a natural state of(their) mind. And with severe autism nonexistent, I don't see how mild autism can be a concept.


    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    Autistic kids? Quite a many autistic people go on to become above average engineers. They most certainly can help solve world hunger.
    I was referring to mentally challenged individuals, not 'autistics'.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  26. #426  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncanvas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Mooncanvas, look, humans are pack animals. We organize in packs according to similar interests and personality traits. Did you ever consider that some people reject you simply because they see you as weird, too weird to be around. A person doesn't have to know about any mental illnesses at all to recognize that someone is different from themselves and therefore weird from their perspective. The kids in my highschool didn't know about autism. I had never heard of it until about 2007. Ok well briefly from watching "Rainman" but the character in that movie was such an extreme cause and I have never met anyone who acted like him. And I have known many autistic people without even realizing it. And I actually enjoy studying psychology and did in highschool as well. But I looked up mental illnesses associated with mass murderers. So autism never crossed my radar.

    All that being said, I was a social out cast in school not because anyone suspected me of being autistic or retarded. I was on the honor roll. But people thought I was creepy and weird because I didn't enjoy gossiping or mindless pointless chatter. I rarely showed emotion and stared at people alot because I was studying them. I didn't talk funny but i acted differently. People will reject you if you do not act like them. That is how it is in humanity.

    Go to any highschool that does not assign seating at lunch time and you will see all the jocks at one table, all the nerds at another, all the D&D geeks at another table, the goths at one, and the preppy cheerleaders at another. You will rarely see a table full of multiple personality and culture types all sitting happily amongst each other singing kumbaya, my lord, or the barney theme song. It will most always be more like Sesame street "One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong." I love sesame street, best reality show ever.

    If you want "normal" people to like you and you can control the way you talk as you claim you can, then stop talking like a weirdo and start talking like the people you want to attract.
    You covered pack mentality but I already knew of it, so I'll avoid commenting further about it.

    I should probably just explain it to you; earlier you asked why I'm "acting autistic", which I believe was the most incoherent post in this thread(I felt like saying it earlier but didn't wanna be rude). Example: I enjoy peaceful solitude, and solitary behavior is considered an 'autism' trait.
    Not by itself and that is not what I was referring to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncanvas View Post
    I don't see how this is pretending to be 'autistic'. Though my speech is a different case, as I can't really help my voice;
    Well there is a backpeddle if I ever saw one. Earlier you stated that you COULD control your speach and that you spoke that way on purpose.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncanvas View Post
    but awkward speech is a physical expression, not a mental one.
    And what part of your body do you think controls your physical movement and behavior? Oh that's right, your brain.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncanvas View Post
    Rainman's autopsy revealed he had fragile X syndrome, which was the cause of all his odd traits and behavior. Diagnosing him with autism is irrelevant. On that note, I'd like to point out how having mental retardation should excuse people from being diagnosed with autism. While mental retardation is not a natural state of mind, social disability in mentally retarded people is a natural state of(their) mind. And with severe autism nonexistent, I don't see how mild autism can be a concept.
    Nothing you just said makes any sense at all. Havingn one mental illness does not prevent the existance of a different one. I know a kid who has autism, retardation, schizophrenia, antisocial personality disorder, sociopathy/psychopathy, bipolar disorder, and oppositional defiance disorder. Thankfully they don't all manifest at once but we are always dealing with at least 3 of them. The point I was making in bringing up Rainman is that about the only public "knowledge" or impression of autism was based on the portrayal of Rainman. So since I didn't act like rainman, it would be unlikely that any of my classmates thought I was autistic back when I was in school. They only thought I was weird. And weird is not a mental illness.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mooncanvas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    Autistic kids? Quite a many autistic people go on to become above average engineers. They most certainly can help solve world hunger.
    I was referring to mentally challenged individuals, not 'autistics'.
    make up your mind.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  27. #427  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    Well there is a backpeddle if I ever saw one. Earlier you stated that you COULD control your speach and that you spoke that way on purpose.
    Provide evidence or you're being dishonest.



    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    Autistic kids? Quite a many autistic people go on to become above average engineers. They most certainly can help solve world hunger.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas
    I was referring to mentally challenged individuals, not 'autistics'.
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    make up your mind.
    Preceding kojax's posts, here's my below statement:
    With very low intelligence comes serious limitations.
    You say "make up my mind" as if I'm back peddling, when in reality I'm not. What ever gave you the impression I ever referred specifically to all autistics ever?



    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    And what part of your body do you think controls your physical movement and behavior? Oh that's right, your brain.
    Seeing as osteoporosis is not a mental disability, your point is invalid.



    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    Nothing you just said makes any sense at all. Havingn one mental illness does not prevent the existance of a different one. I know a kid who has autism, retardation, schizophrenia, antisocial personality disorder, sociopathy/psychopathy, bipolar disorder, and oppositional defiance disorder.
    Hopefully I didn't take you out've context here, but your comment seems to enforce my statement that mental retardation automatically predisposes people to social disability(autism in this case).

    I think you should take a break from this thread, you're just going to get angrier if you stay here. I myself have been posting much less here but that's bound to happen at some point, this is page 5 afterall.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  28. #428  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    Well there is a backpeddle if I ever saw one. Earlier you stated that you COULD control your speach and that you spoke that way on purpose.
    Provide evidence or you're being dishonest.



    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    Autistic kids? Quite a many autistic people go on to become above average engineers. They most certainly can help solve world hunger.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas
    I was referring to mentally challenged individuals, not 'autistics'.
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    make up your mind.
    Preceding kojax's posts, here's my below statement:
    With very low intelligence comes serious limitations.
    You say "make up my mind" as if I'm back peddling, when in reality I'm not. What ever gave you the impression I ever referred specifically to all autistics ever?



    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    And what part of your body do you think controls your physical movement and behavior? Oh that's right, your brain.
    Seeing as osteoporosis is not a mental disability, your point is invalid.



    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    Nothing you just said makes any sense at all. Havingn one mental illness does not prevent the existance of a different one. I know a kid who has autism, retardation, schizophrenia, antisocial personality disorder, sociopathy/psychopathy, bipolar disorder, and oppositional defiance disorder.
    Hopefully I didn't take you out've context here, but your comment seems to enforce my statement that mental retardation automatically predisposes people to social disability(autism in this case).

    I think you should take a break from this thread, you're just going to get angrier if you stay here. I myself have been posting much less here but that's bound to happen at some point, this is page 5 afterall.
    Angry? I'm not angry and you are not a therapist. Perhaps you should take a break from telling others how they feel.

    I'll get back to you on the rest. It seems there are reading comprehension problems on your side. I will do my best to use smaller words to explain my points when I get back from searching all your posts where you claim you can control your speech.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  29. #429  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    Angry? I'm not angry and you are not a therapist. Perhaps you should take a break from telling others how they feel.

    I'll get back to you on the rest. It seems there are reading comprehension problems on your side. I will do my best to use smaller words to explain my points when I get back from searching all your posts where you claim you can control your speech.
    From what I can recall, I never specifically said I can control my speech. There's a chance I did say that(which would be an inaccurate statement) but I highly doubt it. I will 'admit' that there's a chance you're not being dishonest and simply made a mistake.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  30. #430  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    So I'd be mistaken if it turns out you DID say that? If you DID say that and it was inaccurate, then it would have been you being dishonest, er, mistaken, not me.
    Last edited by seagypsy; September 1st, 2013 at 11:06 AM.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  31. #431  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    Angry? I'm not angry and you are not a therapist. Perhaps you should take a break from telling others how they feel.

    I'll get back to you on the rest. It seems there are reading comprehension problems on your side. I will do my best to use smaller words to explain my points when I get back from searching all your posts where you claim you can control your speech.
    From what I can recall, I never specifically said I can control my speech. There's a chance I did say that(which would be an inaccurate statement) but I highly doubt it. I will 'admit' that there's a chance you're not being dishonest and simply made a mistake.
    So I'd be mistaken if it turns out you DID say that? If you DID say that and it was inaccurate, then it would have been you being dishonest, er, mistaken, not me.
    It's clear you misread my post, but it doesn't really matter since we both agree anyways(except for 'dishonest').
    Reply With Quote  
     

  32. #432  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    Angry? I'm not angry and you are not a therapist. Perhaps you should take a break from telling others how they feel.

    I'll get back to you on the rest. It seems there are reading comprehension problems on your side. I will do my best to use smaller words to explain my points when I get back from searching all your posts where you claim you can control your speech.
    From what I can recall, I never specifically said I can control my speech. There's a chance I did say that(which would be an inaccurate statement) but I highly doubt it. I will 'admit' that there's a chance you're not being dishonest and simply made a mistake.
    So I'd be mistaken if it turns out you DID say that? If you DID say that and it was inaccurate, then it would have been you being dishonest, er, mistaken, not me.
    It's clear you misread my post, but it doesn't really matter since we both agree anyways(except for 'dishonest').
    Then please clarify if I misread your post.

    Apparently YOU misread MY post because I didn't agree with you on anything.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  33. #433  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    It is interesting, I googled your id and specific terms relating to this thread and i found that you have been posting this crap across many many forums. On one you even had your id changed to lunes after you had already stated that you accused your vice principal of raping your daughter. What kind of nut job are you?

    Refuting "Autism" Behavior - Zoklet.net here you are using the id as "lunes" to push your anti autism agenda.
    Originally Posted by MoonCanvas
    Guy was sent to jail for 18 weeks and banned from the internet for 5 years, I'm not kidding. Apparently freedom of speech is just a bullshit lie.
    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2011/09/trol-s24.html

    Recently I actually sent an email to my former high school saying the vice principal "raped my daughter"(I actually have no kids). Douchebag police officers got to my room the next morning because a dumbass opened the door for them when they knocked. Apparently they were in my room because the email I sent was "slander" and the faggots bragged they could send me to jail for it if they wanted, apparently these creeps had tracked my IP adress. What the fuck happened to my freedom of speech?
    Troll Caught And Sentenced - Zoklet.netIn this one you apparently used mooncanvas as your id and after everyone had quoted you using that id you changed the id to "Lunes"


    MoonCanvas And you think you don't display autistic traits. obsessing is an autistic trait dude.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  34. #434  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,440
    Is this thread becoming an ego trip?

    Or possibly a pissing match?

    Sorry....boring....
    MoonCanvas likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  35. #435  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    What kind of nut job are you?
    Considering I was only referred to as a nutjob, I presume you haven't read any of the other threads where I've done far worse things(unspeakable things). And I most definitely, in a sense, would be considered by far the most fucked up person in this thread(I may very well be the only one, at that). That said, bringing my personal life into this is a bit unfair.

    You gotta remember, I'm not necessarily trying to change people's minds, this thread is really only here so other people can take a look at it and come to their own conclusions. I would prefer if you edited out your post... I can't say I'd thank you for it, but I'd have more respect for you if you did so.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  36. #436  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    What kind of nut job are you?
    Considering I was only referred to as a nutjob, I presume you haven't read any of the other threads where I've done far worse things(unspeakable things). And I most definitely, in a sense, would be considered by far the most fucked up person in this thread(I may very well be the only one, at that). That said, bringing my personal life into this is a bit unfair.

    You gotta remember, I'm not necessarily trying to change people's minds, this thread is really only here so other people can take a look at it and come to their own conclusions. I would prefer if you edited out your post... I can't say I'd thank you for it, but I'd have more respect for you if you did so.
    I don't require your respect. I also didn't bother reading any other threads as none of them were relevant to my search which was you referring to your speech(ny search terms were "mooncanvas" and "my speech"). I do however think that you have brought your own personal life into this by starting a thread about yourself and how you think you are discriminated against. I found evidence that you absolutely can think like a non-autistic person. I also found evidence that your intelligence is not what you claim it is. behaving as you do online, not in private, is evidence that you do not think logically or rationally. It also seems that you are not what you say you are at all and are simply trolling this forum as you have several others. I don't believe, anymore that you have ever been diagnosed as being autistic. You claimed on an autism forum that you are diagnosed neurotypical.





    I think you are playing games with us and insulting all people with autism in the process. You are on my ignore list from here on out.
    Last edited by seagypsy; September 2nd, 2013 at 10:48 PM.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  37. #437  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Is this thread becoming an ego trip?

    Or possibly a pissing match?

    Sorry....boring....
    Was someone supposed to be entertaining you? guess you can go back on ignore too.
    GiantEvil likes this.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  38. #438  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    behaving as you do online, not in private, is evidence that you do not think logically or rationally.
    And of course, behaving illogically or irrationally would also be considered autistic. Earlier you said obsessing is an autistic trait, but uncaring would also be considered an autistic trait as well. It seems no matter the trait, it's considered autistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    It also seems that you are not what you say you are at all and are simply trolling this forum as you have several others.
    I do things many consider 'troll' but if you're saying this entire thread is just me trolling then I'm forced to deny the accusation. It's clear I put a lot of effort into this, and most of my statements follow a coherent path so I don't see how I'm lying or being deceptive.

    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    I don't believe, anymore that you have ever been diagnosed as being autistic.
    You originally say my traits are autistic, but when I counter your arguments you then accuse me of lying about my autism diagnoses's.

    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    You claimed on an autism forum that you are diagnosed neurotypical. I think you are playing games with us and insulting all people with autism in the process.
    I don't think I ever said I was diagnosed neurotypical. I do recall having a brain scan indicating my brain is normal but for as long as I can remember, people have always thought I'm autistic. Edit: I stated "neurotypical" in my Wrong Planet profile because I don't believe autism exists.
    Last edited by MoonCanvas; September 9th, 2013 at 09:01 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  39. #439  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Double post
    Last edited by MoonCanvas; September 18th, 2013 at 01:40 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  40. #440  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Evidence against Asperger's below. Asperger's, or known as "autism with above-average to superior intelligence" is a natural state of mind. Smart people tend to possess evolutionarily novel traits such as nocturnailsm and also tend to be socially awkward(socially reclusive or very outspoken or just pisses people off in general). There is enough evidence to suggest this.

    Intelligence & Evolutionarily Novel Traits:
    Intelligent people have 'unnatural' preferences and values that are novel in human evolution
    Liberals and atheists smarter? Intelligent people have values novel in human evolutionary history, study finds
    The intelligent are evolutionary deviants? | The Mind Game

    Intelligence & Social Awkwardness:
    Correlation between intelligence and social deficiency - Psychology Wiki


    WrongPlanet(an autism forum) took a 'social intelligence' test. The test was created by Harvard and tested people's recognition of emotion from looking at eye contact. Some scored low, but plenty of them scored way above average. If autism is actually legitimate then people diagnosed shouldn't be scoring so high. How do you explain that?
    any aspie take the social iq quiz? - General Autism Discussion
    Reply With Quote  
     

  41. #441  
    Forum Ph.D. stander-j's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    854
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Evidence against Asperger's below. Asperger's, or known as "autism with above-average to superior intelligence" is a natural state of mind. Smart people tend to possess evolutionarily novel traits such as nocturnailsm and also tend to be socially awkward(socially reclusive or very outspoken or just pisses people off in general). There is enough evidence to suggest this.

    Intelligence & Evolutionarily Novel Traits:
    Intelligent people have 'unnatural' preferences and values that are novel in human evolution
    Liberals and atheists smarter? Intelligent people have values novel in human evolutionary history, study finds
    The intelligent are evolutionary deviants? | The Mind Game

    Intelligence & Social Awkwardness:
    Correlation between intelligence and social deficiency - Psychology Wiki


    WrongPlanet(an autism forum) took a 'social intelligence' test. The test was created by Harvard and tested people's recognition of emotion from looking at eye contact. Some scored low, but plenty of them scored way above average. If autism is actually legitimate then people diagnosed shouldn't be scoring so high. How do you explain that?
    any aspie take the social iq quiz? - General Autism Discussion
    And that is supposed to be relevant? WrongPlanet is not a Randon Sample. All that tells us is that: A group of people that, allegedly, have Autism -or- Aspergers actively seek out online social interaction and happened to have scores ranging from low to high on a "social intelligence" test that they elected to take.

    The members of Wrong Planet is not a random sample of people on the autistic spectrum. The fact that they are on a forum might even imply something about their interests, how successful their educators were et cetera. Nice piece of "evidence" though... At least I now know how well I interpret the emotional expressions expressed by the eye.
    "Cultivated leisure is the aim of man."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  42. #442  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    Quote Originally Posted by stander-j View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Evidence against Asperger's below. Asperger's, or known as "autism with above-average to superior intelligence" is a natural state of mind. Smart people tend to possess evolutionarily novel traits such as nocturnailsm and also tend to be socially awkward(socially reclusive or very outspoken or just pisses people off in general). There is enough evidence to suggest this.

    Intelligence & Evolutionarily Novel Traits:
    Intelligent people have 'unnatural' preferences and values that are novel in human evolution
    Liberals and atheists smarter? Intelligent people have values novel in human evolutionary history, study finds
    The intelligent are evolutionary deviants? | The Mind Game

    Intelligence & Social Awkwardness:
    Correlation between intelligence and social deficiency - Psychology Wiki


    WrongPlanet(an autism forum) took a 'social intelligence' test. The test was created by Harvard and tested people's recognition of emotion from looking at eye contact. Some scored low, but plenty of them scored way above average. If autism is actually legitimate then people diagnosed shouldn't be scoring so high. How do you explain that?
    any aspie take the social iq quiz? - General Autism Discussion
    And that is supposed to be relevant? WrongPlanet is not a Randon Sample. All that tells us is that: A group of people that, allegedly, have Autism -or- Aspergers actively seek out online social interaction and happened to have scores ranging from low to high on a "social intelligence" test that they elected to take.

    The members of Wrong Planet is not a random sample of people on the autistic spectrum. The fact that they are on a forum might even imply something about their interests, how successful their educators were et cetera. Nice piece of "evidence" though... At least I now know how well I interpret the emotional expressions expressed by the eye.
    Stander, do you have autism too? How many of us are there on this forum?
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  43. #443  
    Forum Ph.D. stander-j's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    854
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post


    Stander, do you have autism too? How many of us are there on this forum?
    There are times when I have strong suspicions that I might, but I don't truly know. If I do, no-one else has caught on either... Unless there's a big ol' conspiracy afoot!
    "Cultivated leisure is the aim of man."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  44. #444  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by stander-j View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Evidence against Asperger's below. Asperger's, or known as "autism with above-average to superior intelligence" is a natural state of mind. Smart people tend to possess evolutionarily novel traits such as nocturnailsm and also tend to be socially awkward(socially reclusive or very outspoken or just pisses people off in general). There is enough evidence to suggest this.

    Intelligence & Evolutionarily Novel Traits:
    Intelligent people have 'unnatural' preferences and values that are novel in human evolution
    Liberals and atheists smarter? Intelligent people have values novel in human evolutionary history, study finds
    The intelligent are evolutionary deviants? | The Mind Game

    Intelligence & Social Awkwardness:
    Correlation between intelligence and social deficiency - Psychology Wiki


    WrongPlanet(an autism forum) took a 'social intelligence' test. The test was created by Harvard and tested people's recognition of emotion from looking at eye contact. Some scored low, but plenty of them scored way above average. If autism is actually legitimate then people diagnosed shouldn't be scoring so high. How do you explain that?
    any aspie take the social iq quiz? - General Autism Discussion
    And that is supposed to be relevant? WrongPlanet is not a Randon Sample. All that tells us is that: A group of people that, allegedly, have Autism -or- Aspergers actively seek out online social interaction and happened to have scores ranging from low to high on a "social intelligence" test that they elected to take.

    The members of Wrong Planet is not a random sample of people on the autistic spectrum. The fact that they are on a forum might even imply something about their interests, how successful their educators were et cetera. Nice piece of "evidence" though... At least I now know how well I interpret the emotional expressions expressed by the eye.
    I just discovered something amazing... Apparently you can check their profiles to see if they were ever diagnosed or not. A majority of the low scorers on the emotional intelligence test were not officially diagnosed, while the people diagnosed with high-functioning autism or Asperger's scored relatively high. I know, that would mean trusting they aren't lying about being diagnosed, though I find the odds of them lying to be very low.

    I know you might take it offensively(please don't) but I find your response to be an excuse of sorts. I think it's unreasonable to suggest this isn't any form of evidence. In fact, it was my hypothesis to suggest people diagnosed with Asperger's would have emotional recognition capabilities corresponding with their intelligence.

    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by stander-j View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Evidence against Asperger's below. Asperger's, or known as "autism with above-average to superior intelligence" is a natural state of mind. Smart people tend to possess evolutionarily novel traits such as nocturnailsm and also tend to be socially awkward(socially reclusive or very outspoken or just pisses people off in general). There is enough evidence to suggest this.

    Intelligence & Evolutionarily Novel Traits:
    Intelligent people have 'unnatural' preferences and values that are novel in human evolution
    Liberals and atheists smarter? Intelligent people have values novel in human evolutionary history, study finds
    The intelligent are evolutionary deviants? | The Mind Game

    Intelligence & Social Awkwardness:
    Correlation between intelligence and social deficiency - Psychology Wiki


    WrongPlanet(an autism forum) took a 'social intelligence' test. The test was created by Harvard and tested people's recognition of emotion from looking at eye contact. Some scored low, but plenty of them scored way above average. If autism is actually legitimate then people diagnosed shouldn't be scoring so high. How do you explain that?
    any aspie take the social iq quiz? - General Autism Discussion
    And that is supposed to be relevant? WrongPlanet is not a Randon Sample. All that tells us is that: A group of people that, allegedly, have Autism -or- Aspergers actively seek out online social interaction and happened to have scores ranging from low to high on a "social intelligence" test that they elected to take.

    The members of Wrong Planet is not a random sample of people on the autistic spectrum. The fact that they are on a forum might even imply something about their interests, how successful their educators were et cetera. Nice piece of "evidence" though... At least I now know how well I interpret the emotional expressions expressed by the eye.
    Stander, do you have autism too? How many of us are there on this forum?
    Every intelligent person to ever exist, so it stands to reason a science forum would have many, assuming autism is real. Smart people exhibit unusual and novel behavior, it's a very simple concept.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  45. #445  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    Quote Originally Posted by stander-j View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post


    Stander, do you have autism too? How many of us are there on this forum?
    There are times when I have strong suspicions that I might, but I don't truly know. If I do, no-one else has caught on either... Unless there's a big ol' conspiracy afoot!
    I have never been officially diagnosed with it myself but when my son's psychiatrist explained to me what exactly aspergers/autism was and how it was determined that he had it, he also said that my son probably inherited it from me. I asked him why he said that and he said, that as much interaction as he had with me through visits with my kids, he could tell by observing me and had assumed I knew I had it since I was asking questions about having my son evaluated for it. He didn't realize I was oblivious to my own odd behaviors and mannerisms.

    I have spoken with my psychiatrist that I see now about it and she said I certainly have it but that my case is so high functioning it isn't worth mentioning and is certainly the least of my concerns. Not quite sure what she meant by that last part.
    stander-j likes this.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  46. #446  
    Forum Ph.D. stander-j's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    854
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    I know you might take it offensively(please don't) but I find your response to be an excuse of sorts. I think it's unreasonable to suggest this isn't any form of evidence. In fact, it was my hypothesis to suggest people diagnosed with Asperger's would have emotional recognition capabilities corresponding with their intelligence.
    I didn't say it wasn't evidence, it's just not evidence that can legitimately support your suspicions. It needs to be random. All you're finding is a correlation between users of Wrong Planet (a social network), and higher scores on emotional intelligence than one might expect for those on the autistic spectrum. Data are skewed when the variables they represent are not random. As an example:

    Let's say I create an IQ test. Now seeing as this type of IQ test has never been taken by anyone, I need to do a study with a sample. So, because I need a group of participants for the sample, I come to thescienceforum and ask everyone to take my IQ test. Now, for the sake of argument, let's just pretend all the current users take the test. I score the tests, run the numbers, and find my average IQ from my study.

    Is the "average IQ" accurate for my new IQ test? No. Well it might be, but I cannot say with certainty.

    Why not? Because my participants weren't randomly selected. I went to a forum dedicated to the discussion and study of science, and used its users as my sample.

    It's the same problem with your WrongPlanet submission... The data of the variable does not represent a randomly selected sample of people on the Autistic Spectrum - the data represents a very specific group of people who, we will assume, are on the Autistic Spectrum. Therefore the data are not reliable when used as evidence for the veracity of your claims, as they do not accurately represent people on the Autistic Spectrum as a whole - but merely those that belong to a very small, specific community.
    "Cultivated leisure is the aim of man."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  47. #447  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    I got bored so I left this thread to see what people could come up with in response to my recent posts, I'm a bit disappointed only one poster tried.

    Quote Originally Posted by strander-j
    I didn't say it wasn't evidence, it's just not evidence that can legitimately support your suspicions. It needs to be random. All you're finding is a correlation between users of Wrong Planet (a social network), and higher scores on emotional intelligence than one might expect for those on the autistic spectrum. Data are skewed when the variables they represent are not random. As an example:

    Let's say I create an IQ test. Now seeing as this type of IQ test has never been taken by anyone, I need to do a study with a sample. So, because I need a group of participants for the sample, I come to thescienceforum and ask everyone to take my IQ test. Now, for the sake of argument, let's just pretend all the current users take the test. I score the tests, run the numbers, and find my average IQ from my study.

    Is the "average IQ" accurate for my new IQ test? No. Well it might be, but I cannot say with certainty.

    Why not? Because my participants weren't randomly selected. I went to a forum dedicated to the discussion and study of science, and used its users as my sample.
    I can't tell for certain, but are you implying the "emotional recognition" test's average score was based off Wrong Planet? The test, created by Harvard, accounts for all people who ever took the test.

    But if you're suggesting the scores aren't strong enough evidence to support my suspicions, then there are a few flaws in your claim. Every Wrong Planet scorer we're aware of, made an excuse for getting a high score, indicating they probably genuinely believe themselves to be socially disabled; this makes the odds of test score manipulation much lower. Then there's the notion an autism forum would have people scoring really high on the test; perhaps this is the manifestation of a random group who coincidentally are good at emotional recognition, but these odds are also highly unlikely.

    Quote Originally Posted by stander-j
    It's the same problem with your WrongPlanet submission... The data of the variable does not represent a randomly selected sample of people on the Autistic Spectrum - the data represents a very specific group of people who, we will assume, are on the Autistic Spectrum. Therefore the data are not reliable when used as evidence for the veracity of your claims, as they do not accurately represent people on the Autistic Spectrum as a whole - but merely those that belong to a very small, specific community.
    More importantly the test scores show deviation can occur; individuals diagnosed with autism are sometimes without social disability. But then how can someone with autism not be disabled? This is yet another contradiction.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  48. #448  
    Forum Ph.D. stander-j's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    854
    No, I know the Harvard test was made for a much wider study, and not for wrong planet... But YOU are using the scores from Wrong Planet as an example. What Harvard used the test for is of no consequence here. We're strictly talking YOUR evidence - which actually has no average. My example is concerned with why your evidence doesn't actually support your beliefs.

    Watch yourself MoonCanvas... I read the WP thread myself, they did not all make excuses for their scores. Furthermore, you have failed to grasp the issue with you "evidence". No one is concerned of "test score manipulation" - the problem is the members of the forum are not an accurate representation of people on the A-Spectrum! How do you still not understand why that is a problem?

    MoonCanvas, you're delusional. There are no flaws in what I said. It isn't evidence, at least not for what you claim it to be. This honestly feels like explaining things to a five year old. I'm sorry, but my patience is up - I can't have a conversation with somebody that is deliberately misrepresenting what I say -or- simply cannot understand the very simple issues with your "evidence". You treat everything as if it is either black or white and then present a chewbacca defense as a rebuttal... As if having a disability means one must be rendered incapable of learning how to cope with it, and live a successful, social, independent life - yeah MC, that's a real contradiction (sarcasm).
    seagypsy likes this.
    "Cultivated leisure is the aim of man."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  49. #449  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by stander-j
    No, I know the Harvard test was made for a much wider study, and not for wrong planet... But YOU are using the scores from Wrong Planet as an example. What Harvard used the test for is of no consequence here. We're strictly talking YOUR evidence - which actually has no average. My example is concerned with why your evidence doesn't actually support your beliefs.
    Skepticism isn't a belief, I hope I cleared that up for you. Now, are you implying the evidence doesn't support my argument? Pardon my frankness, your recent gripes appear that of an apologist and your unwillingness to touch other such evidence(novel traits) shows I did support the argument I made.

    Quote Originally Posted by stander-j
    I read the WP thread myself, they did not all make excuses for their scores.
    So you're telling me "not all" of them made excuses for their scores; you don't appear confident.

    Quote Originally Posted by stander-j
    No one is concerned of "test score manipulation" - the problem is the members of the forum are not an accurate representation of people on the A-Spectrum! How do you still not understand why that is a problem?
    The evidence is not setup in a control environment, I understood that when I presented my case.

    Quote Originally Posted by stander-j
    MoonCanvas, you're delusional. There are no flaws in what I said. It isn't evidence, at least not for what you claim it to be. This honestly feels like explaining things to a five year old. I'm sorry, but my patience is up - I can't have a conversation with somebody that is deliberately misrepresenting what I say -or- simply cannot understand the very simple issues with your "evidence". You treat everything as if it is either black or white and then present a chewbacca defense as a rebuttal...
    Correct me if I'm wrong but did you just get angry? That is not what a winning argument looks like. If you're debating against what you view to be an irrational argument like Bigfoot, then your back shouldn't be against the wall. I'm just one person, surely you can best me.

    Quote Originally Posted by stander-j
    As if having a disability means one must be rendered incapable of learning how to cope with it, and live a successful, social, independent life - yeah MC, that's a real contradiction (sarcasm).
    This sounds like an appeal to emotion. But in all honesty, it seems you're redirecting the argument. If you're feeling uncomfortable then we can shift the topic to whatever you desire, just give me the word.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  50. #450  
    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,737
    Quote Originally Posted by stander-j View Post
    ...then present a chewbacca defense...
    I have never regretted putting MC on ignore.
    seagypsy likes this.
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  51. #451  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,440
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by stander-j View Post
    ...then present a chewbacca defense...
    I have never regretted putting MC on ignore.
    *chuckle* made life a little more pleasant!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  52. #452  
    New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1
    That which the dream shows is the shadow of such wisdom as exists in man, even if during his waking state he may know nothing about it... We do not know it because we are fooling away our time with outward and perishing things, and are asleep in regard to that which is real within ourselves..
    Reply With Quote  
     

  53. #453  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    I think I understood that. Fancy way of saying most people are in blissful ignorance of who and how they truly are.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  54. #454  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    I think I understood that. Fancy way of saying most people are in blissful ignorance of who and how they truly are.
    Correct, you're blind.

    Individuals who make sense of their interactions with their environment in ways that make sense to them as opposed to in ways that make sense to the parent, teacher, or a world view, are labeled because they cannot be manipulated. When we invalidate old ideas to promote new ones, ideas evolve. When we invalidate people to promote ideas, we stagnate.
    Last edited by MoonCanvas; September 28th, 2013 at 07:05 AM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  55. #455  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,046
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    I had never heard of it until about 2007. Ok well briefly from watching "Rainman" but the character in that movie was such an extreme cause and I have never met anyone who acted like him. And I have known many autistic people without even realizing it. And I actually enjoy studying psychology and did in highschool as well. But I looked up mental illnesses associated with mass murderers. So autism never crossed my radar.
    I watched part of that movie as a child, and hated it, because I had quite a lot in common with him, and he was being paraded around like a circus sideshow.
    I realized that, if I weren't careful, then people would think I was a circus sideshow too.


    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    behaving as you do online, not in private, is evidence that you do not think logically or rationally.
    And of course, behaving illogically or irrationally would also be considered autistic. Earlier you said obsessing is an autistic trait, but uncaring would also be considered an autistic trait as well. It seems no matter the trait, it's considered autistic.
    Haven't heard of "uncaring" being an autistic trait. Failing to show you care by making the right facial expression might be one. But those who are close to me know that I care about them even though it doesn't always show. For a long time my mother didn't. She'd just get incredibly mad at me. But she understands now.

    As far as irrational or logical behavior, it just depends on what another person's standard of "logical" or "rational" is. But obsessive compulsive type behavior is extremely common. I think it's really a side-effect, more than a basic trait of the disorder. You learn to become obsessive compulsive, in order to try and keep up with all the expectations and social cues of those around you.


    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    You claimed on an autism forum that you are diagnosed neurotypical. I think you are playing games with us and insulting all people with autism in the process.
    I don't think I ever said I was diagnosed neurotypical. I do recall having a brain scan indicating my brain is normal but for as long as I can remember, people have always thought I'm autistic. Edit: I stated "neurotypical" in my Wrong Planet profile because I don't believe autism exists.
    It's highly likely that you were misdiagnosed.

    Sorry man. It happens. It's just part of the way modern medicine works. Anyone can be misdiagnosed, no matter what disorder they have (or don't have but appear to have.)
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  56. #456  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    The most intelligent people on the planet have HFA/Asperger traits, which is not a coincidence. Just take a look at this list of the perceivably most intelligent people to ever live. For pete's sake, Albert Einstein is on the list. http://opishposh.com/10-people-with-...ever-recorded/

    This guy is also on the list, scored a verified IQ of 210. You must all ask yourselves if Asperger's is fundamentally existent.


    Asperger's and intelligence are the exact same thing; you cannot get along with your 'peers' because they aren't your peers in terms of mental functioning.
    Last edited by MoonCanvas; October 4th, 2013 at 09:50 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  57. #457  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    The most intelligent people on the planet have HFA/Asperger traits, which is not a coincidence. Just take a look at this list of the perceivably most intelligent people to ever live. For pete's sake, Albert Einstein is on the list. 10 People With The Highest IQ Ever Recorded
    You'll find all sorts of ridiculous claims from feel good sites about recognizable important people that have what ever disability the web site targets. Most are pure bunk with little supporting evidence.

    This guy is also on the list, scored a verified IQ of 210.
    Honestly you post too much about a topic you know so little about. There are no reliable IQ test for scores over 160. Any claims of a person above that points are at best extrapolations not any number that's been verified. A 210 would put something in above 7 standard deviations...something like 1 in a billion category. There isn't enough sample size to draw any sort of meaningful conclusion--nor a test that can test at that range. I doubt there ever will be.

    Asperger's and intelligence are the exact same thing; you cannot get along with your 'peers' because they aren't your peers in terms of mental functioning.
    More unsupported gibberish.
    seagypsy and PhDemon like this.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  58. #458  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    I feel you're refuting things that don't really need to be refuted, the only thing that matters is how they're probably geniuses.

    More unsupported gibberish.
    Well there might be some physical signs of Asperger's like clumsiness, but symptoms are too broad and often bring us back to the 'geek' label. Do you have any symptoms in mind that we can quantity or define with any ease?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  59. #459  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Here's a better question. Why do you think autism is real?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  60. #460  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Well there might be some physical signs of Asperger's like clumsiness, but symptoms are too broad and often bring us back to the 'geek' label. Do you have any symptoms in mind that we can quantity or define with any ease?
    We don't have to guess, it's well studied and enough of it is available to the general public to draw meaningful conclusions about.

    You seem to have many misconceptions related to this subject.

    You seem to assume that people of high IQ are bad communicators, which is the opposite of reality. High IQ, more often than note can be traced to faster command of verbal skills as infants and in most cases holds into adulthood.

    You assert that high IQ and the same as Asbergers and in many threads on this forum have tried to connect it to yourself under that false assumption. The reality is Asbergers/high functioning autism generally has a similar intelligence range as the non-autism population (about 1:20 will score greater than 130), particularly when fluid IQ is measured but generally lower intelligence in other areas of intelligence such as communication, social language, kinesthetic (draw off Gardner's work). In fact you could probably state many of the diagnostic criteria directly or indirectly measures their uneven intelligence.

    And yes, absolutely I think autism is real. I've been around a lot of general education classrooms as well as special education who were diagnosed with autism.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  61. #461  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox
    You seem to assume that people of high IQ are bad communicators, which is the opposite of reality. High IQ, more often than note can be traced to faster command of verbal skills as infants and in most cases holds into adulthood.
    No, we're actually in agreement over this.

    You assert that high IQ is the same as Asbergers
    I make no such assertions as I often view IQ as pseudo science, except when tests indicate a high enough score(in which case I go by relative intelligence).

    And yes, absolutely I think autism is real. I've been around a lot of general education classrooms as well as special education who were diagnosed with autism.
    I've had the same experience you've described. I can actually recall back to a time when I used to think autism is real. But I never knew why I used to think it was real, I just did so without having a particular reason. That was a long time ago though.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  62. #462  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    794
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    I'm sick and tired of being treated like a retard just because I'm a nerd. Autism label is complete discrimination.

    It reminds of the "you're going to hell" comments some religious people make, that essentially means they think you'll burn in eternal damnation. The "you seem autistic" quickly turns into an insinuation that I have a brain defect. I have looked up dictionary meanings only to findout that the definition of nerd is nearly identical to the diagnosis of high functioning autism, which I'm not happy about. I will say it here and now; autism doesn't exist. How dare you say I have a brain disorder?! I will fight for my rights and ask others diagnosed on the spectrum to fight for theirs as well.

    What has our society come to, that we declare anyone who's like Einstein or Beethoven are mentally impaired? Gay people had to fight for their rights for homosexuality not to be a disorder and so do us nerds. Nerds slave over science inventing stuff like IPods, Laptops, just about everything, and now these consumers respond by labeling us with a defect? Maybe nerds should stop inventing things for these selfish, ignorant imps.

    Sensory Processing Disorder Explained | SPD Foundation Is far better suited to describe those currently diagnosed with severe autism.
    im sorry but Einstein never was a nerd nor anyone saw him as a nerd...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  63. #463  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    10,676
    Quote Originally Posted by blackscorp View Post
    im sorry but Einstein never was a nerd nor anyone saw him as a nerd...
    And you know this how?
    As a child, he was a loner and often repeated sentences obsessively until he was seven years old.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  64. #464  
    Forum Freshman Lazy Jester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Halifax NS
    Posts
    47
    MoonCanvas, some of the following comments are nearly impossible to express without condescending or patronizing undertones and for that I apologize. Please understand that my good intentions are genuine and that I do not wish to demean you in any way.


    Having said that, I find that you too often position your statements in what seems a deliberate attempt to assert your intellect and demean potential contradicting views. You then give the impression of misinterpreting the resulting lack of acknowledgement of your abilities as a personal attack which often prompts you to entrench yourself in stances that I suspect even you find fallible. Unfortunately, instead of pondering the possibility that you erred or unclearly communicated your stance, you aggressively debate ab nauseum for the sake of sparing your pride. This is an extremely common attitude witnessed in almost every forums by a wide range of posters with different age, creed, religion, level of intelligence and professional background. I'll be the first to admit that I am guilty of harboring a certain amount of pride in my judgement and that pride often leads me to alienating results.


    For the longest time I believed that being right was the ultimate proof of my abilities and I subscribed to the notion that I was only responsible for what I said and not for what people understood. Relegating detractors of my views as simpletons or fools and finding myself backtracking instead of acknowledging that someone accurately pointed out flaws in my reasoning or in the way I presented it. I'll spare you the details of my catastrophic and painful experiences resulting from the application of those two hazardous beliefs. Had I been as smart as I thought I was, I would have taken less than 20 years to adjust my attitude and to realize that a consilient approach if far more productive. You'll find the ability to conciliate instead of confronting far more rewarding.


    Had you not demonstrated some valid reasoning and ability to change your stance, I would not have wasted time to make this post. I believe your contributions would be better received if you were to express them as concise and conditional views instead of emotionally charged and arrested ones. Although it is seldom explained to you, the ire you generate is often not aimed at your reason or you personally as much as it is to the way you express yourself and the perceived importance you seem to attribute to the veracity of your conclusions. When people comment on your assertions, although it may not seem that way at times, it is not you they are attacking as much as what you wrote and the way you wrote it. I don't see forums as a timed contest to prove anything but rather a place to exchange ideas. If you want to make it a pissing contests fine but don't expect much to come out of it. Otherwise, take your time and ask yourself if what you are about to write will accurately reflect what you think and if it has the potential to benefit someone else. I'm afraid that your current ways might lead you to being universally ignored or worse, barred.


    I'll be bold here and try to reformulate your original post with what I think is what you wanted to express and in a manner that would have been better received (please let me know if the spirit of this interpretation is consistent with what you wanted to express):


    "I am tired of being belittled by people who assume I have a mental illness just because my interests are different then theirs. Being labelled as autistic is an unfair discrimination.

    Just like some religious groups reject non believers, they condemn me because of my interest in science and technology and my lack of interest in social interaction. For them, there must be something wrong with me and they identify my behavior with autism. I read about autism and and found it troubling that "nerds" seem to share a lot with those diagnosed with high functioning autism. I reject their conclusion and don't think that my brain is defective. I will defend my right to be different and encourage people who are wrongly diagnosed with high functioning autism to do the same.

    What has our society come to, that we declare anyone who's intellect sets them apart like Einstein or Beethoven as being mentally impaired? Homosexuals had to fight for their rights and for the recognition that homosexuality was not an impairment, "nerds" should to the same. "Nerds" contribution to society is immense, things like IPods, laptops and just about everything technical in nature, and now some consumers of those same goods respond by labeling us as mentally impaired? Maybe if "nerds" stopped inventing things, those who associate intellectual difference with mental impairment would see things differently."


    To that post I would have responded:
    The behavioral similarities with people diagnosed on the spectrum of high functioning autism and those with exceptional intellectual inclinations are quite similar indeed. You shouldn't feel insulted as so many exceptional thinkers were and are still often associated, de facto, with high functioning autism.


    As for those who consider differences as impairments, I usually ignore them or if I'm in a good "mental space" and suspect earnest ignorance on their part, I may attempt to explain that diversity is a most wonderful thing that shouldn't be approached so negatively.
    Last edited by Lazy Jester; October 5th, 2013 at 02:07 PM. Reason: Re-sized text (was way too big on a scaled browser)
    Common sense is like deodorant...The people who need it most never use it.
    ~Unknown
    If I'm going to be an ass, might as well be a smart one.
    ~Me
    Reply With Quote  
     

  65. #465  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    Asperger's and intelligence are the exact same thing; you cannot get along with your 'peers' because they aren't your peers in terms of mental functioning.
    I saw this quoted in Lynx_Fox's post.

    Apparently MC isn't aware that there are many highly intelligent people with IQ's at or above 160 that function just fine in social settings, even among, people of average or less than average intelligence. Which completely negates the idea that high intelligence is the same thing as HFA/Aspergers.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  66. #466  
    Malignant Pimple shlunka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dogbox in front of Dywyddyr's house.
    Posts
    1,784
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by stander-j View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post


    Stander, do you have autism too? How many of us are there on this forum?
    There are times when I have strong suspicions that I might, but I don't truly know. If I do, no-one else has caught on either... Unless there's a big ol' conspiracy afoot!
    I have never been officially diagnosed with it myself but when my son's psychiatrist explained to me what exactly aspergers/autism was and how it was determined that he had it, he also said that my son probably inherited it from me. I asked him why he said that and he said, that as much interaction as he had with me through visits with my kids, he could tell by observing me and had assumed I knew I had it since I was asking questions about having my son evaluated for it. He didn't realize I was oblivious to my own odd behaviors and mannerisms.

    I have spoken with my psychiatrist that I see now about it and she said I certainly have it but that my case is so high functioning it isn't worth mentioning and is certainly the least of my concerns. Not quite sure what she meant by that last part.
    I also have not been clinically diagnosed. But, exhibit many of the symptoms. This morning I took an online quiz on the matter "Quizzes are iffy but whatever". 0-29 is normal, 30-33 is possible autism, 34+ is autism likely. I scored a 40.
    "MODERATOR NOTE : We don't entertain trolls here, not even in the trash can. Banned." -Markus Hanke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  67. #467  
    Forum Freshman Lazy Jester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Halifax NS
    Posts
    47
    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    I also have not been clinically diagnosed. But, exhibit many of the symptoms. This morning I took an online quiz on the matter "Quizzes are iffy but whatever". 0-29 is normal, 30-33 is possible autism, 34+ is autism likely. I scored a 40.
    Out of curiosity, would you mind sharing the link to that quiz? Pleeeeeeaze

    I have quite the list of summary diagnosis from varied "experts" but I'm waiting for the "implementation dust" of DSM 5 to settle before seeking thorough testing and clinical diagnosis. For now, I'm quite content of my "eccentric" label which imply a fortune I do not posses.
    Last edited by Lazy Jester; October 5th, 2013 at 03:03 PM. Reason: Clarity
    Common sense is like deodorant...The people who need it most never use it.
    ~Unknown
    If I'm going to be an ass, might as well be a smart one.
    ~Me
    Reply With Quote  
     

  68. #468  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    I have never been officially diagnosed but two psychiatrists stated off record that they felt I had it but that it is far from a primary issue of concern for me. But I have also taken online tests. I took one many years ago that had a scale of 0-50 with neurotypical for a female to be about 15-25. I scored 7 (still not neurotypical, but it didn't explain what getting a lower than normal score meant) on that test. While an acquaintance I had at the time that was severely socially disabled by what he said was aspergers, but I suspect he was not high functioning at all, but that may have been due to other mental issues he has, he scored 50.

    but I more recently took another test that said I was highly probable to have Aspergers syndrome. i think online tests that give unofficial diagnosis are not reliable and it is probably very misleading to take them. Though my curiosity gets me every time.
    Last edited by seagypsy; October 5th, 2013 at 03:24 PM.
    Lazy Jester likes this.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  69. #469  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    This may be the test that shlunka took. Wired 9.12: Take The AQ Test I just took it and got a 40 as well.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  70. #470  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    33. Overall impression is that it's a bogus test...basically if you're not a social butterfly you might be autistic. A test that results in mostly false positives is garbage.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; October 5th, 2013 at 07:00 PM.
    MoonCanvas likes this.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  71. #471  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Asperger's and intelligence are the exact same thing; you cannot get along with your 'peers' because they aren't your peers in terms of mental functioning.
    I saw this quoted in Lynx_Fox's post.

    Apparently MC isn't aware that there are many highly intelligent people with IQ's at or above 160 that function just fine in social settings, even among, people of average or less than average intelligence. Which completely negates the idea that high intelligence is the same thing as HFA/Aspergers.
    A group of geniuses consisting of Albert Einstein, Thomas Edison, Issac Newton, Bill Gates, Mark Twain, Wolfgang Mozart, Vincent Vangogh, and Beethoven. All whom are diagnosed or strongly speculated to have had a form of autism. Look for the people who have contributed most to their respective fields and you will find Asperger's.

    Other notable cases; Jacob Barnett, Kim Ung-Yong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy Jester
    Relegating detractors of my views as simpletons or fools and finding myself backtracking instead of acknowledging that someone accurately pointed out flaws in my reasoning or in the way I presented it.
    I've been known to change my view on various other topics when presented with contradicting evidence; Flat Earth Myth, serial killer's intelligence correlation, Martingale System. I'm not one to knowingly continue pushing a fallible assertion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy Jester
    As for those who consider differences as impairments, I usually ignore them or if I'm in a good "mental space" and suspect earnest ignorance on their part, I may attempt to explain that diversity is a most wonderful thing that shouldn't be approached so negatively.
    Asperger's is considered to be an impairment, like most disorders are.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  72. #472  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Asperger's and intelligence are the exact same thing; you cannot get along with your 'peers' because they aren't your peers in terms of mental functioning.
    I saw this quoted in Lynx_Fox's post.

    Apparently MC isn't aware that there are many highly intelligent people with IQ's at or above 160 that function just fine in social settings, even among, people of average or less than average intelligence. Which completely negates the idea that high intelligence is the same thing as HFA/Aspergers.
    A group of geniuses consisting of Albert Einstein, Thomas Edison, Issac Newton, Bill Gates, Mark Twain, Wolfgang Mozart, Vincent Vangogh, and Beethoven. All whom are diagnosed or strongly speculated to have had a form of autism. Look for the people who have contributed most to their respective fields and you will find Asperger's.

    Other notable cases; Jacob Barnett, Kim Ung-Yong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy Jester
    Relegating detractors of my views as simpletons or fools and finding myself backtracking instead of acknowledging that someone accurately pointed out flaws in my reasoning or in the way I presented it.
    I've been known to change my view on various other topics when presented with contradicting evidence; Flat Earth Myth, serial killer's intelligence correlation, Martingale System. I'm not one to knowingly continue pushing a fallible assertion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy Jester
    As for those who consider differences as impairments, I usually ignore them or if I'm in a good "mental space" and suspect earnest ignorance on their part, I may attempt to explain that diversity is a most wonderful thing that shouldn't be approached so negatively.
    Asperger's is considered to be an impairment, like most disorders are.
    I took you off of ignore briefly, in hope that Lazyjester's comments would have done some good but apparently it did not.

    I will address only one thing here because frankly I only read the first part of your post and my eyes couldn't stop rolling for a while after that.

    When you say all those geniuses were diagnosed or speculated to have asperger's syndrome, who exactly is doing the speculating? I have never heard of Thomas Edison to have been speculated to have had aspergers, nor have I ever heard that Bill Gates has it. Maybe he does but I don't tend to give too sh!ts about celebrities, I don't care how nerdy they may be. Nerds are not necessarily socially awkward. Among their own they do just fine. But there is no higher likelihood of a room full of aspies getting along well either. Aspergers alone does not dictate that all people with Aspergers express themselves the same or have the same mannerisms. I am sure I would feel just as awkward with kojax and dywyddyr as I would with any other two people and that we would all three likely have miscommunication between us. Hell, it happens between us here on this forum. And I have NEVER been called a nerd,nor a geek. I have been called odd, creepy, and rude, but never a nerd or a geek. And I doubt that I or my son will ever be famous for contributing paradigm shifting technologies or concepts just because we are smart and socially awkward. But we will likely be able to get good jobs that don't require us to be the life of the party to get our next promotion.

    Let's put it this way, if high intelligence and aspergers were the same thing, then ALL people with high intelligence would have asperger's syndrome and all people with aspergers syndrome would be highly intelligent. And that simply is NOT the case.

    And with that you are going back on ignore. I won't bother giving any hope that you may improve any more.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  73. #473  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    Criticism of MC aside, I can and do see frustration in that it seems mental malady diagnosis are thrown around wildly by non-psychiatrists at people that the psuedodiagnosticians don't even personally know. Scooter Ward, the lead singer of a former band I really like never looks at the crowd as he sings. And he didn't make eye contact with me on the two occasions I met and spoke with him. For most people, well most of those who post incessantly on social networking sites or those piss poor excuses for journalists that write articles for any online news source, especially yahoo, that's all the evidence that they need to say ... ooooh ooooh he has aspergers! When the more logical and most likely cause of him not making eye contact while singing is stage fright, and not making eye contact with me was that he had absolutely no interest in anything I was saying because it was the same shit EVERY fan he meets says, or there was a hot easy looking chick just behind me that he was making plans to bed later. There are lots of reasons why a neurotypical person may display some aspergers trait or some trait of any type of disorder. Displaying one or two traits of any disorder is not significant enough to assume a person is worthy of diagnosis. That is why psychiatrists go to school for as long as they do, that is why there is the DSM. That is why there are batteries of tests that have to be done before a diagnosis and/or treatment is given.

    A child who one time throws a tantrum and announces that they hate their mother does not necessarily have Oppositional Defiance Disorder. He may just be a friggin brat. Or maybe his mother is horrible and killed his puppy in front of him and deserves to be subjected to the rage of her child.

    It seems these days there are so many gullible idiots allowed to have access to the internet that they believe anyone who knows how to get their ridiculous ideas and opinions posted, especially in a blog, because as we all know, only EXPERTS can publish blogs or write articles for yahoo, must only be posting tested and true facts consistant with undeniable reality. And then there are those who diagnose themselves for who knows what reasons, even celebrities do it. Are they hypochondriacs? Do they want an excuse for what they think other people perceive as weirdness? Do they think if they claim an illness they will be asked to be a spokesman for some charity? Are they delusional? Who cares?!! Oh that's right, people who have no life care. People who need hobbies care. And so the cycle continues.

    Do I have asperger's. I don't friggin know. My psychiatrist doesn't think its that important if I do. My son on the other hand does have it. And it does cause him despair. So is it real? Absolutely. Do as many people have it as any Tom Dick or Jane speculates. I highly doubt it. Is it discrimination. Hell no. Apparently having Asperger's is all the rage. You just aren't cool these days unless you have aspergers. Because apparently too many dipshit journalists and bloggers have convinced the numbskulls of society that having aspergers means you are a genius and who doesn't want to be seen as a genius? I'd love to have my name on a list with Einstein among others.

    It's just too bad people are so damn attention starved that they will claim a mental disability in order to get that attention.

    Oh oh everyone should love me, I have aspergers, that means I am smart, I am special... they make a ribbon in my honor. I am exempt from ridicule.....

    Maybe I don't have aspergers, maybe I just hate people. PhDemon.... maybe I should just chill with you.

    This article seems to go into better detail than I did. But I have no idea if the journalist that wrote it is worth the paper I wipe my ass on. I just don't trust magazines or newspapers to hire decent writers these days.

    It's a bit long winded if you read the whole thing, I only read the first page.

    Is Everyone on the Autism Spectrum? -- New York Magazine
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  74. #474  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Note; I'm busy reading your above post, I'll respond to it later.

    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    I have never heard of Thomas Edison to have been speculated to have had aspergers
    He didn't speak until age 4, ignored basic hygiene, and had an intense interest in science.

    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    nor have I ever heard that Bill Gates has it. Maybe he does but I don't tend to give too sh!ts about celebrities,
    Bill Gates is diagnosed with Asperger's.

    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    Let's put it this way, if high intelligence and aspergers were the same thing, then ALL people with high intelligence would have asperger's syndrome and all people with aspergers syndrome would be highly intelligent. And that simply is NOT the case.
    The correlation is strong enough to make a case.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  75. #475  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Disclaimer; I've been quoting you a bunch, but that's only cause you've posted a lot of content.

    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    When the more logical and most likely cause of him not making eye contact while singing is stage fright, and not making eye contact with me was that he had absolutely no interest in anything I was saying because it was the same shit EVERY fan he meets says, or there was a hot easy looking chick just behind me that he was making plans to bed later
    I use the same logic, which is how I came to some of my conclusions.

    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    My son on the other hand does have it. And it does cause him despair. So is it real? Absolutely.
    Using similar logic here, it's possible your son has a hatred for irrationality, or feels disturbed by how poorly others interpret him, or possibly feels no need for social engagement because of its superficiality. Whether Asperger's exists or not, there's going to be a logical explanation for social awkwardness.

    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    Apparently having Asperger's is all the rage. You just aren't cool these days unless you have aspergers. Because apparently too many dipshit journalists and bloggers have convinced the numbskulls of society that having aspergers means you are a genius and who doesn't want to be seen as a genius? I'd love to have my name on a list with Einstein among others.
    Yes, it certainly is naive of them to want the diagnosis just for the sake of being perceived as 'smart'. It's an unspoken rule among themselves; they say they have Asperger's, but when pressed hard enough, will claim Asperger's isn't a mental illness.

    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    This article seems to go into better detail than I did. But I have no idea if the journalist that wrote it is worth the paper I wipe my ass on. I just don't trust magazines or newspapers to hire decent writers these days.

    It's a bit long winded if you read the whole thing, I only read the first page.

    Is Everyone on the Autism Spectrum? -- New York Magazine
    I've read most of the article, there is some accuracy to it but many different interpretations can be reached. The general idea of the article is that autism is over-diagnosed. My personal interpretation is that since everyone is on the autism spectrum, nobody is on the autism spectrum.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  76. #476  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    nor have I ever heard that Bill Gates has it. Maybe he does but I don't tend to give too sh!ts about celebrities,
    Bill Gates is diagnosed with Asperger's.


    ....The correlation is strong enough to make a case.....
    Honestly you just need to stop posting unsupported crap in these forums. It's tiresome, distracting, and completely counter with the intent of this part of the forum. You continue to ignore credible peer reviewed evidence posted by others that counter your ideas, and just keep posting your half-cocked unsupported ideas over and over. You seem to be making no effort to contribute in meaningful way as a science minded person and aren't learning from others. I'm sending you away for one day just to consider comments here; Jester's post should probably be read and considered three or four times.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  77. #477  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,440
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    I scored 38 and have never had any indications of autism ever (just misanthropy).
    14 here......
    Reply With Quote  
     

  78. #478  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox
    Honestly you just need to stop posting unsupported crap in these forums. It's tiresome, distracting, and completely counter with the intent of this part of the forum. You continue to ignore credible peer reviewed evidence posted by others that counter your ideas, and just keep posting your half-cocked unsupported ideas over and over. You seem to be making no effort to contribute in meaningful way as a science minded person and aren't learning from others. I'm sending you away for one day just to consider comments here; Jester's post should probably be read and considered three or four times.
    *sigh
    Reply With Quote  
     

  79. #479  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    re-Lazy Jester's post #467. The mechanics of the forum allow me to award only one Like for the post. Please consider this to be the other twenty four I believe it deserves.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  80. #480  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    re-Lazy Jester's post #467. The mechanics of the forum allow me to award only one Like for the post. Please consider this to be the other twenty four I believe it deserves.
    So basically you think that because I bring up an implication/coincidence, that I treat it as a solid fact.

    Lazy Jester's post deals with the reality of being wrong, not whether I am wrong. A convincing argument would have been better(they are rare).
    Last edited by MoonCanvas; October 7th, 2013 at 07:30 AM. Reason: Typo
    Reply With Quote  
     

  81. #481  
    Forum Freshman Lazy Jester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Halifax NS
    Posts
    47
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    re-Lazy Jester's post #467. The mechanics of the forum allow me to award only one Like for the post. Please consider this to be the other twenty four I believe it deserves.
    So basically you think that because I bring up an implication/coincidence, that I treat it as a solid fact.

    Lazy Jester's post deals with the reality of being wrong, not whether I am wrong. A convincing argument would have been better(they are rare).
    Before this goes any further MoonCanvas, and to avoid lengthy side debates, would you mind telling me if you think that my interpretation of your original post is accurate? If so, could you please let me know where I misinterpreted what you meant to say.

    If you indulge my request, I will be better inclined to discuss the comments I directed at you. To make myself clear, in my view, you have demonstrated on numerous occasions your ability to use reason effectively and also shown that you could change your views when presented with appropriate arguments. I value those abilities in others and persist in thinking that your contributions could be made much more valuable should you choose to modify your approach.

    Mr. Galt, thank you very much for your generous compliment. I must caution you though, such compliments have the potential to unleash an ego of biblical proportion that took nearly 30 years to contain.
    Common sense is like deodorant...The people who need it most never use it.
    ~Unknown
    If I'm going to be an ass, might as well be a smart one.
    ~Me
    Reply With Quote  
     

  82. #482  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy Jester
    Before this goes any further MoonCanvas, and to avoid lengthy side debates, would you mind telling me if you think that my interpretation of your original post is accurate? If so, could you please let me know where I misinterpreted what you meant to say.
    You ask me whether your interpretation of my original post is accurate, knowing full well it's impossible for me to disagree with the interpretation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy Jester
    If you indulge my request, I will be better inclined to discuss the comments I directed at you. To make myself clear, in my view, you have demonstrated on numerous occasions your ability to use reason effectively and also shown that you could change your views when presented with appropriate arguments. I value those abilities in others and persist in thinking that your contributions could be made much more valuable should you choose to modify your approach.
    Since you knew I'd be unable to indulge the request, you now proceed to butter me up for a hypnotic suggestion of sorts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy Jester
    As for those who consider differences as impairments, I usually ignore them or if I'm in a good "mental space" and suspect earnest ignorance on their part, I may attempt to explain that diversity is a most wonderful thing that shouldn't be approached so negatively.

    There's not much to nitpick about your interpretation of my original post, but I can think of a few things. Depending on interpretation of it, it can support either of our stances. I don't view differences as impairments, hence my attitude towards certain matters.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  83. #483  
    Forum Freshman Lazy Jester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Halifax NS
    Posts
    47
    MoonCanvas, welcome to my iggy bin.
    seagypsy likes this.
    Common sense is like deodorant...The people who need it most never use it.
    ~Unknown
    If I'm going to be an ass, might as well be a smart one.
    ~Me
    Reply With Quote  
     

  84. #484  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    I don't view differences as impairments, hence my attitude towards certain matters.
    Many differences are not impairments but that doesn't mean all are. But there is no doubt autism, even at high-functioning levels, is an impairment: It interferes with someone's ability to communicate with others leading to difficulties learning, understanding verbal directions and distractions from important events such as a police officer's commands (a good number are mistakenly killed by cops after mutual misunderstanding), it also reduces their ability to build close relations and support necessary to get one through the most difficult moments of life, which it turn can lead to other psychological problems; it is also usually associated with poor dexterity making autistic people accident prone.
    seagypsy likes this.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  85. #485  
    Forum Senior MoonCanvas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    I don't view differences as impairments, hence my attitude towards certain matters.
    Many differences are not impairments but that doesn't mean all are. But there is no doubt autism, even at high-functioning levels, is an impairment: It interferes with someone's ability to communicate with others leading to difficulties learning, understanding verbal directions and distractions from important events such as a police officer's commands (a good number are mistakenly killed by cops after mutual misunderstanding), it also reduces their ability to build close relations and support necessary to get one through the most difficult moments of life, which it turn can lead to other psychological problems; it is also usually associated with poor dexterity making autistic people accident prone.
    Given your reasoning, there's nothing that can be done for you. I'd love to tell you why I think you're wrong but I'd just be banned for it. I have always understood where everyone was coming from, it's just that I don't view it as rational minded.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  86. #486  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCanvas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    re-Lazy Jester's post #467. The mechanics of the forum allow me to award only one Like for the post. Please consider this to be the other twenty four I believe it deserves.
    So basically you think that because I bring up an implication/coincidence, that I treat it as a solid fact.

    Lazy Jester's post deals with the reality of being wrong, not whether I am wrong. A convincing argument would have been better(they are rare).
    I have no idea how you could arrive at that conclusion from what I wrote. LJ wrote a concise, well-structured, logically argued and compassionate post. I was impressed and elevated by it. That was why I posted my comment. It's not all about you Moon Canvas, even when it's about you.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  87. #487  
    Forum Freshman Lazy Jester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Halifax NS
    Posts
    47
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Many differences are not impairments but that doesn't mean all are. But there is no doubt autism, even at high-functioning levels, is an impairment: It interferes with someone's ability to communicate with others leading to difficulties learning, understanding verbal directions and distractions from important events such as a police officer's commands (a good number are mistakenly killed by cops after mutual misunderstanding), it also reduces their ability to build close relations and support necessary to get one through the most difficult moments of life, which it turn can lead to other psychological problems; it is also usually associated with poor dexterity making autistic people accident prone.
    I'm not a fan of politically correctness as I find it the intellectual equivalent of sweeping dust under the carpet. Looks good but it's still dirty. It's always difficult to separate social or any other type of impairment from the general label impaired, handicap or the repulsive tag retard. Unfortunately we often qualify someone with a challenging condition as impaired although the specific impairment they face is also the source of their exceptional abilities. There is still no good word to explain that impairments are not universal and are limited to a specific realm.

    All this to say that having a challenging condition, or impairment or handicap or whatever you wish to call it, shouldn't define a person as a whole. To some degree we all have social, physical, intellectual and moral impairments, some of which are the very catalysts of our strongest attributes. I think it's our fear of acknowledging our own limitations that prompts us to label others in an effort to elevate our ego. When we humble our ego and learn to celebrate differences, the world becomes a source of wonder not fear. Where impairments have the potential to elevate us all.

    I struggle everyday with this concept and try my best to apply it but sometimes I'm just a prick who forgot. One of my impairments I guess.
    Last edited by Lazy Jester; October 11th, 2013 at 07:52 AM. Reason: Orthographic impairment ;)
    RedPanda and seagypsy like this.
    Common sense is like deodorant...The people who need it most never use it.
    ~Unknown
    If I'm going to be an ass, might as well be a smart one.
    ~Me
    Reply With Quote  
     

  88. #488  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,440
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy Jester View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Many differences are not impairments but that doesn't mean all are. But there is no doubt autism, even at high-functioning levels, is an impairment: It interferes with someone's ability to communicate with others leading to difficulties learning, understanding verbal directions and distractions from important events such as a police officer's commands (a good number are mistakenly killed by cops after mutual misunderstanding), it also reduces their ability to build close relations and support necessary to get one through the most difficult moments of life, which it turn can lead to other psychological problems; it is also usually associated with poor dexterity making autistic people accident prone.
    I'm not a fan of politically correctness as I find it the intellectual equivalent of sweeping dust under the carpet. Looks good but it's still dirty. It's always difficult to separate social or any other type of impairment from the general label impaired, handicap or the repulsive tag retard. Unfortunately we often qualify someone with a challenging condition as impaired although the specific impairment they face is also the source of their exceptional abilities. There is still no good word to explain that impairments are not universal and are limited to a specific realm.

    All this to say that having a challenging condition, or impairment or handicap or whatever you wish to call it, shouldn't define a person as a whole. To some degree we all have social, physical, intellectual and moral impairments, some of which are the very catalysts of our strongest attributes. I think it's our fear of acknowledging our own limitations that prompts us to label others in an effort to elevate our ego. When we humble our ego and learn to celebrate differences, the world becomes a source of wonder not fear. Where impairments have to potential to elevate us all.

    I struggle everyday with this concept and try my best to apply it but sometimes I'm just a prick who forgot. One of my impairments I guess.
    What a wonderful response!! I applaud you!!
    Reply With Quote  
     

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345

Similar Threads

  1. A discrimination phenomenon?
    By consistency in forum Behavior and Psychology
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: April 29th, 2013, 02:14 PM
  2. Vaccinations and Autism
    By mat5592 in forum Health & Medicine
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: April 7th, 2013, 04:10 AM
  3. Asperger Autism
    By holding4ever in forum Health & Medicine
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: August 11th, 2012, 04:05 AM
  4. autism
    By theQuestIsNotOver in forum Behavior and Psychology
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: June 4th, 2008, 04:18 PM
  5. Gender discrimination in separate sex toilets
    By TB in forum Behavior and Psychology
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: August 3rd, 2006, 02:41 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •