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Thread: Chronic Pain

  1. #1 Chronic Pain 
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    I've been putting a lot of thought into the lack of successful treatment for chronic pain that now exists in the US. The more I think about it the angrier I become with all these doctors who are responsible. They appear to be perfectly content with letting patients kill themselves rather than risk them becommikng addicted to pain medication even though it's a well established fact that people who take narcotics for pain don't get addicted. I'm beginning to think that doctors are merely physics students that failed.

    Here is what I was able to learn so far about the whole thing. It appears that a lot of chronic pain patients end up killing themselves. No sure how many though. How many is too many?


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    Opiates for Pain Mitigation

    From the website Opioid Side Effects

    Psychological addiction is more common in people taking opioids recreationally, it is rare in patients taking opioids for pain relief.

    This part is important because people who take opiates for pain should know that they are unlikely to become addicted. Side effects such as itching aren’t that bad since it can easily be treated. It should never be used as an excuse not to prescribe them, i.e.

    ''Itching'': tends not to be a severe problem when opioids are used for pain relief, but if required then antihistamines are useful for counteracting itching. Non-sedating antihistamines such as fexofenadine are preferable so as to avoid increasing opioid induced drowsiness, although some sedating antihistamines such as orphenadrine may be helpful as they produce a synergistic analgesic effect which allows smaller doses of opioids to be used while still producing effective analgesia.

    A good idea would be to take orphenadrine so as to get better pain relief with lower doses. Using this the medication can titrate up slower than otherwise. The patient will therefore grow tolerant more slowly. Therefore one shouldn’t worry about such sedating side effects.

    The definition of the term addiction should be changed to refer only to the psychological dependency rather than the physiological dependency because the term addiction has a negative connotation to it. One should not get the idea that being addicted to a medication is not a bad idea since it will confuse people who are not familiar with the terminology and different people might mean different things when the term is used and this can cause misunderstandings.

    People with a substance disorder should never be denied opiates for the sole reason that they might develop a psychological addiction to it. This is the advice given by both AA and NA. From The AA Member – Medications & Other Drugs page 13 (http://www.aa.org/pdf/products/p-11_...ersMedDrug.pdf)

    AA members and many of their physicians have described situations in which depressed patients have been told by A.A.s to throw away the pills, only to have depression return with all its difficulties, sometimes resulting in suicide. (…) Unfortunately, by following a layman’s advice, the sufferers find that their conditions can return with all their previous intensity. On top of that, they feel guilty because they are convinced that “A.A. is against pills.”
    It becomes clear that just as it is wrong to enable or support any alcoholic to become readdicted to any drug, its equally wrong to deprive any alcoholic of medication which can alleviate or control other disabling physical and/or emotional problems.

    Combine opiate with canabanoid to reduce pain allowing a lower dosage of opiate to be used. Narcotics Anonymous (NA) (http://www.na.org/admin/include/spaw...of Illness.pdf)

    Page 14 - Our experience shows that many NA members have been successful in taking medication as prescribed and maintaining their recovery.

    Page 15 - The urge to allow ourselves to suffer unnecessarily rather than take medication may be great. We resist this urge to stubbornly insist that we know better than the doctor, refuse all medications, or neglect problems that require medical attention. ..... Nonprescription drugs can be as dangerous as those prescribed by a physician.

    Page 35 - Our experience shows that many NA members have been successful in taking medication as prescribed for chronic pain and keeping their recovery intact.

    Patients with chronic pain at high risk for suicide
    Chronic pain suicide: Chronic pain can drive patients to suicidal thoughts and actions - Orlando Sentinel

    Two months ago Gary Rager's girlfriend asked him to do the unthinkable.

    The 44-year-old woman, who has suffered disabling pain for the past three years, asked Rager if he would help her end her life.

    I don’t want to kill her, and I don’t want to go to prison. But I don’t want to see her suffer anymore either,” said Ragert, a 59-year-old Sanford scultor whose work appearfs in area theme parks and public spaces throughout Orlando.

    Such are the desperate measures that many afflicted with chronic disabling conditions – and those who love them – contemplate.

    Some do more than think about it. …..

    Large scale studies show thatr at least 10 percent of suicides – and possibly as many as 70 percent – are linked to chronic illness or unrelenting pain.

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    Last edited by PhyMan; June 28th, 2013 at 08:57 AM.
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  3. #2  
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    I think this really depends on the doctor. There is a whole branch of medicine devoted to treating pain.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Alec Bing View Post
    I think this really depends on the doctor. There is a whole branch of medicine devoted to treating pain.
    Most pain specialists are really "shot doctors" though. I.e. most of the pain clinics that exist will only do so much for the patient. The first things they'll try are muscle relaxers and NSAIDS and meds like Neurontin and Ultram (aka tramadol). Then they'll try epidural steroid injections. Then they'll try spinal cord stimulation. Then there are the newer treatments like transcranial mangetic stimulation. Some people praise acupuncture and acupressure while others praise chiropracters. I myself have run the whole gambit and all of them have failed. I've even sliced my throat open once because I just couldn't take anymore pain. But that was aftger close to a decare of more than constant moderate pain. Itg messes with your head after so long. Luckily I lived through it all and have finally found a wonderful doctor who has reasured me that he won"t let me suffer any longer. I actually wept with joy at that. Now it's my turn to help others and that's the game plan right now, i.e. advocate for people with chronic pain.

    So if you have chronic pain I am now reasuring you that I will spend the rest of my life doing the best I can to advocate for you. The fight is on and I'm up for it.
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    I would like to get as much input on this subject from as many people as I can. I want to know what your beliefs and opinions are. Here as some beginning questions to think about and you can take if from there. Thank you for your time.

    Note: I will not judge anybody for their opinion on this topic ... unless your really out there of course. By this I mean that I'm not the kind of person who judges people for their opinions. Worst case I might think very little of you if you're a doctor who could care less how much pain their patients live with so long as you don't get into trouble for it.

    Thank you so much for your participation!

    Questions

    (1) Without looking the term up in a dictionary please tell state what you think people, doctors and the average person, asssume is meant when the term addicted means. If you don't believe that the term is used correctly when people use it then please state how you would like to see it defined.

    (2) Do you believe that if someone starts taking narcotics for pain that they'll probably become addicted to them?

    (3) Do you believe that it's bad to be addicted to narcotics?

    (4) How much pain do you believe you could live with on a continuos basis without being disabled from it, i.e. without loosing your ability to work to the extent that you could support yourself.

    (5) Do you believe that a drug addict should be given narcotics for their pain if they have a pain level constantly at the level of moderate to severe without pain medication.

    (6) How much pain do you believe it is morally acceptable to allow a person with chronic pain to be allowed to live with?
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhyMan View Post
    I would like to get as much input on this subject from as many people as I can. I want to know what your beliefs and opinions are. Here as some beginning questions to think about and you can take if from there. Thank you for your time.

    Note: I will not judge anybody for their opinion on this topic ... unless your really out there of course. By this I mean that I'm not the kind of person who judges people for their opinions. Worst case I might think very little of you if you're a doctor who could care less how much pain their patients live with so long as you don't get into trouble for it.

    Thank you so much for your participation!

    Questions

    (1) Without looking the term up in a dictionary please tell state what you think people, doctors and the average person, asssume is meant when the term addicted means. If you don't believe that the term is used correctly when people use it then please state how you would like to see it defined.

    (2) Do you believe that if someone starts taking narcotics for pain that they'll probably become addicted to them?

    (3) Do you believe that it's bad to be addicted to narcotics?

    (4) How much pain do you believe you could live with on a continuos basis without being disabled from it, i.e. without loosing your ability to work to the extent that you could support yourself.

    (5) Do you believe that a drug addict should be given narcotics for their pain if they have a pain level constantly at the level of moderate to severe without pain medication.

    (6) How much pain do you believe it is morally acceptable to allow a person with chronic pain to be allowed to live with?
    (1) Without looking the term up in a dictionary please tell state what you think people, doctors and the average person, asssume is meant when the term addicted means. If you don't believe that the term is used correctly when people use it then please state how you would like to see it defined.
    (1) Without looking the term up in a dictionary please tell state what you think people, doctors and the average person, asssume is meant when the term addicted means. If you don't believe that the term is used correctly when people use it then please state how you would like to see it defined.
    Drug addict. Heroin is not used for cancer patients (terminal) because it is addictive, yet it is known as one of the most effective pain reliever. We are nicer to our dogs. (2) Do you believe that if someone starts taking narcotics for pain that they'll probably become addicted to them? NO! I took them and never got addicted or suffered from withdrawals when I stopped.
    (3) Do you believe that it's bad to be addicted to narcotics? That question isn't clear. In what circumstances are you talking about? (4) How much pain do you believe you could live with on a continuos basis without being disabled from it, i.e. without loosing your ability to work to the extent that you could support yourself. I have been in chronic pain since 2000. You learn to deal. (5) Do you believe that a drug addict should be given narcotics for their pain if they have a pain level constantly at the level of moderate to severe without pain medication.
    Again unclear. A drug addict and a person who deals with chronic pain aren't the same. (6) How much pain do you believe it is morally acceptable to allow a person with chronic pain to be allowed to live with?[/QUOTE (6) How much pain do you believe it is morally acceptable to allow a person with chronic pain to be allowed to live with?[/QUOTE](1) Without looking the term up in a dictionary please tell state what you think people, doctors and the average person, asssume is meant when the term addicted means. If you don't believe that the term is used correctly when people use it then please state how you would like to see it defined. I don't think people who live in severe chronic pain should not have relief, however, I also believe one has to make sure that is the case. TOo many people just want the oxycondin or the Percocet or stronger.
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    Babe – Please forgive me if I get things confused in my responses below. The way you wrote your post your responses are kind of fused with the questions. Its hard to read. It’s even worse for me because I have a cataract in one eye and couldn’t get glasses because of it. Now everything is a bit distorted to begin with. Please be patient with me. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Drug addict. Heroin is not used for cancer patients (terminal) because it is addictive, yet it is known as one of the most effective pain reliever. We are nicer to our dogs.
    I don’t understand. That’s not a definition. At best it’s an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    NO! I took them and never got addicted or suffered from withdrawals when I stopped.
    You don’t believe that if someone takes pain killers then it neccesarily means they won’t get addicted. Thanks for answering.

    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    That question isn't clear. In what circumstances are you talking about?
    Yeah. I know it’s vauge but it was almost meant to be. I was unaware that heroin helps pain but since it’s an opiate it doesn’t surprise me either. I’m trying to determine what people’s perceptions are regarding opiate pain relievers. I’m also trying to understand what comes to a persons mind when they see or hear people talk about being addicted to something. It seems to me that some people use the term to refer to being physiologically dependant whereas others use it only to mean psychologically dependant. I created this thread to confirm or correct my perceptions regarding my this stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I have been in chronic pain since 2000. You learn to deal.
    I’m sorry but I don’t understand your response. The question was in regards to how much pain you can handle and work at the same time. Not whether you are able to handle it or learn to deal with it. I‘m not sure what you mean by “deal with it.” I’ve been in chronic pain since 2004. There were times where the pain was so bad I was unable to even stand up, never mind work. Now the pain isn’t so bad that I can’t walk but I’m a physicist and as such I need to be able to concentrate very deeply. I’m unable to do that with the kind of pain I have when I’m not taking anything for it. I was hoping to get a broad spectrum of ideas and opinions and understand what people in our society want out of their doctors. You see, as it is now I’m much better off than when I started this thread. My entire life has been turned around by one compassionate doctor. I’m now able to have some real hope that I won’t be abandoned by my doctor. So now that I’m more able to move about I’d like to advocate for people with chronic pain so I need to find out what those folks within the chronic pain community want. I think first off I’m going to try to set up a support group in the area. Then try to gather the best information I can and get it approved by a pain specialist and/or clinic. Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Again unclear. A drug addict and a person who deals with chronic pain aren't the same.
    I think that you missed the last part of the sentence where I wrote … if they have a pain level constantly at the level of moderate to severe. The reason I wrote it in that way has to do with how the purpose of the drug is stated. I.e. take a look at how the purpose/use of oxycontin is described

    Oxycontin Information from Drugs.com
    OxyContin is used to treat moderate to severe pain that is expected to last for an extended period of time. OxyContin is used for around-the-clock treatment of pain. It is not to be used on an "as-needed" basis for pain.
    Since it specifies “moderate to severe pain” that’s what I used to ask the question.
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I don't think people who live in severe chronic pain should not have relief, however, I also believe one has to make sure that is the case. TOo many people just want the oxycondin or the Percocet or stronger.
    Yeah, but this thread is about chronic pain. When someone goes on an opiate for chronic pain they stay on it for a very long time. The euphoria is a temporary condition and does not last. Pain medication can be distributed to patients by a visiting nurse or automatically with, say, a morphine pump (something I learned about here! Thanks!) I was told by a top physician and read in a book about prescription drug addiction that people who take opiates for pain don’t get addicted. I heard about how people used to take oxycontin recreationally. They used to wipe off the protective coating and crunch it into a fine powder and snort it. The drug companies found a way to prevent drug addicts from doing that, or at least made it very difficult for them to do it. The ones I have are very hard. It can’t be crunched and powdered as it is now. Every once in a while when I wanted the pain med to kick in faster I’d bite down on it and chew it to let my body absorb it faster. It didn’t make me high but it made my pain relief faster. Now it’s almost biting into a piece of lead. Hard and a bit malable. Not possible to chew now nor possible to powderize it.

    Thank you so much for responding. I greatly appreciate it! If you have any recomendations which can help me set up a support group or have information you think such a group would want please let me know. Please feel free to PM me too. Us chronic pain folks should stick together.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhyMan View Post
    Questions

    (1) Without looking the term up in a dictionary please tell state what you think people, doctors and the average person, assume is meant when the term addicted means. If you don't believe that the term is used correctly when people use it then please state how you would like to see it defined.

    (2) Do you believe that if someone starts taking narcotics for pain that they'll probably become addicted to them?

    (3) Do you believe that it's bad to be addicted to narcotics?

    (4) How much pain do you believe you could live with on a continuous basis without being disabled from it, i.e. without loosing your ability to work to the extent that you could support yourself.

    (5) Do you believe that a drug addict should be given narcotics for their pain if they have a pain level constantly at the level of moderate to severe without pain medication.

    (6) How much pain do you believe it is morally acceptable to allow a person with chronic pain to be allowed to live with?
    When I was in my late teens and twenties I suffered with cluster headaches. It's a form of migraine headache that comes in clusters of intense short duration painful events usually on just one side of the head. Mine were mostly on the left side and that included my left eye. The doctors told me that not much was known about cluster headaches and I tried every experimental drug they had at that time with no help. I went through every test they could think of and some of those were very nasty all by themselves. Still no cause could be found. When the clusters were at there worst I would have to take percodan a narcotic that require a special prescription in triplicate.

    I never got addicted to it and sometimes the pain was bad enough that I would take more than the prescribed dose. Yes the skin did itch when I over did the dosage.

    I eventually did find out what was causing them on my own. Back in the late 60's and 70's when just about everyone young started using pot, they also burned a great deal of incense. When you burn incense in your home that smoke settles out on everything. Apparently I was very allergic to some component of the incense and when exposed to it for about 30 minutes I'd start having the painful headaches. The main reason it was hard to put a finger on was because even when it wasn't being burned the secondary effects of the smoke that settled out on everything in the house was enough to cause headaches.

    When I was in my 30's I'd pretty much quick smoking much pot and I didn't have a lot of friends that burned incense, and I was left wondering why I wasn't having headaches anymore, until after many years I met a woman I was interested in. Went to her house and she had some incense burning and in about 30 minutes I started feeling the same characteristic tightness in my scalp that preceded the very painful start of a cluster headache. Well we left before it got any worse and I felt sure I knew what caused those terrible headaches. I tested myself again in 30 days and proved it. I then made a point of telling my doctor about that finding. I don't know what he did with that information, but I did my part in helping to find the cause.

    However when I broke my foot, I had to take a narcotic pain killer for about 2 months, and I was miserable for about a week after the prescription ran out. I very much wanted more just so I wouldn't feel so miserable. I have to say that was very much the start of a physical addiction.

    However if someone is old and in pain I can't see why anyone would care about addiction if it was monitored by a doctor and left the person much better off than being in constant pain. I also favor a dignified death when there is no hope of ever having quality of life again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhyMan View Post
    Yeah, but this thread is about chronic pain. When someone goes on an opiate for chronic pain they stay on it for a very long time. The euphoria is a temporary condition and does not last. Pain medication can be distributed to patients by a visiting nurse or automatically with, say, a morphine pump (something I learned about here! Thanks!) I was told by a top physician and read in a book about prescription drug addiction that people who take opiates for pain donít get addicted. I heard about how people used to take Oxycontin recreationally. They used to wipe off the protective coating and crunch it into a fine powder and snort it. The drug companies found a way to prevent drug addicts from doing that, or at least made it very difficult for them to do it. The ones I have are very hard. It canít be crunched and powdered as it is now. Every once in a while when I wanted the pain med to kick in faster Iíd bite down on it and chew it to let my body absorb it faster. It didnít make me high but it made my pain relief faster. Now itís almost biting into a piece of lead. Hard and a bit mailable. Not possible to chew now nor possible to powderize it.

    Thank you so much for responding. I greatly appreciate it! If you have any recommendations which can help me set up a support group or have information you think such a group would want please let me know. Please feel free to PM me too. Us chronic pain folks should stick together.
    May I ask the nature of your chronic pain. With Oxycontin you do develop a physical addiction or dependence and it doesn't matter whether you have any feelings of euphoria or not. The reaction you have when the long term use of the drug is stopped will kick you hard in the ass and you won't have anymore doubts about it. Another reason doctors want to be very careful is that many people that want to die will simply take an overdose. Anyway that would be my choice of a good way to go out.

    If you want to grind the pills up, the kitchen store sells crucibles and pestle pestle - Bing Images just like pharmacist use for that purpose, and I can tell you they work on any pills.
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    I've been on pain meds for many years now. I've been given a morphine pump as well which was fine until other areas of my body were in pain then I needed something for my entire body. Morphine pills seems to be working OK so far and I use it cautiously and carefully. It does not have a "high" that I can feel but only a relief to my chronic pain.

    Many medications will cause addiction and that is why going to a pain management center or doctor that deals with pain is the best way to go. Many problems can be found with all pain medications so just know that and be prepared to do something about whatever it is that presents itself while undergoing pain management medications.

    Always see a doctor about getting pain relief.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot
    May I ask the nature of your chronic pain.
    Absolutely. That’d only be fair. I have degenerative disk disease, spinal stenosis and arthritis. There’s also some scar tissue pressing on nerves as are the herniated disks. There’s also some nerve bundles floating around doing something or other. I also have a few fracturned vertebrae, loose joints and a torn ligament somewhere. As one of my old physicians said You have a lot of disease down there. but wasn’t willing to lift a finger to help make the pain go away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot
    With Oxycontin you do develop a physical addiction or dependence and it doesn't matter whether you have any feelings of euphoria or not. The reaction you have when the long term use of the drug is stopped will kick you hard in the ass and you won't have anymore doubts about it. Another reason doctors want to be very careful is that many people that want to die will simply take an overdose. Anyway that would be my choice of a good way to go out.
    I had one screwball physician who said he wouldn’t recommend it because I could use it to hurt myself. Of course he was ignoring the fact that I’d only want to do that if I didn’t have anything for pain. Damn doctors had me running around in circles like a chicken with my head cut off.

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler
    I've been on pain meds for many years now. I've been given a morphine pump …
    Yes. I recall. You’re the person where I learned about their existance. Thank you again for that information. It proved to be very helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler
    as well which was fine until other areas of my body were in pain then I needed something for my entire body. Morphine pills seems to be working OK so far and I use it cautiously and carefully. It does not have a "high" that I can feel but only a relief to my chronic pain.
    I’m happy to hear that you’re doing so well. You’ve been on opiates for how many years now may I ask?
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    Iím happy to hear that youíre doing so well. Youíve been on opiates for how many years now may I ask?
    Thank you for your concern.

    I've been on them over 8 years now. I just am getting use to more pain than taking more meds. The meds only reduce the level of pain but never eliminate it. Chronic pain and depression go hand in hand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhyMan View Post
    Absolutely. Thatíd only be fair. I have degenerative disk disease, spinal stenosis and arthritis. Thereís also some scar tissue pressing on nerves as are the herniated disks. Thereís also some nerve bundles floating around doing something or other. I also have a few fractured vertebrae, loose joints and a torn ligament somewhere. As one of my old physicians said You have a lot of disease down there. but wasnít willing to lift a finger to help make the pain go away.

    I had one screwball physician who said he wouldnít recommend it because I could use it to hurt myself. Of course he was ignoring the fact that Iíd only want to do that if I didnít have anything for pain. Damn doctors had me running around in circles like a chicken with my head cut off.
    If I had your problems I'd feel the same as you do now. Your right, many doctors would rather cover their asses than do what's right for their patients. It really pays to find a good doctor. But why are doctors the way they are? Lawyers suing them. Insurance companies telling them what they will and won't cover.

    I can't remember how many times I've had headaches so bad that if I had access to a gun, I might have ended it, because at the time I thought I was going to have to live with that pain for the rest of my life. The pain was so bad I couldn't stand for anyone else to even see me suffering like that. If I was in public, I had to get anyplace I could be alone fast and If I was with friends I would have to excuse myself and go home or find a room that I could be alone for about an hour.

    Have you looked into that laser surgery that they've been advertizing for diagnosed back problems? It sounds good but I have to wonder if it really is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhyMan View Post
    The more I think about it the angrier I become with all these doctors who are responsible. They appear to be perfectly content with letting patients kill themselves rather than risk them becommikng addicted to pain medication even though it's a well established fact that people who take narcotics for pain don't get addicted. I'm beginning to think that doctors are merely physics students that failed.
    It's not the doctors. It's the DEA, which tracks pain med prescriptions and prosecutes compassionate doctors. If you've been studying this subject then surely you know this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot
    Have you looked into that laser surgery that they've been advertizing for diagnosed back problems? It sounds good but I have to wonder if it really is.
    Yes. It costs tons of money. About $15,000 as I recall.

    Quote Originally Posted by someguy1
    It's not the doctors. It's the DEA, which tracks pain med prescriptions and prosecutes compassionate doctors. If you've been studying this subject then surely you know this.
    Absolutely I know this. Doctors can get sued anytime that they hurt a patient. I would have thought that not helping a patient would be considered as hurting a patient. Boy am I wrong when I think like that! So why is it that doctors are only concerned about hurting a patient in this particular way and not, say, when the doctor doesn't lift a finger to help the patient and they blow their brains out because they can't deal with the pain. And I hear that kind of thing here and there when I look into this. But the dead are very silent and can't hire a lawyer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhyMan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot
    Have you looked into that laser surgery that they've been advertizing for diagnosed back problems? It sounds good but I have to wonder if it really is.
    Yes. It costs tons of money. About $15,000 as I recall.
    So your insurance won't cover it? Actually other methods of surgery would cost a lot more.
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    I think that I need to take a more direct approach. Perhaps I should make an appointment with the nearest DEA Office, sit down and have a pow-wow with these people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhyMan View Post
    I think that I need to take a more direct approach. Perhaps I should make an appointment with the nearest DEA Office, sit down and have a pow-wow with these people.
    Maybe you should, however, do your homework first. Are there any presidents of anybody else doing what you want to do? I can't believe others haven't been just as concerned as you are about this problem. What have they been doing? No need for you to do anything that's already been tried and failed.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Surgery is something I thought about but they wanted to first put metal rods in my vertebrate to hold them in place so they won't move at all which means I can't bend to pick up anything. That didn't sound like a good idea because I live alone and if I needed something I'd be having difficulties trying to do simple bending moves. Then they came along with a disc replacement which every 3 years needed to be replaced with more surgery. I didn't relish that much either. Having any surgery done exposes you to infections and that's not very good.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
    Jimi Hendrix
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    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Surgery is something I thought about but they wanted to first put metal rods in my vertebrate to hold them in place so they won't move at all which means I can't bend to pick up anything. That didn't sound like a good idea because I live alone and if I needed something I'd be having difficulties trying to do simple bending moves. Then they came along with a disc replacement which every 3 years needed to be replaced with more surgery. I didn't relish that much either. Having any surgery done exposes you to infections and that's not very good.
    Supposedly the laser surgery bypasses all those problems and it's cheaper. It must work or how could they advertise it on TV? The only reason I can see for not giving it a shot is if your uninsured or your insurance refuses to cover the procedure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot
    Maybe you should, however, do your homework first.
    As always, of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot
    Are there any presidents of anybody else doing what you want to do?
    I've alread tried finding that out. Way too difficult to find out. That's actually part of what I hope to accomplish at the DEA agency.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot
    I can't believe others haven't been just as concerned as you are about this problem. What have they been doing? No need for you to do anything that's already been tried and failed.
    I would never not make an attempt because someone else tried and failed, regardless of who they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot
    Supposedly the laser surgery bypasses all those problems and it's cheaper. It must work or how could they advertise it on TV? The only reason I can see for not giving it a shot is if your uninsured or your insurance refuses to cover the procedure.
    Sorry about that. I forgot to mention that I already contacted them only to learn that my health inssurance doesn't cover it. I checked into it as soon as I first learned about it, early last year.
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    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhyMan View Post
    Sorry about that. I forgot to mention that I already contacted them only to learn that my health insurance doesn't cover it. I checked into it as soon as I first learned about it, early last year.
    I would check that status frequently, you never know when it might change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PhyMan View Post
    Sorry about that. I forgot to mention that I already contacted them only to learn that my health insurance doesn't cover it. I checked into it as soon as I first learned about it, early last year.
    I would check that status frequently, you never know when it might change.
    I already mentioned that in our sister forum at
    Ethical question
    The good news is that I found a new doctor who made it clear that I can count on him not to let me suffer, at least until the pain meds stop working and the amount taken at that point becomes too dangerous to increase. But that'd be many years from now. I can go back to grad school, get my graduate work and get a lot done during that time. Who knows. Maybe Medicare will pay for Laser Spine Surgery by then!
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  24. #23  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhyMan View Post
    Babe – Please forgive me if I get things confused in my responses below. The way you wrote your post your responses are kind of fused with the questions. Its hard to read. It’s even worse for me because I have a cataract in one eye and couldn’t get glasses because of it. Now everything is a bit distorted to begin with. Please be patient with me. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Drug addict. Heroin is not used for cancer patients (terminal) because it is addictive, yet it is known as one of the most effective pain reliever. We are nicer to our dogs.
    I don’t understand. That’s not a definition. At best it’s an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    NO! I took them and never got addicted or suffered from withdrawals when I stopped.
    You don’t believe that if someone takes pain killers then it neccesarily means they won’t get addicted. Thanks for answering.

    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    That question isn't clear. In what circumstances are you talking about?
    Yeah. I know it’s vauge but it was almost meant to be. I was unaware that heroin helps pain but since it’s an opiate it doesn’t surprise me either. I’m trying to determine what people’s perceptions are regarding opiate pain relievers. I’m also trying to understand what comes to a persons mind when they see or hear people talk about being addicted to something. It seems to me that some people use the term to refer to being physiologically dependant whereas others use it only to mean psychologically dependant. I created this thread to confirm or correct my perceptions regarding my this stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I have been in chronic pain since 2000. You learn to deal.
    I’m sorry but I don’t understand your response. The question was in regards to how much pain you can handle and work at the same time. Not whether you are able to handle it or learn to deal with it. I‘m not sure what you mean by “deal with it.” I’ve been in chronic pain since 2004. There were times where the pain was so bad I was unable to even stand up, never mind work. Now the pain isn’t so bad that I can’t walk but I’m a physicist and as such I need to be able to concentrate very deeply. I’m unable to do that with the kind of pain I have when I’m not taking anything for it. I was hoping to get a broad spectrum of ideas and opinions and understand what people in our society want out of their doctors. You see, as it is now I’m much better off than when I started this thread. My entire life has been turned around by one compassionate doctor. I’m now able to have some real hope that I won’t be abandoned by my doctor. So now that I’m more able to move about I’d like to advocate for people with chronic pain so I need to find out what those folks within the chronic pain community want. I think first off I’m going to try to set up a support group in the area. Then try to gather the best information I can and get it approved by a pain specialist and/or clinic. Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Again unclear. A drug addict and a person who deals with chronic pain aren't the same.
    I think that you missed the last part of the sentence where I wrote … if they have a pain level constantly at the level of moderate to severe. The reason I wrote it in that way has to do with how the purpose of the drug is stated. I.e. take a look at how the purpose/use of oxycontin is described

    Oxycontin Information from Drugs.com
    OxyContin is used to treat moderate to severe pain that is expected to last for an extended period of time. OxyContin is used for around-the-clock treatment of pain. It is not to be used on an "as-needed" basis for pain.
    Since it specifies “moderate to severe pain” that’s what I used to ask the question.
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I don't think people who live in severe chronic pain should not have relief, however, I also believe one has to make sure that is the case. TOo many people just want the oxycondin or the Percocet or stronger.
    Yeah, but this thread is about chronic pain. When someone goes on an opiate for chronic pain they stay on it for a very long time. The euphoria is a temporary condition and does not last. Pain medication can be distributed to patients by a visiting nurse or automatically with, say, a morphine pump (something I learned about here! Thanks!) I was told by a top physician and read in a book about prescription drug addiction that people who take opiates for pain don’t get addicted. I heard about how people used to take oxycontin recreationally. They used to wipe off the protective coating and crunch it into a fine powder and snort it. The drug companies found a way to prevent drug addicts from doing that, or at least made it very difficult for them to do it. The ones I have are very hard. It can’t be crunched and powdered as it is now. Every once in a while when I wanted the pain med to kick in faster I’d bite down on it and chew it to let my body absorb it faster. It didn’t make me high but it made my pain relief faster. Now it’s almost biting into a piece of lead. Hard and a bit malable. Not possible to chew now nor possible to powderize it.

    Thank you so much for responding. I greatly appreciate it! If you have any recomendations which can help me set up a support group or have information you think such a group would want please let me know. Please feel free to PM me too. Us chronic pain folks should stick together.
    P< PM me I just typed you a response and it was over the number of characters I was allowed...and I ain't gonna do it again Let is suffice....I think pain management is for most doctors a non issue, as they don't get it. Heroin should be allowed for terminal patients...who the hell cares if they get addicted. If you use any kind of pain med wrong you can get addicted...never got euphoric just sick to my stomach....have moved on to massage, and exercise to help. It does help. Chronic pain is no joke. It is simply horrible to live with, but you can also focus on it only or focus. I understand FOCUS in your job. I am a singer/actor and when I am on stage, I am not thinking that my neck, or back or anything else hurts. I have to be VERY focused. PM me....if you wish....
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  25. #24  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhyMan View Post
    Babe – Please forgive me if I get things confused in my responses below. The way you wrote your post your responses are kind of fused with the questions. Its hard to read. It’s even worse for me because I have a cataract in one eye and couldn’t get glasses because of it. Now everything is a bit distorted to begin with. Please be patient with me. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Drug addict. Heroin is not used for cancer patients (terminal) because it is addictive, yet it is known as one of the most effective pain reliever. We are nicer to our dogs.
    I don’t understand. That’s not a definition. At best it’s an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    NO! I took them and never got addicted or suffered from withdrawals when I stopped.
    You don’t believe that if someone takes pain killers then it neccesarily means they won’t get addicted. Thanks for answering.

    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    That question isn't clear. In what circumstances are you talking about?
    Yeah. I know it’s vauge but it was almost meant to be. I was unaware that heroin helps pain but since it’s an opiate it doesn’t surprise me either. I’m trying to determine what people’s perceptions are regarding opiate pain relievers. I’m also trying to understand what comes to a persons mind when they see or hear people talk about being addicted to something. It seems to me that some people use the term to refer to being physiologically dependant whereas others use it only to mean psychologically dependant. I created this thread to confirm or correct my perceptions regarding my this stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I have been in chronic pain since 2000. You learn to deal.
    I’m sorry but I don’t understand your response. The question was in regards to how much pain you can handle and work at the same time. Not whether you are able to handle it or learn to deal with it. I‘m not sure what you mean by “deal with it.” I’ve been in chronic pain since 2004. There were times where the pain was so bad I was unable to even stand up, never mind work. Now the pain isn’t so bad that I can’t walk but I’m a physicist and as such I need to be able to concentrate very deeply. I’m unable to do that with the kind of pain I have when I’m not taking anything for it. I was hoping to get a broad spectrum of ideas and opinions and understand what people in our society want out of their doctors. You see, as it is now I’m much better off than when I started this thread. My entire life has been turned around by one compassionate doctor. I’m now able to have some real hope that I won’t be abandoned by my doctor. So now that I’m more able to move about I’d like to advocate for people with chronic pain so I need to find out what those folks within the chronic pain community want. I think first off I’m going to try to set up a support group in the area. Then try to gather the best information I can and get it approved by a pain specialist and/or clinic. Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Again unclear. A drug addict and a person who deals with chronic pain aren't the same.
    I think that you missed the last part of the sentence where I wrote … if they have a pain level constantly at the level of moderate to severe. The reason I wrote it in that way has to do with how the purpose of the drug is stated. I.e. take a look at how the purpose/use of oxycontin is described

    Oxycontin Information from Drugs.com
    OxyContin is used to treat moderate to severe pain that is expected to last for an extended period of time. OxyContin is used for around-the-clock treatment of pain. It is not to be used on an "as-needed" basis for pain.
    Since it specifies “moderate to severe pain” that’s what I used to ask the question.
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I don't think people who live in severe chronic pain should not have relief, however, I also believe one has to make sure that is the case. TOo many people just want the oxycondin or the Percocet or stronger.
    Yeah, but this thread is about chronic pain. When someone goes on an opiate for chronic pain they stay on it for a very long time. The euphoria is a temporary condition and does not last. Pain medication can be distributed to patients by a visiting nurse or automatically with, say, a morphine pump (something I learned about here! Thanks!) I was told by a top physician and read in a book about prescription drug addiction that people who take opiates for pain don’t get addicted. I heard about how people used to take oxycontin recreationally. They used to wipe off the protective coating and crunch it into a fine powder and snort it. The drug companies found a way to prevent drug addicts from doing that, or at least made it very difficult for them to do it. The ones I have are very hard. It can’t be crunched and powdered as it is now. Every once in a while when I wanted the pain med to kick in faster I’d bite down on it and chew it to let my body absorb it faster. It didn’t make me high but it made my pain relief faster. Now it’s almost biting into a piece of lead. Hard and a bit malable. Not possible to chew now nor possible to powderize it.

    Thank you so much for responding. I greatly appreciate it! If you have any recomendations which can help me set up a support group or have information you think such a group would want please let me know. Please feel free to PM me too. Us chronic pain folks should stick together.
    I have typed a response to this three times and it doesn't seem to post, so PM me. Thanks PhyMan. I do feel your pain....trust me
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    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhyMan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot
    Have you looked into that laser surgery that they've been advertizing for diagnosed back problems? It sounds good but I have to wonder if it really is.
    Yes. It costs tons of money. About $15,000 as I recall.

    Quote Originally Posted by someguy1
    It's not the doctors. It's the DEA, which tracks pain med prescriptions and prosecutes compassionate doctors. If you've been studying this subject then surely you know this.
    Absolutely I know this. Doctors can get sued anytime that they hurt a patient. I would have thought that not helping a patient would be considered as hurting a patient. Boy am I wrong when I think like that! So why is it that doctors are only concerned about hurting a patient in this particular way and not, say, when the doctor doesn't lift a finger to help the patient and they blow their brains out because they can't deal with the pain. And I hear that kind of thing here and there when I look into this. But the dead are very silent and can't hire a lawyer.
    IFrankly...those who have had back surgery, well I'll not have it till they tell me that or wheel chair...(oops they kind of did the wheelchair thing already, but I outwilled them thank goodness I am a ginger.)
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    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
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    Note: About the size limit. All the verbiage you are adding to counts as your posts total length. You don't need to keep posting the same quotes over and over again. It's very easy to delete the verbiage you don't need in each posts. Also, if you get the delete wrong just click the edit and repair it. A bad looking post usually means you have messed up your tags. Do your best never to leave a bad looking post. Remember they can be viewed years from now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Note: About the size limit. All the verbiage you are adding to counts as your posts total length. You don't need to keep posting the same quotes over and over again. It's very easy to delete the verbiage you don't need in each posts. Also, if you get the delete wrong just click the edit and repair it. A bad looking post usually means you have messed up your tags. Do your best never to leave a bad looking post. Remember they can be viewed years from now.
    OH DREK! YEARS!! I shall be mortified for sure!!!
    Bad Robot likes this.
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    If you like to know more interesting facts on health visit LINK DELETED
    Last edited by adelady; January 28th, 2014 at 08:47 AM.
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    If I want to know more facts about my health, I go see my doctor!
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