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Thread: Is it possible to be depressed without knowing it yourself?

  1. #1 Is it possible to be depressed without knowing it yourself? 
    Forum Ph.D. Raziell's Avatar
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    Need some help on this one. Is it possible?


    A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it. - David Stevens
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    Absolutely.

    A lot of people find that depression manifests itself as overwhelming fatigue. Can't get out of bed in the morning. Too tired to prepare meals, have a shower, organise clean clothes. Might even be mixed up with insomnia - can't get to sleep when you want or need to.

    There's also brain-fade. Can't think straight. Memory becomes unreliable.

    People in this condition may not even be really depressed - yet. But they certainly need medical help, usually for some kind of hormone or neurological imbalance. Thyroid, diabetes, adrenal or reproductive hormone systems may individually or in aggregate be contributing to such fatigue.

    But yes. You don't need to be overtly unhappy or tearful to be clinically depressed.


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    From another Australian seeing in the early hours of a new day. Depression? Ranges of Depression? Thousands of well meaning words are available on this Topic. I've survived depression. That dirty mongrol black dog that trys to snarl out of your mouth, but no sound comes. I'm always surviving depression. I try not to feed my black mongol dog. I laugh at the bastard. He has tried to vampire my life but by will alone I have mastered him. Life is for the living, not the dead. Find the guide rope to life again. Go back to the hot jam doughnut stall, ask your local music store to play ''Sweet Sixteen"" and ""She'll be coming ''round the Mountain when she comes"" Tomorrow just you wait and see... Mix with people at the football, ask an Elderly Aunt if she will teach you to make her favourite recipe. Have a go at Kite Flying, come home, get the Boxing gloves out, and punch shit out of the swinging leather... and never give in, never stop still. westwind
    Words words words, were it better I caught your tears, and washed my face in them, and felt their sting. - westwind
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    Fatigue: Check
    Loss of appetite: Check
    Brain fade: Check on all accounts.

    I knew many of these are symptoms of depression but that left me confused. Mostly because I thought you would know it yourself. Didnt feel like it but right now Im not really sure. Thanks for the reply adelady.
    A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it. - David Stevens
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    Yes, anything is possible.

    For starters some people don't even know what the concept 'depressed' is supposed to mean, so how can they know they are depressed?

    The concet of Depression has evolved from the concept of melancholy.

    Personally I don't like or agree with the concept of being depressed. Sad, Sorrowful, Despondent, Fearful, Lathargic, Drained, Miserable, Hurting, mournful are all names for feelings I can distinguish, they are names that give an insight into the cause of the feeling to, unlike 'depression'... So why should I prescribe to a concept which claims that if a certain number of these types of feelings exhibit themselves for a period of time then it is 'depression'?

    The word doesn't even make sense... when your pressed then your busy. So doesn't 'depressed' mean your no longer busy... I find the whole concept somewhat... depressing?

    It seems to me like a BS term that was invented by somebody who should have been doing something useful, and adapted time and again by people who should have been taking care of more pressing issues.

    It's psychobabble as far as i'm concerned. We don't need it. Theres no dogma associated with the feelings I listed above, there is a lot of dogma associated with the concept of drepression, which is another reason we should scrap it... IMO.

    If I were you, I wouldn't try to diagnose somebody as depressed or convince them they are depressed but not realising it.

    Sorry I ccouldn't answer your question in more detail. I do think people can be 'depressed' or suffer melancholy and not be aware or even care whether they fit the phsychologist's criteria.
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    If you have those symptoms I'd strongly recommend seeing a doctor for a simple blood test. The simplest and most common reason for such symptoms is a thyroid disorder - less common but reasonably likely would be another hormone problem like adrenal disorders. (More complex testing for adrenal disorders and less clear-cut treatments but worth it once the simple answers are off the board.)

    And you should see the doctor. Depression might be bearable or tolerable or wait-and-see manageable, but chemical imbalances of this sort aren't. (A friend of mine was, in fact, severely depressed. Thought it was perfectly natural seeing as his quite young wife had died suddenly a few months before so he didn't do anything about it. By the time he eventually, when he was too tired to do his job or look after his kids properly, saw a doctor who diagnosed his problem he was days or hours away from a thyroid coma - not well-known for good outcomes.)

    And if it is 'just' depression? The doctor can organise therapy or medication to cope with that too.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    If you have those symptoms I'd strongly recommend seeing a doctor for a simple blood test. The simplest and most common reason for such symptoms is a thyroid disorder - less common but reasonably likely would be another hormone problem like adrenal disorders. (More complex testing for adrenal disorders and less clear-cut treatments but worth it once the simple answers are off the board.)

    And you should see the doctor. Depression might be bearable or tolerable or wait-and-see manageable, but chemical imbalances of this sort aren't. (A friend of mine was, in fact, severely depressed. Thought it was perfectly natural seeing as his quite young wife had died suddenly a few months before so he didn't do anything about it. By the time he eventually, when he was too tired to do his job or look after his kids properly, saw a doctor who diagnosed his problem he was days or hours away from a thyroid coma - not well-known for good outcomes.)

    And if it is 'just' depression? The doctor can organise therapy or medication to cope with that too.
    Adelady I have seen your posts here as well as in other threads...It strikes me that you know alot about 'stuff'. Are you a Dr? or a phsychologist? is behavour and phychology a specific area of interest to you or more sort of medicine etc? I'm just curious what your into, what background and angle you come from?
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    Nuh. I'm a million years old - well, I'm in my mid60s. I've been reading science magazines and books for 40+ years. My husband is a science and maths teacher. We have a laaaaarge library of science books.

    My 'angle' goes in several directions.

    1. I'm a sickly weakling with several chronic conditions, one of which is progressively degenerative. Most of which took many frustrating years to be diagnosed and to find some form of treatment for.

    2. In my main job of 30 years, I eventually finished up with a few informal counselling roles both as a manager and as a union rep. Meant I came across quite a few people with health problems - either of their own or in their families - that I'm not familiar with from my own and my husband's families.

    3. My husband and I ran a business for several years providing tuition services to students, early years to tertiary, with various learning problems. Keeping up to date with that literature meant that we also kept up-to-date with more general psychology/ psychiatry/ therapy developments. And some friends of ours run a general psychology practice. Another is a mature age medical student.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Nuh. I'm a million years old - well, I'm in my mid60s. I've been reading science magazines and books for 40+ years. My husband is a science and maths teacher. We have a laaaaarge library of science books.

    My 'angle' goes in several directions.

    1. I'm a sickly weakling with several chronic conditions, one of which is progressively degenerative. Most of which took many frustrating years to be diagnosed and to find some form of treatment for.

    2. In my main job of 30 years, I eventually finished up with a few informal counselling roles both as a manager and as a union rep. Meant I came across quite a few people with health problems - either of their own or in their families - that I'm not familiar with from my own and my husband's families.

    3. My husband and I ran a business for several years providing tuition services to students, early years to tertiary, with various learning problems. Keeping up to date with that literature meant that we also kept up-to-date with more general psychology/ psychiatry/ therapy developments. And some friends of ours run a general psychology practice. Another is a mature age medical student.
    Oh ok, you're a liberal war baby who became enlightened during the 60's revolution. You took a keen interest in interllectual activities throughout you're life. You studied medicine becuase as well as being clever you care about people. You worked hard and you're compassionate nature got you into counselling positions and helping people with special needs? and your an ozzy? is that about right? I'm not being presumptious (as you told me most of this already! hehee), i'm just gauging my intuitiveness for the day...

    A pleasure to make your aquiantence mrs
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    Not too bad. "Liberal war baby"? Not quite. Strongly conservative. Raised in an army officer grandfather, farming father background. Church, lots and lots of church, when growing up. My 21st birthday party was an alcohol free event.

    Not the 'enlightened' 60s - that's when I married my first husband. Big mistake. 70s divorce from not-nice man coincided with second-wave feminism. That's when 'enlightenment' dawned. Not really. I just found out that some men were not decent or kind in the way I'd naively expected.

    The rest's not bad.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Not too bad. "Liberal war baby"? Not quite. Strongly conservative. Raised in an army officer grandfather, farming father background. Church, lots and lots of church, when growing up. My 21st birthday party was an alcohol free event.

    Not the 'enlightened' 60s - that's when I married my first husband. Big mistake. 70s divorce from not-nice man coincided with second-wave feminism. That's when 'enlightenment' dawned. Not really. I just found out that some men were not decent or kind in the way I'd naively expected.

    The rest's not bad.
    hahaa... to say not bad is very kind. Thanks. Think I'll avoid the book makers today
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    If you have those symptoms I'd strongly recommend seeing a doctor for a simple blood test. The simplest and most common reason for such symptoms is a thyroid disorder - less common but reasonably likely would be another hormone problem like adrenal disorders. (More complex testing for adrenal disorders and less clear-cut treatments but worth it once the simple answers are off the board.)

    And you should see the doctor. Depression might be bearable or tolerable or wait-and-see manageable, but chemical imbalances of this sort aren't. (A friend of mine was, in fact, severely depressed. Thought it was perfectly natural seeing as his quite young wife had died suddenly a few months before so he didn't do anything about it. By the time he eventually, when he was too tired to do his job or look after his kids properly, saw a doctor who diagnosed his problem he was days or hours away from a thyroid coma - not well-known for good outcomes.)


    And if it is 'just' depression? The doctor can organise therapy or medication to cope with that too.
    Thanks for the tip, Ill ask my doc about getting that checked out
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raziell View Post
    Need some help on this one. Is it possible?
    I would say yes it is possible. I'm thinking a depressed over-eater might be less inclined to think a depression is causing the surge in appetite.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raziell View Post
    Need some help on this one. Is it possible?
    Totally. It is actually hard to come to the conclusion that you yourself have clinical depression. This is in a large part due to depression being publicly the least understood disease. There is a lot of pressure to say that "you are just down" and that "things can't always be so bad" and that "you just need to lighten up and keep your chin up".

    Such statements are damaging if you do indeed suffer from depression. In depression, there are no "good days", and it can be that literally every moment of wakefulness is dreadful. You have to look past what society tells you about depression and consider things carefully.

    If you are wrong and have overreacted, no harm done. However if you are right and get diagnosed and get treated you will soon realise that you have gotten used to living in a deep, dark hole and when you see things change for the better slowly but gradually, you will thank yourself for it
    It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyoko View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Raziell View Post
    Need some help on this one. Is it possible?
    Totally. It is actually hard to come to the conclusion that you yourself have clinical depression. This is in a large part due to depression being publicly the least understood disease. There is a lot of pressure to say that "you are just down" and that "things can't always be so bad" and that "you just need to lighten up and keep your chin up".

    Such statements are damaging if you do indeed suffer from depression. In depression, there are no "good days", and it can be that literally every moment of wakefulness is dreadful. You have to look past what society tells you about depression and consider things carefully.

    If you are wrong and have overreacted, no harm done. However if you are right and get diagnosed and get treated you will soon realise that you have gotten used to living in a deep, dark hole and when you see things change for the better slowly but gradually, you will thank yourself for it
    I wonder if the mere mention of the word 'depression' within earshot of a sufferer, is enough for that person to perhaps investigate the possibility? Until that happens though, the depressed may not realize their predicament.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    the depressed may not realize their predicament.
    The really big problem for people who are truly clinically depressed is that even if they do realise it they can't find the energy to do anything about it.

    That's why
    people with fatigue problems should get themselves seen to before they get to that point.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    I have had severe clinical depression and anxiety disorder for almost a decade now. I have realised that I do not need to be happy in order to live.
    It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
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    I don't really like to talk about it, but I can say that I suffered from severe depression for a while. I didn't realize it either. I was just angry at my gf (now wife) all the time even though she did nothing wrong. She would just come home and I remember rolling my eyes at nothing more than that fact. She would just say hi to me and I'd want to leave. Then, I started having memory problems which completely devastated my school work. I wanted to go jogging with my dogs, but instead I would just watch TV. I would sleep in late. I even got suicidal at one point.

    All this and I had no idea I was depressed. I just thought life was crappy because of everyone/everything around me. It's even hard to talk about it because you get afraid that if you tell people how you feel, they will judge you and pull away and you'll be even more alone. So yes, you can be depressed and not realize it personally.
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    depressed, grumpy, seasonal affective disorder, tired, and having a generally negative attirude
    and the ugliest word in the language haunts your every thought
    "can't"
    ugly putrid disgusting contraction
    throw the not part out
    and whatever it is that you do every day
    stop
    and do something completely different
    feast
    fast
    sit in a corner rocking back and forth and alternately whimpering and crying
    fast and sleep for 3 days
    then feast on carbs and sleep again
    then feast on protien
    and go for a long walk
    out into the woods if one is handy
    but a 10 mile stroll in chicago worked as well
    and
    .............
    If your depression can survive all that,
    You must be one hell of a lot more depressed than I ever have
    (though, I have lost a few winters holed up and feeling sorry for myself)
    bonadventure
    rod
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    You can think of depression as turning the power down on your brain. Some processes don't work as well on low juice. Depression has certain symptoms we refer to as the vegatative symptoms: insomnia, loss of appetite, weight loss. Other symptoms are anhedonia, that is nothing seems to be "fun' anymore, and irritablity and a failure to maintain your routine. The big symptom is suicidality. Notice that I have not even mentioned feeling sad. Often people are not aware on being actively "sad".
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    Well.. Is there a fast test to know if your depresses?

    Something like, give your current mood a grade..

    If it's less then 5, your probably depressed.

    If it's more then 8, your manically depressed.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    Simple test for depression? Not possible.

    You can score 10 on such a scale and not be depressed. Just devastated with grief over the loss of your child. That's not depression, it's normal. It would be abnormal to score less than 6.

    You can score 2 on the basis of your self-perception of your mood. Completely oblivious to the fact that your fatigue, your bad temper, mood swings, insomnia, cynicism, fatalism and stated belief that you're not interested in any activity that anyone suggests to you as well as the pointlessness of your job - all put together add up to a strong indication of clinical depression.
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    Hi adelady. Insomnia maybe OK if you have late night sentry duties to perform, or must stay awake to nurse a sick friend etc, or perhaps drive to Perth without any overnight stops. Not too good when you have had to learn to live with it for over 50 years. For the last 40 odd years my getting some sleep time starts around 0400 HRS daily. And that, I may add, is mostly drugged sleep. Don't even go there adelady. I mean save your texting finger (s) from wondering about the causes of this abnormality. The best brains in Australia have fallen off to sleep trying to get a diagnosis. For me to have gone 88 hours without sleep is nothing uncommon. My brother sleeps badly. We obviously lack seratonian, missed out on sleep genes etc etc. Do we feel sleepy? Bloody oath. Every night while waiting for my tea-- five or three minutes on my chair. And then? perhaps waiting anxiously to see something special on Foxtel, off dozing for four minutes, just long enough to have missed my programme. I'm typing this now, my most wide-a-wake time, nearly 0100HRS. I'll probably Google around until 0400HRS, with tea and biscuits, perhaps some mersyndol, dispirin, codein. I/ve given up the valium, makes me dopey, but not dopey enough to sleep. Main reason for not sleeping. Lower back Spinal Sten.... DDD... LEFT HIP nerve compression callapsed and worn out cartilege. All too impossible to rehabillitate. I'm 78. I've dealt with my problem as best I could. I didn't do too bad. If I was to be pain free now I'd be a bloody nuisance, I'd want to Square dance on Broadway, Ride a bike in the next Olympic Games., and worry my poor long suffering wife to death. ( HE HE HE ). Am I depressed? Probably. But I know no other Life than the one i have, and I'm bloody glad to have that. And for Pity's sake, to use your expression. do not pity me, she'll be right mate. You do not even have to poste to this poste, save the savable first. westwind.
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    Isn't 'depression' a symptom rather than a desease?
    Whose to say we are not all depressed to some degree?
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    Depression can be a symptom of some hormonal imbalances or other conditions which disappears when the underlying imbalance is rectified, eg diabetes, hypothyroidism.

    Depression can also be a 'freestanding' condition of its own, independent of any other metabolic processes.

    All of us are not depressed to some degree. It is absolutely normal to experience negative or depressed moods in various circumstances. Sadness, unhappiness, grief are entirely normal and expected responses to many experiences.

    When depression is described as an illness, it refers to a person experiencing such negative moods in the absence of 'normal' upsetting or distressing events. It can also refer to 'lack of affect' where the person's mood is unaffected by either positive or negative environments.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Depression can be a symptom of some hormonal imbalances or other conditions which disappears when the underlying imbalance is rectified, eg diabetes, hypothyroidism.

    Depression can also be a 'freestanding' condition of its own, independent of any other metabolic processes.

    All of us are not depressed to some degree. It is absolutely normal to experience negative or depressed moods in various circumstances. Sadness, unhappiness, grief are entirely normal and expected responses to many experiences.

    When depression is described as an illness, it refers to a person experiencing such negative moods in the absence of 'normal' upsetting or distressing events. It can also refer to 'lack of affect' where the person's mood is unaffected by either positive or negative environments.
    That's were the confusion comes into it for me. For depression to mean natural sadness and distress, as well as biological 'malfunction' is confusing.

    I would say that if depression is a prolonged period of these negative emotions, then it isn't particularly natural.
    I would say most depression is brought about by mental attitudes or conscious thoughts.

    If a person has a loving family, has love in their heart... will they become depressed? (for a long period). I would say no generally.

    For me adelady... I think the cause is in the mind. Even a lot of hormonal imbalances start in the mind in my estimation. The person may seem unafected by positive or negative environments but they probably have been severely affected by something previously to make all the current environments unimportant.

    That's why i think depression is a symptom of suffering rather than a cause or a freestanding thing independent of biological processes.

    Ofcourse i realise other things can cause hormonal imbalances, not just mental states.
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    I would say most depression is brought about by mental attitudes or conscious thoughts.


    So why can't sufferers simply use similar conscious thoughts to reset or overturn this depressed mood. Of course, cognitive behavioural therapy does help some people to do that, but why doesn't it work for everyone?

    Just as well neither of us is employed as a psychiatrist or a psychologist then, eh?
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    you wouldn't want to know it, if you have a lazy mind and a great love of yourself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    I would say most depression is brought about by mental attitudes or conscious thoughts.


    So why can't sufferers simply use similar conscious thoughts to reset or overturn this depressed mood. Of course, cognitive behavioural therapy does help some people to do that, but why doesn't it work for everyone?

    Just as well neither of us is employed as a psychiatrist or a psychologist then, eh?
    probably is just as well! lol

    I think the fact cognitive behavioural therapy often works is validation of my argument. It wouldn't always work as some people are too conscious of the things/thoughts causing the depression?

    P.S im not sure what cognitive behavioural therapy is... but i geuss it foccusses on the mental side of the problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Depression can be a symptom of some hormonal imbalances or other conditions which disappears when the underlying imbalance is rectified, eg diabetes, hypothyroidism.

    Depression can also be a 'freestanding' condition of its own, independent of any other metabolic processes.

    All of us are not depressed to some degree. It is absolutely normal to experience negative or depressed moods in various circumstances. Sadness, unhappiness, grief are entirely normal and expected responses to many experiences.

    When depression is described as an illness, it refers to a person experiencing such negative moods in the absence of 'normal' upsetting or distressing events. It can also refer to 'lack of affect' where the person's mood is unaffected by either positive or negative environments.
    hhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahah.... no. Okay? No. You sound like you know nothing about it, and this is typical of the educated community. Depression is really the least understood illness.
    It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
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  32. #31  
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    im not sure what cognitive behavioural therapy is... but i geuss it foccusses on the mental side of the problem.
    No. You focused on the cognitive side of the problem.

    The important thing is cognitive behavioural therapy. Simply put, (very, very simply put), this form of therapy teaches you that even if you can't control how you think and what you think just now, you can make decisions about what you do. You can even make decisions about when, where and how you think about, and how you think through, your problems.

    It's not easy nor is it a cakewalk to put into practice. But for people who can stick with it for 6 months or more, it can be very helpful.

    If you combine it with Mindfulness training and with regular daily exercise, just a half hour walk, many people can substantially reduce the dose of their medications or go off them entirely.

    But ....... it. will. not. succeed. for. everyone.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    if i reply,should i get the opportunity to talk to you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    im not sure what cognitive behavioural therapy is... but i geuss it foccusses on the mental side of the problem.
    No. You focused on the cognitive side of the problem.

    The important thing is cognitive behavioural therapy. Simply put, (very, very simply put), this form of therapy teaches you that even if you can't control how you think and what you think just now, you can make decisions about what you do. You can even make decisions about when, where and how you think about, and how you think through, your problems.

    It's not easy nor is it a cakewalk to put into practice. But for people who can stick with it for 6 months or more, it can be very helpful.

    If you combine it with Mindfulness training and with regular daily exercise, just a half hour walk, many people can substantially reduce the dose of their medications or go off them entirely.

    But ....... it. will. not. succeed. for. everyone.
    If what you have described above is not 'focussing on mental treatment/therapy' then i really don't know what is... Sometimes adelady, though you seem nice, it seems like your arguing for the sake of it when really we are in agreement...
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    It is your mind, it is more like to say what can we not trick ourselves into thinking. Take the placebo pill and get better. We lie to ourselves everyday just to get through this crazy world. It is more common than you might think to be depressed and not know it. We lead busy lives where reflection is frowned upon. Look at alcoholism in America, the number one past time to forget about the past. Reflection allows us to dissect the past so we can get through the future, without it we are lost. I believe I know about being depressed as I am starting to go through it. I feel lost and without purpose, but I know that if I separate all the pieces in my life I can feel again what I have lost. I have to push myself hard to do things when I feel this way because if I do not the depression wins and I will never give up. So now I say to you never give up.
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