Notices
Results 1 to 93 of 93
Like Tree13Likes
  • 2 Post By Harold14370
  • 1 Post By Ascended
  • 1 Post By DaBOB
  • 1 Post By DaBOB
  • 1 Post By DaBOB
  • 1 Post By Sealeaf
  • 1 Post By sculptor
  • 1 Post By DaBOB
  • 1 Post By DaBOB
  • 1 Post By chad
  • 1 Post By Harold14370
  • 1 Post By DaBOB

Thread: Calorie less food

  1. #1 Calorie less food 
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,380
    The UK is officially the fattest country in Europe, we are now at a stage where nearly a third of
    the population is obese. Surely it is now time that fast food and ready meal companies actively
    started producing no calorie foods.

    We've now got people in the UK that are over 50 stone!!!


    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,822
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    The UK is officially the fattest country in Europe, we are now at a stage where nearly a third of
    the population is obese. Surely it is now time that fast food and ready meal companies actively
    started producing no calorie foods.

    We've now got people in the UK that are over 50 stone!!!
    It's called "vegetables."


    westwind and Leukocytes like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    The Enchanter westwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,079
    For chrisgorlitz. Australian stats show a similar trend. Quantities ( abundance of good quality food ), is available to nearly everyone. Speaking for myself I have Threaded and posted my consumption activities on Science Forum. There are many reasons why humans consume too many calories then they activily need. You are concerned as we all are. But to single out what you believe to be one of the main factors in obesity is a simplication of the real problem. The real problem is complex, otherwise remedies and life style information would have surfaced by now. Nobody wants to be obese. But they will consume until they see themselves becoming obese. And keep on consuming. Self esteem, motivation, is , of course, lacking. Reason? So many beautiful people are thrust in our faces everywhere we look. This is how we want you to look seems to be the message. Probably six people in one hundred fit the images portrayed. When the average person can see and understand that this side of hell and heaven they will never be able to qualify to be one of the beautiful people currently sought after, most throw caution to the wind and indulge themselves in other distractions, including eating. westwind.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,380
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    The UK is officially the fattest country in Europe, we are now at a stage where nearly a third of
    the population is obese. Surely it is now time that fast food and ready meal companies actively
    started producing no calorie foods.

    We've now got people in the UK that are over 50 stone!!!
    It's called "vegetables."
    Alas we have vegetables in every supermarket, and yet too often people choose ready meals and fast food. It seems to be that only in recent decades that this obesity epidemic has really exploded, something that may in a very small part be attributed to a change in lifestyle but mainly due to the abundance and cost of fast food and ready meals.
    You just have to look at where fast food came from, and the fact that all to often it is far cheaper than healthier alternatives, America is now officially that fattest nation on earth and IMHO it is no accident.

    Unfortunately the popularity of american culture has helped to spread a subculture of fast food around the world quickly followed by obesity outbreaks. What need is for the big american fast food and ready meal companies to take the lead in helping to address the obesity epidemic. What I propose is looking into actually producing fast foods that do not contain calories or burn more calories through digestion than the food contains.

    The idea that everyone should eat fruit and vegetables is sound and sensible advice, however this has been the message for years and it simply isn't working. You only have to turn on the television to a see another documentry about someone having to be carried out of their house because they to fat to get hospital by themselves. It's quite depressing really when you think that some of these people have developed compulsive eating disorders and might not even live to see 50.

    It must now surely be well past time that governments take the issue of obesity more seriously and start to take responsibility for forcing the the fast food and ready meal companies to actively start finding ways to stop people ending up obese.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,380
    Quote Originally Posted by westwind View Post
    For chrisgorlitz. Australian stats show a similar trend. Quantities ( abundance of good quality food ), is available to nearly everyone. Speaking for myself I have Threaded and posted my consumption activities on Science Forum. There are many reasons why humans consume too many calories then they activily need. You are concerned as we all are. But to single out what you believe to be one of the main factors in obesity is a simplication of the real problem. The real problem is complex, otherwise remedies and life style information would have surfaced by now. Nobody wants to be obese. But they will consume until they see themselves becoming obese. And keep on consuming. Self esteem, motivation, is , of course, lacking. Reason? So many beautiful people are thrust in our faces everywhere we look. This is how we want you to look seems to be the message. Probably six people in one hundred fit the images portrayed. When the average person can see and understand that this side of hell and heaven they will never be able to qualify to be one of the beautiful people currently sought after, most throw caution to the wind and indulge themselves in other distractions, including eating. westwind.
    You make a very valid point about the link between eating and self esteem, this has become a very real problem in the modern world. Whilst this can be tackled and treated on a one to one basis as yet finding a stratergy to tackle it on a wider scale is proving challenging.

    This is why I'm suggesting that the approach should be made from the food it's self. Whilst an abundance of food will always present oportunites to over eat it does not necessarily follow that it will lead to obesity. This seems to have much more to do with an abundance of the 'wrong type of food'.
    It's here where I feel that the real problem is and it's this that needs to be addressed.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Survival of the fittest.

    But really, fitness is the key. Even on a terrible diet a person can stay relatively healthy through fitness. Diet is of course important. A more fit person will develop more sensitivity to what they eat, noticing the difference in how they function.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,380
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Survival of the fittest.

    But really, fitness is the key. Even on a terrible diet a person can stay relatively healthy through fitness. Diet is of course important. A more fit person will develop more sensitivity to what they eat, noticing the difference in how they function.
    Useful point, but unfortunately though trying to get big sections of society to do exercise is even harder than trying to persuade them to adopt a healthier diet.
    Last edited by Ascended; June 30th, 2012 at 01:35 PM. Reason: typo
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    9
    In my opinion, America cannot be blamed for spreading it's American consuming-culture for the whole world. Each has to take responsiblity for his own deeds. Of course, there's the logic connection. But there are various intervals in this equation. I'm just trying to say that a whole nation won't become the fattest one in the world, just because another one affected it in such a way.

    As for the reasons of obesity, there are a lot of them. But the main one in our century is simply over-eating. I've read somewhere that food could act like a drug to the brain, that the same part of the brain that is responsible for addictions is also responsible for food addiction. So basically, food can be addictive. I think that's a primary problem, because we all know how addictions can be endless, like a circle. Just look at junkies, are obese people any different? Ponder over the reasons of becoming morbidly obese - can "pressure" really produce a 50 stone man? In my opinion, it's something bigger than a state of choice. And if the problem is addiction, we're in trouble.
    People also get fat out of stress and pressure, dast we forget. And in the 21st century, pressure creeps behind every corner. Just think about life nowadays. The avarege Joe that works as a Manager in some workplace, has to handle a lot of pressure that derives from work. While in the last centuries, these patterns of pressure never occured, you could be a lumberjack your whole life.

    Promoting a healthier diet has been a theme for years. And saying that it hasn't helped, isn't true. It has helped in a lot of form, people DO consume more vegetables, but decreasing the obesity won't be done by only busting one's diet with vegetables.

    And as for the fast food - I think there's something about the whole "Industrial" business that is just plain dirty. I mean, sure, everyone loves the happy meal in McDonalds. But have a look at that burger. Or that "Fresh" chopped salad. How fresh is it? The things that industrial food goes through is ridiculously disgusting. Injecting hormones and other un-friendly things that are being consumed by everyone eating that. Industrial food, and fast food, need to vanish. There's no place for it, even for a healthy "skinny" person. That's just unhealthy.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,380
    Quote Originally Posted by Leukocytes View Post
    In my opinion, America cannot be blamed for spreading it's American consuming-culture for the whole world. Each has to take responsiblity for his own deeds. Of course, there's the logic connection. But there are various intervals in this equation. I'm just trying to say that a whole nation won't become the fattest one in the world, just because another one affected it in such a way.
    I'm not interested in playing the blame game I merely pointed out what and how it had happened, I was also trying to show the power that american culture has so that people can understand from where the problem needs to tackled, obesity was never a problem before processed fast food and ready meals. American companies now need to use the power they have in the global fast food market to reduce the problem and stem this obesity crisis, not just because they are helping other countries but also because they are helping americans. When american school children are suffering from diabetes just because of fast food and are predicted to die much earlier than their parents it's time to take a stand and do something about it.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,380
    Quote Originally Posted by Leukocytes View Post
    The avarege Joe that works as a Manager in some workplace, has to handle a lot of pressure that derives from work. While in the last centuries, these patterns of pressure never occured, you could be a lumberjack your whole life.
    You try finding 'The average Joe' a job when they're 5'6'' and 29st.


    Promoting a healthier diet has been a theme for years. And saying that it hasn't helped, isn't true. It has helped in a lot of form, people DO consume more vegetables, but decreasing the obesity won't be done by only busting one's diet with vegetables.

    I wasn't intending to say it hasn't helped, what I intending to say is that there is still an obesity epidemic despite of the messages and campaigns for a healthier diet.


    [/QUOTE]
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    9
    I wasn't trying to blame you or anything of that sort, seems as though as you think that's how it is.
    Just merely pointing out some circles that might cause obesity.
    I don't think that global fast food producers would ever leave their business interests aside to deal with a healthier society, just because the loss would be grand.
    The change, has to come from the individual.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,380
    Quote Originally Posted by Leukocytes View Post
    I wasn't trying to blame you or anything of that sort
    Hey no probs,
    Quote Originally Posted by Leukocytes View Post
    I don't think that global fast food producers would ever leave their business interests aside to deal with a healthier society, just because the loss would be grand.
    The change, has to come from the individual.
    I agree with the point about fast food producers not acting off their own backs, but I feel that government should recognise the problem and health effect and force them to take action, I don't think the average person can make much difference to such global businesses.
    Leukocytes likes this.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Leukocytes View Post
    I wasn't trying to blame you or anything of that sort
    Hey no probs,
    Quote Originally Posted by Leukocytes View Post
    I don't think that global fast food producers would ever leave their business interests aside to deal with a healthier society, just because the loss would be grand.
    The change, has to come from the individual.
    I agree with the point about fast food producers not acting off their own backs, but I feel that government should recognise the problem and health effect and force them to take action, I don't think the average person can make much difference to such global businesses.

    I meant that the individual should just stop consuming it...
    Relying on the goverments... Haha, that's tough. There's a lot going on in the world, but that's really off-topic now. I just hope you and I live to see a better, obese-free future.
    This has been a pleasant discussion, thank you.
    First judge yourself. Then proceed to judge the other.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Of course it's addiction! Putting the label on it doesn't make it any more special though.

    Watching TV is an addiction. Surfing the web. Reading magazines. Having a drink, a smoke, a puff. Downloading pirated software. Riddlyn medication. Sex. Even fitness. Shopping or spending. Any habit that has grown into a comfort can be addictive! This is nothing new.

    In China (and likely elsewhere) in the past you could find the places where you go to watch a film and listen to music. When you're there you purchase special drugs that make it crazy. You can stay there for days and weeks. They have showers and food and beds. Most of these places have been taken down but now on every city street you five these 网吧 wangba which most people like to translate as internet bar, but they're more than that. Young people go to these places to lose themselves, to forget their lives. They stay there for days or weeks. The chairs are cushy and junk food is sold. Their addiction is gaming or in some cases farming (they are getting paid to "farm gold" in the games which is sold to other players, mostly in the west).

    Anything can be addictive and any addiction can be overcome, provided one has the right intention!

    Human bodies crave sustenance, namely sugar. Besides water the body's primary need is sugar to function. No doubt that in an age where there is a surplus in sugar and marketing people are going to develop food comforts. (As a side note I agree it's not America's fault at all. It's just a modern age that comes with new problems and while some countries are learning to deal with it others have not realized the problems yet.)

    I personally believe it isn't that hard to motivate people into fitness. Many people are just in such a warped mind-state that it seems hard. People's mind's need a change, not their bodies. Media constantly bombards people with stupid tools and routines and great new research studies, but it's all just distraction! The human body likes to be fit and does not need to be taught how. There is no need for research telling us that we should eat a little of this before we workout and a little of that after, then only workout at this time of day, with this special equipment and watch TV while we're doing it to make it bearable. NO! WRONG! Who is going to workout with this bombardment of useless information. Fitness is hard, and that's why it feels good. People are so comfortable with their sofas. They treat fitness like some scurrying cockroach that they're afraid to go near, when it's actually harmless and clean, and only because they aren't accustomed to it. Fitness ain't that big of a deal, it's just how people think about it that's the problem.

    Take one hour from your regular sleeping schedule everyday. Loosen the joints, stretch the tendons and muscles, develop coordination and strength, take a minute long cold shower and you'll be sleeping better and feeling like that junk food you ate was the wrong choice. You'll know the difference between eating for sustenance and indulging. You will sleep better in less time. You will have less body pains in your occupation.

    Indulging makes your body work harder and you become more thirsty and tired and you feel like sitting on your couch with a bear. No wonder! Then you need more sleep to finish digesting and filtering the alcohol. The food, alcohol, and television entertain the body and mind. The mind's creative centers deteriorate so that thinking, creating, and doing seem like difficult tasks and make you rather stay in bed even longer. The body begins to deteriorate as well, as it decides it has not purpose. You become a vegetable, drooling, not even capable of thoughtful reception of ideas, but satisfied because you know nothing else.

    Fitness needs time though. Just as a person may spend thirty or forty years sitting on their sofa entranced by the TV to develop the way they have so will they need time to develop something new, to change. You can't workout for a month and give up and go buy weight loss pills and pain killers. Fitness needs patience and persistence. It needs to be a way of life, like brushing your teeth, or having breakfast.
    Leukocytes likes this.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Leukocytes View Post
    I wasn't trying to blame you or anything of that sort
    Hey no probs,
    Quote Originally Posted by Leukocytes View Post
    I don't think that global fast food producers would ever leave their business interests aside to deal with a healthier society, just because the loss would be grand.
    The change, has to come from the individual.
    I agree with the point about fast food producers not acting off their own backs, but I feel that government should recognise the problem and health effect and force them to take action, I don't think the average person can make much difference to such global businesses.
    The modern world is built on money. If it sells it will sell. Governments want money/power just as much as any company does. It's no surprise that they are not bothered. Again, it's a way of thinking. If governments and company owners were not interested in wealth and power than they would naturally not exist, because that is their purpose, and humans would naturally live more naturally.
    Leukocytes likes this.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,225
    Relying on the goverments...
    Well, we already rely on governments to regulate safety and nutritional standards for drugs and foods.

    Remember the melamine in baby food scandal in China. Or that the US Army still has specifications saying that you're not allowed to include sawdust in flour and how much rat faeces can and can't be in ration cookies. A Side of Rat Feces? (A History Lesson) « Global Warming: Man or Myth?

    And if we find that an ingredient in generally available modern foods is harmful, there's no good reason why whatever-it-is should not also be regulated along with all the other requirements. Eg, how much/little butter fat qualifies a product as 'cream', or that all milk should be pasteurised and all fresh meat must be refrigerated at a certain temperature, or that supermarkets and restaurants must meet minimum standards for pest control.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Of course it's addiction! Putting the label on it doesn't make it any more special though.

    Watching TV is an addiction. Surfing the web. Reading magazines. Having a drink, a smoke, a puff. Downloading pirated software. Riddlyn medication. Sex. Even fitness. Shopping or spending. Any habit that has grown into a comfort can be addictive! This is nothing new.

    In China (and likely elsewhere) in the past you could find the places where you go to watch a film and listen to music. When you're there you purchase special drugs that make it crazy. You can stay there for days and weeks. They have showers and food and beds. Most of these places have been taken down but now on every city street you five these 网吧 wangba which most people like to translate as internet bar, but they're more than that. Young people go to these places to lose themselves, to forget their lives. They stay there for days or weeks. The chairs are cushy and junk food is sold. Their addiction is gaming or in some cases farming (they are getting paid to "farm gold" in the games which is sold to other players, mostly in the west).

    Anything can be addictive and any addiction can be overcome, provided one has the right intention!

    Human bodies crave sustenance, namely sugar. Besides water the body's primary need is sugar to function. No doubt that in an age where there is a surplus in sugar and marketing people are going to develop food comforts. (As a side note I agree it's not America's fault at all. It's just a modern age that comes with new problems and while some countries are learning to deal with it others have not realized the problems yet.)

    I personally believe it isn't that hard to motivate people into fitness. Many people are just in such a warped mind-state that it seems hard. People's mind's need a change, not their bodies. Media constantly bombards people with stupid tools and routines and great new research studies, but it's all just distraction! The human body likes to be fit and does not need to be taught how. There is no need for research telling us that we should eat a little of this before we workout and a little of that after, then only workout at this time of day, with this special equipment and watch TV while we're doing it to make it bearable. NO! WRONG! Who is going to workout with this bombardment of useless information. Fitness is hard, and that's why it feels good. People are so comfortable with their sofas. They treat fitness like some scurrying cockroach that they're afraid to go near, when it's actually harmless and clean, and only because they aren't accustomed to it. Fitness ain't that big of a deal, it's just how people think about it that's the problem.

    Take one hour from your regular sleeping schedule everyday. Loosen the joints, stretch the tendons and muscles, develop coordination and strength, take a minute long cold shower and you'll be sleeping better and feeling like that junk food you ate was the wrong choice. You'll know the difference between eating for sustenance and indulging. You will sleep better in less time. You will have less body pains in your occupation.

    Indulging makes your body work harder and you become more thirsty and tired and you feel like sitting on your couch with a bear. No wonder! Then you need more sleep to finish digesting and filtering the alcohol. The food, alcohol, and television entertain the body and mind. The mind's creative centers deteriorate so that thinking, creating, and doing seem like difficult tasks and make you rather stay in bed even longer. The body begins to deteriorate as well, as it decides it has not purpose. You become a vegetable, drooling, not even capable of thoughtful reception of ideas, but satisfied because you know nothing else.

    Fitness needs time though. Just as a person may spend thirty or forty years sitting on their sofa entranced by the TV to develop the way they have so will they need time to develop something new, to change. You can't workout for a month and give up and go buy weight loss pills and pain killers. Fitness needs patience and persistence. It needs to be a way of life, like brushing your teeth, or having breakfast.

    Couldn't agree more.
    But the thing with the food addiction - I was trying to say that it's more addictive than the rather obvious stuff you've pointed out. Just like the addiction to Heroine could be so severe, some people don't get out alive from it. (Mostly just because the crave for another dose, and the fact that you'll do anything for it). Food can be like that. And obesity stands to support that. Just think about obesity in it's purest form. That's something that was never before... Not in this scale. I mean, of course, fat people were always there, and it's nothing new. But the statistics are now giving us a new sense, something is going on. It's not just 1/1000, the whole population is inducing in developing obesity.

    Fitness is indeed the "cure", though, again, not the only one. The process for a healthier society has to come from various aspects, though fitness, I presume, has the largest portion of those aspects. I run 8 miles, 4~5 times a week. I used to be a couch potato, but then I started running. This wasn't easy, not because it was physically challenging, it was rather... Un-enjoyable. I hated running, it felt like a waste of time, and to be honest, my cardio abilities weren't too grand. But giving up wasn't an option. As I proceeded to jog weekly, and then daily, I could really feel how my whole life changed. Bob is right. Before I used to workout, I ate anything that I wanted, and I never gave it a second thought. But after going into the world of working out, you start to question the things you put in. You consider stuff better. It even gives you more strength to "refuse" to certain foods that you might have enjoyed earlier.
    I think that fitness is the greatest stimulation ever, to start living on a healthier diet. Aside from that, it's a great motivator... I can even give certain people a purpose in life, or act as therapy after a long, stressful day.

    I do side with you strongly on the way of bombarding people with fitness. All you need for a run, is a pair of legs. (Of course you need more than that but I'm simplifying stuff.)
    And just the act of getting out of the comfortable zone, and starting something that's physically challenging, is already good.
    First judge yourself. Then proceed to judge the other.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,380
    Personally, I would like to see morbidly obese people sent to a special fat camp where they are starved back down to a normal size. Not because of crueltry but to help these people to have a normal life, which would be pretty hard if they have to be take walls down just to get out of their house.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    9
    I don't think that taking them to a "fat camp" would get them better, it could even get them worse, mentally.
    Remember that show, "The Biggest Loser"? A lot of contestants there lose an astonishing amount of weight, and then gain everything back and even more.
    The change comes from the mind.
    But I do agree with you on the matter that an extreme step has to be taken.
    First judge yourself. Then proceed to judge the other.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Quote Originally Posted by Leukocytes View Post
    I don't think that taking them to a "fat camp" would get them better, it could even get them worse, mentally.
    Remember that show, "The Biggest Loser"? A lot of contestants there lose an astonishing amount of weight, and then gain everything back and even more.
    The change comes from the mind.
    But I do agree with you on the matter that an extreme step has to be taken.
    Exactly!

    I've seen a number of people join the marines and navy where they are supposedly "disciplined" and when their tour is over the come home, hit the game addiction and gain weight. People need to learn their own discipline or the effort is wasted. I think a teacher can help, but it's a fine line. i teach martial arts and it's difficult when you want to tell people what to do and motivate them, but it's better to encourage "good" behaviour and let them learn learn on their own (usually), from my experience. Some people do need a lot of encouragement though!!

    Sorry if I came on strong before, but I have to admit it is a bit bothersome to me how simple health really is, and how so many are blind to this. I really think it's mostly due to our modern society, our great civilization which we've fooled ourselves into thinking is a good thing. All we've done is built a dirty cave of concrete, where we sustain ourselves with synthetic material, and are so detached from the natural world, and mind, that we don't even know how to move our bodies. Then we happily offer our work to people who pretend to act in our interest by protecting us, regulating us, and stealing our vary souls, when we ought to learn how to protect ourselves, develop ourselves, create ourselves, and free ourselves from the fears that others distil in us, as well as the cravings of our own minds. But now I'm just preaching an impossible thing.
    Leukocytes likes this.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    By the way, I just noticed the title of this thread again. Here's a little something I might say about diet.

    Stick to real foods. Processed sugars should be avoided and you'll probably be fine so long as your supplementing with fitness. Rice, potato, and other starchy vegetables are okay because the body can process them properly. Fruits can be left out if you're going for weight loss, as these are more like insta-burn sugars, and you want to start accessing energy stores. Taking a break from meats is probably not a bad idea too. You can get proteins from veggies, especially beans (learn some Indian cuisine!), Drop the dairy. Eat a good assortment of veggies to make sure you're getting the nutrients you need for fitness, namely electrolights (that is vitamins that support nerve function, electrochemically, and muscle relaxation, without them you go rigor mortis, like a dead man). No sports drinks! (tea is okay if you need some energy, but it can drain electro-lights if you're not accustomed to drinking it.)

    Train in the morning before eating, and then the only energy your body will have available is stored. It will be harder, and require more motivation.

    Don't be surprised with body pains, but be careful and aware. A little discomfort is completely normal for someone out of the habit. If the muscles are cramping, remember to stay hydrated and eat your veggies, massage and go slow. Take breaks of a day or two to let the body heal and build (I promote daily training, but someone out of routine should be more careful).
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #22  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    985
    We could increase the mass of the table ware we use so that people have to work harder to eat. A 2 kilo beer stein, a half kilo fork paired with a half kilo knife.
    westwind likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #23  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,225
    In fact, there's a great lesson from aged care facilities. Elderly people often have poor appetites and they'll look at a perfectly adequate plate of food and claim they 'can't eat all that'. Solution? Use a bigger plate, serve the same portion. They eat it all up. Appetite and satiation are as much related to visual stimulus as any other issue.

    If, and it's a big if, you need to reduce the quantity of food ingested, buy smaller plates. A smaller plate with the same or a lesser portion of food will look like a bigger meal - and satisfy the appetite.

    The big if? Many overweight people are in fact undernourished in terms of essential nutrients. One of my relatives has just done a seminar on this. Instead of reducing the amount of unsuitable/fast/calorie-rich food, a new approach is to ignore the problems with the food you desire. You want a burger? Instead of feeling guilty about it, look at what is provided and add to it. I'm not thrilled about the way the desirable additions are described, but basically it amounts to 1) add salads (referred to as 'live' foods) 2) add omega 3 rich foods, generally known as eat more nuts or fish 3) add protein if it's not already there. So if you're addicted to macca's, go there and get your fix, but acknowledge that the only desirable component is the meat/protein and add fruit, veg, nuts. If you want a serve of potato wedges with dipping sauce, you have to add more because of the lack of protein, omega 3, salad.

    Looks promising, mainly because it promotes a better diet by building on existing preferences rather than excluding them. Apparently if you stick to it for just a few weeks, you acquire a craving for salads, which most people who currently eat poorly think is some kind of health crank fantasy. My suspicion is that it provides nutrients that were previously missing and the body adjusts to trying to maintain the level. I know I occasionally get a craving for spinach which strikes some people as odd, and spinach isn't the only source of its major nutrients, but that's the signal I get when it's needed.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  25. #24  
    The Enchanter westwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,079
    For Sealeaf. This is brilliant. Thinking outside the Square. Or, in this case, outside the round. To this type of problem, ( obesity ), this is certainly the way to go. I would go further with your permission. A 2kilo knife, a 15 kilo beer stein, and food to be served on 3 inch plates. Consider this to be an amendment to your proposal. westwind.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  26. #25  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    I think it's all ridiculous. Look at the natural diet of any country, that is, the diet which existed before cars, coffee and fast food. South America: beans, rice, vegetables, maze. Japan: rice, bean products, regular and pickled vegetables, noodles, fish. China (south): millet, rice, beans, vegetables (meat consumption is rising with the "quality of life"). India: Beans, breads, vegetables. America (modern): Trans fats, modified food starch, processed sugars, synthetic food additives, all packed into things trying to resemble food. That's just a sample.

    It's entirely possible to live on fried vegetables, rice, and soy milk, or rice, vegetables, and fish, or beans and rice. Why is this so difficult for people?

    I can only speak for Americans here. They are so comfortable and unwilling to think outside their little box that they complain when fast food is unhealthy (as though it shouldn't be), and the lactose or gluten intolerant think people should make special products just for them, and vegetarians eat fakin' bacon. Go live on next to nothing in some other country and you'll be happy to get some warm spiced beans and it will be far tastier than your gluten free biscuit or your fat free big mac, and it will actually be healthy, easy to make, and not promote power monger corporations in their search for wealth. You can do this in your own home. Not that hard.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  27. #26  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Quote Originally Posted by westwind View Post
    For Sealeaf. This is brilliant. Thinking outside the Square. Or, in this case, outside the round. To this type of problem, ( obesity ), this is certainly the way to go. I would go further with your permission. A 2kilo knife, a 15 kilo beer stein, and food to be served on 3 inch plates. Consider this to be an amendment to your proposal. westwind.
    Yeah, and I'm going to sell the weight loss freezer. Just stand in it naked an hour a day to raise you metabolism and burn fat. If you buy now we'll install a TV and a tray to put your popcorn and soda on so that you get the most value out of your new weight loss freezer!!
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  28. #27  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,225
    Look at the natural diet of any country

    One thing I remember from something I read (or saw?) on people with the sort of diets you're alluding to. They're nutrient rich, calorie poor. Basically the reverse of what modern Western diets are.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  29. #28  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,632
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Look at the natural diet of any country

    One thing I remember from something I read (or saw?) on people with the sort of diets you're alluding to. They're nutrient rich, calorie poor. Basically the reverse of what modern Western diets are.
    I really don't get this topic, i mean, are you trying to contradict the beginning of every sentence with the end of it.

    Nutrients = Calories + Vitamins + Other substances. So nutrient rich and calorie poor is not possible, as vitamins can barely be called a nutrient. I know the point of it, but 99% to 98%, is still not poor in calories.

    Today we coop with 3 problems, on the scale of feeding people.
    - Distance.
    - Amount of people.
    - Time.

    - For distance we have solved this by massing huge amounts of food together, which have been processed, this has scaled it towards the time point.
    - We have solved the time, for adding conservatives to the food.
    - We have solved the amount of people problem, with a continuous agricultural expansion, draining this from nutrients, and then transporting them to the countries that can pay the most for them.

    Yes this is disastorous. But it gets worse. To be able to transport the food, it has to be processed, and indeed the conservatives make the quality of our foods decline. We want so much meat, that we simply can not supply it at an amount that is not overcropping other countries. These processed foods contains far more fats, and transfats (to make it tasty again) that it overshadows all.

    The solution would be, creating other means to deal with the distance of travelling the goods, the amount of people, or the time it takes from field to mouth.

    Anyone?
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
    Reply With Quote  
     

  30. #29  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,380
    Well, imagine being able to walk into a fast food place and having the option of ordering food that won't put on any weight what so ever, you can eat whatever you want when you want and how much you want. Now if fast food places did this it would generate them even more trade, and would stop people getting obese from living off fast food.

    I really can't see why it would be that hard for them to do it.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  31. #30  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,632
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Well, imagine being able to walk into a fast food place and having the option of ordering food that won't put on any weight what so ever, you can eat whatever you want when you want and how much you want. Now if fast food places did this it would generate them even more trade, and would stop people getting obese from living off fast food.

    I really can't see why it would be that hard for them to do it.
    It's not the food that makes people fat, it's people that make people fat.

    Consuming food does not make someone fat, consuming excessive amounts does.

    You could tell fat people they can't have fastfood. Make it illegal to anyone who looks like an obese. But i don't think that will solve anything, as the "fatties" will pay other people to bring out food. Then you are actually criminalising it, so it's not an option.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
    Reply With Quote  
     

  32. #31  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,380
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Well, imagine being able to walk into a fast food place and having the option of ordering food that won't put on any weight what so ever, you can eat whatever you want when you want and how much you want. Now if fast food places did this it would generate them even more trade, and would stop people getting obese from living off fast food.

    I really can't see why it would be that hard for them to do it.
    It's not the food that makes people fat, it's people that make people fat.

    Consuming food does not make someone fat, consuming excessive amounts does.

    You could tell fat people they can't have fastfood. Make it illegal to anyone who looks like an obese. But i don't think that will solve anything, as the "fatties" will pay other people to bring out food. Then you are actually criminalising it, so it's not an option.
    I agree with everything you've said, but somethings got to be done and someone has got to take the responsibility if the people themselves have no self control. So I say put the problem back on the doorstep of the companies proffiting from. Let it be their responsibility to produce no calorie foods. The way I see it is high calorie fast food is becoming harmful to health so the companies producing it should be forced to come up with an alternative if they wish to be allowed to continue their business.

    I don't think you should ever force people to do things, but lets give them a choice that's not endangering their health and wellbeing.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  33. #32  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,822
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Well, imagine being able to walk into a fast food place and having the option of ordering food that won't put on any weight what so ever, you can eat whatever you want when you want and how much you want. Now if fast food places did this it would generate them even more trade, and would stop people getting obese from living off fast food.

    I really can't see why it would be that hard for them to do it.
    I believe you can order a salad at most fast food places. That's not what most people order. You'd still be hungry if that's all you ate.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  34. #33  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,380
    I want them to make a burger and chips with the same number or less calories as a salad. And as for hunger if you eat enough salad your not hungry anymore, it'll still fill up your stomach like anything else.

    I mean why can't they come up with something that's just like normal food but designed to stop your body from absorbing the calories, would that really be such a miraculous achievement in food technology, just to that simple thing.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  35. #34  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,822
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    I want them to make a burger and chips with the same number or less calories as a salad. And as for hunger if you eat enough salad your not hungry anymore, it'll still fill up your stomach like anything else.

    I mean why can't they come up with something that's just like normal food but designed to stop your body from absorbing the calories, would that really be such a miraculous achievement in food technology, just to that simple thing.
    Do you think it's that easy? Whoever invents this kind of food will make a lot of money, and they won't need the government to regulate the fast food industry to do it. Look at how many people fall for scams like acai berries.
    You have diet pop already. Does that do any good? No, people find other ways to get their calories.
    A while ago there was some kind of indigestible fat used to make potato chips. Olestra, it was called. Unfortunately the undigested grease had a tendency to leak out of one's digestive tract in a messy fashion. It didn't help slim anyone down either.
    Eating Fake Fat Makes you Real Fat, Olestra Study Finds - ABC News
    Reply With Quote  
     

  36. #35  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,380
    Fair point, I really didn't realise that is was that hard to do.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  37. #36  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    This is no one's responsibility but individuals. Does a con artist tell you when he's cheating you? NO! Cook some rice for christ's sake. It takes ten minutes. Cook some beans, it takes twenty. Corn, five minutes. If you're work schedule is too busy than take fewer hours, and save money by making your own food!

    Those diets I was referring to are not low in "calories" (why do people use this word? How many calories does your car consume?). It's more like the types of food they are eating turn into sugars that are easier to use properly by the body. The people that become overweight on these diets are probably eating lots of fatty meats. Despite what you may think, even bread can be made without processed sugar and without yeast. I sometimes finish a bowl of rice in one meal, but I've seen tons of skinny Chinese men and women consume three or four bowls of rice per meal, regularly. Of course, now all the western health fads are hitting China so everyone's concerned with weight loss and are now drinking aged Pu'erh tea, which is known for it's digestive effects, aka: weight loss. The Tibetans became addicted to it long ago because they had diets heavy in Yak meat and dairy. Now every day Chinese people think they're losing weight when drinking their pu'erh tea mixed with sweet (sugar loaded) lemon aid; yet, their diets were perfect beforehand (how many people have seen an overweight Chinese person, seriously?). This is how media and greed destroys people.

    If you're seriously worried about your own or others health than start taking charge. Keep it simple. Just sit down and ask yourself: what do I need to survive? What do I need to survive healthily? It really is incredibly simple.

    There is no ultimate cure, pain killer, or saviour, besides death. Either learn to live or don't. Lastly, most of the time when people are unhealthy it's an expression of something deeper, psychological or emotional. Examine yourself? Many people use ailments simply as an identifier, something they can talk about, and get help with. If you really want to be healthy than ask yourself where the ailments are coming from? The body isn't just some disconnected robot that we use to walk from point A to point B. It's intimately connected to everything we do, think, and feel, and repeated actions will leave long lasting impressions. A person's posture, movement, and health is a reflection of their thoughts and emotions.

    Look at celebrities, and what they do to their bodies, and how this may reflect on their insecurities. You can often identify veteran martial artist by the calmness and coordination in their movement, their bodies may be powerful, but their muscles are soft and relaxed. Stressed out people tend to have more muscle tone and, though society may call them sexy, their movements are stiff and inefficient (I swear I've seen people with permanent calf cramps, like their lower leg is just a stiff rod).
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  38. #37  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,380
    Fast food companies spend billions a year on advertising with alot of it directed at children and they make a fortune in profits, do you really think they shouldn't have some responsibility it helping to try and stop diabetes and obesity?
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  39. #38  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,822
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Fast food companies spend billions a year on advertising with alot of it directed at children and they make a fortune in profits, do you really think they shouldn't have some responsibility it helping to try and stop diabetes and obesity?
    No, I don't think so. They were engaged in a legal enterprise. They paid their taxes. They paid their employees, and their employees paid taxes. They provided the product to satisfy their customers.

    I think you are trying to pass an ex post facto law.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  40. #39  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,325
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Survival of the fittest.

    But really, fitness is the key. Even on a terrible diet a person can stay relatively healthy through fitness. Diet is of course important. A more fit person will develop more sensitivity to what they eat, noticing the difference in how they function.
    Only for some things. I the military I saw a lot soldiers on the Jim Fixx diet--they exercised 5-10 hours a week but ate like crap-- a lot of them don't make it much past 50.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  41. #40  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,380
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Fast food companies spend billions a year on advertising with alot of it directed at children and they make a fortune in profits, do you really think they shouldn't have some responsibility it helping to try and stop diabetes and obesity?
    No, I don't think so. They were engaged in a legal enterprise. They paid their taxes. They paid their employees, and their employees paid taxes. They provided the product to satisfy their customers.

    I think you are trying to pass an ex post facto law.

    Ok that's your opinion, but I have a different one because I equate the fast food industry with the tobacco industry. Both are making products that are adversely affecting people's lives and premeturly shortening them. The tobacco industry is not allowed to advertise to children, in fact it's not allowed to advertise at all now here in the UK, has to put health warnings on it's product and still gets sued when people get ill or die from it's product. The tobacco companies also pay their employess and taxes and provide a product to satisfy their customers.

    Now the fast food companies scpecifically target children with their advertising, can advertise as much as they want, don't have to put health warnings on their products and yet they are not held accountable for negative health effects of their products in fact to me it seems they don't seem to take responsibility at all. So I think it's about time they did take some responsibility.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  42. #41  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,325
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Survival of the fittest.

    But really, fitness is the key. Even on a terrible diet a person can stay relatively healthy through fitness. Diet is of course important. A more fit person will develop more sensitivity to what they eat, noticing the difference in how they function.
    Only for some things. I the military I saw a lot soldiers on the Jim Fixx diet--they exercised 5-10 hours a week but ate like crap-- a lot of them don't make it much past 50.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  43. #42  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    4,211
    what's a jim fixx diet?

    a few years ago, i volunteered to be the water operator for our subdivisions community well and distribution system. This involved taking classes and passing an epa test. During the breaks between the classes which were held in a room at the end of a mall, i would sit at a table and watch people walk by while eating my snack--------I was amazed at just how really fat everyone looked to me, and thought "wow, Iowans are really obese--------later, i realized that my snack table was located within the food court---not a random sampling at all. I love fast food---and find a mcdougle wopper a real treat
    once or twice a year.
    when i had a hernia surgery, and the doc said that the hole in my abdominal wall was plugged by a glob of fat, i decided to lose some pounds--and pulled down a set of smaller plates from the pantry---I still ate everything I wanted, just smaller portions, and dropped the pounds over a 3 year period. Now, I'm back to the weight i was at 40 years ago....... and i still deep fry fish, chicken, venison, potatoes, etc... with room left over for ice-cream and my favorite, Irish whiskey(all in smaller portions)
    but then again, I like to build things and stay active from my desires----my latest is a 4 tiered 4 chambered greenhouse
    from felling trees to milling the raw lumber to shaping and fitting the components-------and this summer, working on laying an oak floor in the middle section(from a tree I felled, cured, milled, etc) it's 100 degrees in there(venting is an ongoing experiment) and i lost another 3-5 lbs- while drinking over a gallon of liquid every day-------

    but some people have such efficient metabolisms that eating 1/2 my calories would make thm gain weight---to each his/her own, it's a personal thing.
    During one of my university events, i was so poor, that i ate notebook paper to stave off the hunger---lots of roughage and zero calories.
    Ascended likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  44. #43  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,325
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    what's a jim fixx diet?
    Basically keep eating like most Americans. Fixx got very popular during the 80's by popularizing running as fitness--the problem is while he was running marathons and talking somewhat about smokiing and diet--the only major change he did was exercise, exercise, exercise. He lost a lot of weight, wrote a best seller and was a popular morning show celebrity until someone found him dead of a massive heart attack while on one of his runs. Diet is beyond a doubt the most important aspect of long and healthy life, well ahead of but augmented by regular exercise.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  45. #44  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Survival of the fittest.

    But really, fitness is the key. Even on a terrible diet a person can stay relatively healthy through fitness. Diet is of course important. A more fit person will develop more sensitivity to what they eat, noticing the difference in how they function.
    Only for some things. I the military I saw a lot soldiers on the Jim Fixx diet--they exercised 5-10 hours a week but ate like crap-- a lot of them don't make it much past 50.
    Yes, of course. I have a friend probably on that list. He got pretty thin in the marines, but not because he was eating less. He gained it all back afterwards. A person can stay relatively fit on fitness alone, but not in a long term sense. Over eating will of course require more resources to digest, which will work the body harder, harm sleep, slow the mind, and over the long term have even worse effects, and that's without going into the processed stuff. However, say you live in China, where most the food is covered in pesticides, and the water is full of heavy metals, and the air is full of carbon. All you have left to rely on for cleaning out the system is fitness. It helps the body move, process, filter, and excrete things. Tea is also great, but again, the pesticides. A lot of western countries aren't so bad here, and a person can live relatively well on a good diet alone, but once you go to the crowded east, or Mexico and some other places, you got to move (or wear a gas mask everywhere, buy filtered water or maybe spring water, and find the rare organic farm).

    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor
    During one of my university events, i was so poor, that i ate notebook paper to stave off the hunger.
    Awesome. I was on a tight budget one year as well, so I just started to bring less food eat with me. I kept passing out in the library from hunger, believe it or not. Once I realized I began budgeting for more food. Now I eat too much, but it's tough when you can get three plates of awesome veggies for about $5 here in China! Actually would probably be eating just right if it wasn't all covered in oil.
    westwind likes this.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  46. #45  
    The Enchanter westwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,079
    For DaBoB. Is that right? Tea and pesticides I mean. And three lots of vegetables for $5.00!!! But is it still true that locally obtained nutrients are used in the Fields for fertiliser? I can't bring myself to an accurate description of the locally obtained fertiliser, is it false modesty? Am I being too paronoid? It would be OK if I wasn't informed, because I love Chinese Food. To tell the truth, I love anybodies food. westwind.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  47. #46  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Yes!! Tea most definitely has pesticides. Buds are better because they usually spray the pesticide after picking the buds (buds are often more expensive: white teas and high quality greens, blacks and pu'erh). Experiments have demonstrated that steeping the leaves does not strip all of the pesticides, so you're mostly safe if you don't eat the leaves. Japan and Taiwan I'm sure do far better. I've met one tea maker who's pu'erh is certified organic (and I think most of the pu'erh is, since those trees have been surviving pests for hundreds of years).

    To be clear, I meant three dishes of veggies, at a restaurant. $5.00 would probably buy you enough raw veggies to eat at home for a month (if part of that is in beans and rice).

    Not sure what you mean by locally obtained nutrients. If you mean human waste used as fertilizer than yes, that is absolutely correct! Most food and beverage is best cleaned and cooked. (I know some people who clean their fruit with bleach. I'd rather just not eat it unless I can peal it.)

    Doing a project now on Chinese food. Nothing scientific. Local chef is teaching me some tricks of the trade, Sichuan style. I'll send ya a link when I finish up and put things up on my site.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  48. #47  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    286
    cant you just eat brown rice and geta life? stop go to restaurants
    Reply With Quote  
     

  49. #48  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,325
    Quote Originally Posted by westwind View Post
    For DaBoB. Is that right? Tea and pesticides I mean. And three lots of vegetables for $5.00!!! But is it still true that locally obtained nutrients are used in the Fields for fertiliser? I can't bring myself to an accurate description of the locally obtained fertiliser, is it false modesty? Am I being too paronoid? It would be OK if I wasn't informed, because I love Chinese Food. To tell the truth, I love anybodies food. westwind.
    Food must be cheap there. It's hard to fill a single plate of veg. with $5 American dollars.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  50. #49  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Dry Fried Spinach: 6 yuan; Bitter Melon and scrambled eggs: 10 yuan; bean sprouts and dried tofu: 10 yuan; total: 26 yuan + 2 (rice for two) = 28 yuan / ~6 = $4.50 about.
    westwind likes this.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  51. #50  
    The Enchanter westwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,079
    How's the accommodation there DaBoB? I mean near your eating houses. And do you have to leave between courses, or can you just snack while waiting? westwind.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  52. #51  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    The places I go are just holes in the wall, literally. One chef and one waitress. It's all one meal, comes out soon after ordering. Some places are bigger, but the best ones are small. Everyone is very friendly.

    Accommodation? You mean where I live?

    I think we're losing track of the topic...
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  53. #52  
    The Enchanter westwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,079
    Dear DaBoB. You know old westwind would not be asking where you live, just his hard to understand sense of the ridiculous. No what I was suggesting was that if the accommodation was as cheap and as good as the food, then I'm on my way up to share in the action. Never as funny when you put it into everyday english. Now, about your sense of humour. We are going to have a basic course on Australian Humour. Lets try this '' Why did the chicken cross the road? ''. Answer '' T o get to the other side. '' The reason the chicken wanted to get to the other side was because of all the chinese eating houses on this side. westwind.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  54. #53  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    A Scottish nutritionist has teamed up with an entrepreneur to produce what they claim are the first nutritionally balanced pizzas.
    The pizzas are said to contain 30% of an adult's guideline daily amount of vitamins and minerals.
    They are also said to have a third of the recommended amount of calories, protein and carbohydrate.

    BBC News - Scottish team develops 'nutritional? pizzas
    Reply With Quote  
     

  55. #54  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Quote Originally Posted by westwind View Post
    Dear DaBoB. You know old westwind would not be asking where you live, just his hard to understand sense of the ridiculous. No what I was suggesting was that if the accommodation was as cheap and as good as the food, then I'm on my way up to share in the action. Never as funny when you put it into everyday english. Now, about your sense of humour. We are going to have a basic course on Australian Humour. Lets try this '' Why did the chicken cross the road? ''. Answer '' T o get to the other side. '' The reason the chicken wanted to get to the other side was because of all the chinese eating houses on this side. westwind.
    You're in Australia? I thought all the Ausies had bee here already. Yeah, big place all to myself for about $200 a month! Bedroom, living room/tea room, kung fu room, bathroom, kitchen, loud street outside.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    A Scottish nutritionist has teamed up with an entrepreneur to produce what they claim are the first nutritionally balanced pizzas.
    The pizzas are said to contain 30% of an adult's guideline daily amount of vitamins and minerals.
    They are also said to have a third of the recommended amount of calories, protein and carbohydrate.
    Well I'll start eating three a day then. Bet I could make one more "nutritionally balanced," but I don't really care to.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  56. #55  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    [Well I'll start eating three a day then. Bet I could make one more "nutritionally balanced," but I don't really care to.
    How would you make it more nutrionally balanced? The only approach I can see that would work would be to determine the precise balance of ingredients for the individual. That would not be practical, so what are you suggesting?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  57. #56  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Well, I'm kind of being sarcastic. It would be something ridiculous like grinding up a bunch of multi vitamins and sprinkling them all over the top, which in reality wouldn't be that good, but if you told people it was proven healthy or something like that it would sell.

    I just think all this speciality food is funny. I mean, most food is or was at some point healthy. It's the portions, synthetics, sales, and lack of fitness that make it unhealthy. I mean really, my dad used to cook pizza all the time. It's mostly bread, tomatoes and spices. How bad can that be? Well, when sales, as opposed to health, drive the production people want special "mouth feels" and longer shelf lives, so they pump the pizza full of fats, oils, synthetic starches, cheese, etc, etc. Then you could just not eat it and be healthy. Like I said before about the gluten and lactose intolerant. Just don't eat those foods, it's not so bad.

    But, whatever. Hurray for their special heart healthy pizza. I'm sure if it was in my neighbourhood I would chose that before others if I was buying pizza. All I mean to say is that unhealthy pizza isn't the cause of unhealthy people; which I guess is obvious.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  58. #57  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,380
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    A Scottish nutritionist has teamed up with an entrepreneur to produce what they claim are the first nutritionally balanced pizzas.
    The pizzas are said to contain 30% of an adult's guideline daily amount of vitamins and minerals.
    They are also said to have a third of the recommended amount of calories, protein and carbohydrate.

    BBC News - Scottish team develops 'nutritional? pizzas

    Hey that sounds great until some chipshop owner decides to batter them.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  59. #58  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    856
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Well, imagine being able to walk into a fast food place and having the option of ordering food that won't put on any weight what so ever, you can eat whatever you want when you want and how much you want. Now if fast food places did this it would generate them even more trade, and would stop people getting obese from living off fast food.

    I really can't see why it would be that hard for them to do it.
    It's not the food that makes people fat, it's people that make people fat.

    Consuming food does not make someone fat, consuming excessive amounts does.

    You could tell fat people they can't have fastfood. Make it illegal to anyone who looks like an obese. But i don't think that will solve anything, as the "fatties" will pay other people to bring out food. Then you are actually criminalising it, so it's not an option.
    I agree with everything you've said, but somethings got to be done and someone has got to take the responsibility if the people themselves have no self control. So I say put the problem back on the doorstep of the companies proffiting from. Let it be their responsibility to produce no calorie foods. The way I see it is high calorie fast food is becoming harmful to health so the companies producing it should be forced to come up with an alternative if they wish to be allowed to continue their business.

    I don't think you should ever force people to do things, but lets give them a choice that's not endangering their health and wellbeing.


    I agree with your attitude 1001%.


    But I blame our governments, more than the fast food places. Here in America most fast food businesses, are presently taking the most dangerous kinds of fats, out of their foods. Yes it is public pressure that causing them to do this, but still they are making their food more healthy.

    And in America we (literally) have McDonald's and pizza hut businesses, (inside) of high school and middle school campuses. And Americas government lets them do this.



    Our governments, only (really) care about the health, of rich peoples stock portfolios.

    If our governments cared about, all of its citizens health, as much as they do rich peoples stock portfolios, (we would all be much healthier, and we would all live much longer.)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  60. #59  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    856
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Personally, I would like to see morbidly obese people sent to a special fat camp where they are starved back down to a normal size. Not because of crueltry but to help these people to have a normal life, which would be pretty hard if they have to be take walls down just to get out of their house.

    I also have had similar thoughts.

    But I remember how you said, "somethings got to be done and someone has got to take the responsibility if the people themselves have no self control."



    Our governments could create programs, that help unhealthy people.

    And for the people, that would not go to these programs. Our governments could at least deliver healthy meals to their houses.



    Like you said, people have no self control. But I believe, if our governments delivered (first class) healthy meals, to its most unhealthy citizens, they would eat it.

    You give them some grilled fish, and (lightly buttered) steamed veggies, with some homemade sweet tea or lemonade, many are gonna eat it. And in the process, they will eat a lot (less) sweet rolls and ice cream.
    Ascended likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  61. #60  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,632
    2 problems there..

    1; First class meals.
    2; Free meals.

    They won't pay for any meal, let alone first class meals..
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
    Reply With Quote  
     

  62. #61  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Another problem. It's not the government's job to do these things. If people are so helpless that they need the government to deliver them healthy meals, than I think we ought to go to totalitarianism, or maybe communism; that is governments that rule over people who don't think for themselves!

    I do agree that fast food should not be in schools. Schools should provide their own meals and teach kids how to make their own food. What good is a person who can list all 52 states but can't cook a bowl of rice. Honestly now?
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  63. #62  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    856
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    2 problems there..

    1; First class meals.
    2; Free meals.

    They won't pay for any meal, let alone first class meals..



    You are very correct. Americas government, will not even feed hungry American children.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  64. #63  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    856
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Another problem. It's not the government's job to do these things. If people are so helpless that they need the government to deliver them healthy meals, than I think we ought to go to totalitarianism, or maybe communism; that is governments that rule over people who don't think for themselves!

    I do agree that fast food should not be in schools. Schools should provide their own meals and teach kids how to make their own food. What good is a person who can list all 52 states but can't cook a bowl of rice. Honestly now?



    What is the governments job?

    Our government is our leaders, what is a leaders job?


    What is governments job?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  65. #64  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,822
    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    Like you said, people have no self control. But I believe, if our governments delivered (first class) healthy meals, to its most unhealthy citizens, they would eat it.
    Here is the problem, Chad. A democracy is a government of the people, by the people and for the people. People who have no self control. Therefore the government by definition, has no self control. Do you agree?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  66. #65  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    856
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    Like you said, people have no self control. But I believe, if our governments delivered (first class) healthy meals, to its most unhealthy citizens, they would eat it.
    Here is the problem, Chad. A democracy is a government of the people, by the people and for the people. People who have no self control. Therefore the government by definition, has no self control. Do you agree?


    No and yes.

    I don't think we are are saying, (every one) has no self control. Most people (do) have the control, not to weigh 400 lbs. We all have our own strengths and weaknesses. And some people need help to not weigh 400 lbs.



    A government can have self control, it just depends on who is staffing the government.

    Look at the government of Switzerland, they have control, and they have it all.





    And I don't think we live in a democracy Harold. In (my) heart a democracy means, every one has equal rights, and every one has the right, and chance to be in government.

    And it is that way in Switzerland, because if (you) lived in Switzerland, you would have a chance to be the president.
    But in America (you), don't have the right or chance to be the president. Because in America you need $750 million dollars to be able to run for president.

    Could you raise the $750 million dollars to run for president?



    Some governments have control, because honest and straightforward people like (you) run the government.

    Can a government have control? I think some do.


    Chad.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  67. #66  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,632
    Interesting approach. Though i doubt everything goes down spotless in switzerland, i think the fee it takes for someone to become president, makes the person actually able to climb up that ladder, be a totalistic @sshole, to start with. Like the southpark episode. Voting is just for show, it all ends up with, voting for a turd, or a douche, as only they have the suckup power to climb over the crap society throws at them, and still keep climbing.

    I think thrump would be an excellent president in that regard, he's a douche, he is full of himself, he's selfish, and he likes to be right, even if he's not.

    The only way to solve this, would be a decreased lifespan for the president, if every 4 years (at end of every term) the president would be shot. Only then the richeous could climb, as the turds who love themselves so much, would not dare become president. The ones who truely want to help us would risk this..

    So... who has time and a gun?

    (disclaimer: What i wrote was sarcasm, irony, and humorous intended. I mean in no way harm to any president, trump or anybody else. Anything that can or may happen will not be my fault, as i didn't mean this to happen this way. I will also withdraw my opinion at any time if someone feels offended by this.)
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
    Reply With Quote  
     

  68. #67  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    Like you said, people have no self control. But I believe, if our governments delivered (first class) healthy meals, to its most unhealthy citizens, they would eat it.
    Here is the problem, Chad. A democracy is a government of the people, by the people and for the people. People who have no self control. Therefore the government by definition, has no self control. Do you agree?
    Well if that's a democracy than what is America?

    And if you are insinuating that Americans have no self control, as a generalization, I will have to agree. Freedom means making the decision to bite the bullet, not pretend their is no bullet.

    chad, here's something I've learned about the world. Good people don't govern. When real leaders are needed they rise. In the mean time crappy people who value money and power seek government work and probably think they're doing good for the world, in their own delusional fantasies. (there are good people in the government but they are overshadowed and suppressed by the rest, and often leave worse off than when they started)

    It is entirely possible for America to turn in on itself at any time, and at that time it is not the president, politicians, or those brave (brainwashed) soldiers who will save "America." It is the individuals in the country that rise and take control.

    Sure, there are plenty of good people in the world with plenty of good ideas, but these people would only be made corrupt by taking office. They're better off influencing their friends and family from the ground up and creating a better population or world, and not worrying too much about the government.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  69. #68  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Interesting approach. Though i doubt everything goes down spotless in switzerland, i think the fee it takes for someone to become president, makes the person actually able to climb up that ladder, be a totalistic @sshole, to start with. Like the southpark episode. Voting is just for show, it all ends up with, voting for a turd, or a douche, as only they have the suckup power to climb over the crap society throws at them, and still keep climbing.

    I think thrump would be an excellent president in that regard, he's a douche, he is full of himself, he's selfish, and he likes to be right, even if he's not.

    The only way to solve this, would be a decreased lifespan for the president, if every 4 years (at end of every term) the president would be shot. Only then the richeous could climb, as the turds who love themselves so much, would not dare become president. The ones who truely want to help us would risk this..

    So... who has time and a gun?

    (disclaimer: What i wrote was sarcasm, irony, and humorous intended. I mean in no way harm to any president, trump or anybody else. Anything that can or may happen will not be my fault, as i didn't mean this to happen this way. I will also withdraw my opinion at any time if someone feels offended by this.)
    May all workers of the world unite!!!! haha, once saw a bunch of old Chinese posters like that! You're gonna get owned by some dudes in black, mann! (I wonder from which country though)
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  70. #69  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Sure, there are plenty of good people in the world with plenty of good ideas, .
    Guy Fawkes
    Reply With Quote  
     

  71. #70  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    4,211
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Sure, there are plenty of good people in the world with plenty of good ideas, .
    Guy Fawkes
    I've always wondered:
    Do people celebrate Guy Fawkes day because he failed? Or because he tried?
    Or, both?
    or, do they just like the fireworks?
    Last edited by sculptor; July 5th, 2012 at 10:30 AM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  72. #71  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Sure, there are plenty of good people in the world with plenty of good ideas, .
    Guy Fawkes
    Hong Xiuquan
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  73. #72  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Sure, there are plenty of good people in the world with plenty of good ideas, .
    Guy Fawkes
    I've always wondered:
    Do people celebrate Guy Fawkes day because he failed? Or because he tried?
    Or, both?
    or, do they just like the fireworks?
    The option highlighted in red, for the most part, today. Originally celebrated because he failed.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  74. #73  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Oh, I thought we were just naming random "good" people. ha.... Didn't realize this was a holiday.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  75. #74  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Sure, there are plenty of good people in the world with plenty of good ideas, .
    Guy Fawkes
    I've always wondered:
    Do people celebrate Guy Fawkes day because he failed? Or because he tried?
    Or, both?
    or, do they just like the fireworks?
    The option highlighted in red, for the most part, today. Originally celebrated because he failed.
    Kind of like July Forth.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  76. #75  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    I was suggesting that blowing up seats of government might be a good idea. This was a metaphorical and tongue in cheek suggestion, rather than a call for militant anarchy. Just as Guy Fawkes has become a symbol whose meaning is almost forgotten, we might wish, symbollically to destroy our present forms of government since, in many cases, they are performing badly(arguably). In short: let's rethink the whole way we govern ourselves.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  77. #76  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,822
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Well if that's a democracy than what is America?
    We are supposed to be a constitutional republic. That is only true if lawmakers are constrained by the Constitution, though. Which we apparently aren't.
    And if you are insinuating that Americans have no self control, as a generalization, I will have to agree. Freedom means making the decision to bite the bullet, not pretend their is no bullet.
    Judging by the size of the national debt, Americans clearly do not have self control. Most European countries are no better off, though.
    DaBOB likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  78. #77  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    I was suggesting that blowing up seats of government might be a good idea. This was a metaphorical and tongue in cheek suggestion, rather than a call for militant anarchy. Just as Guy Fawkes has become a symbol whose meaning is almost forgotten, we might wish, symbollically to destroy our present forms of government since, in many cases, they are performing badly(arguably). In short: let's rethink the whole way we govern ourselves.
    Wow, I was in a completely different world! I think I'm posting too much these days.

    But yeah, that sounds fun to me. Should we start a new thread maybe? Or will this new form of government be geared towards the development of "calorie less food?"
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  79. #78  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,380
    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Sure, there are plenty of good people in the world with plenty of good ideas, .
    Guy Fawkes
    I've always wondered:
    Do people celebrate Guy Fawkes day because he failed? Or because he tried?
    Or, both?
    or, do they just like the fireworks?
    Always remember the 5th of November
    Gun powder, Treason and Plot

    We learn this ryme from being little.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  80. #79  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    4,211
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    ...blowing up seats of government... .
    Shades of the underpants bomber, who set his crotch on fire for idiology or idiocy. gee, that must'a hurt
    Reply With Quote  
     

  81. #80  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,325
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Survival of the fittest.

    But really, fitness is the key. Even on a terrible diet a person can stay relatively healthy through fitness. Diet is of course important. A more fit person will develop more sensitivity to what they eat, noticing the difference in how they function.
    Actually that's not true. They can only appear to be fit to the non-medical eye. Diet is by a considerable margin more important.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  82. #81  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    856
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Interesting approach. Though i doubt everything goes down spotless in switzerland, i think the fee it takes for someone to become president, makes the person actually able to climb up that ladder, be a totalistic @sshole, to start with. Like the southpark episode. Voting is just for show, it all ends up with, voting for a turd, or a douche, as only they have the suckup power to climb over the crap society throws at them, and still keep climbing.

    I think thrump would be an excellent president in that regard, he's a douche, he is full of himself, he's selfish, and he likes to be right, even if he's not.

    The only way to solve this, would be a decreased lifespan for the president, if every 4 years (at end of every term) the president would be shot. Only then the richeous could climb, as the turds who love themselves so much, would not dare become president. The ones who truely want to help us would risk this..

    So... who has time and a gun?

    (disclaimer: What i wrote was sarcasm, irony, and humorous intended. I mean in no way harm to any president, trump or anybody else. Anything that can or may happen will not be my fault, as i didn't mean this to happen this way. I will also withdraw my opinion at any time if someone feels offended by this.)



    I agree with everything you said about our leaders. But things are 1000x worse in America, compared to most European countries.

    In countries like yours, anyone can run for office (because the fee is small.) So your government is staffed with people, who have some kind of connection with regular people.


    But in America it costs around ($750 million dollars to run for president). And since regular American people, can not raise that $750 million dollars, regular people have no voice in Americas government.


    Americas government has been taken over by corporate America. And lawyers from corporations like GE, (write) all of our laws.


    And because of all that money, there is huge corruption, and huge favors given out. Favors like, Americas super rich having lower tax rates, than regular Americans.


    Here in America, people who make $100,000 dollars a year, pay 30%+ of their income in taxes.
    While American CEO's who make 100,000,000 dollars a year, pay 7%- 17% of their income in taxes.


    We have gone mad.



    I was in the Netherlands (Amsterdam), a few years back, and I really enjoyed it. But I sure as hell hope, that your government (never) becomes like Americas government.



    Have a nice day/night,
    Chad.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  83. #82  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,822
    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    But things are 1000x worse in America, compared to most European countries.
    Please move to Europe. What's stopping you?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  84. #83  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    856
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    Like you said, people have no self control. But I believe, if our governments delivered (first class) healthy meals, to its most unhealthy citizens, they would eat it.
    Here is the problem, Chad. A democracy is a government of the people, by the people and for the people. People who have no self control. Therefore the government by definition, has no self control. Do you agree?
    Well if that's a democracy than what is America?

    And if you are insinuating that Americans have no self control, as a generalization, I will have to agree. Freedom means making the decision to bite the bullet, not pretend their is no bullet.

    chad, here's something I've learned about the world. Good people don't govern. When real leaders are needed they rise. In the mean time crappy people who value money and power seek government work and probably think they're doing good for the world, in their own delusional fantasies. (there are good people in the government but they are overshadowed and suppressed by the rest, and often leave worse off than when they started)

    It is entirely possible for America to turn in on itself at any time, and at that time it is not the president, politicians, or those brave (brainwashed) soldiers who will save "America." It is the individuals in the country that rise and take control.

    Sure, there are plenty of good people in the world with plenty of good ideas, but these people would only be made corrupt by taking office. They're better off influencing their friends and family from the ground up and creating a better population or world, and not worrying too much about the government.



    When I first started talking to you here, I thought "I will never agree with this guy." But I was wrong.


    Have a nice day/night,
    Chad.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  85. #84  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    856
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    But things are 1000x worse in America, compared to most European countries.
    Please move to Europe. What's stopping you?



    Why should I have to move?


    You want small government, so why don't you move to Somalia? (they have a small government)

    You don't mind the recent American takeover, by (one small rich group) and them controlling all of America, so why don't you move to a country, with a similar leadership structure?



    There are already countries on Earth, with small governments, and (a small group) leading everyone, why don't you move there??
    Last edited by chad; July 5th, 2012 at 11:22 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  86. #85  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB View Post
    Survival of the fittest.

    But really, fitness is the key. Even on a terrible diet a person can stay relatively healthy through fitness. Diet is of course important. A more fit person will develop more sensitivity to what they eat, noticing the difference in how they function.
    Actually that's not true. They can only appear to be fit to the non-medical eye. Diet is by a considerable margin more important.
    Already replied to this. I agree under certain circumstances, but the world ain't what it used to be.

    Here's my previous reply:
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB
    Yes, of course. I have a friend probably on that list. He got pretty thin in the marines, but not because he was eating less. He gained it all back afterwards. A person can stay relatively fit on fitness alone, but not in a long term sense. Over eating will of course require more resources to digest, which will work the body harder, harm sleep, slow the mind, and over the long term have even worse effects, and that's without going into the processed stuff.

    However, say you live in China, where most the food is covered in pesticides, and the water is full of heavy metals, and the air is full of carbon. All you have left to rely on for cleaning out the system is fitness. It helps the body move, process, filter, and excrete things. Tea is also great, but again, the pesticides. A lot of western countries aren't so bad here, and a person can live relatively well on a good diet alone, but once you go to the crowded east, or Mexico and some other places, you got to move (or wear a gas mask everywhere, buy filtered water or maybe spring water, and find the rare organic farm).

    Inversely, it is my experience/understanding that most of these polluted countries have good diets, which changes the focus. Instead people are dying from cigarettes, pollution, accidents, etc. Fitness can help all of these things. I'm not talking about just being healthy enough to go to work and back, I'm talking about being fit as a human should be. Fitness can play a huge factor in health, huge! I'm just waiting for all the prideful young kids in China to start desk jobs and eating their gourmet McDonalds or KFC food, and then watch how fast China grows.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  87. #86  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    856
    I think that other things, besides diet and exercise are causing these health changes.

    I think that culture is also playing a big part, in unhealthy people.


    For example,

    The poor health of Americas kids. Part of the problem is, they watch TV, and play video games for 5 hours a day.

    When I was a young kid, we did not have video games. So we were forced to ride bikes, explore, and play sports.



    And technology has done the same things to adults. Like I see happening, with our garbage collection crews. A few years ago they had to pick up each garbage can by hand, and place it in the truck. But today all the garbage cans have wheels, and a machine empties the can into the truck. And I believe technology has done the same thing, in other job fields as well.


    And I believe our modern food production systems, provide us with more food, and cheaper food.

    In recent years American food portions per meal have increased, and our modern food production systems may play a part in this.




    Perhaps our cultures have (not) had the time, to change behaviors, to match our new food systems and behaviors.
    Last edited by chad; July 5th, 2012 at 11:51 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  88. #87  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,674
    Yeah, the industrial revolution was pretty much the end of intelligent life as we knew it.

    But, again, you can blame problems on culture, or you can blame the culture on the problems. People can make choices, and those choices will create the perceived culture. People can chose to be healthy, or they can chose that they have no choice in the matter, and then all they can do is pray.
    westwind likes this.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
    Reply With Quote  
     

  89. #88  
    The Enchanter westwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,079
    Yes DaBoB. Choose healthy. Choose raising your own eggs. Bottling your own fruit. Making your own chutneys and tomato relish. Choose fresh drinking water. Choose to visit organic berry farms. Attend Farmers Markets, ask about their meat products. Drink goats milk. You can all do these things. If you want to be lazy, if you don't want to try, if you are frightened that you will make a mess of it, if you can't be bothered, then so be it. Don't set an example. be obese. Then see how easy it is to put your socks on( Australian speak here ), to stop your old fellow dribbling, to run to the letter box, to tap dance. I'm obese, and I am puffing now, tapping out this text. Lets see how you get on. westwind.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  90. #89  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,822
    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    But things are 1000x worse in America, compared to most European countries.
    Please move to Europe. What's stopping you?


    Why should I have to move?


    You want small government, so why don't you move to Somalia? (they have a small government)
    You are the one constantly bitching and complaining, which is why I suggest you move.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  91. #90  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,380
    Hey europes's not perfect I would rather live in California than many european countries.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  92. #91  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    4,211
    y'all know what a smoothy is?
    I head out back, grab some greens (cabbage, spinach, etc), beans, a squash or cucumber, coupla tomatoes, maybe a pepper, jam it all into a blender with 3 raw eggs, some olive oil, a little milk or yogurt, a cup of yesterday's coffee(antioxident), some berries or a peach or apple(or any fruit available) then blend till smooth(ergo the name), and drink breakfast and lunch... afternoon, rye bread toast and butter, with a shared cooked family meal in the early evening, then whiskey and a smoke.......
    down to the weight i was when in the army---
    (and this is so easy that i think i'm being lazy)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  93. #92  
    Forum Professor Zwolver's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,632
    Quote Originally Posted by westwind View Post
    Yes DaBoB. Choose healthy. Choose raising your own eggs. Bottling your own fruit. Making your own chutneys and tomato relish. Choose fresh drinking water. Choose to visit organic berry farms. Attend Farmers Markets, ask about their meat products. Drink goats milk. You can all do these things. If you want to be lazy, if you don't want to try, if you are frightened that you will make a mess of it, if you can't be bothered, then so be it. Don't set an example. be obese. Then see how easy it is to put your socks on( Australian speak here ), to stop your old fellow dribbling, to run to the letter box, to tap dance. I'm obese, and I am puffing now, tapping out this text. Lets see how you get on. westwind.
    You don't get healthy simply by doing all this. You can be healthy without all that. Just pick whatever you want, but don't exaggerate. If you go to McDonalds every day, you will get fat. (unless you work there) But you don't have to only drink smoothies, and eat organic to be healthy. Just moderate..
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
    Reply With Quote  
     

  94. #93  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    4,211
    Smoothies are mostly just a summer thing for when the garden supplies most of what i need, and i really do not want to cook over a hot stove.
    In the autumn and winter, I cook. I make a really excellent spinach/cheese crepe, am adept at fish or venison steaks and roasts and stews, souffles, brioche, breads and cakes, and deep fried almost anything. Once or twice a year, i treat myself to Mcdonalds, or something from another fast food chain, and my wife occasionally brings home Tai or Chinese or Vietnamese food, and i did some woodworking for a really excellent Italian chef, so i have 7 course meals at his restaurant(part of what I charged him for the work was "10 meals").
    And. I really love butter, on my toast and potatoes, to fry stuff in, on my steaks or in my baked goods .
    I choose my spices for their anti inflamitory and antioxidant properties as much as for their flavor.

    It ain't what you eat. It's how much you eat in balance with your activity level.
    (oh yeah, and everything in moderation)
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. food webs and food chain
    By crackstein in forum Biology
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: September 9th, 2010, 03:16 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: May 29th, 2010, 02:50 PM
  3. Calorie-Restricted Diet
    By Obviously in forum Health & Medicine
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: January 2nd, 2010, 11:00 AM
  4. Just one food?
    By Tammantha in forum Health & Medicine
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: March 31st, 2009, 10:48 AM
  5. calorie loss
    By AlexP in forum Health & Medicine
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: November 21st, 2007, 08:01 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •