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Thread: The Weight Management Thread: Post Your Weight and Eating/Exercizing Habits

  1. #1 The Weight Management Thread: Post Your Weight and Eating/Exercizing Habits 
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    I thought this would be a good place to share stories/motivate people. My workouts look like this:

    Monday/ Wednesday/Friday: Jog 30 minutes

    Everyday: choose a random bodypart and lift weights (with a focus on either arms/chest/legs/back/shoulders)

    I work arms twice a week.

    I work chest once or twice a week.

    I work legs once a week.

    Diet:

    I eat perhaps 60-90 g of protein a day

    I try to eat 1600-1800 cals/day

    I eat perhaps 60-100 g/ carbs

    I eat maybe 30 g/fat

    Take fish oil pills

    I've gone from 245 to 219lbs and gotten my waist down to 42" (yea..still need to lose a 8")...My goal weight is 165 lbs (I'm 5'4). I am a bodybuilder/powerlifter...am I getting enough nutrients for my desired weight and exersize expenditure?


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    Edit: It took out all my spacing... Tried to re-add it but no cigar. Bodybuilder here too. 31" waist. 160 pounds, 5'7".You generally need .8 x bodyweight grams of protein a day for maximum muscle building. I get around around 150 grams a day.My daily diet: 1 pound of chicken7 pieces of whole wheat breadHalf a pound of 75/25 steak1 fiber barWhich comes to about 2040 calories.As for my 5-day split: (Almost all 3x5) (looking to add back to a day)Saturday: --Shoulders--DB shoulder pressLateral RaisesFront raisesUpright rowsMonday:--Chest--3x Benchpress3x machine flys3x incline DB benchWednesday:--Abs +Pullups--3x5 Ab Crunch Machine3x Captain's Chair (straight legged)x7 Pullups1x weighted decline situps @ 25 pounds1x Plank until failureThursday:--Arms--3 set standing concentration curls3 set hammer curls3 set cable pushdown3 set one arm extensionFriday:--Legs--atg back squatsDonkey Calf Raises


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  4. #3  
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    Thanks for the advice about what and how much to eat.
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    You're welcome. Could you give me advice on how to keep the skipped lines in my posts? I'm on my Iphone but I've never had this problem on a forum before.
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    We are all unique.
    What works for one, may not work for others.
    Try your own system.
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    I backtracked a bit. I'm 223. Oh well, had a bagel and strawberries for breakfast, beef jerky for lunch and chicken and lettuce for dinner. Wanted to get four meals in but I'm not hungry because I'm living off of bodyfat in part...lol...tomorrow I'll have at least 5 small meals so I can get my protein in and raise my metabolism.

    Had a great workout though: 270 x 6 on the incline bench...then 135 x 12, 135 x 12 and a 10 minute jog.
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    IMO you need a minimum of 15 minutes cardio before you derive any benefit.
    Latinos are Republican. They just don't know it yet.
    Ronald Reagan
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  9. #8  
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    No offense but that isn't true. I've lost weight jogging 10 minutes a day.
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    OK dude,
    I was thinking of VO2 Max. One of my mates recommended supersets as a fat burner and strength builder. I had my first session today, it was chest and back. I worked hard, and I feel good.
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    Still at 223...will probably wait until summer to lose more...
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    Body fat and body weight are largely INVOLUNTARILY controlled by extremely complex neural circuitry. Voluntary factors do not affect body weight much over the long term. They are very limited.

    The variations in weight are almost as genetic as variations in height.
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    One thing I would recommend if you have experienced significant weight gain and are having a hard time shedding it, have your thyroid and pituatary glands checked. When I got out of the Army I weighed 217 and I stand 6' even. Over the next few years I began to put on weight. I grew concerned when I hit 250 and began watching my diet. When I hit 300 I began exercising more. I just hit 400 and went to the doctor. It turns out that my thyroid has shut down and that I have some sort of pituitary issue which the endrocrinologist is going to check next week. I was started on a thyroid replacement hormone and have already dropped 5 pounds. I walk 5 Miles twice a week. I swim laps for at least a half hour three days a week and now I have a "total gym" which I am using at least twice a week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lafem View Post
    Body fat and body weight are largely INVOLUNTARILY controlled by extremely complex neural circuitry. Voluntary factors do not affect body weight much over the long term. They are very limited.

    The variations in weight are almost as genetic as variations in height.
    Height is not really genetic, mainly caused by dieėt. Average human size has grown over 15cm in the last 1 or 2 generations. My mother and father are both shorter then me. There is no direct link between genetics and size. (except midgets or little people)

    Same as body weight is caused by eating. If you eat more calories then you burn, you store fat. The rate at which your body burns fat is genetic. How much percentage is actually stored is also genetic. But if you don't eat more then you burn, you don't gain weight, simple as that.

    1600-1800 kcall a day, for a human male, is far to few. A fully grown man of 1,80meters will need 2500 kcall a day. A female will need 2000 kcall a day.

    I have no idea how much i eat. I'm 1,93meters. Weight about 92kilograms. I don't exercise regularly, but i walk the dog 15-30 mins every day. Walk a lot in the lab, and on the trainstation to work another 15mins of walking time.

    As i don't limit my eating pattern, i wonder why i don't eat more while i'm hungry most of the day... Hmm
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lafem View Post
    Body fat and body weight are largely INVOLUNTARILY controlled by extremely complex neural circuitry. Voluntary factors do not affect body weight much over the long term. They are very limited.

    The variations in weight are almost as genetic as variations in height.
    Height is not really genetic, mainly caused by dieėt. Average human size has grown over 15cm in the last 1 or 2 generations. My mother and father are both shorter then me. There is no direct link between genetics and size. (except midgets or little people)

    Same as body weight is caused by eating. If you eat more calories then you burn, you store fat. The rate at which your body burns fat is genetic. How much percentage is actually stored is also genetic. But if you don't eat more then you burn, you don't gain weight, simple as that.

    1600-1800 kcall a day, for a human male, is far to few. A fully grown man of 1,80meters will need 2500 kcall a day. A female will need 2000 kcall a day.

    I have no idea how much i eat. I'm 1,93meters. Weight about 92kilograms. I don't exercise regularly, but i walk the dog 15-30 mins every day. Walk a lot in the lab, and on the trainstation to work another 15mins of walking time.

    As i don't limit my eating pattern, i wonder why i don't eat more while i'm hungry most of the day... Hmm
    Obesity is almost as heritable as height. Science has soundly established this. Look into Dr. Jeffrey Friedman. "Modern Science vs The Stigma of Obesity"

    Obesity is far more complex than you will admit. Fat cells hoard. Fuel partitioning is not the same as the lean etc.
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    I know it is more complicated then that. But explain me why the numbers of obesity has only recently exploded. Did we mutate?
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    Part of the reason for the increase in obesity numbers is from sedentary lifestyles. Generally a person only needs a 2-3000 Calorie diet if they are highly active. When a person eats fast food two or three times a day they can be consuming as much as 6-8000 calories. Factor in a job that has them sitting in front of a computer most of the day and you can begin to understand why the numbers have exploded.
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    That is, of course, correct.

    There is also one other factor, recently discovered. Gut bacteria.
    Experiments on mice have shown that if you take fecal samples from obese mice, and put it into the food of lean mice, they will gain weight. Other experiments on humans have confirmed this also applies to our species.

    It appears that the mix of species of bacteria in the human gut has a very powerful effect on leanness/obesity. The suggestion is that modern hygiene plus the use of antibiotics has changed the gut bacteria mix, and tilted us towards being obese.
    Obesity: How Intestinal Bacteria May Cause Weight Gain - TIME
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    coupl'a years ago i began to notice that i looked fat in most photographs
    and i could no longer sleep on my belly without it giving me a back ache
    so
    i cut back on my portions and started paying attention to antioxidents and probiotics
    i still drink whiskey and eat chocolate and pretty much anything i want(including bacon) (just a bit less of it)
    and am finally just below 170 lbs---5'10"-11" and near the weight for most of my adult life
    down from 190++-----
    ------mid sixties, and still working at building everything from sculpture to my 4 tiered 4 chambered greenhouse
    muscles--------------use 'em or loose 'em
    today, (after working 7 hours with my 23 year old helper, Jules,and another 5 before he came) i took a couple mile stroll down along the river, crossed a creek and came around to a meadow
    then back up to my frog pond(i had it dug and dammed for the "world wide dieback of reptiles", knowing nothing of the chytrid fungus---thinking i'd give the frogs and toads a pleasant place to reproduce) ,(saw a lonely green frog still waiting for a mate---for a couple weeks now, and a pair of fucking pickeral frogs, and a box turtle),,,walked on, then mowed the lawn for an hour
    activity and smaller portions is working so far--------------------
    i grow most of my vegetables and plan to grow food and spices in the greenhouse , eat venison for most of my meat, and eggs from my free range chickens
    once or twice a year, i treat myself to some "McDougal whoppers"
    if the chores and/or whiskey don't kill me. I'll live till I die.
    (a tad thinner and lighter on my old knees)
    ................................
    "every day above ground is a holiday"(holy day, wholly day)
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  20. #19  
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    down to 219 lbs...
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    That is, of course, correct.

    There is also one other factor, recently discovered. Gut bacteria.
    Experiments on mice have shown that if you take fecal samples from obese mice, and put it into the food of lean mice, they will gain weight. Other experiments on humans have confirmed this also applies to our species.
    Actually, to me this sounds like an excuse for "fat" people to be happy how they look, because they have those nasty gut bacteria. It can't be their fault they take 2 seats in the train to sit on. Or if it is very full, 2 people have to stand because the man can't keep standing in a moving train. Meh.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Actually, to me this sounds like an excuse for "fat" people to be happy how they look, because they have those nasty gut bacteria. It can't be their fault they take 2 seats in the train to sit on. Or if it is very full, 2 people have to stand because the man can't keep standing in a moving train. Meh.
    Zwolver

    The gut bacteria finding is an example of good science.
    Your statement above is an example of bad prejudice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottspieler View Post
    down to 219 lbs...
    Are you using any fat burner products ?
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    I suppose to start off I should let you guys know I am not really an avid exerciser. I do it for about an hour when I want to. This is okay for me since I don't eat bad foods (okay.. I occasionally do.) But it all depends on the person, their genes, and their body type.

    Okay. . .anyway. One thing that I did that seemed to work out was alternating between running and walking such as.. sprint for 30 seconds and walk for 1 minute. While your walking during that "relax" time your heart is still beating fast so you are [supposed to] burn more calories that way. As for eating habits of mine uh.. I will keep that to myself :P They are not the worst but I am no health guru.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuessWho View Post
    I suppose to start off I should let you guys know I am not really an avid exerciser. I do it for about an hour when I want to. This is okay for me since I don't eat bad foods (okay.. I occasionally do.) But it all depends on the person, their genes, and their body type.

    Okay. . .anyway. One thing that I did that seemed to work out was alternating between running and walking such as.. sprint for 30 seconds and walk for 1 minute. While your walking during that "relax" time your heart is still beating fast so you are [supposed to] burn more calories that way. As for eating habits of mine uh.. I will keep that to myself :P They are not the worst but I am no health guru.
    Yes, that sounds like standard interval training, but with a 30 second sprint on a 1 minute recovery, you will soon hit Lactic acid. Doing that type of training, twice a week in the winter months, will increase your PH buffer, but IMO will not do that much for sustained weight loss.
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    Dear Dave Wilson. When I am Cremated, providing the Pit Bulls don't eat me first, the fat should burn really well, ensuring a blazing hot burn to finish the rest of me off rapidly. Nothing like a good burn. Skinny people cannot generate enough heat so they hang onto them until a good obese person comes along, then do the two together. Wikipeadia will not admit this but you ask your local crematorium. westwind.
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    Dear westwind,
    Thank you for sharing that.
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  28. #27  
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    jeez man, why waste all that good fat you've been saving up all these years
    have yourself rendered down and turn into body lotion and soap, then grind up what's left to feed the chickens
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by westwind View Post
    Dear Dave Wilson. When I am Cremated, providing the Pit Bulls don't eat me first, the fat should burn really well, ensuring a blazing hot burn to finish the rest of me off rapidly. Nothing like a good burn. Skinny people cannot generate enough heat so they hang onto them until a good obese person comes along, then do the two together. Wikipeadia will not admit this but you ask your local crematorium. westwind.
    Have a read of this,

    " Dead obese woman had so much body fat she set the building on fire during her cremation "

    Dead obese woman had so much body fat she set the building on fire during her cremation | Mail Online
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  30. #29  
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    Guys I know this is a weight management thread, I'd really hope we could lose a few pounds without cremation!

    More seriously, how do you burn off the last of bit of stomach fat to make abs stand out? Does it require fat burning pills or can be done through diet alone?
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
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  31. #30  
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    Er, I basically eat what I want and don't do much exercise. I play golf every weekend where I walk everywhere and would love to get a good tennis partner so I could do that too.

    6'4", around 280 pounds, 44" waist.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    6'4", around 280 pounds, 44" waist.
    Kal, are you sure your not a wrestler in your spare time.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
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  33. #32  
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    Nah, just a tall fat guy.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    Stomach stapling.
    That is the way!
    Works every time.
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  35. #34  
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    No way. I can still play a full tennis match without dying. Once I get out of this rut, I'll definitely get more exercise. I just need someone who can challenge me at tennis! Stomach stapling is for extreme cases. I am nowhere near that.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
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  36. #35  
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    Kalster

    Postponing exercise till you find an exercise partner is not the way to go. Exercise needs to be done now.

    My own approach is a bit solitary. I do a program of what I call 'physical jerks' three times a week, which takes about 90 minutes each time. I also go walking with my wife about 3 times a week for an hour. Our walks are over some very steep hills.

    Having said that, of course, I need to add that such exercise is unlikely to help you lose weight. The only exercise that consistently leads to weight loss is excessive exercise. That is - more than 3 hours per day, every day. Moderate exercise tends to boost the old appetite, and it all balances out.

    However, I still strongly recommend regular exercise. It boosts fitness and health. It may even lead to making you look better, by converting heavy fat into heavy muscle. But it is not likely to lead to weight loss.
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    For skeptic. When I was Young, 12 to 38 years, I exercised my right elbow constantly, almost nightly after work. Then sometimes at weekend Bar-b-ques I would maintain this exercise for hours on end. Result' I have a very slim musclular elbow now. However, even though my tummy must also have received a lot of stretching exercise, there is now no evidence of this. In fact, If I lean forwards I tend to tip over. As for putting on my socks of a morning I just dip my feet in some vegetable colouring dye, beetroot is my favourite. A quick toast by the gas fire then into my thongs. westwind.
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  38. #37  
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    The thing is Westwind, if you exercise a part of your body, it gets better at what it does. The stomach is for holding food. The more you exercise it, the better it gets at holding food......
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    We'll I'm 6' and 197lb with 34'' waist, I'm in reasonably good shape but trying to shift belly fat to actually see my abs is hard to say the least!
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
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  40. #39  
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    back up to 222..
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    6 feet , 179 #

    My workouts are mostly at home. I like bands because they have such a low risk of injury. I try and do bands 3 times a week and a home stretch routine 4-5 times a week. I would like to learn barbells or kettle bells.

    Other than that, I am trying to learn Olympic race walking. My best mile time is only 10:30 this past week. I don't run anymore to preserve my knees.

    I like to surf. However, I don't surf enough to really call it exercise. It is more fun / relaxation.

    I watch carbs., and drink a liter of water every day with a teaspoon of Greens in the liter.

    I keep healthy snacks at home and at work so I don't eat junk if I get hungry.

    I am hoping to find a martial art to practice although since I am older I can't do the stuff I did when I was younger.
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  42. #41  
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    Dedo, tai chi is good exercise because it's excruciatingly slow. Simply holding your arm up for a very long time is harder than it looks. Try it now.

    You also mentioned your knees. I took up tai chi 15 years ago specifically to strengthen leg muscles and improve stance, as I was developing arthritis in my knees. After 15 years of using my knees properly (while using them as much), I have no arthritis.

    And tai chi is as much an art of surfing as martial art. If you like to surf you'll love tai chi.


    ***

    Posting about my diet/exercise/weight is pointless, because my metabolism relentlessly burns off surplus calories as heat, rather than build fat. In cold weather I can (and do) eat mayonnaise by the spoonful, cookies by the carton. I enjoy winter. In hot weather excessive calories make me flushed, sweaty, uncomfortable. So energy budget, for me, is largely a thermal issue.

    I think calorie loss though body heat is underappreciated. Seems to me that turning down the thermostat and shedding the sweater is a lot easier than treadmilling in a heated room.

    Perhaps the weight difference between Canadians and Americans is partially due to latitude? The highest rates of obesity are in the southeast, lowest in the west and north. But then Hawaii and Alaska contradict. It would be difficult to get good statistical data on people's thermal habits including insulative value of clothing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong View Post
    Dedo, tai chi is good exercise because it's excruciatingly slow. Simply holding your arm up for a very long time is harder than it looks. Try it now.

    You also mentioned your knees. I took up tai chi 15 years ago specifically to strengthen leg muscles and improve stance, as I was developing arthritis in my knees. After 15 years of using my knees properly (while using them as much), I have no arthritis.

    And tai chi is as much an art of surfing as martial art. If you like to surf you'll love tai chi.
    Thanks Pong:

    Tai chi looks pretty cool also.

    So much of the martial arts in our area is focused on MMA that is more appropriate for young people.

    Best,

    Dedo
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    What do you guy's think are the main draw backs of using amphetamines as fat burners and speeding up the metabolism?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    What do you guy's think are the main draw backs of using amphetamines as fat burners and speeding up the metabolism?
    Amphetamine Side Effects | Drugs.com

    I quote :

    "Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue); blurred vision or other vision problems; change in sexual ability or desire; chest pain; confusion; fainting; fast or irregular heartbeat; fever, chills, or sore throat; new or worsening mental or mood problems (eg, aggression, agitation, anxiety, delusions, depression, hallucination, hostility); numbness or tingling of an arm or leg; one-sided weakness; painful or frequent urination; red, swollen, peeling, or blistered skin; seizures; severe or persistent headache; severe stomach pain; severe weight loss; shortness of breath; sudden, severe dizziness or vomiting; slurred "
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    What do you guy's think are the main draw backs of using amphetamines as fat burners and speeding up the metabolism?
    I can not think of anything good to say about amphetamines, if you want to reduce fat, have a look at some of the fat burners on this web site. Everything that Maximuscle sells, is legal here in the UK.

    Maximuscle.com complete sports nutrition and whey protein supplement shop offering the best quality nutrition plans and nutritional supplements
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    There has been a lot of research into weight loss. The results are clear cut and should be widely recognised, but they are not.

    1. Only 5% of those who try to lose weight are able to do so long term (meaning 5 years or more). The other 95% may lose weight initially, but put it all back on again, and most end up heavier than they started.

    2. The majority of those who try to lose weight actually harm their health through this yo yo pattern of weight loss followed by excess weight gain.

    3. The human body appears to be 'designed' in such a way as to resist weight loss. If you set out to lose weight by diet or exercise, there are metabolic changes which 'hang on' to very gram of fat, and increase the appetite, and create food cravings. These adaptations for hanging onto body mass make it almost impossible to lose weight other than temporarily.

    4. The final conclusion is that, for most people, the attempt to lose weight is futile and should not even be begun. The proper approach is not to try to lose weight, but to try to improve health. You do this, not by a diet, but by changing your food habits, so that you dump the junk food, replacing it with good nutritious food - and also by changing your exercise habits, so that you become fitter and healthier.

    Such a change in lifestyle is unlikely to cause weight loss, and this should be accepted. However, it will make a person fitter, healthier and better looking.
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    I'd suggest trying the Paleo lifestyle -it's not a diet-, the best part of this topic is studying it trains the mind as well as the body
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    The "Paleo lifestyle" is just as much an idiotic fad as the rest. It is, at best, an improved diet. At worst, it is just another way for quacks to extract money out of you by selling overpriced 'special' foods.

    There are no secrets about diet. It is really, really simple, and does not require 'special' or expensive foods. It just requires following a few simple rules, which I (or dozens of other people on this forum) can elucidate if you want.

    In the same way, exercise is not complicated, either. We need to work our bodies to keep them healthy. There are dozens of approaches to healthy exercise, and they all work. The most important thing is simply to do it. An absolute minimum is an exercise session three times a week, sufficiently vigorous to get you breathing harder. More is better, but there is nothing complicated about it.
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    Skeptic

    I won't respond directly to your comments as I see them as you giving your personal opinion, which I respect. But the comments you have put across are the ones I deal with on a daily basis in my line of work, they are the comments I get from people who speak about topics, using hearsay based knowledge and before they have done their own research... everyone wants to be a skeptic.

    The Paleo lifestyle is basically a system where you choose foods that you can either gather yourself, or hunt it. So meats and vegetables and nothing processed. The best part of this is when you have to go out yourself and find your own food. In the forests around the world I've been in I've gathered Billberries, wild Strawberries, Blueberries and Mushrooms, to name just a few.

    The reason why this lifestyle trains your mind isn't because you have to buy a ton of books on the diet, although I usually study for 2 hours a night on random topics - currently learning Russian. It's because you start off with basically nothing and over time you add foods to your list until you have a long list of products. I am still practically a beginner on the Paleo system, so I still eat grains, which you're not supposed to eat, but I'm not ready to give up my morning oats.

    Would anyone like to know more?
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    I understand why you would like to reject my comments.
    However, they are not based purely on opinion. I have spent a great deal of time studying health, and I have read a lot about the Paleo diet. I am not saying it is bad. It is perfectly adequate. But it is not a better diet than that recommended by professional nutritionists, which does not require the semi-religious faith in a 'primitive' way of life.

    There is absolutely no reason why people cannot stay as healthy, if not more so, on a diet of food bought at the local supermarket, as that recommended by the paleo enthusiasts.

    Nor is there anything wrong with grains. As long as they are grains with a good fibre loading. Oats are very good, and your morning porridge is excellent food, as long as it is not accompanied by a load of refined sugars. My main source of grains is via bread that I make myself in a modern bread maker, with a good mix of wholemeal, protein flour and seeds. Of course, some grains are bad, with white rice and white flour at the top of that 'bad' list. But other grains are excellent for good health.

    You do not need to hunt your own meats for them to be healthy. The main problem with meats is fat loading. However, if you cook without fat, and you cut off the worst of the fat, the small amount left is perfectly OK. Fish is excellent, bought from the supermarket or fishmonger. Again, cooked without fat.

    Basically, the paleo diet is unnecessary, and confers no advantage that proper buying and preparation of food at home cannot do for you.
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    Very good post, glad to get a genuine counter argument for once. I would agree with everything you posted, including that the Paleo Lifestyle is not a necessity, but it is still there for anyone who it appeals to, and I'd gladly give more details.

    I find it very good for mental sharpness, and there is a constant release of ancestral endorphins when you know exactly where your food comes from - when you find it yourself.
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    As the old saying goes : "Whatever floats your boat."

    If the Paleo diet is what gives you some kind of personal satisfaction, then fine. However, I certainly would not recommend it to anyone asking for diet advice, because there are very sound methods of getting an excellent diet without the hassle.
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    Well based on experience as well it saved my friends life. He was the one that recommended it to me as a area of study. He was obese, developed type 2 Diabetes and his joints were in bits. Now about 5 years later he is ripped to shreads (6 pack), very successful and trains other people. He has two Businesses, one that he runs from 5am-8am & his "day job" as he calls it. He was on the cover of Mens Health Australia - nothing to do with how he used to be, he didn't use that to get on the mag, & runs the Australian Team for the Tough Mudder competition that's coming up soon. He was an advisor on an old site we used to run, my specialty is suplementation, at 24 I already have 6 years experience in the field.
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    My congratulations to your friend.

    I hope he is one of the 5% that research shows are able to lose weight long term. It takes severe personal discipline to do that, and 95% of the population fail. Almost anyone can lose weight short term, but the trick is to keep it off, and that is close to impossible for the majority of us.
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  56. #55  
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    yippee
    I'm a 5%er(thanx skeptic)
    (almost)4 years+ (so far)
    after the hernia operation, when the doc said that a big glob of fat had protruded through the herniated abdominal wall, I knew that it was time to drop a few lbs.
    Because I like building things, I'm naturally active, so it came down to eating smaller portions, and increasing protiens over carbs---
    I still like my whiskey and heavily buttered rye toast, but the weight has held steady within 5 lbs. of what I weighed 40 years ago.
    ....................
    some are claiming that the obesity "epidemic" now kills more people and accounts for more doctor visits and hospitalizations than smoking, alcoholism, or any other Lifestyle choices
    ..........
    from what I read about the paleo diet/lifestyle, it seems that the goal is to live and eat as though we were pre-agriculture.
    which means living within the natural carrying capacity of the land
    which means either finding a bigger planet, or loosing some population
    so not a workable solution for all of mankind(reversion to existentialism)
    Another benefit of paleo, is that wild fruits are smaller, and that antioxidents are concentrated in the skin(surface), so percentage of antioxidants goes up with "wild foods"
    .....that being said..

    sure body fortress
    do tell more
    I do not even know all that is eatable within 1/2 mile of my house, so rely on my garden and the grocery store, though most of my protien comes from from killing deer and fishing(and I like my venison and eggs raw)
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    I managed to do it thank god, I was 14.5 stone once, I weigh 11.5 stone now. I lost 42 punds in 4 months... 6 years ago. That's when I dedicated my career to helping others achieve their goals.

    My knowledge on the caveman diet is that the research on fossils showed that our ancient ancestors lived longer than the average person does now. Also they didn't have modern day diseases like Cancer. Our bodies have become immune to the diseases that they had back then so going on this diet is anti-carcinogenic and you don't have to worry about the diseases they risked from badly cooked meat.

    You basically live on foods that aren't processed, so no grains, beans (including peanuts of course), pulses, dairy etc. I thought this would be hard but apart from porridge and supplements containing dairy I am almost completely Paleo.

    I find that a good diet can't change you straight away, but if you put quality into your body then you'll get the maximum out. That's why i always go for Organic eggs and Grass fed meats. All my poultry is guaranteed not corn fed.

    Any queries?
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  58. #57  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Body_Fortress View Post

    My knowledge on the caveman diet is that the research on fossils showed that our ancient ancestors lived longer than the average person does now. Also they didn't have modern day diseases like Cancer.
    Sorry, but that is not true.

    Our ancient ancestors lived much shorter lives than we do today, according to evidence gleaned by anthropologists studying the lives of tribes living the way our distant ancestors did. Also, cancerous lesions are sometimes found on sub fossil bones. Such have been found even on dinosaur bones.

    Today, cancer rates are up on what they were 200 years ago, but the reason is simple. Cancer is a disease of old age. A person is 100 times more likely to develop cancer in his/her 75th year than in his/her 25th year. When people live longer, there is a lot more cancer. Cancer rates among our primitive forebears would have been lower than today, but only because most would not have lived long enough to develop that disease.

    Do not believe that Ugg the caveman ate better than we do. Quite the opposite. Today we have access to far healthier foods than the ancients did. Most of the food Ugg ate would have been plants, and most of those plants would have contained significant amounts of toxins. Humanity has been breeding plants to make them taste better, for thousands of years. Wild plants generally are nastier than domesticated ones. Even wild lettuce contains significant amounts of a nasty toxin.

    Most plant toxins confer a bitter flavour to the plant. We have been breeding plants to make them less bitter, for a long time, and as such, making them less toxic.
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  59. #58  
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    Our ancient ancestors lived much shorter lives than we do today,.
    wrong
    life span has not changed in thousands of years (probably hundreds of thousnds of years, the first neanderthal skeleton that was found was well into his 70s)

    what has changed is average lifespan by controlling some childhood diseases, and infections
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  60. #59  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    what has changed is average lifespan by controlling some childhood diseases, and infections
    I agree, with the proviso that more than just childhood diseases and infections are the cause. But in what way does this change my argument?
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  61. #60  
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    change your argument?
    dunno
    just the part about
    Our ancient ancestors lived much shorter lives than we do today
    ,. could be easily misunderstood to mean that the lifespan for the species was longer today than in the past.

    confusing absolutes with averages is always problematic
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    Yet my statement was accurate and correct. Is your quibble actually necessary?

    Incidentally, some recent research results, just in, show that the caloric restriction method of extending life span does not work on rhesus monkeys, and the implication is that it will not work on humans, either. Whatever our potential life span, it cannot be increased. All we can do is try to remove causes of early death.
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    I'll put a bit more time into making sure I am right about that point, but my knowledge of that area is based on reading several journals of medicine.

    Seems like we've reached a point of respect in this debate, as you only chose a small part of my post to counter argue.

    Normally forums don't allow this much debate in a thread, I think we should use this thread to help other users, before a moderator steps in and asks us to stay on topic.
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    On matters like this, you need to be sure of your source of information. There are myriads of web sites which spread disinformation.

    This particular kind of topic is especially prone to false info. The reason is that there is a widely and firmly held belief to the effect that what is natural is best. This is sometimes true, of course. But very definitely not always. However, there is a kind of pseudo-religious approach that always accept that whatever is more 'natural' must be better. That belief, when inflexible, amounts to superstition.

    The Paleo diet is an example of the view that natural is better, and the Paleo diet is seen as more natural and therefore better. However, it is important that the 'natural is better' approach is understood not to be science. That does not mean it is wrong, but it does not mean it is right either. Caution is needed, and good sources of data.
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    My sources of data are always from the best sources, beleive me they have to be in my line of work. The reason I said I'll look into my research isn't because I think I gave bad advice, it's because I got a counter argument and I always double check... just to make sure.

    I have looked around this section a bit and I sense that you've had a bit of a monopoly here when it comes to advice, maybe you're continuing this debate because you feel like I'm intruding, I guess the other members of the forum need both arguments on all areas so they can decide for themselves.
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    Please post your references so that others can judge whether they represent good science.
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  67. #66  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Body_Fortress View Post
    My knowledge on the caveman diet is that the research on fossils showed that our ancient ancestors lived longer than the average person does now. Also they didn't have modern day diseases like Cancer.
    This sounded so dubious that I couldn't continue past it. What is this mysterious job of yours that requires such accurate sources? If you're in medical research, you should make that clear as it would certainly lend more credibility to what you are saying. Otherwise, it sounds a little shady.

    I will agree that avoiding many processed foods is a good thing. I try to stay away from artificial ingredients and preservatives. However, I would like to see some more evidence that the diet of prehistoric man led to a longer life. I would think that their substantially poorer sanitation habits would have led to far greater instances of disease.
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    I'll pull some references tommorrow when I've more time. I wouldn't call it medical research, although that's what my superiors like to call it. I work in Research for NBTY Inc. Also I am a Nutritional advisor and qualified in all areas of supplements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    I try to stay away from artificial ingredients and preservatives.
    That is a very common attitude, but not a correct one.

    It is a good general rule to stay clear of processed foods, but not for that reason. The real 'nasty' ingredients in processed foods are :
    1. Saturated fats and transfats.
    2. Sugars
    3. Salt
    4. Starch that is not accompanied by lots of dietary fibre.

    Additives and preservatives are thoroughly tested and pretty much harmless. But large amounts of any of the four items above can damage your health.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Body_Fortress View Post
    I'll pull some references tommorrow when I've more time. I wouldn't call it medical research, although that's what my superiors like to call it. I work in Research for NBTY Inc. Also I am a Nutritional advisor and qualified in all areas of supplements.
    I have had a look at NBTY Inc, they seem to be very similar to Holland & Barrett here in the UK.
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    H&B is a part of NBTY INC. H&B is the store level of that part of the company, there's no store version of NBTY, unless you include VitaminWorld
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    OK BF,
    Thanks for the heads up. Do you have any cutting edge products in the pipe line ?
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  73. #72  
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    Paleo vitamins????????

    Eeeeeeeek Ohhhh Nooooooooooo
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  74. #73  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
    Paleo vitamins????????

    Eeeeeeeek Ohhhh Nooooooooooo
    Come on sculptor, give the dude a chance.
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    Don't worry I knew someone would bring it up, I've said it over and over to the guys who are 100% Paleo, but for some reason they don't count Supplements as agricultural age foods.

    IMO There is no such thing as 100% Paleo.

    Not much going on right in terms of new products, the investments are based around licensing products in Europe so that they're not put on prescription and we've starting opening stores in China.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    I try to stay away from artificial ingredients and preservatives.
    That is a very common attitude, but not a correct one.

    It is a good general rule to stay clear of processed foods, but not for that reason. The real 'nasty' ingredients in processed foods are :
    1. Saturated fats and transfats.
    2. Sugars
    3. Salt
    4. Starch that is not accompanied by lots of dietary fibre.

    Additives and preservatives are thoroughly tested and pretty much harmless. But large amounts of any of the four items above can damage your health.
    Firstly, sugars don't scare me because I know what they are and how the body handles them. Second, nothing has trans fat anymore that I've seen. Finally, sodium benzoate and other salts are often found in preservatives, which is why I stay away from them.

    My concerns are mostly with ingredients I don't recognize or who's molecular configuration is unknown to me. I'm intelligent enough to sort out the other stuff on my own. There are salt, sugar, and fats in nature. It's the man-made stuff that I prefer to avoid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    There are salt, sugar, and fats in nature. It's the man-made stuff that I prefer to avoid.
    And this is the silly approach*. I makes not the slightest difference whether something is 'natural' or man made. it is the body's reaction that counts, and your body does not care. Only two things are important.
    1. How toxic is it.
    2. How big is the dose.

    In the case of things like sodium benzoate, that falls clearly within legal criteria. The toxicity of preservatives are tested, and more toxic materials are forbidden. The dose is regulated by law, and kept below anything that can do harm.

    However, your 'natural' ingredients fall outside the protection of the law, and can be of very high dose, and can be quite 'toxic' at that dose. Fats, sugars, salt, and starch can kill you. Sodium benzoate is almost certain not to cause you the least harm.


    * Not intending to have a go at you, personally, Flick. Just that I see this idea a lot, and it has no science behind it. Just a kind of greenie dogma. So I react in favour of science.
    Last edited by skeptic; September 3rd, 2012 at 05:34 PM.
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    I'm interested to know what the posters of this forum have to share about tartrazine.

    Thank you in advance to any who respond. I'll be back....
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    I'm interested to know what the posters of this forum have to share about tartrazine.

    Thank you in advance to any who respond. I'll be back....
    I do not know very much about Tartrazine, but a quick Google, says that it has disappeared from food sold in the UK.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wilson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    I'm interested to know what the posters of this forum have to share about tartrazine.

    Thank you in advance to any who respond. I'll be back....
    I do not know very much about Tartrazine, but a quick Google, says that it has disappeared from food sold in the UK.
    Interestingly, I came across a few articles that stated it was very little used any more yet when I started paying attention to labels I found it in almost all dill pickles, green relishes, packaged puddings and many baked goods just to name a few. Most of these things I do not eat very much of but if one dines out or eats at a friend's house one does not know with certainty what one has ingested. The origins of tartrazine are a concern to me and I seem to be sensitive to this product in particular having kept a food diary and observed a consistent correlation.

    Tartrazine, a yellow food dye used in ice cream, soft drinks and fish sticks. It is a sodium salt and contains more salt than the human body can handle. Besides hyperactivity, research has linked it to asthma, skin rashes, and migraines. This product is banned in Norway and Austria.
    CBC News In Depth: Food Safety

    Tartrazine was previously banned in some of the EU nations but apparently has been re-evaluated and permitted as of 2009.

    CONCLUSIONS
    Tartrazine (E 102) is an azo dye allowed as a food additive in the EU, and has been previously evaluated
    by the Joint WHO/FAO Expert Committee on Food Additives (JECFA) in 1966 and the EU Scientific
    Committee for Food (SCF) in 1975 and 1984. Both committees established an ADI of 0-7.5 mg/kg
    bw/day.
    The Panel concludes that the present dataset does not give reason to revise the ADI of 7.5 mg/kg bw/day.
    http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/doc/1331.pdf


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  81. #80  
    Forum Ph.D. Dave Wilson's Avatar
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    Very interesting links that you have posted, but a quick look through the pantry does not reveal any E102. Now that you have brought Tartrazine to my attention I will avoid it like the plague.
    Latinos are Republican. They just don't know it yet.
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  82. #81  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
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    Tartrazine is a food dye, and is not used as much today as it once was. The problem seems to affect about one person in 800, due to a kind of allergic response. I do not think that we need to get paranoid about it, since the odds are strongly against any one of us being allergic.

    To put this into perspective, remember that 1 person in 100 is allergic to peanuts; 1 in 100 to soya beans; 1 in 100 to milk etc. All natural products and all healthy except for the unfortunate 1 in 100 exception.

    There are, however, a number of 'stories' circulating about tartrazine, claiming all kinds of harm, including shrinking a man's penis, and all totally unfounded scientifically. If you come across those stories, I suggest you ignore them.
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  83. #82  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
    Tartrazine is a food dye, and is not used as much today as it once was. The problem seems to affect about one person in 800, due to a kind of allergic response. I do not think that we need to get paranoid about it, since the odds are strongly against any one of us being allergic.

    To put this into perspective, remember that 1 person in 100 is allergic to peanuts; 1 in 100 to soya beans; 1 in 100 to milk etc. All natural products and all healthy except for the unfortunate 1 in 100 exception.

    There are, however, a number of 'stories' circulating about tartrazine, claiming all kinds of harm, including shrinking a man's penis, and all totally unfounded scientifically. If you come across those stories, I suggest you ignore them.
    In Canada, tartrazine is used in far more products than one would be inclined to think, given the remark that 'it is not used as much today as it once was.' While some of the harmful claims do seem much exaggerated, there has been more research into the numbers of people who may be sensitive to this dye. I don't much fancy ingesting a coal tar derivative and I have demonstrated to my own satisfaction through much personal research that I do in fact react to this substance experiencing swelling, pain and tingling in my hands and fingers within 12-18 hours of ingesting it. In others, the sensitivity may produce much milder symptoms and they may not even be aware that there may be a relationship between something they have eaten and these effects.

    Food Colourings - NDHealthFacts - Health Facts

    As the food industry has determined that these additives are GRAS within acceptable (to them) limits, it falls to the individual to do their own homework. I am just thankful that regulations require they be listed on the label so that those who wish to avoid them may do so.

    As to the topic of this thread regarding eating and exercise habits, I tend to eat primarily whole foods in their natural state and do most of my cooking from scratch. There are some canned and frozen veggies and fruits that I use for convenience as working graveyards rather cuts into my creative cooking time. Fortunately, many fruits and veggies can be eaten with little or no preparation. I eat very little bread, pasta or rice and prefer whole grain variants of those when I do eat them. Yogurt, a small amount of cheese, butter and cream for my coffee, do not drink milk, and no soy. Walnuts, pecans, ground flax seed. Chicken, pork, beef, turkey, cod, tuna and haddock, but none of the other seafoods. Water, tea, coffee daily, red wine and dark rum occasionally. No soda pop, minimal juice.

    I don't 'work out'. My night job is very physical and I walk several kilometers daily. Reside in a rural area and gardening and between work and caring for the horses and grounds I get sufficient exercise to stay fit without resorting to additional physical expenditure of energy.
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  84. #83  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
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    Schaherazade

    Sounds like you live a fairly healthy life style. The only thing I 'disagree' with you on is bread and rice, which are very healthy foods if you are talking of whole grain breads and brown rice. I bake my own bread (Because it is much cheaper) and use wholemeal and 5 different seeds in the mix. I eat lots of that very healthy bread.

    However, I get the impression that you are skating next to some non scientific dogma, and I think you should be aware of that. The reference you posted is highly suspect. Among other things, it promotes naturopathy, which is really just another form of quack medicine with little to recommend it.

    There are lots of internet sites which are nothing more than crackpot sites, and I suspect you may have been influenced by some. Good science, meaning rigorous testing, is the standard to adhere to. Too many so-called health sites are based on idiotic dogma instead of science.
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  85. #84  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    I'm sorry that you think so little of my reference, skeptic. My main reason for posting it was the references sited at the bottom of that page which include universities, Canadian government and UK food guide research.
    Somehow, I never considered those to be crackpot sources. From the link in my previous post, these are the sources I refer to.

    References

    Then again, I'm not totally convinced by everything 'science' when the medical profession seems to only want to prescribe pills and medication instead of a healthy lifestyle.
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  86. #85  
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    Scheherazade

    I am not having a go at you personally. It is more a general warning. Too many web sites are simply not reliable, and the one you posted ranks among them.

    I have no problem with your choice of life style which appears to be sensible. However, we need to be aware that the distinction between 'natural' and 'not natural' is not of great importance. Lots of 'natural' things are, in fact, very toxic. Lots of 'not natural' things are very good. The distinction should be healthy or unhealthy without regard to the irrelevant natural/not natural distinction.

    Further, for myself, I have a great need for these things to be quantified by scientific testing. There are all together too many idiots in this world who will tell all and sundry that something is nasty, or causes cancer, or whatever, without having the slightest idea of how this stacks up quantitatively. If you want to tell me something, give me the numbers.
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  87. #86  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Not to worry, skeptic. I'm highly unlikely to rush out and quaff down hemlock because you may not share my concern or opinion on a topic.

    I have done some reading also in regard to how the determination of GRAS is arrived at and find the methodology to favor the interests of industry over those of the consumer but that is a debate for another thread. The reading, by the way, was done on the government's own sites.

    I, too, am a skeptic, and I am especially skeptical where profit margins are concerned.
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  88. #87  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
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    Being skeptical about profit margins is good. I should point out though, that the good scientists who work for government agents that approve or refrain from approving such things as food additives, are also very skeptical of profit margins. They are not naive. They are not corrupt. Generally, they make pretty good decisions.

    Recently, for example, the pharmaceutical company, Smith Klein and French was fined 3 billion dollars for dishonest business activities.
    GlaxoSmithKline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    So you may be assured that they are not permitted to get away with dishonesty - at least not always.
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  89. #88  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Sadly, that reassures me very little, and I rather share the opinion expressed here. Glad that they caught one, though.

    You will note that the FDA is one of the oversight bodies and it is implied that they are perhaps guilty of not performing due diligence. Another reason that I question the GRAS guidelines for a number of items.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/29/op...real-harm.html
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  90. #89  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
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    I can understand how that "seeding trial" was not considered as an indicator of problems. It is the actual clinical trials run earlier that matter. Sounds like those clinical trials were the ones that were not conducted too well. Or else the harm was insufficient to ring alarm bells in those trials. I do not have enough data to judge.

    Certainly there are times pharmaceutical companies misbehave, and it can have tragic consequences. The Vioxx example stands out. However, that is not something to cause us to lose confidence in those government scientists responsible for testing food additives. Nothing is perfect, of course, and anyone can make mistakes. But overall, they do a good job.

    At the end of the day, the food we eat is much more likely to harm us from 'natural' ingredients over-consumed than the small amounts of government approved food additives. If I am looking at using processed food, my concern is the amount of fat, salt, sugar and refined starch - not preservatives and colourings. Eating too much of the former kills hundreds of thousands of people each year. The latter - well, you would be struggling to find a single example of a person dying as a result of consuming preservatives and colourings, or synthetic pesticide residues, or any other "non natural" additive in food.
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  91. #90  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Originally posted by skeptic:

    'my concern is the amount of fat, salt, sugar and refined starch...'
    .....along with not smoking and proper exercise.

    You are speaking to the confirmed regarding the above.

    Whatever your criticisms of the enthusiastic claims of WHFoods site, they do have some easy to read charts and data on the nutrient breakdown of 127 foods that are healthier choices than processed food. A helpful tool for the person just beginning down the treacherous path of nutritional studies, IMO.
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  92. #91  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    The GRAS additives have not all had the benefit of long term study and so the problems that may arise from their consumption are unlikely to set off alarm bells.

    We live in an era where we have come to accept all manner of chronic aches and pains as 'normal'. People buy over the counter NSAID's and digestive aids in the largest sizes available.
    Seems like almost everybody is on 'meds' of some sort, even if it is just the 'harmless' ones listed above.

    Back to an earlier post, great to hear that you bake your own bread. I recently noticed that they have started to add amylase to almost all flours except the organic ones to date. The reason, in part, appears to be because amylase speeds up the process of converting starch to sugar which speeds up the baking process.

    Amylases find use in breadmaking and to break down complex sugars, such as starch (found in flour), into simple sugars. Yeast then feeds on these simple sugars and converts it into the waste products of alcohol and CO2. This imparts flavour and causes the bread to rise. While amylases are found naturally in yeast cells, it takes time for the yeast to produce enough of these enzymes to break down significant quantities of starch in the bread. This is the reason for long fermented doughs such as sour dough. Modern breadmaking techniques have included amylases (often in the form of malted barley) into bread improver, thereby making the process faster and more practical for commercial use.[6]
    When used as a food additive, amylase has E number E1100, and may be derived from swine pancreas or mould mushroom.
    Amylase - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And of course Wikipedia, where the combined experience of the world's population may enter their non-scientific, non-peer reviewed findings, is the absolutely least reliable source of information in the world. What could all of those 'unqualified people' possibly know about anything.
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  93. #92  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
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    Something I have said in the past is that good nutrition is easy. The basic information is well known and there are no secrets. The key is two things.

    1. Avoid the nasties except in moderation. Fats, sugars, salt, processed starch.
    2. Maximum variety in everything else.

    There are no secrets. Lots of dubious web sites will tell you of "magic" foods like blueberries, green tea, wolfberries and so on. While these foods are definitely healthy and a useful addition to a balanced diet, they are not 'magic'. They are just food. You can get a fully healthy diet without any of those things, because goodness is found everywhere.

    Coffee, for example, is rarely touted as a healthy food. But up to 4 cups a day has been found to reduce heart disease, reduce Type II diabetes, and reduce chances of Alzheimers. Coffee is not a 'magic' food. It is just one more of a wide range of good things you can add to your diet. Even good old milk is a great additive to diet, being the best source of calcium, but having a wide range of other good stuff. It even is associated with longer life.
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0722083720.htm

    I oppose bullsh!t in nutrition. Simple, science based, and sensible recommendations are what count. There are no secrets, and it is not even very complicated.
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  94. #93  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    I actually agree with your post #92, skeptic.

    I am quite astounded by the claims made on much of the packaged food in the retail store where I work. I am particularly mystified by the manner in which people are lapping up all of this low fat, low salt product and willing to pay considerably more for the manufacturer to leave out ingredients. From a thread of mine elsewhere in the virtual world, I bring forth an observation made previously.

    Stocking the soup aisle last night, and I had occasion to fill a well known brand name of cream of mushroom soup, which comes in three variants in the 284 ml (10 oz) size which one reconstitutes with an equal amount of water and heats.

    I don't buy very many canned goods, but I was curious that the three soups ranged widely in price, although all were the same size, by the same company, and their cost of producing should be nigh identical.

    This is what I observed:

    (Brand name) Mushroom soup. Cost - $1.09 per tin Per 125 ml (4 0z) portion. 110 cal. 2 gr. protein, 11% fat DV, 35% sodium DV

    BN Low fat Mushroom soup Cost - $1.79 per tin Per 125 ml (4 0z) portion. 70 cal. 2 gr. protein, 3% fat DV, 27% sodium DV

    BN Less salt Mushroom soup Cost - $2.29 per tin Per 125 ml (4 0z) portion. 70 cal. 3 gr. protein, 3% fat DV, 26% sodium DV

    That the market would tolerate paying over twice as much for a soup that has items removed from the recipe, is mind boggling.

    The low fat and less salt variants are so close to identical as to make the numbers meaningless.

    People are so conditioned to following the hype of advertising that they don't bother to do their own research, and the information printed on the product packaging.

    Truly, these things boggle my mind.
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  95. #94  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
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    Agreed.

    The details given for mushroom soup that impress me are the sodium levels. What is the point of low fat soup, if you destroy your blood pressure with high sodium?

    Another one that gets me is low fat ice cream. Those phony items are compensated for by very high sugar levels. Now, I have no problem with people eating ice cream, since it is delicious, but "low fat" is not going to make it healthy. What makes ice cream OK is moderation.
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  96. #95  
    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Keep all low fat, no fat and artificial sweeteners away from me.

    I want the real McCoy and I am in complete accord that moderation is the key. My grandfather was the one who taught us 'all things in moderation'.
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  97. #96  
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    I'm a mother of 2. After giving birth to my 2nd baby, I noticed that my metabolism slowed down. So I always make sure that aside from my usual household chores that I'll have a "Me" time where I can focus on my personal needs. In this case, I need to lose at least 10 kgs.

    I make sure that I use our treadmill for at least 30 minutes. Then I spend 30 minutes for yoga. It seemed that my efforts are not enough. So what I did was change my eating habits. Concentrated on high-fiber, veggies, fruits and less meat. I also have a cheat day. This is the time I eat my favorite desserts. After a month, my progress was only 1kg per week. So, the desperate part of me risked on using a diet supplement. I read all about Liproxenol in Yahoo and I was convinced that all-natural ingredients will hasten the process. I'm on my 3rd week and there's progress, I guess since I lost 2 kg already. It's too early for now to make conclusions. I just feel rejuvenated that I have more energy for exercise.

    Sometimes I feel like it's all in the mind. Or is it the willingness and the commitment in reaching one's goal that will make things happen?
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  98. #97  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Or is it the willingness and the commitment in reaching one's goal that will make things happen?
    Well it is. You set goals, in your mind, and once you achieve them you find other goals to reach for. That doesn't mean to stop your exercising and other things you did to achieve your goal for you still have to keep that up daily or fall behind.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
    Jimi Hendrix
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  99. #98  
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    Thinking of paleo diets:

    It seems that every winter, I add 10 or so pounds, eating lots of meat, potatos, nuts, dried fruits, cheese, etc... mostly things from autumn harvests, and stored foods.
    then
    Late winter, the paunch and cold makes my back ache, and I start looking to lose the pounds, but I've developed a taste and appetite for the rich foods of autumn and winter, so I always want to snack on nuts or cheese or...
    Thinking paleo, I think that if we pig out on the things available out the back door (so to speak) then we will be living in symbiotic eco-balance, and dropping the pounds that may have helped our ancestors survive the winters by pigging out on asparagus and early spring greens and blossoms.

    Just started switching over last couple weeks, down 2lbs so far, also more outdoor activity, my goal, ditch the other 8 pounds to get back to 170# or slightly under that. From 20 degrees f below normal temperatures most of late winter and spring, we finally had a couple 90 degree days, and the heat should help my body decide to dump the excess fat.

    all is a guess
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  100. #99  
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    Weight: 115 pounds, used to weigh 130. Height: 5'7". Currently work my fingers out by typing every day of the week. My legs get a work out whenever I have to leave my computer to piddle in the bathroom. My arms get a work out from...well, don't worry about that. My back gets a work out from all the crap people throw on me. My stomach gets a workout from all the poorly cooked meals unsettling it. Currently eat terribly unhealthily.
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  101. #100  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
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    There are a hell of a lot of crappy theories about diet, including the paleo diet. All is bullsh!t.

    Much better to look at genuine empirical evidence, rather than crappy hypotheses.
    What do we see? A very muddled picture. Why? Because there is no simple answer, no matter how much simple minds want one. The human species is enormously adaptable, and can thrive on a wide range of diets. We get Inuits eating seal meat and offal, and not much else and thriving. We get Japanese heavily into the exact opposite, rice and veges, and thriving. Masai have amongst the lowest heart disease problems in the world, and eat cows milk and cows blood in vast amounts, all rich in saturated fats.

    The world is full of total bloody morons who think they can, in their arrogance, lay down firm dietary rules. It is not so simple. There are many ways for humans to be healthy. And guess who is healthiest? Answer, modern man, with his processed food diets. Most western nations have an average life span of round 80 years. Day of old had life spans of 20 to 35 years. Draw your own conclusion.
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