Thread: What are the disadvantages to this treatment for obesity?

Hi:

I'm thinking of a two theoretical pills to help treat obesity.

Pill #1:

This pill contains two sets of anhydrous enzymes that are at the highest concentration possible.

The enzymes in set A convert monosaccharides other than glucose to glucose.

Set B contains enzymes that convert glucose to lactic acid via homolactic-acid fermentation.

Due to the above chemical conversions, this pill ultimately prevents carbohydrates from entering the bloodstream.

Pill #2:

This pill is to be consumed with Pill #1 and contains a solution consisting of "drinking" water and KOH. The KOH concentration in this pill is just low-enough to be safe for consumption..

KOH is alkaline and will help neutralize the acidic states caused by ketosis [resulting from absence of carbohydrate in the bloodstream] and lactic acid [resulting from homolactate fermentation]

These pills are to be taken in sufficient amounts before and after eating.

What would be the drawbacks to this anti-obesity therapy?


Thanks,

GX

I don't understand how the pill 2 notion could possibly work. Ketosis is a metabolic problem. Pills are digested in the, surprise!, digestive system. Stomach acids are way, way too strong for any alkaline compound to survive or to affect pH in parts of the body other than digestion and excretion organs.

And I dislike the idea of a pill or 'silver bullet' approach to obesity anyway. Silver buckshot is a much better concept. If you're thinking of the grossly obese, then there may be better approaches targeting various brain chemicals and processes or endocrine functions that seem to be variously distorted, shut down or initiated when BMI exceeds certain limits.

Originally Posted by adelady

I don't understand how the pill 2 notion could possibly work. Ketosis is a metabolic problem. Pills are digested in the, surprise!, digestive system. Stomach acids are way, way too strong for any alkaline compound to survive or to affect pH in parts of the body other than digestion and excretion organs.

Then take more KOH pills to neutralize the gastric HCl.

neutralize the gastric HCl. ???

So how would digestion work then?

Originally Posted by adelady

neutralize the gastric HCl. ???

So how would digestion work then?

The absence of HCl alone would not cause digestion to completely stop.

yes actually it basically would.

Originally Posted by Green Xenon

Hi:

I'm thinking of a two theoretical pills to help treat obesity.

Pill #1:

This pill contains two sets of anhydrous enzymes that are at the highest concentration possible.

The enzymes in set A convert monosaccharides other than glucose to glucose.

Set B contains enzymes that convert glucose to lactic acid via homolactic-acid fermentation.

Due to the above chemical conversions, this pill ultimately prevents carbohydrates from entering the bloodstream.

Well, there are a lot of problems with this approach as enzymes are very specific, so having a single one convert different monosacharides into glucose efficiently would probably not be easy (very expensive to design). Enzymes also don't promote reactions in a single direction unless, though I suppose if the second enzyme was depleting glucose concentrations very quickly the reaction would only go one way. Anyways, that second enzyme would have to ery complicated to do all of the reactions that a host of enzymes do within our bodies, and it would probably be insanely expensive to design and produce. Even then, if you had it, you would have to have something that is reduced as you are oxidizing the sugar, and have it oxidized in a controlled manner so that you wouldn't be releasing energy that would destroy the enzyme itself, or cause large amounts of heat to be given off. Ignoring the design problems, which in themselves would make this impossible in the real world, you have to find a way to actually produce this enzyme, store it, and have it somehow survive and work in the varrying conditions of the digestive system, including the massive drop in PH in the stomach, the proteases there, and then the proteases in the small intestines where the bulk of the sugar cleaving enzymes are. Also keep in mind that disachridases like sucrase and lactase are either on the microvilli of enterocytes or secreted by them, and glucose is very quickly absorbed afterwards, so this enzyme would have to act very quickly to prevent absorption. Mind you, even then, you're working with the assumption that enterocytes can't absorb lactic acid in the first place, which I'm unsure of.

As far as complications if it did work, without glucose absorption you would have a lot less water absorption as well, and sodium with it as it travels with glucose. In fact, by cleaving glucose into two molecules, you would have water leave the intestines rather than have it be absorbed. This could lead to diarrhea and dehydration.

Originally Posted by Green Xenon

Pill #2:

This pill is to be consumed with Pill #1 and contains a solution consisting of "drinking" water and KOH. The KOH concentration in this pill is just low-enough to be safe for consumption..

KOH is alkaline and will help neutralize the acidic states caused by ketosis [resulting from absence of carbohydrate in the bloodstream] and lactic acid [resulting from homolactate fermentation]

These pills are to be taken in sufficient amounts before and after eating.

What would be the drawbacks to this anti-obesity therapy?

Err, K+ ions are extremely well controlled, with a very miniscule concentration being found outside of cells. Never-mind drinking a strong base, that therapy could lead to nerve dysfunction, arrhythmia, or even cardiac arrest.


I really don't understand why you are proposing a treatment so complicated when there are far simpler things that could be done, like not ingesting massive amounts of carbs and other calories....

MishaS:

1. In Pill #1, each set contains more than one enzyme for the required chemical reactions. I never said anything about producing one enzyme to perform the activities that would naturally require multiple enzymes.

2. Lactate most likely will be absorbed into the bloodstream -- via the villi/microvilli of the small intestine. The brain can then eventually use this lactate for energy.

3. What if I were to use OH- ions instead of KOH?

Carbohydrate digestion, complex starch to simple sugar, actually starts in the mouth. This can be tested by taking a bite of a bland cracker and holding it in your mouth for 20-30 seconds. You will notice the "dry" starchy taste changing to sweet as the stach chains are broken to simple sugars.

If you are looking for a drastic weight loss technique, have your jaw wired shut. This is the treatment for fractured jaw bones. The teeth are wired together to imobilize the broken jaw. A small gap is allowed for water and liquid nurishment. Theoreticaly you could maintain your weight by drinking high calorie liquids but in practice almost every patient who has this done loses weight.

Originally Posted by Sealeaf

Carbohydrate digestion, complex starch to simple sugar, actually starts in the mouth. This can be tested by taking a bite of a bland cracker and holding it in your mouth for 20-30 seconds. You will notice the "dry" starchy taste changing to sweet as the stach chains are broken to simple sugars.

Carbohydrate *digestion* begins in the mouth, however, carbohydrate *absorption* only occurs in the small intestine. There is a clear difference between "absorption" and "digestion".

yes you are right that the according to the doctors or the practically that carbohydrates always digest in a mouth and similarly absorption in a small intestine.

Simple sugars can be absorbed through the oral mucosa. Diabetics in insulin shock are given glucose under their tongues.

Originally Posted by Green Xenon

Hi:

I'm thinking of a two theoretical pills to help treat obesity.

Pill #1:

This pill contains two sets of anhydrous enzymes that are at the highest concentration possible.

The enzymes in set A convert monosaccharides other than glucose to glucose.

Set B contains enzymes that convert glucose to lactic acid via homolactic-acid fermentation.

Due to the above chemical conversions, this pill ultimately prevents carbohydrates from entering the bloodstream.

Pill #2:

This pill is to be consumed with Pill #1 and contains a solution consisting of "drinking" water and KOH. The KOH concentration in this pill is just low-enough to be safe for consumption..

KOH is alkaline and will help neutralize the acidic states caused by ketosis [resulting from absence of carbohydrate in the bloodstream] and lactic acid [resulting from homolactate fermentation]

These pills are to be taken in sufficient amounts before and after eating.

What would be the drawbacks to this anti-obesity therapy?


Thanks,

GX

I'll be simple on the first thing. This pill changing the bloodchemistry is never a good idea. As it might have more then unforseen side effects. It could cause blood toxicity or even death. I agree more to taking drugs to increase the forfillmenth of the hunger feeling in the brains. Also restraint can help losing weight, and exercise. By my own experience, high cafeine, sugar and taurine with vitamins induce weight loss. Simply drink energy drinks and you will lose weight. But i would go for restraint.