Thread: Time-delay Poisons

Hello
Here there is a subforum dedicated to toxicology, however I would like to post a this intriguing question.

It's about the toxic substances called time-delay poisons or slow poisons. Theoretically they requires only one dose, or few ones, to ruin slowly but surely, the health of the victim.
criminal poisoning forum: cr_po : Criminal Poisoning

¿Micro-particles obtained by filing glass particles, as well as by sanding a piece of fuse wire; could be stored in various organs and / or tissues, resulting in a chronic irritation (in the case of glass), or a chronic toxicity (if the fuse)?

Regarding the fuse wire, in the dictionary says: it is made of lead, or an alloy of lead with tin and copper. Usually called tinned cooper wire fuse

Forgive me for the drafting errors. I had a mishap and was rushed.

Is there a question here?

Typically, ingested bio active material acts as soon as it gets into the body's circulation. Slow acting meds generally are made so by being in slow disolving types of pills. Ingesting metalic lead would produce lead poisoning only as fast as the lead was changed into soluable compounds by digestive processes. That is a slow process and the lead might pass through the intesyine before it could be digested. Lead poisoning with a compound of lead like "white lead" paint pigment is more bioactive and dangerous.

Originally Posted by Sealeaf

Slow acting meds generally are made so by being in slow disolving types of pills

Maybe the fuse's micro-particles could remain stored in some tissues and/or organs, from which they could be slowly absorved into the circulation.

See the definition of depot by the Mosby's Medical Dictionary, 8th edition. 2009:
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/depot
depot
[dē′pō, dep′ō]
Etymology: Fr, depository
1 n, any area of the body in which drugs or other substances such as fat are stored and from which they can be distributed.
2 adj, (of a drug) injected or implanted to be slowly absorbed into the circulation.
Mosby's Medical Dictionary, 8th edition. © 2009, Elsevier.


depot [de´po, dep´o]
a body area in which a substance, e.g., a drug, can be accumulated, deposited, or stored and from which it can be distributed.
fat depot a site in the body in which large quantities of fat are stored, as in adipose tissue.
Miller-Keane Encyclopedia and Dictionary of Medicine, Nursing, and Allied Health, Seventh Edition. © 2003 by Saunders, an imprint of Elsevier, Inc. All rights reserved.

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But, there is any knowed poison(s) capable to ruin slowly the victim's health; in only one or two doses? Slow Poisons exists?
e.g. to produce dementia...
There are speculations about Slow Poisons surrounding the Borgia Family.

From: criminal poisoning newsgroup cr_po : Criminal Poisoning:
Re: [cr_po] time delay poisons
Most heavy metals if applied in drink or absorbed through skin will slowly build up, but are detectable to a good ME. If you are looking for a sure thing but random make the person a heart attack patent then slip a sugar pill in for the nitro. More then this I do not know
----- Original Message -----
From:jsmithron
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 3:42 AM

There are examples of ''Time-Delay'' Medicines:

Haloperidol Depot Injection: Your doctor or nurse will inject haloperidol depot deep into a muscle. A single dose will normally last for one month. [h=2]Depot injection[/h]A depot injection is an injection, usually subcutaneous or intramuscular, of a pharmacological agent which releases its active compound in a consistent way over a long period of time. Depot injections are usually either solid or oil-based. Depot injections may be available as certain forms of a drug, such as decanoate salts or esters. Examples of depot injections include Depo Provera (anti-conceptive) and haloperidol decanoate. Prostate cancer patients receiving hormone therapy usually get depot injections as a treatment or therapy. Zoladex is an example of a depot delivered medication for prostate cancer treatment or therapy. The advantages of using a long-acting depot injection include increased medication compliance due to reduction in the frequency of dosing, as well as more consistent serum concentrations. A significant disadvantage is that the drug is not immediately reversible, since it is slowly released. In Psychiatric Nursing, a short acting depot, zuclopenthixol acetate (Clopixol Acuphase), which lasts in the system anything from 24 – 72 hours, is now more regularly used for rapid tranquillisation. Modecate Fluphenazine decanoate up to 100 milligrams 1 injection every 2 to 5 weeks according to response and severity of condition Depixol Flupenthixol decanoate up to 400 milligrams 1 injection every 2 to 4 weeks according to response and severity of condition Haldol Haloperidol decanoate up to 300 milligrams 1 injection every 2 to 4 weeks according to response and severity of condition Piportil Pipothiazine palmitate up to 200 milligrams 1 injection every 4 weeks Clopixol Zuclopenthixol Decanoate up to 600 milligrams 1 injection every1 to 4 weeks Risperdal Consta Risperidone up to 50 milligrams 1 injection every 2 weeks

And virtually any medication is toxic in excessive doses. It would appear, therefore, that you have answered your own question.

Hopefully this does not imply you have some nefarious plan to demonstrate the idea in real life.

Originally Posted by Arthur Angler

And virtually any medication is toxic in excessive doses. It would appear, therefore, that you have answered your own question.

No. I did't. Munchausen By Proxy poisoners usually put medicines in meals. Googling i didn't find anything about Slow Poisons or Time-Delay Poisons. Sad!.

Hopefully this does not imply you have some nefarious plan to demonstrate the idea in real life

My interest is focused on prevention (surveyllance cameras with motion-detection, sensors,..etc).
Due to my ethics, i refuse to discuss on 'ideal' poisons; Slow Poisons constitutes an exception, because are located at the Science Frontier, you cant find any information about them, even in the profuse book Criminal Poisoning writed by John Trestrail.

I have no nefarious plan.
Education is a two edge sword. The less i discuss on criminal poisoning, the more chances poisoners have to use unknowed methods.

John H. Trestrail and A. E. Westveer del FBI, reported 347 cases of homicidal poisoning, during the decade of 1990-1999, in EEUU. Or 35 cases per year, or 2.8 cases per month, for a population of 300'000,000 inhabitantes. Source: Criminal Poisoning: Clinical and Forensic Perspectives: Christopher P. Holstege, Thomas Neer, Gregory B. Saathoff.
This wasn't a good sign for the future!

Bibliography:
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Jeffreys J.G. A conspiracy of poisons 2002.
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Bolitho. Murder for Profit.
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Altick R.D. Murders and manners in the age of Victoria.

Exotic:
Duncklemeyer E. Rare forms of criminal administration of poison.

Mawson D. delussions of poisoning.
Farrell M. Encyclopedia of Homicidal Poisoning.
Goulding R. Poisonig as a Fine Art.
Osius T.G. The Historic Art of Poisoning.
Morton Satin. Death in the Pot: The Impact of Food Poisoning on History.
Piga A. History of Borgias: Poisoners.
Enrique Trogal. El Catador de Venenos.
Guillaume de Apollinaire. La Roma de los Borgia.

Simon R.I. Murder masquerading as a suicide.
McCrary G.O. The unknown darkness: profiling the predators among us.
Costello L.S. The Queen's Poisoner.

this type of medicine is very effective for the humans.you please don't take these medicines because that its damage your tissues of your hands and also legs.its really a poison don't drink it...leave this medicine.

Does anyone know anything about the Chinese 'vibrating hand'? This is supposed to be an ancient poison that takes one dose and two years to work. Sounds impossible, but I'd like to know if the info I found is true or not.