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Thread: Lyme Disease, a bioengineered weapon?

  1. #1 Lyme Disease, a bioengineered weapon? 
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    I have long thought it very suspicious that Lyme disease first appeared in Lyme Connecticut just a short distance from the U S Army's WW II germ warfare labs on Plum Island NY. Recently an acquaintance told me that records had been found that infected deer on Plum Island had jumped the 8 foot high fence of their enclosure and "disappeared" during WW II. Can anyone confirm this? That white tail deer can jump higher than that I can redly believe. I witnessed a big doe leap completely across a 2 lane black top road without touching the tarmac. I don't know how high she was but the jump was about 30 feet in length. Also these mammals are accomplished swimmers and can easily swim more than 10 miles of open ocean.


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    Have you read the "History" section of the Wikipedia article on Lyme Disease? If accurate, that brief history would suggest that Lyme disease is considerably older than the WWII era. I don't know anything about the deer story, however.


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    An acquaintance told me - now there's a reputable source of information. Suggest you look in area 51.
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    I don't doubt that the bacteria have existed for a long time. But something changed radically about how those bacteria behave. The change turned them into a significant problem. Doing just that with existing bacterial agents is called "weaponization" and it is what germ warfare labs do. They find a promising natural agent and "tweek" it to make it more virulent, more easily spread, or more resistant to treatment. That change occurred in the area of southern New England/Long Island NY. It happened sometime during or after WWII. It just so happens that Plum Island is a small island off the eastern end of Long Island with a big germ warfare lab on it. Oh and the "acquaintance" was a fellow health care professional. I personally helped care for another victim of another US Army weaponized disease developed during WWII. He had picked it up as a lab tech in a facility in Maryland. Luckily there are no native vectors to spread that one.
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    Rumor from an unidentified fellow health care worker (Jimmy Hoffa?), an unverified and irrelevant claim on your part to treating someone suffering from an undisclosed disease acquired > 60 years past(as if that validates anything here), and your amateur and shallow consideration of bacteial pathogenesis and epidemiology. Thst said, thanks much for the observation that bacteria have existed for s "long time" - that is indeed a bit of news.
    Rather than sophomoric conspiracy theories - tell us what and how the relevant genome correlates to pathology and transmission, that this sequence never existed before in context, and some factual information re its origin.
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  7. #6  
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    Jorge, if you will note all I asked for was confirmation of the escaped deer part of the story. The epidimology is part of the public record. The appearence of Lyme disease and its spread across the US is documented in the relavent journals. If you want genome data look it up.

    I am certainly not going to name names. I love my country but I don't trust individuals with big expencive secrets to keep.

    I mention treating the Doctor who had been a labtech in the Maryland lab only as an example of the lack of adequate precautions in those labs. The disease he had aquired was Malta fever, also called relapsing fever. In the 1970's he broke his arm and was hospitalized at the hospital I worked at. In the middle of the night he was subject to deblitating fever and chills and literally soaked his bed linins with sweat, for several nights in a row. 30 years after contracting the disease it took only the minor stress of a, properly cared for, simple fx to put him in major distress. This is way beyond the normal course of malta fever. The increased longevity and virulence is an example of what "weaponization" is about. The physician himself is my source for the above narrative.
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    Confirmation of your childish conspiracy theory supported by nothing - from the various and anonymous folks on an internet chat board? Guess you have your answer for what it's worth - no confirmationand from a microbiologist familiar with the subject, rejection. And I really enjoyed that ou love your country - I hope all of us do but that is as irrelevant as the rest of your supporting coments.
    If you're serious, try something of substance.
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  9. #8  
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    Jorge, sounds like you have a lot more invested in this than I do. What branch of the government did you say you worked for?
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  10. #9  
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    Love the conspiracy wackos.
    I understand you know little of microbiology and even less of bioloigcal warfare agents but let me try to help you. An agent that requires a deer tick as a vector from a wild anima,has relatively limited infectivity and no to very little immediate effect - is not a biological warfare agent.
    Understand?
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge1907 View Post
    Love the conspiracy wackos.
    I understand you know little of microbiology and even less of bioloigcal warfare agents but let me try to help you. An agent that requires a deer tick as a vector from a wild anima,has relatively limited infectivity and no to very little immediate effect - is not a biological warfare agent.
    Understand?
    I grant it is not an effective bio warfare agent. But I can see it being one that looked promising. I never even suggested that it was a finished product or a deployed weapon. Just a research project that got loose.

    The deer ticks bite anyone who is in the woods. I have been bitten while gathering fire wood. So soldiers on manuvers would not be able to avoid them. The resevoir of the agent is in mice which are just everywhere. The deer provide a vector that is highly mobile and secretive in its movements. Further the disease involved requieres antibiotics to cure or prevent and which is more dibilative than fatal. The ideal bio warfare agent is one that primarily effects military personel, requires the use of militarily strategic supplies to control and causes a debilitating illness rather than death. Sick people have to be treated, dead ones just need to be buried. Delayed effect is a plus not a minus. The main problem with Lyme as a bio agent is that it is not quite nasty enough. Though if untreated it can be pretty nasty.

    I compleatly agree that lyme is a very poor tactical weapon but it could have easily been a failed strategic one. Heck the US Army had actual plans to raise bats and launch them toward Japan with tiny incendiary bombs attached to them. Really, look it up, its in the open record. That is much wierder than Lymes.
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  12. #11  
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    The thing is you have not shown that the Plum Island assertions are anything more then just fearmongering and urban legend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealeaf View Post
    I grant it is not an effective bio warfare agent. But I can see it being one that looked promising. I never even suggested that it was a finished product or a deployed weapon. Just a research project that got loose.

    The deer ticks bite anyone who is in the woods. I have been bitten while gathering fire wood. So soldiers on manuvers would not be able to avoid them. The resevoir of the agent is in mice which are just everywhere. The deer provide a vector that is highly mobile and secretive in its movements. Further the disease involved requieres antibiotics to cure or prevent and which is more dibilative than fatal. The ideal bio warfare agent is one that primarily effects military personel, requires the use of militarily strategic supplies to control and causes a debilitating illness rather than death. Sick people have to be treated, dead ones just need to be buried. Delayed effect is a plus not a minus. The main problem with Lyme as a bio agent is that it is not quite nasty enough. Though if untreated it can be pretty nasty.

    I compleatly agree that lyme is a very poor tactical weapon but it could have easily been a failed strategic one. Heck the US Army had actual plans to raise bats and launch them toward Japan with tiny incendiary bombs attached to them. Really, look it up, its in the open record. That is much wierder than Lymes.
    It's still nonsense, first of all how do you explain the fact that Lyme disease is caused by different, though related, bacteria in Europe and North America? Did the US military also engineer that one? What about the fact that Borrelia DNA has been found in the remains of animals and humans several hundred years old. All this based on proximity to a US veterinary lab that works on cow pathogens, and has never actually been associated with weapons research.
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    The thing requires both particular kinds of deer, particular kinds of mice, and particular kinds of ticks, to spread. It has spread apparently in concert with concurrently booming populations of those three animals - due to landscape changes and fire suppression, probably.

    Who would have been the targets of such a weapon?
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  15. #14  
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    Ok, I give up on this one.
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