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Thread: Diatomaceous earth, food grade, is this really so good , or dangerous ?

  1. #1 Diatomaceous earth, food grade, is this really so good , or dangerous ? 
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    Diatomaceous earth, food grade, is this really so good , or dangerous ? My doctor, and all the pharmacists I've talked to say, " DO NOT EAT Diatomaceous earth, you will harm yourself. " All the web says it cures artheritis, clogged arteries, high blood-pressure, high cholesteral, intestinal problems, and any parasites ( internal or external ). It is approved for animals, and is the anti-caking agent in flour, plus annihilating meal worms; therefore, we are already eating it.
    " Food grade diatomaceous earth is EPA approved to be mixed with grains to control mealworms and other pests and has been exempted from tolerance requirements as an inert, inactive ingredient in chemical pesticides. Diatomaceous earth is EPA approved against indoor and outdoor crawling insects. Diatomaceous earth is USDA approved as an anti-caking agent for flour and animal feed. Diatomaceous earth is FDA approved for internal and external use and has a rating of Food Chemical Codex Grade. ", is the common web description, adding humans should consume a spoonful a day. IN REALITY, the stuff is dangerous to handle without gloves ( due to dehidration ), is dangerous to inhale when handling, and I suspect caused me to get a sore throat and diarrhea ( I did mix it with pleanty of water ). The question is, " WHAT COULD GO WRONG ? " ( side effects ) of ingesting diatoms. I do feel it helped my back-aches, but this could be a coincidence. Furthermore, I wonder if mixing Diatomaceous earth with nopalea cactus could be a wonder drug ? ... my doctor says " NO ! ".


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  3. #2  
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    Diatoms are microscopic algae with skeletons made of silica, which is chemically the same as sand.
    I would expect that breathing the dust would be unhealthy, but ingesting it would be harmless. Also pointless.

    There are no nutrients in silica, and unlike clays, it does not absorb toxins. Eating the stuff would be unlikely to hurt you if it was in small quantities, but why would you want to?


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    Yes. I don't think it will have any significant effects. Don't believe supplement companies. They aren't regulated, so they can make whatever claims they want without any evidence to back them up.
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    It's cheap, why not try it? If anything bad was happening, these folks selling it would be getting sued.
    The only way to know that the ones you have trusted are dead wrong and limited in their views is to be brave and try different things.
    Humans are usually dead wrong about many things.
    You can't have freedom without risk - why not use the freedom you briefly have?
    If you don't like it, stop using it. Pretty simple.
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by crantic View Post
    It's cheap, why not try it? If anything bad was happening, these folks selling it would be getting sued.
    The only way to know that the ones you have trusted are dead wrong and limited in their views is to be brave and try different things.
    Humans are usually dead wrong about many things.
    You can't have freedom without risk - why not use the freedom you briefly have?
    If you don't like it, stop using it. Pretty simple.
    The thing is its not going to do anything beneficial. As Skeptic already noted, its just silica. Eating sand isn't going to benefit you, and neither will Diatoms.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    It's cheap, why not try it? If anything bad was happening, these folks selling it would be getting sued.
    Even cheaper to sneak a handful of the contents of the kids' sandpit.

    Costs nothing and we know it doesn't hurt toddlers.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    The thing is its not going to do anything beneficial. As Skeptic already noted, its just silica. Eating sand isn't going to benefit you, and neither will Diatoms.
    It is silica with an extensive surface area for its mass. It is silica with internal porosity. There is the possibility of interesting surface chemistry effects.
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    Hmm, fair point John. Though i dont know of any studies that have turned up anything along those lines so far.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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    Just how does this stuff kill insects? If it kills insects why do you assume it is going to be good for you? More likely it is going to be bad for you for the same reasons it is bad for bugs.
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    The hollow silica shell absorbs the moisture from the insects, which given the size range of most insects, is lethal. Human/diatom ration is much greater and thus you would have to inject a massive amount to have notable desiccation.
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    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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  12. #11 average DE is bout 80% Amorphous (non crystalline) Silica, from a living organic source 
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    We absorb very little minerals from most inorganic mineral sources (like sand, non organic rocks,etc.) , but we do absorb a significant amount of minerals from organic sources, especially plant based. Comparing diatom fossils to sand as far as bio available or soluble silica is concerned, is inaccurate.

    "Chemical methods to determine the crystalline content in silica have been reviewed (6). These are based on the solubility of amorphous silica in a variety of solvents, acids, or bases, with respect to relatively inert crystalline silica, and include differences in reactivity in high temperature fusions with strong bases." excerpted from this link

    www.scribd.com/doc/30130738/Silica-Amorphous


    Fortunately for the consumer "cost wise" DE IS non-patentable. Unfortunately because of this, it is going to be hard to find the money for extensive double blind studies, etc. to "prove" it's health benifets.

    The next link has clear information including testing and studies indicating it may be beneficial to humans and mammals.

    Diatomite Canada.com - Diatomaceous Earth :: Products :: Fossil Shell Flour for People :: The Silica Connection


    The particular DE that is considered the best for food use in the U.S. Comes from an extremely pure fresh water deposit of the diatom Melosira Preicelanica. There are over 600 DE deposits in the US only 4 are considered "food grade. Only one of these deposits are almost all Melosira Preicelanica diatoms, which have a consistent tubular shape with a very porus, micro abrasive wall and can absorb 1 /12 times it weight. The shape and porosity of this particular diatom dramatically increases it's benefits for consumption by humans and animals.
    Last edited by Craigar; August 4th, 2012 at 06:12 AM. Reason: clarity, easier to read
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    http://www.bugging-out.com/files/may...us_article.pdf

    "Inert dusts kill insects by desiccation.
    They desiccate not by absorbing water, but
    by removing by abrasion or absorption the
    outer layer of wax or grease that is part of an
    insect’s exoskeleton. Due to its highly porous
    nature, DE is one of the most effective of all
    natural inert dusts. It absorbs waxy fats and
    oils (lipids) from the epicuticle (skin) of insects
    and other invertebrate pests. Once the waxy,
    oily coating is removed, the insect cannot
    retain water and dies due to dehydration.
    Partial water loss makes them thirsty, but
    most insects die when about 60 percent of
    their water is lost. Silica gel and fumed silica
    are synthetic amorphous silicas (SiO2) that
    TECHNOLOGY SPOTLIGHT
    also kill insects in this way (Ebeling 1961;
    Ebeling 1971)."
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  14. #13 Don't "inject" diatoms, "ingest" them, thats OK and safe 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    The hollow silica shell absorbs the moisture from the insects, which given the size range of most insects, is lethal. Human/diatom ration is much greater and thus you would have to inject a massive amount to have notable desiccation.
    I hope no one ever "injects" any diatomacious earth, I imagine it would AT LEAST definitely get stuck in capillaries, etc. I think you meant to say "ingest". Also it doesn't kill insects by absorbing their water/ moisture. Please see my article from August 4th, 2012, 03:39 AM in this thread for an accurate explanation of why it cause an insect to dehydrate. It does not have the same effect on an animal or human.
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  15. #14 Family friends claim multiple benefits from food grade DE consumption 
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    Hi All,

    Im an information junkie and just LOVE LOVE LOVE this science forum!!!!

    I am actually on here to see if anyone knows anything more about the human consumption of diatomaceous earth (melosira diatom) food grade. I have very close family friends who take food grade DE daily and have done for years!!! They have told me that it has helped them with numerous issues and has had no negative health effects on them. Am hoping to gain a little more information and perhaps some personal experiences with DE.

    It is claimed that food grade DE, when consumed, pierces the shell of parasites and nasties inside the body, causing them to dehydrate and die. My family friends take it regularly as a treatment for worms. They have told me that since ingesting the product, their hair, skin and nails appear much healthier and smoother. Others (on the web) claim it helps with skin imperfections, IBS and arthritis, just to name a few.

    I wouldn't eat a handful of sand (deliberately) however, I would certainly like to give this a go. Especially on my cats (external for fleas) and kids (in their hair to kill nits), for all other treatments I have tried are expensive and I am finding the cheeky little blood suckers have built up an immunity to all the products I have used previously.

    Im not here looking for approval to take it, just hoping someone may know a friend of a friends 2nd cousins girlfriends mum, who can shed some light (positive or negative) on their experience with ingesting DE.

    To the guy who got a sore throat and a runny bum, perhaps the DE in a smoothie would be less irritating on the throat and maybe the runny bum was the DE detoxing your body? I know when I do a liver cleanse, the bum is runny for days. Just saying

    TIA
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    If you want to kill lice and nits in children's hair, dry products are not the way to go. You can try and suffocate the little horrors with lots and lots and ***lots*** of hair conditioner (maybe mixed with some vegetable oil). You need to slather it on in handfuls and massage it thoroughly through the hair and scalp and leave it for quite a while to deprive them of air. (Cover with a shower cap or some other plastic air excluding material.) Economising on it at this point defeats the purpose.

    Unfortunately there is no way to avoid combing the nits out. But having a lot of conditioner in the hair can make the process a bit easier on the children.

    (I'd take that stuff about diatomaceous earth piercing and dehydrating internal parasites with a very large pinch of salt. Very large.)
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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  17. #16  
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    Originally I was led to this topic by Google while looking for info. on inhaling DE, but since legsavenue80's post I thought I would reply with some things I've observed and know.

    There have been very little scientific -- as in, laboratory -- studies done on the purported effects of D.E. so based on the claims some of my relatives have made I decided to do my own experiments to see how it holds up. I have not yet confirmed anything on internal parasites (it takes at least 90 days to make that determination, and I'm in the middle of testing that on cats, dogs, horses, and people, which I will have blood tests and fecal exams to go by).

    As for consuming it for health benefits, the sharp edges of D.E. particles are meant to "scrub" the intestinal lining so that nutrients can be better absorbed, therefore improving noticeable qualities like skin and hair, weight loss from feeling full and eating less, and increased energy. I've observed all of these in only my cats, not anything else, and since taking it myself I haven't felt very good at all. I'm not suggesting its the D.E., as I have been in a bit of a stressful slump, so I'm still giving it time to see if anything comes about. I've read a ton of reviews from others who says that it has all of these great benefits and have records to support it (such as cholesterol reduction and improving blood pressure) but I personally am just not seeing anything -- though over all I'm not an unhealthy individual.

    I started taking it at 1tbs the first day and didn't experience any adverse effects. It's a bit tough to drink because it is so chalky, so I put it in chalky drinks like Boost or a protein shake and you can't even notice it. V8 works too. Drinking it in a really thin liquid isn't very comfortable, and it doesn't stay mixed up very well so you either have to drink it quickly or stir it continuously.

    Fleas, and other insects, do build up resistance to chemical pesticides so the use of a natural product like this will prevent any type of immunity. Fleas are tough to kill, but it will repel them (and any other insect) almost instantly. I tested fleas in an enclosed area with D.E. and it took over six hours before they were slowed down at all, and twelve hours or more before death occurred. When I would put them in small concentrations of D.E. they would scramble for their lives to get away from it. Also tried with ants and flies with great success. A sprinkle here or there, and they're gone. I put it in the coats of two dogs that were tormented by fleas, where numerous chemical (and even organic and natural) products did not help, and noticed results within the day.

    Death is not immediate to any insect, but it will repel them in a flash. So if you're wanting to give it a go with the nit problem, go for it, it'll probably work. It works while wet too, so mixing it with water in a spray bottle so that it adheres to a surface will be just as effective.

    I haven't observed anything on the microscopic level, but most claims appear to hold true.
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    I mixed s good portion of the coral with conditioner and applied it to my sons scalp after shaving his head. He had quite a number of them!! I left it on and the next day they were gone. Dead. I give it to my cats in their wet food very night and I take a teaspoon in a thick small cup of juice in the morning. It definitely helps me feel less sluggish. I notice the difference when I don't take it. Thanks for the feed back and I will keep everyone posted on the effects 😶
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  19. #18 Diatomaceous Earth 
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    Brought some bed bugs home from the laundromat. Freaked out. Went online. Found D.E. gets rid of them, and other arthropods. Also came across people saying it did wonders for the overall health. No lie, I though they were nut jobs. So I did more reading, and wound up here. Bottom line first time I tried D.E. only went with half a teaspoon(tsp.). Ha! With no immediate ill affect, I up the dosage to to a full tsp. Again no ill affect. Within two days I had made it up to a heaping tablespoon. Within a week my should problem which had been dogging me for a few months was gone. Getting up in the morning seems to be easier a lot easier. Soreness that you get from workouts seems to be minimized causing me to work out with more frequency. Just getting back into it to. Basically makes me feel like I've got an oil change. If that makes any sense.
    Last edited by Salmon; December 22nd, 2012 at 11:50 PM. Reason: grammaticle
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    Nice. Great info!
    Last edited by Salmon; December 23rd, 2012 at 12:07 AM. Reason: Meant this to be a reply Ahh well
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    See, Im very skeptical of claims like less soreness after a workout given that the nature of diatomaceous earth means its going to pass though the digestive systems and out hte other end with no interaction with any muscles. The soreness after a workout is due to lactic acid build up and minute muscle tears. nether would be affected by ingestion of diatomaceous earth.
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  22. #21 Totally agree 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    See, Im very skeptical of claims like less soreness after a workout given that the nature of diatomaceous earth means its going to pass though the digestive systems and out hte other end with no interaction with any muscles. The soreness after a workout is due to lactic acid build up and minute muscle tears. nether would be affected by ingestion of diatomaceous earth.
    Nobody's forcing you to try it. All's I can say is my messed up shoulder, I was unable to snap out a quick strong side right jab, like lighting. With in a week I could. If it don't leave the D.T. then thats where it's happening. Other aches and pains of a 38yr. old that I though were with me forever and that they were just going to get worse from here on out. Hand stiffness from guitar playing, 25% of the cartilage left on right knee cap, radial head fracture right elbow this past summer 6-26-12 or there abouts. That one came with a fractured right side rib as well, so much for mountain biking being a leisurely activity. Ha! I do notice that drinking alot of water like a gallon a day seems to satisfy that strange hunger craving I get. I could eat a bacon cheeseburger with fries and a coke, and still feel like I missed something. If I drink water I almost don't even get hungry. I get tiered before I get hungry. Like a blood sugar level thing, so I started snacking on trail mix or some peasant bread type of snacks. Cereal too. Banana shakes for breakfast have moved up to lunch, cause I like the way diatomaceous earth sets off the rest of my day.
    But that's just my experience with it. Total game changer. Huge fan of raw unfiltered apple cider vinegar for killing those sore throat common cold type of things. Although I drink it every day not just when I'm feeling ill or about to.
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    D.e is an innert silica glass, it physically cant have affected the muscle/bone structure of your shoulder, as it basically passes through you and helps to clean out the digestive tract. It sounds like your having placebo effects from the d.e.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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    *We absorb very little minerals from most inorganic mineral sources (like sand, non organic rocks,etc.) , but we do absorb a significant amount of minerals from organic sources, especially plant based. Comparing diatom fossils to sand as far as bio available or soluble silica is concerned, is inaccurate.- Quoted from another user above.
    *Surface Chemistry could be taking place in some as yet unknown way.-Brought up by another user above.
    Something is taking place, for me it's the closest thing to the fountain of youth that there is, and I wasn't even looking for it. I needed to get rid of bed bugs!
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    Diatomatious earth is fossil diatom shells. The shells are composed of silica, which is not absorbed by humans due to the insoluble nature of the silica structure. Show me the double blind studies that link eating the silica to restructuring or muscle regrowth that would accompany the changes you are attributing to it.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    Yeah I hear you, and I've enjoyed this discourse. An unexpected pleasure in my night, for sure. Now I'm going to go to work on that heavy bag.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
    Yeah I hear you, and I've enjoyed this discourse. An unexpected pleasure in my night, for sure. Now I'm going to go to work on that heavy bag.
    Translation: "La La La La Laaaaa! Can't heeear you!"
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    The shells of diatoms are made of Biogenic silica (BSi), also referred to as opal, biogenic opal, or amorphous opaline silica, forms one of the most widespread biogenic minerals. Silica is an amorphous metal oxide formed by complex inorganicpolymerization processes. This is opposed to the other major biogenic minerals, comprising carbonateand phosphate, which occur in nature as crystalline iono-covalent solids (e.g. salts) whose precipitation is dictated by solubility equilibria.[1] Chemically, BSi ishydrated silica (SiO2nH2O), which is essential to many plants and animals.-Wikipedia
    It's not just sand. It's not just silca, and we might be one of those animals.

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    It is just silica. There are no known medical benefits to ingesting it, however, you get plenty of it in any vegetables you eat and the rest is filtered out and leaves the body through the urine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
    The shells of diatoms are made of Biogenic silica (BSi), also referred to as opal, biogenic opal, or amorphous opaline silica, forms one of the most widespread biogenic minerals. Silica is an amorphous metal oxide formed by complex inorganicpolymerization processes. This is opposed to the other major biogenic minerals, comprising carbonateand phosphate, which occur in nature as crystalline iono-covalent solids (e.g. salts) whose precipitation is dictated by solubility equilibria.[1] Chemically, BSi ishydrated silica (SiO2nH2O), which is essential to many plants and animals.-Wikipedia
    It's not just sand. It's not just silca, and we might be one of those animals.

    Links the the wikipages of random terms does not actually prove your assertion. Diatomatceous earth is still a silica form that is not absorb-able by the body.
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  31. #30 Absorbtion? 
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    While on its pathway through the various routes that come to the urine tract, perhaps it's somehow cleaning them out? Heaping tablespoon dosages once daily for me.
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    Hey, it's your money.
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    30$ for 50lbs of food grade diatomaceous earth. At a tablespoon a day, plus I don't have bed bugs anymore or a crippled up shoulder. Yeah Bay-Be! BAMM!
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    Well, I'm glad it's working out for ya Now, if you prove it can do something with fleas...
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    It does work on fleas. :-) How bad are they? (I work in a holistic pet store for my day job and diatomateous earth is one of the first things we recommend for Fleas)
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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  36. #35  
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    I eat German Cockroaches to heal cancer....Dude...It totally works.
    Fixin' shit that ain't broke.
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  37. #36 There are many benfits 
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    I will say that as a certified nutritional consultant, personal trainer, and being in the natural health industry for 16 years. Ther are many benefits to taking this supplement. I have gotten hundreds of testimonies on the benefits people have recieved from taking diatomaceous earth....from better digestion to sports injuries dissappearring and more. At work at the moment but I will be happy to break down the many benefits of taking it as a supplement. First off it is predominantly silica which is the main ingredient in collagen. Collagen is the most abundant thing in the body besides water. And since we have been very deficient in silica since they started industrializing food and thjrowing our silica away it is very important to replace the silica in the body. more later gtg....
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  38. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunKiHealth View Post
    First off it is predominantly silica which is the main ingredient in collagen.
    Er, maybe you need to go back and study some more. Collagen is a protein; as such, the main ingredients are amino acids and therefore the main elements are carbon, hydrogen oxygen and nitrogen. I am not aware of any amino acids that contain silicon.

    Bodily tissues can contain up to 100 parts per million (0.01%, not exactly the "main ingredient") of silicon.

    On the basis of the data presented, the Panel concludes that a cause and effect relationship has not been established between the consumption of silicon and contribution to normal formation of collagen or connective tissue.
    EFSA - Scientific Opinion of the NDA Panel: Silicon related health claims

    Although, to be fair, it is possible that trace amounts of silicon are required for the body to synthesize collagen and some other proteins. You would get this from a normal diet (wheat is particularly rich in silicon). You will not get any significant amount from ingesting silica (note how well sand dissolves in water, for example).

    Collagen is the most abundant thing in the body besides water.
    That sounds implausible. It makes up about 25% to 35% of the whole-body protein content according to Wikipedia.

    And since we have been very deficient in silica since they started industrializing food and thjrowing our silica away it is very important to replace the silica in the body.
    Huh? "Throwing our silica away". Riiiight.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Diatomaceous earth is very dusty so just like all dust, you should not inhale a bunch of it. A large amount of dust in the lungs is never a good thing, no matter what the source is. Food grade DE is not dangerous in itself, just dusty.

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    YES!! I have used it for years with no ill effects. I also have friends that have used it on their dogs and cats (inside and out) for parasites and it worked wonders (also, take into mind that cats are VERY sensitive to many substances and chemicals, and it has yet not hurt any of my friend's cats. In fact, they even look healthier. It also killed some parasites in myself once, quite effectively and quickly. MUCH safer than the nasty medications they give you for parasitic infection).

    I MUST STATE SOMETHING HERE THOUGH: I have yet to read someone on this thread explain the difference between the two dio. earths! THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE! There is the heat treated type commercial grade (with 1,000 degree temp), used for pool filters and other filtering uses, and then there is the FOOD GRADE (NON-heat treated) which is the ONLY type safe for human and animal consumption. The following is an excerpt from another website of the definition of the difference (which M-A-N-Y people seem to get mixed up, giving D.E. a bad name. This 'could' be the reason why many doctors and nurses always say "don't eat it", because they are not familiar with the differences. ONLY the food grade type is recognized by the FDA and EPA as safe. It's even added to commercial flour to prevent flour bugs).
    So here's the excerpt:


    "I have heard DE is dangerous--especially breathing it in.
    Food Grade DE often gets confused with filter grade DE. Filter grade DE starts out as food grade, but it is heated to about 1000 degrees and chemicals are added to crystallize it. This works great for filtering but is dangerous to people and animals. Breathing the crystallized product in over long periods of time causes a disease called silicoses. The world health org. has said that DE needs to be less than 2% crystalline silica in order to be considered safe. The filter grade DE is 60% crystalline!! -- Stay away from it --- it is dangerous!! Perma-Guards food grade DE on the other hand is less than .50% crystalline silica. As you can see, that is more than 4 times less than it needs to be to be considered safe! Daily use of Food Grade DE for people, pets and around the garden is perfectly safe. Food Grade DE should be treated like any other dusty product, if you are going to breath it in over long periods of time, wear a dust mask ---- but it should in no way be compared to the dangerous crystallized filter grade."
    "How can something that kills bugs be safe for me and my pets?
    Remember--Diatomaceous Earth kills insects by PHYSICAL action---not chemical. Hundreds of the microscopic DE get all over the insects body. As the insects move, the DE scratches the waxy coating off of them and they dehydrate and die. Because the DE particle is so small--it has no harm to people and pets. It is a simple mineral---silica."
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    In response to neverfly
    "It is just silica. There are no known medical benefits to ingesting it, however, you get plenty of it in any vegetables you eat and the rest is filtered out and leaves the body through the urine."






    With all due respect, that would be a wrong assumption, it has a very valid use as an anti-parasitic substance. It kills parasites in the body quickly and efficiently, without side effects. But it MUST only be the food grade type used.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
    Brought some bed bugs home from the laundromat. Freaked out. Went online. Found D.E. gets rid of them, and other arthropods. Also came across people saying it did wonders for the overall health. No lie, I though they were nut jobs. So I did more reading, and wound up here. Bottom line first time I tried D.E. only went with half a teaspoon(tsp.). Ha! With no immediate ill affect, I up the dosage to to a full tsp. Again no ill affect. Within two days I had made it up to a heaping tablespoon. Within a week my should problem which had been dogging me for a few months was gone. Getting up in the morning seems to be easier a lot easier. Soreness that you get from workouts seems to be minimized causing me to work out with more frequency. Just getting back into it to. Basically makes me feel like I've got an oil change. If that makes any sense.
    Did it get rid of the bed bugs? I've read repeatedly it works, and I've never gotten them, but am freaked out by how easily you CAN get them, so I'm always 'on alert'. So did it work for you and if so, how long did it take to eradicate them??
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBK View Post
    Originally I was led to this topic by Google while looking for info. on inhaling DE, but since legsavenue80's post I thought I would reply with some things I've observed and know.

    There have been very little scientific -- as in, laboratory -- studies done on the purported effects of D.E. so based on the claims some of my relatives have made I decided to do my own experiments to see how it holds up. I have not yet confirmed anything on internal parasites (it takes at least 90 days to make that determination, and I'm in the middle of testing that on cats, dogs, horses, and people, which I will have blood tests and fecal exams to go by).

    As for consuming it for health benefits, the sharp edges of D.E. particles are meant to "scrub" the intestinal lining so that nutrients can be better absorbed, therefore improving noticeable qualities like skin and hair, weight loss from feeling full and eating less, and increased energy. I've observed all of these in only my cats, not anything else, and since taking it myself I haven't felt very good at all. I'm not suggesting its the D.E., as I have been in a bit of a stressful slump, so I'm still giving it time to see if anything comes about. I've read a ton of reviews from others who says that it has all of these great benefits and have records to support it (such as cholesterol reduction and improving blood pressure) but I personally am just not seeing anything -- though over all I'm not an unhealthy individual.

    I started taking it at 1tbs the first day and didn't experience any adverse effects. It's a bit tough to drink because it is so chalky, so I put it in chalky drinks like Boost or a protein shake and you can't even notice it. V8 works too. Drinking it in a really thin liquid isn't very comfortable, and it doesn't stay mixed up very well so you either have to drink it quickly or stir it continuously.

    Fleas, and other insects, do build up resistance to chemical pesticides so the use of a natural product like this will prevent any type of immunity. Fleas are tough to kill, but it will repel them (and any other insect) almost instantly. I tested fleas in an enclosed area with D.E. and it took over six hours before they were slowed down at all, and twelve hours or more before death occurred. When I would put them in small concentrations of D.E. they would scramble for their lives to get away from it. Also tried with ants and flies with great success. A sprinkle here or there, and they're gone. I put it in the coats of two dogs that were tormented by fleas, where numerous chemical (and even organic and natural) products did not help, and noticed results within the day.

    Death is not immediate to any insect, but it will repel them in a flash. So if you're wanting to give it a go with the nit problem, go for it, it'll probably work. It works while wet too, so mixing it with water in a spray bottle so that it adheres to a surface will be just as effective.

    I haven't observed anything on the microscopic level, but most claims appear to hold true.

    I like your scientific approach! Kudos to you :-)
    A few comments though:
    There have been tests done on 3 zoos and livestock.
    Here are the links and an excerpt:

    www.diatomearthoutwest.ca/Livestock.php
    Testimonials regarding livestock and Pets:
    Horses, Dairy Cattle, Beef Cattle, Goats, Zoo animals, Pigs, Dogs and Poultry

    www.dirtdoctor.com/Diatomaceous-Earth-Zoo-Animals_vq260.htm
    Diatomaceous Earth - Zoo Animals
    
Richard Smith, Hallwood Inc.,
    Animal Food Specialties, Grand Rapids, Michigan
    

Experimental Feeding of Codex Food-grade Diatomaceous Earth to Zoo Animals

A mixture of feed incorporating 2% diatomaceous earth was sent to three zoos for evaluation.
    John Ball Park of Grand Rapids, Michigan; Brookfield Zoos of Chicago Illinois; and Buffalo Zoo of Buffalo, New York.
    John Ball and Buffalo Zoos reported that their black bears on the special feed showed a better coat and clearer eyes.
    The primates fed at the Brookfield Zoo displayed a pronounced improvement in both appearance and behavior.
    Stool samples taken at all three zoos showed an absence of any internal parasites - adult or egg.
    Parasites in these animals were present prior to using the diatomaceous earth food mixture.

    ALSO-- when buying D.E., make sure you research the best, safest source for it. Not all companies test it and not all food grade is the same purity. Some may contain more aluminum or other substances than would be safe. So always try to get it from a reputable company. If they don't test it regularly then bypass them.

    also--If your dog or cat has fleas or ticks, make sure you wear a mask, and apply the D.E. outside and leave the pet outside for a short while, so that if any fleas or ticks jump off of them, they are not in your home. Also, it's always a good idea to wear a mask and apply it in fresh air for the pet. Safer that way, since it's never a good idea to breathe in any type of heavy dust.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1111 View Post
    In response to neverfly
    "It is just silica. There are no known medical benefits to ingesting it, however, you get plenty of it in any vegetables you eat and the rest is filtered out and leaves the body through the urine."






    With all due respect, that would be a wrong assumption, it has a very valid use as an anti-parasitic substance. It kills parasites in the body quickly and efficiently, without side effects. But it MUST only be the food grade type used.
    Not true, ti kills external parasites by removing the wax coating on the exoskeleton causing dehydration. And it does not need to be food grade to work.
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    I got a new puppy who had worms and coccidia so after researching, I ordered Diatomaceous Earth (DE). I knew I was getting four containers but had no idea how large of containers they would be. I was shocked when they arrived and started researching what else I could use it for. I read that it could lower blood pressure so I tried it. My blood pressure has been 140/90 up to 150/110 lately. Two days after starting to take DE, my blood pressure is 124/78. I will keep trying it as it appears it is working. I had been having chest throbs from the high blood pressure and have had none since starting the DE. If you are a doubter that is fine but I have had many other improvements besides the blood pressure since taking the DE. So far, this does seem almost too good to be true. I see some people speak of $$, but you can purchase this stuff dirt cheap, no pun intended. I have been feeding it to my pets and the improvement in their coats is amazing. I do believe it is a colon cleaner, kills fleas, lowers blood pressure, etc. I also read it lowers cholesterol so I am anxious to see where mine is next appointment as that has been out of control. If you are doubter, try it for a few days and report back.
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    To be honest it is too good to be true, how is something that passes through the digestive tract and does not come in contact with the blood system at any point affecting your blood pressure? Or to put it another way, how have you ruled out placebo effects?
    seagypsy and Neverfly like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1111 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TBK View Post
    Originally I was led to this topic by Google while looking for info. on inhaling DE, but since legsavenue80's post I thought I would reply with some things I've observed and know.

    There have been very little scientific -- as in, laboratory -- studies done on the purported effects of D.E. so based on the claims some of my relatives have made I decided to do my own experiments to see how it holds up. I have not yet confirmed anything on internal parasites (it takes at least 90 days to make that determination, and I'm in the middle of testing that on cats, dogs, horses, and people, which I will have blood tests and fecal exams to go by).

    As for consuming it for health benefits, the sharp edges of D.E. particles are meant to "scrub" the intestinal lining so that nutrients can be better absorbed, therefore improving noticeable qualities like skin and hair, weight loss from feeling full and eating less, and increased energy. I've observed all of these in only my cats, not anything else, and since taking it myself I haven't felt very good at all. I'm not suggesting its the D.E., as I have been in a bit of a stressful slump, so I'm still giving it time to see if anything comes about. I've read a ton of reviews from others who says that it has all of these great benefits and have records to support it (such as cholesterol reduction and improving blood pressure) but I personally am just not seeing anything -- though over all I'm not an unhealthy individual.

    I started taking it at 1tbs the first day and didn't experience any adverse effects. It's a bit tough to drink because it is so chalky, so I put it in chalky drinks like Boost or a protein shake and you can't even notice it. V8 works too. Drinking it in a really thin liquid isn't very comfortable, and it doesn't stay mixed up very well so you either have to drink it quickly or stir it continuously.

    Fleas, and other insects, do build up resistance to chemical pesticides so the use of a natural product like this will prevent any type of immunity. Fleas are tough to kill, but it will repel them (and any other insect) almost instantly. I tested fleas in an enclosed area with D.E. and it took over six hours before they were slowed down at all, and twelve hours or more before death occurred. When I would put them in small concentrations of D.E. they would scramble for their lives to get away from it. Also tried with ants and flies with great success. A sprinkle here or there, and they're gone. I put it in the coats of two dogs that were tormented by fleas, where numerous chemical (and even organic and natural) products did not help, and noticed results within the day.

    Death is not immediate to any insect, but it will repel them in a flash. So if you're wanting to give it a go with the nit problem, go for it, it'll probably work. It works while wet too, so mixing it with water in a spray bottle so that it adheres to a surface will be just as effective.

    I haven't observed anything on the microscopic level, but most claims appear to hold true.

    I like your scientific approach! Kudos to you :-)
    A few comments though:
    There have been tests done on 3 zoos and livestock.
    Here are the links and an excerpt:

    www.diatomearthoutwest.ca/Livestock.php
    Testimonials regarding livestock and Pets:
    Horses, Dairy Cattle, Beef Cattle, Goats, Zoo animals, Pigs, Dogs and Poultry

    www.dirtdoctor.com/Diatomaceous-Earth-Zoo-Animals_vq260.htm
    Diatomaceous Earth - Zoo Animals
    
Richard Smith, Hallwood Inc.,
    Animal Food Specialties, Grand Rapids, Michigan
    

Experimental Feeding of Codex Food-grade Diatomaceous Earth to Zoo Animals

A mixture of feed incorporating 2% diatomaceous earth was sent to three zoos for evaluation.
    John Ball Park of Grand Rapids, Michigan; Brookfield Zoos of Chicago Illinois; and Buffalo Zoo of Buffalo, New York.
    John Ball and Buffalo Zoos reported that their black bears on the special feed showed a better coat and clearer eyes.
    The primates fed at the Brookfield Zoo displayed a pronounced improvement in both appearance and behavior.
    Stool samples taken at all three zoos showed an absence of any internal parasites - adult or egg.
    Parasites in these animals were present prior to using the diatomaceous earth food mixture.

    ALSO-- when buying D.E., make sure you research the best, safest source for it. Not all companies test it and not all food grade is the same purity. Some may contain more aluminum or other substances than would be safe. So always try to get it from a reputable company. If they don't test it regularly then bypass them.

    also--If your dog or cat has fleas or ticks, make sure you wear a mask, and apply the D.E. outside and leave the pet outside for a short while, so that if any fleas or ticks jump off of them, they are not in your home. Also, it's always a good idea to wear a mask and apply it in fresh air for the pet. Safer that way, since it's never a good idea to breathe in any type of heavy dust.
    I find it hard to believe that zoos would allow their animals to be treated like lab rats. That's what lab rats are for. Zoos have a completely different philosophy in caring for animals.

    So do you have any actual studies other than the claims of one money motivated "dirt doctor"? False advertising may be illegal but that doesn't stop it from happening.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    To be honest it is too good to be true, how is something that passes through the digestive tract and does not come in contact with the blood system at any point affecting your blood pressure? Or to put it another way, how have you ruled out placebo effects?
    I can lower my blood pressure just by thinking about it. It's usually how I control pain. I hate taking pills. My blood pressure is usually about 120/65 but I can meditate and get it down to 87/55 (that's my record low) average bp during or immediately after meditation is usually about 105/60... if I do that in the hospital the docs get really irritated with me, but its hilarious.
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    I'm new to this forum. 3 years ago, I purchased DE for bugs and thought I would use it as a natural dewormer for my horses, 50 # bag. I didn't use it. Recently, I remembered I had it and my sis wanted to get rid of her bugs in her new house. I also started researching it some more and have begun using it to hopefully get rid of mites in my home (my dog chews his feet and licks his bum a lot) and am using it for my horse and donkey as a natural wormer. Just started, 2 days ago. Posted it on a horse forum and they thought it might cause ulcers in my horse and donk. With the research I've been doing, DE might not affect muscles or tendons directly as some here seem to think from good effects people are claiming to receive from it. But, it might have an indirect effect as it cleans the lining of the intestines and colon of built up gunk. Just a thought.
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    I'm new to this forum.  3 years ago, I purchased DE for bugs and thought I would use it as a natural dewormer for my horses, 50 # bag.  I didn't use it.  Recently, I remembered I had it and my sis wanted to get rid of her bugs in her new house.  I also started researching it some more and have begun using it to hopefully get rid of mites in my home (my dog chews his feet and licks his bum a lot) and am using it for my horse and donkey as a natural wormer.  Just started, 2 days ago.  Posted it on a horse forum and they thought it might cause ulcers in my horse and donk.  With the research I've been doing, DE might not affect muscles or tendons directly as some here seem to think from good effects people are claiming to receive from it.  But, it might have an indirect effect as it cleans the lining of the intestines and colon of built up gunk.  Just a thought. So sorry, didn't mean to post twice!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddlebum View Post
    I'm new to this forum. 3 years ago, I purchased DE for bugs and thought I would use it as a natural dewormer for my horses, 50 # bag. I didn't use it. Recently, I remembered I had it and my sis wanted to get rid of her bugs in her new house. I also started researching it some more and have begun using it to hopefully get rid of mites in my home (my dog chews his feet and licks his bum a lot) and am using it for my horse and donkey as a natural wormer. Just started, 2 days ago. Posted it on a horse forum and they thought it might cause ulcers in my horse and donk. With the research I've been doing, DE might not affect muscles or tendons directly as some here seem to think from good effects people are claiming to receive from it. But, it might have an indirect effect as it cleans the lining of the intestines and colon of built up gunk. Just a thought.
    It sounds like the puppy has either an environmental allergy or a food allergy. Dogs detox through their anal glands and from between their toes. You may want to look into either a grain free diet or a novel protein diet for him/her to stop the itching.
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    I've been feeding him raw meat/organs for a couple of years now. It has not worked. I bought an expensive steamer and steamed cleaned my house - still, didn't do it. Clean, dust and vacuum, two-3 times per week. Didn't do it. He doesn't itch himself raw but still, he does lick his bottom a LOT and chews on his paws too much and then scratches around his jaw and ear area a little (not terribly). I thought house mites. Therefore, am trying the DE but omg, it is so dusty. I'm dusting and vacuuming and will mop the DE up today, give us a couple of hours relief and then reapply. The web said to do this for a month and all the eggs laid down will be hatched and everything will be killed off. Phew, I'm tired already.
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    Definitely sounds like an allergy.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    To be honest it is too good to be true, how is something that passes through the digestive tract and does not come in contact with the blood system at any point affecting your blood pressure? Or to put it another way, how have you ruled out placebo effects?
    I can lower my blood pressure just by thinking about it. It's usually how I control pain. I hate taking pills. My blood pressure is usually about 120/65 but I can meditate and get it down to 87/55 (that's my record low) average bp during or immediately after meditation is usually about 105/60... if I do that in the hospital the docs get really irritated with me, but its hilarious.
    Don't you just hate it when a doctor gives you bad news, then takes your blood pressure?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddlebum View Post
    I've been feeding him raw meat/organs for a couple of years now. It has not worked. I bought an expensive steamer and steamed cleaned my house - still, didn't do it. Clean, dust and vacuum, two-3 times per week. Didn't do it. He doesn't itch himself raw but still, he does lick his bottom a LOT and chews on his paws too much and then scratches around his jaw and ear area a little (not terribly). I thought house mites. Therefore, am trying the DE but omg, it is so dusty. I'm dusting and vacuuming and will mop the DE up today, give us a couple of hours relief and then reapply. The web said to do this for a month and all the eggs laid down will be hatched and everything will be killed off. Phew, I'm tired already.
    Just a thought but I've had a very good experience with flea & tick collars. Also there's a good selection of products that you put a drop on their skin about the neck. It's absorbed by the animal an works systemically, when a bug sucks a little blood they die. If your dog and cats don't have any problem with these products, I highly recommend them.
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    I could try flea and tick collar just to see if it is the bugs (mites) and go from there. I hate to use chemicals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddlebum View Post
    I could try flea and tick collar just to see if it is the bugs (mites) and go from there. I hate to use chemicals.
    I felt the same way, but the collars didn't bother my two small dogs, and for 14 years they never had any fleas or ticks or mites for that matter. It solved a big problem as I really hate any type of bugs in my house and my small dogs were house dogs most of the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddlebum View Post
    I hate to use chemicals.
    Diatomaceous earth is a chemical.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Saddlebum View Post
    I hate to use chemicals.
    Diatomaceous earth is a chemical.
    So is dihydrogen oxide.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Saddlebum View Post
    I hate to use chemicals.
    Diatomaceous earth is a chemical.
    Mostly calcium I believe. But if you eat it, most will just pass through without being digested.
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    oh dear. I must make myself clear here. Designed chemicals, I do not like designed chemicals with exception, mother earth designed er, made.

    I thought DE was mostly silica with several other minerals mixed in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddlebum View Post
    oh dear. I must make myself clear here. Designed chemicals, I do not like designed chemicals with exception, mother earth designed er, made.

    I thought DE was mostly silica with several other minerals mixed in.
    You were right, my bad.

    Diatomaceous earth (pron.: /ˌd.ətəˌmʃəs ˈɜrθ/) also known as D.E., diatomite, or kieselgur/kieselguhr, is a naturally occurring, soft, siliceous sedimentary rock that is easily crumbled into a fine white to off-white powder. It has a particle size ranging from less than 3 micrometre to more than 1 millimeter, but typically 10 to 200 micrometres. Depending on the granularity, this powder can have an abrasive feel, similar to pumice powder, and is very light as a result of its high porosity. The typical chemical composition of oven-dried diatomaceous earth is 80 to 90% silica, with 2 to 4% alumina (attributed mostly to clay minerals) and 0.5 to 2% iron oxide.[1]

    Diatomaceous earth consists of fossilized remains of diatoms, a type of hard-shelled algae. It is used as a filtration aid, mild abrasive in products including toothpaste, mechanical insecticide, absorbent for liquids, matting agent for coatings, reinforcing filler in plastics and rubber, anti-block in plastic films, porous support for chemical catalysts, cat litter, activator in blood clotting studies, a stabilizing component of dynamite, and a thermal insulator.
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    Well, there you have it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddlebum View Post
    Well, there you have it.
    The only time I have ever used it was for an aquarium filter, and it worked very well for that function.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddlebum View Post
    Designed chemicals, I do not like designed chemicals with exception, mother earth designed er, made.
    WTF does that mean? You like silk but not nylon? You like ricin but not Prussian blue?
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    Well Strange, I believe you have more confidence in what I said than I do. If you take what I said and realize it came from an uneducated person, you might find it easier to understand - hope so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddlebum View Post
    I've been feeding him raw meat/organs for a couple of years now. It has not worked. I bought an expensive steamer and steamed cleaned my house - still, didn't do it. Clean, dust and vacuum, two-3 times per week. Didn't do it. He doesn't itch himself raw but still, he does lick his bottom a LOT and chews on his paws too much and then scratches around his jaw and ear area a little (not terribly). I thought house mites. Therefore, am trying the DE but omg, it is so dusty. I'm dusting and vacuuming and will mop the DE up today, give us a couple of hours relief and then reapply. The web said to do this for a month and all the eggs laid down will be hatched and everything will be killed off. Phew, I'm tired already.
    What is the protein source? Beef, chicken? Have you been rotating the protein source? (and making sure the food is nutritionally balanced) Keeping on one source is a very good way to let food allergies and intolerances build up. Which is very much what it sounds like the problem is.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    I go through phases I suppose. I often get freezer's full of meat they let get too old so there is a mix of freezer burned turkeys, chicken, venison, bear, elk and fish. One family fishes all summer, they clean and freeze it then give it to me for my dog. They don't like fresh water salmon. I try to stick to 10% organ meat, and watch his stools to see if they are runny or is he struggling. More bone or less bone respectively.

    But we go through phases when I can't get any free meat so he then eats a lot of chicken and I always make sure he gets his organs. I will pick up road kill deer and rabbits etc - no garbage pickers (coons, opposums etc.) and bring them home for him. He also gets raw eggs and I mix them in with hamburger etc.

    My neighbor raises cattle and butchers and gives a lot to his daughter and son-in-law but she gets too lazy to cook it and calls me when it gets too old. Mums the word!
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    Hmm, nice rotation, though a lot of the nutritional value is being lost if the meat is freezer burned. Also to note, beef and chicken are very common allergens for dogs, try cutting them out of the diet for three weeks and see if there is improvement.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    Just wanted to let everyone know, DE is very drying. You should wear gloves when handling it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddlebum View Post
    Just wanted to let everyone know, DE is very drying. You should wear gloves when handling it.
    if it is ground into a fine powder and added to a paste could it be used as diaper rash remedy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Saddlebum View Post
    Just wanted to let everyone know, DE is very drying. You should wear gloves when handling it.
    if it is ground into a fine powder and added to a paste could it be used as diaper rash remedy?
    You might as well use a fine sandpaper on the diaper rash. I was going to find a picture but got grossed out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Saddlebum View Post
    Just wanted to let everyone know, DE is very drying. You should wear gloves when handling it.
    if it is ground into a fine powder and added to a paste could it be used as diaper rash remedy?
    You might as well use a fine sandpaper on the diaper rash. I was going to find a picture but got grossed out.
    So you are saying it would make a better itching powder then? so I can find a good use for it then lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Saddlebum View Post
    Just wanted to let everyone know, DE is very drying. You should wear gloves when handling it.
    if it is ground into a fine powder and added to a paste could it be used as diaper rash remedy?
    Please dont use this around children especially. The inhaled dust is dangerous and can cause silicosis.

    Im somewhat confused as to why people are searching for other & bodily uses for DE. Use it for the hard shell - exoskeleton bugs and move on lol

    ingesting to "scrub your insides" um not a good idea. your insides are soft flesh and lined with mucus, . you need a proverbial broom ie roughage, not a scouring pad or minute sharp edges that may make micro cuts and resulting scars

    A lot of the claims seem to be lucky timing or placebo. Youd need a double blind study to REALLy test the efficacy. you MAY be doing some long term harm
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    Thanks Idaknown - your perspective is very helpful to me! I also recently read an article published in Horses Incorporated by Dr. Christine King regarding natural dewormers and the article basically said the same thing you did. Here is a link to the article if anyone wants to read it:

    http://www.animavet.com/NaturalDewormers.pdf

    Bugs only from now on for me.
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    Recently interested in D.E.

    And looking for definitive medical or scientific evidence.
    So far the only links and information I have found in google seems to proclaim all these wonderful benefits while the pages listing the health benefits always leads to somebody's SALES PAGE , as they are trying to sale D.E. or create an internet "buzz" to initiate a buying frenzy.

    So far it looks like some greedy / enterprising individuals want to make money selling bags of harmless powder which, the government has determined as safe and harmless.

    hmmm?

    Approved by the same bunch of knuckleheads that approved the cancer causing "red dye #2 or was it # 3" which was used in M&M's and other children's candy in the 1960's,,,,

    and the same knuckleheads that also approved of alcohol and cigarette's being mass marketed to the public.

    I think i'll wait before I start eating D.E..
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxxbuster123 View Post
    Recently interested in D.E.

    And looking for definitive medical or scientific evidence.
    So far the only links and information I have found in google seems to proclaim all these wonderful benefits while the pages listing the health benefits always leads to somebody's SALES PAGE , as they are trying to sale D.E. or create an internet "buzz" to initiate a buying frenzy.

    So far it looks like some greedy / enterprising individuals want to make money selling bags of harmless powder which, the government has determined as safe and harmless.

    hmmm?

    Approved by the same bunch of knuckleheads that approved the cancer causing "red dye #2 or was it # 3" which was used in M&M's and other children's candy in the 1960's,,,,

    and the same knuckleheads that also approved of alcohol and cigarette's being mass marketed to the public.

    I think i'll wait before I start eating D.E..
    Welcome to the forum and if you don't want to eat dirt I won't hold it against you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxxbuster123 View Post
    Recently interested in D.E.

    And looking for definitive medical or scientific evidence.
    So far the only links and information I have found in google seems to proclaim all these wonderful benefits while the pages listing the health benefits always leads to somebody's SALES PAGE , as they are trying to sale D.E. or create an internet "buzz" to initiate a buying frenzy.

    So far it looks like some greedy / enterprising individuals want to make money selling bags of harmless powder which, the government has determined as safe and harmless.

    hmmm?

    Approved by the same bunch of knuckleheads that approved the cancer causing "red dye #2 or was it # 3" which was used in M&M's and other children's candy in the 1960's,,,,

    and the same knuckleheads that also approved of alcohol and cigarette's being mass marketed to the public.

    I think i'll wait before I start eating D.E..
    A number of the effect of DE are very well known. It only recently, much later then the standardizing of food and industrial grades, that the major hyping of accountable benefits has popped up.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

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    I have taken food grade for 4 months with shocking results in blood chemistry and joints Shocking! I also have autoimmune diease this has completely halted it with no side effects! As compared to meds i was on before steriod and plaquenel. I am going to halt the use of DE and repeat the blood chemistry ! and see what happens !
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    Quote Originally Posted by joannebache View Post
    I have taken food grade for 4 months with shocking results in blood chemistry and joints Shocking! I also have autoimmune diease this has completely halted it with no side effects! As compared to meds i was on before steriod and plaquenel. I am going to halt the use of DE and repeat the blood chemistry ! and see what happens !

    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joannebache View Post
    I have taken food grade for 4 months with shocking results in blood chemistry and joints Shocking! I also have autoimmune diease this has completely halted it with no side effects! As compared to meds i was on before steriod and plaquenel. I am going to halt the use of DE and repeat the blood chemistry ! and see what happens !
    its interesting that single time posters always seem to be making the same general statement. Very very similar statements in fact
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    Quote Originally Posted by joannebache View Post
    I have taken food grade for 4 months with shocking results in blood chemistry and joints Shocking! I also have autoimmune diease this has completely halted it with no side effects! As compared to meds i was on before steriod and plaquenel. I am going to halt the use of DE and repeat the blood chemistry ! and see what happens !
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by joannebache View Post
    I have taken food grade for 4 months with shocking results in blood chemistry and joints Shocking! I also have autoimmune diease this has completely halted it with no side effects! As compared to meds i was on before steriod and plaquenel. I am going to halt the use of DE and repeat the blood chemistry ! and see what happens !
    its interesting that single time posters always seem to be making the same general statement. Very very similar statements in fact
    I think it is caused by companies making this crap paying people to post in forums and blogs. I see ads for this crap all the time on craigslist. "Get paid to blog. Get paid to post in forums!" I imagine these fly by nonsense cheerleaders are at least being paid to look this dumb.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by joannebache View Post
    I have taken food grade for 4 months with shocking results in blood chemistry and joints Shocking! I also have autoimmune diease this has completely halted it with no side effects! As compared to meds i was on before steriod and plaquenel. I am going to halt the use of DE and repeat the blood chemistry ! and see what happens !
    its interesting that single time posters always seem to be making the same general statement. Very very similar statements in fact
    I think it is caused by companies making this crap paying people to post in forums and blogs. I see ads for this crap all the time on craigslist. "Get paid to blog. Get paid to post in forums!" I imagine these fly by nonsense cheerleaders are at least being paid to look this dumb.
    It absolutely is the case. I was a freelance writer for a while and I got offers for that kind of crap all the time. They usually pay so low that only people out of places like China and India ever got the work, so I would not be surprised to see some bad English as well.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    There are good reasons to expect diatomaceous earth to be effective in a wide variety of diseases. The scientific evidence is sparse, but this there, and its clear. Mostly, the scientific evidence is in the animal/veterinary literature.

    There are a lot of ignorant people on this forum who apparently dont understand how science works. Science is empirical. It requires experiments. Science is not a body of dogma. The dogma here appears to be "DE is pure silica, which is sand, and that cannot possibly have an effect." This is wrong for a couple reasons:

    1) DE has extremely high surface area and therefore high surface activity. It has very high cation binding capacity and high surface charge. its a high surface-energy material. Accordingly, its binds to things. Things like toxins.
    2) DE is not sand. Sand is crystalline silica. DE is hydrated amorphous silica. Accordingly, DE has different surface chemistry. Chemical bonds are strained, and therefore more reactive. There will be more active surface sites for chemical reactions and possibly catalyst reactions.

    Also, DE is not pure silica. It contains dozens of trace minerals (e.g. transition metals), and this of course could contribute to or create novel surface-active effects.

    The mechanisms of activity of DE are generally not known, but some are. When used against insects, the evidence is pretty good that it scrapes and cuts the insects. But this mechanism of activity doesnt really make much sense inside the gut. Rather, what seems more likely is that DE binds toxins the gut, for example toxins produced by bacteria. DE may also have antimicrobial effects due to its surface chemistry.

    it is well-established at this point that gut bacteria are hugely important in the pathogenesis of many diseases, including autoimmune diseases, arthritis, chronic infections, and even cardiovascular disease and psychological disorders. So, it is plausible for DE to have effects on any of these diseases. There is also evidence that DE can affect the growth (inhibit or promote) of gut bacteria. What specifically it does is not known, but its preposterous to assert that it must be inert. All the evidence is to the contrary: that DE is active and may be highly active.

    Its pretty pathetic that a long thread (83 replies so far!) on "the science forum" has no references to actual scientific literature or studies (sorry if i missed one). Its not that hard, people. Learn how to use Google Scholar to make your point.

    In view of the scientific research I have read about DE-animal studies and research into its chemical properties-I am quite inclined to believe the people on here who say it has helped them. While there are no human studies on the diseases mentioned here, it is very plausible that DE would have the effects reported.

    Here is an example of the type of research i am talking about. These papers are hard to find because DE is used in laboratory filtering procedures, so keyword searches will pull up thousands of studies that have nothing to do with administering DE to humans or animals, or testing the effects of DE on bacteria. But those studies are out there. Not a huge number, but enough to clearly prove that DE is not "inert".


    Effect of diatomaceous earth on the performance and blood variables of broiler chicks during experimental aflatoxicosis

    Abstract

    BACKGROUND: Diatomaceous earth (DE) is a type of tectosilicate found in large quantities in Iran. It is possible that this compound can absorb mycotoxins. An experiment was conducted to evaluate the protective effects of DE on experimental aflatoxicosis in broilers from 1 to 42 days of age. In four treatments of four replicates, 160 one-day-old Hubbard male chicks were subjected to two levels of aflatoxin B1 (AFB1) (0 and 1.0 mg kg−1) and DE (0 and 30 mg kg−1)

    RESULTS: Body weight gain, feed intake, feed conversion ratio, and productive efficiency index were adversely affected in the chicks treated with AFB1. Weight of heart was significantly decreased (20.3%) by AFB1 (P < 0.05). Serum total protein, albumin, and the activity of serum lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) were decreased by AFB1. DE significantly (P < 0.05) increased body weight gain (9.51%), feed intake (7.44%), and improved feed conversion ratio (2.08%) as well as productive efficiency index (5.48%) in the birds that subjected to AFB1 DE also increased serum albumin (22.6%), and the activity of serum LDH (44.4%).

    CONCLUSION: DE might be beneficial in reducing toxic effects of AFB1 in broilers. It is possible to include DE as an alternative to other mycotoxin binders at levels of 30 mg kg−1 in the diets on offer to broilers between the ages of 1 and 42 days. Copyright 2007 Society of Chemical Industry
    Last edited by Ddanimal; September 16th, 2013 at 01:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ddanimal View Post
    There are good reasons to expect diatomaceous earth to be effective in a wide variety of diseases. The scientific evidence is sparse, but this there, and its clear. Mostly, the scientific evidence is in the animal/veterinary literature.

    There are a lot of ignorant people on this forum who apparently dont understand how science works. Science is empirical. It requires experiments. Science is not a body of dogma. The dogma here appears to be "DE is pure silica, which is sand, and that cannot possibly have an effect." This is wrong for many reasons:

    1) DE has extremely high surface area and therefore high surface activity. It has very high cation binding capacity and high surface charge. its a high surface-energy material. Accordingly, its binds to things. Things like toxins.
    2) DE is not sand. Sand is crystalline silica. DE is hydrated amorphous silica. Accordingly, DE has different surface chemistry. Chemical bonds are strained, and therefore more reactive. There will be more active surface sites for chemical reactions and possibly catalyst reactions.

    The mechanisms of activity of DE are generally not known, but some are. When used against insects, the evidence is pretty good that it scrapes and cuts the insects. But this mechanism of activity doesnt really make much sense inside the gut. Rather, what seems more likely is that DE binds toxins the gut, for example toxins produced by bacteria. DE may also have antimicrobial effects due to its surface chemistry.

    it is well-established at this point that gut bacteria are hugely important in the pathogenesis of many diseases, including autoimmune diseases, arthritis, chronic infections, and even cardiovascular disease and psychological disorders. So, it is plausible for DE to have effects on any of these diseases. There is also evidence that DE can affect the growth (inhibit or promote) of gut bacteria. What specifically it does is not known, but its preposterous to assert that it must be inert. All the evidence is to the contrary: that DE is active and may be highly active.

    Its pretty pathetic that a long thread (83 replies so far!) on "the science forum" has no references to actual scientific literature or studies (sorry if i missed one). Its not that hard, people. Learn how to use Google Scholar to make your point.

    In view of the scientific research I have read about DE-animal studies and research into its chemical properties-I am quite inclined to believe the people on here who say it has helped them. While there are no human studies on the diseases mentioned here, it is very plausible that DE would have the effects reported.

    Here is an example of the type of research i am talking about. These papers are hard to find because DE is used in laboratory filtering procedures, so keyword searches will pull up thousands of studies that have nothing to do with administering DE to humans or animals, or testing the effects of DE on bacteria. But those studies are out there. Not a huge number, but enough to clearly prove that DE is not "inert".


    Effect of diatomaceous earth on the performance and blood variables of broiler chicks during experimental aflatoxicosis

    Abstract

    BACKGROUND: Diatomaceous earth (DE) is a type of tectosilicate found in large quantities in Iran. It is possible that this compound can absorb mycotoxins. An experiment was conducted to evaluate the protective effects of DE on experimental aflatoxicosis in broilers from 1 to 42 days of age. In four treatments of four replicates, 160 one-day-old Hubbard male chicks were subjected to two levels of aflatoxin B1 (AFB1) (0 and 1.0 mg kg−1) and DE (0 and 30 mg kg−1)

    RESULTS: Body weight gain, feed intake, feed conversion ratio, and productive efficiency index were adversely affected in the chicks treated with AFB1. Weight of heart was significantly decreased (20.3%) by AFB1 (P < 0.05). Serum total protein, albumin, and the activity of serum lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) were decreased by AFB1. DE significantly (P < 0.05) increased body weight gain (9.51%), feed intake (7.44%), and improved feed conversion ratio (2.08%) as well as productive efficiency index (5.48%) in the birds that subjected to AFB1 DE also increased serum albumin (22.6%), and the activity of serum LDH (44.4%).

    CONCLUSION: DE might be beneficial in reducing toxic effects of AFB1 in broilers. It is possible to include DE as an alternative to other mycotoxin binders at levels of 30 mg kg−1 in the diets on offer to broilers between the ages of 1 and 42 days. Copyright 2007 Society of Chemical Industry
    So how much were you paid to type that out? Oh my bad, I mean how much did they pay you to copy and paste that from somewhere else.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    Here are some more interesting research results regarding DE. The scientific literature does not support an assertion that DE is "inert".


    Effect of diatomaceous earth on parasite load, egg production, and egg quality of free-range organic laying hens

    ABSTRACT

    The effectiveness of diatomaceous earth (DE) as a treatment against parasites and to increase feed efficiency and egg production of organically raised free-range layer hens was evaluated in 2 breeds of commercial egg layers [Bovan Brown (BB) and Lowmann Brown (LB)] that differ in their resistance to internal parasitic infections. Half the hens of each breed were fed diets supplemented with DE (2%). Their internal parasite loads were assessed by biweekly fecal egg counts (FEC) and by postmortem examination of the gastrointestinal tract. Supplementing DE in diets of LB hens, the more parasite-resistant breed, did not significantly affect their FEC and adult parasite load. However, BB hens treated with dietary DE had significantly lower Capillaria FEC, slightly lower Eimeria FEC, fewer birds infected with Heterakis, and significantly lower Heterakis worm burden than control BB hens. Both BB and LB hens fed the diet containing DE were significantly heavier, laid more eggs, and consumed more feed than hens fed the control diet, but feed efficiency did not differ between the 2 dietary treatments. Additionally, BB hens consuming the DE diet laid larger eggs containing more albumen and yolk than hens consuming the control diet. In a subsequent experiment, the effectiveness of DE to treat a Northern fowl mite (Ornithonyssus sylviarum) infestation was tested. Relative to controls, both breeds of hens that were dusted with DE had reduced number of mites. The results of this study indicate the DE has the potential to be an effective treatment to help control parasites and improve production of organically raised, free-range layer hens.





    1998 Apr 8;3(4):211-5.

    Diatomaceous earth lowers blood cholesterol concentrations.

    Source

    Institute of Medical Chemistry and Biochemistry, University of Innsbruck, Fritz Pregl Strasse 3, Innsbruck, A-6020, Austria.

    Abstract

    In this study a potential influence of diatomaceus earth to lower blood cholesterol was investigated. During 12 weeks we monitored serum lipid concentrations in 19 healthy individuals with a history of moderate hypercholesterinemia (9 females, 10 males, aged 35 - 67 years). Individuals administered orally 250 mg diatomaceous earth three-times daily during an 8 weeks observation period. Serum concentrations of cholesterol, high-density lipoprotein cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol and triglycerides levels were measured before study entry, every second week during the period of diatomaceous earth intake and 4 weeks after stop of intake. Compared to baseline (285.8 +/- 37.5 mg/dl = 7.40 +/- 0.97 mM) diatomaceous earth intake was associated with a significant reduction of serum cholesterol at any time point, reaching a minimum on week 6 (248.1 mg/dl = 6.43 mM, -13.2% from baseline; p<0.001). Also low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (week 4: p<0.05) and triglycerides levels decreased (week 2: p<0.05, week 4: p<0.01). Four weeks after intake of diatomaceous earth was stopped, serum cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol and triglycerides still remained low and also the increase of high-density lipoprotein cholesterol became significant (p<0.05). Diatomaceous earth, a bioproduct, is capable of reducing blood cholesterol and positively influencing lipid metabolism in humans. Placebo-controlled studies will be necessary to confirm our findings.
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    Im not paid anything. Those are my own words and I am not writing this for anyone else.

    Have any comments on the merits?

    Here is another website i created: fluoridefreenrv.org Maybe that will convince you that Im not just some guy that responded to a craigslist ad.
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    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ddanimal View Post
    Im not paid anything. Those are my own words and I am not writing this for anyone else.

    Have any comments on the merits?

    Here is another website i created: fluoridefreenrv.org Maybe that will convince you that Im not just some guy that responded to a craigslist ad.
    So were your own words peer reviewed?
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    This patent describes research on dogs demonstrating that DE improves healing of bone and teeth.

    Patent US20100143488 - Promoter of hard tissue regeneration - Google Patents

    Promoter of hard tissue regeneration
    US 20100143488 A1
    Abstract
    The object of the present invention is to provide a hard-tissue regeneration promoter, a pharmaceutical composition, a food composition, a food, etc., useful for regeneration of an impaired or defective hard tissue, which can be prepared in low production and labor costs. That is, regeneration of a hard tissue in an impaired or defective area can be promoted by causing such an agent or composition to contain diatomaceous earth and administering the resulting agent/composition beneath the periosteum in the vicinity of the impaired or defective hard tissue or orally administering the same.
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    You are asking me if what i wrote above is peer-reviewed? Thats a pretty dumb question.

    Again, have any comments on the merits?
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    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ddanimal View Post
    You are asking me if what i wrote above is peer-reviewed? Thats a pretty dumb question.

    Again, have any comments on the merits?
    Oh sorry let me rephrase it. Which peer reviewed journal is it published in?

    Also none of what you posted gave any information of the benefits of ingestion for humans.

    Chickens regularly ingest dirt. Their digestive system is set up to need dirt and stones in order to grind the food they eat. So unless humans have gizzards I don't see how any of what you typed has anything to do with the benefits of DE for human ingestion.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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  93. #92  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ddanimal View Post
    There are good reasons to expect diatomaceous earth to be effective in a wide variety of diseases. The scientific evidence is sparse, but this there, and its clear. Mostly, the scientific evidence is in the animal/veterinary literature.

    There are a lot of ignorant people on this forum who apparently dont understand how science works. Science is empirical. It requires experiments. Science is not a body of dogma. The dogma here appears to be "DE is pure silica, which is sand, and that cannot possibly have an effect." This is wrong for a couple reasons:

    1) DE has extremely high surface area and therefore high surface activity. It has very high cation binding capacity and high surface charge. its a high surface-energy material. Accordingly, its binds to things. Things like toxins.
    2) DE is not sand. Sand is crystalline silica. DE is hydrated amorphous silica. Accordingly, DE has different surface chemistry. Chemical bonds are strained, and therefore more reactive. There will be more active surface sites for chemical reactions and possibly catalyst reactions.

    Also, DE is not pure silica. It contains dozens of trace minerals (e.g. transition metals), and this of course could contribute to or create novel surface-active effects.

    The mechanisms of activity of DE are generally not known, but some are. When used against insects, the evidence is pretty good that it scrapes and cuts the insects. But this mechanism of activity doesnt really make much sense inside the gut. Rather, what seems more likely is that DE binds toxins the gut, for example toxins produced by bacteria. DE may also have antimicrobial effects due to its surface chemistry.

    it is well-established at this point that gut bacteria are hugely important in the pathogenesis of many diseases, including autoimmune diseases, arthritis, chronic infections, and even cardiovascular disease and psychological disorders. So, it is plausible for DE to have effects on any of these diseases. There is also evidence that DE can affect the growth (inhibit or promote) of gut bacteria. What specifically it does is not known, but its preposterous to assert that it must be inert. All the evidence is to the contrary: that DE is active and may be highly active.

    Its pretty pathetic that a long thread (83 replies so far!) on "the science forum" has no references to actual scientific literature or studies (sorry if i missed one). Its not that hard, people. Learn how to use Google Scholar to make your point.

    In view of the scientific research I have read about DE-animal studies and research into its chemical properties-I am quite inclined to believe the people on here who say it has helped them. While there are no human studies on the diseases mentioned here, it is very plausible that DE would have the effects reported.

    Here is an example of the type of research i am talking about. These papers are hard to find because DE is used in laboratory filtering procedures, so keyword searches will pull up thousands of studies that have nothing to do with administering DE to humans or animals, or testing the effects of DE on bacteria. But those studies are out there. Not a huge number, but enough to clearly prove that DE is not "inert".


    Effect of diatomaceous earth on the performance and blood variables of broiler chicks during experimental aflatoxicosis

    Abstract

    BACKGROUND: Diatomaceous earth (DE) is a type of tectosilicate found in large quantities in Iran. It is possible that this compound can absorb mycotoxins. An experiment was conducted to evaluate the protective effects of DE on experimental aflatoxicosis in broilers from 1 to 42 days of age. In four treatments of four replicates, 160 one-day-old Hubbard male chicks were subjected to two levels of aflatoxin B1 (AFB1) (0 and 1.0 mg kg−1) and DE (0 and 30 mg kg−1)

    RESULTS: Body weight gain, feed intake, feed conversion ratio, and productive efficiency index were adversely affected in the chicks treated with AFB1. Weight of heart was significantly decreased (20.3%) by AFB1 (P < 0.05). Serum total protein, albumin, and the activity of serum lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) were decreased by AFB1. DE significantly (P < 0.05) increased body weight gain (9.51%), feed intake (7.44%), and improved feed conversion ratio (2.08%) as well as productive efficiency index (5.48%) in the birds that subjected to AFB1 DE also increased serum albumin (22.6%), and the activity of serum LDH (44.4%).

    CONCLUSION: DE might be beneficial in reducing toxic effects of AFB1 in broilers. It is possible to include DE as an alternative to other mycotoxin binders at levels of 30 mg kg−1 in the diets on offer to broilers between the ages of 1 and 42 days. Copyright 2007 Society of Chemical Industry
    So what are the peer reviewed papers where your assertions have been published? Specifically the assertion of high trace mineral content and the assertions of any sort of affects on blood system conditions that are not connected to the digestive tract.
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    The assertion was made-over and over again-that DE cannot possibly be effective for anything because it is completely inert. That is clearly not the case. DE is not inert. It has effects on microbes, parasites, and toxins. It has been observed to have benefiticial effects on chickens and humans. Therefore, it is plausible for it to have beneficial effects in a wide range of diseases.

    You guys are now trying to move the goalposts. Im not arguing it should be FDA-approved, or that these uses are proven. Far from it. I have merely proven their plausibility. And that shopuld be plenty good enough to change the nature of the debate about DE.

    And if you guys are logical and follow the scientific method it should mean that you no longer mock and deride people who say it has been helpful for them. Your attitude should be curiosity, not hostility.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    I am asking what peer reviewed articles two of your assertions were from.
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    Humans are affected by aflatoxins, just like chickens and pigs.
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    This forum would not allow me to post the links or the journal titles, because they were hyperlinked.

    Just google the title and it will take you to the respective journals.
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  100. #99  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ddanimal View Post
    The assertion was made-over and over again-that DE cannot possibly be effective for anything because it is completely inert. That is clearly not the case. DE is not inert. It has effects on microbes, parasites, and toxins. It has been observed to have benefiticial effects on chickens and humans. Therefore, it is plausible for it to have beneficial effects in a wide range of diseases.
    Maybe you don't know what inert means.
    And, so far, you haven't given any sources for the claims.
    The claims that YOU posted that state (which you appear to be ignoring):
    controlled studies will be necessary to confirm our findings
    DE might be beneficial
    Those "observations" are unconfirmed.
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    That partly addressed one of my requests, though I will note the cholesterol levels and mycotoxin are effectable by the DE in the digestive tract, so its not surprising. The assertions that often appear for DE are along the lines of old injuries healing and blood based diseases not effected by the digestive tract being cured/lessened. These are what we are wanting specific peer reviewed references for.
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