Notices
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 201 to 300 of 354
Like Tree105Likes

Thread: Diatomaceous earth, food grade, is this really so good , or dangerous ?

  1. #201  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunk View Post
    I didn't use wonder drug
    This is you, not using "wonder drug":
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunk View Post
    Furthermore, I wonder if mixing Diatomaceous earth with nopalea cactus could be a wonder drug ?
    And why should prickly pears (a rather overrated fruit, in my opinion) form a wonder drug when mixed with sand?I see you have gone back and added more "stuff" to your post:
    Of course doctors would rather you pay for their chemicals.
    If you worry about "chemicals", you had better stop drinking water: it's a chemical!!!1! And stop breathing: air is a complex mixture of chemicals!1!1!And as for food, why it is nothing but chemicals.
    Yea man that wonder drug thing was the post I was REPLYING to and you know what I mean about prescription drugs. I know everything is made of chemicals..I'm talking prescription drugs and that right there was the beginning of MY post don't know what happened to the rest
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #202  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    20
    When I first entered it didn't put anything I had typed...just original post I was replying to ..so then I had to edit a couple minutes later
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #203  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    20
    Prickly pear thing is the end of the post I was replying to I believe
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #204  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,585
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunk View Post
    you know what I mean about prescription drugs
    I have this habit of replying to what people say, rather than what they are thinking. Sorry about that. Something to do with not being a mind-reader.

    So you don't think millions of people's lives should be saved by the use of modern medicines to treat infections or parasites (one of the leading causes of death) or anaesthetics or the elimination of major killers like smallpox and (nearly) polio?

    You would rather condemn children to death because you are lucky enough to live in an age and a society where you can afford to make idiotic statements about modern medical treatment? Really?
    RedPanda likes this.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #205  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    What does "Food Grade"mean? This is what I found when I looked it up.

    Food grade quality refers to the minimum standard for substances to qualify as fit for human consumption or permitted to come in contact with food. These guidelines are defined by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS).

    Read more: Define Food Grade Quality | eHow
    But I couldn't find exactly how that could be applied to DE. If anybody has a clue as to what makes DE food grade I'd like to know?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #206  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,585
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunk View Post
    Yea man that wonder drug thing was the post I was REPLYING to
    Sorry, your post was so messed up. I assumed it was all yours.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #207  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunk View Post
    you know what I mean about prescription drugs
    I have this habit of replying to what people say, rather than what they are thinking. Sorry about that. Something to do with not being a mind-reader.So you don't think millions of people's lives should be saved by the use of modern medicines to treat infections or parasites (one of the leading causes of death) or anaesthetics or the elimination of major killers like smallpox and (nearly) polio?You would rather condemn children to death because you are lucky enough to live in an age and a society where you can afford to make idiotic statements about modern medical treatment? Really?
    No no I believe in middle ground. Yes vaccines are necessary and I know about society before modern medicine I was history major before volleyball and yes it was sad. But, on the flip side you have to admit there are docs out there that are quick with the pen and refuse to look into something existing naturally before going the way of prescription. People I know have died because of this.( for the US..I don't have experience with medical practice outside of US)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #208  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,585
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    But I couldn't find exactly how that could be applied to DE. If anybody has a clue as to what makes DE food grade I'd like to know?
    It is heat treated for some applications (like pool filters) which removes impurities but also makes it more dangerous as it converts some of the amorphous silica to crystalline form. This is more likely to cause silicosis.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #209  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,107
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    What does "Food Grade"mean? This is what I found when I looked it up.

    Food grade quality refers to the minimum standard for substances to qualify as fit for human consumption or permitted to come in contact with food. These guidelines are defined by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS).

    Read more: Define Food Grade Quality | eHow
    But I couldn't find exactly how that could be applied to DE. If anybody has a clue as to what makes DE food grade I'd like to know?
    it is used as an anticaking agent in table salt and other powdered(just add moisture) foods. But it is in low quantities.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticaking_agent
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_silicate



    Salt is safe to consume and so is cinnamon but you wouldn't want to eat tablespoons of it . And we know what happens when you drink salt water.

    For that matter, alcohol is considered safe for human consumption, but it is well known that alcohol causes liver damage as well as inebriates the brain. You can die from alcohol poisoning if you drink too much at one time. Cirrhosis of the liver if you drink to heavily for an extended period of time.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #210  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,585
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunk View Post
    But, on the flip side you have to admit there are docs out there that are quick with the pen and refuse to look into something existing naturally before going the way of prescription.
    I assume they are prescribing something that has been tested and shown to be both safe and effective. Rather than something that hasn't. I don't know how "natural" comes into it at all. I don't even know what it means.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #211  
    Moderator Moderator Cogito Ergo Sum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    2,507
    Member Thunk, I shall post this only once:

    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #212  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    60
    Does it make sense to compare DE to sand?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #213  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by RobinM View Post
    Does it make sense to compare DE to sand?
    DE is very porous and has a great deal more surface area than sand. They use it in many filtering applications, like aquariums and swimming pools, although they also use sand filters in swimming pools. The claim is DE filters can filter bacteria and even viruses out of water, which is great for aquariums. Swimming pools use chlorine to control the germs and only need to filter what can be seen by the human eye.

    In the human gut, I'm not sure there's much difference between DE and sand, except the texture will be different while your eating it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #214 Sock Puppets Be Damned! 
    Groovy rocko42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2
    Hi all. Not a sock puppet, just haven't used this forum before. Set up an account, got a pic, all good.
    (there is an awesome sock puppet museum and theater in Detroit btw)

    Some things to chat with you about today. First, I had a great afternoon reading this thread and giggling and snarling and thinking, so thank you all for the fun time.

    On the DE front, I had never heard of DE until about a month ago. This middle-class new-agey friend of mine got some to get rid of a flea infestation in her shared apartment. It was a really bad infestation, but I never saw it. She claimed that the DE killed the fleas off in just a few days.

    So I went online to look into this stuff, thinking it was some phoney-hippy-dippy holistic nonsense. Obviously I was wrong- it is a legitimate product with certain legitimate features. Farmers put it in livestock food to keep parasites and such from becoming a problem. I wondered immediately- what about the effects on the livestock animals from eating so much DE in their food supply?

    But alas, the internet is swamped with unconfirmed, wildly exaggerated miracle health claims of various kinds. Too bad really, I would have liked to see some good information about the effects of long term ingestion by animals. And I read that DE is great for fleas and bedbugs, especially for poor people. That seems important enough ya know?

    If I go by the internet, well, DE can cure diabetes, chronic pain, intestinal infections, and can actually de-worm your pets for cheap (I really hope nobody neglects their pets by trying untested home-remedies for such serious illnesses!) But my pets are my friends! It is a direct offense to any loving pet owner to allow this kind of internet-sales-word-of-mouth-propoganda to spread this far yall.

    Whether DE ends up being shown to de-worm my pets or not, for people to even suggest that we try an untested, unverified, potentially deadly home remedy for an already life-threatening pet disease/infection, well, that is a shame. Shame on you! Jerks!

    Oh, don't forget that DE can give us stronger nails and hair, shiny hair, clear skin, and early morning energy. The YouTube video testaments of teens eating this stuff are pretty strange. How has DE suddenly become a cure-all? Most people I know have never heard of it, but any internet search will bring up Thousands of testimonials about the many uses for a seemingly, mostly useless product (yes, insect control for certain, obviously).

    So I bought some. (Here is where you say, "Ha! See! He's a fruit! I knew it!" lol). 10 lb bag. About 8 bucks, USD. Took forever to get, and here is why.

    Home Depot, nothing. Lowes only had DE plus toxic pesticides for gardens. Walmart only had it mixed with some super toxic and flesh burning chemical to kill ant hills. Meijer (Midwest store chain) didn't have it at all. Petco didn't have it. The upscale yuppie Organic Pet Store downtown didn't have it. Pet supplies Plus didn't have it. Even the trendy hipster Food Co-Op didn't have it (though they assured me they could order it if I wanted to place an order).

    The only place I could find it was at Tractor Supplies Plus, the store was out of town... and on the internet of course. Wow, you can get DE in like two Thousand places on the internet... but only one store in the Detroit area carries the Food Grade variety!? Anyway, so I bought a bag of Red Lake brand DE, its the darker stuff with some clay stuff in it too, "naturally enhanced with" Calcium Bentonite. Food Chemical Codex Grade. I am going to try it on the carpets and see what happens and tell you. I will not be eating this stuff, mostly because I am not a fanatically irrational internet craiglist blogger and also because I am not hungry.

    Red Lake has a descent website, almost, that sums up the info available of DE in a pretty honest way, mostly, more than other sites I looked at, such as 'lumino' or 'natureworks' who screamed totally unsupported claims. Theres a FAQ at redlakeearth dot com slash faq. It's suspect though.

    Red Lake's website is quite specific and explains the difference between Food Grade, Feed Grade, and Pool Grade, as well as saying multiple times that even Food Grade (or Food Chemical Codex Grade) DE is absolutely Not approved for human consumption.

    By the way. I read today that the main difference between Food Chem Codex Grade and human consumption safe foods is the ammount of heavy metals in the product. Everyday safe foodstuffs are okayed as end result foods. Food Chem Codex Grade is a standard that means it is not safe to use as end result food. It can go into the food, but shouldn't ever just be fed to the animals, or people. Because it has various stuff in it, depending where it came from. Sometimes heavy metals. Ick.

    Just when I think that Red Lake is trust-worthy, I notice these comments on each page, near the bottom, all about "making decisions for yourself" and "they can't be responsible" and "It is advised that you conduct your own research on the benefits of diatomaceous earth in order to make an informed personal decision." These kinds of statements are totally directed at the 'I hate synthetic things arbitrarily' and 'natural is always best' target audiences. Okay, sure, they start off saying that there have been no studies to show its benefits (or not!) either way, so that's honest, I guess. But why say that at all?

    WTF? Conduct my own research on the benefits of... wha?? I'm sorry, did I miss something here? Are everyday people like me who purchase products like this, medically experienced or trained, in some way? Are we qualified in some way to "conduct" materials science "research" on ourselves and our animals? And then to tell our friends and random strangers on the internet to do the same? When did we all become scientific biology self experimenters? And they think I am knowledgeable enough to decide if I should or should not ingest a substance that I heard about last month for a flea treatment from a 19 year old yuppie chick who can't keep a job more than 3 months but Knows For Sure That This Stuff Is Good For Me?!? This is unaccountable and unethical business practice here...

    So ask yourself: Why is there a huge statement at the bottom of the page, all about human consumption? It reads simultaneously like a warning, then a disclosure of lack of evidence, then a disclaimer, then a shameless advertisement. For a product that is being sold for completely different purposes? Who would have even thought about human consumption? Without purpose? Why is this information here if not to suggest something?

    If they wanted to post a true disclaimer, there would be no risky silliness about "conducting your own research". We are not researchers, we are consumers. We have to be protected from things that cause cancer in the state of California, or told with sticker-signs not close our toddlers in large tupperware containers. We do not go out and research million year old diatom remains and it's clinically proven effects positive and negative on the human body... right??

    It's like they are marketing to people who are already a certain type of fanatic, that kind that attaches to any half-truth that seems to show how nature is always better than technology. And that other type who cant help but think any conspiratorial idea may be true...

    That's it. Its a conspiratorial statement, there at the bottom. That is why it gets under my skin. It is not sanitized, it is not poetic, it is not business as usual, it's not even interesting. It is a vague implication of some conspiracy to keep DE from being 'accepted' by the 'powers that be' as safe and/or healthy for human consumption. And that vague implication of a secret agenda is there so that some people who are gullible or easily attach to these things will see it and believe it and tell others about it with no real evidence either way.

    It seems to me that Red Lake, and other companies like this, either:

    a) have received enough requests about human consumption that they decided to include the information at the bottom of the site,
    b) know that there are rumors about human consumption, and so they are playing to these rumors, hoping that some people will purchase their product for human consumption as well as for it's more common uses.
    or c) these companies selling DE could be the sources of the human consumption rumors in the first place, drumming up interest in their failing product.

    I don't know, this seems like a huge mistake for any established company in this country. They could be culpable, maybe. They would basically be considered to be encouraging human consumption, even though they posted a warning. But then... I don't know. Thoughts?

    ---
    Ninja Pancakes likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #215  
    Groovy rocko42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2
    And why all the CL sock puppets anyway? Where do they come from?
    ---

    All over the internet are these puppets, and let me tell you, I used to work tech-support, and these snake oil trolls are totally set up like tech support! Do you see the patterns, how in different forums, for different stuff all over the net, if you say something against a product of some kind, all a sudden some puppet with no site history shows up to tell you you're wrong or start a flame war and stir up points for the post.

    Lots of forums, lots of topics, all over netdom. And what you see is that you bust the nuts of one of the sockpups, and suddenly they disappear and a smarter sock pup takes their place. And the more they lose the argument/flame war with the forum members, the more educated each successive pup is, and then the pups start to have profile pics and historys with 100 instead of 20 lifetime posts on the site... but no affiliations... no friends... why??

    Because the person handling this particular forum's 'buy diatomaceous earth to eat! it cures what ales ya' paid-sock-puppet-nobody could not handle what was happening, and recognized that they should 'escalate' the issue to level 2, their supervisor, or a specialist in a certain area. And when that got even more out of control (which they LOVE because now more google searches bring up This Thread and more suckers will see bogus pseudo-science info!) it was escalated even further...

    And then yall got a very nice apology, seemingly polite and over kind, in a totally different voicing than the previous posts...

    Of course, that apology ended with more questions about human consumption... beginning even more conversation about this one specific and unsupported idea. Because they have a more advanced account as the supervisor, to catch stuff like this and spin it the way they originally meant for it to go. Flame on, ya know? But then that supervisor can't handle it and can't play like the victim anymore, so then his manager comes along and says, "Ok Bob, you're done here, that won't work on this site. Let's try this instead, here, I will do it. You go over there and stir up interest in this other lower level rumor on another forum". Incoming!

    I say again: who even thought we should eat this stuff and why? We don't feed it to animals to help them- we feed it to them because it is harmless and has a special physical makeup that can kill very little vermin in the animals' food buckets. Nobody has any reason to think it helps the animals internally or us either. Where are any links to any studies that have anything to do with positive effects of consumption? The chickens, really?

    Now, I'm not saying that DE doesn't. I don't know that. Neither do you. Because no one has tested it. Because they had no reason to. Now, maybe they will test it. Or maybe there is still no reason to. I will not be testing it myself, that is ridiculous. Some kid will eat enough and die from it, or just get real sick. And then they'll do a study on it. And the study will show: don't eat it. Or do eat it, and in these amounts. It will probably say DONT EAT THIS, DUH. That is my guess

    Nobel my ass! Edison and Curie? Are you kidding me? Are they comparing themselves eating dirt, for no reason other than the internet said to do it, with brilliant scientists who dedicated their minds and lives to discovery, experimentation, perseverance and scientific progress? What nonsense. Show a simple study of livestock animals who ingest DE and ones that do not, which some noticeable difference between the two.

    And if you do, every farmer in the world will suddenly care a Whole Lot about what you've just discovered. Billionaire. Overnight.

    Otherwise, this is all just a ton of net-hype for many egotistical, self-righteous, self proclaimed organic health companies, who are selling you dirt, again.

    Ill let you all know what happens this week as I use the DE on the carpet (the friend said it sticks bad to wood floors btw, hard to clean off) and maybe on the pets, for the fleas. I am hesitant to put it on the pets b/c that seems quite foolish after writing all of this... so I won't. We do have ants too, so we'll see what happens. Peace.
    Ninja Pancakes likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #216  
    New Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    To be honest it is too good to be true, how is something that passes through the digestive tract and does not come in contact with the blood system at any point affecting your blood pressure? Or to put it another way, how have you ruled out placebo effects?
    My understanding is that much of what ails us are actually symptoms brought about from toxins in our systems; many toxins are the resulting waste product formed by adverse bacteria and/or intestinal parasites. The presence of some of these toxins in the system can manifest in a myriad of symptoms, ranging from anaphylactic shock to obesity, migraines to lethargy, arthritis to, yes, high blood pressure. It is our body's reaction to the presence of a particular toxin.

    Diatomaceous earth may be killing off those parasites via dehydration or by literally scrubbing/scaping them from intestinal wall. Thus, the diversity in surprise health benefits - toxins we weren't aware of, suddenly gone. (Skin smooth, blood pressure down, joints free of pain, or whatever...)

    So, it does not need to enter the circulatory system in order to be effective. These toxins are absorbed. The diamataceous earth is not. It simply gets rid of the source of the toxins.

    My greater concern would be that it may be killing off the "good" bacteria, too, in which case one should use it for a limited period of time, perhaps until the symptoms were improved.

    Note: I should add that some symptoms, such as high blood pressure, are often the result of other disease (circulatory, neuro, etc.), in which case diamataceous earth would probably not be helpful, unless THAT disease was caused by bacterial/parasitic toxins...
    Last edited by cursichella; October 20th, 2013 at 06:38 PM. Reason: add note
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #217  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,585
    Quote Originally Posted by cursichella View Post
    My understanding is that much of what ails us are actually symptoms brought about from toxins in our systems
    Citation needed.
    Flick Montana and babe like this.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #218  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,225
    Citation very much needed
    Flick Montana likes this.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #219  
    Forum Freshman Lazy Jester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Halifax NS
    Posts
    47
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cursichella View Post
    My understanding is that much of what ails us are actually symptoms brought about from toxins in our systems
    Citation needed.
    GIGA! Garbage in, garbage out... Ahhh crap (pun intended), that only applies to computer science I guess.
    Common sense is like deodorant...The people who need it most never use it.
    ~Unknown
    If I'm going to be an ass, might as well be a smart one.
    ~Me
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #220  
    Forum Freshman Lazy Jester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Halifax NS
    Posts
    47
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    It also applies to "theories" by people who think watching crank videos on Yootube counts as an education...
    LOL I love Yootube, helps me with my edumication. What can I say, I'm a polymath wannabe.

    Love your quote BTW. Those who know the least know it the loudest type of thing.
    babe likes this.
    Common sense is like deodorant...The people who need it most never use it.
    ~Unknown
    If I'm going to be an ass, might as well be a smart one.
    ~Me
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #221  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    I am asking what peer reviewed articles two of your assertions were from.
    Didn't he already let you know how to access those articles (i.e. Google Scholar)? Stop stalling, look it up, and post counter arguments, so I can decide if I should DE a shot or not.

    So far, you've convinced me of the following: DE is cheap and at worst... ...inert.

    Oh, you were making a lot of sense until you were confronted with some actual logic and science and decided to resort to stalling...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #222  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by Locomotivo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    I am asking what peer reviewed articles two of your assertions were from.
    Didn't he already let you know how to access those articles (i.e. Google Scholar)? Stop stalling, look it up, and post counter arguments, so I can decide if I should DE a shot or not.

    So far, you've convinced me of the following: DE is cheap and at worst... ...inert.

    Oh, you were making a lot of sense until you were confronted with some actual logic and science and decided to resort to stalling...
    Let's see, your planning on eating something new and you want someone else to do the research for you. That makes me wonder how old you are and why are you still alive?
    KALSTER, RedPanda and babe like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #223  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    4,591
    Quote Originally Posted by Locomotivo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    I am asking what peer reviewed articles two of your assertions were from.
    Didn't he already let you know how to access those articles (i.e. Google Scholar)? Stop stalling, look it up, and post counter arguments, so I can decide if I should DE a shot or not.

    So far, you've convinced me of the following: DE is cheap and at worst... ...inert.

    Oh, you were making a lot of sense until you were confronted with some actual logic and science and decided to resort to stalling...
    Clearly you did not read the following sequence of posts where the links provided were discussed.
    Cogito Ergo Sum likes this.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #224  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Clearly you did not read the following sequence of posts where the links provided were discussed.
    Apologies. I unfortunately noticed those after I posted.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  25. #225  
    Forum Freshman Lazy Jester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Halifax NS
    Posts
    47
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Let's see, your planning on eating something new and you want someone else to do the research for you. That makes me wonder how old you are and why are you still alive?
    No no no, nothing to do with research. Most people ask advise on decisions they have already made just to have a scapegoat to blame once the result of their decision blows up in their face. "...but doctor, someone on the Science Forum said..."

    If I ever decide to try DE as a supplement and it blows up in my face, I'll blame myself.

    As for still being alive, never discount young fool's luck. My motto use to be: "Live fast, die young and leave a good-looking corpse." Well, too freaking late for that. So now, I just live fast and hope that old fool's luck will grant me enough time. The good-looking corpse part needs a lot of work.

    Did I mention I was built like a god?... Buddha!
    babe likes this.
    Common sense is like deodorant...The people who need it most never use it.
    ~Unknown
    If I'm going to be an ass, might as well be a smart one.
    ~Me
    Reply With Quote  
     

  26. #226  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    6
    [QUOTE=Bad Robot;481927]
    Quote Originally Posted by Locomotivo View Post
    Let's see, your planning on eating something new and you want someone else to do the research for you. That makes me wonder how old you are and why are you still alive?
    Well, yes, why not? People here seem eager post what they know. I suppose you do your own double blind studies for every new item you add you your diet... Seems like an undue waste of my resources. Then again so is responding to some douche on the web.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  27. #227  
    Forum Freshman Lazy Jester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Halifax NS
    Posts
    47
    [QUOTE=Locomotivo;482433]
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Locomotivo View Post
    Let's see, your planning on eating something new and you want someone else to do the research for you. That makes me wonder how old you are and why are you still alive?
    Well, yes, why not? People here seem eager post what they know. I suppose you do your own double blind studies for every new item you add you your diet... Seems like an undue waste of my resources. Then again so is responding to some douche on the web.
    You post demands on a thread you didn't bother to read completely and once you acknowledge your lack of thoroughness you insult those who had legitimate reasons to poke fun at you. Maybe you're overdue to invest some of your obviously limited resources to figuring out who is the real douche on the web here. Should you have any precious left over resources, you might find it enlightening to do a search on self-entitlement.

    I would also encourage you to resist the urge to enter a battle of wits unarmed.
    Common sense is like deodorant...The people who need it most never use it.
    ~Unknown
    If I'm going to be an ass, might as well be a smart one.
    ~Me
    Reply With Quote  
     

  28. #228  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy Jester View Post
    You post demands on a thread you didn't bother to read completely and once you acknowledge your lack of thoroughness you insult those who had legitimate reasons to poke fun at you. Maybe you're overdue to invest some of your obviously limited resources to figuring out who is the real douche on the web here. Should you have any precious left over resources, you might find it enlightening to do a search on self-entitlement.

    I would also encourage you to resist the urge to enter a battle of wits unarmed.
    1. I apologized for not noticing the thread didn't end on that page. I think Paleoichneum has gotten over it...

    2. So your criticism is, in essence, that I'm lucky to be alive because I'm willing to ask for advice from people that seem to know a tad more than I do? And don't worry, I wasn't asking you, troll. It is pretty obvious that would be a waste of time...

    3. When you copy someone else's words verbatim, you should cite your source, especially when it is so painfully obvious you did not come up with them. What's worse that entering a battle of wits unarmed? Thinking mimicry will achieve the same results as wits.

    4. I have started trying DE and so far here is my assessment:
    a. It tastes fine enough at first (kind of like milk), but the aftertaste is disgusting (probably a sign from my body that I don't need to eat this shit).
    b. It does absolutely nothing of note except make you feel full for an hour or so (which may or may not have value to dieters, not to me). By absolutely nothing I mean: no shitting of parasites (which the hucksters claim most us walk around having), no improvement in recovery time from workouts, no dramatic improvement in joint aches and pains (I unfortunately started a new stretching regimen at the same time which could account for the slight reduction of minor joint issues due to training).
    c. My shit seems to sink more (yes sink, not stink): as in with 2 tbsp/day it less buoyant. This may come in hand for you pond/lake shitters that want to go incognito...
    d. I'm giving it 2 more days and then finding some other use for it (like sprinkling it in the basement where I sometimes see ants pass in the summer).
    e. Sorry no blood tests to go with this sample size of one experiment. Maybe next experiment. Anyone ever use an online source for complete blood workups? Any recommendations. There again, looking for advice in a Science forum. Silly me.

    5. That should give you guys plenty of fodder, for your usual, non-factual/non-scientific programming.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  29. #229  
    New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1
    Hello, Can you tell me what the name of the company is out of the 4 you have mentioned that uses almost all Melosira Preicelanica diatoms, which have a consistent tubular shape with a very porous micro abrasive wall and can absorb 1 /12 times it weight. The shape and porosity of this particular diatom dramatically increases it's benefits for consumption by humans and animals. I am very interested in that particular brand. I am currently trying the Celatom brand and have been ingesting it for less than a week now. Thank you, Chris
    Reply With Quote  
     

  30. #230  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,585
    Quote Originally Posted by BAJACRACKER View Post
    The shape and porosity of this particular diatom dramatically increases it's benefits for consumption by humans and animals.
    Citation needed.

    (I know, the haters will have a go at me for mentioning it. <shrug>)

    Can you tell me what the name of the company is
    P.T. Barnum?
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
    Reply With Quote  
     

  31. #231  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by BAJACRACKER View Post
    Hello, Can you tell me what the name of the company is out of the 4 you have mentioned that uses almost all Melosira Preicelanica diatoms, which have a consistent tubular shape with a very porous micro abrasive wall and can absorb 1 /12 times it weight. The shape and porosity of this particular diatom dramatically increases it's benefits for consumption by humans and animals. I am very interested in that particular brand. I am currently trying the Celatom brand and have been ingesting it for less than a week now. Thank you, Chris
    I've never been clear on the difference between regular DE and food grade DE. I think they are only referring to how it's been cleaned. However I would think they might also wish to cut down on the abrasiveness of it. Seems like if it's to abrasive it has a higher probability of causing damage to the gut as it passes through. But none of my searching has been able to verify it one way or the other. You wouldn't happen to know would you?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  32. #232  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Flatland
    Posts
    5,438
    Wow....if you just Google Melosira Preiclanica, the first and pretty much only returns are food grade DE spam and pseudomedical blog posts. Is this even a real organism?
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
    Reply With Quote  
     

  33. #233  
    Forum Professor Daecon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,276
    Are there any creatures that naturally eat diatoms as part of their food chain?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  34. #234  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,585
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    I've never been clear on the difference between regular DE and food grade DE. I think they are only referring to how it's been cleaned. However I would think they might also wish to cut down on the abrasiveness of it. Seems like if it's to abrasive it has a higher probability of causing damage to the gut as it passes through. But none of my searching has been able to verify it one way or the other. You wouldn't happen to know would you?
    Non food-grade is heat-treated. This actually makes it less abrasive but means that there is a higher silica content and so it is more likely to cause silicosis.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
    Reply With Quote  
     

  35. #235  
    Moderator Moderator Cogito Ergo Sum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    2,507
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Wow....if you just Google Melosira Preiclanica, the first and pretty much only returns are food grade DE spam and pseudomedical blog posts. Is this even a real organism?

    I could not find the organism in Public Algaebase, nor did any records appear in Google Scholar.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  36. #236  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    Are there any creatures that naturally eat diatoms as part of their food chain?
    Besides humans? I'm sure animals that live next DE deposits ingest a fair amount with whatever the it. Other than that:
    Let me google that for you
    Reply With Quote  
     

  37. #237  
    Forum Freshman Lazy Jester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Halifax NS
    Posts
    47
    Quote Originally Posted by Locomotivo View Post
    1. I apologized for not noticing the thread didn't end on that page. I think Paleoichneum has gotten over it...
    I fail to see that point. However, in the original post you deleted instead of editing: "I apologized for not noticing the thread didn't end on that page. I think Paleoichneum has forgiven me. So, get over it." To that statement, I would have replied that it is very difficult to get over something I was never on to begin with. I did refer to your apology as the acknowledgement of your lack of thoroughness. I can see how easily missed that reference could be if you were raised to expect a celebration of every menial things you do as if it was a major accomplishment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Locomotivo View Post
    2. So your criticism is, in essence, that I'm lucky to be alive because I'm willing to ask for advice from people that seem to know a tad more than I do? And don't worry, I wasn't asking you, troll. It is pretty obvious that would be a waste of time...
    Not at all, the essence of my criticism is that the tone of your posts reek of self entitlement. Those posts are giving me the impression that their author is a conceited spoiled brat making childish demands, responding to legitimate hazing with insults and blurting barely veiled passive aggressive innuendos instead of pondering valid points. Trolling is usually aimed at provoking or upsetting a community and in that sense my earlier post was not trolling but rather a very mild flaming post intended to draw your attention to how your behavior is perceived. Contrary to your assumption, and the general consensus of this forum towards DE, I have a genuine interest in DE. Although there is no scientific evidence, some of the anecdotal evidence and what I learned about the properties of DE lead me to believe that there may still be some benefits to its consumption by humans with minimal possibility of adverse effects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Locomotivo View Post
    3. When you copy someone else's words verbatim, you should cite your source, especially when it is so painfully obvious you did not come up with them. What's worse that entering a battle of wits unarmed? Thinking mimicry will achieve the same results as wits.
    Maybe my nick threw you off; I am lazy physically but not intellectually. I do try my best to give credit where it is due but sometimes I miss something and I will gladly acknowledge unaccredited quotes once they are referenced. Once more your lack of thoroughness shines through by failing to support your claim and present proof of my alleged plagiarism. The only painfully obvious thing here is your misconception that somehow simply stating something makes it true or relevant. In a battle of wits you have to be able to back your arguments. Even if your allegation was true, mimicry would still require a level of wit if used to make a valid point. So, to answer your rhetorical question more accurately: Entering a battle of wits thinking that your butter knife is a lethal weapon is worse than showing up unarmed.

    Finally, thank you for sharing your random observations. Not much "fodder" for the scientists here as they will dismiss your method-less and anecdotal account. Nonetheless, non scientists like me appreciate it.


    Last edited by Lazy Jester; November 8th, 2013 at 01:07 AM. Reason: Font size
    Common sense is like deodorant...The people who need it most never use it.
    ~Unknown
    If I'm going to be an ass, might as well be a smart one.
    ~Me
    Reply With Quote  
     

  38. #238  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    6
    1. There is no form of hazing that can be deemed "legitimate."
    2. There is however fair criticism. Yes, I come across as a douche online, mostly. So much so that I might even have to admit that I be a douche. But, in this case, my intent was not to exhibit the self-entitlement* but to move the discussion along through the use of sarcasm.
    3. I stopped DE when I got a fever (which I currently deem to be completely unrelated). Will have to retry/resume drinking DE and water at some date in the future.


    * You are 100% correct in your assessment however: in my experience there are two kinds of people, those that ask and get, and those that whine and get to whine about how they get nothing.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  39. #239  
    New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    4
    If diatomaceous earth mixed with stomach acid or other bodily fluids turns into orthosilicic acid it would help with collagen growth. I have not researched that enough to know for sure if that does happen.

    Go to wikipedia and look at the article about silicic acid it has the links to the studies that state "In conclusion, orthosilicic acid at physiological concentrations stimulates collagen type 1 synthesis in human osteoblast-like cells and enhances osteoblastic differentiation."

    I think it is definitely worth researching more to see if DE does help with bone and collagen. After finding that study it doesn't make the claim that people had joint improvements so unrealistic.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  40. #240  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Newcastle-upon-Tyne, UK
    Posts
    4,496
    Talk about vaguely clutching at straws find some evidence for your first 'if' statement other than your imagination and propose how it is absorbed through the gut and gets to the joints and you may have the first step towards a viable hypothesis. As it stands, not even close.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  41. #241  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,585
    At best, you have moved the idea to "not impossible". Although, to be fair, it was probably there already; it just lacked any evidence. And it still does.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
    Reply With Quote  
     

  42. #242  
    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,737
    Quote Originally Posted by amyprry View Post
    If diatomaceous earth mixed with stomach acid or other bodily fluids turns into orthosilicic acid it would help with collagen growth. I have not researched that enough to know for sure if that does happen.

    Go to wikipedia and look at the article about silicic acid it has the links to the studies that state "In conclusion, orthosilicic acid at physiological concentrations stimulates collagen type 1 synthesis in human osteoblast-like cells and enhances osteoblastic differentiation."

    I think it is definitely worth researching more to see if DE does help with bone and collagen. After finding that study it doesn't make the claim that people had joint improvements so unrealistic.
    If true, why not just ingest orthosilicic acid?
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  43. #243  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by amyprry View Post
    If diatomaceous earth mixed with stomach acid or other bodily fluids turns into orthosilicic acid it would help with collagen growth. I have not researched that enough to know for sure if that does happen.

    Go to wikipedia and look at the article about silicic acid it has the links to the studies that state "In conclusion, orthosilicic acid at physiological concentrations stimulates collagen type 1 synthesis in human osteoblast-like cells and enhances osteoblastic differentiation."

    I think it is definitely worth researching more to see if DE does help with bone and collagen. After finding that study it doesn't make the claim that people had joint improvements so unrealistic.
    If true, why not just ingest orthosilicic acid?
    It is sold as a supplement in capsule form, also see this write up about it.

    Silicon supplement, orthosilicic acid health benefit, side effects
    Reply With Quote  
     

  44. #244  
    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,737
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    It is sold as a supplement in capsule form, also see this write up about it.
    Ok.
    So why eat diatomaceous earth?
    (This question is directed to anyone.)
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  45. #245  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,585
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    So why eat diatomaceous earth?
    (This question is directed to anyone.)
    Because, like, its like, you know, natural? (We will quickly skip over the fact that is it mined and processed on an industrial scale by the same Evil Capitalists that are trying to control the world...)
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
    Reply With Quote  
     

  46. #246  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Newcastle-upon-Tyne, UK
    Posts
    4,496
    ...because it's twice as good as monoatomaceous earth... •gets coat•
    Reply With Quote  
     

  47. #247  
    New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    4
    Maybe because DE is much cheaper that the orthosilicic acid supplement.

    "Naturally occurring silicic acid is produced by a non-biological process called hydration involving water, and quartz, which is known to be common on Earth. The reaction producing silicic acid from quartz can be written as: Quartz + WaterSilicic acid, or (in balanced form): SiO2 + 2 H2O → SiH4O4." from wikipedia article about silicic acid

    Silicic acid SiH4O4

    Biogenic Silica SiO2·nH2O this is the major type of silica found in Food grade diatomaceous earth

    Orthosilicic acid H4SiO4


    The question is can biogenic silica plus water or other things in your stomach become orthosilicic acid?

    Is there any chemist on this board that could help?

    I got all the chemical formulas and equations from wikipedia
    Reply With Quote  
     

  48. #248  
    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,737
    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    ...because it's twice as good as monoatomaceous earth... •gets coat•
    Is it too late to get that post deleted as well? :P
    PhDemon likes this.
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  49. #249  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    It is sold as a supplement in capsule form, also see this write up about it.
    Ok.
    So why eat diatomaceous earth?
    (This question is directed to anyone.)
    I have no idea and can't see any good reason to eat it myself. But when you take into account some of the very bad things people ingest, DE doesn't sound so bad by comparison.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  50. #250  
    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,737
    Quote Originally Posted by amyprry View Post
    Naturally occurring silicic acid is produced by a non-biological process called hydration involving water, and quartz, which is known to be common on Earth. The reaction producing silicic acid from quartz can be written as: Quartz + Water → Silicic acid, or (in balanced form): SiO2 + 2 H2O → SiH4O4.
    Just some well-intentioned advice: it frowned upon to not clearly indicate when something is not your own words.
    In this instance one would be hard pushed to find anything disingenuous about it - so this is purely for future reference.

    Quote Originally Posted by amyprry View Post
    The question is can biogenic silica plus water or other things in your stomach become orthosilicic acid?
    Is there any chemist on this board that could help?
    There are some very bright chemists on this forum, so *fingers crossed*.
    amyprry likes this.
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  51. #251  
    New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    4
    [QUOTE=RedPanda;490051]
    Quote Originally Posted by amyprry View Post
    Naturally occurring silicic acid is produced by a non-biological process called hydration involving water, and quartz, which is known to be common on Earth. The reaction producing silicic acid from quartz can be written as: Quartz + Water → Silicic acid, or (in balanced form): SiO2 + 2 H2O → SiH4O4.
    Just some well-intentioned advice: it frowned upon to not clearly indicate when something is not your own words.
    In this instance one would be hard pushed to find anything disingenuous about it - so this is purely for future reference.

    I caught that and edited it with quotes and said it was from the wikipedia article.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  52. #252  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Newcastle-upon-Tyne, UK
    Posts
    4,496
    I'm guessing not, what conditions doesthe hydration reaction require? The stomach contains a concentrated aqueous solution of hydrochloric acid, silica does not react with HCl, so from a chemists point of view I think it will just sit there till nature takes its course...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  53. #253  
    exchemist
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,616
    Quote Originally Posted by amyprry View Post
    Maybe because DE is much cheaper that the orthosilicic acid supplement.

    "Naturally occurring silicic acid is produced by a non-biological process called hydration involving water, and quartz, which is known to be common on Earth. The reaction producing silicic acid from quartz can be written as: Quartz + WaterSilicic acid, or (in balanced form): SiO2 + 2 H2O → SiH4O4." from wikipedia article about silicic acid

    Silicic acid SiH4O4

    Biogenic Silica SiO2·nH2O this is the major type of silica found in Food grade diatomaceous earth

    Orthosilicic acid H4SiO4


    The question is can biogenic silica plus water or other things in your stomach become orthosilicic acid?

    Is there any chemist on this board that could help?

    I got all the chemical formulas and equations from wikipedia
    I really doubt this will have any significance.

    Firstly the Wiki article you cite makes clear the way to generate silicic acid is from a water-soluble silicate mineral, such as sodium silicate, not from silica itself, which is what diatomaceous earth is.

    Secondly, as the article points out, silicic acid is unstable and readily loses water….to form silica…which is insoluble, i.e. back to square one. So the equilibrium between quartz and silicic acid is against you all the way and you're barely going to get any from eating this stuff. The pH of your stomach may help a bit but not much, I think. After all, we chemists happily handle far stronger acids than what is your stomach in glass (silica) vessels and they do not dissolve!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  54. #254  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by amyprry View Post
    Maybe because DE is much cheaper that the orthosilicic acid supplement.

    "Naturally occurring silicic acid is produced by a non-biological process called hydration involving water, and quartz, which is known to be common on Earth. The reaction producing silicic acid from quartz can be written as: Quartz + WaterSilicic acid, or (in balanced form): SiO2 + 2 H2O → SiH4O4." from wikipedia article about silicic acid

    Silicic acid SiH4O4

    Biogenic Silica SiO2·nH2O this is the major type of silica found in Food grade diatomaceous earth

    Orthosilicic acid H4SiO4


    The question is can biogenic silica plus water or other things in your stomach become orthosilicic acid?

    Is there any chemist on this board that could help?

    I got all the chemical formulas and equations from wikipedia
    I really doubt this will have any significance.

    Firstly the Wiki article you cite makes clear the way to generate silicic acid is from a water-soluble silicate mineral, such as sodium silicate, not from silica itself, which is what diatomaceous earth is.

    Secondly, as the article points out, silicic acid is unstable and readily loses water….to form silica…which is insoluble, i.e. back to square one. So the equilibrium between quartz and silicic acid is against you all the way and you're barely going to get any from eating this stuff. The pH of your stomach may help a bit but not much, I think. After all, we chemists happily handle far stronger acids than what is your stomach in glass (silica) vessels and they do not dissolve!
    If you need to dissolve glass, try the link below.

    Hexafluorosilicic acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Reply With Quote  
     

  55. #255  
    exchemist
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,616
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by amyprry View Post
    Maybe because DE is much cheaper that the orthosilicic acid supplement.

    "Naturally occurring silicic acid is produced by a non-biological process called hydration involving water, and quartz, which is known to be common on Earth. The reaction producing silicic acid from quartz can be written as: Quartz + WaterSilicic acid, or (in balanced form): SiO2 + 2 H2O → SiH4O4." from wikipedia article about silicic acid

    Silicic acid SiH4O4

    Biogenic Silica SiO2·nH2O this is the major type of silica found in Food grade diatomaceous earth

    Orthosilicic acid H4SiO4


    The question is can biogenic silica plus water or other things in your stomach become orthosilicic acid?

    Is there any chemist on this board that could help?

    I got all the chemical formulas and equations from wikipedia
    I really doubt this will have any significance.

    Firstly the Wiki article you cite makes clear the way to generate silicic acid is from a water-soluble silicate mineral, such as sodium silicate, not from silica itself, which is what diatomaceous earth is.

    Secondly, as the article points out, silicic acid is unstable and readily loses water….to form silica…which is insoluble, i.e. back to square one. So the equilibrium between quartz and silicic acid is against you all the way and you're barely going to get any from eating this stuff. The pH of your stomach may help a bit but not much, I think. After all, we chemists happily handle far stronger acids than what is your stomach in glass (silica) vessels and they do not dissolve!
    If you need to dissolve glass, try the link below.

    Hexafluorosilicic acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Eh? What? We don't.

    The point is you don't get silicic acid by just stirring up a load of silica particles in 1/10th molar HCl solution - which is what your stomach contains.

    That's all.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  56. #256  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Eh? What? We don't.

    The point is you don't get silicic acid by just stirring up a load of silica particles in 1/10th molar HCl solution - which is what your stomach contains.

    That's all.
    True, I was just providing an example to the stronger acid you eluded to.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  57. #257  
    New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    4
    Thanks for all of your answers. I was just curious because diatoms make their skeletons by taking the orthosilicic acid from the water around them and turning it into biogenic silica. I just wondered if our bodies could reverse the process.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  58. #258  
    New Member mamad123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    semarang, central java
    Posts
    2
    Its better to check previous study
    Reply With Quote  
     

  59. #259  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,465
    Hell, just eat dirt.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  60. #260  
    Forum Professor Daecon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,276
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Hell, just eat dirt.
    Well it *is* organic, after all. So it's got to be healthy, right?
    babe and Ninja Pancakes like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  61. #261  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,465
    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Hell, just eat dirt.
    Well it *is* organic, after all. So it's got to be healthy, right?
    I do not know of a child that hasn't eaten dirt. None of us died. None of us ever did it again either.....ya think that is a clue about something?

    Oh and so is cow poop....and we don't eat that either...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  62. #262  
    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,737
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Oh and so is cow poop....and we don't eat that either...
    My dog liked horse apples*.
    And, other than the reprimand, they never did her any harm.
    But I still wouldn't encourage their consumption.

    * Just checked, and 'horse apples' appears to be a local phrase. It means 'horse poo'.
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  63. #263  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,465
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Oh and so is cow poop....and we don't eat that either...
    My dog liked horse apples.
    And, other than the reprimand, they never did her any harm.
    But I still wouldn't encourage their consumption.
    *laughing*......well who'd of known!! First that you owned a horse! I learn a little about you every month or so! *L*...I am such an open book....but *cough* I have secrets too.....that would shock the scientific community!!!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  64. #264  
    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,737
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    *laughing*......well who'd of known!! First that you owned a horse! I learn a little about you every month or so! *L*...I am such an open book....but *cough* I have secrets too.....that would shock the scientific community!!!
    No no. I only owned a dog.
    But I lived in an area where people owned horses.

    Nowadays, the only horse poo I see is from the police horses.
    babe likes this.
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  65. #265  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Hell, just eat dirt.
    Well it *is* organic, after all. So it's got to be healthy, right?
    No it's not organic any more than sand would be, but it would have a finer texture than sand, still don't want to eat it though.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  66. #266  
    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,737
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Hell, just eat dirt.
    Well it *is* organic, after all. So it's got to be healthy, right?
    No it's not organic any more than sand would be, but it would have a finer texture than sand, still don't want to eat it though.
    If by 'dirt' Babe means 'soil', then isn't that mostly worm poo? (i.e. organic)
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  67. #267  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,465
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Hell, just eat dirt.
    Well it *is* organic, after all. So it's got to be healthy, right?
    No it's not organic any more than sand would be, but it would have a finer texture than sand, still don't want to eat it though.
    DO you not think that possibly the texture would be better???????
    Reply With Quote  
     

  68. #268  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,465
    Red Demon...... I see horses on the Mainland all the time.....and cow and sheep, and deer....here I only see goats, donkeys, turkeys and chickens.....wandering....and if they don't eat DIRT!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  69. #269  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Hell, just eat dirt.
    Well it *is* organic, after all. So it's got to be healthy, right?
    No it's not organic any more than sand would be, but it would have a finer texture than sand, still don't want to eat it though.
    DO you not think that possibly the texture would be better???????
    yummmmmmmmmmmmm!!!
    babe likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  70. #270  
    Forum Professor Daecon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,276
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Hell, just eat dirt.
    Well it *is* organic, after all. So it's got to be healthy, right?
    No it's not organic any more than sand would be, but it would have a finer texture than sand, still don't want to eat it though.
    Sand is silica, dirt is mostly decomposed vegetable matter as far as I know (with the occasional animal dropping).
    Reply With Quote  
     

  71. #271  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Daecon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Hell, just eat dirt.
    Well it *is* organic, after all. So it's got to be healthy, right?
    No it's not organic any more than sand would be, but it would have a finer texture than sand, still don't want to eat it though.
    Sand is silica, dirt is mostly decomposed vegetable matter as far as I know (with the occasional animal dropping).
    I thought you were referring to DE. As far as dirt goes, it's a mix of sand and decaying organic stuff of all kinds and includes millions of living things of all kinds, some of them might be parasitic to humans, and if you were going to eat it. I would be very discussed and grossed out watching you do it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  72. #272  
    Forum Professor Daecon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,276
    I just had a flashback to Star trek: Voyager where Kes had cravings for mashed potatoes mixed with "nitrogenated soil".
    Reply With Quote  
     

  73. #273  
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Ok.
    So why eat diatomaceous earth?
    (This question is directed to anyone.)
    I actually eat it as a substitute to something that is extremely harmful that I crave because I have PICA and the prescribed vitamins can only do so much. That's probably the only legitimate reason to consume it I can think of, otherwise it's just a benign silica powder that just works really well at getting rid of bugs. The only reason I am on this forum is to make sure the edible DA really has no effects, positive or negative. Which seems to be the general consensus.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  74. #274  
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    1,990
    Quote Originally Posted by MystryFlvr View Post
    I actually eat it as a substitute to something that is extremely harmful that I crave because I have PICA and the prescribed vitamins can only do so much. That's probably the only legitimate reason to consume it I can think of.
    OK. I couldn't think of a good reason to eat it, but my mistake - that IS a good reason.
    adelady, babe and Cogito Ergo Sum like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  75. #275  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by MystryFlvr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Ok.
    So why eat diatomaceous earth?
    (This question is directed to anyone.)
    I actually eat it as a substitute to something that is extremely harmful that I crave because I have PICA and the prescribed vitamins can only do so much. That's probably the only legitimate reason to consume it I can think of, otherwise it's just a benign silica powder that just works really well at getting rid of bugs. The only reason I am on this forum is to make sure the edible DA really has no effects, positive or negative. Which seems to be the general consensus.
    If I may ask, how did PICA manifest with you? I've seen movies where coins seem to be a favorite item to eat, and there was a program where pins and nails were eaten and even one where a magnet was eaten. It seems to me that if you know how dangerous something can be, how can you not control the impulse?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  76. #276  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,225
    It seems to me that if you know how dangerous something can be, how can you not control the impulse?
    So you don't understand alcoholics or drug addicts or those poor suffering OCD people who scrub the skin off their hands with incessant washing.

    The fact that you don't understand such obsessions and addictions doesn't alter the fact that some people have them.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  77. #277  
    New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MystryFlvr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Ok.
    So why eat diatomaceous earth?
    (This question is directed to anyone.)
    I actually eat it as a substitute to something that is extremely harmful that I crave because I have PICA and the prescribed vitamins can only do so much. That's probably the only legitimate reason to consume it I can think of, otherwise it's just a benign silica powder that just works really well at getting rid of bugs. The only reason I am on this forum is to make sure the edible DA really has no effects, positive or negative. Which seems to be the general consensus.
    If I may ask, how did PICA manifest with you? I've seen movies where coins seem to be a favorite item to eat, and there was a program where pins and nails were eaten and even one where a magnet was eaten. It seems to me that if you know how dangerous something can be, how can you not control the impulse?
    Basically what adelady said to address your second question.
    To your first question though (and to actually explain and answer of the second I suppose)...
    When I hit puberty, as a female, my iron levels dropped but apparently more so than what is normal. To accommodate the sudden iron deficiency my brain signaled me to crave things that had the missing minerals I needed, even if the substance containing them was toxic. It's neurological which makes it extremely difficult to control or ignore the impulse, no matter how much I wanted to not give in to the craving. Much like OCD but based more on chemical imbalance.

    Also when it had started I was only 12 and didn't know what it was or how to handle my situation. Now that I much older now I am able to deal with it by taking iron pills to correct my imbalance. I haven't eaten the toxic substance in 3 years now, and when the my craving does pop up (mostly out of habit now) I take the edible DE since it has the same texture and is harmless.
    Last edited by MystryFlvr; December 18th, 2013 at 01:30 AM.
    Bad Robot and babe like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  78. #278  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    5
    Hi, I'm having problems posting. My comment includes 2 links to studies on the topic. Could anyone please assist with some advice?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  79. #279  
     

  80. #280  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    5
    Sorry, for some reason I could only post the links on the studies separately.
    I've been reading another forum on this topic, and I came across this forum from a post. I have no scientific background and I was hoping to obtain some feedback on these studies which were posted on the other forum.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  81. #281  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,465
    Try copy
    hit the quote
    past the info and hit Post Quick Reply
    Reply With Quote  
     

  82. #282  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    5
    Thanks for your reply. It turned out that my first post as a new member could not include URLs.

    Just to clarify in case it has been unclear from my previous disjointed postings, I have come across some studies done on the topic of DE. They can be found in the links below:

    http://ihcp.jrc.ec.europa.eu/our_activities/nanotechnology/nanosafe-2012/Kinsner-Ovaskainen_Nanosafe_2012.pdf

    http://www.inchem.org/documents/jecf...no/v05je04.htm


    Feel free to review them and provide any feedback.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  83. #283  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
    Brought some bed bugs home from the laundromat. Freaked out. Went online. Found D.E. gets rid of them, and other arthropods. Also came across people saying it did wonders for the overall health. No lie, I though they were nut jobs. So I did more reading, and wound up here. Bottom line first time I tried D.E. only went with half a teaspoon(tsp.). Ha! With no immediate ill affect, I up the dosage to to a full tsp. Again no ill affect. Within two days I had made it up to a heaping tablespoon. Within a week my should problem which had been dogging me for a few months was gone. Getting up in the morning seems to be easier a lot easier. Soreness that you get from workouts seems to be minimized causing me to work out with more frequency. Just getting back into it to. Basically makes me feel like I've got an oil change. If that makes any sense.


    did it work at eliminating the bed bugs? i really hope so because that has been my approach.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  84. #284  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by swift2cruz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
    Brought some bed bugs home from the laundromat. Freaked out. Went online. Found D.E. gets rid of them, and other arthropods. Also came across people saying it did wonders for the overall health. No lie, I though they were nut jobs. So I did more reading, and wound up here. Bottom line first time I tried D.E. only went with half a teaspoon(tsp.). Ha! With no immediate ill affect, I up the dosage to to a full tsp. Again no ill affect. Within two days I had made it up to a heaping tablespoon. Within a week my should problem which had been dogging me for a few months was gone. Getting up in the morning seems to be easier a lot easier. Soreness that you get from workouts seems to be minimized causing me to work out with more frequency. Just getting back into it to. Basically makes me feel like I've got an oil change. If that makes any sense.


    did it work at eliminating the bed bugs? i really hope so because that has been my approach.
    Bed bugs are hard to get rid of, but like most people, I'd pay whatever to get rid of them. Somehow I don't think DE is going to work all that well, because if it did, why would people pay hundreds of dollars to get rid of them? I once tried DE on cockroaches and it didn't get rid of them, so I can't recommend it. However the link below might be some help.

    How to Get Rid of Bed Bugs | Getting Rid of Bed Bugs | Bed-Bugs.net
    Reply With Quote  
     

  85. #285  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    5
    I have done all the steps besides steaming, i am waiting to clean the powder than steam. but an exterminator came in and said she had never seen such great work from one single person (and she is the first one to encourage me to do it myself). i know it will work to some extent, and my out break just begun a few days ago. i also have to seal all the cracks in my house, and she told me instead of steaming (its hard work and takes longer) just use a hair dryer. she has been killing bed bugs for 9 years and said that if i keep doing what im doing everything will come together and they will be gone in a week. i may see more within a month but they will be gone after a brief treatment. and the reason exterminators charge $1000 or more is because the extent of searching (they even pull out the outlets form the wall), the chemicals (more costly but more effective), and the constant revisits. i cant afford to go through all that because i have two young children. i was just wondering how effective this stuff might be on them (i know it has some effect).
    Reply With Quote  
     

  86. #286  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by swift2cruz View Post
    I have done all the steps besides steaming, i am waiting to clean the powder than steam. but an exterminator came in and said she had never seen such great work from one single person (and she is the first one to encourage me to do it myself). i know it will work to some extent, and my out break just begun a few days ago. i also have to seal all the cracks in my house, and she told me instead of steaming (its hard work and takes longer) just use a hair dryer. she has been killing bed bugs for 9 years and said that if i keep doing what im doing everything will come together and they will be gone in a week. i may see more within a month but they will be gone after a brief treatment. and the reason exterminators charge $1000 or more is because the extent of searching (they even pull out the outlets form the wall), the chemicals (more costly but more effective), and the constant revisits. i cant afford to go through all that because i have two young children. i was just wondering how effective this stuff might be on them (i know it has some effect).
    Some pictures for you.











    Reply With Quote  
     

  87. #287  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Flatland
    Posts
    5,438
    Bad Robot likes this.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
    Reply With Quote  
     

  88. #288  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    5
    really? thats so kind because i havent seen enough pictures while investigating all this! i dont need a reminder of my situation, and fyi, i only have them in one room and this just started three days ago and i jumped into action. im trying to find help or information, and that isnt very helpful. im also a very clean person and dont take second hand items. i am living proof that this situation could happen to anyone so if you think something is funny then maybe you should question your knowledge of this subject because anyone can google some pictures. anyway, if anyone knows anything about how far this D.E will get me or anymore suggestions then please let me know, but i am really tired of seeing the pictures! thanks!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  89. #289  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Flatland
    Posts
    5,438
    Still, you should probably nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
    KALSTER likes this.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
    Reply With Quote  
     

  90. #290  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by swift2cruz View Post
    really? that's so kind because i haven't seen enough pictures while investigating all this! i don't need a reminder of my situation, and FYI, i only have them in one room and this just started three days ago and i jumped into action. I'm trying to find help or information, and that isn't very helpful. I'm also a very clean person and don't take second hand items. i am living proof that this situation could happen to anyone so if you think something is funny then maybe you should question your knowledge of this subject because anyone can Google some pictures. anyway, if anyone knows anything about how far this D.E will get me or anymore suggestions then please let me know, but i am really tired of seeing the pictures! thanks!
    I didn't post pictures to be funny, lots of people read these threads and sometimes pictures are helpful. While I've never had bed bugs myself, I have had pest problems and even when they don't bite they can be very annoying and a nasty health hazard. The best policy is to not bring any bed bugs home with you. So when you are traveling and spending time at hotels and motels, there are things you can do to minimize your chances of bringing them home with you. A little online research, will teach you all you need to know.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  91. #291  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,465
    Quote Originally Posted by flick montana View Post
    i agree!!!! Ikies!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  92. #292  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    5
    well, the website you gave me is considered helpful, those pictures weren't but thank you. and i have been doing online research, thats how i found out wat they were and the best things i can do. and i have had 3 exterminators come out, and one of them told me i was doing all i can considering the fact that i have young children. and i dont go anywhere, im in a new town and dont know almost anyone and i think i got them from something my mother-in-law sent my husband. no new furniture, no hand me downs, no hotels/motels. and three days ago i had no idea wat to do about bed bugs and had no idea i had them. i found them when i went to wash my curtains or i never would have known. and i completely treated my bedroom (which is where the ONLY sign of them are) along with all my other rooms and im treating the living room today. they are in the earliest stages and i have to terminate them NOW before they spread or multiply. and i looked up the other products i could use, but i know alot of them have reviews similiar to the D.E and are hazardous so i dont want to take that step unless necessary. i need someone who has been through this and rid them without and exterminator, i know its possible and people have done it so i just want to know if this is going to work or how they accomplished it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  93. #293  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by swift2cruz View Post
    well, the website you gave me is considered helpful, those pictures weren't but thank you. and i have been doing online research, thats how i found out wat they were and the best things i can do. and i have had 3 exterminators come out, and one of them told me i was doing all i can considering the fact that i have young children. and i dont go anywhere, im in a new town and dont know almost anyone and i think i got them from something my mother-in-law sent my husband. no new furniture, no hand me downs, no hotels/motels. and three days ago i had no idea wat to do about bed bugs and had no idea i had them. i found them when i went to wash my curtains or i never would have known. and i completely treated my bedroom (which is where the ONLY sign of them are) along with all my other rooms and im treating the living room today. they are in the earliest stages and i have to terminate them NOW before they spread or multiply. and i looked up the other products i could use, but i know alot of them have reviews similiar to the D.E and are hazardous so i dont want to take that step unless necessary. i need someone who has been through this and rid them without and exterminator, i know its possible and people have done it so i just want to know if this is going to work or how they accomplished it.
    Just thinking about those little blood suckers making a meal off me while I sleep is quite upsetting. I would react very much as you did. There's no way I could sleep knowing I had bed bugs. The first thing I would do is make sure all my bedding was bug free, then I'd put sticky traps under each bed footing. As long as no clothing or bed covers touch the floor or walls you will be okay. Then you can work on the rest of your house and take a few days if necessary and still get a good nights sleep.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  94. #294  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    5
    i have already done all that, and been doing laundry non stop and storing my clean clothes in bags in my dinning room (where i have no furniture). i put powder all along (and in cracks of) the walls in all the rooms, even the ones i dont have any in and in between the mattresses and under the footing, also vacuuming and putting a hair dryer (on max heat)along the beds and everything. throwing away clothes i dont need along with toys from my kids. all the bedrooms were done yesterday and i am cleaning and going over again now so i can do my living room tonight. calling all the experts for quotes but they require $600 or more up front along with $50 payments weekly and there is no way i can afford that. my son has down syndrome and requires a lot of attention and $, so considering i am doing everything in my power, and yes, you are 100% about sleeping. i havent slept in more than 3 nights. i am also buying some latex prime to fill all the cracks in my walls. everything i can do.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  95. #295  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,465
    and wrap your MATTRESSES In bed bug protectors..
    pillows also!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  96. #296  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,225
    Seeing as you've managed to keep them confined to just one room, I'd say your day-to-day priority would be vacuuming the edges of the room. You can choose when/ if you do the other project-style jobs, but this one should be a daily ritual.

    Keeping them out of crevices and out from under floor coverings or behind furniture is the major thing to prioritise as you keep on killing as many and as often as you can. That way you don't finish up with them in wall cavities, around wiring and plates or travelling along plumbing. Just keep on doing it - and clean out the vacuum cleaner regularly, wash out the dust catcher or replace the dustbag and wash/replace filters more often than you would normally. (I'd probably go a bit bonkers and wipe/ wash/ clean the attachments a couple of times as well.)

    (One daughter was renting an old semi-detached house and she got bedbugs coming through from the other side of the common wall. Meaning that they were already in and behind and under skirting boards and wiring and faceplates and carpets before she even found out they were there. Cost a fortune - apart from having the house done over twice by the pest exterminators, she had to put all her non-washable, non-drycleanable possessions through the fumigation process used by the government quarantine service - and pay for a couple of nights in a motel into the bargain.)
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  97. #297  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Seeing as you've managed to keep them confined to just one room, I'd say your day-to-day priority would be vacuuming the edges of the room. You can choose when/ if you do the other project-style jobs, but this one should be a daily ritual.

    Keeping them out of crevices and out from under floor coverings or behind furniture is the major thing to prioritise as you keep on killing as many and as often as you can. That way you don't finish up with them in wall cavities, around wiring and plates or travelling along plumbing. Just keep on doing it - and clean out the vacuum cleaner regularly, wash out the dust catcher or replace the dustbag and wash/replace filters more often than you would normally. (I'd probably go a bit bonkers and wipe/ wash/ clean the attachments a couple of times as well.)

    (One daughter was renting an old semi-detached house and she got bedbugs coming through from the other side of the common wall. Meaning that they were already in and behind and under skirting boards and wiring and faceplates and carpets before she even found out they were there. Cost a fortune - apart from having the house done over twice by the pest exterminators, she had to put all her non-washable, non-drycleanable possessions through the fumigation process used by the government quarantine service - and pay for a couple of nights in a motel into the bargain.)
    Yes, I think bed bugs would motivate me to pick up and use a vacuum cleaner a bit more often than I do now. I've heard that somewhere between 120o and 130o kills bedbugs. So rent heaters that will do the job turn them on and be gone for a couple of days. Also, if you have a separate large freezer, put your clothes in a space bag to reduce volume and then freeze it. That also kills bed bugs and then use the space bags whenever you travel to keep bedbugs out of your clothing, so you won't bring them home with you.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  98. #298  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    12,465
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Seeing as you've managed to keep them confined to just one room, I'd say your day-to-day priority would be vacuuming the edges of the room. You can choose when/ if you do the other project-style jobs, but this one should be a daily ritual.

    Keeping them out of crevices and out from under floor coverings or behind furniture is the major thing to prioritise as you keep on killing as many and as often as you can. That way you don't finish up with them in wall cavities, around wiring and plates or travelling along plumbing. Just keep on doing it - and clean out the vacuum cleaner regularly, wash out the dust catcher or replace the dustbag and wash/replace filters more often than you would normally. (I'd probably go a bit bonkers and wipe/ wash/ clean the attachments a couple of times as well.)

    (One daughter was renting an old semi-detached house and she got bedbugs coming through from the other side of the common wall. Meaning that they were already in and behind and under skirting boards and wiring and faceplates and carpets before she even found out they were there. Cost a fortune - apart from having the house done over twice by the pest exterminators, she had to put all her non-washable, non-drycleanable possessions through the fumigation process used by the government quarantine service - and pay for a couple of nights in a motel into the bargain.)
    Yes, I think bed bugs would motivate me to pick up and use a vacuum cleaner a bit more often than I do now. I've heard that somewhere between 120o and 130o kills bedbugs. So rent heaters that will do the job turn them on and be gone for a couple of days. Also, if you have a separate large freezer, put your clothes in a space bag to reduce volume and then freeze it. That also kills bed bugs and then use the space bags whenever you travel to keep bedbugs out of your clothing, so you won't bring them home with you.
    I am behaving myself.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  99. #299 Food Grade DE 
    New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1
    All,

    I've read the thread regarding whether it's safe for humans to consume food grade DE and thought I'd weigh in. As an environmental geologist and geochemist of 30 years and as many of you have said, food grade DE comes from 4 U.S. sources and is composed of the siliceous phytoplankton known as diatoms. It may or may not have many of the health claims that one reads about when one visits the various food grade DE websites. These websites are after all trying to sell you their product and can say anything they wish without backup.

    One online vendor who sells 100% food grade DE, Earthworks Health (EH), also supplies a chemical analysis of the component chemical elements of their DE on their website. Regardless of the purported safety of consuming food grade DE as just DE alone, I'm more interested in finding out what chemical elements/concentrations comprise the diatoms in the DE to make said determination of consumptive safety by humans. Beyond the many chemical elements that comprise the EH DE, the one toxic element that was present in the chemical results was arsenic at a level of 2,430 ppb (parts per billion). As the current reference standard for allowable arsenic in food is the 2014 World Health Org guidance of 200-300 ppb, the arsenic level in the EH DE is an order of magnitude above the 2014 WHO guidance. Further the Region 9 EPA allows an acceptable arsenic screening level in residential soil of 0.00061 ppb which is even orders of magnitude lower and is based on incidental ingestion.

    So while this gives me pause for concern from a purely chemical perspective, it may not be as much of an issue from a toxicological perspective as I don't know to what extent the diatoms in the DE are actually dissolved/digested into the component chemical elements within our GI tract which would then be bioavailable and illicit toxicity. However, our stomach acids and bile are very strong and there is tremendous surface area over even 1 teaspoon of DE to enable some level of dissolution to occur and thereby release the said elements. Until the exact level of gastric dissolution has been documented, I'd be wary of consuming DE as arsenic toxicity is cumulative and builds up over time.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  100. #300  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    6,114
    Quote Originally Posted by boshaken View Post
    All,

    I've read the thread regarding whether it's safe for humans to consume food grade DE and thought I'd weigh in. As an environmental geologist and geochemist of 30 years and as many of you have said, food grade DE comes from 4 U.S. sources and is composed of the siliceous phytoplankton known as diatoms. It may or may not have many of the health claims that one reads about when one visits the various food grade DE websites. These websites are after all trying to sell you their product and can say anything they wish without backup.

    One online vendor who sells 100% food grade DE, Earthworks Health (EH), also supplies a chemical analysis of the component chemical elements of their DE on their website. Regardless of the purported safety of consuming food grade DE as just DE alone, I'm more interested in finding out what chemical elements/concentrations comprise the diatoms in the DE to make said determination of consumptive safety by humans. Beyond the many chemical elements that comprise the EH DE, the one toxic element that was present in the chemical results was arsenic at a level of 2,430 ppb (parts per billion). As the current reference standard for allowable arsenic in food is the 2014 World Health Org guidance of 200-300 ppb, the arsenic level in the EH DE is an order of magnitude above the 2014 WHO guidance. Further the Region 9 EPA allows an acceptable arsenic screening level in residential soil of 0.00061 ppb which is even orders of magnitude lower and is based on incidental ingestion.

    So while this gives me pause for concern from a purely chemical perspective, it may not be as much of an issue from a toxicological perspective as I don't know to what extent the diatoms in the DE are actually dissolved/digested into the component chemical elements within our GI tract which would then be bioavailable and illicit toxicity. However, our stomach acids and bile are very strong and there is tremendous surface area over even 1 teaspoon of DE to enable some level of dissolution to occur and thereby release the said elements. Until the exact level of gastric dissolution has been documented, I'd be wary of consuming DE as arsenic toxicity is cumulative and builds up over time.
    Welcome to the forum and thanks for your input into this topic. Even if it does nothing harmful no amount of testimonials is going to entice me into consuming it. I used to buy the stuff to be used in an aquarium filter and I never felt an urge to eat any of it. I just don't think I'd like the stupid feeling I'd get if I was to consume it.

    But as Little Johnny likes to say in many of his jokes. I like the way you think. Anyway nice first post, hope to see you putting your two cents in, in many other topics.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Tags for this Thread

View Tag Cloud

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •