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Thread: Allergies

  1. #1 Allergies 
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
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    In my opinion alergies are completely controllable through our mind. An allergy is a reaction the body creates to a substance. It is a mistaken reaction, an unnecessary reaction. I beleive these reactions can be recondition by the mind.

    Not to be confused with an intolerant; something that, because of its chemical structure, causes harm to the body.

    What do ya think?


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    Well, I'm not sure I agree with that. So, in your opinion, if someone is allergic to say pollen...they could simply stop their allergic reaction given that they tried hard enough? While allegies are an unecessary reaction to a substance (because the substance is not harmful) the body biologically produces reactions ... just as an intolerance is produced, if I am not mistaken.


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  4. #3  
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    An intolerant would be something that causes damage itself. For example radiation or cyanide.

    I took an allergy test a while back (several years) and tested positive on many things (like I am sure many people have). Then one day I was thinking about these allergies and how they work. I decided to try my theory out for myself. I have been eating everything since then with no problems what soever. Also I met one person who had the same idea and he eats anything too.

    I don't know how this would work with things like hayfever but, I'm sure it could be the same.

    I havent taken an alergy test since so i can't offer any proof besides my word.

    I don't want to be rude but, what if people use these allergy problems as sort of an ego boost. "I can't I'm allergic". It becomes part of their personality. I have asked my freind to try this and he won't even consider it, even though there is no harm in it.
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  5. #4  
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    Ok ok..I see what you're getting at.
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  6. #5 Re: Allergies 
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB
    In my opinion alergies are completely controllable through our mind. An allergy is a reaction the body creates to a substance. It is a mistaken reaction, an unnecessary reaction. I beleive these reactions can be recondition by the mind.

    Not to be confused with an intolerant; something that, because of its chemical structure, causes harm to the body.

    What do ya think?
    I disagree with your point. In some case, the psychic can have an influence, like Andre Gide who have severe Asthmatic crisis each time he saw painting of flowers.
    But asthme do not happen to every allergic people.

    Allergia is caused by the release of histamine, made by the degranulation of basophils. The goal of such type of histaminic reactions was to defend your body against parasites.

    There is no way that this reactions can be recondition by mind. I would love that it will be the case.
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    yes, and if someone is allergic and controls it through their mind, it would work for several reasons.

    Person believes so much they can control it that they body produces something which actualy DOES control the allergy

    Person believes so much they just refuse to acknowledge symptoms

    Person believes that they dont have allergy so they ignore symptoms but then body gets used to it and so symptoms go away/lessen.

    Or maybe they never had an allergy and just psyche themselves out so they found any little thing that proved to themselves they had it, but really didnt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SealOtter
    yes, and if someone is allergic and controls it through their mind, it would work for several reasons.

    Person believes so much they can control it that they body produces something which actualy DOES control the allergy

    Person believes so much they just refuse to acknowledge symptoms

    Person believes that they dont have allergy so they ignore symptoms but then body gets used to it and so symptoms go away/lessen.

    Or maybe they never had an allergy and just psyche themselves out so they found any little thing that proved to themselves they had it, but really didnt.
    Sorry but I never see a single person controling his allergia via his mind. Allergia is not hysteria.

    I am a doctor and I suffer of allergia. I can't control it. My wife uncle is an allergologist and he never related such stories.
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  9. #8  
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    I have had an allergy test and used to have allergies. I no longer do. Although I have yet to come up with the money for another test to prove it. Also, I have not had any serious allergies like peanuts or lactos. The test did show an allergy to shell fish but shrimp is one of my favorite foods and Ihave it all the time. I am still only a student. When I get the resources I would be happy to conduct some tests but for now it is only speculation and my own experiance. I only wish someone else would believe me and try for them selves. It's great to have no allergies.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB
    I have had an alergy test and used to have alergies. I no longer do. Although I have yet to come up with the money for another test to prove it. Also, I have not had any serious alergies like peanuts or lactos. The test did show an alergy to shell fish but shrimp is one of my favorite foods and Ihave it all the time. I am still only a student. When I get the resources I would be happy to conduct some tests but for now it is only speculation and my own experiance. I only wish someone else would believe me and try for them selves. It's great to have no alergies.
    I am happy that you don't have any more food allergy but you are speculating on the reasons why you don't have allergy anymore.

    First point : allergic test do not tell the whole thing. According to the test I have an allergia to cat, but I live well with my 3 cat . Currently I have no allergie at all because I am allergic to pollen, and there is not pollen from august to march or april.

    Some years ago, I did a serious food allergia. After eating some raviolis and some vegetable, I had serious stomach pain while doing surgery. Some minutes later, my hands started burning, and I had a giant urticaria, and I was becoming red and white. Luckily one of my friend anesthesiologist did me some corticoids, and one or two hours later it was finish.
    I related this to my uncle in law, who is an allergologist (and who love his job, and also work in an universitary hospital). he told me if I took some aspirin before or an other drug (but I forgot wich one) before. Because in some case the association of a drug and some food can create the allergia.
    This allergia never reappered since, dispite the fact I hate several times the incriminated food. I don't think that my will have something to do with that.

    I have not the same chance with pollens, who are a sucker for me, since I am seven.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerdoc
    First point : allergic test do not tell the whole thing. According to the test I have an allergia to cat, but I live well with my 3 cat .
    I agree . To be honest I ignored my allergy test from the begining (before I came up with my theory).

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerdoc
    I am happy that you don't have any more food allergy but you are speculating on the reasons why you don't have allergy anymore.
    Not exactly speculating. I did two things with food not to long ago. I started reading about Buddhism and Ayurvedic philosophy. I gained a nonjudgemental attitude towards food. Meaning I now eat and enjoy all food. At the same time I decided I was tired of not eating certain foods because of allergies. I did a little research and came up with me theory and tried it for myself. Peaches used to make me sick and apples gave me migraines (to mention a few). I now eat all these things with no trouble. The point being: I made the decision not to be allergic before eating the allergens. As opposed to coming up with the theory after realizing they were gone.

    I do acknowledge that I have no evidence for my claim. Just logic (if you can call it that).

    If you can create an allergy why can't you get rid of it? I look at human nature and I see something very different than other animals. We can consciously choose to not act in a primal maner. 'Primal' meaning: most basic. When an allergy is developed it is in the unconscious mind's best interest to keep it just in case. But, we aren't unconscious like that. It seems this gives us the advantage of control. Our mind is connected to our whole body and controls (whether conscious or not) our reactions (obviously not all, but most).

    Do you think this theory of mine is completely impossible or just improbable?

    Also I am a little confused about you.
    You said you are a doctor :
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerdoc
    I am a doctor and I suffer of allergia
    Then you said you are seven :
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerdoc
    since I am seven.
    Are you saying you are a seven year old doctor? Or did I interpret something wrong?

    Also, is spanish your native language? I ask because you say alergia and that is allergy in spanish. I'm just curious.

    Thank you for giving such well put and intelligent responses.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  12. #11  
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    First of all there is a difference between food intolerance and allergia

    I am not an allergologist but migraines do not look like an allergia for me

    If you are becoming red and you are inflating it's a severe form of allergia
    Some times people die of allergie. For example dozens of people die of anaphylactic form of allergia each years (the blood pressure drop to zero and the heart stop)

    I agree you can control your corpse to a certain extent. But in order to control it, you have to feel it. Do you feel your immunuglobuline type E, or your mastocyts ?
    I don't think so, before studying immununologia, I ignored that it even exist. You don't have to study medecine, to feel your heart, your lungs or whatever. They are connected to nerves : there is a feeback.

    For the difference between human and animals it's not that big. We have a better cortex than others mammals, and frontal lobes. Our cortex allow us to have some control on the deepiest layers of our brain (reptilian brain) but it's limited.
    Why is it limited : it's limited because it's indirect control : inhibition or augmentation of the primary control center, but not shortcut of this control center.

    I am allergic since the age of seven years
    I am a MD since 1993
    I am french : it's allergie in french. allergia : is sort of latinism : sorry for this neology
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    Ok I would like to add something to further my claim. I think people (at least in the US) are losing touch with themselves. I work in a grocery store and all I here is : "do you have things without sugar, wheat, yeast, gluten, nuts, dairy, raisins, etc". RASINS??? Since when were people allergic to raisins. Maybe since people started losing so much touch with themselve that the slightestinfluence could cause a freaking raisin allergy. I know sugar isn't an allergy (or it better not be); I just put it on the list because I get it alot. But, seriously, people are allergic to everything. I can see no other reason why this 'allergy outbreak' could be possible unless it truly did have to do with the mind.

    aaah....

    That felt good. I had to get that out of me. It bothers me so much for some reason. I feel these people can be helped but no one will help them. It's like they are being taken advantage of. They are buying into the allergy culture without a second thought.
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    well people don't know that they are responsible. I know people with every allergy in the book... do they think they are responsible? nope. the "allergies" are responsible.

    or, it could be they just dont want that stuff in their diet. have you asked them why they need stuff without sugar/dairy/wheat? what do they say?

    if you get too much sugar in your diet all sorts of problems come up. same thing with dairy.

    if you could help them, how would you do it? what would you do?
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB
    Ok I would like to add something to further my claim. I think people (at least in the US) are losing touch with themselves. I work in a grocery store and all I here is : "do you have things without sugar, wheat, yeast, gluten, nuts, dairy, raisins, etc". RASINS??? Since when were people allergic to raisins. Maybe since people started losing so much touch with themselve that the slightestinfluence could cause a freaking raisin allergy. I know sugar isn't an allergy (or it better not be); I just put it on the list because I get it alot. But, seriously, people are allergic to everything. I can see no other reason why this 'allergy outbreak' could be possible unless it truly did have to do with the mind.

    aaah....

    That felt good. I had to get that out of me. It bothers me so much for some reason. I feel these people can be helped but no one will help them. It's like they are being taken advantage of. They are buying into the allergy culture without a second thought.
    Oh I see with what kind of people you are dealing with. It's the kind of people who search excuse for anything and don't assume themselves.

    There is a new medical entity : fibromyalgia. Many of these people look like that the one you discribed. They are happy to be fibromyalgic, it's a good excuse to give up.
    Your philosophy would be a good cure for them : be responsible of yourself. I think that the way you see life is good for such benign diseases. I just think that you can't cure everything that way.


    For me, I am allergic to pollen, but I a m not allergic. I just have problems with pollen, but it never prevented me to go outside and play golf. I will die before giving up. . So I take my pills and one ton of kleenex

    PS : this is also a reply for Sealotter. People should try to have a control over themselves, but it's not always possible. But you are true Seal otter, some people refuse to be responsible of themselves and their disease become the perfect excuse to give up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB
    Ok I would like to add something to further my claim. I think people (at least in the US) are losing touch with themselves. I work in a grocery store and all I here is : "do you have things without sugar, wheat, yeast, gluten, nuts, dairy, raisins, etc". RASINS??? Since when were people allergic to raisins. Maybe since people started losing so much touch with themselve that the slightestinfluence could cause a freaking raisin allergy. I know sugar isn't an allergy (or it better not be); I just put it on the list because I get it alot. But, seriously, people are allergic to everything. I can see no other reason why this 'allergy outbreak' could be possible unless it truly did have to do with the mind.

    aaah....

    That felt good. I had to get that out of me. It bothers me so much for some reason. I feel these people can be helped but no one will help them. It's like they are being taken advantage of. They are buying into the allergy culture without a second thought.
    So what do you end up selling them? sterilized hermetically sealed vacuum packed irradiated distilled water?
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    In my opinion alergies are completely controllable through our mind. An allergy is a reaction the body creates to a substance. It is a mistaken reaction, an unnecessary reaction. I beleive these reactions can be recondition by the mind.
    god your stupid.
    IF THIS WERE POSSIBLE DO YOU THINK I WOULD STILL BE ALLERGIC!?!?!?!
    its your IMMUNE system that overreact, its a seperate unit of the body that dont need to be thought to do its work. they do what they shall and if they for somereason consider stuff unhealrthy and dangerous they attack it. in allergies they react on stuff that isnt dangerous. Nothing to do with the mind
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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    There are well documented cases of babies dying through being given nut products, some I believe as young as 12 months, do you think this was controllable through the child's mind?
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    Well I can speak to both of these. First of all children/babies are the most primal of humans. They are completely dependent on their natural responses. I'm not sure if you are aware of this zelos, but in martial arts you actually retrain reflexs. Reflexes are known to not reach the brain yet through constant practice, starting slow then faster, you can retrain these primal reflexes. It would work the same way with the immune system and the mind. Everything in the body is intimately connected to everything else. There is no possible way to say that they are seperate.

    zelos, I ask you, if this were possible would you believe it? You can't consciously retrain your natural reflexes unless you believe that you can (that is why it requires consciousness).?

    When someone throws a punch at you the natural (primal) reflex is to tense up with maybe a block of some sort. When in actuality a soft redirection of energy is much more effective because the opponent cannot feel the energy but, you can feel theirs and manipulate it. Also, training allows one to stay very calm while ina stressful situation. I am not kidding you when I say that time does in fact appear to slow down when you are good enough. The point is that primal instinct is more of a safety mechanism for those whithout consciousness (everything but humans to our knowledge). Consciousness allows you to see flaws and reprogram or retrain the primal ways.

    In an allergy the immune system begins to develop a memory. This is why most allergies get worse over time. The immune system gets more and more aggresive. This memory (I believe) can be altered.

    Also, like I said, unless I am some weird mutant or random coincidence, I have 'cured' my allergies.

    And to answer the question of what we sell them. Well, we aren't allowed to be rude to the customers (obviously) so we basicaly say: sorry we don't sell that (we do sell some things but there is a limit).

    Sorry about errors, I am in school and everything must be done fast!!! :P
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  20. #19  
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    There is also well documented case of people who almost died (and some who die) after having eating nut. They asked to the cooker if there was nut : and the answer was no.
    So they eat the food with confidence and the accident happen.

    in France 50 people per year die after injection of hymenoptery injection (bees and alike). Most of them even ignore they are allergic.

    So we can't control everything in our body. We do not have enough engeenery to do so.
    If I give you poison, you will, whatever you will try to do on yourself die.
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    zelos, I ask you, if this were possible would you believe it? You can't consciously retrain your natural reflexes unless you believe that you can (that is why it requires consciousness).?
    you wont die unless you think you can die
    catch my drift?

    that i dont belive for a sec. what reflexes are we talking about? the more basic ones the harder it is. the most basic ones cant you controll but you can before counter them by knowing they will and do the oposite that conter it

    In an allergy the immune system begins to develop a memory. This is why most allergies get worse over time. The immune system gets more and more aggresive. This memory (I believe) can be altered.
    this is not entirely true, my allergic have become better as the years have passed. my immune system have seen there is no harm and therefor dont waste energy on the reaction. This "memory" isnt like a memory in the brain, its a couple of cells at one part of the body that remain inactive and when they get the signal something they can prevent has entered the body they go on red alert and begin producing anti-bodies and other stuff

    Also, like I said, unless I am some weird mutant or random coincidence, I have 'cured' my allergies
    you havent. its not unnormal that some people lose their allergy by the body on its own. it gets used to the allergine and dont care about it anymore. nopthing special

    you seem like a 60's hippie that have smocked a bit to much sometimes.
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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    I think you need to stop reading your new-age-bullshit-mind-over-matter magazines. Quit feeding this crap to us... frankly, i'm allergic to it
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  23. #22  
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    and i ahte those hippies, they are so stupid
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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    I think the only way to get rid of an allergy is with exposure therapy(or whatever its called)

    Its when they give you small doses over a long period of time till your body ignores them, its being offered for hayfever at moment (not sure if its avaliable through nhs or private) and i also think it can work for dust allergys but cant see how it would work for people with food allegy that lead to anafalaxic(spelling) shock


    From what i remember its quite an old treatment but was stopped because a couple of people died with the reactions to injections. As far as i know its been approved and improved and is now given in allergy clinics at hospital rather than GP's(which is when the deaths occured)
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    god your stupid.

    What has telling God he's stupid got to do with anything?
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  26. #25  
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    Wow this got popular fast.

    It seems most of you either have not read what I have previously wrote or just forgot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerdoc
    There is also well documented case of people who almost died (and some who die) after having eating nut. They asked to the cooker if there was nut : and the answer was no.
    So they eat the food with confidence and the accident happen.
    This is not at all what I'm talking about. I fully acknowledge that the immune system will attack the allergen whether or not you know it's there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerdoc
    in France 50 people per year die after injection of hymenoptery injection (bees and alike). Most of them even ignore they are allergic.
    I don't know what hymnenoptry is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerdoc
    So we can't control everything in our body. We do not have enough engeenery to do so.
    If I give you poison, you will, whatever you will try to do on yourself die.
    Now you're the one making me look like I'm on drugs. I already have noted the difference between an intolerant (poison) and an allergy. Intolerants have a chemical structure that actually harm the body whereas an allergy causes the body to harm itself. I'm not going to comment on the amount we can control our bodies because frankly I don't think any of us have a clue about that.



    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    This "memory" isnt like a memory in the brain, its a couple of cells at one part of the body that remain inactive and when they get the signal something they can prevent has entered the body they go on red alert and begin producing anti-bodies and other stuff
    I know how the 'memory' works, I just put it in a way others could understand. I do have medical education, I'm not making all this up. In fact I have had a psychology teacher agree that allergies may be able to be controled by the mind. Also, one of my anatomy teachers was recently talking about studies done on meditation and prayer and how they can heal desease. I think, just maybe some of you are a bit too old fashioned. Science does improve you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    it gets used to the allergine and dont care about it anymore. nopthing special
    I also know this. When I was talking about my self I was refering to the fact that the allergies went away almost emediately after I decided I was sick of them. If you want to call it coincidence I have no way of arguing that.

    Again, I think people are misunderstanding me here. I am offering an idea and trying to refine it. I am not saying any of this is fact. I am offering arguments to support my idea; but I see no reason for anyone to be getting angry at me here. If you honestly think this is completely impossible and just want to come here to try and insult me than please just leave, because you are no help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    you wont die unless you think you can die
    catch my drift?

    that i dont belive for a sec. what reflexes are we talking about? the more basic ones the harder it is. the most basic ones cant you controll but you can before counter them by knowing they will and do the oposite that conter it
    I never said that you must belive you will die to die. In fact I didn't say anything close to it. What I said is that if you intend to change something you must do it consciously. That is all. I know you like to rephrase my writting to make me sound crazy but the only people you are fooling are those foolish enough to listen; and if they are so susceptible to you silly remarks than they shouldn't even be in this conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draculogenes
    I think you need to stop reading your new-age-bullshit-mind-over-matter magazines. Quit feeding this crap to us... frankly, i'm allergic to it
    I'm sorry, can you inform me as to what magazenes I am reading. The reason I decided to put this here in the first place was because I met someone else who had been talking about the same thing and had some confermation from teachers. I want to see what you all think about it. So like I said, if you just want to be here to try and insult me or make me angry it's not going to work. "frankly" I don't have time to angry at your petty remarks. If you have something relevant to say than say it, otherwise please leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    I think the only way to get rid of an allergy is with exposure therapy(or whatever its called)

    Its when they give you small doses over a long period of time till your body ignores them, its being offered for hayfever at moment (not sure if its avaliable through nhs or private) and i also think it can work for dust allergys but cant see how it would work for people with food allegy that lead to anafalaxic(spelling) shock


    From what i remember its quite an old treatment but was stopped because a couple of people died with the reactions to injections. As far as i know its been approved and improved and is now given in allergy clinics at hospital rather than GP's(which is when the deaths occured)
    First of all, thank you for saying something constructive. I think what you are talking about is Homeopathy. I believe in this concept in the "no pain no gain" sense. Meaning: do anything enough and you will become better at it. Obviously, I do not agree fully with it but, that is another topic.

    I'm talking about something a bit different. Similar in that I suggest you eat what your allergic to but, I also say that you should make a conscious effort not to be allergic to it.

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    I hope this topic does not get ruined by pointless arguments and insults (like many others in this forum have). Please try to be constructive and act like adults here.
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    Forum Professor captaincaveman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB
    Wow this got popular fast.

    It seems most of you either have not read what I have previously wrote or just forgot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerdoc
    There is also well documented case of people who almost died (and some who die) after having eating nut. They asked to the cooker if there was nut : and the answer was no.
    So they eat the food with confidence and the accident happen.
    This is not at all what I'm talking about. I fully acknowledge that the immune system will attack the allergen whether or not you know it's there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerdoc
    in France 50 people per year die after injection of hymenoptery injection (bees and alike). Most of them even ignore they are allergic.
    I don't know what hymnenoptry is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerdoc
    So we can't control everything in our body. We do not have enough engeenery to do so.
    If I give you poison, you will, whatever you will try to do on yourself die.
    Now you're the one making me look like I'm on drugs. I already have noted the difference between an intolerant (poison) and an allergy. Intolerants have a chemical structure that actually harm the body whereas an allergy causes the body to harm itself. I'm not going to comment on the amount we can control our bodies because frankly I don't think any of us have a clue about that.



    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    This "memory" isnt like a memory in the brain, its a couple of cells at one part of the body that remain inactive and when they get the signal something they can prevent has entered the body they go on red alert and begin producing anti-bodies and other stuff
    I know how the 'memory' works, I just put it in a way others could understand. I do have medical education, I'm not making all this up. In fact I have had a psychology teacher agree that allergies may be able to be controled by the mind. Also, one of my anatomy teachers was recently talking about studies done on meditation and prayer and how they can heal desease. I think, just maybe some of you are a bit too old fashioned. Science does improve you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    it gets used to the allergine and dont care about it anymore. nopthing special
    I also know this. When I was talking about my self I was refering to the fact that the allergies went away almost emediately after I decided I was sick of them. If you want to call it coincidence I have no way of arguing that.

    Again, I think people are misunderstanding me here. I am offering an idea and trying to refine it. I am not saying any of this is fact. I am offering arguments to support my idea; but I see no reason for anyone to be getting angry at me here. If you honestly think this is completely impossible and just want to come here to try and insult me than please just leave, because you are no help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    you wont die unless you think you can die
    catch my drift?

    that i dont belive for a sec. what reflexes are we talking about? the more basic ones the harder it is. the most basic ones cant you controll but you can before counter them by knowing they will and do the oposite that conter it
    I never said that you must belive you will die to die. In fact I didn't say anything close to it. What I said is that if you intend to change something you must do it consciously. That is all. I know you like to rephrase my writting to make me sound crazy but the only people you are fooling are those foolish enough to listen; and if they are so susceptible to you silly remarks than they shouldn't even be in this conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draculogenes
    I think you need to stop reading your new-age-bullshit-mind-over-matter magazines. Quit feeding this crap to us... frankly, i'm allergic to it
    I'm sorry, can you inform me as to what magazenes I am reading. The reason I decided to put this here in the first place was because I met someone else who had been talking about the same thing and had some confermation from teachers. I want to see what you all think about it. So like I said, if you just want to be here to try and insult me or make me angry it's not going to work. "frankly" I don't have time to angry at your petty remarks. If you have something relevant to say than say it, otherwise please leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    I think the only way to get rid of an allergy is with exposure therapy(or whatever its called)

    Its when they give you small doses over a long period of time till your body ignores them, its being offered for hayfever at moment (not sure if its avaliable through nhs or private) and i also think it can work for dust allergys but cant see how it would work for people with food allegy that lead to anafalaxic(spelling) shock


    From what i remember its quite an old treatment but was stopped because a couple of people died with the reactions to injections. As far as i know its been approved and improved and is now given in allergy clinics at hospital rather than GP's(which is when the deaths occured)
    First of all, thank you for saying something constructive. I think what you are talking about is Homeopathy. I believe in this concept in the "no pain no gain" sense. Meaning: do anything enough and you will become better at it. Obviously, I do not agree fully with it but, that is another topic.

    I'm talking about something a bit different. Similar in that I suggest you eat what your allergic to but, I also say that you should make a conscious effort not to be allergic to it..
    I dont think its classed as homeopathy, its not classed as an alternative therapy, its basically like innoculations but in reverse, whereas innoculation helps the immune sysytem beat a disease, this make the body ignore the allergy because it is used to seeing it there, in the same way your immune system ignores other things in the body

    Its regular injections over a year until the body doesn't see the allergons as a threat

    the problem with eating things that you are allergic to is that its not direct on the immune system, as far as i know(dont quote me) :-D
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    Homeopathy: complementary disease treatment system: a complementary disease treatment system in which a patient is given minute doses of natural drugs that in larger doses would produce symptoms of the disease itself.
    The system was created by Dr. Samuel Hahnemann (1755–1843) on the assumption that like can be cured by like.
    Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2004. © 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

    I don't know why people call any medicine 'alternative'. What an intelligent person would do is find what works best for them and make an alternative out of whatever is left. In this definition they are referring to disease but, it is applied in all sorts of situations.

    Also, we should clairfy something. The immune system doesn't ignore things. If there is something that doesn't belong it develops an antibody for it and does what it can to destroy it. The immune system checks everything. So when you have an allergy and get rid of it you are literally stopping the production of the antibodies for that allergen. There is will in it (as opposed to just ignoring it). If this is what you meant I didn't mean to repeat it, I just wanted to make that clear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB
    Homeopathy: complementary disease treatment system: a complementary disease treatment system in which a patient is given minute doses of natural drugs that in larger doses would produce symptoms of the disease itself.
    The system was created by Dr. Samuel Hahnemann (1755–1843) on the assumption that like can be cured by like.
    Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2004. © 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

    I don't know why people call any medicine 'alternative'. What an intelligent person would do is find what works best for them and make an alternative out of whatever is left. In this definition they are referring to disease but, it is applied in all sorts of situations.

    Also, we should clairfy something. The immune system doesn't ignore things. If there is something that doesn't belong it develops an antibody for it and does what it can to destroy it. The immune system checks everything. So when you have an allergy and get rid of it you are literally stopping the production of the antibodies for that allergen. There is will in it (as opposed to just ignoring it). If this is what you meant I didn't mean to repeat it, I just wanted to make that clear.
    No captaincaveman is right. It's not homeopathy. The therapy he mentionned exist and it work in a large % of the time, but not for everybody (in my case it was a failure)
    The therapy consist in injecting increasing amount of allergen in the patient, in order to let the organism tolerate this allergen. This kind of treatment works great when you are only allergic to a specifical brand of allergen, like Hymenopteries insect (bees and alike are belonging to this family of insect).

    It do not work like at all like homeopathy. The theory of homeopathy developped by Halheman in the 19 th century is to cure the pain by the pain, by ingesting very small of substance of painfull substances. For example you take 15 CH of arnica montana for removing ecchymosis. A CH is one % of a mole soup ( a mole soup is 6,023 10 e 23 molecules per liter). 2 CH is one % dilution of one CH, 3 CH is one % dilution of 2 CH and therefore 1/1000000 of the mole soup.
    Therefore 15 CH is 1e-30 of the initial soup.
    There is also the DH who work by incremential dilution of 10% 1/10
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    Well that's the beauty of free-speech, i can say whatever i want, constructive or destructive. If you come onto public forums(sesspool of debate) you should shouldn't expect everyone to give you a flower and a pat on the back.

    people take things far too seriously here, no sense of humour... oh well. You came here wanting the opinions of others and you got them, stop complaining.

    Here's the thing, as i've said, i think your allergy immunity is bullshit. Sure you can beat you allergies down by exposure, most of my family has done it. We were all terribly allergic to cats, now only the ones who don't own cats are. It jsut takes a long time! I've had allergies for ever, you don't know how much i'd like to get rid of them, but it just isn't as easy as meditating and flipping off a switch(oh please don't quote me again and say something about how it's not only meditating)

    When you say you had a psychology teacher who said this, or you heard something from some respectable person, that's exactly what i mean by new-age bullshit. People like to make up theories or lifestyle choices so they feel "pure" or better. I once watched a documentary on quantum mechanics relating to emotions.. and it was on tv, published and produced. doesn't mean it's right, it's a theory.

    p.s. hymenoptery injection is just a sting from an animal in the hymenoptera order(atleast i think). These would be bees, wasps, hornets and any other obscure beauties i forget to mention
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB
    Homeopathy: complementary disease treatment system: a complementary disease treatment system in which a patient is given minute doses of natural drugs that in larger doses would produce symptoms of the disease itself.
    The system was created by Dr. Samuel Hahnemann (1755–1843) on the assumption that like can be cured by like.
    Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2004. © 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

    I don't know why people call any medicine 'alternative'. What an intelligent person would do is find what works best for them and make an alternative out of whatever is left. In this definition they are referring to disease but, it is applied in all sorts of situations.

    Also, we should clairfy something. The immune system doesn't ignore things. If there is something that doesn't belong it develops an antibody for it and does what it can to destroy it. The immune system checks everything. So when you have an allergy and get rid of it you are literally stopping the production of the antibodies for that allergen. There is will in it (as opposed to just ignoring it). If this is what you meant I didn't mean to repeat it, I just wanted to make that clear.

    sorry ignore things was a bad choice of word, i meant to not see it as a threat or danger, remember the immunune system with allergys is one thing but the immune system can in rare cases attack the body itself as a threat/danger as in the autoimmune disorders out there :-D
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    What has telling God he's stupid got to do with anything?
    well sorry i was just speakign loud to myself

    Also, one of my anatomy teachers was recently talking about studies done on meditation and prayer and how they can heal desease. I think, just maybe some of you are a bit too old fashioned. Science does improve you know.
    yes, but it doesnt smoke opium and go hippie like

    When I was talking about my self I was refering to the fact that the allergies went away almost emediately after I decided I was sick of them. If you want to call it coincidence I have no way of arguing that
    hahaha god(me) your funny. how much opium did you smoke before you belived that?

    If you honestly think this is completely impossible and just want to come here to try and insult me than please just leave, because you are no help.
    we are just trying to get you stop bieng hippie. And youre not much of help either going around telling crackpot ideas

    I don't know why people call any medicine 'alternative'. What an intelligent person would do is find what works best for them and make an alternative out of whatever is left. In this definition they are referring to disease but, it is applied in all sorts of situations.
    its called alternetive since much of it is jsut placebo
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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    Well I guess I saw this coming.

    I asked my psychology teacher about my idea. He didn't give me the idea. I already no there is no use in trying to change your conditioned minds. I was never trying to in the first place. All I was asking for is some substancial evidence that this idea won't work. So far I have gotten none. I am sorry to those of you who were trying to be constructive but it appears this thread is getting torn apart by your "I'll do what I want" types. If you are going to make insults than I will ignore you. If you are going to fill this thread up with petty remarks to someone you don't even know than I have no problem leaving. I am sure there are many more places with much more mature people who would love to help me out.
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  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB
    Well I guess I saw this coming.

    I asked my psychology teacher about my idea. He didn't give me the idea. I already no there is no use in trying to change your conditioned minds. I was never trying to in the first place. All I was asking for is some substancial evidence that this idea won't work. So far I have gotten none. I am sorry to those of you who were trying to be constructive but it appears this thread is getting torn apart by your "I'll do what I want" types. If you are going to make insults than I will ignore you. If you are going to fill this thread up with petty remarks to someone you don't even know than I have no problem leaving. I am sure there are many more places with much more mature people who would love to help me out.
    i dont believe ive made petty remarks or insults on this thread, In my opinion having a positive state of mind can help you feel better about the symptoms you have, but not irradicate them medically

    eg when my hayfevers bad, i feel worse if i think about it and am negative about it, than if i dont

    But this is the same with anything in life, being positive can make you feel better than if you dont, but in my opinion doesnt stop symptoms just makes the more tolerable
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    My experiance tells me that people are so vastly different that each person much be treated as an individual. Most origins (if not all) of desease are 100% none random. They all have something to do with the person's emotioanl state, physical state, nutrition, personal understanding, beliefs about life, etc.....

    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    i dont believe ive made petty remarks or insults on this threadi dont believe ive made petty remarks or insults on this thread
    I don't think you have either. I am mainly talking about Zelos and Blood Lust ().

    I will continue this thread if there are those who want to but, we will have to ignore the pointless posts.

    I tihnk maybe people feel challenged that their life long beliefs are being changed. I am simpy presnting an idea that I have found to work in my life (and know one other person who has succeded with it) and would like to refine it untill it is either found to be true or false. Also, remember that the only reason I am doing this is for good intentions, therefor I see no reason why people get so angry with it.

    I was recently thinking of something. I know you 'anti-me' people are going to hate this so please feel free to ignore it.

    A single celled organsim has many funtions that it can accomplish giving it a sense of primal conscousness. Each cell in your body has this primal consciousness (call it DNA and the laws of nature). Our mind is not a giant cell with a conscioiusness. So, unless our consciousness is seperate from our body, it is our body that creates our consciousness. It is all the cells as one that brings rise to this state of being. People get cought up in the idea that our nurvous system controls what we can control. Meaning (in a sense) if we can't feel it, we can't control it. Yet, we can control the nerve cells that make up our nervous system. Why can we control these nerve cells but not other cells. This concept just completely boggles me. Where does the first electrical impulse start? When I get a thought, what (other than me) could possibly have started it? What if the same 'mechanism' that a nerve cell acknowledges could be acknowledged by any cell? I think you can tell by now where I am going with this. If any cell can acknowledge this than you can in fact control any cell in your body. I don't think it is that simple though. More like you can give a general command (being the one in charge of the many) and the many will do what is necessary to carry out that command. Thereby causing the body not to have a reaction to a particular substance.

    Is that nuts or what?
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    i think i see where you are going, though i'm not quite sure, so i'll give it a shot anyway.

    Nerve cells work differently from other cells. (i've only brushed over this) but they send messages to one another, potassium bridges, switching on and off etc. other cells don't have this ability. that is why i assume we "can control" our nerve cells, because the focus of these cells is to tell our brain what's going on and tell our body what out brain wants to do. I don't believe our other cells possess this ability. You make it sound like they can read your mind.

    The thing is our hormones and nerves control everything, they give all the orders. If they don't know how to say "ignore those bastards" they most likely will not learn how to by you willing it. rather they will learn it by getting slammed over and over(allergies) for no reason.

    If i "will" my arm muscles to move, they'll move, but that's because my nerves sent the message. If i will my body to stop producing hystamine, it jsut won't work, you can't control hormonal and bio-chemical things like that.

    PS, next time how about you get my damn name right... blood lust? who the hell? you must have played magic....

    Ok, so i'm not being a jerk, you happy? you better be, cause i'm missing out on a lot of fun here! cut the maturity crap too eh, don't act all high and mighty, cause i know, deep down, you want to punch me
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    I asked my psychology teacher about my idea. He didn't give me the idea. I already no there is no use in trying to change your conditioned minds. I was never trying to in the first place. All I was asking for is some substancial evidence that this idea won't work. So far I have gotten none. I am sorry to those of you who were trying to be constructive but it appears this thread is getting torn apart by your "I'll do what I want" types. If you are going to make insults than I will ignore you. If you are going to fill this thread up with petty remarks to someone you don't even know than I have no problem leaving. I am sure there are many more places with much more mature people who would love to help me out.
    use your head and you get all the evidence you need for it to wont work. it is ILLOGICAL
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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    There are enough well documented cases to show that the human body can repair itself. We know at the lowest level that injuries are repaired as a sort of 'autoresponse' kicks in when for example yo break a bone, or cut yourself. There have been many cases where a person is diagnosed as having a terminal cancer, yet after diagnosis the cancer reduced and dissappeared, I think one on the more famous cases was a UK Jockey, Bob champion.

    I do not know much about allergies, fortunately they do not seem to come my way. If one is allergic to something is it possible that in very small doses one could develope an immunity?

    Undoubtedly there is much about human physiology that we still do not understand. Willpower is certainly a strong Factor. Professor Hawking by all accounts should have died long ago through his illness. His tremendous will to live and fight his ailment to the end is, to my mind, his greatest achievment. I have known one in my life who only survived for around 18 months after diagnosis, he simply 'gave up without a fight'.
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    Good point billco, i'm a little sketchy on the willpower to fight illness though. That is to say i'm undecided. Hawkings if just one example though, think of the thousands who have fought with everything they have and still died. The hero dying and not even becoming a martyr doesn't make for a great story. It's like George Burns smoking every day of his life, carrying the cigar around. Well he lived to 80 or 90... whatever it was, but you can't just assume by that example that smoking won't hurt you.

    I'm skeptical on the matter though, but i'm a born cynic. I'd like to believe if i were in a life and death situation, i'd have the willpower to carry it through, now whether or not it's actually possible is beyond me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draculogenes
    Good point billco, i'm a little sketchy on the willpower to fight illness though. That is to say i'm undecided. Hawkings if just one example though, think of the thousands who have fought with everything they have and still died. The hero dying and not even becoming a martyr doesn't make for a great story. It's like George Burns smoking every day of his life, carrying the cigar around. Well he lived to 80 or 90... whatever it was, but you can't just assume by that example that smoking won't hurt you.

    I'm skeptical on the matter though, but i'm a born cynic. I'd like to believe if i were in a life and death situation, i'd have the willpower to carry it through, now whether or not it's actually possible is beyond me.

    maybe the positive thinking puts less stress on your body?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draculogenes
    i think i see where you are going, though i'm not quite sure, so i'll give it a shot anyway.

    Nerve cells work differently from other cells. (i've only brushed over this) but they send messages to one another, potassium bridges, switching on and off etc. other cells don't have this ability. that is why i assume we "can control" our nerve cells, because the focus of these cells is to tell our brain what's going on and tell our body what out brain wants to do. I don't believe our other cells possess this ability. You make it sound like they can read your mind.
    Yes but, what I can't figure is what starts that first impulse. Does this make sense. It may be the same as the question: what is consciousness? What receives the first message? Is it an organelle or can we just spontaniously ignite an electrical impules? I'm not sure this question is answerable, I just wanted to throw it out there. Maybe we have more control than we think; maybe we don't or, just maybe, it depends on whether or not we want that control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draculogenes
    The thing is our hormones and nerves control everything, they give all the orders. If they don't know how to say "ignore those bastards" they most likely will not learn how to by you willing it. rather they will learn it by getting slammed over and over(allergies) for no reason.

    If i "will" my arm muscles to move, they'll move, but that's because my nerves sent the message. If i will my body to stop producing hystamine, it jsut won't work, you can't control hormonal and bio-chemical things like that.
    Yes... chemical rections causing other chemical reactions. A cell gets dried up because of osmolarity and causes a trigger to release a homone all based on chemical chain reactions. But, again, we end up at the same problem. Where does the chain reaction start. What puts it into motion; and what is to say it can't begin anywhere. The electrical signals in our nerves are produced chemically. Just like the bonding of a hormone is chemical. Also, some hormones are released via the nervous system (TRH from the hypothalams for example).

    If I am correct some yogis have been documentad to have stoped their heart voluntarily. I think there have actually been experiments done using sound rhythms to try to control autonomic muscle action. Maybe this is just a touch as to what we really can control. Again, maybe it's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draculogenes
    PS, next time how about you get my damn name right... blood lust? who the hell? you must have played magic....
    I know that wasn't your name, I was just messin with you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Draculogenes
    Ok, so i'm not being a jerk, you happy? you better be, cause i'm missing out on a lot of fun here! cut the maturity crap too eh, don't act all high and mighty, cause i know, deep down, you want to punch me
    Well from the ammount of posts you have I can tell you are fairly new. Which means I am not terribly concerned about what you had to say. To be honest I was speaking mroe to Zelos (we disagree alot :P). Sometimes I feel like he joins my threads just piss me off (which is probably somewhat true). Also, I have plenty of people here (at home) to punch, so it's not such a big deal. I just like to try and stop the 'bad' comments early because they can go on for pages and eventualy you forget what you were even talking about.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    use your head and you get all the evidence you need for it to wont work. it is ILLOGICAL
    That's just it. To me it isn't illogical. At least not yet.

    P.S. Zelos, I do respect you but, sometimes... let's just say it's good we only know eachother via the internet.
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    Well i can't tell you what starts the reaction, i'm not that good but my guess (and i might be repeating myself) is that something tries to interact with a cell and the cell reacts accordingly. Now my belief would be that only a few types of cells can induce large scale reactions. You say it's possible either way, and ofcourse it is possible, but it's beyond me atleast for now. i don't think this one is going to get solved anytime soon.

    PS i wouldn't take me too seriously, i just like to screw around.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB
    Well from the ammount of posts you have I can tell you are fairly new. Which means I am not terribly concerned about what you had to say.
    What does the amount of posts or the fact to be new on a particular forum have to do ?
    There is a live outside internet. If Hawking wrote here under a strange webname, would you ignore him, just because he has only one post ?
    Do you think that 1000 stupids posts worth more, than ten of high value ?

    Or did you say, that because he is new you are not annoyed by his sarcasms ? (wich is very different indeed)
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  44. #43  
    Forum Freshman Draculogenes's Avatar
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    good point, but i'm trying to be mature now... i just let those things slide, like a grown-up, a real man would. wahahahaha...
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  45. #44  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
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    wow wow wow slow down doc...

    The reason I commented on the fact that he was new is because I haven't ahd any issues with him before. For example Zelos and I seem to disagree alot so I almost expect it and it kind gets anoying sometimes. whereas Draculogenes is new so I didn't care so much about his 'negative' (if I can call them that) remarks. That is all that meant. For all I knew he was just messing with me for the hell of it.

    I didn't mean that I didn't care what he had to say.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  46. #45  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
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    dabob, it is illogical that the mind have such a control on a councius level, certain things shall be kept away from the councius to keep it working, immune system is one of them, heart etc. if the councius mind is involved the body gets alot of problems
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  47. #46  
    Forum Junior Powerdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB
    wow wow wow slow down doc...

    The reason I commented on the fact that he was new is because I haven't ahd any issues with him before. For example Zelos and I seem to disagree alot so I almost expect it and it kind gets anoying sometimes. whereas Draculogenes is new so I didn't care so much about his 'negative' (if I can call them that) remarks. That is all that meant. For all I knew he was just messing with me for the hell of it.

    I didn't mean that I didn't care what he had to say.
    Good to hear that :-D
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  48. #47  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    dabob, it is illogical that the mind have such a control on a councius level, certain things shall be kept away from the councius to keep it working, immune system is one of them, heart etc. if the councius mind is involved the body gets alot of problems
    I understand this. It's just that it also seems illogical to attack a perfectly good source of nutrients (cause an allergic reaction). I'll try to come up with more substancial evidence. Untill then I guess it is nothing more than one of my crazy ideas.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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