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Thread: Vaccines

  1. #1 Vaccines 
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    The NCIRS states that "deaths in Australia from vaccine preventable diseases (VPDs) have declined by more than 99%" since the introduction of most of the vaccines in the 1950's.

    The insinuation here is that vaccines are responsible for reducing deaths from VPD's by more than 99%.

    Yet Aust. NZ Journal of Public Health states "The most obvious trends over the period are the decline in infectious disease mortality (half the decline 19071990 occurs before 1949)."
    This article also states that infant mortality in Australia declined from 120 per 1000 before 1890 to 8 per 1000 in 1990, 40% of this decline had occurred before 1910 and 70% by the mid 1940.

    Am I missing something here the statistics don't match the claims about the affectiveness of vaccines?


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  3. #2  
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    Vaccines no doubt save millions. Improved sanitation and hygiene have probably saved more.

    Saying VPD deaths have declined by 99% since the introduction of vaccines is not the same as saying vaccines have caused a 99% decrease in VPD mortality.

    Could you provide a link to the stats?


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  4. #3  
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    Vaccines have even rendered one disease (smallpox) extinct, which used to kill millions. Almost universally, vaccine preventable disease has dropped dramatically globally, whereas diseases that we have no vaccines for, such as AIDS, continue to get more prevalent.

    We get some minor reversals of this trend where anti-vaccination nutters gain ground. Like the recent upsurge in whooping cough deaths. The whooping cough vaccine acceptance has dropped, and deaths rise.
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prometheus
    Vaccines no doubt save millions. Improved sanitation and hygiene have probably saved more.

    Saying VPD deaths have declined by 99% since the introduction of vaccines is not the same as saying vaccines have caused a 99% decrease in VPD mortality.

    Could you provide a link to the stats?
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...142.x/abstract
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  6. #5  
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    I understand that"Saying VPD deaths have declined by 99% since the introduction of vaccines is not the same as saying vaccines have caused a 99% decrease in VPD mortality." but the insinuation is there. Which poses the question why is it worded like that?


    "Vaccines have even rendered one disease (smallpox) extinct, which used to kill millions."

    What about plagues of hundreds of years ago that don't exhist now?

    It is fine to claim that vaccines have saved millions of lives but if we draw a graph from the statistics quoted from the Aust. NZ Journal of Public Health they have little affect.

    Just plaing devils advocate.
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  7. #6  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
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    The first vaccines were used in England in the early 18th century, but were not widespread for 100 years.

    According to a graph in Prof. Julian Simon's book : The State of Humanity, average life span in England was about 40 years from 1543 to 1863, when it began increasing rapidly to its current value of about 80.

    So the increase in lifespan runs exactly level with the degree to which the population were immunised against disease.
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  8. #7  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard i_feel_tiredsleepy's Avatar
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    Hygiene is an important factor in limiting many parasite born diseases, like the plague and Typhus, that used to kill steadily up until the 19th century. Then water and food sanitation is important in limiting death from typhoid, dysentery, and cholera.

    Vaccines are an important factor in limiting death from measles, smallpox, polio, yellow fever, tetanus, rubella, streptococcus, Tb, and the annual flu.

    All these things are still important, and a halt in any of them would result in the resurgence of these diseases. You can clean away the measles or polio (though smallpox is extinct except for some samples in Russian and US labs).
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by beaver13
    I understand that"Saying VPD deaths have declined by 99% since the introduction of vaccines is not the same as saying vaccines have caused a 99% decrease in VPD mortality." but the insinuation is there. Which poses the question why is it worded like that?
    Does anyone else have problems with the wiley library? Can't open the pdf. Based on the abstract can't tell why they would have worded it such, the context might shed some light on it.

    Might just be an innocent mistake. They might assume their readership will realise they are not infering causation. Might be a deliberate ploy to exagerate vaccine efficacy. Or it might be an accurate representation of things, depending on exactly how they have defined VPD.
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  10. #9  
    Veracity Vigilante inow's Avatar
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    I am not aware if a vaccine can help with depression, especially since it is not caused by a virus or other similar organism. You can, however, treat and prevent it quite well with regular exercise.
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  11. #10  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope skeptic's Avatar
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    inow

    You cannot be sure of that.
    There is evidence that a lot of mental illness is caused by virus infections. Some schizophrenia, for example, responds to anti-viral drugs.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4365487
    http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/124/580/273

    I quote :

    "Patients with unipolar or bipolar depressive psychoses and senile or atherosclerotic dementia had a significantly higher incidence of herpes simplex virus and cytomegalovirus antibodies than was found in schizophrenics or patients with other psychiatric disorders or in groups of healthy controls."

    It is actually quite possible that some forms of depression have microbiological causes.
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  12. #11  
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    Cool. Thanks.
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