Thread: Nutrition: Soy products, harmful?

Hey, I was looking up the benefits and harmful effects of proteïn rich foods, when I came across a website which listed all the harmful effects of the vegetarians holy grail: soy. I've also read a personal story from a woman who got cancers (plural) from eating soy.

Here's a short summary of the negative effects of soy:

* contributes to thyroid disorder (edit: cancer), especially in women

* promotes kidney stones

* weakens the immune system

* contributes to food allergies and digestive intolerance

You can type "soy harmfull" into google, but here're some sites for your convience:

http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/soy.htm

http://www.naturalnews.com/022630.html

Even wikipedia(!!!!) says soy has some harmfull effects, but they also say their list is not complete:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soy_mil...health_effects

I wanted to eat cereal with soy for about every day (milk is not an option since i'm a bit lactose intolerant (and milk is not healthy for non-babies)).

Reading all this this makes me reconsider. What is YOUR opinion on this matter, and also if you know a few healthy protein rich breakfast alternatives to soy, I'd be happy to know. Well basically I think I'll eat peanut butter, fish and other meat for breakfast, but alternative ideas are welcome.

Cheetah

Nothing in our diet is harmless. Every damn thing has some problem. Potatoes, for example, contain the alkaloid toxin called solanine, and can cause harm. Even tomatoes and lettuce contain toxins.

However, the basic rule is that our bodies are adapted by millions of years of evolution to cope with toxins to a certain level. Balance is the key. Eat anything you want, but not to excess. Soy products are healthy if consumed in reasonable amounts. If you go crazy and eat or drink too much, well.......

Originally Posted by skeptic

Cheetah

Nothing in our diet is harmless. Every damn thing has some problem. Potatoes, for example, contain the alkaloid toxin called solanine, and can cause harm. Even tomatoes and lettuce contain toxins.

However, the basic rule is that our bodies are adapted by millions of years of evolution to cope with toxins to a certain level. Balance is the key. Eat anything you want, but not to excess. Soy products are healthy if consumed in reasonable amounts. If you go crazy and eat or drink too much, well.......

skeptic is right you know. anything in overdose causes health problems. Even drinking too much water can kill you (water intoxication)

There are other options besides soy milk as well. You could use lactases with your regular milk, or use almond milk.

I don't think drinking cow milk every day would be particularly healthy either.

To tired and sleepy

Re cow's milk. Latest research shows that it is, in fact, very healthy.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0722083720.htm

I don't think drinking milk is bad, just the idea of a bowl of cereal a day with milk is probably more milk than a person should be drinking, it's an awful lot of fat.

To the person who is always tired and sleepy.

Sure, too much fat is bad. No problem. Buy and drink lots of low fat milk.

A bowl of milk a day is not nearly too much fat. Saturated fats are unjustly chastised in mainstream circles.

The only truly "bad" fat is trans. Saturated fats have a plethora of health benefits, and there's evidence that high fat (non-Atkins) diets have lipolytic properties.

Except if you are consuming a bowl of whole milk every morning you're pretty much consuming the daily recommended amount of saturated fat. Just because saturated fat is a good and necessary part of a healthy diet isn't a reason to chomp into a stick of butter.

Most of the benefits of milk are attributed to the effect of a high calcium diet, a high calcium diet improved blood pressure and inhibits hunger, both good things. Yogurts and cheeses are both equally viable sources of calcium.

Also, consuming the same of everything almost every day just isn't sensible. It's unlikely that anyone without some serious research could manage to plan a daily diet that could supply all their nutritional needs without any variation.

To tired and sleepy.

Drinking milk. There is nothing to stop anyone drinking a substantial amount of milk every day, as long as it is low fat. I start my day, every day, with a large bowl of weak milk coffee. Weak in two ways. Not much coffee and not much fat. The milk I drink is 0.3% saturated fat.

Getting a balanced diet. Easy. And yes, if you wanted to, you could have the same food every day and still get a fully balanced diet. A little red meat at one meal gives you all the iron, zinc and amino acids you need. A little fish at another reinforces the protein and gives you an omega 3 plus minerals dose. A handful of mixed nuts once a day for a snack, including brazil nuts for selenium. Multi-grain/wholemeal bread or toast at one meal. And lots of fruit and vegetables contain a wide range of vitamins, minerals, and anti-oxidants. I would suggest potatoes, cooked onions, a tomato, a brassica, a kiwifruit, a handful of grapes, and a handful of blueberries every day. Meat cooked in olive oil. A little tea or coffee, plus low fat milk for calcium, and a little red wine. With that mix, you would never suffer any deficiency disease, and you have every chance of living to a hundred.

I remember a case many years ago, when a man was admitted to hospital with scurvey. Apparently, he ate nothing but fish and french fries, plus beer. What struck me was the doctor's comment. He said : "If he only ate the parsley always supplied with the fish meal, he would have been OK." Basically, getting a balanced diet is not as difficult as most people think. If really takes genuine stupidity to eat so badly that vitamin and mineral supplements are required.

Of course, such stupidity is remarkably common. Vegans, for example, often need iron and vitamin B12 supplements, but that just proves my point.

http://www.ahrq.gov/clinic/epcsums/soysum.pdf

/real nutritionist

to answer to the original post ;
There is also lactose-free milk around these days , not containing soymilk.

It does taste like real milk ...
I don't claim that this is a healthy option but it is an option none the less.

Originally Posted by samcdkey

http://www.ahrq.gov/clinic/epcsums/soysum.pdf

/real nutritionist

"Nutritionist" is not a protected term in the US or the UK. Real or otherwise, the use of the term is a red flag indicating a probable quack. The report above is nothing of the sort, it is from a branch the US department of health, so I'd guess the authors are dieticians. Much more trustworthy!

Originally Posted by TheBiologista

Originally Posted by samcdkey

http://www.ahrq.gov/clinic/epcsums/soysum.pdf

/real nutritionist

"Nutritionist" is not a protected term in the US or the UK. Real or otherwise, the use of the term is a red flag indicating a probable quack. The report above is nothing of the sort, it is from a branch the US department of health, so I'd guess the authors are dieticians. Much more trustworthy!

Because dietitians do research on food safety? Heh, scientist is also not a protected term anywhere. Based on experience I would say that most of the authors were either medical specialists or scientists and dietitians were used to prepare the diets for the subjects and might be included as part of the team. However, I do not see RD after any authors name.

Originally Posted by samcdkey

Originally Posted by TheBiologista

Originally Posted by samcdkey

http://www.ahrq.gov/clinic/epcsums/soysum.pdf

/real nutritionist

"Nutritionist" is not a protected term in the US or the UK. Real or otherwise, the use of the term is a red flag indicating a probable quack. The report above is nothing of the sort, it is from a branch the US department of health, so I'd guess the authors are dieticians. Much more trustworthy!

Because dietitians do research on food safety? Heh, scientist is also not a protected term anywhere.

Ah, did you mean that you count yourself as a "real nutritionist"? Hope that I did not offend. Albeit much abused itself, "scientist" is a term with a very broad meaning (one who uses the scientific method to acquire knowledge). Nutritionist is a term presented as being a profession with specific qualifications, making the bearer an expert in nutrition and food health.

Originally Posted by samcdkey

Based on experience I would say that most of the authors were either medical specialists or scientists and dietitians were used to prepare the diets for the subjects and might be included as part of the team. However, I do not see RD after any authors name.

Well the report itself is a systematic review of numerous clinical trials, so it's possible that the reviewers are neither RD or MD, though they would each have at least a PhD. They probably wouldn't list that in either case. But the trials examined probably involved both RDs and MDs.

Originally Posted by TheBiologista

Ah, did you mean that you count yourself as a "real nutritionist"? Hope that I did not offend. Albeit much abused itself, "scientist" is a term with a very broad meaning (one who uses the scientific method to acquire knowledge). Nutritionist is a term presented as being a profession with specific qualifications, making the bearer an expert in nutrition and food health.

Yup and psychologist means one with training in psychology. And biologist means one with training in biology. I refrain from using the word expert because resistance to training is pretty ubiquitous.

However, I am willing to respond to any queries on the issue by anyone who has read the summary.



Its a government report, so its most likely a team put together for the effort.

About Soy

Soy is very high in protein, and you don't need much protein to survive. If soy was my only source of protein(which would be stupid, boring and very difficult to get other nutrients without supplements) 5 servings of soy flour(1.25 cups or 150 grams) would be all it takes to get 70 grams of protein. I could down that in one meal if I didn't pay attention to that sort of thing, and I'm willing to bet there are many people who don't.

Soy is not dangerous, ignorance is dangerous.

About Kidney Stones

Everyone has kidney stones, constantly. Most of them get passed without the slightest notice. The problem with kidney stones is if you do not have a healthy urinary tract and crystals are allowed to build up to abnormal size before passing. This can happen because of scarred tissue, overly acidic urine, and tremendous excess in unused minerals.

Generally, if you drink the recommended amount of water, haven't gotten kicked in the kidneys(or otherwise damaged), or don't take excessive mineral supplements, you won't get painful stones, unless you have an underlying condition that makes you susceptible to them, in which case soy is less dangerous than milk, meat and especially crustaceans. If your worried, there are things you can eat to force crystals to detach, and things to prevent them from forming.


About milk

Whole milk has much more nutritional value, without fortification. Saturated fat isn't that bad unless it's a huge part of your diet. 3 cups of whole milk is just under 3/4 your daily recommended saturated fat intake.

The amino acid quality of skim milk is better than whole milk.

Also, saturated fat is a misleading term. There are many degrees of saturation. The higher saturation the worse it is, compare Pig Lard with Palm Oil.

Originally Posted by marcusclayman

Also, saturated fat is a misleading term. There are many degrees of saturation. The higher saturation the worse it is, compare Pig Lard with Palm Oil.

The term saturated refers to no C=C bonds in the lipid molecules. If there is a single C=C bond in the fat molecule, it is then called monounsaturated.

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