I was just wondering if all factors were removed, such as people revolting against what ever you choose would be best for them and what not, could there be one way to cure depression?
I was just wondering if all factors were removed, such as people revolting against what ever you choose would be best for them and what not, could there be one way to cure depression?
What's the connection between revolution and depression.
I searched PubMed and couldn't find it.
Depression is a state of mind caused by faulty perception
Most things look revolting when you are depressed
Oh, I misread that word in the opening post. I read revolution for some reason.
its quite alright i should have worded it betterOriginally Posted by spuriousmonkey
A single 'cure' is unlikely since depression is not a single disease. There are many forms of depression with many different causes. The closest I could come to would be a variation of morphine or heroine that did not addict. However, while treated with your potent antidepressant, I doubt you would be good for much....
As I said before
Depression is a state of mind caused by faulty perception.
E.g Seeing the glass half empty instead of half full etc.
Everyone gets down and in the doldrums and has periods of negative thinking.
But this can readily turn into habit if it persist over a period of time.
Drugs only give temporary relief in order to enable the patient to muster the right energy to lift the depression by feeling a little more positively.
The real cure for depression is to immerse ones self in as many positive activities and thoughts as possible, and re-train the mind to think and speak more positively and optimistically.
Our thoughts determine how much energy our body is willing to give up for each task or activity.
If one approaches a task with positive enthusiasm, seeing the task as manageable, than the body responds with more enthusiasm and energy, and the task is manageable, and ironically the body gains more energy from doing it.
If one approaches a task negatively, with a sense of dread and loathing, dragging one feet and complaining that it will never work, than the body responds synonymously and the task becomes and unmanageable wearysome chore and the body loses energy from doing it.
The first attitude produces bags of energy, more than enough for the task at hand. The second attitude doesn't produce enough energy for the task at hand.
One of the real difficulties in treating depression comes from negative habits learned in childhood. Modes of thinking and action we learned from our parents.
A parent who reacts negatively, becomes easily stressed, will pass on those behaviors to their children.
Depression of this type is much harder to treat, but not impossible, but it takes a lot more work and time.
i dont understand what you meanOriginally Posted by Lady Z
i think dr amen on youtube makes sense
social problems tend to be diverse, moreso than regular physical ailments. If its difficult to nail down a singular cure for a physical ailment, you certainly have your work cut out for you if you're looking for a singular cure for depression
Depends what kind of depression you be talkin' 'bout
If it's the get up in the morning "man I hate work" huffing and puffing depression then a cold shower and brisk walk in the cold is the best cure, with the occasional smack round the face
If it's the medical condition Depression then there isn't a cure, Depression is a mental problem to which no one but the sufferer has the cure, 'Anti-Depressants' are simply endophin releasers that overwhelm the depression and hold it at bay temporarily (I know I'm a 'sufferer' of Manic Depression.... go me! )
That's not how antidepressants work.Originally Posted by Booms
(unipolar) Depression can be cured.
Not really. The truth is that no one really understands why some drugs work as anti-depressants.Originally Posted by Booms
Depression is a natural state which should be felt and observed by the victim so that they may learn from it. If our state of mind is a result of our genetics, environment, and our reactions to these than depression is no more a delusional state than is enlightenment. To say one state feels better than another is to have missed the point of the feeling.
but can't depression actually be a physical problem? isn't there such thing as a state where the brain is unable to produce the proper chemicals that provide a sense of well being? i had a friend who was depressed for years for "no reason". she just felt awful all the time. there was no apparent reason for it, no stresses no problems, she just felt sad all the time.
also i often feel this way when suffering from premenstrual symptoms. i know it is caused by an imbalance in my hormones and not from any external "reason" or perception of events in my life.
maybe society made her depressed.
or you did.
spuriousmonkey may be right.
I have the kind of personality where very few people, if any, will notice if I'm depressed, stressed or anxious. Sometimes I can't even tell myself. It's a process and their is cause. A long lasting wound or mental state should be expected to take a long time to heal. Maybe your friend is still healing or maybe they are not ready to accept the commitment of healing.
depression ruins one's mind very easily if you let it control you. only way to get out of it is to think " it's just depression, ignore it. everything's okay " and it's gone. simple
do you have any evidence to support this claim? I have depression, and I fight it. I don't let it control me, but whatever I do, wherever I am, it's still there. I don't think it will ever be gone.Originally Posted by mundant
I think there are too many factors that can lead to depression and not just one single factor that comes into play. Things like peer pressure, economic hardship, competency, need for affection are somehow determined by the way our society has made us to accept.
There is only one universal cure for depression: marijuana.
Can I get that on the NHS?Originally Posted by Obviously
Marijuana is merely a distraction.Originally Posted by Obviously
'Tis better to measure one's accomplishments on what they have overcome, not what they have avoided.
Has marijuana been shown to treat depression or is that just your own appeal to popular opinion?
Marijuana makes me highly irritable, but it is dependant on whoever I am around. This shows me that marijuana make me more impressionable.
So if your smoking weed a lot, hanging out with the same crowd, and your depressed a lot, consider hanging out with a different crowd for a period of time and seeing if the depression lessens.
Naturally, a change of scenery may lessen symptoms. But then again, it doesn't sound like you want to cure the cause.
I was being quasi-sarcastic (if there even is such a thing).
Marijuana, though, has shown to be promising as potential therapy for some diseases.
For the record, I have actually never even tried marijuana. Though I don't see why I shouldn't at some point in time. Digging through some of the scientific literature, it seems to have some positive results.
However, I wouldn't consider myself up to date with all the facts yet.
I figured you were being sarcastic, but I still wanted to make my point.Originally Posted by Obviously
Also, there are many things that scientific literature seems to show positive results for. Do you expect to give all these things a try?
For example: daily exercise (including lots of stretching), mediation practice (for focus, relaxation, concentration, learning, etc.), continuous healthy diet, activities that stimulate the mind (mental activities, not physical ones), healthy social interaction, etc. etc.
Funny how people automatically go for alternatives when all they need is right in front of them.
I love it when people blame their use of drugs on it's "positive effects". Gosh, I would have turned out so much better a person if I had just smoked cigs, marijuana, and drank more alcohol. Less depression, weight loss, calmer mood, higher self esteem, get to hang with the cool kids, get to do the drunk girls, laugh about stupid things, forget the pains of life. In moderation of course. Can anyone sense my sarcasm?
What I can currectly gather from the scientific literature, cigarettes and alcohol do more physical harm and make you more dependent than marijuana. If one is first to choose a recreational drug, why not choose the less harmful one?Originally Posted by DaBOB
The most popular psychoactive drugs in the world are the following (from Wiki):
- Ethanol (commonly known as alcohol) - Legal in most parts of the world.
- Caffeine (from coffee, tea and other plant sources) - Legal everywhere.
- Theobromine (caffeine-related substance found in chocolate) - Legal everywhere.
- Cannabis (cannabinoids, primarily tetrahydrocannabinol) - Illegal in many parts of the world.
- Tobacco (nicotine) - Legal in most parts of the world.
The only thing which is different with marijuana is that it is illegal, even though, arguably, it isn't anymore harmful than some of the already legal recreational drugs. However, if anything, marijuana should be used for medical purposes. There no reason why not when it does have positive results.
Anyhow, overuse of any of the drugs mentioned is bad. If marijuana should one day become legal there should at least be, first of all; an age limit, and second of all; recommended use.
Humans have just about always used recreational drugs. Even some other species does something quite similar.
BUT... going back to the subject. Terminally ill patients who get prescribed medical marijuana seem to more or less overcome depression, and get pain relief. I (recently) saw the program on National Geographic about marijuana where a women suffering cancer seem to do quite well and seemed quite content with the marijuana.
I do understand your alternatives for depression, but it's not always that such alternatives are good enough. I myself don't smoke, rarely drink and do on occasion some physical activities, mental activities and meditate. That, however, won't keep me from trying recreational drugs, if only for the experience. I remember trying a cigarette on a party once, and I didn't get it. I told some of my friends (who smoke regulary) about it and pointed out how pointless such a drug is if it does more harm than good. All cigarettes do are to make you dependent. It's the same as eating cheeze-burgers and drinking cola. Those, too, might as well be thought of as recreational drugs because the way they work as a superstimuli for our evolved preference for sugar, etc.
Meh, I've been rambling like a crazy person, making more points than necessary. I hope this doesn't halt the discussion though.
More precisely, has it been shown as therapeutic for depression?Originally Posted by Obviously
Keep in mind that tobacco and alcohol have been tested a lot more than marijuana. Marijuana has higher levels of some toxins, like ammonia and hydrogen cyanide, than tobacco. Taking bigger drags makes the heat of the smoke increase substantially and so it is common to burn the back of one's throat. Smokers generally hold these hits in longer than tobacco as well in effort to get more THC, but this also means they get more of everything else as well.Originally Posted by Obviously
Using vaporizers to smoke marijuana and eating it are the healthiest ways to use it.
That's odd, sugar and adrenaline don't make the list. It just goes to show how deeply ingrained these addictions are.Originally Posted by Obviously
I'm curious about the control studies on this. Marijuana, like most drugs, are done in social settings. Your mind often relates unrelated things that were done in relation to each other in the past. For example, being in a happy social gathering most of the time when you are smoking marijuana may make you happy and social whenever you smoke it, even when smoking alone. The drug itself may not have that power. Just like a placebo.Originally Posted by Obviously
THC is a neural transmitter. Misinformed hipsters often use this as evidence that we need weed, or that smoking weed is "natural." This is naive, to say the least. THC is just one chemical in a group of structurally similar molecules called "cannibinoids." Your body makes cannibinoids and you get them
THC is one type of cannibinoid. Cannibinoids are a structurally similar group of molecules, most of which are found in the Cannibus plant, but some of which your body makes. The cannibinoids in canibus are merely structurally similar to the cannibinoids that your body makes, and thus they interact with our body in a similar way.
Chemical imbalances, IE, neural transmitter imbalances, are the cause and/or effect of mental problems, including but not limited to depression. I'm not saying that cannibinoid imbalances cause depression, so don't jump to conclusions about my point. Your cannibinoid receptors are mostly found in your brain, but also your liver, lungs, reproductive system and immune system. So instead of curing the cause of one imbalance, you will probably just be trading one for another.
Indeed, I think this topic deserves it's own thread, I've been doing a little research. I smoke occasionally but I'm health conscious so I'm relatively unbiased about the subject. I have seen the negative social implications, and the crime that is caused by the hipster's flag of social unity and peace. Nonetheless I am not against it, but I am against the propaganda on both sides of the fence.Originally Posted by Obviously
Searching around in PubMed for articles correlating cannabis use and depression, I found this:Originally Posted by marcusclayman
"CONCLUSIONS: Heavy cannabis use and depression are associated and evidence from longitudinal studies suggests that heavy cannabis use may increase depressive symptoms among some users. It is still too early, however, to rule out the hypothesis that the association is due to common social, family and contextual factors that increase risks of both heavy cannabis use and depression. Longitudinal studies and studies of twins discordant for heavy cannabis use and depression are needed to rule out common causes. If the relationship is causal, then on current patterns of cannabis use in the most developed societies cannabis use makes, at most, a modest contribution to the population prevalence of depression."
And this, which suggests that any abuse of the substance will have negative effects (quite elaborate article):
I also found this interesting article (when searching on google) suggesting that low doses of THC can have anti-depressive effects while large doses does the opposite:
"Low doses had a potent anti-depressant effect, but when we increased the dose, the serotonin in the rats' brains actually dropped below the level of those in the control group. So we actually demonstrated a double effect: At low doses it increases serotonin, but at higher doses the effect is devastating, completely reversed."
"Excessive cannabis use in people with depression poses high risk of psychosis,"
"We know that it's entirely possible to produce drugs which will enhance endo-cannabinoids for the treatment of pain, depression and anxiety,"
Here's a number of articles considering cannabis abuse:
Now, this is the first time I've done a bit more of an exstensive research on cannabis. Due to the result I've found, I can conclude that with controlled low doses of THC, you can gain anti-depressive effects and it shows promising theraputic potential. However, larger doses and long-term abuse seems to have many negative consequences. It's clear that if cannabis should ever be legal, it should be a drug which is only obtainable with prescriptions from certified doctors.
I'm glad I did the proper research though. I learned a lot.
I agree. Any anti-depressive effects it might have could still be discussed here, but it seems to be alot of interesting articles I haven't explored which might be discussed in a new thread.Originally Posted by marcusclayman
I don't care whether or not drugs are legal or not. My point is that drugs are nothing more than products for money. All these things you mentioned, plus many more are produced, sold, advertised, and researched because they are entertaining and people are influenced to want them. There are many things we can do to occupy our time in more "productive" and efficient ways without many of these substances.Originally Posted by Obviously
I think it's silly to want to try something just to say you've had the experience. Why don't you try opium or LSD while you're at it. How about sky diving, traveling, engaging in self improving activities of some sort? What is it about marijuana that makes it worth trying when other things aren't? Is it because an entire religious/philosophical belief is based on it's use? Look what happens when you ban alcohol, or start selling mass amounts of opium to a country. How about war? These are problems which are results of human weakness of mind. The inability to come to a logical, thought out, and discussed plan. People do stupid things for even more stupid reasons; I am no exception.
My point is merely that maybe our interests should not be in how we can compete with other's status quo but how we can challenge our own. If you are depressed you shouldn't go out and find some drug so that you can function like others in society. Rather, you should observe yourself, ask people for help or ideas, work on who you are. The more you improve on who you are the more you improve on what you are capable of. Challenge yourself.
Now I'm rambling.
Hmm...Originally Posted by DaBOB
We seem to be sliding off subject here. I would never even think about trying heavy drugs which has the potential to alter your very being after only one try. And I don't find it to be a fair comparingson. Marijuana is often referred to as the "safe high", although heavy use of it is detrimental.
Doing things for adrenaline kicks, working out, etc, are just another way of releasing chemicals which often have the same effect as drugs. The only difference is that it's not detrimental. Your body controls it, and you actually gain something from it.
As I've said, I understand what you're getting at, and I'm all for it. I'm just the cat with the semi-curiousity which would like to, if anything, lightly explore the other side. I've been drunk a couple of times and had fun, but the experience isn't something I really care much about, so I rarely go out to party with friends. I don't even like coffee at all, but I might consume caffeine on rare occasions if I need an extra boost (like I do on band practices at times).
My point is that occasional and rare recreational use of drugs which really do not do much harm unless you're abusing it is okay. If it fights off and helps you with your depression, great. But there obviously needs to be a balance. And that balance can really only be found with personal experience. I'm, at least, perfectly content with things right now because I've found my balance.
These are things which vary from person to person. It doesn't always have to do with being with the wrong crowd or anything. Some people go to search for balance and end up on an extreme.
Anyhow, there is no universal cure for depression. It's a part of who we are, and we all deal with it differently I guess. Also, its existence proves a purpose for it, so it's also something we might need from time to time, perhaps as a sign for something else.
A lot of factors are getting in to play here so I'll stop my ramble for now. It feels like some good discussion on the topic at hand might spring about from here.
Perhaps it is time to bring in some science here for some good measure:
Perhaps some articles here could be relevant to the discussion?
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