Thread: Bipolarity

Does bipolar also make people come across as arrogant?

Originally Posted by Numsgil

Does bipolar also make people come across as arrogant?

Perhaps a rather strange combination of arrogance and ignorance, both in large doses it seems.

Originally Posted by Numsgil

Does bipolar also make people come across as arrogant?

Unfortunately for me yes. But only during a manic cycle.
Sorry guys. I am still learning how to control my creative
genius power. It seems that it is when I am manic that my
I.Q. of 187 shows up. I am trying to keep it level.

But when I am depressed my I.Q drops down to below
100, and I look as ignorant as the rest of you. Right now
I am at about 105-107. I have been as low as 95.
Please pray for me.

Well how are you managing your bipolar? There are a whole range of medications available, plus obviously counseling. Look, I can understand looking at something others would call a disorder and thinking of it as a gift, but bipolar can be dangerous left untreated, especially the manic episodes.

Originally Posted by Numsgil

Well how are you managing your bipolar? There are a whole range of medications available, plus obviously counseling. Look, I can understand looking at something others would call a disorder and thinking of it as a gift, but bipolar can be dangerous left untreated, especially the manic episodes.

Yes you are right. But medications only hamper my creativity
so I use no meds. If you only knew how I have suffered for
my art. But my art is all i have to offer the world, since my physics
is way out of date. There is something evil about mania that scares
me too. All I can do is to watch myself like a hawk and try and not
sound so arrogant. 8)

It's dangerous to put so much of your ego into something like that, because then you can't take criticism effectively. You can be another Mozart, but someone somewhere isn't going to like your work, and you're going to take it personally because so much of how you define yourself is that work. At risk of sounding like a psych 101 student, I think your arrogance is a defense mechanism because having to accept criticism would literally burst your self image, and send you in to a depressive tail spin.

If you're willing to take my advice, with my not knowing your situation:

1. Whether medication or counseling, get the manic and the depressive elements under control. Where "under control" is defined by someone else or some absolute metric.

2. Focus on interpersonal relationships. While difficult for people with bipolar, a strong relationship can have a good grounding effect for the ego. Far less volatile than framing your self image around "creative genius". It doesn't necessarily have to be a romantic relationship, just something where you know someone has your back no matter what.

With 1 and 2, then you can safely concentrate on side interests and not need to come across arrogant.

disclaimer: I do not know what the hell I am talking about. Use at your own risk :P

Originally Posted by Numsgil

It's dangerous to put so much of your ego into something like that, because then you can't take criticism effectively. You can be another Mozart, but someone somewhere isn't going to like your work, and you're going to take it personally because so much of how you define yourself is that work. At risk of sounding like a psych 101 student, I think your arrogance is a defense mechanism because having to accept criticism would literally burst your self image, and send you in to a depressive tail spin.

If you're willing to take my advice, with my not knowing your situation:

1. Whether medication or counseling, get the manic and the depressive elements under control. Where "under control" is defined by someone else or some absolute metric.

2. Focus on interpersonal relationships. While difficult for people with bipolar, a strong relationship can have a good grounding effect for the ego. Far less volatile than framing your self image around "creative genius". It doesn't necessarily have to be a romantic relationship, just something where you know someone has your back no matter what.

With 1 and 2, then you can safely concentrate on side interests and not need to come across arrogant.

disclaimer: I do not know what the hell I am talking about. Use at your own risk :P

Grandiosity is a symptom of my kind of bipolarity. And yes meds would help.
But as I said, taking meds only hampers the creative process.
The truth is, my bipolarity will eventually kill me so I am trying to do as
much art as I can before that happens. In a full manic episode, I am not
safe to be around. There are many books written about people like me
so I know that I am not going to always be liked by everyone. But if a little
grandiosity is the price I must pay to be able to create beautiful art, then
so mode it be. I will say to everyone right now:
Sorry in advance that I may sound arrogant egoistical and just plain foolish.
Just don't take it personal and know that I am just a crazy artist who once
worked at Stanford University physics department because of his creative
genius and nothing else.

For christ sake he's not bipolar he's a troll.

Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy

For christ sake he's not bipolar he's a troll.

His posts do have the same flavour as the Wiki article on Bipolar disorder...

Originally Posted by Gyd

Originally Posted by Numsgil

It's dangerous to put so much of your ego into something like that, because then you can't take criticism effectively. You can be another Mozart, but someone somewhere isn't going to like your work, and you're going to take it personally because so much of how you define yourself is that work. At risk of sounding like a psych 101 student, I think your arrogance is a defense mechanism because having to accept criticism would literally burst your self image, and send you in to a depressive tail spin.

If you're willing to take my advice, with my not knowing your situation:

1. Whether medication or counseling, get the manic and the depressive elements under control. Where "under control" is defined by someone else or some absolute metric.

2. Focus on interpersonal relationships. While difficult for people with bipolar, a strong relationship can have a good grounding effect for the ego. Far less volatile than framing your self image around "creative genius". It doesn't necessarily have to be a romantic relationship, just something where you know someone has your back no matter what.

With 1 and 2, then you can safely concentrate on side interests and not need to come across arrogant.

disclaimer: I do not know what the hell I am talking about. Use at your own risk :P

Grandiosity is a symptom of my kind of bipolarity. And yes meds would help.
But as I said, taking meds only hampers the creative process.
The truth is, my bipolarity will eventually kill me so I am trying to do as
much art as I can before that happens. In a full manic episode, I am not
safe to be around. There are many books written about people like me
so I know that I am not going to always be liked by everyone. But if a little
grandiosity is the price I must pay to be able to create beautiful art, then
so mode it be. I will say to everyone right now:
Sorry in advance that I may sound arrogant egoistical and just plain foolish.
Just don't take it personal and know that I am just a crazy artist who once
worked at Stanford University physics department because of his creative
genius and nothing else.

See, that's what I'm warning against. You put your entire concept of self worth into a creative endeavor. But what if not everyone likes your work. What if some day some famous music or art critic pans you? With the depressive part of bipolar you're going to send yourself into a possibly suicidal tailspin.

I put a lot of my self image and a lot of effort in to work, and when I was fired a few months ago it really shattered me. I wasn't suicidal or anything, but I was pretty mopey and miserable to be around. It was the support of my family and friends which made it tolerable. I didn't feel the need to blame my boss or anything like that, I could understand the situation dispassionately and honestly understand why I was fired and how to prevent it in the future. Without that social safety net it would have been very easy to become angry and bitter.

It's hard enough to take criticism without bipolar. The only way to be successful as a creative genius is to either lock yourself in a room and absolutely refuse to listen to anyone's negative feedback, or distance yourself from your work and try to improve.

Originally Posted by Gyd

But when I am depressed my I.Q drops down to below
100, and I look as ignorant as the rest of you.

<chuckle> Well at least you maintain your sense of humour.

Originally Posted by KALSTER

Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy

For christ sake he's not bipolar he's a troll.

His posts do have the same flavour as the Wiki article on Bipolar disorder...

Listen to kalster, he sees the connection.
Moving the rest of this thread was a good idea.
But it is hard to try and convince people that
bipolarity is real and that artistic temperament
should be tolerated somehow.

If an "artistic temperament" is potentially harmful to the artist, it probably shouldn't be tolerated. At the very least the work will eventually suffer. This reminds me of the movie Proof. Go rent it sometime if you haven't.

"If an "artistic temperament" is potentially harmful to the artist, it probably shouldn't be tolerated."

Damn good point!

Originally Posted by Numsgil

If an "artistic temperament" is potentially harmful to the artist, it probably shouldn't be tolerated. At the very least the work will eventually suffer.

I dunno. I've struggled with this personally. The main case was an art student I dated. She was one furious piece of work! Driven. And then she began to fall in love. So I could make this strange creature happy... happy at all costs? I decided that - especially at that time in her life - her art was more important. Well, I drove her up the wall. She had paintings hung up around the school, fantastic stuff, that wrenched my guts. They were her best yet.

Same idea, lighter note: Johnny Cash "A Boy Named Sue" (youtube)

The art student graduated, matured, mellowed. She's not crazy anymore. And that's the problem:

Originally Posted by Pong

Originally Posted by Numsgil

If an "artistic temperament" is potentially harmful to the artist, it probably shouldn't be tolerated. At the very least the work will eventually suffer.

I dunno. I've struggled with this personally. The main case was an art student I dated. She was one furious piece of work! Driven. And then she began to fall in love. So I could make this strange creature happy... happy at all costs? I decided that - especially at that time in her life - her art was more important. Well, I drove her up the wall. She had paintings hung up around the school, fantastic stuff, that wrenched my guts. They were her best yet.

Same idea, lighter note: Johnny Cash "A Boy Named Sue" (youtube)

The art student graduated, matured, mellowed. She's not crazy anymore. And that's the problem:

You miss her don't you?

Originally Posted by Gyd

You miss her don't you?

Just then yes, that element. I was never fond of the whole gal. I love the crazy in people.

Normally I'm keen on crazy like it's a detective novel to crack, or a puzzle to solve. And I've never met an adult with a boring psyche :-D. It's an exercise. But paradoxically, like all problem-solving behaviour, we work to put ourselves out of work. Then seek a fresh problem, and so on.

For some characters, especially artists, we let it go. Their imbalance is too valuable to correct. Driven people need that thing that drives them. We're supposed to intervene when individuals are a threat to themselves or others. That's how it is on paper, and it applies well in most cases. But when the problem begets excellence - a boon for the many or an extraordinary achievement for the larger person - then it's OK. If Mike Tyson liked to dull his brains against a concrete floor it would have been OK.

Of course empathizing with these people must be gut-wrenching.

It's kind of a moral dilemma. If a person's self destructive behavior benefits all of us, is it even moral to intervene at all given the benefit we all receive from it.

It's like that old psych joke:

"Doctor, my husband thinks he's a chicken"
"What, why didn't you say anything sooner?"
"Well, we needed the eggs."

:P

Does anyone know why my bipolar depressive cycle just
sucks the smarts right out of me? I really can't even think
during my depression. But in my manic cycle, I am up and
alive and thinking and doing. A good mania brings creative
production while a depression brings sitting and staring.
Does anyone else notice this about themselves? :?

Well, most of us don't have bipolar. But I am familiar with depression (family history), and that's pretty much depression. It's like your mind is in a "fog". Sadness is really only a tiny part of clinical depression, and you might not even feel sad and still have all the other symptoms.

My guess is that there's some chemical (dopamine?) which is cyclically produced in most people, and in bipolar the signals to start and stop producing it get muted, hence the wild swings.

Originally Posted by Numsgil

Well, most of us don't have bipolar. But I am familiar with depression (family history), and that's pretty much depression. It's like your mind is in a "fog". Sadness is really only a tiny part of clinical depression, and you might not even feel sad and still have all the other symptoms.

My guess is that there's some chemical (dopamine?) which is cyclically produced in most people, and in bipolar the signals to start and stop producing it get muted, hence the wild swings.

Ya, my mind feels like it's in a fog. G-d it's so damn weird. But when
I'm manic I really do know all the correct answers and fast. Your right
about not always feeling sad too but just dumb.

Somebody just shoot me please.

*walks away wondering if he should
even be a member of the science forum*

Originally Posted by Gyd

sucks the smarts

There are different ways to look at it, but in terms of cognitions I would say you're then labouring under weight of unsolved puzzles. The puzzles can't be thought through without your full open-minded attention - only thought about - so metaphorically are like oyster's pearls, black hole orbits, or tangles. One part of you is trying to just get on with life but other parts are preoccupied by the growing deadweight. The conscious "you" then experiences a shortage of faculties.

An illustration normal healthy people can relate to: You begin to run a bath, and the phone rings. You can't give full attention to a conversation with that water level rising in your mind.