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| theQuestIsNotOver |
 Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:07 am Post subject: gods in time |
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Forum Sophomore
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We make steps of genetic manipulation of animals, with the aim of creating life-forms compatible with this planet for our better survival. So, we are "creators". A human, we, are creator of animals...well, at least will be more so in the future. Yet, to say we "create" our own kind seems to go that step a little too far. Sounds like ancient Egypt, namely the need for those Gods like us to step back and let everything point yet again to the need for a gathering of "almost" human species to "look for the ultimate", to be subjected to God?
(is this the right section for this train of thought?) |
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| Skiyk |
| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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Location: Canada
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Sounds like Pseudoscience.
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A biophysicist talks physics to the biologists and biology to the physicists, but then he meets another biophysicist, they just discuss women.
E-Mail - skiyk@hotmail.com |
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| theQuestIsNotOver |
| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| No, it's more psychology, but with a more specific interest in the biological sciences. Basically, we don't stop at genetically manipulating animals, but we do stop with manipulating ourselves: why? That's not psuedoscience, yet in fact quite a specific question about what the ethics of biological manipulation are and why. |
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| i_feel_tiredsleepy |
| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Senior
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
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Location: Montreal
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For one experiments on manipulating human genes would result in the death of hundreds of fetuses before you would start to get successful results, which would usually cause all sorts of trouble in the media. By convention modern science refrains from experimentation on humans in ways that can harm people.
Moreover, it is unnecessary because the tools that are needed would be analagous in other mammals and we can learn just as much from animal test subjects. Currently we don't manipulate genes of animals for improvement purposes, usually it is to make suitable strains for research of disease. The research really isn't about making new animals, it has always been anthropocentric and I suppose the philosophy has always been not "how could we make new animals" but more "how could we make these animals more useful to humans".
Actually I think if we ever perfected genetic manipulation of mammals in a precise enough fashion to alter genes, and our understanding of human genetics increased, I do think there will be a strong debate over whether it is right or wrong to engineer your child. |
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| NeptuneCircle |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| I think that if we perfect gene alternation, there will be either gene therapy of gene alternation for genetic defects such as huntington's disease or muscular dystrophy. However, the debate will arise with what is considered a genetic defect and what isn't. For example, the inherited gene for sickle cell amenia is recessive, and has a terrible impact if one recieves the trait from both one's mother and father. However, the gene for sickle cell amenia helps defend against malaira if the trait from the other parent is dominant. Also, James Watson was heavily critized for stating that those with lower intelligent than average should recieve gene therapy. The idea of creating superhumans will be illegal, however there will be people who will do this illegally anyways. |
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| theQuestIsNotOver |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| The paradoxical thing about those who want to conduct research into human genetic manipulation is that they say it is their right of freedom to do so, when in fact what they are doing is supporting the idea of complete mind-body control, and thus human slavery. The whole process of human genetic manipulation puts the idea of a human into a virtual prison, from conception. |
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
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| theQuestIsNotOver wrote: |
| The paradoxical thing about those who want to conduct research into human genetic manipulation is that they say it is their right of freedom to do so, when in fact what they are doing is supporting the idea of complete mind-body control, and thus human slavery. The whole process of human genetic manipulation puts the idea of a human into a virtual prison, from conception. |
That is like saying that those involved in particle physics are supporting nuclear weapons. It does not follow and slippery slope. 
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| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:45 am Post subject: |
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Forum Radioactive Isotope
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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Kalster's comment redoubled, emphasised, and with bells and whistles on it.
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| sunshinewarrior |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:14 am Post subject: |
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To add to what Kalster and Ophi have said, let us also not forget that each act of mate selection is actually a deliberate attempt at altering the allele percentages in our population and hence an attempt at genetic control.
Similarly all domestication and cultivation exemplifies genetic modification.
That we are now working at what we believe to be a more 'basic' or fundamental level (the actual genes themselves) does not make the idea new, therefore, and if you had any concerns about playing god, they have applied for the last 12000 years at the very least. |
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| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Forum Radioactive Isotope
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| sunshinewarrio wrote: |
| .......therefore, and if you had any concerns about playing god, they have applied for the last 12000 years at the very least. |
Excellent point. I would modify it to read "they have applied consciously for the last 12000 years at the very least and unconsciously for a few billion years."
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The Universe is not only weirder than we imagine it is weirder than we can imagine. J.B.S.Haldane. |
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| sunshinewarrior |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| Ophiolite wrote: |
| sunshinewarrio wrote: |
| .......therefore, and if you had any concerns about playing god, they have applied for the last 12000 years at the very least. |
Excellent point. I would modify it to read "they have applied consciously for the last 12000 years at the very least and unconsciously for a few billion years." |
 Well said. |
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| h2so4hurts |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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I think it also all depends on what you believe a "god" can do. If genetic manipulation of life forms makes me a god, then we're really taking away some steam from the diety that made me and the universe
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