Notices

View Poll Results: Sick of the spammers?

Voters
17. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yeah.

    5 29.41%
  • DAMN RIGHT I AM.

    9 52.94%
  • No, they're only trying to make a living. In the wrong place.

    3 17.65%
Results 1 to 51 of 51

Thread: Why is the forum being spammed so excessivley latley?

  1. #1 Why is the forum being spammed so excessivley latley? 
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    I've seen dozens of members joining to terrorise us and nothing is being done, its poisening the forum. I think we should have vigilante powers to get rid of them the second we see them because Ophiolite and Pendragon drop in now and again and we have no one to get rid of these spammers, one web link to a product in a post, then that user must be banned.


    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Professor Pendragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Nederland
    Posts
    1,085
    When I notice a spam message I search for all messages of that user and delete them, and I add a post at the moderator's forum to ask for a ban. It's not a very fast process but it used to work well. Problem is that this particular spammer invests a lot of time in making new usernames and continually reposting the same messages. A lazy spammer is easy to fight, but one that invests time in it is a real pain in the ass.

    Is it possible to ban an entire ip address from the forum, or would that give unexpected consequences (like an entire region being unable to connect)?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard i_feel_tiredsleepy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    2,256
    It's possible to ban an ip address, if they have a static ip.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Cardiff, Wales
    Posts
    5,810
    i suppose attracting spammers is an inevitable consequence of being a successful forum - as long as you don't let it raise your blood pressure and the admin team deals with it in the end , that's ok with me

    although, i've always said that a 'REPORT SPAM' button wouldn't go amiss - it would make it far easier for members to alert the admin team + it would relieve some of the frustration for the likes of you, SV
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Iowa City, IA
    Posts
    47
    Ouch I'm a pseudo spammer. Don't hate. But it really is annoying when people join for one post and then run. I get a ton of spam on my site from the "guest post" option, but I'm usually pretty quick to catch them before they go live. Maybe require validation by an admin for someone's first 10 posts? That'd be a pretty good deterrent :P
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,191
    I lost all spammers after I switched to phpbb3 with my forum.

    Haven't had a single one since the switch. Not even on the guest forum.

    I guess this will change in the future when people behind this crap find ways. They always do.

    ps.
    Obviously I meant non-human spammers.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

    - Arnaud Amalric

    http://spuriousforums.com/index.php
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Professor Obviously's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,415
    It could be fun with an counter-attack on the spammers Say that scietific studies say their products are crap. That way they'll leave us alone in fear of doing harm to their product instead of selling it.

    Ah, a long shot I guess...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Professor Pendragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Nederland
    Posts
    1,085
    I agree that we need some more tools to fight these spammers. Having some kind of check on the first 10 messages could work, although we'd have to find a way to make sure it's not too much work for us poor mods/admins :wink: And when for example during vacation all mods are off then it shouldnt mean that the forum is closed for new members

    IP bans and a spam warning button seem good ideas as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by h2so4hurts
    Ouch I'm a pseudo spammer. Don't hate.
    You post quality articles, and as long as you do it in the right way (right section, short introduction) it's certainly welcome.

    For those who want to bite back, have fun
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Cardiff, Wales
    Posts
    5,810
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    I agree that we need some more tools to fight these spammers. Having some kind of check on the first 10 messages could work, although we'd have to find a way to make sure it's not too much work for us poor mods/admins :wink: And when for example during vacation all mods are off then it shouldnt mean that the forum is closed for new members
    i've noticed that many spam attempts place the same message in several parts of the forum, so that might be one way to try and recognise them

    i'm well aware that the occasional double-poster might be caught using this approach, even his/her intentions are innocent
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Iowa City, IA
    Posts
    47
    Or better yet, make it so that people have to apply to be able to post links.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,231
    This guy is out of control! We need an IP ban!
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Professor Pendragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Nederland
    Posts
    1,085
    Still no ban.. A mere moderator can't ban people, he can only move/delete/edit posts. So we can only wait for the admins to do it and in the meantime we mop up the trash. 81 spam posts so far in just over a week, these spammers are obsessive..

    I even mailed the owner of their website to see if it could just be one berserk employee acting on his own against the interest of the company. But no respons after 4 days.

    It's a bit unconventional but perhaps a good way to let off some steam: spam them back :P

    Here are their email addresses:
    nikebrandcn@yahoo.com.cn
    my07trader@yahoo.com
    nikeshoesdeal@live.cn
    dealshoes1@hotmail.com

    Most or all of them are the official addresses of a webshop, so any spam they recieve there would end up in the same account as where they recieve orders from clients. Don't forget to make a special email address for it that can't be traced back to you :wink:
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,231
    Don't forget to make a special email address for it that can't be traced back to you
    Yes, very important! :-D
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Forum Professor Obviously's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,415
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Don't forget to make a special email address for it that can't be traced back to you
    Yes, very important! :-D
    How about making an email address which everyone on the forum can use as one? Bad idea perhaps?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Professor Pendragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Nederland
    Posts
    1,085
    Quote Originally Posted by Obviously
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Don't forget to make a special email address for it that can't be traced back to you
    Yes, very important! :-D
    How about making an email address which everyone on the forum can use as one? Bad idea perhaps?
    we_hate_shoes@hotmail.com

    Password: spamspam

    Registered on the name "Ye olde shoe eaters".

    I've donated 10 spammails to our shoe friends, anyone else feeling generous?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Forum Professor Pendragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Nederland
    Posts
    1,085
    Hehe this is cool, one of their websites (www.favorgoods.com) has a tool which allows you to pose questions realtime to their service department. So I had a chat with them, maybe our trouble is over.

    Here's an excerpt:

    [17:02] meeboguest423139: hi monica, are you there?
    [17:03] Monica: yes
    [17:03] Monica: can i hep u?
    [17:03] meeboguest423139: hi, I have a question about your website.
    [17:04] Monica: ok,
    [17:04] Monica: please let me know please
    [17:04] meeboguest423139: did you know that someone is posting spam messages on internet forums with links to your website in them? they are really bad for the reputation of your company. I can show you an example of such a message
    [17:05] Monica: what site is that ?
    [17:05] Monica: let me know, we will remove that messages soon
    [17:05] Monica: right away
    [17:05] Monica: thanks
    [17:06] meeboguest423139: the website is www.thescienceforum.com, here is an example: http://www.thescienceforum.com/www.F...and-11353t.php
    [17:09] Monica: ok, got that
    [17:09] meeboguest423139: tnx, I will let you know if the spam continues
    [17:10] Monica: ok

    So let's call off our spam attacks on www.favorgoods.com and see if they deal with it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,231
    TentativeHurray! Good stuff!
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Forum Masters Degree bit4bit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    621
    Damn, this spammer is persistant. Has an IP ban been tried yet? Insanity was on here the other day. he made a post in the trash can.
    Chance favours the prepared mind.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    Forum Sophomore Cuntinuum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    101
    Hah, dang Pendragon, you actually got somewhere with spammers. You're probably the first person ever to do that on the internet.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Cardiff, Wales
    Posts
    5,810
    unfortunately, it would appear that our spammer is still with us
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    Forum Professor Pendragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Nederland
    Posts
    1,085
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuntinuum
    Hah, dang Pendragon, you actually got somewhere with spammers. You're probably the first person ever to do that on the internet.
    Yea it almost seems impossible :wink: Well most spammers don't give as much info as these ones, we could even have contacted them through msn if we wanted to.

    All their present accounts are now banned. They may try it again with a new account, so we'll keep a close eye on it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #22  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    39
    Just moderate certain topics
    And i know theirs a plugin to stop allowing free emails

    Bye Spammers
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #23  
    Forum Masters Degree bit4bit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    621
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    All their present accounts are now banned. They may try it again with a new account, so we'll keep a close eye on it.
    Looks like they're back again....With a vengeance!!

    Did you just ban their accounts or the IP? Insanity needs to give them an IP ban.
    Chance favours the prepared mind.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  25. #24  
    Forum Sophomore Cuntinuum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    101
    Oh my god hahahahahaha. I realized what happened now.

    Pendragon, do you see it?

    When talking on live chat you gave them the web addy, now they're adding it to all their databases. Hahahhaa it's only getting worse now.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  26. #25  
    Forum Professor Pendragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Nederland
    Posts
    1,085
    Yea they're back..

    Bit4Bit, I can't answer your question, an admin will have to do that.

    Continuum: well it clearly didn't help, but I don't see how it could've gotten worse. They already knew our forum and clearly they already knew what they advertisement looked like, so they haven't gained new info. And the latest spam is not from favorgoods, it's from a different forum.

    I've added them to an msn account to see if I can reach any of them that way.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  27. #26  
    Forum Professor Pendragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Nederland
    Posts
    1,085
    Had a chat with one of them, not sure if it will lead anywhere.

    New Customer zegt:
    so do you know about these messages?
    www.nike-brand.com zegt:
    sorry I do not know
    New Customer zegt:
    ok, can you try to find out who posts them everywhere? it must be someone related to your company, people don't do this just for fun
    New Customer zegt:
    our forum members are quite angry, and they think your website is responsable for it. so it's in your interest to solve this
    www.nike-brand.com zegt:
    ok
    www.nike-brand.com zegt:
    Sorry, I will solve the
    New Customer zegt:
    thanks
    www.nike-brand.com zegt:
    np
    Reply With Quote  
     

  28. #27  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Cardiff, Wales
    Posts
    5,810
    can you block on words in the post ? if so, a combination of "nike" and "jordan" should do the trick
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  29. #28  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,699
    I've been working with the moderators to try and put and end to this. We are also looking in to upgrading to phpbb 3.0

    http://beta.thescienceforum.com

    The theme is not transfered over yet...and the content is just a copy, so if you post to it you'll just be talking to mainly yourself

    Will take a bit longer to get the theme, or a new theme working as I would like. This is kind of hush hush for now as it's not really a truly working site.

    Again note the post do not come over to this site.

    IS
    Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name
    Reply With Quote  
     

  30. #29  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    That beta site looks rad!
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  31. #30  
    Forum Masters Degree bit4bit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    621
    It looks really good. Are you saying that the archive of posts on this forum will be lost when you change to phpbb 3.0? And LaTeX is definately supported isn't it? Also I do think the theme could be improved upon a bit. Can I suggest a darker background?
    Chance favours the prepared mind.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  32. #31  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    Quote Originally Posted by bit4bit
    Can I suggest a darker background?
    No its fine, leave it.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  33. #32  
    Forum Masters Degree bit4bit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    621
    I don't mean the background colour of all the 'window' panels, just the main background, like this forum has (in dark blue).

    Maybe not black, but a nice dark green, gray or blue would look nice I think. What d'ya reckon? No?

    (Insanity: I hope you don't think I'm grumbling....just some suggestions )
    Chance favours the prepared mind.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  34. #33  
    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,546
    Ah now I see. Yeah, something a little darker than white would be nice .
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
    Reply With Quote  
     

  35. #34  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,795
    This is from another forum that is having spam problems:
    phpBB is a popular software in use on thousands of web sites which makes it an attractive target for spammers. Compounding this issue is most phpBB users <snip> implement the software in it's 'default' mode.

    This means spammers can write a single software to attack thousands of web sites. You'll never win the battle trying to fight those fools with manual review of account applications.

    Spend some of that time to integrate a solid CAPTCHA software or service. They work. And a good service will update as the spammers get smarter.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  36. #35  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Cardiff, Wales
    Posts
    5,810
    Philosophorum uses Simple Machines Forum software, and i still have to see the first spam message, so i've never had the pleasure of annihilating them and their originators

    on the other hand we're not in the same league as the Science Forum post- and member-wise
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  37. #36  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,699
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Spend some of that time to integrate a solid CAPTCHA software or service.
    This is actually one thing I had foresight on almost a year ago and we have not been using the stock CAPTCHA for sign up since then. The spammers we are getting are actually doing the sign up by hand, many other forums are having problems with automated bots that read the CAPTCHA and create accounts all on their own. phpbb 3 uses a newer CAPTCHA to help prevent the bots, this forum uses a non stock one but phpbb 3 might have a better one.

    Can I say CAPTCHA just one more time for fun.... thanks
    Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name
    Reply With Quote  
     

  38. #37  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Cardiff, Wales
    Posts
    5,810
    CAPTCHA CAPTCHA CAPTCHA CAPTCHA

    was that enough fun for today ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  39. #38  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,191
    Honestly, upgrade to phpbb3. I hadn't had a single spammer since I did. Not even in the guest shoutbox forum.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

    - Arnaud Amalric

    http://spuriousforums.com/index.php
    Reply With Quote  
     

  40. #39  
    Forum Sophomore Cuntinuum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    101
    Is there any alternatives to LaTex? I think it was called tex or something, I remember it was easier to use.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  41. #40  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,699
    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    Honestly, upgrade to phpbb3. I hadn't had a single spammer since I did. Not even in the guest shoutbox forum.
    Well ya, that's because of the difference in the CAPTCHA

    There I got to say it again.

    You have to understand that this forum has been very much hacked up from the stock phpbb2 software. The CAPTCHA being used is not the stock one and has killed off most (if not all) of the robo spammers.

    It's the night of a thousand CAPTCHA's
    Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name
    Reply With Quote  
     

  42. #41  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,795
    This last round of spam ticked me off. Anti-spam usually consists of CAPTCHAs (CAPTCHA CAPTCHA CAPTCHA) spam filters and such. To me that seems like the internet version of putting locks on your door, then cowering inside hoping the burglars can't break in.

    I want to do the internet version of sitting on the porch with a shotgun, and giving them a load of rock salt in the ass when they try to break in. What would that be?

    I spent a little time yesterday at the sneaker site, tying up their product search engine searching for keywords like "Die spammers die" and "I want a pair of shoes that would be good for kicking spammers in the ass."

    I'm sure that had no effect, but what if thousands of people did the same thing. I wonder if I could program my computer to exercise their search engine all night while I sleep.

    They have a telephone number listed. I wonder if I could do like the telemarketers and have an automatic phone dialer to keep dialing the numbers of spammers, then leaving a recorded message.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  43. #42  
    Forum Professor serpicojr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    JRZ
    Posts
    1,069
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuntinuum
    Is there any alternatives to LaTex? I think it was called tex or something, I remember it was easier to use.
    LaTeX is more accessible than TeX. What do you have against LaTeX? It's the standard, and everyone I know who uses it loves it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  44. #43  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,699
    I'm actually looking in to getting Latex on this forum as the beta site is going to take me a while to get 100% up and running. Got to give the people what they want, well mostly
    Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name
    Reply With Quote  
     

  45. #44  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,699
    FYI also, I have a query I now can run that removes all the shoe spam in about 1 second from all the forums. I may end up placing this on a schedule to automatically remove the shoe spam constantly.
    Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name
    Reply With Quote  
     

  46. #45  
    Forum Professor serpicojr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    JRZ
    Posts
    1,069
    But what if I want to make a post about my new Air Jordans?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  47. #46  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,699
    What would you like, shoe spam or to be able to make a post about Air Jordans ?

    Quote Originally Posted by serpicojr
    But what if I want to make a post about my new Air Jordans?
    Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name
    Reply With Quote  
     

  48. #47  
    Forum Professor serpicojr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    JRZ
    Posts
    1,069
    Dude, you ain't seen my Air Jordans.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  49. #48  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    956
    Quote Originally Posted by serpicojr
    LaTeX is more accessible than TeX. What do you have against LaTeX? It's the standard, and everyone I know who uses it loves it.
    Count me in!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  50. #49  
    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Wherever I go, there I am
    Posts
    935
    Some thoughts:

    I vote for none other than LaTeX.

    I like the vigilante justice concept of the "I_hate_shoes" email account.

    My favorite shoes are the "Hush Puppies Commute" (chestnut color). So don't try to sell me anything else.

    Cheers
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
    Reply With Quote  
     

  51. #50  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    I live in Bertrand Russells teapot!
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by william



    My favorite shoes are the "Hush Puppies Commute" (chestnut color)

    Bring back Winkle Pickers!

    Ouch....there goes my back again
    Reply With Quote  
     

  52. #51  
    Forum Sophomore Kenny Klassen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Grand Forks British Columbia
    Posts
    109
    Yeah, this could not possibly be more the wrong place I don't think anyone here who is interested in buying the stuff they advertise has any money to waste
    sorry I was gone so long, there are just to many undereducated people here I did not want to add to the problem but I am going to anyway
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •