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Thread: What if............................

  1. #1 What if............................ 
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    Hi, here are 3 provocative scenarios that might bring a degree of chaos to the world or do nothing at all. Please feel free to answer all or any of them:

    1. What would the public reaction be if one day humanity developed an AI equal to that of human level? Panic, or no reaction?

    2. What would the world be like if almost everyone knew about the technological singularity coming in a few decades? Basically, if singularitarians went mainstream for some reason, and even the 'less intelligent' people of society started to learn what it was, what would happen?

    3. What would happen if people gradually migrated into their own virtual realities(own dream worlds) and started spending more and more time in their tangible fantasies? What happens to family and relationships? Would there be a schism between people who believe this is 'not ethical' and those who do?

    Scenarios 1 and 3 of course might not happen, but let's just assume that it is possible(always good to take once step in precaution). Let's not make this a debate about feasibility and try to discuss the consequences themselves.

    And in Scenario 2, whether the people actually do think the singularity will happen or not is irrelevant. Just assume that they have heard about the prediction itself.


    :-D


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  3. #2  
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    2. Apparently I'm among the non-englighted ones who don't know what singularity is :P

    3. This is already happening. I know people who are wasting their chance to complete a study at the university because they're too busy playing world of warcraft.. Just a few weeks ago I did a group project, one of my colleagues was a WoW addict. He rarely showed up at meetings and eventually he failed to do his part of the assignment (without even telling us about it, he just dropped out). Later I heard he failed about 60% of the courses he enrolled in, while my study (Human Geography) really isn't that hard if you stick with the easiest courses (as he does). So here's a 22-24 year old guy who has the chance to get a great career and a good salary, but wastes it because of a computer game.. My guess: computer addicts will become a bigger problem in the near future than drug addicts, at least in terms of lost economic potential.


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  4. #3  
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    The singularity will occur when we create a machine intelligent enough to create machines even more intelligent than itself. Supposedly, after this point the technological development is unpredictable for a pre-singularity society.
    ...Wait, what?
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  5. #4  
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    Being of supreme intelligence I will tell you what the people will do in all
    scenarios:

    Some will start a blog about it

    Some will read about in the news while eating cornflakes, then turn to page 3 (nude glamour pic)

    Some will think of way to make money out of any fear mongering

    On the whole though

    Life will go on regardless, it always has and always will.
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    My guess: computer addicts will become a bigger problem in the near future than drug addicts, at least in terms of lost economic potential.
    Do video games come with a health warning?
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  7. #6  
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    I don't think we will see a 'technological singularity' in the next few decades. If such a thing does happen, I think it will be a very long time away. For the mean time, we have plenty of fresh science and engineering problems to be overcome. For number 3.) This is already the case in some people, as someone else said.
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    1) I for one welcome our new robot overlords.

    2) See 1).

    3) This has always been an interesting philosophical quandary for me (and many others before me I can be sure). Assuming that your dream-state is as structured as reality, what's the difference? This obviously doesn't apply to World of Warcraft, but let us say that science has provided for us a tube that a person can lay in, and enter an inactive neurological state in which your mind interfaces with a virtual world. For arguments sake, if this world could be sustained forever, and the person's basic biological necessities were not an issue, 'reality' is just the sum of stimulus to your brain. To you in your virtual world, the people you meet and the things you experience are 'real'. The only limiting factor would be how authentic of a 'dream state' the computer could provide to you. Having your mind immersed in a low-polygon WoW-esque world is obviously not as authentic as a Star-Trek Holodeck type fantasy.

    This does, however, bring up the economic and biological issue once we take a step back from a perfect hypothetical situation. Lacking some sort of cyber-brain technology where one could shed his mortal body, human beings have a certain amount of necessity to sustain life: those that escape reality rely on the rest of society to sustain them. I dread the day I see Cyber Social Security for VR addicts.

    To step back to 1) and 2) again, I don't see human-intelligence machines being too far off. I believe we could probably create one with the technology we have today; what's really preventing this is our limited applicable knowledge of how human intelligence and memory works. I myself have an integrated language construct I've been coding for several years, and my biggest hurdle was not lacking processing power or storage space, but my understanding of the thought process. I certainly don't claim to be the authority on virtual psychology, but I still have many unanswered questions after years of exhaustive research. I can only hope theres a crack-team of super-genius psychologist-computer-scientists working hard on creating my robot wife
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    My guess: computer addicts will become a bigger problem in the near future than drug addicts, at least in terms of lost economic potential.
    Do video games come with a health warning?
    There's usually a health warning for epilepsy, and maybe for RSI nowadays. But not for addiction as far as I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchi
    1) I for one welcome our new robot overlords.

    2) See 1).

    3) [..]

    This does, however, bring up the economic and biological issue once we take a step back from a perfect hypothetical situation. Lacking some sort of cyber-brain technology where one could shed his mortal body, human beings have a certain amount of necessity to sustain life: those that escape reality rely on the rest of society to sustain them. I dread the day I see Cyber Social Security for VR addicts.
    Or the day we see cyber beggars..

    The strange thing is that role playing games like WoW (if that's the closest thing to a VR dreamworld that we have today) are actually very boring, and yet people are already willing to pour hundreds of hours of their time into them. I'll just admit that I've played a trial version of WoW for about 3 days in a rainy weekend, nobody is perfect :P Most of the time people are just waiting or doing repetitive tasks. Like clicking on a 'gold mine' ("mining") for 10 minutes until finally their digital piece of gold comes out, and then repeating ten times so they can buy their digital sword or so. Apparently it's so boring that some clever kids are now outsourcing it to China..

    My point is that even a boring, low-poligon dreamworld can already make millions of people invest many hundreds of hours of their time into it. So when a real VR dreamworld as you described is created people will probably queue for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchi
    I can only hope theres a crack-team of super-genius psychologist-computer-scientists working hard on creating my robot wife
    But why would your robowife need super-genius brain capacity and linguistic ability? Isn't it enough if she can cook and clean and nod 'yes' when you speak to her?
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  10. #9  
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    Infinitism have you seen The Matrix? This thread is bordering on those ideas. I more-a-less agree with what Pendragon said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    2. Apparently I'm among the non-englighted ones who don't know what singularity is :P

    3. This is already happening. I know people who are wasting their chance to complete a study at the university because they're too busy playing world of warcraft.. Just a few weeks ago I did a group project, one of my colleagues was a WoW addict. He rarely showed up at meetings and eventually he failed to do his part of the assignment (without even telling us about it, he just dropped out). Later I heard he failed about 60% of the courses he enrolled in, while my study (Human Geography) really isn't that hard if you stick with the easiest courses (as he does). So here's a 22-24 year old guy who has the chance to get a great career and a good salary, but wastes it because of a computer game.. My guess: computer addicts will become a bigger problem in the near future than drug addicts, at least in terms of lost economic potential.
    I agree. Computer games are threatening the intelligence of our species.

    My son is a WoW fan, and he happily cooperates whenever i restrict him and ban it (which is often!) because he knows how easy he could become addicted to it.

    Now he has to earn time on the computer which is restricted to no more than 45 mins a day.

    If i didn't do this i know i would lose him to this bladdy game.
    Lots of parents aren't bothered because it keeps them quiet and out of apparent trouble.
    Yet ironically these games are trouble!

    As for the rest of the threats. I think it's rubbish! Sci-fi fantasy
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by bit4bit
    I don't think we will see a 'technological singularity' in the next few decades. If such a thing does happen, I think it will be a very long time away.
    Actually, it's probably not as far as you think. Technology tends to progress in an exponential fashion; the more you learn and implement, the faster you can reach the next level of complexity, and so on. I would not be surprised if we reached singularity in our lifetimes.

    I view video games as any other pleasurable activity - if you lack self control, you can become obsessed with it. The same goes for alcoholism and recreational drug use (not the really highly addictive ones, though, that's a little different). If you can control your usage, I see no problem with the activity itself. The problem is, a lot of people lack the self control.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
    ~Jean-Paul Sartre
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    Basically, I believe that there is going to be a lot of nihilism in the next few decades. Why even try to live a 'perfect' life in this world, when you can have the ability to live in your own?
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  14. #13 Re: What if............................ 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinitism
    1. What would the public reaction be if one day humanity developed an AI equal to that of human level? Panic, or no reaction?
    This issue raises a lot of ethical implications especially for the religious sector of society. If this AI's self-consciousness becomes equal to that of a human being, it could re-define the identity of humanity in general. What differentiates humans from mere animals (as some theorists say) is intelligence. An AI, by itself, is already a "being" because it is self-conscious.

    I would think that, initially, people will panic when an AI exhibits intelligence equal to a human beings or more possibly even greater. I personally would say YES to AI development because (again) it would re-define the identity of humanity. I believe that after some time, there would no longer be any distinction as to whether a BEING is AI or HUMAN but rather an evolution of Humanity in general. That is to say, if such a distinction disappears and a fusion (so to speak) of the AI and the Human beings. I believe that the brain-computer interface and cyberkinetics would result to this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Infinitism
    2. What would the world be like if almost everyone knew about the technological singularity coming in a few decades? Basically, if singularitarians went mainstream for some reason, and even the 'less intelligent' people of society started to learn what it was, what would happen?
    I like to think of the singlularity of humanity somewhat similar to a supercomputer. *cough*
    I also like to think that all problems stem from various root causes in which lack of communication is one. If everyone's thought are singular, there wouldn't be any more conflicts whether socially or politically. It's because everyone's thought would be the same. Just imagine, billions of brain power utilized to its full extent and solving all sorts of problems whether in the medical field or whatever. But then again, singularity has no room for individuality. It would no longer be you, me, him, or her but rather US. But personally, if this is defined as human evolution, I would say YES! This society would actually be utopian in the sense of singularity of thought, action, and status.

    Most people would probably not want this singluar society and may not even be possible if left on the hands of humans themselves though.. Human nature has already proven that through history. But then again, if humanity's future were to be left on the hands of an AI, I don't think people would be happy about that. Hence the many critics to cyberkinetics..


    Quote Originally Posted by Infinitism
    3. What would happen if people gradually migrated into their own virtual realities(own dream worlds) and started spending more and more time in their tangible fantasies? What happens to family and relationships? Would there be a schism between people who believe this is 'not ethical' and those who do?
    Social face-to-face interaction is important to both cognitive and social development of a person. I agree with what the others posted above. This sort of "retreat" from reality and into a virtual world is very much prevalent and I myself have once been obsessed with an online RPG. I once become obsessed because, within a virtual world I could do anything I wanted-- things that I couldn't do in reality and it actually made me happy. I was quite crushed when I got hacked though...

    Again, face-to-face interactions are important but this notion is based on the fact that we still (and yes, I'm using the term "still") living in a physical world and social activities are part of our daily lives. But looking at the future, I believe that somehow, a certain breakthrough in technology that will result in humanity's interconnectedness will address face-to-face interactions with little relevance. It's inevitable..
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  15. #14  
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    In a way, it's alarming to see the number of people who automatically shoot down the concept of transhumanism especially when they first hear of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    But why would your robowife need super-genius brain capacity and linguistic ability? Isn't it enough if she can cook and clean and nod 'yes' when you speak to her?
    GASP (shapt intake of breath)...........FACE REDDENS....

    .........exhale......

    I didn't realise you had such an arid sense of humour Pendragon

    What would a 'robo-husbands' functions require i wonder?.............?...... ......mmm......... ......?.................let's see now.........................?.............................?.... ................?.........................
    .....
    AAAAAH!!!

    We already have them!

    They're called 'Vibrators!'

    :-D
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    But why would your robowife need super-genius brain capacity and linguistic ability? Isn't it enough if she can cook and clean and nod 'yes' when you speak to her?
    [..]

    What would a 'robo-husbands' functions require i wonder? [..]

    We already have them!

    They're called 'Vibrators!'

    :-D
    A vibrator can't listen to trivial problems, clean up his mess, fix the computer, pretend to amuse himself at a boring party where his wife is only showing him off as a trophy to her girlfriends, etc. So we're released from these duties? Great :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    A vibrator can't listen to trivial problems,
    Oh yes it can, and with the advantage of not looking bored!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    clean up his mess,
    What mess? There wouldn't be any. We'd have nice clean homes without smelly socks and pants peppering the floor!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    fix the computer,
    Women are perfectly capable of doing that themselves

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    pretend to amuse himself at a boring party where his wife is only showing him off as a trophy to her girlfriends,
    A vibrator never gets bored and would keep the party buzzing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    etc.
    There's more?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    So we're released from these duties?
    Yes, you can all go and sit in your sheds and read your patriarchal bibles
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    A vibrator can't listen to trivial problems,
    Oh yes it can, and with the advantage of not looking bored!
    So you have meaningful conversations with your vibrator?
    Chance favours the prepared mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bit4bit
    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon
    A vibrator can't listen to trivial problems,
    Oh yes it can, and with the advantage of not looking bored!
    So you have meaningful conversations with your vibrator?
    Err..no silly,

    I have meaningful conversations with my friends.

    Vibrators are for one thing and one thing only
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Yes, you can all go and sit in your sheds and read your patriarchal bibles
    No, we can play video games and watch TV :P IN THE HOUSE ahahahahaha!
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Yes, you can all go and sit in your sheds and read your patriarchal bibles
    No, we can play video games and watch TV :P IN THE HOUSE ahahahahaha!
    NO you are not allowed in the house (shedding your hairs, skin flakes, pants and socks everywhere! yeuck!)

    Men should be kept in kennel like structures in the garden on a leash, and should only be allowed in the house if they have been good and if the mistress wants something to pet or amuse herself with.

    You know it makes sense
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  23. #22  
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    Oh this is good. Now I know how to set selene off on a raging tangent (not that I didn't know this before ). Sexism to the rescue!
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  24. #23  
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    I'd start about women but I'd never finish the list. The biggest one?

    Nagging.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuntinuum
    Oh this is good. Now I know how to set selene off on a raging tangent (not that I didn't know this before ). Sexism to the rescue!
    Yeah and they say men are sexist :P
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuntinuum
    Oh this is good. Now I know how to set selene off on a raging tangent (not that I didn't know this before ). Sexism to the rescue!
    I'm not raging

    I'm smiling sweetly
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    I'd start about women but I'd never finish the list. The biggest one?

    Nagging.
    If men did as they were told in the first place and admit that women are always right, then we wouldn't have to NAG!

    It seems you are all vulnerable to sexism, when your wagging tails are playfully pulled you all woof!

    Get back in your kennels you naughty doggies!
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  28. #27  
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    Regardless about how you feel about this, your thread derailment is still raging. And you can't fool me silly Selene, you got offended so your firing back. :P
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  29. #28  
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    I'm not a dog, I'm a Dragon :-D.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuntinuum
    Regardless about how you feel about this, your thread derailment is still raging. And you can't fool me silly Selene, you got offended so your firing back. :P


    When i throw the ball, how come you keep running to fetch it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    I'm not a dog, I'm a Dragon :-D.
    Swillmer, you can be whatever your mind can imagine.
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  32. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuntinuum
    Regardless about how you feel about this, your thread derailment is still raging. And you can't fool me silly Selene, you got offended so your firing back. :P


    When i throw the ball, how come you keep running to fetch it?
    Because you threw it, therefore you want it to come back to you, in an attempt to get us to come close to you.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuntinuum
    Regardless about how you feel about this, your thread derailment is still raging. And you can't fool me silly Selene, you got offended so your firing back. :P


    When i throw the ball, how come you keep running to fetch it?
    Because you threw it, therefore you want it to come back to you, in an attempt to get us to come close to you.
    Ah now you are getting closer!

    A bit of psychology and analysis....i like it!

    I remember at infants school once when a boy in my class came up and punched me in the face and made me cry.......and then the next day he sent his friend over to me in the playground to ask me if i would be his girlfriend......i told him to f**k off of course, which made him pursue me even more, he became a real pain in the ass and even told me he fancied me even more when i got angry!

    Since then i have discovered how men like to play games.
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    Its a shame that men don't realise that though. They play games but don't realise they are and wonder why women are being hard to get. Oh good job I've learned that early in life. Thanks God.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuntinuum
    Regardless about how you feel about this, your thread derailment is still raging. And you can't fool me silly Selene, you got offended so your firing back. :P


    When i throw the ball, how come you keep running to fetch it?
    Fetch what? I haven't fallen for it yet, busy heckling from a distance for now.
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  36. #35  
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    Best to give em what they want. That way, you know that you are in control :-D.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Trolling is my expertise, Selene will be crushed if she wants to dance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuntinuum
    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuntinuum
    Regardless about how you feel about this, your thread derailment is still raging. And you can't fool me silly Selene, you got offended so your firing back. :P


    When i throw the ball, how come you keep running to fetch it?
    Fetch what? I haven't fallen for it yet, busy heckling from a distance for now.
    Yeah right!

    Like preparing bait on another thread to catch Trout when you should be fishing for Salmon?

    You're really good at this game Cuntinuum :wink:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuntinuum
    Trolling is my expertise, Selene will be crushed if she wants to dance.
    Dance?

    With you?

    I don't want anyone calling the paramedics because they think you are having a fit!

    I've got my street cred' to keep up you know!!
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  40. #39  
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    You have creditability? With this massive shit your taking all over the place around this lot, I'm believing you. Minxy the last username you used here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuntinuum
    You have creditability? With this massive shit your taking all over the place around this lot, I'm believing you. Minxy the last username you used here?
    Come here and give me a hug before i get back to work, it sounds like you need one.

    P.s this bit doesn't make any sense??:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuntinuum
    With this massive shit your taking all over the place around this lot,
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  42. #41  
    Forum Sophomore Cuntinuum's Avatar
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    What doesn't make sense?
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  43. #42  
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    Aren't you a teacher? Don't let your personal life interfere with your teaching if your about to go back!
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  44. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    Aren't you a teacher? Don't let your personal life interfere with your teaching if your about to go back!
    The sentence i quoted Quntinuum! Je ne comprends pas!

    No i am not a teacher Svwillmer. Where did you get that one from!? I might be when i got my degree, but then i might do a PHD

    I'm studying (and a freelance artist, caricatures are my specialty so don't ever show me your faces -glad i spelled that right!) as practically everyone else is on here!

    Well i am off......good to chat/argue/debate?

    Hope i haven't annoyed you too much and we can do it again soon
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  45. #44  
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    I don't speak spanish Selene. You'll have to be clearer.
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  46. #45  
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    She's bascially saying:

    I do not understand.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuntinuum
    I don't speak spanish Selene. You'll have to be clearer.
    FRENCH!!

    It means 'I do not understand!'

    Mon dieu!
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  48. #47  
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    Same thing. Now, what do you not understand?
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  49. #48  
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    Don't blaspheme.

    Получите, что назад работать и зарабатывать ваш хлеб.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  50. #49  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuntinuum
    Same thing. Now, what do you not understand?
    You mon amis

    au revoir x
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  51. #50  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene
    Quote Originally Posted by Cuntinuum
    Same thing. Now, what do you not understand?
    You mon amis

    au revoir x
    "You my friends"

    "Goodbye"
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  52. #51  
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    Okay. I guess this is done with then.
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  53. #52  
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    For now....
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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