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Thread: James Randi Challange

  1. #1 James Randi Challange 
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    I am looking for help , or contacts who are willing to assist me helping this person a ) I previously mentioned in the health section.

    In short although it may sound like tall task this person whis usually very private about his life has decided it is time to take different approach in order to tackle this - one of exposure.

    As result of this he thought about putting his money where his mouth was so to speak as means to vindicate himself of these symptoms which defie medical knowledge.

    Therefore I am asking here on his behalf to see what resources are available for him to best test this problem he belives has occurred.

    In short he is prepared under the most stringent tests to verify and, if need be ,expose himself to the media in order to prove his symptoms .

    He could go private as he does have some capital ( not much ) but at this time we are not entirely sure which sort of test or testing would best verify his claims and where he could get this done at the least , most economical expense to himself .

    The idea of trying to find organisations to back him up on this has not been attempted and we feel , given the lack of interest in such isolated but unique case , this is probably unlikely to change.

    If any one has any suggestions or ideas about this I would be interested to hear your feedback.

    The problem itself which I have not mentioned before in short affects his cranium .

    He had ncr ( neuro cranial reconstruction ) www.ncrdoctors.com which went badly wrong in 2002 and has since caused a catalogue of symptoms , some of which Ive outlined.

    Most notably however he express instability in the skull in the same way as he used experince previously in his lower joint before this happened.

    What I am trying to find first of all is some form of testing , such as Dynamic Mri , that might be able to evaluate this - hence my question in the experimenation section.

    The Jame Randi Challange requires documented proof of any paranormal claim and as he feels these symptoms he experince fits this description i.e. medicine does not believe cranial bone movement exists
    then he feels this or any " fair " testing would help validate this claim given NCR and other movements like Cranial Sacral Therapy think otherwise.

    Person a ) suffice to say is eager to prove to any one in the medical field anywhere regarding this claim, but as previously state has found no candidates yet - anywhere

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    Why did your 'friend' have this treatment

    1. What 'symptoms' made your friend undergo NCS, that could NOT be treated by conventional therapy?

    2. What are the symptoms post NCS?


    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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    uH OH. Shes back.

    We've missed you, especially Jeremey.

    Please try to add something useful to a debate or discussion otherwise you may find some of your posts deleted see rules 4(b) & 4(e)
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    uH OH. Shes back.

    We've missed you, especially Jeremey.

    Please try to add something useful to a debate or discussion otherwise you may find some of your posts deleted see rules 4(b) & 4(e)
    you just broke those rules with your inane reply.
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    uH OH. Shes back.

    We've missed you, especially Jeremey.

    Please try to add something useful to a debate or discussion otherwise you may find some of your posts deleted see rules 4(b) & 4(e)
    Before I give any response may I ask

    a) Who you are referring to ?

    b) What is useful in scientific terms about discussing your favourite video games ?

    Please dont take this the wrong way but this is a serious thread, if you have reason to think otherwise and are willing to contenst it you better also have some good evidence , esp in relation to question b )
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Why did your 'friend' have this treatment

    1. What 'symptoms' made your friend undergo NCS, that could NOT be treated by conventional therapy?

    2. What are the symptoms post NCS?
    I dont have time right now to detail everything as I suffer bad arthritis in the hands and difficulty writing.

    I am not ignoring your questions though and will reply.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33
    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Why did your 'friend' have this treatment

    1. What 'symptoms' made your friend undergo NCS, that could NOT be treated by conventional therapy?

    2. What are the symptoms post NCS?
    I dont have time right now to detail everything as I suffer bad arthritis in the hands and difficulty writing.

    I am not ignoring your questions though and will reply.
    I sympathise, I had RSS a while back, made typing very difficult. Take your time. Meanwhile SV was referring to me, ignore him.
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    uH OH. Shes back.

    We've missed you, especially Jeremey.

    Please try to add something useful to a debate or discussion otherwise you may find some of your posts deleted see rules 4(b) & 4(e)
    you just broke those rules with your inane reply.
    Rithe in my cage of torment my friend. I was only having a laugh.

    The point 33 of asking what your favorite video game is is put in the general discussion topic because it is general discussion. There does not need to be anything scientific about it. Sheesh get a PS2 or something. Or go out more eithers good, then again a Wii would be nice

    Anyway I'm off this is off topic and off my head.

    PS Don't you find it funny I asked where ToR was and all of a sudden next day -POOF! She appears as if by magic
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33

    If any one has suggestions are to where I could re-direct my enquiries by all means do so here and I will respond in like when I can.
    basically,

    the treatment your friend opted for is not mainstream as such that in itself indicates certain characteristics about him,

    perhaps desperately seeking something to alleviate his symptoms, modern medicine failed, turned to this treatment, but despite enthusiasm for it, lacking perhaps at that time judgement to realise it is perhaps not a valid treatment.

    So

    symptoms prior and symptoms after are relevant as I am trying to establish what is different now to how things were before.
    In what way did matters become worse after?

    It is possible, when we try a 'last resort' treatment that does not 'work' things will get worse as there will be an element of feeling better in the run up to treatment , a 'high' that alleviates symptoms temporarily. As such, realising treatment has been ineffective will result in a 'low' a return to the previous state PLUS an added list of symptoms due to the anxiety of failure.

    I am trying to establish cause and effect.

    When looking at any ailment, one must go beyond symptoms and trace back through time to the origin of the problem. What was going on in the life when this problem occurred...that is the cause and in dealing with the cause we can hopefully find a treatment.

    The symptoms were a knock on effect of that event so the cure is also a knock on effect based on what can be done about that 'event'.

    Do you follow me?
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    you are anonymous here and a list of symptoms will not expose an identity?

    I am certain YOU are your friend and you are suferring from some form of paranoia, hence reluctance to disclose this information despite lack of risk.

    I am not enquiring from a writer perspective, I am enquiring from an 'answer to your post' perspective.

    See my reasonning on the board forum.
    Well, If you are that certain what is there left for me to say ?

    Do you usually make an assumption about someone based on a single post ?

    As you can see , as I have posted this back on the thread ,I hope I havent spoiled your theory.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by 33

    If any one has suggestions are to where I could re-direct my enquiries by all means do so here and I will respond in like when I can.
    basically,

    the treatment your friend opted for is not mainstream as such that in itself indicates certain characteristics about him,
    My dear Theory, lets start right there .

    I hope you and everyone else understand that every human has basic characteristic that in omnipresent in all, its called surivial , and that that characteristic itself usually varies depending on how bad the situation is and the persons ability to handle it.

    How bad or good one sees this is entirely relative to them and their own experinces .

    A Fakir can stand in the same position for 4 years if he pleases , your average man or woman would be lucky to last a day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33
    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    you are anonymous here and a list of symptoms will not expose an identity?

    I am certain YOU are your friend and you are suferring from some form of paranoia, hence reluctance to disclose this information despite lack of risk.

    I am not enquiring from a writer perspective, I am enquiring from an 'answer to your post' perspective.

    See my reasonning on the board forum.
    Well, If you are that certain what is there left for me to say ?

    Do you usually make an assumption about someone based on a single post ?

    As you can see , as I have posted this back on the thread ,I hope I havent spoiled your theory.
    You have proven my theory,

    you requested privacy yet as soon as you rec'd a private reply you posted it publically.

    That demonstrates yet more paranoia, lack of comprehension, and deceit.

    I have tried to help you, and you have reacted with hostility.

    I suggest you seek the help of a qualified medical proffessional.

    No one here will reply to you privately now you have without reason published a private pm.
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by 33
    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    you are anonymous here and a list of symptoms will not expose an identity?

    I am certain YOU are your friend and you are suferring from some form of paranoia, hence reluctance to disclose this information despite lack of risk.

    I am not enquiring from a writer perspective, I am enquiring from an 'answer to your post' perspective.

    See my reasonning on the board forum.
    Well, If you are that certain what is there left for me to say ?

    Do you usually make an assumption about someone based on a single post ?

    As you can see , as I have posted this back on the thread ,I hope I havent spoiled your theory.
    You have proven my theory,

    you requested privacy yet as soon as you rec'd a private reply you posted it publically.

    That demonstrates yet more paranoia, lack of comprehension, and deceit.

    I have tried to help you, and you have reacted with hostility.

    I suggest you seek the help of a qualified medical proffessional.

    No one here will reply to you privately now you have without reason published a private pm.
    Are you sure your not self projecting here ?

    For someone who thinks their is no threat in discolsing information you sound quite self pitying about the fact I simply repeated your questions .

    Unless there is some hidden meaning or agenda in those questions you directed at me I cant imagine what use or private information any one else could use or is meant to derive from ithat, can you ?

    I also find it ironic that ,unless Im mistaken , youve taken to colouring your hair red , now is that to hide a few grey hairs ,or assume another identity ?

    Can you please explain how Ive been hostile ?

    I haven't insulted you once and yet within one post you've already made 3 accusations against me and told me where I should go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    uH OH. Shes back.

    We've missed you, especially Jeremey.

    Please try to add something useful to a debate or discussion otherwise you may find some of your posts deleted see rules 4(b) & 4(e)





















































































































































































































































































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    Seems like you're launching a smear campaign, rather than attempting to help/obtain help for anyone.
    "First we build the tools, then they build us" - Marshall McLuhan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TvEye
    Seems like you're launching a smear campaign, rather than attempting to help/obtain help for anyone.
    Really ?

    Would you mind backing that up evidence on number of posts pro / against my attempts to obtain interest ?

    There I was thinking this was general forum too , surely you'll spare some amusement , or do you intend to keep that eye focussed on me until you hit something of interest ?

    Considering you've said nothing to suggest your interest in offering help yourself since Ive laid my case , may I assume your hypocrite ?
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    33, I'm sure your friend is proud of your efforts to help him

    Why not just post the exact particulars of your friends illness instead of just giving clues and getting angry at people trying to figure out what the hell you are talking about
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33
    Considering you've said nothing to suggest your interest in offering help yourself since Ive laid my case , may I assume your hypocrite ?
    Poisoning the well is a logical fallacy where adverse information about someone is pre-emptively presented to an audience, with the intention of discrediting or ridiculing everything that person is about to say. Poisoning the well is a special case of argumentum ad hominem. The term was first used with this sense [1] by John Henry Newman in his Apologia Pro Vita Sua [2].

    This "argument" has the following form:

    1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is presented.
    2. Therefore any claims person A makes will be false.

    I also find it ironic that ,unless Im mistaken , youve taken to colouring your hair red , now is that to hide a few grey hairs ,or assume another identity ?
    Your previous post, before my initial reply, contained nothing but a link to Theoryofrelativity's website. I fail to see how her web page is in any way related to your friend's condition. Prior to that, a post about theoryofrelativity allegedly covering up grey hair and having a hidden agenda. And, right at the beginning of this thread, the comment:

    b) What is useful in scientific terms about discussing your favourite video games ?
    I fail to see the relevance of that comment. There was nothing posted in this thread about video games. You're simply trying to discredit him before he offers any opinion.

    Poisoning the well is a logical fallacy where adverse information about someone is pre-emptively presented to an audience, with the intention of discrediting or ridiculing everything that person is about to say. Poisoning the well is a special case of argumentum ad hominem. The term was first used with this sense [1] by John Henry Newman in his Apologia Pro Vita Sua [2].

    This "argument" has the following form:

    1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is presented.
    2. Therefore any claims person A makes will be false.
    "First we build the tools, then they build us" - Marshall McLuhan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    33, I'm sure your friend is proud of your efforts to help him

    Why not just post the exact particulars of your friends illness instead of just giving clues and getting angry at people trying to figure out what the hell you are talking about
    I am not angry at any one ,I knew when I took this task on with nothing but my words here against the beliefs of others it would be this way, esp on science forum where reason is valued over everything else.

    You can see for yourself what happens when that reason has nothing to go on other than the ideas that fuel it.

    You note that rather than assume the possibility of this ( which is would to me be the only rational choice when one has no evidence ) the people who have responded to this ( apart from you ) have done nothing but form theories that would make Dan Brown proud .

    I actually want to discuss this with people but the trouble is trying to find the genuine ones from the others who just want to use this as some way of flexing their egos.

    Im sure there are folk out there but unfortunately , because of this sort of petty attitude, I risk having my efforts sabotaged by someone who has no interest other than their own - whatever reasons that may be.

    I would be happy to talk to someone over the phone on behalf of this person or try to find some other means of communication other than this because , to be frank , I have better things to do than cater to peoples assumptions.

    If someone geuinely wants to help or has information please pm me , but do not expect me to reveal things here given the example set already by those who apparently are interested in science.


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    Quote Originally Posted by 33

    I also find it ironic that ,unless Im mistaken , youve taken to colouring your hair red , now is that to hide a few grey hairs ,or assume another identity ?

    Can you please explain how Ive been hostile ?

    I haven't insulted you once and yet within one post you've already made 3 accusations against me and told me where I should go.

    you are hostile, the fact you can't see it illustates the problem.

    No one is interested here in who you really are, but you posting on behalf of your 'friend' makes communication awkward, thus if I am in dialogue in pm I will not enter into 'my friend' chat when it is clear there is no 'friend'.

    It is irrelevant now. You'll get no help from me. You are hositle and beyond my armchair psychology ability. Hence my reccomendation of someone more suitably qualified.
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33
    Quote Originally Posted by svwillmer
    uH OH. Shes back.

    We've missed you, especially Jeremey.

    Please try to add something useful to a debate or discussion otherwise you may find some of your posts deleted see rules 4(b) & 4(e)
    Which one ?

    http://www.myspace.com/theoryofr


    thanks for the plug
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33
    Quote Originally Posted by TvEye
    Seems like you're launching a smear campaign, rather than attempting to help/obtain help for anyone.
    Really ?

    Would you mind backing that up evidence on number of posts pro / against my attempts to obtain interest ?

    There I was thinking this was general forum too , surely you'll spare some amusement , or do you intend to keep that eye focussed on me until you hit something of interest ?

    Considering you've said nothing to suggest your interest in offering help yourself since Ive laid my case , may I assume your hypocrite ?
    I rest my case.
    Hostile, abusive and in the wrong place.
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TvEye

    Poisoning the well is a logical fallacy where adverse information about someone is pre-emptively presented to an audience, with the intention of discrediting or ridiculing everything that person is about to say. Poisoning the well is a special case of argumentum ad hominem. The term was first used with this sense [1] by John Henry Newman in his Apologia Pro Vita Sua [2].

    This "argument" has the following form:

    1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is presented.
    2. Therefore any claims person A makes will be false.

    I also find it ironic that ,unless Im mistaken , youve taken to colouring your hair red , now is that to hide a few grey hairs ,or assume another identity ?
    Your previous post, before my initial reply, contained nothing but a link to Theoryofrelativity's website. I fail to see how her web page is in any way related to your friend's condition. Prior to that, a post about theoryofrelativity allegedly covering up grey hair and having a hidden agenda. And, right at the beginning of this thread, the comment:

    b) What is useful in scientific terms about discussing your favourite video games ?
    I fail to see the relevance of that comment. There was nothing posted in this thread about video games. You're simply trying to discredit him before he offers any opinion.

    Poisoning the well is a logical fallacy where adverse information about someone is pre-emptively presented to an audience, with the intention of discrediting or ridiculing everything that person is about to say. Poisoning the well is a special case of argumentum ad hominem. The term was first used with this sense [1] by John Henry Newman in his Apologia Pro Vita Sua [2].

    This "argument" has the following form:

    1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is presented.
    2. Therefore any claims person A makes will be false.
    genius!

    *applauds*
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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  26. #25  
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    " They must find it difficult...
    Those who have taken authority
    as the truth
    Rather than truth as the authority "- G. Massey
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    "A scientist is a person who is an expert in one or more areas of science or someone who uses the scientific method to do research.[1] William Whewell coined the word in 1833.[2] Before that scientists were termed "natural philosophers" or "men of science".

    Scientists can be motivated in several ways. Many have a desire to understand why the world is as we see it and how it came to be. They exhibit a strong curiosity about Nature. Other motivations are recognition by their peers and prestige, or the desire to apply scientific knowledge for the benefit of peoples health, the nations, the world, nature or industries. Only few scientists count generating personal wealth as an important driving force behind their science."

    I think wikipedia need to reconsider their definition of scientists , I have yet to see one who fits any description of having a desire to do anything orther than something they dont think they can already explain, it kind of defeats the point of research doesnt it ?

    I have somone whose attempted to put this theroy to the test to further scientific knowledge about the human body and perhaps improve somones life ( their own in the process ) who is in immense suffering, but no one has in my 3 years of attempted negoations, has validated this desire to help or learn anything.

    Perhaps if I had a million or two to put up for this person we could put that final sentence up for theory .

    What happened to those brave scientists who were brave enough to challange the wild held beleifs of others and get ridiculed for it ?
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  28. #27 Merry Christmas 
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    Some evidence from long line of "hidden" stories that science has been built on..

    http://amasci.com/weird/stmlaf.html
    "When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift
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