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  • Yes

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Thread: ----GUN

  1. #1 ----GUN 
    Forum Junior Kolt's Avatar
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    In lieu of recent events......in lieu of "All" events, I am just curious as to whether or not people here in this forum are for it or against it.

    ....And why?


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  3. #2  
    Forum Sophomore Nanobrain's Avatar
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    I think it may depend on what you mean by 'control'. Control from potential threats? More stricter laws, making it harder to buy a gun, no matter who you are? America already has laws that create a form of gun control.


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  4. #3  
    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
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    The U.S. already has many many guns. The only people that obey the laws are law abiding people. If we put in force gun control, only the people that disobey the laws will have guns. I think it's too late.

    Perhaps in a country where there are few guns it might work, but not in the U.S. It's too late.

    Sure... I don't see a need for the general hunter to own a machine gun, but to ban all guns I don't think is the right thing to do.

    I own a couple guns by the way... a 40-cal. handgun and a .22 rifle. None of my neighbors need worry (unless they enter my house late at night and attempt to harm me...).

    And... although I am too lazy to look for the articles, there have been several incidents where someone with a gun has prevented crimes/harm/etc. If you really want to find the articles, they should be on the internet somewhere... I'm too lazy at the moment to find them.

    Cheers
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
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  5. #4  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    the following was reported in New Scientist of 28th of April 2007 :

    Events in Australia, meanwhile, illustrate the power of gun control. In 1996, after a gunman in Tasmania killed 35 people, semi-automatic rifles and pump-action shotguns were banned. (Access to semi-automatic handguns was already controlled.) Since then, gun deaths have dropped, and most striking are the figures for mass shootings. In the 18 years prior to 1996, there were 13; in the past decade, none (Injury Prevention, vol 12, p 365).

    whatever the excuse may be about criminals and guns, the people doing these things usually have no criminal record and are not known to the law

    imo it takes a lot more guts to kill someone with any other instrument than with a gun
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  6. #5  
    Ron
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    This is a tough one. But IMO, guns should be completely banned. I KNOW, I KNOW... "If guns are outlawed then only outlaws will have guns." But how many incidents have there been where a law abiding citizen actually thwarted an intruder in his house because he had a gun? Relatively few I suspect. On the other hand, how many injuries/deaths occur due to domestic violence, suicide, or accidents? I think the latter is much more prevalent.

    It simply comes down to less guns = less opportunity for a shooting to occur. I personally knew 2 people who died via gunshot - one accidental and one suicide. It's really sad.

    Ron
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  7. #6  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by william
    (unless they enter my house late at night and attempt to harm me...).
    Or if they enter your house late at might by accident, and you think they intend to harm you.
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  8. #7  
    Cooking Something Good MacGyver1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanobrain
    I think it may depend on what you mean by 'control'.
    In Texas...gun control means you use both hands to shoot

    I'm not sure how many times someone actually enters the wrong house "by accident"....purely an honest mistake. 99% of the time, if a stranger is in your house, without your permission, chances are they aren't there to swap meatloaf recipes...they're there to steal your stuff.

    And in Texas, we just passed the "castle law", which lowers the restrictions on using deadly force against home invaders. So I wouldn't go wonderin' into the wrong house around here.
    Fixin' shit that ain't broke.
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  9. #8  
    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by william
    (unless they enter my house late at night and attempt to harm me...).
    Or if they enter your house late at might by accident, and you think they intend to harm you.
    I'll just have to make sure they don't repeat that mistake then.


    Ron, what about people that hunt? Sometimes the deer quota for hunters is increased to thin out the population because of an increase in deer/car accidents. It would seem that accidents in general are sometimes unavoidable.


    I'm not sure who's quote this is, and I've heard variations of it, but...
    "God didn't make men equal... Sam Colt did."

    Cheers
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
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  10. #9  
    Forum Professor river_rat's Avatar
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    The us does not need gun control, it first needs half decent gun registering laws, laws against minors owning weapons and laws forcing people to store weapons safely before you even think of actual gun control!
    As is often the case with technical subjects we are presented with an unfortunate choice: an explanation that is accurate but incomprehensible, or comprehensible but wrong.
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  11. #10  
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    "Events in Australia, meanwhile, illustrate the power of gun control. In 1996, after a gunman in Tasmania killed 35 people, semi-automatic rifles and pump-action shotguns were banned. (Access to semi-automatic handguns was already controlled.) Since then, gun deaths have dropped, and most striking are the figures for mass shootings. In the 18 years prior to 1996, there were 13; in the past decade, none (Injury Prevention, vol 12, p 365)."


    Then again, it is pretty difficult to enter Australia with any sort of contraband. The same can not be said for the US, which is easier to enter, making it easy for less social individuals to acquire illegal arms.
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  12. #11  
    Ron
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    [quote="william"][quote="Ophiolite"]
    Quote Originally Posted by william
    Ron, what about people that hunt? Sometimes the deer quota for hunters is increased to thin out the population because of an increase in deer/car accidents. It would seem that accidents in general are sometimes unavoidable.


    Cheers
    You are correct that accidents in general are sometimes unavoidable. But personally, I think society would be better off with more deer and less guns than with more guns and less deer.

    Ron
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  13. #12  
    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
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    But...
    did you think about poor old Charlton Heston...
    if there were a ban on guns he'd have to go back to making bad movies!

    That's really why I'm against gun control...!
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
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  14. #13  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by william
    Sometimes the deer quota for hunters is increased to thin out the population because of an increase in deer/car accidents.
    funny that - when there's too many deer/car accidents, everyone's clamouring for culling the deer, not the cars or their drivers ...
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  15. #14  
    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    Quote Originally Posted by william
    Sometimes the deer quota for hunters is increased to thin out the population because of an increase in deer/car accidents.
    funny that - when there's too many deer/car accidents, everyone's clamouring for culling the deer, not the cars or their drivers ...

    Well... have you ever tasted deer meat? It's pretty good.

    Plus, I almost hit a deer within the last week. (No shit!) I've been driving for 17 years and never had this happen before (mind you, I see deer all the time, but usually at a safe distance). And... I've only had one accident - when I was 18 years old (the guy in front signaled right but turned left...). I'd say that I am a pretty safe driver.

    If you have ever had a close call with a deer you would know that they come out of nowhere, and whether you hit it or not basically only depends on your brakes. (Those stupid "deer whistles" don't work by the way....) If I had hit that deer, I suppose you would have my license taken away...?

    Cheers
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
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  16. #15  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by william
    If I had hit that deer, I suppose you would have my license taken away...?
    only if it was outside the hunting season
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  17. #16  
    Forum Ph.D.
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    Quote Originally Posted by william
    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    Quote Originally Posted by william
    Sometimes the deer quota for hunters is increased to thin out the population because of an increase in deer/car accidents.
    funny that - when there's too many deer/car accidents, everyone's clamouring for culling the deer, not the cars or their drivers ...

    Well... have you ever tasted deer meat? It's pretty good.

    Plus, I almost hit a deer within the last week. (No shit!) I've been driving for 17 years and never had this happen before (mind you, I see deer all the time, but usually at a safe distance). And... I've only had one accident - when I was 18 years old (the guy in front signaled right but turned left...). I'd say that I am a pretty safe driver.

    If you have ever had a close call with a deer you would know that they come out of nowhere, and whether you hit it or not basically only depends on your brakes. (Those stupid "deer whistles" don't work by the way....) If I had hit that deer, I suppose you would have my license taken away...?

    Cheers
    Which state do you live in? (Don't see many deer in Sofla...mostly gators, snakes, and Iguanas; and yes, they do attempt to cross )

    On topic: I agree with the rat (river_rat, that is).
    Whence comes this logic: no evidence = false?

    http://www.atheistthinktank.net/thinktank/index.php

    Theists welcome.
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  18. #17  
    Forum Ph.D. Wolf's Avatar
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    Ah, yes, gun control. Yet another excuse for not accepting responsibility.

    True I think a lot of things do need regulated. I see no reason why anyone needs easy access to a machinegun or assault rifle. Trust me, the deer ain't gonna shoot back, and if the US ever got invaded on a scale massive enough that the civilians had to arm themselves...well, maybe you should learn to aim.

    But don't get me wrong, I whole-heartedly think that people should be allowed to have guns. The catch is that we have to be responsible. That means not only personal responsibility, but responsibility for being parents (if you have kids). Any parent who's kid brings a gun to school and they say they didn't know, should face criminal charges and lose their kids. There's no excuse for not knowing what your kids are doing.

    I mean, take a look at all the school violence we've seen in the past decade. Almost all of the kids were behaving in ways that should have sent up little flags. And what about the one kid, I think it was the Columbine shooting, where the kid was making bombs in the garage and had like five or six guns? When people confronted his mom, she said "I respected his privacy." She should have been sentenced to death by flogging. My god. There's a line between respecting your kid's privacy, and not being a parent.

    Oy, I'm ranting, aren't I?

    Anywho, if people want to have a gun, cool. It's probably a good idea that the government requires they have a permit, and be licensed for the weapon to prove they can actually handle it. Most of all, if you don't absolutely need the gun, if you aren't going hunting or going to the range, it should stay in your freaking house.

    Ugh, this topic makes me irritable, I'm out...
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  19. #18  
    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Which state do you live in? (Don't see many deer in Sofla...mostly gators, snakes, and Iguanas; and yes, they do attempt to cross )
    I live in Michigan where 2 out of 3 people wear camouflage as a daily attire.

    I agree with Wolf (although I may hunt wolves some day...).

    I don't want government to protect me from myself.

    Plus, while I only have two guns, my father has many more. Most of the guns he owns were passed down from the family. He has shotguns and rifles that his grandmother and grandfather hunted with. And guns that his father and uncles hunted with. They have much sentimental value.

    Mind you, I wouldn't be happy having to give up my guns due to a ban, but I bought them myself. They have no sentimental value to me so I could live with it. But I (and my father) would be quite distressed if we were made to hand over some of the guns that our past relatives used to hunt with. They are a small piece of family history. (And keep in mind that my family didn't hunt with assault weapons....)

    Cheers
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
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  20. #19  
    Forum Ph.D. Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by william
    Mind you, I wouldn't be happy having to give up my guns due to a ban, but I bought them myself. They have no sentimental value to me so I could live with it. But I (and my father) would be quite distressed if we were made to hand over some of the guns that our past relatives used to hunt with. They are a small peice of family history. (And keep in mind that my family didn't hunt with assault weapons....)
    I think the current methods used by the government don't involve taking away the weapon. Instead they use methods that render it inoperable.

    My grandfather had two sub-machineguns he brought home from WWII. He kept one for range use, and had it kept at a range locker. He wanted to keep the other at home. Since it was illegal to own a machinegun, he had to have the chamber drilled so it couldn't fire. Now, while it looks and mechanically operates the same, it just can't shoot.
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  21. #20  
    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf
    Quote Originally Posted by william
    Mind you, I wouldn't be happy having to give up my guns due to a ban, but I bought them myself. They have no sentimental value to me so I could live with it. But I (and my father) would be quite distressed if we were made to hand over some of the guns that our past relatives used to hunt with. They are a small piece of family history. (And keep in mind that my family didn't hunt with assault weapons....)
    I think the current methods used by the government don't involve taking away the weapon. Instead they use methods that render it inoperable.

    My grandfather had two sub-machineguns he brought home from WWII. He kept one for range use, and had it kept at a range locker. He wanted to keep the other at home. Since it was illegal to own a machinegun, he had to have the chamber drilled so it couldn't fire. Now, while it looks and mechanically operates the same, it just can't shoot.

    Well... I guess at least we could keep the family history sort of intact. Maybe we could "scare" the animals into "giving up"... as long as they aren't aware of the details of the law.

    I guess that's better than losing the guns altogether, but, as you might imagine, if they are inoperable, then they wouldn't be much good for hunting anymore.

    I still don't like it....

    Cheers
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
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  22. #21  
    Forum Ph.D. Wolf's Avatar
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    Agreed.

    There's certain aspects of gun control that are just ridiculous.

    I mean, I can certainly understand not wanting people to have machineguns.

    Gun control laws break down when you try to go all peace-hippie with it. If, for instance, they banned guns outright, then we could just use bows and arrows. Ban bows and we start using rocks, spears, clubs, whips, fresh fruit, and so on.

    People will find ways to nix themselves and others no matter what laws there are. The act of banning weapons won't solve anything.
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  23. #22  
    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
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    I agree 110% Wolf.

    By the way, I just thought of several (million) incidents where guns have stopped/prevented crime. Ironically, it happens all the time. Just ask a police officer!

    Cheers
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
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