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Thread: money

  1. #1 money 
    Forum Freshman K.I.T.T.'s Avatar
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    Do you have so much money to buy everything you want and to realize every dream you have? Is someone able to realize his or her dreams only with money? Does money makes deeply happy? Or isn't one who has no money poor but one who has nothing but money the poorest at all?

    in my opinion, money have gotten too much priority in our society. too much turns around money. do you know the statement "when it deals about money friendship drops out?" there is a lot of truth on it although friendship and relationship is much more valueable I think. having relations and contact with other people is particularly important to develop our personality. for me it is necessary to talk about different things with friends or also with other people to have an interchange with our thoughts and opinions. okay, you can do it on a forum but that is completely different.

    it is nice to be able to buy much and expensive things or to be on holidays every year. You need money to buy food, to build up a house, to drive a car that is clear but it is just useful to live but nothing to live for.


    I could go on but... how do you feel about money?


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    Actually while money itself doesnt make you happy, you can use it to further your dreams. For example, while I wouldnt be happy lounging in a mansion with a fast car, I would be happy spending billions to further my theories and research. So my belief is Money as a goal wont bring happiness but money is a good means to an end.


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  4. #3  
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    Money is nothing more than a way of keeping track of who owes what goods and services to whom for goods and services rendered. What can be wrong with that? If there are inequities or inaccuracies in the process there will be problems, but that is not the fault of the money.
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  5. #4  
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    Money can give you a sense of security. It's always nice to know your next 200 meals are already paid for, as well as your house.

    Take just about any happy situation you could ever be in, and it will end if money becomes a serious enough problem. On a national scale, a failing economy can lead to war and even genocide.
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  6. #5 Re: money 
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    Hm... I think money is not that important. If i love money then that would mean that money is my god.
    You atheist are are always denying the truth and don't want to here the truth its like you closing your ears.
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  7. #6 Re: money 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Hm... I think money is not that important. If i love money then that would mean that money is my god.
    non-sequitur
    Whence comes this logic: no evidence = false?

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  8. #7 Re: money 
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    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Hm... I think money is not that important. If i love money then that would mean that money is my god.
    non-sequitur
    Ok umm... what don't you understand about it? Its simple. Can you plz talk english because i don't know latin.
    You atheist are are always denying the truth and don't want to here the truth its like you closing your ears.
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  9. #8  
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    latin for "does not follow", meaning that your two statements don't follow from one another, or from what was said before
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  10. #9  
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    I have a bit, and I get a lot out of helping others with it. so money can be a useful tool, and thats all it is to me a tool.

    you would think it would become more important, the less you have, but that doesn't appear to be the case, the poor would obviously like a little more but they are also the most giving people you could meet, they would give there last mouthful to help another, the rich would just spit on you if you knocked on there door asking for food, fair enough there are a few who wouldn't.
    I dislike it when you hear in the news X rich man gave X amount to charity, when you equat it to his earning, it works out about 0000000.1% but a poor man will throw at least 1/2% of his earnings in. says an awful lot to me.

    I came from poor and struggle upwards, I know what it is like to be destitute, so I give at least 50/60% of my earning to charitable enterprises, both here and abroad. I dislike rich people, they are so far up there on arses. it's almost unbelievable, I believe Ghandi had it right when he said (when refering to money)" there is more than enough for everybodys needs, but not enough for everybodys greed"
    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense - Buddha"
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    latin for "does not follow", meaning that your two statements don't follow from one another, or from what was said before
    Oh Thx
    You atheist are are always denying the truth and don't want to here the truth its like you closing your ears.
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  12. #11 Re: money 
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    Quote Originally Posted by K.I.T.T.
    do you know the statement "when it deals about money friendship drops out?" there is a lot of truth on it although friendship and relationship is much more valueable I think.
    Well, wouldn't that depend on the amount of money and the nature of the friendship?
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  13. #12 Re: money 
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    [quote="Scifor Refugee"]
    Quote Originally Posted by K.I.T.T.
    do you know the statement "when it deals about money friendship drops out?" there is a lot of truth on it although friendship and relationship is much more valueable I think.
    Well, wouldn't that depend on the amount of money and the nature of the friendship?
    What does money have to do with freindship?
    You atheist are are always denying the truth and don't want to here the truth its like you closing your ears.
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  14. #13 Re: money 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Hm... I think money is not that important. If i love money then that would mean that money is my god.
    non-sequitur
    Ok umm... what don't you understand about it? Its simple. Can you plz talk english because i don't know latin.
    I love money --/-> money is my god.
    Whence comes this logic: no evidence = false?

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  15. #14 Re: money 
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    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by scientstphilosophertheist
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Hm... I think money is not that important. If i love money then that would mean that money is my god.
    non-sequitur
    Ok umm... what don't you understand about it? Its simple. Can you plz talk english because i don't know latin.
    I love money --/-> money is my god.
    Ok are you making fun of what i am saying?
    You atheist are are always denying the truth and don't want to here the truth its like you closing your ears.
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  16. #15 Re: money 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    What does money have to do with freindship?
    He said that friendship was more important than money. I was simply pointing out that it depends...
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by geezer
    I have a bit, and I get a lot out of helping others with it. so money can be a useful tool, and thats all it is to me a tool.

    you would think it would become more important, the less you have, but that doesn't appear to be the case, the poor would obviously like a little more but they are also the most giving people you could meet, they would give there last mouthful to help another, the rich would just spit on you if you knocked on there door asking for food, fair enough there are a few who wouldn't.
    I dislike it when you hear in the news X rich man gave X amount to charity, when you equat it to his earning, it works out about 0000000.1% but a poor man will throw at least 1/2% of his earnings in. says an awful lot to me.

    I came from poor and struggle upwards, I know what it is like to be destitute, so I give at least 50/60% of my earning to charitable enterprises, both here and abroad. I dislike rich people, they are so far up there on arses. it's almost unbelievable, I believe Ghandi had it right when he said (when refering to money)" there is more than enough for everybodys needs, but not enough for everybodys greed"
    I can see where you're coming from, but to say "I dislike rich people" is wrong, especially with your justification. You make it sound like all rich people are niggardly snobs. Granted many are, your claim is nevertheless an over generalization.
    Whence comes this logic: no evidence = false?

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  18. #17 Re: money 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scifor Refugee
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    What does money have to do with freindship?
    He said that friendship was more important than money. I was simply pointing out that it depends...
    Oh ok
    You atheist are are always denying the truth and don't want to here the truth its like you closing your ears.
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  19. #18  
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    Perhaps the big problem is not money but the CONSUMERISM and greed-which we have been shaped into by our corporate state---thanks to its relentless and highly sophistacted advertising system. It shapes people into shopping mad crazies who load up their homes with so much "stuff" they have to rent storage units and have garage sales just in order to keep from being burried alive!

    It is a system that uses up the world's resources at the expense of the poor throughout the world and everyone's future just for the sake of quartly profits. It has nothing to do with achieving "happines."

    charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com
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  20. #19 Re: money 
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    Quote Originally Posted by K.I.T.T.
    Do you have so much money to buy everything you want and to realize every dream you have? Is someone able to realize his or her dreams only with money? Does money makes deeply happy? Or isn't one who has no money poor but one who has nothing but money the poorest at all?

    in my opinion, money have gotten too much priority in our society. too much turns around money. do you know the statement "when it deals about money friendship drops out?" there is a lot of truth on it although friendship and relationship is much more valueable I think. having relations and contact with other people is particularly important to develop our personality. for me it is necessary to talk about different things with friends or also with other people to have an interchange with our thoughts and opinions. okay, you can do it on a forum but that is completely different.

    it is nice to be able to buy much and expensive things or to be on holidays every year. You need money to buy food, to build up a house, to drive a car that is clear but it is just useful to live but nothing to live for.


    I could go on but... how do you feel about money?
    Money doesn't die because a lot of persons are convinced that they live better with its social system.
    Personality doesn't come from honesty..., this is our problem!
    Money is our owner, it creates our personality..., therefore it would have to be right...
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  21. #20  
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    Perhaps in today's high level of decadence, it's true, money seems to rule everything. People believe that the more stuff they have, the better off they are.

    Personally I think money can buy you happiness, but not directly.

    I get a lot of enjoyment out of my car. Working on it, driving it, and the idea of owning it by my own efforts, gives me a lot of enjoyment. In a way, although the money helped me get the car that led to my happiness, ultimately the happiness was my own. The car didn't come with happiness.
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  22. #21  
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    http://kwiksurveys.com/?s=MMNEMJ_7c23dd0a

    Hello everyone, this is a scientific survey that aims to prove or disprove our hypothesis, which is “Constant handling of money leads to poor health”. It has been conducted over a number of demographics, and any constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated. The survey is anonymous and the data will only be used in the study. It would be fantastic if as many advocates of science as possible could complete this survey. I am sure the results will accurately portray the truth, and the results of this survey will be available to anyone that wants them. We would appreciate it if you help us by filling out this quick survey.
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  23. #22  
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    Moving this to general--nothing to do with scientific study of religion--At all.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
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  24. #23  
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    Hi,

    I truly think that you have that much money you have as that you be paid the amount of what you add to a better future.

    It can be a plus, normally, but, if you have too much it was not. On the contrary, when you were not paid the due amount, as for the moment, then you still get the amount you deserve. Therefore, to me, true life and what it has for you was never about money first hand, but about what you were willing to add to it all. You couldn't enjoy the cash otherwise anyway.

    Steve
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  25. #24  
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    I love my money.
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  26. #25  
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    Nobody ever has enough money, the more you have the more you want. The thing about money is realising when you have enough to be happy and enjoying it.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by K.I.T.T. View Post
    Do you have so much money to buy everything you want and to realize every dream you have? Is someone able to realize his or her dreams only with money? Does money makes deeply happy? Or isn't one who has no money poor but one who has nothing but money the poorest at all?

    in my opinion, money have gotten too much priority in our society. too much turns around money. do you know the statement "when it deals about money friendship drops out?" there is a lot of truth on it although friendship and relationship is much more valueable I think. having relations and contact with other people is particularly important to develop our personality. for me it is necessary to talk about different things with friends or also with other people to have an interchange with our thoughts and opinions. okay, you can do it on a forum but that is completely different.

    it is nice to be able to buy much and expensive things or to be on holidays every year. You need money to buy food, to build up a house, to drive a car that is clear but it is just useful to live but nothing to live for.


    I could go on but... how do you feel about money?


    Woman view money as a needed tool, to properly raise their offspring. The more money her mate has, the better off her children will be.
    Men view money as a way to get woman.
    And people view money as a way to get power.

    So just about every one, wants money in some way.
    Having lots of money, is better than having no money. And money is needed to live.

    You said, in my opinion, money have gotten too much priority in our society. too much turns around money.

    I agree. And perhaps some people spend so much time dreaming about being a millionaire, that they forget that they can still get many of the things they want, without winning the lottery.

    I think maybe these people, should put forth more action in achieving their dreams.


    Then I hate the way people blindly respect people, who have lots of money. I always say its so stupid to respect people just for being rich.

    And it seems some people believe, rich people are also our leaders. But perhaps this respect of the rich is also in me. I watch these millionaire tv shows like "Undercover Boss" and "Secret Millionaire." And when there is a millionaire in these shows, and he/she connects with the poor workers, and gives them lots of money, and seems to care about them so much, I am touched by this.

    I saw one of these shows, were a CEO gave away so much money to his poor workers, that his upper level staff was against it. But he said he connected with those people, and then he gave them the money. The CEO said he lost touch, and he forgot what was important. Then he got in his car to visit his sick father, to tell him I love you. I was cheering for that CEO on the inside, did I think he was my leader??? If I did, I sure thought he was a good one.


    Also some times I think, that rich people dont actually spend their money.

    For example, I think that if I was Bill Gates, I would have every coin ever made, (a staff to care for my things), a small primate zoo in my backyard, a huge fishing pond in my back yard, 10 motorbikes, 15 ATVs, a golf range, a shooting range, a safe high quality helicopter, a homo erectus hand ax collection, early human tool collection, a safe airplane, 250 top quality remote control airplanes/heli's, a fish/shrimp/reptile room, several fast cars, several large trucks, the best telescope, the best microscope, ex.ex.ex.ex.ex.ex.ex.ex.

    The question is, do most rich people buy everything they want?
    Did Bill Gates ever do a spending spree like I would?
    I know Warren Buffet did not.
    I know of very rich people, who live in middle class neighborhoods, who take public transportation.

    The only rich person I know, that really spends for desires is Jay Leno. He has a car/steam collection like I would have.
    I think theres a lot of millionaires/billionaires, that dont even buy all the things, that you would think they want.

    Then you have the crazy billionaires, who wont give a homeless man a dime.

    Perhaps I do not respect people just for being rich, but after re-reading, my what would I do if I was Bill Gates. I seems I think about being rich too.
    But its just a dream, and the crazy thing is, I already have many of the items on my B. Gates list, I just dont have a monkey collection.

    I think I went over 3 years +, without thinking about being rich. But recently some young family members and I, had a what would you do if you were rich talk. Then earlier tonight I actually had some one bring up the rich questions. But perhaps when I watch the millionaire tv shows, I sometimes think what would I do.

    How do I feel about money? I have wondered what would I do with $50 billion dollars, but most of the time I could care less about money. I tend to keep my eyes on the real prize.

    But I do like having enough money, to live the simple life style I am used too.

    Chad.
    Last edited by chad; July 17th, 2012 at 12:19 AM.
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by K.I.T.T. View Post
    Do you have so much money to buy everything you want and to realize every dream you have? Is someone able to realize his or her dreams only with money? Does money makes deeply happy? Or isn't one who has no money poor but one who has nothing but money the poorest at all?

    in my opinion, money have gotten too much priority in our society. too much turns around money. do you know the statement "when it deals about money friendship drops out?" there is a lot of truth on it although friendship and relationship is much more valueable I think. having relations and contact with other people is particularly important to develop our personality. for me it is necessary to talk about different things with friends or also with other people to have an interchange with our thoughts and opinions. okay, you can do it on a forum but that is completely different.

    it is nice to be able to buy much and expensive things or to be on holidays every year. You need money to buy food, to build up a house, to drive a car that is clear but it is just useful to live but nothing to live for.


    I could go on but... how do you feel about money?


    Woman view money as a needed tool, to properly raise their offspring. The more money her mate has, the better off her children will be.
    Men view money as a way to get woman.
    And people view money as a way to get power.
    in your generaqlized, unsubstantiated opinion, that is. Speak for yourself.
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  29. #28  
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    Chad speaks
    Woman view money as a needed tool, to properly raise their offspring. The more money her mate has, the better off her children will be.
    Might I remind you that this is not a locker room, male-only environment. I'm perfectly happy for the men here to speak up for a more sensible rational view about women and their earning power generally. But me? I will not listen to insulting personal presumptions about me, my husband, my job/s and my family.

    You want to make facile, Freud-on-the-run, women's magazine style observations about women's incapacity to look after themselves or their children ....... do it somewhere else.
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  30. #29  
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    from John Maynard Keynes (circa 1930):
    When the accumulation of wealth is no longer of high social importance, there will be great changes in the code of morals. We shall be able to rid ourselves of many of the pseudo-moral principles which have hag-ridden us for two hundred years, by which we have exalted some of the most distasteful of human qualities into the position of the highest virtues. We shall be able to afford to dare to assess the money-motive at its true value. The love of money as a possession — as distinguished from the love of money as a means to the enjoyments and realities of life — will be recognised for what it is, a somewhat disgusting morbidity, one of those semi-criminal, semi-pathological propensities which one hands over with a shudder to the specialists in mental disease ... But beware! The time for all this is not yet. For at least another hundred years we must pretend to ourselves and to everyone that fair is foul and foul is fair; for foul is useful and fair is not. Avarice and usury and precaution must be our gods for a little longer still. For only they can lead us out of the tunnel of economic necessity into daylight.
    Last edited by sculptor; July 16th, 2012 at 09:16 AM.
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    I take the point about society changing when the acquisition of money is no longer the driving force, however what I would question is how much it will really change. For many money is just a substitute for power, the two become interchangeable. Communism has taught us that even in societies that are not solely driven by money there is still major competition for power. All societies have structures of power, with some people being held in higher regard than others and having more influence within a society.
    What capitalism has done is highlighted the link between power and wealth and simplified it for people. This leaves most people believing that if they suddenly have millions of dollars they will command more respect and have influence. This is what people really care about, it is what the money can get for them.

    So even within a non financially driven society the same things will exist, that same competition and inequality will still be there.
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    Keynes was a jackass. What made him think wealth would be no longer of high social importance?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Keynes was a jackass. What made him think wealth would be no longer of high social importance?
    Money is a useful way of quantifying inequality, we sometimes find it easy to see the poverty that exists in other countries and forget about poverty and inequality in our own. When we consider that there are billionaires and yet still others that don't even have a roof over there heads it brings this inequality into focus.
    Whilst there will always be a divide it should the aim of civilised societies to reduce the devide, not to let it grow wider.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Keynes was a jackass. What made him think wealth would be no longer of high social importance?
    Money is a useful way of quantifying inequality, we sometimes find it easy to see the poverty that exists in other countries and forget about poverty and inequality in our own. When we consider that there are billionaires and yet still others that don't even have a roof over there heads it brings this inequality into focus.
    Whilst there will always be a divide it should the aim of civilised societies to reduce the devide, not to let it grow wider.
    No, it is not a "useful way of quantifying inequality." It is a useful way for people to keep track of financial obligations, and that is necessary for the functioning of an economy.
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    Well I hate to disagree, but yes it is a way to measure inequality, why should one human being have billions when another has nothing?
    Yes there is a divide, and for various reasons there should be, but the extent of the divide is far to great and is highlighted as inequality by the gap between the rich and poor.

    I think personal wealth should be capped around $30 million max and any more redistributed between societies poorest.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
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  36. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Keynes was a jackass. What made him think wealth would be no longer of high social importance?
    LOL
    That's really funny Harold!
    Take a bow, please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Well I hate to disagree, but yes it is a way to measure inequality, why should one human being have billions when another has nothing?
    Assuming that the person who has billions has earned his billions in a legal fashion, then he has billions because people have paid him billions for whatever product or service he offers. If people have freely paid him billions, then he has provided sevices to society that are worth billions. He doesn't owe you anything else.

    What does this have to do with Keynes's prediction that wealth would not be of social importance?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisgorlitz View Post
    Well I hate to disagree, but yes it is a way to measure inequality, why should one human being have billions when another has nothing?
    Assuming that the person who has billions has earned his billions in a legal fashion, then he has billions because people have paid him billions for whatever product or service he offers. If people have freely paid him billions, then he has provided sevices to society that are worth billions. He doesn't owe you anything else.

    What does this have to do with Keynes's prediction that wealth would not be of social importance?

    I can understand the logic of that way of thinking, and to a strong degree I support it. However where does it end? there has to be limits.

    If this situation continues we are going to have a situation where most of the population has nothing and a few people have everything and is that still accepatable?

    Just how much wealth does one person need?

    The super rich are continueing to squeeze money out of the poorest to the point where many have nothing left.
    Capaitalism will not work when a few end up with all the money and the majority have nothing, it is not democratic either.
    Many americans has lost their homes because money they might have had to pay for them has ended up in the bank accounts of a few very weathly people who'll probarbly never even notice a few extra billion.

    That is why I suggested a cap to stop all the wealth ending up with the few at the expense of the many.

    Yes it's about finding the right balance, but when millions of people haven't got enough money left to pay for their homes you have to realise things have gone to far.
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    Many americans has lost their homes because money they might have had to pay for them has ended up in the bank accounts of a few very weathly people who'll probarbly never even notice a few extra billion.
    You mean all the people who overextended themselves buying the homes that were too big, violated every rule of investment and put everything into an obviously inflated housing markets and had no backup plan?

    --
    Anyhow.
    Money beyond a certain point certainly doesn't bring happiness--which tends to relate to strong freindships, the personal investment you give to others, and good experiences rather than the amount of crap we own.
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    Keynes was a bit of a utopian
    He voiced his utopian views in hopes that they would come true.

    a stray analogy would be that we need a monitized economy to fill out the infrastructure, but once that is done(if it ever can be) then the monitized economy becomes detrimental because it must always be a growing economy, and when it has nothing left to build, it will exist on destruction.

    Can you imagine a stable(non-growth) monitized economy?
    Has such a thing ever existed?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Many americans has lost their homes because money they might have had to pay for them has ended up in the bank accounts of a few very weathly people who'll probarbly never even notice a few extra billion.
    You mean all the people who overextended themselves buying the homes that were too big, violated every rule of investment and put everything into an obviously inflated housing markets and had no backup plan?

    --
    Anyhow.
    Money beyond a certain point certainly doesn't bring happiness--which tends to relate to strong freindships, the personal investment you give to others, and good experiences rather than the amount of crap we own.

    Well yes I would agree, with that to a point but only a small one as there were other factors.

    People need homes to live in, many people were lead to believe that buying was the right way to go. They didn't come with this off their own bats, this is the message they were being fed. Also there were many people that were convinced to take out morgages they couldn't afford to repay by unscrupulous salesmen making huge commisions.

    These for the most case were ordinary people who didn't think they were doing anything wrong they, as you mention, were forced to pay through the nose because of an inflated housing bubble that was created by banks and developers that saw as a way to exploit ordinary people to the maximum.

    All the while the average person was ending up with less and less money to spend because the super rich were taking ever larger amounts of money off ordinary people and getting richer in the process.


    The point is this Harold is perfectly correct, very rich people who make their money honestly and paying there taxes are doing nothing wrong and shouldn't be denigrated for being successful within the system. The problem is though when they are so successful to the point where there share of the money supply is dramatically effecting ordinary people's ability to pay for things such as housing and health insurance it is the system that needs changing.

    Just suppose we let the current system continue for another 30 years and we end up where we have trillionaires, we could realistically be faced with a situation where 0.001 % of population ends up with 99.99 % of the wealth.

    The point is that whilst people are successful we should applaud it and wish them well, but also ensure that the majority are taken care of and will always have enough money to have normal lives, that they can afford health insurance, they can afford to bring up their children and they can afford to pay for their houses.

    We have competition laws to stop monopolies at company level, we need laws to limit monopolies of personal wealth to protect the majority and ensure the basic freedoms that everyone has been promised.
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    Honestly. All this guff about people overextending themselves on loans.

    The loans? Saw an excellent docu-essay on the relative financial sophistication and consequent losses of poor and wealthy people as the GFC hit. Maybe late 2009? Certainly after Bernie Madoff went to the slammer.

    What some of the representatives of the people facing eviction said was ...

    how come people with very little financial background were getting no sympathy for losing their homes and being blamed for not understanding their loan agreements while people with millions to invest and decades of money management behind them were, firstly, taken in by a blatant Ponzi scheme which anyone could understand if they bothered to look at it and secondly, getting sympathy for losing their homes?
    (That's not a quote. It's just framed for emphasis.)
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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    This is a forum of science. And its scientists, that state the things I posted, I did not come up with those myself.
    And I would choose true love, over $100 billion dollars any day. You people dont seem to know who you are talking to.
    (Sorry for getting mushy.)



    Adelady and MeteorWayne, I apologize to you both, and also your families.

    I did not intend to offend you,
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Many americans has lost their homes because money they might have had to pay for them has ended up in the bank accounts of a few very weathly people who'll probarbly never even notice a few extra billion.
    You mean all the people who overextended themselves buying the homes that were too big, violated every rule of investment and put everything into an obviously inflated housing markets and had no backup plan?

    --
    Anyhow.
    Money beyond a certain point certainly doesn't bring happiness--which tends to relate to strong freindships, the personal investment you give to others, and good experiences rather than the amount of crap we own.

    Many people who loose their homes, are actually victims of corrupt banking practices.
    Many large lending groups break rules and regulations, and lend people money, when the rules say they are not eligible for a loan.


    Also many/most Americans, who go bankrupt are actually not poor spenders. What happened was a family member got cancer/heart problems, and they maxed out their credit cards to save them.
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    And many people who lost their homes bought more home than they knew they could afford.

    A tale of two families.

    We bought a home we could afford. We bought cars we could afford and kept them 10-15 years.
    After 2 years, with raises, we refinanced our mortgage from 30 years to 15 years.
    We then paid extra every month using things like money we saved on groceries using coupons.
    in the end, our home was paid off in 16 years...

    Another family bought a home that cost twice what they could afford. They buy new cars every two years before the old one is paid for.

    Both families got laid off in this economy. Which one do you think is in better shape?
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    I deleted this post b/c it was too weird.
    Last edited by chad; July 17th, 2012 at 05:49 AM.
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    I really like my money............
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Honestly. All this guff about people overextending themselves on loans.

    The loans? Saw an excellent docu-essay on the relative financial sophistication and consequent losses of poor and wealthy people as the GFC hit. Maybe late 2009? Certainly after Bernie Madoff went to the slammer.

    What some of the representatives of the people facing eviction said was ...

    how come people with very little financial background were getting no sympathy for losing their homes and being blamed for not understanding their loan agreements while people with millions to invest and decades of money management behind them were, firstly, taken in by a blatant Ponzi scheme which anyone could understand if they bothered to look at it and secondly, getting sympathy for losing their homes?
    (That's not a quote. It's just framed for emphasis.)
    I wish more would or could understand the point you are making here Adelady.

    What makes it even worse is that the new money that was and is being created in order to give to government and political insiders/friends/etc creates, and will continue to create, inflation (higher costs or less quality/quantity for products and goods) that the poor and middle class will have to pay. The US government is, and has been, increasing the money supply and giving that money to those that politicians favor while giving/paying for that money by passing the cost/price of that new money onto the poor and middle class through inflation. It is a hidden tax, it is a hidden burden, it is a redistribution , a stripping of the little value and wealth that the poor and middle class do have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeteorWayne View Post
    And many people who lost their homes bought more home than they knew they could afford.

    A tale of two families.

    We bought a home we could afford. We bought cars we could afford and kept them 10-15 years.
    After 2 years, with raises, we refinanced our mortgage from 30 years to 15 years.
    We then paid extra every month using things like money we saved on groceries using coupons.
    in the end, our home was paid off in 16 years...

    Another family bought a home that cost twice what they could afford. They buy new cars every two years before the old one is paid for.

    Both families got laid off in this economy. Which one do you think is in better shape?
    And not a single dime should be printed/created to go towards paying for these peoples homes.... It is on them but, likewise, a single dime should not have been printed/created and given to the banks, firms or companies that gave, backed or bought the loans given to these people who tried to buy these homes.
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    I think Eza was trying to question materialism and weather that is the best philosophy to follow in life... right ezra?
    We'r nearly all raised on materialism... we'r always being taught to aspire to greater things, always being shown people such as sport stars and how muh wealth they have, we'r always encourage to want what these priviledge people have. Our mainstream culture seems to want us to not be content with getting by with what we need and to instead chase after great riches.

    I personally fell that friendships and relationships are by far a lot more fullfilling to us in our natural state than untold wealth would be... I can't say for certain coz i've never had untold wealth... but I imagine if i had mega riches then i would always suspect peoples motives for wanting to know me, i'd never know who i could trust and who really cares about me. Also if i was rich i'd be really insecure about losing all my wealth that i had grown accustomed to.

    If I just had the basic right to claim a small area of unpolluted land to grow my own food and could access some forests and waters to hunt and fish so that me, my family and friends could all life a healthy life.... then that is far more wealthy than being a millionaire in this dog eat dog society.
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    I think Eza was trying to question materialism and weather that is the best philosophy to follow in life... right ezra?<br>We'r nearly all raised on materialism... we'r always being taught to aspire to greater things, always being shown people such as sport stars and how muh wealth they have, we'r always encourage to want what these priviledge people have. Our mainstream culture seems to want us to not be content with getting by with what we need and to instead chase after great riches.<br><br>I&nbsp;personally fell that friendships and relationships are by far a lot more fullfilling to us in our natural state than untold wealth would be... I can't say for certain coz i've never had untold wealth... but I imagine if i had mega riches then i would always suspect peoples motives for wanting to know me, i'd never know who i could trust and who really cares about me. Also if i was rich i'd be really insecure about losing all my wealth that i had grown accustomed to.<br><br>If I just had the basic right to claim a small area of unpolluted land to grow my own food and could access some forests and waters to hunt and fish so that me, my family and friends could all life a healthy life.... then that is far more wealthy than being a millionaire in this dog eat dog society.
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    I think people that claims money dont make you happy lacks ambition and imagination.
    A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it. - David Stevens
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raziell View Post
    I think people that claims money dont make you happy lacks ambition and imagination.
    and money.
    Raziell likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Raziell View Post
    I think people that claims money dont make you happy lacks ambition and imagination.
    and money.
    Hah! And that ofcourse.
    A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it. - David Stevens
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raziell View Post
    I think people that claims money dont make you happy lacks ambition and imagination.
    Does that mean its ambition and imagination that make you happy?
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    It’s debt I have a problem with. Isn’t debt an abstract concept that doesn’t even exist in nature? E.g. You can own 3 apples but you can’t own minus 3 apples?

    Yet here I am affected by it, stuck with a house I bought 5 years ago(that is now only worth half the price) with another 30 years to pay it off!

    So ya, money would make me happy but debt forgiveness would make me even happier!
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapples View Post
    It’s debt I have a problem with. Isn’t debt an abstract concept that doesn’t even exist in nature? E.g. You can own 3 apples but you can’t own minus 3 apples?

    Yet here I am affected by it, stuck with a house I bought 5 years ago(that is now only worth half the price) with another 30 years to pay it off!

    So ya, money would make me happy but debt forgiveness would make me even happier!
    Ofcourse it doesn't exist in nature... we'r born unto the earth and the earth is for us to live from. nobody has ownership over anything... debt is an illusion, just like ownership. you don't own your house anymore than i own the rainforest. good luck telling your authorities that...

    Oxygen debt occurs in nature... you run too hard the body lends your muscles some stored energy, but thats ok becuase you can use the oxygen in the air to repay you bodies oxygen stores.
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