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  1. #1 Suicide 
    Forum Professor leohopkins's Avatar
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    Im not sure whether this belongs in the philosophy section, but anyway. Suicide. We are the only species that do it.
    Why do people do it ?


    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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  3. #2 Re: Suicide 
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    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    Im not sure whether this belongs in the philosophy section, but anyway. Suicide. We are the only species that do it.
    Why do people do it ?
    Many reasons depending on who you ask. Feeling of worthlessness, parents not loving you, terminal illness, parent losing a child, contstantly being bullied, ... I can go on and on.... The fact is, that today, its easy to leave.

    Some teens can't cope with what they see as a world full of pain. I know, because that was my excuse at age 10 but I had a parent who saw what I was trying to do, and got help for me. Some kids aren't so lucky.....

    Sad subject...

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    I guess suicide is something typically human, because we humans are more developed then animals (emotionally). The only thing the animals care for is staying alive. We humans live in more luxury, I guess that suicide is one of those "luxuries". Though what interests me: at what point would a human decide that suicide is the only solution?
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  5. #4  
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    actually, many species are thought to commit suicide. elephant remains are often found in certain areas, where many have died over very large periods in time. the thought is for some reason they go to these areas, quit eating and die. Dolphins, Whales, even some lesser sea creatures are thought to land them selfs for this this purpose. the giraffe will make no attempt to protect itself. some think for this purpose. i would suggest many others, we consider the survival of the fittest, is simply the survival of the strongest will to live.

    humans have means and a system to determine when the act is committed. we also are emotionally driven, these emotions control our desire to live or die. add a little, after life theory and many people, feel they will simply live on in another state.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33
    i would suggest many others, we consider the survival of the fittest, is simply the survival of the strongest will to live.
    maybe there is something right on this comment... but I think every human generally has a strong will to live in hisself. influents from outside the induvidual make a human have such thoughts about suicide. children love to live. for example the structure of our society and not want to be a part of a system like a machine can also be a reason. bettina has mentioned some examples. humans plan their lifes, some more or less the way how they want to live, to work, make plans of starting a family in contrast to animals that only have a natural drive to live and their instinct. a human is aware about his will to live an animal isn't. this is an aditional example that shows in which way humans and their positioning on earth differs from the animals and is far over the animals... and it is also a reason for the question "why do people do it?" because the will is given to the humans, not to animals. because without a will of live and the feeling of no sense in his life, or the feeling of no more being able to live can make people think suicide is the only solution, or the easiest. however, this is quite unnatural and I think particularly an appearance of this time.

    I think probably, there are some people who anyway get such a bad thought in their life. But most of them fear to die, fear the act of dieing or can't do it for other reasons until they decide not to do it never in their life. I think then, they will most-likely overcome the problem.
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  7. #6  
    Moderator Moderator AlexP's Avatar
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    there are always those lemmings that gathered into large herds and threw themselves off cliffs.

    (of course, that was staged for a Walt Disney nature documentary...)
    "There is a kind of lazy pleasure in useless and out-of-the-way erudition." -Jorge Luis Borges
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemboy
    there are always those lemmings that gathered into large herds and threw themselves off cliffs.

    (of course, that was staged for a Walt Disney nature documentary...)
    that must be one of the oldest urban myths around - it's just plain untrue that lemmings throw themselves off cliffs
    they may drown during their migrations when crossing rivers, or attempting to cross the sea (thinking it to be a very wide river)
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemboy
    there are always those lemmings that gathered into large herds and threw themselves off cliffs.

    (of course, that was staged for a Walt Disney nature documentary...)
    that must be one of the oldest urban myths around - it's just plain untrue that lemmings throw themselves off cliffs
    they may drown during their migrations when crossing rivers, or attempting to cross the sea (thinking it to be a very wide river)
    yeah. it is somewhat amusing though. the documentary described them as being on a "suicide drive."
    "There is a kind of lazy pleasure in useless and out-of-the-way erudition." -Jorge Luis Borges
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  10. #9  
    Forum Freshman K.I.T.T.'s Avatar
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    there are indeed lemmings that kill themselves. they make kamikaze! or is it worms?
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by K.I.T.T.
    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33
    i would suggest many others, we consider the survival of the fittest, is simply the survival of the strongest will to live.
    maybe there is something right on this comment... but I think every human generally has a strong will to live in hisself. influents from outside the induvidual make a human have such thoughts about suicide. children love to live. for example the structure of our society and not want to be a part of a system like a machine can also be a reason. bettina has mentioned some examples. humans plan their lifes, some more or less the way how they want to live, to work, make plans of starting a family in contrast to animals that only have a natural drive to live and their instinct. a human is aware about his will to live an animal isn't. this is an aditional example that shows in which way humans and their positioning on earth differs from the animals and is far over the animals... and it is also a reason for the question "why do people do it?" because the will is given to the humans, not to animals. because without a will of live and the feeling of no sense in his life, or the feeling of no more being able to live can make people think suicide is the only solution, or the easiest. however, this is quite unnatural and I think particularly an appearance of this time.

    I think probably, there are some people who anyway get such a bad thought in their life. But most of them fear to die, fear the act of dieing or can't do it for other reasons until they decide not to do it never in their life. I think then, they will most-likely overcome the problem.
    Yes, KITT, I noticed you are still learning English! May I suggest that you make short, sentencies, each with a single noun and a single verb! Make it easy for us to figure out what you are writing about. It is suicide to run it all together into one-sentence paragraphs!


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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemboy
    there are always those lemmings that gathered into large herds and threw themselves off cliffs.

    (of course, that was staged for a Walt Disney nature documentary...)
    that must be one of the oldest urban myths around - it's just plain untrue that lemmings throw themselves off cliffs
    they may drown during their migrations when crossing rivers, or attempting to cross the sea (thinking it to be a very wide river)
    'urban' myth? Not many lemmings in the city.

    The challenge with trying to explain phenomenoa like suicide, serial killers, etc returns full circle to 'scientific methodolgy' rather than speculation. More specifically,falsely providing variables that explain the exception and not the overwhelming majority of circumstances. If we do an experiment in a lab a thousand times we don't take the results of the one exception (the suicide) and ignore the other 999 (non suicides) subjected to the same variables. What is 'unique' to the exception and not just 'depression, feeling isolated, etc.'...the 999 that had those same variables present didn't commit suicide.

    Similar with much aberrant behavior. If serial kilers were molded by the 'x' variables' that are often provided as a reason for their sociopathic behavior then there would be a million such individuals and not hundreds.
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  13. #12  
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    cos we think about thinking..
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  14. #13  
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    @charles
    is it so difficult to understand? hm... I think about it and try to express my ideas in shorter and clearer sentences. but sentences with only one noun and verb are a too easy structure.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by K.I.T.T.
    there are indeed lemmings that kill themselves. they make kamikaze! or is it worms?
    lemmings dont kill themselves nor do worms.
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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    i think this could fall into the lines of yin and yang....balance of the universe, balance of nature.

    are we the only species that love? if so, then we must feel the exact opposite of love, absolute misery. and as we all know, severe depression can easily lead to suicide.
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  17. #16 Re: Suicide 
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    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    Im not sure whether this belongs in the philosophy section, but anyway. Suicide. We are the only species that do it.
    Why do people do it ?

    im an emo fag, i like cutting for fun...try it out. stupid animals like frogs arent smart enough to cut...
    im cool and u suck
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    Interesting perspectives, but also dangerous ones if you aren't able to deal with them. I am part dark / light, I know this feeling.. it's not a feeling but a need sometimes... until you pretend "what if".
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    Oh, one more thing. Anyone wanting to die do this trick I made up.

    Pretend you're in the middle ages, you have nothing like what you do now. Imagine how it would be, the problems, etc. Then you'll feel way, way much better!
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  20. #19  
    Forum Ph.D. Nevyn's Avatar
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    it's been shown in animals that if certain neurohormones are administrated the animal commits suicide
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  21. #20  
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    Why in humans? I would go with emotions. When someone doesn't know how to control them everything can seem worthless. The funny thing is that it's likely everything is worthless.


    Quote Originally Posted by sderenzi
    Oh, one more thing. Anyone wanting to die do this trick I made up.

    Pretend you're in the middle ages, you have nothing like what you do now. Imagine how it would be, the problems, etc. Then you'll feel way, way much better!
    I have a little trick too. A while back I just got sick and tired of being sick and tired and have been living a happy life ever since. Although, I never reached the point of seriously considering suicide.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  22. #21  
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    my wondering is why wouldnt someone thinking about suicide just try to change their situtation. they could move away and start somewhere new. the only way in which suicide would be remotely the solution (i still dont believe in it) is if they tried everything humanly possible to prevent themselves from goin thru with it.
    "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." - John Lennon
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  23. #22  
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    Has anyone mentioned brain chemistry and hormone levels yet?

    Our brain chemistry can seriously fuck up our thinking
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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    animals can get bored, but can they think ahead of how bored they might be in the future??

    i think boredom is a big reason, (or simply lack of pleasure) i think alot of people are forced into situations where they will never really have what they want, without some "lucky" event or some gigantic break (i.e. winning a lottery, getting a girl, person coming back to life etc..)

    And then there is the rampant idiocy of humans in general, i mean think about it.

    Right now, there are americans, in iraq, using chemical reactions to propel lead projectiles towards other beings with the intent of penetrating their flesh. Over "money" and "oil"

    When you think about how dumb humans really are, it can seem to be a huge let down, or a huge obstacle to overcome.

    I mean really, you humans are fuckin idiots. Why would anyone want to spend their lives around a bunch of morons?
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by OGIONIK

    Right now, there are americans, in iraq, using chemical reactions to propel lead projectiles towards other beings with the intent of penetrating their flesh. Over "money" and "oil"
    I dont know, I would consider it pretty clever to take out potential future enemies and get richer so one can finance bigger weapons all in one fell swoop(although its morally fucked up).
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  26. #25  
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    it would be even more clever if humanity could unite and realise its full potential instead of fighting amongst ourselves like imbeciles.

    :P
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  27. #26  
    Forum Ph.D. GhostofMaxwell's Avatar
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    Yes that would be great, but that would mean going against over 3 billion years of evolution.
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  28. #27  
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    if Jean-Paul Sartre couldnt figure it out, i dont think i could
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  29. #28  
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    If you dont consider terminally ill patients that want to end their suffering and extreme cases, theres also a mental health issue to factor in for many cases of suicide.

    The brain (and hormones, neurotransmiters, etc) is complex and regulates our behavior. When something is wrong with our stomach or bicep, we feel ill and go to the doctor, it does not interfere with our ability to detect something is wrong in he first place and to dicern what to do about it (pepto-bismol, rest muscles). But with depression and mental illness, sometimes you have a hard time even knowing that the problem is in part biological instead of entirely external and it can also prevent you from seeking the help you would get if any other organ was ill.

    Some of the people that commit suicide suffer from depression(neurological condition) at the time in addition to having a depressing situation.
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  30. #29  
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    i think that ppl who commits suicide think it will be different on the other side... but we keep the same soul.. why sould it be easier on the other side ? that's my interogation !
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo
    Some of the people that commit suicide suffer from depression(neurological condition) at the time in addition to having a depressing situation.
    An excellent point. Though the two are often related they remain different things.
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  32. #31  
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    Because some of us realize that all we're being in this life, is miserable so why stick around?

    And animals do commit suicide. I have seen many animals run in front of a car head first. They were trying to die, that's the only explanation.
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  33. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amaya
    And animals do commit suicide. I have seen many animals run in front of a car head first. They were trying to die, that's the only explanation.
    Here are four other explanations:
    1) They were unaware that cars are potentially lethal objects.
    2) They were fleeing something they considered to be a greater threat.
    3) They misjudged the possibility of avoiding the car.
    4) They did not notice the car.
    Therefore, your observations do not constitute clear evidence of animal suicide.
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  34. #33 Re: Suicide 
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    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    Im not sure whether this belongs in the philosophy section, but anyway. Suicide. We are the only species that do it.
    Why do people do it ?
    Animals live mainly by instinct, while human beings live by intelligence (we hope); I would suggest that this difference between the two is the reason why we search for "meaning" in life, why we have a need for spiritual fulfillment. Suicide is, most probably, a declaration of failure in this regard.
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  35. #34  
    Forum Ph.D. GhostofMaxwell's Avatar
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    Isn't depression and suicide more the product of our modern cushy world than anything?


    I mean for most animals its like Vietnam every day of their lives.
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  36. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostofMaxwell
    Isn't depression and suicide more the product of our modern cushy world than anything?


    I mean for most animals its like Vietnam every day of their lives.
    i don't know about you or anyone else but i've never been depressed, or talked to someone who was depressed, as a result of the world. other people and brain chemicals, ohh how joyfull possesing a teenage mind is, are the only two factors that i have ever personally seen result in someone being depressed, thus more the product of.
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  37. #36  
    Forum Ph.D. GhostofMaxwell's Avatar
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    Yeah, but it just seems the more luxury of safety and comfort we have , the more depressants prop up. Just like the wealthier a society, the less happiness is about in said society.
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  38. #37  
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    To me it's laziness and boredom matched with a lack of ambition. I'm not the suicidal kind thank heaven, but I tell you I need to be mentally busy to be happy. I'm exhausted by it, but I'm happy on the days that I focus my energy in deep technical study, writing for a short story competition, playing poker, and preparing for debates.

    My brother drones through work and then gets shit faced afterwards almost every day of the week. So it doesn't exactly surprise me that he gets incredibly depressed on his slow time.
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