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Thread: Is the Universe an illusion? Yes, it is.

  1. #1 Is the Universe an illusion? Yes, it is. 
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    Here is the proof that the Universe is an illusion! -> ternaryuniverse.com->the-universe-is-illusion.html

    Please comment if you agree or disagree.


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  3. #2  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShekharGayatri View Post
    Here is the proof that the Universe is an illusion! -> ternaryuniverse.com->the-universe-is-illusion.html

    Please comment if you agree or disagree.
    The way I see it is this....I can either argue for or against. However if the universe is an illusion as you propose then you and I plus whatever we write etc are also an illusion, thus no sense responding if in favor. Therefore the only logical response for me would be a negative one, but since you appear to be in favor then it also makes no sense to respond to you regarding the claim of proof (or even read the article despite not being a proper link). Where is the sense in receiving responses from a universe that is just an illusion?

    Now if some things in the universe are not illusions, such as responding, then the proof needs to be reworked IMHO. Please tell us if the claim includes everything and anything universal. As an illusion I don't see the importance of responding to another illusion, in fact it seems utterly useless.


    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  4. #3  
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    What exactly is an "illusion"?

    Is the universe one thing or a concatenation of events?

    If the latter then is there any predictable connection between the events or are they connected in a completely random way?

    If it is one thing then how can this be shown to be so?*
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    I liked the way you clarified your points.
    No idea if you read it or not. Unfortunately, I couldn't paste the link there. The forum did not allow me to do so.

    My point here is that without one's consciousness nothing exists for that person.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShekharGayatri View Post
    My point here is that without one's consciousness nothing exists for that person.
    Not sure where that came from. What happened to illusion?

    So if I have a consciousness then nothing does exist? Please clarify.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShekharGayatri View Post
    I liked the way you clarified your points.
    No idea if you read it or not. Unfortunately, I couldn't paste the link there. The forum did not allow me to do so.

    My point here is that without one's consciousness nothing exists for that person.
    That would seem to be a statement of the obvious. The implication however is that the only meaning one can usefully attach to "existence" is what one perceives to exist - or can deduce, from one's perceptions, is likely to exist.

    On this basis there is no meaning to the idea of the universe being an illusion since, if it is perceived to exist, that is what we mean by existence, so...... it does.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShekharGayatri View Post
    Unfortunately, I couldn't paste the link there. The forum did not allow me to do so.
    That's okay because there's a general rule that if you want to discuss something then you should make your point here.

    My point here is that without one's consciousness nothing exists for that person.
    Then your point is flawed.
    It says nothing about the universe itself as a separate entity.

    Oh, and I suggest you learn something about science before making pronunciations on it. The Big Bang is not Hawking's idea.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    Take the blue pill, Neo.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShekharGayatri View Post
    My point here is that without one's consciousness nothing exists for that person.
    This sounds like some sort of crackpot religious argument.
    Easily refuted. The universe existed long before humans.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ShekharGayatri View Post
    My point here is that without one's consciousness nothing exists for that person.
    This sounds like some sort of crackpot religious argument.
    Easily refuted. The universe existed long before humans.
    I don't think it's religious. It's a philosophical idea called solipsism. It's something that can't be proven one way or the other. Strictly speaking, it can't be proven that the universe existed before my birth. For example, any historical accounts of a time before my birth are still within my lifetime and are not proof of the existence of a time before my birth. That is, the historical account of a time can still exist even if the time itself doesn't.
    There are no paradoxes in relativity, just people's misunderstandings of it.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJW View Post
    Strictly speaking, it can't be proven that the universe existed before my birth. For example, any historical accounts of a time before my birth are still within my lifetime and are not proof of the existence of a time before my birth. That is, the historical account of a time can still exist even if the time itself doesn't.
    Such is a creationist argument. According to the creationists, history and archaeology are wrong, the sciences of geology, evolutionary biology and cosmology (among others) are wrong.
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KJW View Post
    Strictly speaking, it can't be proven that the universe existed before my birth. For example, any historical accounts of a time before my birth are still within my lifetime and are not proof of the existence of a time before my birth. That is, the historical account of a time can still exist even if the time itself doesn't.
    Such is a creationist argument. According to the creationists, history and archaeology are wrong, the sciences of geology, evolutionary biology and cosmology (among others) are wrong.
    It's not a creationist argument. It's a philosophical idea that there is no objective reality beyond the mental constructs of our mind. It's important to note that it cannot be proven that there exists an objective reality because any evidence that one might have of an objective reality is still part of the mental constructs of our mind. Regardless of what creationists believe about history and science, they still believe in an objective reality.
    There are no paradoxes in relativity, just people's misunderstandings of it.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJW View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ShekharGayatri View Post
    My point here is that without one's consciousness nothing exists for that person.
    This sounds like some sort of crackpot religious argument.
    Easily refuted. The universe existed long before humans.
    I don't think it's religious. It's a philosophical idea called solipsism. It's something that can't be proven one way or the other. Strictly speaking, it can't be proven that the universe existed before my birth. For example, any historical accounts of a time before my birth are still within my lifetime and are not proof of the existence of a time before my birth. That is, the historical account of a time can still exist even if the time itself doesn't.
    (my bold)

    And since nothing can be proven 100% ,that says very little.

    I wonder do they organize solipsism soirees these days?


    I should though admit to a weakness towards solipsism(that I am not proud of)
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJW View Post
    It's not a creationist argument. It's a philosophical idea that there is no objective reality beyond the mental constructs of our mind. It's important to note that it cannot be proven that there exists an objective reality because any evidence that one might have of an objective reality is still part of the mental constructs of our mind. Regardless of what creationists believe about history and science, they still believe in an objective reality.
    Forget about ancient Greek philosophy and Buddhism. Even Samuel Johnson have would have hit you on the head and uttered I refute it thus!
    And I don't care a #### about what creationists think.
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    Ox, I stand to be corrected but I think the gist is that you, the individual, are the creator. I think my mind has done a pretty good job constructing this universe to exist in. That would include everything, thus making you something I've created. For you personally, it's different. Your mind has constructed the reality you exist in, which includes me.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  17. #16  
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    The mind only builds up an image of reality.
    The eye projects an upside-down image on the retina and the brain reverses it.
    What we think is solid is virtually empty space.
    We have the delusion of being at the centre of everything.
    What created you is over 4 billion earth orbits, and an unimaginable amount of luck.
    Perhaps you are talking about the strong anthropic principle, but religion proves the mind is deluded.
    The mind can't handle the question of what created the creator or why the universe bothers to exist.
    So why should we consider the mind is of any value other than survival?
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KJW View Post
    It's not a creationist argument. It's a philosophical idea that there is no objective reality beyond the mental constructs of our mind. It's important to note that it cannot be proven that there exists an objective reality because any evidence that one might have of an objective reality is still part of the mental constructs of our mind. Regardless of what creationists believe about history and science, they still believe in an objective reality.
    Forget about ancient Greek philosophy and Buddhism.
    Given that solipsism is the topic of this thread, why should we forget about them?


    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    Even Samuel Johnson have would have hit you on the head and uttered I refute it thus!
    Although I do not claim that objective reality doesn't exist, perhaps you could provide an argument that objective reality does exist.


    Quote Originally Posted by ox View Post
    And I don't care a #### about what creationists think.
    It was you who first mentioned creationists. I was merely pointing out that solipsism is not a creationist viewpoint.
    There are no paradoxes in relativity, just people's misunderstandings of it.
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