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Thread: My thoughts on Hell

  1. #1 My thoughts on Hell 
    Forum Junior AndresKiani's Avatar
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    If there is a heaven and hell, I can't bare the thought of being in heaven, while other beings suffer in hell. I must rather burn with them than to watch them be burned for all of eternity.


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    But what if there isn't a heaven or a hell? What are the moral implications of that?


    I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around.
    Lucky me. Lucky mud.
    -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.-
    Cat's Cradle.
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    Here's a joke:

    An old Jewish man dies. He goes to heaven. He asks God all the things he has ever wanted to ask God, they talk for hours, they talk for days (They are living in timeless eternity after all). God gives him quite satisfactory answers. After a short, awkward silence, God looks at His watch (a Rolex) and announces that it is lunchtime.

    "While I get lunch ready, perhaps you'd like to have a look-see at hell?" - God asks.

    "Sure, why not?" The old man replies.

    So God parts some clouds with His fingertips and there is a window into hell. In hell, everyone is having a rip-roaring good time. There is dancing and drinking and gluttonous feasting. There's quite an orgy going on under the table.

    After some time God returns and hands the man a cold grilled cheese sandwich.

    "Here you are."

    The old man is outraged. "Is this it!? Is this heaven? Why, in hell they got roast turkey and fine wine and..."

    God shrugs.

    "It's so hard to cook for just the two of us."
    And what does the Lord require of you but to love justice, to be merciful and to walk humbly with Him?
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  5. #4  
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    If anything, I think the most just system is to implement a system were we feel all that we have done wrong to others and to see how our actions affected others.
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndresKiani View Post
    If anything, I think the most just system is to implement a system were we feel all that we have done wrong to others and to see how our actions affected others.
    Perhaps a preventative system where we train the still living to contemplate the consequences of actions to others?
    I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around.
    Lucky me. Lucky mud.
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  7. #6  
    flattened rat 甘肃人's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndresKiani View Post
    If anything, I think the most just system is to implement a system were we feel all that we have done wrong to others and to see how our actions affected others.
    Sure. Of course you are right. Just yesterday I said as much when I quoted The Bible (Shhh!!!) in Post #5 of this thread. That thread has got quite out of hand thanks to Phht!Demon and BobbityRob. (And to think they both fancy themselves as monitors! And to think I voted for both of them! ) I wish I could withdraw my support.

    The Eastern concept of karma is also pretty much what you are talking about, but I don't know why I should think of it as Eastern or Indian particularly. Everyone from Australian aborignes to post-modern atheistic German scientists sometimes believe - as the African-Americans phrase it: "What comes around, goes around."
    And what does the Lord require of you but to love justice, to be merciful and to walk humbly with Him?
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  8. #7  
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    ^^^ Lol don't get off subject, I wasn't pushing for a religious debate.

    Its amazing that people are so willing to see other's lives disintegrate but have theirs flourish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndresKiani View Post
    If there is a heaven and hell, I can't bare the thought of being in heaven, while other beings suffer in hell. I must rather burn with them than to watch them be burned for all of eternity.
    Did you know that the biblical hell was not created for people? The hell that is spoken of in the bible is a gulf between God, God’s creation (the universe) and those who exercised there free will against God. There are references in the bible that have been used to provide a general description of hell.


    I can not understand the person who would take the concept so lightly… Looking out over the universe and thinking about being eternally separated from it’s wonders only frightens me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTCethos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AndresKiani View Post
    If there is a heaven and hell, I can't bare the thought of being in heaven, while other beings suffer in hell. I must rather burn with them than to watch them be burned for all of eternity.
    Did you know that the biblical hell was not created for people? The hell that is spoken of in the bible is a gulf between God, God’s creation (the universe) and those who exercised there free will against God. There are references in the bible that have been used to provide a general description of hell.


    I can not understand the person who would take the concept so lightly… Looking out over the universe and thinking about being eternally separated from it’s wonders only frightens me.
    Yes. It has been said that perhaps all hell is -is infinite separation from God, i.e., goodness and light.
    And what does the Lord require of you but to love justice, to be merciful and to walk humbly with Him?
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  11. #10  
    Forum Bachelors Degree GoldenRatio's Avatar
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    For humans who are unable to control themselves laws & religion are about the only two motivators to act civilized twords their brethren.

    Religion is just an archaic form of control.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndresKiani View Post
    ^^^ Lol don't get off subject, I wasn't pushing for a religious debate.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenRatio View Post
    For humans who are unable to control themselves laws & religion are about the only two motivators to act civilized twords their brethren. Religion is just an archaic form of control.
    I guess you missed this, from the OP.
    And what does the Lord require of you but to love justice, to be merciful and to walk humbly with Him?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndresKiani View Post
    ^^^ Lol don't get off subject, I wasn't pushing for a religious debate.
    Then the point of your original post is lost on me as the merits of heaven & hell seem like a strong topic in religion.

    Perhaps a rattle would help you make your subject matter known?



    Back onto what I could guess is the topic or rather just whatever I feel like discussing since its not a religious topic.

    I see little difference between humans & other animals. Animals kill each other all the time in the kingdom. Normally over the same things we kill each other over. Territory, mates, resources. If leopards or monkeys had use for money or drugs they would kill each other for that too.

    The only diffence between us & lesser lifeforms is our ability to establish a better social order & punish people who murder. If there was no punishment, few would bother to follow social protocol. For most of human history, technology to catch & prosecute killers was severely limited. one could simply run away & if they were caught, it was simply a drumhead trial.

    Thus, religion. What better way to make people behave than promising them an eternal reward or punishment based on their actions. That an all seeing all knowing sky daddy will spank you if your naughty.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTCethos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AndresKiani View Post
    If there is a heaven and hell, I can't bare the thought of being in heaven, while other beings suffer in hell. I must rather burn with them than to watch them be burned for all of eternity.
    Did you know that the biblical hell was not created for people? The hell that is spoken of in the bible is a gulf between God, God’s creation (the universe) and those who exercised there free will against God. There are references in the bible that have been used to provide a general description of hell.


    I can not understand the person who would take the concept so lightly… Looking out over the universe and thinking about being eternally separated from it’s wonders only frightens me.
    thats death in a nutshell baby. When you die, whatever consciousness that makes you, will be eternally separated from the universe. Sorry you find it frightening, find a way to accept it as the laws of the universe will not break because you will it young padawan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenRatio View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AndresKiani View Post
    ^^^ Lol don't get off subject, I wasn't pushing for a religious debate.
    Then the point of your original post is lost on me as the merits of heaven & hell seem like a strong topic in religion.

    Perhaps a rattle would help you make your subject matter known?



    Back onto what I could guess is the topic or rather just whatever I feel like discussing since its not a religious topic.

    I see little difference between humans & other animals. Animals kill each other all the time in the kingdom. Normally over the same things we kill each other over. Territory, mates, resources. If leopards or monkeys had use for money or drugs they would kill each other for that too.

    The only diffence between us & lesser lifeforms is our ability to establish a better social order & punish people who murder. If there was no punishment, few would bother to follow social protocol. For most of human history, technology to catch & prosecute killers was severely limited. one could simply run away & if they were caught, it was simply a drumhead trial.

    Thus, religion. What better way to make people behave than promising them an eternal reward or punishment based on their actions. That an all seeing all knowing sky daddy will spank you if your naughty.
    Well no.. I didn't want this to become a "religious debate" on whether or not it exists. My point was hypothetical, because it saddens me that we humans are so ready to see others suffer while we prosper in all eternity. Its amazing.. Yeah biologically there really is no diff. between us and animals, I mean we are animals..

    However, we are also animals that are self aware and greater mental capabilities.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndresKiani View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenRatio View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AndresKiani View Post
    ^^^ Lol don't get off subject, I wasn't pushing for a religious debate.
    Then the point of your original post is lost on me as the merits of heaven & hell seem like a strong topic in religion.

    Perhaps a rattle would help you make your subject matter known?



    Back onto what I could guess is the topic or rather just whatever I feel like discussing since its not a religious topic.

    I see little difference between humans & other animals. Animals kill each other all the time in the kingdom. Normally over the same things we kill each other over. Territory, mates, resources. If leopards or monkeys had use for money or drugs they would kill each other for that too.

    The only diffence between us & lesser lifeforms is our ability to establish a better social order & punish people who murder. If there was no punishment, few would bother to follow social protocol. For most of human history, technology to catch & prosecute killers was severely limited. one could simply run away & if they were caught, it was simply a drumhead trial.

    Thus, religion. What better way to make people behave than promising them an eternal reward or punishment based on their actions. That an all seeing all knowing sky daddy will spank you if your naughty.
    Well no.. I didn't want this to become a "religious debate" on whether or not it exists. My point was hypothetical, because it saddens me that we humans are so ready to see others suffer while we prosper in all eternity. Its amazing.. Yeah biologically there really is no diff. between us and animals, I mean we are animals..

    However, we are also animals that are self aware and greater mental capabilities.
    Consider this, If some psycho broke into your loved ones home & slaughtered them. Would you not wish to have justice seen? Prison, death penalty, ect. Most people would. Lets assume that the killer was never caught/found. You could take solace in the idea of "well atleast he will burn in hell for his crimes"

    Its not a quest of prosperity its sorting out reward from punishment. If your good, you get paradise. If your bad you get hell.

    Though debating the merits of religion is like debating the merits of santa.

    I disagree about animals though. we are more evolved but we are not THAT evolved. We still slaughter each other daily & we have perfected the ways in which we can do it.

    I still believe without laws or some form of consequences for actions, most people would have nearly no moral center. Look at Katrina. All it took for people to devolve from civilization was a disaster & they turned into looting savages.

    A donkey is a rather stupid creature. Put a carrot on a stick & it will walk itself to death trying to eat it. However, even a donkey with its most basic of intellect can determine when there is no carrot.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenRatio View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AndresKiani View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenRatio View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AndresKiani View Post
    ^^^ Lol don't get off subject, I wasn't pushing for a religious debate.
    Then the point of your original post is lost on me as the merits of heaven & hell seem like a strong topic in religion.

    Perhaps a rattle would help you make your subject matter known?



    Back onto what I could guess is the topic or rather just whatever I feel like discussing since its not a religious topic.

    I see little difference between humans & other animals. Animals kill each other all the time in the kingdom. Normally over the same things we kill each other over. Territory, mates, resources. If leopards or monkeys had use for money or drugs they would kill each other for that too.

    The only diffence between us & lesser lifeforms is our ability to establish a better social order & punish people who murder. If there was no punishment, few would bother to follow social protocol. For most of human history, technology to catch & prosecute killers was severely limited. one could simply run away & if they were caught, it was simply a drumhead trial.

    Thus, religion. What better way to make people behave than promising them an eternal reward or punishment based on their actions. That an all seeing all knowing sky daddy will spank you if your naughty.
    Well no.. I didn't want this to become a "religious debate" on whether or not it exists. My point was hypothetical, because it saddens me that we humans are so ready to see others suffer while we prosper in all eternity. Its amazing.. Yeah biologically there really is no diff. between us and animals, I mean we are animals..

    However, we are also animals that are self aware and greater mental capabilities.
    Consider this, If some psycho broke into your loved ones home & slaughtered them. Would you not wish to have justice seen? Prison, death penalty, ect. Most people would. Lets assume that the killer was never caught/found. You could take solace in the idea of "well atleast he will burn in hell for his crimes"

    Its not a quest of prosperity its sorting out reward from punishment. If your good, you get paradise. If your bad you get hell.

    Though debating the merits of religion is like debating the merits of santa.

    I disagree about animals though. we are more evolved but we are not THAT evolved. We still slaughter each other daily & we have perfected the ways in which we can do it.

    I still believe without laws or some form of consequences for actions, most people would have nearly no moral center. Look at Katrina. All it took for people to devolve from civilization was a disaster & they turned into looting savages.

    A donkey is a rather stupid creature. Put a carrot on a stick & it will walk itself to death trying to eat it. However, even a donkey with its most basic of intellect can determine when there is no carrot.
    However,
    human psychology really saddens me that we can't move past our egocentric ideologies. Even when we look out into the universe we should already realize that our egos don't really mean much in the great picture.

    Yeah, I'm from a really bad place. I grew up extremely poor. I've experienced losing family and friends to senseless murder. Without getting into sob stories. It took me a while, but I forgive them. I realize that it could have also been me, cause I was on the other end of packing a gun and trying to survive as well. Its a cruel world out there and there is many reasons why we do things, sometimes there is no reason at all it just happens. You will never fully understand the other parties situation.. However, I generally believe that we are all good people at heart, and if given a chose in another time in another place we wouldn't commit those acts.
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenRatio View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AndresKiani View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenRatio View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AndresKiani View Post
    ^^^ Lol don't get off subject, I wasn't pushing for a religious debate.
    Then the point of your original post is lost on me as the merits of heaven & hell seem like a strong topic in religion.

    Perhaps a rattle would help you make your subject matter known?



    Back onto what I could guess is the topic or rather just whatever I feel like discussing since its not a religious topic.

    I see little difference between humans & other animals. Animals kill each other all the time in the kingdom. Normally over the same things we kill each other over. Territory, mates, resources. If leopards or monkeys had use for money or drugs they would kill each other for that too.

    The only diffence between us & lesser lifeforms is our ability to establish a better social order & punish people who murder. If there was no punishment, few would bother to follow social protocol. For most of human history, technology to catch & prosecute killers was severely limited. one could simply run away & if they were caught, it was simply a drumhead trial.

    Thus, religion. What better way to make people behave than promising them an eternal reward or punishment based on their actions. That an all seeing all knowing sky daddy will spank you if your naughty.
    Well no.. I didn't want this to become a "religious debate" on whether or not it exists. My point was hypothetical, because it saddens me that we humans are so ready to see others suffer while we prosper in all eternity. Its amazing.. Yeah biologically there really is no diff. between us and animals, I mean we are animals..

    However, we are also animals that are self aware and greater mental capabilities.
    Consider this, If some psycho broke into your loved ones home & slaughtered them. Would you not wish to have justice seen? Prison, death penalty, ect. Most people would. Lets assume that the killer was never caught/found. You could take solace in the idea of "well atleast he will burn in hell for his crimes"

    Its not a quest of prosperity its sorting out reward from punishment. If your good, you get paradise. If your bad you get hell.

    Though debating the merits of religion is like debating the merits of santa.

    I disagree about animals though. we are more evolved but we are not THAT evolved. We still slaughter each other daily & we have perfected the ways in which we can do it.

    I still believe without laws or some form of consequences for actions, most people would have nearly no moral center. Look at Katrina. All it took for people to devolve from civilization was a disaster & they turned into looting savages.

    A donkey is a rather stupid creature. Put a carrot on a stick & it will walk itself to death trying to eat it. However, even a donkey with its most basic of intellect can determine when there is no carrot.
    Referring to your Katrina analogy. Isn't it amazing how such presumably civilized creatures could revert to their primitive wild animalistic roots. It makes me lose respect for the human species.
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    Don't you ever wonder where all of the people living in this world today will go after they die if they don't believe in heaven or hell or even religion?

    I figure the best thing to do is try to live as long as possible and respect others who respect me along the way until I die.

    After all death is part of life.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
    Jimi Hendrix
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Don't you ever wonder where all of the people living in this world today will go after they die if they don't believe in heaven or hell or even religion?

    I figure the best thing to do is try to live as long as possible and respect others who respect me along the way until I die.

    After all death is part of life.

    Humans go to the same place that the spider I stepped on this morning goes to, no where.
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    Humans go to the same place that the spider I stepped on this morning goes to, no where.



    Where did the spider come from in the first place? Simple answer “no where”.


    Wait, that matter that composed the spider is on the bottom of your shoe. Where did all the complex chemistry come from that made up the spider? Simple answer “no where”.


    Wait, I know for a fact that complex molecules store information (DNA). Where did the DNA come from? Simple answer “no where”.


    Where did the information come from that was stored on the DNA? Simple answer “no where”.


    Wait, the universe we observe is decaying by the principle of entropy. So how did this information stored on DNA seem to exhibit “reduced entropy”.


    Wait, I can not answer that question…


    Just like you can not answer where humans are going when they die.
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTCethos View Post
    Humans go to the same place that the spider I stepped on this morning goes to, no where.



    Where did the spider come from in the first place? Simple answer “no where”.


    Wait, that matter that composed the spider is on the bottom of your shoe. Where did all the complex chemistry come from that made up the spider? Simple answer “no where”.


    Wait, I know for a fact that complex molecules store information (DNA). Where did the DNA come from? Simple answer “no where”.


    Where did the information come from that was stored on the DNA? Simple answer “no where”.


    Wait, the universe we observe is decaying by the principle of entropy. So how did this information stored on DNA seem to exhibit “reduced entropy”.


    Wait, I can not answer that question…


    Just like you can not answer where humans are going when they die.
    Yes yes, that is all very droll. My point being is humans think they are somehow more superior when it comes to death just because they are intelligent enough to contemplate their own mortality. the simple fact of the matter is humans are no more superior than other biological organism when it comes to death. You will die just the same as the spider & there will be no difference in where your "soul" spends its afterlife.
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndresKiani View Post
    If there is a heaven and hell, I can't bare the thought of being in heaven, while other beings suffer in hell. I must rather burn with them than to watch them be burned for all of eternity.
    If you can't bear watching suffering for all eternity then how would you know you're in heaven?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndresKiani View Post
    If there is a heaven and hell, I can't bare the thought of being in heaven, while other beings suffer in hell. I must rather burn with them than to watch them be burned for all of eternity.
    It is interesting that you are proposing that you would "choose to go to hell".

    The reason for this is that it has been argued that the gates of hell are "locked from the inside". The insinuation is that the people who go to hell choose to go there.

    As incredible as that sounds, your post supports that theory.

    Do not make that choice.

    If other people choose to go to hell, then it is not going to help them if you choose to go there yourself.

    The Catholic Church says that "final impenitance" is a sin that causes people to go to hell. If you think about it, a person who spends their life seeking God and trying to obey His will would regularly repent when he / she sins. Such a person would never refuse to repent.

    However, a person who spends his / her life refusing to repent might very well refuse to repent and choose to go to hell.

    Don't be that person.
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    ...

    I will remind myself to never again make a similar thread.
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