Thread: Er, could you run that by me again please.

Or: why doesn't this bonehead think before speaking?

Just came across this quote: “Many Euro-Atlantic countries have moved away from their roots, including Christian values… Policies are being pursued that place on the same level a multi-child family and a same-sex partnership, a faith in God and a belief in Satan.”
Um isn't it specifically those who have faith in "god" that are the ones that believe in Satan?

Yeah, there's probably some people that don't have "faith in god" and manage to believe that Satan exists, but, generally, isn't Satan a Biblical/ Islam/monotheist thing?
I always thought that, essentially, the two went together.

Meh, maybe I'm not as deluded clever as gospodin Putin.

"Russia has adopted new laws that ban homosexual propaganda and criminalizes the insulting of religious sensibilities".
I wonder if Russia ² will adopt laws criminalising the insulting of rational sensibilities.

2 or any other country for that matter.

I don't know...you seem to be looking for logical thought processes and critical thinking skills in the quote of a Christian Russian despot-wanna-be.

Maybe the translation between "belief in Satan" and "follower of Satan" didn't come across?

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

Maybe the translation between "belief in Satan" and "follower of Satan" didn't come across?

That's possible.
I can't find the quote in Russian - if, indeed, it was made in Russian ¹ - but every report I could find uses the word "belief".

1 And even if he had made it in English there's always the possibility that he mistranslated it.

He almost sounds like a Republican.
I think it is simple manipulation. Russia has developed a strong right wing conservative element. They believe in God and the Holiness of Mother Russia.
Excellent attitudes to foster if you think you might be looking at war soon.

Don't you put a belief in God on the same level as a belief in Satan? You just did, come to think of it.

It said "faith in god".
The Bible (among others) has Satan as an integral part of that religion.
Ergo: you follow the Bible you also have a belief in Satan.
It's the theists that have them "on the same level", not the atheists.

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

It said "faith in god".
The Bible (among others) has Satan as an integral part of that religion.
Ergo: you follow the Bible you also have a belief in Satan.
It's the theists that have them "on the same level", not the atheists.

Well, I didn't get the sense that they were referring to atheists, per se.

One is a god, the only entity with that status. So in the great scheme of things, Satan is kind of like the rest of us, a non god. I think Satan is more of a given than God in most minds. I mean we are evil because Satan, not God, is basically manipulating us to be less than honorable. Better to have faith in God because no one wants Satan to be top dog, that's too frightening a prospect. It is seemingly unacceptable in theist circles to think that God could be a creation of Satan..... that would be the only thing Satan can't trick us on, despite being able to influence us any time the little goat horned imp wants. Sort of like what he's doing right now to me as I type this post, dammit!

I had a good laugh with your post, good sense of humour.if there was an actual question and you wonder why a different culture can be different, then I can point to a common phenomenon that is projection, we sometime project the social environment we are used to onto other culture. thats why my girlfriend did not believe christian fundamentalist were real even if I told her it was not a comedy act but that there actually were adult people that really incredibly no joke believed the Bible's fairy tales were true.it appears many people in Russia have views that could be prevalent in the 1950s US, and still exist in the least progressive parts of the US (unless im mistaken a prominent republican opposed gays etc and all sorts of crazy stuff are said by GOPs in the US that are more outlandish than the tardyconservative things Putin is saying to cater to the conservative/old/rural russians ?

god vs satan probably meant that the west puts on par things conservative russians see as good with things they see as bad/immoral/against-traditions

It is troubling to consider that some people do not dwell on these issues for a moment. They believe blindly what they have been told. Indoctrinated belief structures of fear and the everlasting are ingrained as factual when they were and are never that. There is no known God just as there is no known Devil. Hell exists in your imagination as does heaven only if you let it. I do not. It is equally troubling that some people never consider them selves as worthy to question what has been said. In my sixty two years I have not found proofs of religious belief worthy of supporting.. No scientific test can be applied to a work of fiction. As a child I was told of the zero contradiction policy of biblical teachings.. I have found many such contradictions and thus dismiss the work as false. I feel and 'BELIEVE' that I am the lucky one, in that I question and doubt all of what I hear, see and am told of.. That builds a picture I trust as real and scientifically supported.

Doesent Putin realize that the more people are gay, the more girls the remaining men have available?
Also, fearing homosexuals = insecure people... and ignorant... definitely not rational.

World is moving backwards indeed. But I cant say the US is THAT much better. I watched an episode of the Sopranos where the mobsters kill one of their own for the sole reason he was gay. And all the characters in the show seemed to be very religious. I had to check if the production of the episode was 2006 or 1820.

I find it strange that countries that calls themselves democratic and claim to value freedom - tries to deny their people of the right of choosing who to love.
Like... if someone is gay... so what? Doesent affect me negatively in any way. I really, REALLY dont get why being homosexual in Y2K+ is something people tend to make a deal out of.