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Thread: You turn if you want to, the

  1. #1 You turn if you want to, the 
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    There is something queer going on. Have you ever come across a zombie waiting at a red light, three o'clock in the morning, not a vehicle in sight. As an Anglo American you can imagine how sickening it is for me to wait at a left turn stop light, when it is safe to proceed. I spoke to our MP Robin Walker a few years ago about changing The Law, so as to allow turning left at red lights, as is normal in most countries, his job is to make our lives comfortable, but he lives on another planet and is completely useless. What bugs me even more is when they put a filter arrow allowing vehicles to turn right in front of us, while we are forced to wait to turn left. The Ministry of Transport must be run by adolescents taking the proverbial, or is it a directive from the Ministry of Defences, psychological control unit, you've been Derren Browned. Reading some information about the colour red it may be that the old, thoughts, feelings, and imaginings of a sexual nature lead to lack and loss of intelligence, is responsible. Personally I have given up asking and drive through red lights when safe to do so, all the time. Can't wait for them to charge me. What an interesting case that would prove to be. Care to join the 'I'm not a zombie' contingent. There are loads of sensible things other countries do, why can't the British join in ! ?


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  3. #2  
    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flo345 View Post
    Personally I have given up asking and drive through red lights when safe to do so, all the time. Can't wait for them to charge me. What an interesting case that would prove to be.
    It won't be that interesting.
    You'll simply get a fine and points added to your license.


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    They will eventually come to their senses. I just wonder how much more of the planets resources will be wasted in the mean time. Let alone wasting others time, which I have heard, is the worst sin. Good luck combating your conscience.
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    How is it wasting resources? Modern cars (and concerned drivers) will turn the engine off when waiting at lights.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    I would welcome an adoption of the system that would allow a right turn on red when safe to do so. Unlike you I recognise that conversion to the system would not be a simple matter and would have safety implications, none of which you have recognised. So while I would support a proper study of the change, I would not support an emotional, agenda driven, rabble rousing demand for the change. My conscience is very comfortable with that stance.

    Welcome to the forum.
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    Hi there Flo a quick welcome to the forum first off. Now straight to the issue you are raising, yes in many situations there is indeed the opportunity to make a left turn safely even whilst the lights are still on red, what you will actually find is that in several places they do actually have a filter arrow system already built into the traffic lights themselves. What this does is allow the system to determine whether or not it is safe for motorists to make a left turn and at which time that is, obviously depending on traffic flow at the time.

    This however is not the only such instance as what is also becoming much more common is the addition of a permanent filter arrow added to many traffic lights, this is usually added after either some consultation or after examination in areas of congestion, the real point being that it's usually on an individual case by case basis with the safety aspect always being the overwhelming consideration.

    What would I suggest though is that certainly if you feel strongly that there really is a case for a filter arrow on a particular set of traffic lights then by all means go and make the case, I would say you are doing exactly the right thing by highlighting the particular issue. However until the issue has been officially decided and implemented then I would most unreservedly caution against taking the law into your own hands and this is just a quick way to losing your licence and or trouble with the police.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
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    anecdote:
    Long ago and far away, I pulled up to an intersection with a red light at 2-3 am, paused a moment, saw no other motorist on either road then drove through the intersection. Whereupon, a cop car which had been parked, came to life and with flashing lights encouraged me to stop. The cop described my offense, and I told him that I was the only driver in sight. He queried: "what about me?". To which I responded, "Yeh, but you were parked and I had thought that you were asleep". We laughed, and had a pleasant conversation. Then he bid me "Drive safely" and sent me on my way.

    Every moment of your life, you get to choose your course of action.
    The chat with the cop cost me more time than had I just waited for the light to change. But it was a pleasant encounter in the wee hours.
    No regrets, no ticket, no fine.
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    Thank you, Strange- because stopping and starting uses the most fuel, grossly so uphill. Now if the battery was to be charged only on the over run and/or while braking, stopping and restarting might be worthwhile. Don't forget the loses.
    John Galt- Safety implications, works everywhere else. A few years ago German research found that four out of five vehicular accidents involved someone infected with Toxoplasmosis, fifty years ago British surgeons reported that in six out of seven motorcycle deaths the victim was Toxo, as they call it. World estimates for toxo range from twenty to thirty percent of the population. We all pay four times more for our insurance because they don't do anything about this infection. Half of those diagnosed as schizophrenics in the UK are infected with toxo, and probably drove the other half mad. With five gallons of virgin water being made for every gallon burnt, all burning produces virgin water, we are forever increasing humidity, that is the reason for the higher winds. The increased weight of the atmosphere bends the earth's crust, and will so more and more. No question about it we have and are messing things up, big time. ( or the pussy cat is )
    Sculptor- yep, most coppers are fine. I have driven over 500,000 on the left, and more than 50,000 on the right and have had many similar experiences.
    Last edited by Flo345; January 21st, 2014 at 05:53 AM. Reason: clarification
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  10. #9  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flo345 View Post
    Thank you, Strange- because stopping and starting uses the most fuel
    Citation needed. Why would car manufacturers, who need to meet every tighter regulations for emission and economy, do it if it was counter-productive?

    A few years ago German research found that four out of five vehicular accidents involved someone infected with Toxoplasmosis, fifty years ago British surgeons reported that in six out of seven motorcycle deaths the victim was Toxo, as they call it.
    Can you provide citations for that research?

    How do those numbers compare with the general population? Or with people not involved in accidents? Correlation is not causation, etc.

    With five gallons of virgin water being made for every gallon burnt
    How is that possible? Even if the only thing produced were water (e.g. if you were burning pure liquid hydrogen), water is denser than the fuel and so must have less volume than the fuel.

    And what is "virgin water"?

    we are forever increasing humidity
    Citation needed.

    , that is the reason for the higher winds.
    Citation needed.

    The increased weight of the atmosphere bends the earth's crust, and will so more and more.
    This is getting more and more bonkers. Is it even worth asking for a citation for this?

    You seem to have skipped over the issue of CO2 ...
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    Started off quite well Flo, then you blew it !

    Re traffic lights: We always have to design for the worst drivers, not the best. As soon as we allow going through red traffic signals, I predict the accident rate will increase.

    Try this: If you look carefully on the road leading up to the lights, you will normally see three sets of rectangular detector loops, arranged in a herring bone pattern. When you approach the lights at oh dark oclock, don't stop at the white line by the lights, but stop on top of one of the loops. The traffic light computer will then "see" your car and might switch the lights for you.
    Last edited by One beer; January 23rd, 2014 at 07:15 AM. Reason: To put in the carriage returns the forum software sometimes fails to recognize!
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    Toxo is very well documented and discussed on radio four. Where do you think the energy comes from. Have you not seen the adverts for the new car which runs on ethanol and only produces water vapour. The heavier the fuel the more, 'water never before existing' is produced. If only we did have intelligent traffic light control systems, I have a feeling I've heard that NZ is implementing such. Don't you know about how atmospheric pressure effects tidal levels.
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  13. #12  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flo345 View Post
    Toxo is very well documented and discussed on radio four.
    So no evidence for it being a cause of accidents?

    Have you not seen the adverts for the new car which runs on ethanol and only produces water vapour.
    That didn't appear to be what you were talking about, as such cars are not currently widely available. Can you show how 5 gallons of water is produced by burning 1 gallon of ethanol?

    The heavier the fuel the more, 'water never before existing' is produced.
    You don't think water might have gone into making the ethanol?

    Don't you know about how atmospheric pressure effects tidal levels.
    I wouldn't be surprised. But, again, that isn't what you said.

    So you have zero evidence to support any of these bizarre claims?
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  14. #13  
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    Flo old bean;

    Either being on drugs, or pretending to be on drugs is no substitute for a personality.

    Also; have you even tried my traffic light suggestion?
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    Try starting with Wikipedia for toxo. You need to learn basic chemistry. Ever heard of a condensing boiler, watched water dribbling from an exhaust, before it warms up, stand alone LPG gas fires and all the condensation. Remember all those people killed on the east coast floods, many years ago. The primary causal factor, unusually high pressure over the North Sea. It doesn't only push the water down, it does the same to land. I have worked for the Met Office, part of the team researching clear air turbulence. I can't afford to waste any more time, need to get back to work on my book.
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  16. #15  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flo345 View Post
    You need to learn basic chemistry.
    That's the trouble. I studied chemistry, which is how I know that what you are saying cannot possibly be true.

    I can't afford to waste any more time
    Thank goodness for that.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    One beer, You know that alcohol turns humans into apes and less, but don't worry your hippo campus will get you back to your hideout, you will not remember anything, but it will get you home. Why do placebo's work.
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  18. #17  
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    Why is this not in Trash?
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  19. #18  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flo345 View Post
    Try starting with Wikipedia for toxo.
    I'll do your fact checking for you, as I'm feeling generous:
    individuals with latent toxoplasmosis have been reported to be at a 2.65 times increased risk to be involved in a traffic accident relative to the general population (Flegr et al., 2002), a result subsequently replicated by other groups (Flegr et al., 2009; Kocazeybeka et al., 2009; Yereli et al., 2006).
    Toxoplasma gondii infection, from predation to schizophrenia: can animal behaviour help us understand human behaviour?

    I'm not sure what that has to do with traffic lights though...
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    The increased weight of the atmosphere bends the earth's crust, and will so more and more.
    This is getting more and more bonkers. Is it even worth asking for a citation for this?
    Well, it is true that air pressure has a (small; i.e. millimetres) effect on the crust; for example:
    Crustal Deformation due to Atmospheric Pressure Loading in New Zealand : Journal of Geodetic Science
    (and many other papers)

    So I guess I should retract the "bonkers" bit. (Although, maybe it is bonkers to think that (a) this has anything to do with traffic lights and (b) it is in any way significant.)
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flo345 View Post
    fifty years ago British surgeons reported that in six out of seven motorcycle deaths the victim was Toxo
    Did you also note that, in the vast majority of cases 1, fatal motorcycle accidents are usually the fault of a car driver?
    How does that help your argument?

    1 I forget the exact figure but it's something like 7 out of 10 (where two vehicles are involved).
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  22. #21  
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    What a strange coincidence. Re toxo, I am only repeating what I have learnt from scientists on radio four, purporting to know, and documentation from such as Professor Robert Polansky. It is estimated that one in five people in the UK are infected. The reason why this is ten percent less than the one in three for ww estimates, is because cats in the UK are fed cooked meat. It causes rash (action without thought) behaviour, males are grumpy, females gregarious. I wonder if strange has it, he has behaved rashly, and is grumpy. Some anthropologists are now saying that cannibals are more intelligent than we because they get rid of the trouble makers. It was found that other creatures infect us with brain altering diseases. The researchers looking into BSE, CJD found over three hundred different diseases when they examined the brains, stored at Ealing Hospital, of three thousand patients who had died from dementia. They also discovered in the medical records, going back over two hundred years in the case of Seventh- day Adventists, and other vegetarians, no cases of dementia. The prof giving the lecture concluded that dementia is a meat eaters illness. Have you not heard of the strict vegetarian Indians who suffer no disease and live to what scientists have for a few years now been stating is our natural life span, one hundred and twenty years.
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  23. #22  
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    Moderator Warning: A cursory examination of your posts, Flo345, suggests you talk a lot of bollocks. This may be a faulty impression. To effectively counteract this impression please provide appropriate citations to substantiate assertions that I am sure you know are controversial.
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  24. #23  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flo345 View Post
    They also discovered in the medical records, going back over two hundred years in the case of Seventh- day Adventists, and other vegetarians, no cases of dementia. The prof giving the lecture concluded that dementia is a meat eaters illness. Have you not heard of the strict vegetarian Indians who suffer no disease and live to what scientists have for a few years now been stating is our natural life span, one hundred and twenty years.
    Are extreme gullibility, disordered thought and lack of critical thinking known symptoms of toxoplasmosis?
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    I can make a right turn on a red light if it is safe and not posted that I can't.
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    I have worked for the Met Office, part of the team researching clear air turbulence. I can't afford to waste any more time, need to get back to work on my book.
    As a commercial airline pilot, I would love to be able to 'see' or predict clear air turbulence, so more power to your elbow. Although you say you 'worked' - i.e. past tense - so I assume you're not at the MET office now?

    I look forward to your book, what is it about? If it's written the same way that you write your posts, it should be a very entertaining although mystifying read !


    OB


    Hi babe. We aren't allowed to turn on a red light in the UK. If we were, I think there would be a lot of accidents!

    OB
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    I can make a right turn on a red light if it is safe and not posted that I can't.
    Also true in Iowa.
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  28. #27  
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    My understanding is that since the 1980s a right turn on red has been legal throughout the US unless specifically prohibited, except for New York (I think city rather than state) where it is allowed only when specifically permitted.
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    ...
    Hi babe. We aren't allowed to turn on a red light in the UK. If we were, I think there would be a lot of accidents!
    But, then again, you folks drive on the wrong side of the road.
    So, is a left turn on red permitted in the UK?
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  30. #29  
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    One beer says very clearly "We are not allowed to turn on a red light in the UK." That's any red light, in any direction. Not permitted. Verbotten. Don't do it.
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  31. #30  
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    thanx John
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  32. #31  
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    Because I drive a lot in Texas - indeed that's where I learned to drive many moons ago - I have to consciously not turn left on a red light in the UK. My inclination is to treat it as a Give Way sign. (Yield in acros-the-pond-speak.)
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  33. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flo345 View Post
    ... hippo campus ...
    I've always thought it was a waste of taxpayer money to grant degrees to wildlife.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Quote Originally Posted by One beer View Post
    I have worked for the Met Office, part of the team researching clear air turbulence. I can't afford to waste any more time, need to get back to work on my book.
    As a commercial airline pilot, I would love to be able to 'see' or predict clear air turbulence, so more power to your elbow. Although you say you 'worked' - i.e. past tense - so I assume you're not at the MET office now?

    I look forward to your book, what is it about? If it's written the same way that you write your posts, it should be a very entertaining although mystifying read !


    OB


    Hi babe. We aren't allowed to turn on a red light in the UK. If we were, I think there would be a lot of accidents!

    OB

    I am sorry One Beer, maybe you can learn to drive on the RIGHT side of the road!! *ducking* and getting a *chuckle*
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  35. #34  
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    Hi Babe, I already can ! I have driven in the USA. Before that I spent some time driving and operating a UK satellite truck in France, Italy, Switzerland, Austria and Germany. They ALL drive on the wrong side of the road ! :-) Not only that, but I was driving a right hand drive vehicle on the right side of the road - which is doubly difficult, especially at junctions and toll booths !! I think that for safety a red light should always mean stop, to avoid any mistakes or confusion. The turn on red thing should instead be a flashing amber or something to signify that you may go if it is safe to do so - like on a pelican crossing. OB
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  36. #35  
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    I think they've solved this problem quite well here.. the traffic lights are turned off during night hours
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  37. #36  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Then there is the Italian joke about a businessman visiting Sicily. He takes a taxi to go out for a meal in the evening and is surprised that the driver accelerates to go through red lights but approaches green lights cautiously, looking both ways at the junction. He asks the driver why he is so careful at a green light, "Hey, you don't know what sort of crazy idiot is going to jump the red light!"

    (Except, of course, it isn't a joke.)
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    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    I'm led to believe that a lot of water evaporates from trees. Just as well they are chopping them down, or humidity would have gone through the roof by now ! ? My postman says, they will carry on until there are none left.
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  39. #38  
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    Clueless nonsense, please stop.
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  40. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flo345 View Post
    I'm led to believe that a lot of water evaporates from trees. Just as well they are chopping them down, or humidity would have gone through the roof by now ! ? My postman says, they will carry on until there are none left.
    On the Mainland, I live in the redwods......you cut one down you plant one to take its place.

    Trees are a very important part of our ecology.
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  41. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flo345 View Post
    I'm led to believe that a lot of water evaporates from trees. Just as well they are chopping them down, or humidity would have gone through the roof by now ! ? My postman says, they will carry on until there are none left.
    You have not been on the forum long enough for members to judge whether or not that was skillfully applied irony, gross ignorance, or anti-social trolling. It would be helpful if your future posts were clearer in intent. Failing that you may find yourself receiving an official warning, or suspension.
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