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Thread: Jehovah's witnesses

  1. #1  
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    Allow me to explain how something works with certain religions and people: Unlike normally, when you see a religious person on these forums or in real life, some people cannot comprehend the possibility that the bible was written by man.
    Rather than realizing the utmost lack of evidence put forward for the assumption the bible has any truth whatsoever (some stories are proven to a degree, but like all mythologies, the stories mostly have belief bias).

    This is part of the psychology problem that religions present. When a religion, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, puts forward a book and focuses on certain aspects of that book alone (I've never seen them use scriptures that talk about violence, killing, etc. in fact, they pretty much avoid it), and act as though these people existed without doubt...well, the believers become too faithful. They are soon incapable of skepticism, since they have it subconsciously implemented within their minds that the bible is perfectly accurate and true, has no contradictions, etc.

    Arguing on the basis that the bible has contradictions, or that it was written by man, cannot be comprehended by most of them. Most replies amount to "you're lying, embrace the truth" rather than any amount of evidence put forward.


    Similarly, this is why trying to teach them about evolution doesn't work. They have their "truths" implanted from birth. and, if they weren't a JW originally, they pretty much had it forged in their minds. You can't argue with them on any level, since they'll "politely" pass it off as a lie and keep preaching their view. Hence the tactic "but we have an alternative called the bible."
    It's really quite the setup, and many psychologists agree that JW's have the most psychological problems (probably because of how things work).

    While my messages conveyed so far, probably give out a vibe of "hate," I'm actually rather deeply concerned (after all, I study psychology in my spare time). Here are some links:
    http://www.premier1.net/~raines/mental.html
    http://www.virushead.net/exjw.html
    http://www.freeminds.org/psych/openmind.htm

    Ah yes, and while googling...irony: http://members.aol.com/beyondjw/atheism.htm

    Really, the only thing I find sad here is that no matter how much you speak to a JW (I should know, my family is composed mostly of them), they hold onto their beliefs. Note: Belief. Not evidence for those beliefs, just belief.
    Basically, to "cure" A JW, you'd have to teach them how to think again.


    The music the JW's play, for example, has a hypnotism effect of sorts. It helps people remember things better, but also places the information FIRMLY in their minds. With three songs every other meeting, it's quite obvious the result.

    So, in closing, I think we should just give up here. Truth probably will ignore the predominant amount of what I say here, or continue with his preaching in predictable fashion, but perhaps most of you here will understand WHY he does so. It isn't free will, it's mental conditioning.

    EDIT as an example which some may have noticed, speak to a JW in real life and attempt to seriously question their beliefs at the very base. For example, "prove the bible is written by god." Some will attempt to cite prophecies, but you can continue to ask for evidence that they happened before the writing.

    Somewhere down the line, depending on the JW, you'll end up hitting a chord, and they react just like a Dependant person who has his dependency threatened. Like someone clinging to their significant other, and said other attempts to leave them. The reaction tends to be severe disbelief, and falling back on common replies.
    While it isn't exactly a dependency disorder, these are the similarities. More often than not you'll find a JW continually quoting bible scriptures, even if you point out that you can't prove the bible was written by god, using the bible (since it's a logical fallacy).


     

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  3. #2  
    Forum Professor captaincaveman's Avatar
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    those links are interesting reads, the fourth ones really written well.

    I always worry about a religion/cult that mentions being careful of use of the internet incase of coming into contact with apostates of the said religion/cult. Is there a worry that someones mind may be swayed away from the conditioning of that group, seems a bit controlling for my liking


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  4. #3  
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    I moved it to a separate thread, since it dawned on me that's a better placement for such an off-topic post. Here we can discuss the Jehovah's witnesses as a whole, rather than having fragmented posts all over the place in an all out "war" of sorts.

    Okay? Okay. :P
     

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    As a jehovahs witness ive used scriptures and arguement my own opinions and beliefs well. Clearly this has caused anger for you jeremy.

    Most of the accusations youve made could be labelled at yourself. Maybe ask yourself why do you have such a dislike of a small religious group that stays close to the teachings of the bible.

    What the above thead seems to say is that if me as a jehovahs witness dont turn away from our religion and becaome athiest anti god evolutionists then we are crazy and brainwashed.

    The strangest thing about any athiest is that the way they hate god and ridicule religious people is that its just the same as the way religious fanatics ridicule non believers. You are the same. A fanatic is a fanatic.

    The bible states that there are two groups pof people on earth. Those who love god and worldy people. The nationality or religion, non religion of these people is unimportant. Either you accept the truth or you dont, and often follow any unscientific lie that is made.

    If you hate jehovahs witnesses then fair enough, but dont use forums to channel youre personal hatred.

    Forums are for debate not religious prejudice.
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Professor captaincaveman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    As a jehovahs witness ive used scriptures and arguement my own opinions and beliefs well. Clearly this has caused anger for you jeremy.

    Most of the accusations youve made could be labelled at yourself. Maybe ask yourself why do you have such a dislike of a small religious group that stays close to the teachings of the bible.

    What the above thead seems to say is that if me as a jehovahs witness dont turn away from our religion and becaome athiest anti god evolutionists then we are crazy and brainwashed.

    The strangest thing about any athiest is that the way they hate god and ridicule religious people is that its just the same as the way religious fanatics ridicule non believers. You are the same. A fanatic is a fanatic.

    The bible states that there are two groups pof people on earth. Those who love god and worldy people. The nationality or religion, non religion of these people is unimportant. Either you accept the truth or you dont, and often follow any unscientific lie that is made.

    If you hate jehovahs witnesses then fair enough, but dont use forums to channel youre personal hatred.

    Forums are for debate not religious prejudice.

    just a couple of points to pick up on


    Most of the accusations youve made could be labelled at yourself. Maybe ask yourself why do you have such a dislike of a small religious group that stays close to the teachings of the bible.
    A small religious group who label all non believers of that group(eg athiests and other religions people) as followers of satan would result in a dislike of said group as its pure intolerence of a wide range of views and to blindly saying only you speak the truth is frankly arrogant

    What the above thead seems to say is that if me as a jehovahs witness dont turn away from our religion and becaome athiest anti god evolutionists then we are crazy and brainwashed.

    The strangest thing about any athiest is that the way they hate god and ridicule religious people is that its just the same as the way religious fanatics ridicule non believers. You are the same. A fanatic is a fanatic
    secondly athiests cannot hate god as they disbelieve in god in the first place


    This kind of absolute speak is usually associated with the worse organisations in the world, I dislike muslims and j'hoovers beliefs and downright arrogance. I dont dislike followers of said religions but their theism.

    I disbelieve in god, but respect certain religious groups rights to practice their beliefs and believe in whoever they wish but disagree with the forcing of their beliefs and ideologys on people who care not for God and all the B*llshit that comes with these religions
    CAPTAINCAVEMAN


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  7. #6  
    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
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    need I say more...?

    http://members.aol.com/beyondjw/1975.htm
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  8. #7  
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    just to add to that william

    1907: Armageddon will culminate in the year 1914.[52]
    1917: In 1918, God would destroy churches "wholesale" and church members by the millions.[53]
    1922-1923: The resurrection of the dead would occur in 1925.[54] In preparation for the 1925 date, the Watchtower Society acquired a property in California, and built a mansion on it. The property was to house people such as Abraham, Moses, David, and Samuel, who would be resurrected to life in 1925.
    1924: As of 1926, there would be no more deaths. Witnesses were encouraged to add a room to their houses, and get an undertaker to decorate it, since undertakers would be out of work. Witnesses could then call Abraham's office in Jerusalem and request that a deceased relative be brought back to life. These would subsequently appear in the new room.[55]
    1938: In 1938, Armaggedon was too close for marriage or child bearing.[56]
    1941: There were only "months" remaining until Armageddon.[57]
    1969: Human existence would not last long enough for young people to grow old; the world system would end "in a few years". Young Witnesses were encouraged not to bother pursuing tertiary education for this reason.[58]
    1969: Christ's thousand-year reign would begin in 1975.[59]
    1984: There were "many indications" that "the end" was closer than the end of the 20th century
    CAPTAINCAVEMAN


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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    As a jehovahs witness ive used scriptures and arguement my own opinions and beliefs well. Clearly this has caused anger for you jeremy.
    You know, it's rather arrogant of you to assume you're even worth the energy spent on such an emotion. I stated my emotion, my emotion is one of deep concern. The fact you state otherwise anyway, says something. Can you guess what it is?

    Using the bible to prove god, when the bible was written by god, is a circular fallacy. That's like 5000 years from now, someone takes something I write and tries to use it to prove the writer existed. It can't work. Since many writers use different names.

    Most of the accusations youve made could be labelled at yourself. Maybe ask yourself why do you have such a dislike of a small religious group that stays close to the teachings of the bible.
    How? My "accusations" are based on psychology. I doubt you know jack about psychology, and thus cannot properly "label" anything at anybody.

    And at least this time you didn't use "hate" (apparently your favorite word). But I've stated why I "dislike" them, your mind apparently isn't registering any of my objections.
    Furthermore, "staying close to the teachings of the bible"? I'm sorry, but there are thousands of "teachings" and all of them disagree. saying your teaching is true is like saying that you know where a penny is under a billion cups that were randomly arranged.

    (I know, antecedents don't provide proof, but it's proper in this case.)

    What the above thead seems to say is that if me as a jehovahs witness dont turn away from our religion and becaome athiest anti god evolutionists then we are crazy and brainwashed.
    Umm...no...what the above thread explains is a JW's psychological state and why it's concerning. Many atheists have different psychological problems, they aren't perfect either, but the focus was on the fact that almost ALL JW's carry those traits.

    Turning away is not the objective. Paying attention to evidence is. You have, thus far, refused to click on any of the links and evidences provided. If you had read them, your posts would have most likely included acknowledgments.

    Furthermore, your labels "crazy and brainwashed" only serve to further your lack of understanding when it comes to psychology. The JW's are "brainwashed," but technically everybody is "crazy" in some way. As well as "brainwashed," but I use it in a severe term.

    The strangest thing about any athiest is that the way they hate god and ridicule religious people is that its just the same as the way religious fanatics ridicule non believers. You are the same. A fanatic is a fanatic.
    How can we hate something we don't believe exists? Think about that for a minute.

    No, a fanatic is someone who bombs places for allah or some such nonsense. A skeptic is someone who doesn't tolerate ignorance of the freaking obvious and easily researchable (well, at least this skeptic. :P).

    The bible states that there are two groups pof people on earth. Those who love god and worldy people. The nationality or religion, non religion of these people is unimportant. Either you accept the truth or you dont, and often follow any unscientific lie that is made.
    FACT: Those "lies" you always mention are FULLY SCIENTIFIC. the scientists mentioned in the awakes and other literature tend to be the LEAST credible you'll ever see (try googling some of them! Or on wiki). Once again, gross ignorance to the facts.

    If you hate jehovahs witnesses then fair enough, but dont use forums to channel youre personal hatred.

    Forums are for debate not religious prejudice.
    Once again, the word hate. For someone who loves so much, you use that word a lot. We do not "hate" the JW's. We are pointing out facts and debating them. Stop twisting things around in your mind so it seems like we're attacking you with racism.
     

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    You know, it's rather arrogant of you to assume you're even worth the energy spent on such an emotion.
    Not worth the energy, so you decided to create a thread to attack jehovahs witnesses and rage lies and half truths about us.

    When you turn debate into personal insults you have already lost any debate. If i can reamin mature and keep showing evidence for my views while you result in tedius insults then im showing the truth in the bible and those who follow it.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    just to add to that william

    1907: Armageddon will culminate in the year 1914.[52]
    1917: In 1918, God would destroy churches "wholesale" and church members by the millions.[53]
    1922-1923: The resurrection of the dead would occur in 1925.[54] In preparation for the 1925 date, the Watchtower Society acquired a property in California, and built a mansion on it. The property was to house people such as Abraham, Moses, David, and Samuel, who would be resurrected to life in 1925.
    1924: As of 1926, there would be no more deaths. Witnesses were encouraged to add a room to their houses, and get an undertaker to decorate it, since undertakers would be out of work. Witnesses could then call Abraham's office in Jerusalem and request that a deceased relative be brought back to life. These would subsequently appear in the new room.[55]
    1938: In 1938, Armaggedon was too close for marriage or child bearing.[56]
    1941: There were only "months" remaining until Armageddon.[57]
    1969: Human existence would not last long enough for young people to grow old; the world system would end "in a few years". Young Witnesses were encouraged not to bother pursuing tertiary education for this reason.[58]
    1969: Christ's thousand-year reign would begin in 1975.[59]
    1984: There were "many indications" that "the end" was closer than the end of the 20th century
    Very good!

    Truth1010, exactly how many 'truths' do you guys have? And what will be the truth in another 10 years?

    Your organization has lost all credibility I'm afraid. I cannot see how you can still maintain that you own the truth. I think you're fooling yourself. You would be much better off leaving the JWs ASAP.

    Cheers,
    and I hope you someday see the light and truly find the truth,
    william
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    You know, it's rather arrogant of you to assume you're even worth the energy spent on such an emotion.
    Not worth the energy, so you decided to create a thread to attack jehovahs witnesses and rage lies and half truths about us.

    When you turn debate into personal insults you have already lost any debate. If i can reamin mature and keep showing evidence for my views while you result in tedius insults then im showing the truth in the bible and those who follow it.
    NONE of them are lies! You haven't even pointed *OUT* any lies! All you've done is scream "lies" without any proof whatsoever, then say "bible!" a lot to balance it out.
    I did not create this thread to "attack" them so much as bring the information into one thread. You have, so far, only thrown out the above message.

    If you are going to debate, then provide proof. So far you have only vehemently opposed to everything we say, which only PROVES my original points. Try doing something FOR your cause, instead of continually AGAINST it.

    EDIT: to add to the above, current JW claims consist of "the end is near" rather than any specific date. they HAVE learned from past mistakes, but they've been saying "the end is near" for over 30 or 40 years.
     

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    I havent got the time to answer every lie that is posted about gods people. But for sensible people who want to learn, here this may help.

    1. Jesus started one true Christian religion. So today there must be just one body, or group, of true worshipers of Jehovah God. (John 4:23, 24; Ephesians 4:4, 5) The Bible teaches that only a few people are on the narrow road to life.—Matthew 7:13, 14.

    2. The Bible foretold that after the death of the apostles, wrong teachings and unchristian practices would slowly come into the Christian congregation. Men would draw away believers to follow them instead of Christ. (Matthew 7:15, 21-23; Acts 20:29, 30) That is why we see so many different religions that claim to be Christian. How can we identify true Christians?

    3. The most outstanding mark of true Christians is that they have real love among themselves. (John 13:34, 35) They are not taught to think that they are better than people of other races or skin color. Neither are they taught to hate people from other countries. (Acts 10:34, 35) So they do not share in wars. True Christians treat one another as brothers and sisters.—1 John 4:20, 21.

    4. Another mark of true religion is that its members have a deep respect for the Bible. They accept it as the Word of God and believe what it says. (John 17:17; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17) They treat God's Word as being more important than human ideas or customs. (Matthew 15:1-3, 7-9) They try to live by the Bible in their everyday life. So they do not preach one thing and then practice another.—Titus 1:15, 16.

    5. The true religion must also honor God's name. (Matthew 6:9) Jesus made God's name, Jehovah, known to others. True Christians must do the same. (John 17:6, 26; Romans 10:13, 14) Who are the people in your community that tell others about God's name?

    6. True Christians must preach about God's Kingdom. Jesus did so. He always talked about the Kingdom. (Luke 8:1) He commanded his disciples to preach this same message in all the earth. (Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20) True Christians believe that only God's Kingdom will bring true peace and security to this earth.—Psalm 146:3-5.

    7. Jesus' disciples must be no part of this wicked world. (John 17:16) They do not get involved in the world's political affairs and social controversies. They avoid the harmful conduct, practices, and attitudes that are common in the world. (James 1:27; 4:4) Can you identify a religious group in your community that has these marks of true Christianity?

    The key points above show that there is one religion and jehoavsh witnesses are that one group.

    Ps. you can use any bible to look up the above scriptures. Try it at home when you have time.
     

  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    I havent got the time to answer every lie that is postsed about gods people people post. But for sensible people who want to learn, here this may help.
    Either comment on what you claim is a lie, or don't say it's a lie. There isn't a time limit, you can write it slowly if you want.

    And once again, the famous fallacy of using the bible to prove god or anything relating to god. Let me explain this for even slow people:

    You can't use a book someone supposedly wrote to prove they exist, and in turn prove their ideals are correct. You have to prove they existed first, and prove that book is something they wrote, before you can even begin to try.

    I'll let someone else give a point by point rebuttal. I'm sick of it.
     

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    The 7 points above are true, youre refusal to debate them im guessing is a acceptance of that.

    So, ive proven jehovahs people to be indeed the meek of the earth.

    Now, all you guys have to do is prove another religion to be true, evolution to be true and that god doesnt exist to be true.

    I wish you the best.
     

  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    I havent got the time to answer every lie that is posted about gods people. But for sensible people who want to learn, here this may help.

    1. Jesus started one true Christian religion. So today there must be just one body, or group, of true worshipers of Jehovah God. (John 4:23, 24; Ephesians 4:4, 5) The Bible teaches that only a few people are on the narrow road to life.—Matthew 7:13, 14.

    2. The Bible foretold that after the death of the apostles, wrong teachings and unchristian practices would slowly come into the Christian congregation. Men would draw away believers to follow them instead of Christ. (Matthew 7:15, 21-23; Acts 20:29, 30) That is why we see so many different religions that claim to be Christian. How can we identify true Christians?

    3. The most outstanding mark of true Christians is that they have real love among themselves. (John 13:34, 35) They are not taught to think that they are better than people of other races or skin color. Neither are they taught to hate people from other countries. (Acts 10:34, 35) So they do not share in wars. True Christians treat one another as brothers and sisters.—1 John 4:20, 21.

    4. Another mark of true religion is that its members have a deep respect for the Bible. They accept it as the Word of God and believe what it says. (John 17:17; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17) They treat God's Word as being more important than human ideas or customs. (Matthew 15:1-3, 7-9) They try to live by the Bible in their everyday life. So they do not preach one thing and then practice another.—Titus 1:15, 16.

    5. The true religion must also honor God's name. (Matthew 6:9) Jesus made God's name, Jehovah, known to others. True Christians must do the same. (John 17:6, 26; Romans 10:13, 14) Who are the people in your community that tell others about God's name?

    6. True Christians must preach about God's Kingdom. Jesus did so. He always talked about the Kingdom. (Luke 8:1) He commanded his disciples to preach this same message in all the earth. (Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20) True Christians believe that only God's Kingdom will bring true peace and security to this earth.—Psalm 146:3-5.

    7. Jesus' disciples must be no part of this wicked world. (John 17:16) They do not get involved in the world's political affairs and social controversies. They avoid the harmful conduct, practices, and attitudes that are common in the world. (James 1:27; 4:4) Can you identify a religious group in your community that has these marks of true Christianity?

    The key points above show that there is one religion and jehoavsh witnesses are that one group.

    Ps. you can use any bible to look up the above scriptures. Try it at home when you have time.
    Exactly as has been said above. The bible cant be Proof or anything. every religion in the world says their scriptures are the word of god. Millions of people are wrong one way or another.

    At least science works on facts and experiments that can be seen in the real world for people to make up their own mind

    Science works from many books and so have many inputs from many different people(based on observable facts)not just on one book that cannot be observed or replicated in the real word
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    The 7 points above are true, youre refusal to debate them im guessing is a acceptance of that.

    So, ive proven jehovahs people to be indeed the meek of the earth.

    Now, all you guys have to do is prove another religion to be true, evolution to be true and that god doesnt exist to be true.

    I wish you the best.
    Turn that around: Since you refuse to debate what I say, you accept it's true and renounce your faith.
     

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    Clearly caveman you dont agree with me. Thats fair enough.

    You wont accept the bible, scientific knowledge or personal wisdom. Denying these clear truths is foolish.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Clearly caveman you dont agree with me. Thats fair enough.

    You wont accept the bible, scientific knowledge or personal wisdom. Denying these clear truths is foolish.
    I've described why numerous times. Read up, I wont repeat myself.
     

  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Clearly caveman you dont agree with me. Thats fair enough.

    You wont accept the bible, scientific knowledge or personal wisdom. Denying these clear truths is foolish.

    How do i not accept scientific knowledge? This is the only thing i do accept(but not blindly)
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    Please show me evidence of one species reproducing another separate species.

    It is clearly not possible. Science has shown that.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Please show me evidence of one species reproducing another separate species.

    It is clearly not possible. Science has shown that.

    Yes science has shown that doesn't happen in one generation hence the name "evolution"

    small variations in mutated genes that get passed down(and this happens more often than you realise, i know i make money out of it)and the mutations most suited to the enviroment flourish and this process over millions of years produces different species

    If you thought one species gave birth to another and thats what evolution is(and how it reads from the above comment) then id question what you are being told in the watchtower
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    Caveman, that's a common misconception most religious people have. They think evolution means "it just needed it so it popped it out" (my grandmothers knowledge of evolution. XD) And since most of my attempts to provide evidence have been ignored, I throw in the towel for tonight.
     

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    Evolution had to actually happen for it to have happened. Putting it off and claiming that there would be small mutaions over millions of years is proven to not have happened.

    Genetic mutations would show themselves physicly, therefore we would see a different species at some stage. When this different species was formed who exactly would it mate with?

    Evolution is vague and in complete. I know it didnt happen, but scientists who are serious will want actual evidence for evolution rather than reteric or anti god sentiment.
     

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    Your seven points sound like every church (Christian and non-Christian) I have ever visited and I have visited hundreds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    3. The most outstanding mark of true Christians is that they have real love among themselves. (John 13:34, 35) They are not taught to think that they are better than people of other races or skin color. Neither are they taught to hate people from other countries. (Acts 10:34, 35) So they do not share in wars. True Christians treat one another as brothers and sisters.—1 John 4:20, 21.
    It is easy to be at peace with people who agree with you. It is even easier when you simply throw out anyone who disagrees or fails to abide by a strict set of rules. You are taught tho think you are better than people of other religions, therefore there are Christian groups who do a better job at this "love criterion" than the JWs. There is a consensus of Christians who agree what are the essentials of Christian doctrine and therefore consider each other brothers and sisters in Christ even though they do not agree on every detail of doctrine and practice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    4. Another mark of true religion is that its members have a deep respect for the Bible. They accept it as the Word of God and believe what it says. (John 17:17; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17) They treat God's Word as being more important than human ideas or customs. (Matthew 15:1-3, 7-9) They try to live by the Bible in their everyday life. So they do not preach one thing and then practice another.—Titus 1:15, 16.
    The greatest respect is to preserve its integrity rather than changing it to fit your doctrines. In the church services I attend the pastor reads the whole Bible from cover to cover, picking up each Sunday where He left off. We believe that the Bible represents the word of God so that God can speak for Himself without an interpretor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    5. The true religion must also honor God's name. (Matthew 6:9) Jesus made God's name, Jehovah, known to others. True Christians must do the same. (John 17:6, 26; Romans 10:13, 14) Who are the people in your community that tell others about God's name?
    Yes but God's name is YHWH, why do you change it? Just because you like the sound of Jehovah better? And this name came from God's reply to Moses' demand for a name in Exodus 3:13-15 'Then Moses said to God, "Indeed, when I come to the Children of Israel and say to them "'The God of your fathers has sent me to you"' and they say to me, "'What is His name?"' what shall I say to them?" And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, '"I AM has sent me to you.'" " Moreover God said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: '"The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations"' " '

    This is an interesting passage. At first it seems in God response "I AM WHO I AM" that God is saying He has no need of a name. After all, there is only one God, so what need does He have for a name. But then in the later part he calls his name a memorial, only it is unclear whether He is talking about YHWH (I AM) or whether He is talking about being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It is funny because it is the second that sounds more like a memorial.

    Well, how about the New Testament? Does Jesus ever use the name YHWH? The closest He comes to this was in John 8:58, when He said "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." Jesus uses the word "father", even when teaching His disciples how to pray. What we see throughout the New Testament instead it that it is Jesus name that is to be above all other names. Phillipians 2:8-10, "And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every other name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and those under the earth, and that every tounge should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    6. True Christians must preach about God's Kingdom. Jesus did so. He always talked about the Kingdom. (Luke 8:1) He commanded his disciples to preach this same message in all the earth. (Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20) True Christians believe that only God's Kingdom will bring true peace and security to this earth.—Psalm 146:3-5.
    Maybe you think He was lying, but Jesus said to Pilate, John 18:36, "My kingdom is not of this world." We do not have to accept the eschatological doctrines of the Jehova Witnesses in order to preach about God's Kindom, as Jesus did so, rather than as what the Jehova Witness interpret it to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    7. Jesus' disciples must be no part of this wicked world. (John 17:16) They do not get involved in the world's political affairs and social controversies. They avoid the harmful conduct, practices, and attitudes that are common in the world. (James 1:27; 4:4) Can you identify a religious group in your community that has these marks of true Christianity?
    And yet we are also urged in the Bible to be obedient unto the law and government, giving unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's. And our Lord Jesus did not keep Himself seperate from the world as the Pharisees did seeking purity, but He went among the sinners to heal them and dined with the tax collectors. We are all in the world, we have no choice in that, so you must refer to those whom you associate with, but Jesus also taught us who our neighbors are, that we should "love our neighbor as ourself" in the story of the Good Samaritan. Well the Samaratans were a despised deviation from Judaism - A DIFFERENT RELIGION! The point of the phrase "be not conformed to this world" is explained most clearly in the context of Romans 12:2, where it is also found.

    Quote Originally Posted by Romans 12:1-13:2
    I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2- And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith. 4- For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, 5- so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; 7- or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; 8- he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness. Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good. Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality. Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion. Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18- Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18- If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. 20- Therefore ‘If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.’ 21- Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God and those who resist will bring judgement on themselves.
    In this context, we see that what is meant by being apart from this world is not a matter of being separated from the people and government but from the historical pattern of vengence which returns evil for evil in a neverending cycle. What is meant is that we are to transform the world as we have transformed ourselves by multiplying brotherly love, dilligence, hospitality, blessing, humility, and peace to all people around us beginning with our fellowship in Christ (recognizing that we are all different with our own unique gifts to contribute). In the epistle of James which you mentioned, the phrase is used in a similar manner - not to be aloof from the world but actively involved in making the world a better place. But the JWs do not do this. They hoard their affections to themselves spurning with contempt all government and religion outside their own as Satanic. They in effect, cross over to the other side of the road to avoid having anything to do with all those Satanic people of other religions, as the Pharisee did, recognizing no one as their neighbor but those obedient to their church authorities.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

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    Mitchell ive just read youre post.

    To go to such effort to write untruths about jehovahs witnesses is amazing. We preach from door to door, so how do we cut our selves off from people?

    We dont share in the practices of the world or the ideaology. Thats what jesus asks us to do. So we do that.

    When the bible says dont comform you expect us to conform, but that would be going against the bible which asks us not to conform. In the world they value the survival of the fittest, well we believe in helping those les fortunate than ourselves and not laughing at them or using them as worldy people do.

    Worldy governments and false religion are responsible for all the wars and most of the acts of major genocide in human history. To criticise jehovahs witnesses for not following them is sadly youre opinion and not the bibles.

    As jehovahs people we follow god, not man, we support gods view of life, not mans.

    As jesus said in john 17: 16 "They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world."

    Again there are 2 groups of people, those who are with this world and all the injustice and jehovahs witnesses who refuse to support these acts of evil and injustice. Im proud to be part of gods people.

    As jesus said in john 18: 36 “My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source.”

    Therefore as the bible states we support gods kingdom, not mans. So jehovahs people do that.

    The devil could not have offered all the kingdoms of the world to jesus if they didnt belong to him. So when jesus said "the world is lieing in the power of the wicked on." Jesus was NOT lieing. Yes the devil does rules this world, any person with who can see and feel will account to this.
     

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    Forum Professor captaincaveman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Evolution had to actually happen for it to have happened. Putting it off and claiming that there would be small mutaions over millions of years is proven to not have happened.

    Genetic mutations would show themselves physicly, therefore we would see a different species at some stage. When this different species was formed who exactly would it mate with?

    Evolution is vague and in complete. I know it didnt happen, but scientists who are serious will want actual evidence for evolution rather than reteric or anti god sentiment.
    where has this statement "small mutations over millions of years is proven to not have happened?" been proven? This is happenening all the time


    One such modern case is the mutation of a CCR5 receptor which means that upto one percent of western europeans have not been infected with hiv even after several contacts with the virus

    How about the many deformaties and illness which only surface when two people with mutated genes happen to procreate and have offspring? There, major changes are made in the physical shape of their bodys for relatively small mutations


    It only takes small mutations to make major differences. Look at humans and chimpanzees they are 98%(roughly)similar. but the two percent difference is due to mutations over the years since we shared the same ancestors

    Thats not that hard to understand and very possible. In reptile breeding we can isolate certain characteristics and remove them in one to two generations, which is 6years or less

    Look at the variations in dogs, all from a common ancestor, same with domesticated animals and they are just ones that weve interviened with over relatively small amounts of time and more clumsily than mother nature does
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    Scientifically speaking, if something hasn’t occurred in the past, been witnessed in the present or re-created in a lab it is impossible. Evolution depends on the mechanism of beneficial mutations that add to the genetic makeup of the organism, specimen or plant – all the while ignoring the fact that genetic additions have never been witnessed, observed or re-created!


    The points you made caveman are not evidence of evolution, they are pointing out mutations.

    Let me explain evolution to you. What evolution is and isnt.

    Evolution is how a group of people vcalled evolutionsist think that life came about.

    Evolution is NOT mutations or adaptions that happen with in a species and fail to create another species.

    Mutation is defined as a random change in an existing DNA molecule. A mutation cannot add to the length of a genetic code, it only can change the values already present. For evolution to occur there must be new genes to enter the gene pool - new genetic material is the only way for a more advanced species to come from another species.

    The problem is that gene mutation is random there is no order or calculation with mutation. Modern scientists can increase the rate of mutation, but cannot guide which genes will mutate.

    Some simple questions that are unanswered and leave evolutionist in a muddle

    Why do we not see half-lizard, half-bird creature walking around?

    Shouldn't we still be witnessing the process of evolution, if it is random?

    If evolution occurred wouldn't we see fish with legs?
     

  29. #28  
    Forum Ph.D. william's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Scientifically speaking, if something hasn’t occurred in the past, been witnessed in the present or re-created in a lab it is impossible.
    This may be the dumbest thing I've ever read.

    ...or it simply hasn't been observed yet, or recreated in the lab yet.

    Have you ever heard of a discovery?

    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

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    William this is how we describe scientific knowledge, mosts scientists would agree.

    No where in there does it not allow for discovery. The endless strawmanning you do william makes you a poor poster. Please try harder.
     

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    evolution is over millenia, not something noticable in short fragements of time. many Boidae(boad and pythons) have reminence of the legs of previous generations. A lung that is not used etc. Thats your evolution not some half and half animal walking about.

    hmmm fish with legs how about the coelacanth and the lungfishes which are living examples of lobe fish. most were about in the devonian era

    More believable than an all powerful being, thats everywhere, with no proof(exept a fairy tale book or two for the gullable) that cant be seen, heard, smelt or contacted and created everything around us very believable. Wheres your proof of the bible being factual and god existing?

    There is none
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    William this is how we describe scientific knowledge, mosts scientists would agree.

    No where in there does it not allow for discovery. The endless strawmanning you do william makes you a poor poster. Please try harder.
    'truth,' if 4 out of 5 dentists prefer brand x toothpaste, I want to know what the 5th dentist knows that the others have overlooked.

    How did I strawman when I used your own quote? Are you dumb?
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

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    Scientifically speaking, if something hasn’t occurred in the past, been witnessed in the present or re-created in a lab it is impossible.

    surely this applies to your god also? Theres no proof it happened in the past. definetly no proof its been witneseed in the present and cant be recreated in the lab

    Therefore Scientifically in your words God is impossible
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    Scientifically speaking, if something hasn’t occurred in the past, been witnessed in the present or re-created in a lab it is impossible.

    surely this applies to your god also? Theres no proof it happened in the past. definetly no proof its been witneseed in the present and cant be recreated in the lab

    Therefore Scientifically in your words God is impossible

    Game, set, and match to CC-man.
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

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    Ive shown proof of gods existence.

    Isaiah 40:22 "There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth"


    If caveman and william accept this statement as true, then ill take it that you now accept evolution is infact impossible?

    I guess ive achieved something on this forum.
     

  36. #35  
    Forum Professor captaincaveman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Ive shown proof of gods existence. If caveman and william accept this statement as true, then ill take it that you now accept evolution is infact impossible.

    I guess ive achieved something on this forum.

    you havent shown proof, youve quote the bible, which in my eyes is a fictional book. weve quoted many scientific books, who you say are ficticious

    wheres the proof? You cant prove god and you cant prove the bible

    lets change my statement(a little) :wink:

    surely this applies to your bible also? Theres no proof it happened(or is factual) in the past. definetly no proof its been witnesed(or factual) in the present and cant be proven in the lab

    Therefore Scientifically in your words bible is impossible
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    Caveman please read this again ...


    Isaiah 40:22 "There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth"

    Then answer me, if god doesnt exist how on earth did isaiah know that the earth was round over a thousand years befroe anyone else?

    This is evidence , i also accept all evidence from science books. Scientific researching has proven evolution to be impossible and the bible true. So there are no contradictions in my posts.
     

  38. #37  
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    I come back after the server crash, and what do I find? This guy is dumber than ever. Yes, that's a personal attack, but this is downright ridiculous

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    William this is how we describe scientific knowledge, mosts scientists would agree.
    Er...no we don't. We describe scientific knowledge as observed and explained phenomenon. Evolution (micro and macro) has been both observed and explained. I have, once again, given you many links to prove this. You have ignored them all.

    No where in there does it not allow for discovery. The endless strawmanning you do william makes you a poor poster. Please try harder.
    Psst...pot, this is kettle...you're black.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Scientifically speaking, if something hasn’t occurred in the past, been witnessed in the present or re-created in a lab it is impossible.
    Welcome to hundreds of years of experimental physics that were mostly correct when finally tested. Wee.

    Also, evolution has been extensively tested. Once again, you ignore evidence entirely.

    Evolution depends on the mechanism of beneficial mutations that add to the genetic makeup of the organism, specimen or plant – all the while ignoring the fact that genetic additions have never been witnessed, observed or re-created!
    Once again, GROSS IGNORANCE of the facts. Evolution doesn't depend on mutations, most species can adapt quickly enough without them. And there are many other theories than just mutation.

    Also...you are the biggest LIAR I've ever seen. It *HAS* been observed. Most OBVIOUSLY.
    A guy with 6 fingers? That's more DNA. 6 toes on both feet? Also more DNA. An extra arm? That also required more DNA. Extra hair? Well, normally those genes are dormant and come up almost randomly.

    Mutations that add-on DNA ALWAYS occur. BENEFICIAL ones are the ones disputed. However, viruses and other organisms depend FULLY on mutations most of the time. that's how you get sick every winter. Your gross ignorance is even more than the muslim's.

    The points you made caveman are not evidence of evolution, they are pointing out mutations.

    Let me explain evolution to you. What evolution is and isnt.

    Evolution is how a group of people called evolutionsist think that life came about.

    Evolution is NOT mutations or adaptions that happen with in a species and fail to create another species.
    ....AAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!! Evolution happens by a few ways: Mutation, adaptation, and one other way I forget. We HAVE been describing evolution! That lie the JW's teach you isn't evolution. If it was, NOBODY would be an evolutionist.

    Evolution *IS* mutations and adaptations. CHECK THE WIKIPEDIA PAGE I ALWAYS GIVE YOU!

    Mutation is defined as a random change in an existing DNA molecule. A mutation cannot add to the length of a genetic code, it only can change the values already present. For evolution to occur there must be new genes to enter the gene pool - new genetic material is the only way for a more advanced species to come from another species.
    .......Your ignorance is astounding. Mutations almost always give new genetic material. That is why you get cats with one eye, seven or eight claws, humans with extra extremities, etc.

    The question is whether they add BENEFICIAL ones. Evolution is beneficial mutations and adaptations built up over millions of years. During the course of all that time, they would evolve into a new species. BUT NOT OVER THE COURSE OF ONE MUTATION! Which is what your writing insinuates.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation

    READ.

    The problem is that gene mutation is random there is no order or calculation with mutation. Modern scientists can increase the rate of mutation, but cannot guide which genes will mutate.

    Some simple questions that are unanswered and leave evolutionist in a muddle

    Why do we not see half-lizard, half-bird creature walking around?
    umm...I don't know...because such a creature has no evolutionary advantage and it dies out fast? Evolution depends fully on the environment, otherwise a species could not evolve.

    Aside from that, evolution changes with each envirenment. There never were "half birds half lizards," but there were a growing amount of some species that began to take on helpful traits to match their environment. In a way, there are "half this half that" species, but not in the exaggerative way you probably imagine.

    in the end, most species end up reaching a "final destination" evolution wise, where they are most suited for their environment. This is why japanese are short, why some chinese are tall and others are short (some lived in environments where long legs were needed), etc.

    Shouldn't we still be witnessing the process of evolution, if it is random?
    #1 misconception clung to by lying thests of all time: evolution is random

    Evolution is NOT random. In order to evolve, the environment has to be there for the need. it's "directed" random "chance," just like everything else is. You need a mechanism to get it going.

    If evolution occurred wouldn't we see fish with legs?
    ...this is funny.
    "fish" in the sense we see today didn't grow legs, since they didn't need them.
    http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-d...gs-15424.shtml

    Most fish today don't need legs of any sort, since they've evolved a different route. Not only that, but they do have something similar to legs: Fins.

    Caveman please read this again ...
    Isaiah 40:22 "There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth"

    Then answer me, if god doesnt exist how on earth did isaiah know that the earth was round over a thousand years befroe anyone else?
    Interpretation heaven. did you know that, prior to that scripture being written, the circle was regarded as the perfect shape? Now, lets get this right: Perfect god, perfect creation...hmm...perfect shape!

    psst...the earth isn't round...it's oval. You lose.

    This is evidence , i also accept all evidence from science books. Scientific researching has proven evolution to be impossible and the bible true. So there are no contradictions in my posts.
    This is not evidence, since it's wrong.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Mitchell ive just read youre post.
    Really? I was answering your questions, and yet you make no comment on whether my answers are adequate and in what way they are not. In fact nothing in your post shows any knowledge of the content of my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    To go to such effort to write untruths about jehovahs witnesses is amazing. We preach from door to door, so how do we cut our selves off from people?
    I was taking great pains to answer the questions which you asked. I did so in complete sincerity, but I don't see the same sincerity in your reply. You simply reapeat the same things you have said in other posts making no effort to advance the discussion at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    We dont share in the practices of the world or the ideaology. Thats what jesus asks us to do. So we do that.
    I don't share in the practices and attitudes of the Jehova Witnesses. Thats what Jesus asks us to do. So I do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    When the bible says dont comform you expect us to conform, but that would be going against the bible which asks us not to conform. In the world they value the survival of the fittest, well we believe in helping those les fortunate than ourselves and not laughing at them or using them as worldy people do.
    When the Bible says don't conform to the world by returning hatred for hatred (calling other religions and Christian denomination Satanic as they call you Satanic), I expect you to be obedient to the Bible and let God be the judge. In the world, everyone thinks that they are right and everyone else is wrong, well I believe that all human beings are wrong and only God is right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Worldy governments and false religion are responsible for all the wars and most of the acts of major genocide in human history. To criticise jehovahs witnesses for not following them is sadly youre opinion and not the bibles.
    The Jehova Witnesses share the same self-righteous intolerant attitudes that are responsible for all the attrocities you decry. I criticize your organization for being of this world of intolerance and self-righteousness and for being just like all the others. There are many who cry out to the Lord, "we have done no evil", and to them God will reply, "do you think that you have any merit in the fact that I gave you no opportunity to do so".

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    As jehovahs people we follow god, not man, we support gods view of life, not mans.
    You follow the Watch Tower organization, which despite its outrageous claims is not the channel of God. The only channel of God is His holy word, the Bible, and the Holy Spirit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    As jesus said in john 17: 16 "They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world."
    You repeat it but you look to the Watch Tower to explain what it means instead of the Bible. Read the context of John 17 to understand what He is talking about. They are not of the world because they have believed His words (verse 8). To be not of this world is to be kept from the evil one (verse 15) and to be sanctified (verse 17) by the truth they have heard just as Jesus santified Himself (verse 19). But they are to be sent into the world just as Jesus went into the world (verse 18). And Jesus also prayed this prayer for anyone who will believe in Him through what these Apostles will write (the Bible) so that all may become one with the Father and with Jesus (verse 21).

    To this can be added the context of Romans 12:1-13:2 as I explained in the previous post. I am using the Bible to explain the meaning of these words and you are not! There is not one word in any of these passages that talks about passing judgement upon anyone who disagrees with your opinions or abount saying that they are of the devil. There is not one sentence indicating that "be not of this world" justifies your claim that all other denomination are inspired by the devil. Your rhetoric is supported by the Bible at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Again there are 2 groups of people, those who are with this world and all the injustice and jehovahs witnesses who refuse to support these acts of evil and injustice. Im proud to be part of gods people.
    There are 2 groups of people, those who look to God and those who look to men. Those who look to God put their trust in the judgement of God and those who look to men go by the judgement of men. Those who look to men, are of this world, following its habits of intolerance and self righteousness, puffing up themselves with the idea that their words are the words of God. There are those who take part in this behavior and those who refuse. I am proud only of God, for there is no reliable undistorted truth in any human beings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    As jesus said in john 18: 36 “My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source.”

    Therefore as the bible states we support gods kingdom, not mans. So jehovahs people do that.
    You are simply repeating yourself. It does not mean what the Watch Tower says it means but what the Bible says it means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    The devil could not have offered all the kingdoms of the world to jesus if they didnt belong to him. So when jesus said "the world is lieing in the power of the wicked on." Jesus was NOT lieing. Yes the devil does rules this world, any person with who can see and feel will account to this.
    Yes, I know this, but unlike you I know what it means and instead of simply repeating it to justify myself as you do I can explain it. Power in this world lies in the hands of the wicked one and therefore it is hopeless to change this world by means of power, for in seeking power you become its slave, selling out to the forces of evil. Power (and knowledge) is not the answer because God is not power and knowledge. All power and knowledge will serve God, but He does not serve them. God is ruled by love and goodness rather than power and knowledge, and that is why we say that God is love. For God would sacrifice all power and knowledge for the purpose of love, giving us the freedom to choose to obey Him or not.

    But when you look to an organization in this world such as the Jehova Witnesses you are doing exactly what you claim we should not do. We should not look to any organization of this world, but to God alone and an organization which is not of this world but ruled by God alone. If you must point to a leadership of men in a place on this planet then how is it not of this world? Jesus warned, "as you judge, so shall you be judged", and you are guilty of precisely what you judge everyone else, and thus you are on very precarious ground indeed.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

    I now have a blog too: http://astahost.blogspot.com/
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Caveman please read this again ...


    Isaiah 40:22 "There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth"

    Then answer me, if god doesnt exist how on earth did isaiah know that the earth was round over a thousand years befroe anyone else?
    Circle does not mean sphere. If I asked you to give the formula for the area a circle, you might say a=pi*r<sup>2</sup>. If I asked for the surface area of a sphere, you might say a=4*pi*r<sup>2</sup>.

    Conversely, I have a 'circle' of friends... but we don't all stand in such a way as to form a circle.
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

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    This forum seems to be offline most of the time. However when i come back i see people getting more and mroe aggresive at my views.

    The main reason for this seems to be either willfull or accidental misunderstanding of evolution.

    Ill try to explain what evolution is again, as it seems most claim ive said one thing which i havent or claim evolution is one thing which it isnt.

    Evolution involves...

    New genes never seen before in one creatures, Not more of the same genes or the same genes behaving differently in the same basic sturcture.

    The overall structure of a creature changing within the sperm or egg cell thus being able to create a separate creature than its own.

    Macroevolution, microevolution is NOT evolving of species, it does NOT show or prove how one creature may change the structure of genes in its sperm or egg cell.

    Basicly for a new creature o form it has to have happened quickly. The differnce between claim evolved species may appear similar but they are vastly different in every way. The 98% similarity between humans and chimps is enourmous. 2% of difference is enourmous biologicly although it SOUNDS a small difference.

    For evolution to be a fact then simply one creature must be able to reproduce another separate creature, many mutated creatures inbetween would simply NOT be able to survive. [there has never been seen any partly mutated creatures that apparently lead to new species.]

    I ask people to please stick to what evolution is. I fear because evolution is clearly impossible that the people who follow it are fanatics like any other religious fanatic. They refuse to answer the point and keep diverting.

    Basicly there is only so much time ill spend pointing this out. Personal attacks are an admittance of fanatcial behaviour.

    ps. From a distance a sphere apppears as a circle.
     

  42. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    This forum seems to be offline most of the time. However when i come back i see people getting more and mroe aggresive at my views.

    The main reason for this seems to be either willfull or accidental misunderstanding of evolution.

    Ill try to explain what evolution is again, as it seems most claim ive said one thing which i havent or claim evolution is one thing which it isnt.

    Evolution involves...

    New genes never seen before in one creatures, Not more of the same genes or the same genes behaving differently in the same basic sturcture.

    The overall structure of a creature changing within the sperm or egg cell thus being able to create a separate creature than its own.

    Macroevolution, microevolution is NOT evolving of species, it does NOT show or prove how one creature may change the structure of genes in its sperm or egg cell.

    Basicly for a new creature o form it has to have happened quickly. The differnce between claim evolved species may appear similar but they are vastly different in every way. The 98% similarity between humans and chimps is enourmous. 2% of difference is enourmous biologicly although it SOUNDS a small difference.

    For evolution to be a fact then simply one creature must be able to reproduce another separate creature, many mutated creatures inbetween would simply NOT be able to survive. [there has never been seen any partly mutated creatures that apparently lead to new species.]

    I ask people to please stick to what evolution is. I fear because evolution is clearly impossible that the people who follow it are fanatics like any other religious fanatic. They refuse to answer the point and keep diverting.

    Basicly there is only so much time ill spend pointing this out. Personal attacks are an admittance of fanatcial behaviour.

    ps. From a distance a sphere apppears as a circle.
    Most of the time - another clear exageration, maybe most of the last couple of days, (that's our days and not er God's days...) Not more agressive, the point is you are not debating, you are preaching, and dismissing the views of others, to suggest that you and a handful of others are the 'chosen ones' is not only presumptuous but probably wrong as well. I can only hope you are right, that is you go to heaven with all the other chosen ones and spend eternity bowing and scraping to 'Big J' while we all go somewhere else, have a good time and get a break from you.
     

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    We are entitled to different opinions. God has allowed free speech. If im able to show that for example one belief is impossible and no one can show another is impossbile, but in fact true, then surely there is some merit in this.

    For example the earth is a sphere, if i prove that then thats how a discovery is made. How we as people can learn. However i believe you are allowed your own opinions and thats fine. Whether there is any evidence for your views is another point, you are still entitled to them.

    I wish youd respect my rights to opinions that have been proven thats all.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    We are entitled to different opinions. God has allowed free speech. If im able to show that for example one belief is impossible and no one can show another is impossbile, but in fact true, then surely there is some merit in this.
    Oh he has huh? Just be careful, exercising that free speech will get you killed in "the end". So much for free

    I wish youd respect my rights to opinions that have been proven thats all.
    We have spent every discussion proving that the evidence for your opinions HAVE NO BASIS. Yet you ignore every attempt and keep preaching. ARGH!
     

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    My views have been proven false. They clearly havent.

    My views...

    1. The bible is scientificly true.

    2. Evolution has not been proven.

    3.Evolution is biologicly impossible.

    4.Jehovahs witnesses are the only religion that follows the bible.

    These views have been supported not only by me but also often by others on these forums.
     

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    So...
    by reading Truth1010's words, is there anyone here ready to enlist in the Jehovah's Witness'?

    I personally am ready to sign up for the "Jehovah's Witness protection program."

    Hardy-har-har
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

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    Here's a joke;
    What's a JW's favorite song?

    (Highlight)

    'Knocking on Heaven's Door' by Eric Clapton

    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

  48. #47  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    My views have been proven false. They clearly havent.

    My views...

    1. The bible is scientificly true.
    We have said, and provided evidence for, many claims of the bible that are FALSE (including ones supposedly scientific).

    2. Evolution has not been proven.
    Yet again, we prove this by offering link, in-depth explanations, and refutations of all of your claims of falsity. Where did we fall short?

    3.Evolution is biologicly impossible.
    Again, we have refuted this and offered you a way to learn better. You have ignored directly replying to ANY statements regarding it.

    4.Jehovahs witnesses are the only religion that follows the bible.

    These views have been supported not only by me but also often by others on these forums.
    Umm...actually, you are the only one supporting those views thus far. Save for one other.

    Also, you have put forward NO evidence which says the JW's are the true followers of the bible. In fact you have done the opposite: Provided a link which proves the new world translation was translated my a bunch of inexperienced nimble brains, then picked up by your religion because it fit their beliefs.
     

  49. #48  
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    Truth1010, how many times have people asked. can you give some evidence to back up the therory of god, and the bible theory for that matter
    CAPTAINCAVEMAN


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    And also, I'd like to know:

    If the bible has been around for a couple of thousand years and the JW's were only founded a couple of hundred years ago then what was happening in the meantime?

    No one went to heaven?

    And why did it take so long for a correct translation to come about?


    And I'd also like to know about this bit (I'm quoting wikipedia):

    Also taught is that only 144,000 people will receive eternal life in heaven with Jesus Christ
    Under Rutherford, membership grew from about 44,000 in 1928 to about 115,000 at the time of his death in 1942.
    So if that's true and only so many can get in the club, if there's already been far more JW's in the past, doesn't that mean you're wasting your time?
     

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    Any questions about jehovahs witnesses can be answered on this website.

    http://www.watchtower.org/

    I havent the time to correct every false accusation made against gods people. As for the evolutionary fools on these religion forums they dont seem to see that their own chosen belief is actually a religion, darwinism. It takes a fanatic to follow darwinism as its been shown to be groundless.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Any questions about jehovahs witnesses can be answered on this website.

    http://www.watchtower.org/

    I havent the time to correct every false accusation made against gods people. As for the evolutionary fools on these religion forums they dont seem to see that their own chosen belief is actually a religion, darwinism. It takes a fanatic to follow darwinism as its been shown to be groundless.


    This is a forum for debating though, also I haven't the time to look through a load of religious claptrap.

    A straight simple answer would do nicely please.

    No religious mumbo jumbo either to confuse my already befuddled mind!
     

  53. #52  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Any questions about jehovahs witnesses can be answered on this website.

    http://www.watchtower.org/

    I havent the time to correct every false accusation made against gods people. As for the evolutionary fools on these religion forums they dont seem to see that their own chosen belief is actually a religion, darwinism. It takes a fanatic to follow darwinism as its been shown to be groundless.

    how groundless is religion. NO actual proof . its not accepted by everyone in the world, and the ones that do cant agree

    definition of religion

    1) Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
    2) A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
    3) The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
    4) A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

    none apply to me. or unless you mean the loose term of religion as in "he follows his sports team religiously" which isn't the same thing

    I follow many books in the world not just one. that way i can make my own mind up and not have it made up for me
    CAPTAINCAVEMAN


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  54. #53  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Its All Relative
    And also, I'd like to know:

    If the bible has been around for a couple of thousand years and the JW's were only founded a couple of hundred years ago then what was happening in the meantime?

    No one went to heaven?

    And why did it take so long for a correct translation to come about?


    And I'd also like to know about this bit (I'm quoting wikipedia):

    Also taught is that only 144,000 people will receive eternal life in heaven with Jesus Christ
    Under Rutherford, membership grew from about 44,000 in 1928 to about 115,000 at the time of his death in 1942.
    So if that's true and only so many can get in the club, if there's already been far more JW's in the past, doesn't that mean you're wasting your time?
    Hi IAR,
    Since truth doesn't seem to have time (or much of anything else...), I'll answer that one for his lazy arse.

    They think 144,000 will go to heaven and the rest will remain in a paradise on Earth.

    Truth is number 144,001 by the way....
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by william

    Hi IAR,
    Since truth doesn't seem to have time (or much of anything else...), I'll answer that one for his lazy arse.

    They think 144,000 will go to heaven and the rest will remain in a paradise on Earth.

    Truth is number 144,001 by the way....



    I feel so stupid!

    That was totally obvious!!
     

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    There is no depth you wont stoop to william.

    The anointed were chosen from the time jesus created christianity at 33 ce. People have been chosen by god from then until the 144,000 were all chosen.

    When these anointed die they go to heaven. Those born after they are chosen or during, or before ie moses etc. these will have an earthly ressurection. This will happen after armageddon.

    Children that died before armageddon and others who had never had a chance to choose to serve god will also be ressuretced. This shows gods love of justice. All those children killed by worldy people and their governments, or by false religion will be given life by god in the paradise.

    My hope is an earthly one as i was born after the anointed were chosen. You too can have that earthly hope.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    You too can have that earthly hope.
    When hell freezes over I can!!
     

  58. #57  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    There is no depth you wont stoop to william.

    The anointed were chosen from the time jesus created christianity at 33 ce. People have been chosen by god from then until the 144,000 were all chosen.

    When these anointed die they go to heaven. Those born after they are chosen or during, or before ie moses etc. these will have an earthly ressurection. This will happen after armageddon.

    Children that died before armageddon and others who had never had a chance to choose to serve god will also be ressuretced. This shows gods love of justice. All those children killed by worldy people and their governments, or by false religion will be given life by god in the paradise.

    My hope is an earthly one as i was born after the anointed were chosen. You too can have that earthly hope.
    Well then dipstick, why didn't you just say this in the first place?!?

    Lazy bum....
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

  59. #58  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Its All Relative
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    You too can have that earthly hope.
    When hell freezes over I can!!
    Hi again IAR,
    The JWs don't believe in hell by the way....

    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

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    Maybe because i have a job and a life william.

    Those who insult others and hang around a forum all day maybe have issues of their own. Maybe talking about them may help you. You might lose that chip on youre shoulder.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by william
    Hi again IAR,
    The JWs don't believe in hell by the way....

    :wink:
     

  62. #61  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Maybe because i have a job and a life william.

    Those who insult others and hang around a forum all day maybe have issues of their own. Maybe talking about them may help you. You might lose that chip on youre shoulder.

    jw's are aggressive too i see and you seem to spend plenty of time on here also
    CAPTAINCAVEMAN


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    We do believe in hell, just the hell mentioned in the bible. Not the one apostates use to frighten children.

    Hell simply means everlasting death, a death with no ressurection.

    Not knowing our beliefs seems to be no barrier to making a post about us. Maybe do some research.

    here, a good place to start.

    http://www.watchtower.org.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Maybe because i have a job and a life william.

    Those who insult others and hang around a forum all day maybe have issues of their own. Maybe talking about them may help you. You might lose that chip on youre shoulder.

    Not that it's any of your business truth, but my job places me in front of a computer all day. And the hours are flexible.

    Cheers,
    william
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

  65. #64  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    We do believe in hell, just the hell mentioned in the bible. Not the one apostates use to frighten children.

    Hell simply means everlasting death, a death with no ressurection.

    Not knowing our beliefs seems to be no barrier to making a post about us. Maybe do some research.

    here, a good place to start.

    http://www.watchtower.org.
    You clowns call it 'eternal cutoff.' Hence, the reason I've used that in lieu of hell in a couple past posts.

    Don't get your panties in a bunch lies1010, sheesh!

    Oh yeah, they call their churches 'kingdom halls,' and the cross a 'torture stake.'

    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

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    The bible calls the torture stake a torture stake. Not even the most fanatical idolater would claim the words cross or crucifiction are mention in the original bible related to jesus death.

    We stick to the bible and NOT man made traditions such as christmas, crucifiction or idolatry. This is what jesus asks his people to do.
     

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    Say lies1010, can you tell us when the world will end? I noticed that it didn't happen in 1975 - in 1976 you doofuses were all standing around looking at each other with dumb looks on your faces.
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

  68. #67  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    We do believe in hell, just the hell mentioned in the bible. Not the one apostates use to frighten children.

    Hell simply means everlasting death, a death with no ressurection.

    Not knowing our beliefs seems to be no barrier to making a post about us. Maybe do some research.

    here, a good place to start.

    http://www.watchtower.org.

    you first. why not start with some evolution and biology studies that dont come from the watchtower
    CAPTAINCAVEMAN


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  69. #68  
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    Quote Originally Posted by william
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Maybe because i have a job and a life william.

    Those who insult others and hang around a forum all day maybe have issues of their own. Maybe talking about them may help you. You might lose that chip on youre shoulder.

    Not that it's any of your business truth, but my job places me in front of a computer all day. And the hours are flexible.

    Cheers,
    william
    me too. i breed and sell snakes. not that the bible did them any favours
    CAPTAINCAVEMAN


    I ANSWER TO NO-ONE - The wonders of athiesm

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  70. #69  
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    Quote Originally Posted by william
    Say lies1010, can you tell us when the world will end? I noticed that it didn't happen in 1975 - in 1976 you doofuses were all standing around looking at each other with dumb looks on your faces.


    ...sounds of crickets chirping....
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

  71. #70  
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    Caveman wrote...

    i breed and sell snakes
    Making money from gods creations and yet you show no gratitude.

    Im sure whilst breeding these snakes you see how each snake reproduces its own species in great variety as both the bible and science claim.
     

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    Say... does anyone pay attention to the ads at the bottom of the page here? I saw an ad for some 'Ex-Jehovah Witness Meeting' thing. No joke. Look for it.

    cheers
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

  73. #72  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Caveman wrote...

    i breed and sell snakes
    Making money from gods creations and yet you show no gratitude.

    Im sure whilst breeding these snakes you see how each snake reproduces its own species in great variety as both the bible and science claim.

    anyone who sells anything is making money from "gods creations", if you see trees as gods creation, same with oil(therefore plastics)etc etc Isn't everything gods creation in your eyes

    What i do is help people get over the fear of snakes and love these animals. the bible has been the cause of many of these animals dying in years gone by because of the whole god making them crawl on their bellys as punishment(oh what a wonderful god.... not)

    Actually many of the snakes i breed are cross bred between US corn snakes(which are solely mammal eaters) and south and north american king and milk snakes which are mammal eaters and cannabilistic(hence the name king snake)

    Many snakes i breed are differently patterned and coloured due to mutations in their genes. you would not see all of the snakes i breed in the wild, but some you do, as some with the mutations would cause them to be less camoflaged(eg leuicstic or amelanistic) and hence easier to spot by predetors. Others are twice the size, giving them an advantage if they are of canabalistic desires(eg king snakes)

    Hey isn't that natural selection by genetic mutations
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Caveman wrote...

    i breed and sell snakes
    Making money from gods creations and yet you show no gratitude.

    Im sure whilst breeding these snakes you see how each snake reproduces its own species in great variety as both the bible and science claim.

    I agree with truth1010
    You atheist are are always denying the truth and don't want to here the truth its like you closing your ears.
     

  75. #74  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Caveman wrote...

    i breed and sell snakes
    Making money from gods creations and yet you show no gratitude.

    Im sure whilst breeding these snakes you see how each snake reproduces its own species in great variety as both the bible and science claim.

    I agree with truth1010
    Ezra, realize that captaincaveman is under the impression that you are Truth1010 (read some of his previous posts...). That is, that you two are one in the same, and Truth1010 created you (or sould we say, that you evolved from the mind of Truth1010... ) in order to make it appear that he has an ally.

    Cheers
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

  76. #75  
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    OK

    type 'Jehovah's witness convicted paedophile' into google and count the pages of hits, look at the articles, it is apparently rife.

    Now tell me how bloody great JW's are.
     

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    Thank you ezra.

    As for you caveman im not sure if you realise how silly what you have just put is.

    Hey isn't that natural selection by genetic mutations
    No caveman this is NOT natural selection it is you breeding them. Natural selection would happen in the wild, naturally. I fear many l evolutionists dont know their own theory well enough.

    However all the snakes you produce are of course snakes. Let me know when you produce a lizard, then youll have evidence.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by william
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Caveman wrote...

    i breed and sell snakes
    Making money from gods creations and yet you show no gratitude.

    Im sure whilst breeding these snakes you see how each snake reproduces its own species in great variety as both the bible and science claim.

    I agree with truth1010
    Ezra, realize that captaincaveman is under the impression that you are Truth1010 (read some of his previous posts...). That is, that you two are one in the same, and Truth1010 created you (or sould we say, that you evolved from the mind of Truth1010... ) in order to make it appear that he has an ally.

    Cheers

    captaincaveman is not in my side he is an athiest I belieave in God and truth1010 does to and I am not him what are you talking about?
    You atheist are are always denying the truth and don't want to here the truth its like you closing your ears.
     

  79. #78  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    captaincaveman is not in my side he is an athiest I belieave in God and truth1010 does to and I am not him what are you talking about?

    To make it appear that TRUTH1010 has an ally, dipstick!
    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

  80. #79  
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    Funny how we get a religious freak on here and after a few days he gets an ally, I think Truth and Ezra are one and the same AND that they are also Prof and friend.
     

  81. #80  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Funny how we get a religious freak on here and after a few days he gets an ally, I think Truth and Ezra are one and the same AND that they are also Prof and friend.
    I'm starting to think the same thing....

    Although they share an uncanny ability to misunderstand, they do however have slightly different writing styles and refer to different links. At least Ezra links us to sites other than watchtower....

    "... the polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the invariable plane."
    ~Footnote in Goldstein's Mechanics, 3rd ed. p. 202
     

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    William wrote...

    to make it appear that TRUTH1010 has an ally, dipstick!
    Quit insulting people william. It makes you sound about 14, youre making a fool of yourself.

    Megabrain wrote...

    Funny how we get a religious freak on here
    Whats funny about religious people on a religious forum?

    The funny thing is the athiests who constantly slate them.

    Im sure the tactic of adding making posts under different names is something you two may do. But im here for debate and to show my opinions with evidence. Not to win with the use of allies.
     

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    Alright that's enough. This is becoming a flame war. >.> tone er down you little weasels. o.o
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Alright that's enough. This is becoming a flame war. >.> tone er down you little weasels. o.o

    and what are you going to do about it?
    You atheist are are always denying the truth and don't want to here the truth its like you closing your ears.
     

  85. #84  
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    the increasing hostility towards Truth. It's teetering on becoming flaming.
     

  86. #85  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    the increasing hostility towards Truth. It's teetering on becoming flaming.
    Uh what?
    You atheist are are always denying the truth and don't want to here the truth its like you closing your ears.
     

  87. #86  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Thank you ezra.

    As for you caveman im not sure if you realise how silly what you have just put is.

    Hey isn't that natural selection by genetic mutations
    No caveman this is NOT natural selection it is you breeding them. Natural selection would happen in the wild, naturally. I fear many l evolutionists dont know their own theory well enough.

    However all the snakes you produce are of course snakes. Let me know when you produce a lizard, then youll have evidence.
    [/quote]


    if you read what i said. i said that

    you would not see all of the snakes i breed in the wild, but some you do, as some with the mutations would cause them to be less camoflaged(eg leuicstic or amelanistic) and hence easier to spot by predetors. Others are twice the size, giving them an advantage if they are of canabalistic desires(eg king snakes)
    this is natural selelection(IN THE WILD), hence the amelanistic(albino roughly)would not do as well and hence die off causing those mutated to have better camaflage to survive and produce offspring that would do the same




    However all the snakes you produce are of course snakes. Let me know when you produce a lizard, then youll have evidence.
    you still dont understand that evolution isn't over short periods of time but millenia. And leg-less lizards exist, we havew them in the uk. also many skinks(lizards)have elongated bodys from this evolution


    I never knew jw's were so aggressive
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    you always have something to say don't you.
    You atheist are are always denying the truth and don't want to here the truth its like you closing your ears.
     

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    Caveman wrote...

    the amelanistic(albino roughly)would not do as well and hence die off causing those mutated to have better camaflage to survive and produce offspring that would do the same
    That would be fine except the albino snake IS a the result of a mutation. Showing as all scientists know that 99.9% of mutations are bad. Changing colour of course would not leed to change in species.

    However evolutionists seem to stumble over the fact that snakes only ever reproduce snakes.

    A very large problem for the evolutionists on here. This is a religious forum you know.
     

  90. #89  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Caveman wrote...

    the amelanistic(albino roughly)would not do as well and hence die off causing those mutated to have better camaflage to survive and produce offspring that would do the same
    That would be fine except the albino snake IS a the result of a mutation. Showing as all scientists know that 99.9% of mutations are bad. Changing colour of course would not leed to change in species.

    However evolutionists seem to stumble over the fact that snakes only ever reproduce snakes.

    A very large problem for the evolutionists on here. This is a religious forum you know.

    Off course amelanism in all its forms in a mutation, that was the point of my statement. I was just pointing out that small mutations can occur over short periods, for species to evolve differently you would need a long period of time. Look at something like down-syndrome in humans. that is a small variation in the genetic make up, which not only effects mental ability but physical shape and increased strength. that is a major mutation in one generation due to a small change

    Sorry but this is a religious section of a science forum, there are 17+ different sections including astronomy, biology, physics, enviromental issues, electronic etc and the religious area is just one
    CAPTAINCAVEMAN


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    Caveman wrote...

    Sorry but this is a religious section of a science forum, there are 17+ different sections including astronomy, biology, physics, enviromental issues, electronic etc and the religious area is just one
    Why apologise you read the home page and counted the sections you are spot on.

    Have you any evidence of these major mutations that have lead to new species?

    Is it not just handy to claim it happened over millions of years as you have no evidence for this happening?

    As there is no evidence then how do you know it took millions of years?

    The evolutionism theory is in a deep hole, needing actual evidence to ever sprout legs and climb out again.
     

  92. #91  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Caveman wrote...

    Sorry but this is a religious section of a science forum, there are 17+ different sections including astronomy, biology, physics, enviromental issues, electronic etc and the religious area is just one
    Why apologise you read the home page and counted the sections you are spot on.

    Have you any evidence of these major mutations that have lead to new species?

    Is it not just handy to claim it happened over millions of years as you have no evidence for this happening?

    As there is no evidence then how do you know it took millions of years?

    The evolutionism theory is in a deep hole, needing actual evidence to ever sprout legs and climb out again.

    The geological evidence (fossils buried at differing depths) clearly shows patterns that creatures changed of many years. It is very clear you have dismissed evolution without even a cursory look at the evidence, you refuse to understand it, and therfore should confine youself to quoting from the bible.
     

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    Megabrain wrote...

    The geological evidence (fossils buried at differing depths) clearly shows patterns that creatures changed of many years.
    Finding different fully developed and separate creatures throughout history then "claiming" they are related is NOT evidence. It an opinion.

    Evolution is the process NOT the result. If we find the process of evolution happening or has happened then you have your evidence. If not you have non. I hope all evolutionists will stick to this.

    This need for evidence is the basis of science. People who claim thins without evidence are known as faiths, or to me a false religion. Evolution remains a false religion.
     

  94. #93  
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    well. Alot of evolution is based on studying fossil records as well as studying actual species today

    In the field of snakes. As ive mentioned before there is the issue of remenance of the back limbs and pelvic attachments, called the anal spurs. They are found in a certain selection of boidae, mainly pythons as these are seen as old world snakes and not as evolved as much as say vipera and elapids.

    Then interestingly we still have species of legless lizards, which is believed to be a step between some more slender lizards like skinks and snakes themselves. In the uk we have a species called the slow worm.

    Then theres issues like the fact that many older world snakes like colubrids have venom but no way of releasing it, and some have small rear fangs that chew it in all the way up to the top snakes the pit vipers with retractable fangs at the cutting edge of "modern" snakes

    The venom itself is an evolution of saliva that has been adapted over mellenia

    None of this will probably be of interest to you because its not written in the bible and therefore non believable to yourself. These a couple of examples off the top of my heat from a small specific area of nature
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Evolution is the process NOT the result. If we find the process of evolution happening or has happened then you have your evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by New Scientist
    However, such changes are small beer compared with the hard stuff of evolution: making new species. Yet here too evolution put on a show in real time. Biologists reported not one, but two butterfly species that arose abruptly from hybridisation between existing species, a form of instant speciation formerly known only in plants.

    The full article is here
     

  96. #95  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Its All Relative
    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    Evolution is the process NOT the result. If we find the process of evolution happening or has happened then you have your evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by New Scientist
    However, such changes are small beer compared with the hard stuff of evolution: making new species. Yet here too evolution put on a show in real time. Biologists reported not one, but two butterfly species that arose abruptly from hybridisation between existing species, a form of instant speciation formerly known only in plants.

    The full article is here

    thankyou for that link saved my having to dig :wink:
    CAPTAINCAVEMAN


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    All the snakes youve mentioned survive and thrive. They are variety not different species.

    The anal spurs you mentioned...

    This bone is considered a hip bone, which has no connection with the spine and simply "floats" in the muscle mass. There is sometimes a bone, considered a femur, which sticks out of the snake's side. This primitive femur is then covered by a corneal spur, which resembles a claw. Males' spurs are generally longer and more pointed than females', and are used for clasping and tickling during courtship and mating. Sometimes they are used during fights to scratch the opponent or to hook into a tree so the snake can hang out of a tree and catch a victim.

    All snake lovers know this, only recently have fraudulent evolutionists desparate for evidence tried to claim this is some sort of left over limb.

    I have asked you evolutionists to please use actual evience of evolution. NOT to point out whats there then make claims as to how whats there got there. This is assumption or opinion. NOT evidence.

    Please again stick to this when presenting a case.
     

  98. #97  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    I have asked you evolutionists to please use actual evience of evolution. NOT to point out whats there then make claims as to how whats there got there. This is assumption or opinion. NOT evidence.

    Did you read my post?

    2 new species of butterfly from hybridisation of other species......

    Proof of evolution?


    Also in your other post about the brilliant article you found, you didn't reply to what you thought about mine?
     

  99. #98  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth1010
    All the snakes youve mentioned survive and thrive. They are variety not different species.

    The anal spurs you mentioned...

    This bone is considered a hip bone, which has no connection with the spine and simply "floats" in the muscle mass. There is sometimes a bone, considered a femur, which sticks out of the snake's side. This primitive femur is then covered by a corneal spur, which resembles a claw. Males' spurs are generally longer and more pointed than females', and are used for clasping and tickling during courtship and mating. Sometimes they are used during fights to scratch the opponent or to hook into a tree so the snake can hang out of a tree and catch a victim.

    All snake lovers know this, only recently have fraudulent evolutionists desparate for evidence tried to claim this is some sort of left over limb.

    I have asked you evolutionists to please use actual evience of evolution. NOT to point out whats there then make claims as to how whats there got there. This is assumption or opinion. NOT evidence.

    Please again stick to this when presenting a case.
    Yeah well done. in your words "it is considered a hip bone" and a "femer"why would a snake with no legs need a hip bone and femer? it is a remanence of the past, this is evidence that the snake once had legs. and this has been known about for many many years

    this is how evolution happens in small stages
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    You athiest always denie what we say but you captaincaveman say give me proof you should say something else then that. lets talk in pm captaincaveman about the bible and lets see who is true.
    You atheist are are always denying the truth and don't want to here the truth its like you closing your ears.
     

  101. #100  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    You athiest always denie what we say but you captaincaveman say give me proof you should say something else then that. lets talk in pm captaincaveman about the bible and lets see who is true.

    with respect. after your last insult you pm'd me. i'll refrane thank you
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