Thread: Driverless cars available by 2020 says Nissan

Cars that drive themselves, a science-fiction story in the 1950s and '60s, is starting to become reality. Just this week, Nissan announced its big plans to have multiple self-driving vehicles ready for retail sale in seven short years, if and when federal and state regulators agree.


That means by 2020, when baby boomers’ vision starts to blur and reaction times slow to a sometimes-fatal rate, there will be a safe option, other than hiring a driver or staying at home.



According to recent data from the Administration on Aging, by 2030, roughly 72 million people – 19 percent of the U.S. population – will be 65 years or older. With age comes a decrease in driving confidence and capabilities. With current life expectancy pushing all-time highs, the autonomous car actually seems to make sense.

Nissan to build driverless cars by 2020 - MSN Autos


So if these cars have an accident and no one is driving it who is to blame and who pays the fines?

Excuse me, as I'm quite ignorant on this particular subject. But, the roads I drive on consist of 1 lane dirt roads, sharp turns, regularly meeting small animals and potential natural hazards "large rocks". Can these vehicles swerve to miss a squirrel, or, perhaps someone's cat? If it meets a tractor, can it back up a 1/2 mile to someone's driveway and turn around? How does it know that it's allowed in the driveway? What if there's a Posted sign there? Can it detect barbed wire fences? Sorry for being skeptical on its applications in very rural areas, it seems the design would work splendidly in more urbanized roads.

I like driving.......

I'd imagine Nissan's would operate something like this

A look inside Google's "Driverless Car" - YouTube


A good example of the uses stated in the OP

Self-Driving Car Test: Steve Mahan - YouTube

Originally Posted by shlunka

Excuse me, as I'm quite ignorant on this particular subject. But, the roads I drive on consist of 1 lane dirt roads, sharp turns, regularly meeting small animals and potential natural hazards "large rocks". Can these vehicles swerve to miss a squirrel, or, perhaps someone's cat? If it meets a tractor, can it back up a 1/2 mile to someone's driveway and turn around? How does it know that it's allowed in the driveway? What if there's a Posted sign there? Can it detect barbed wire fences? Sorry for being skeptical on its applications in very rural areas, it seems the design would work splendidly in more urbanized roads.

The technology was mostly developed driving off road as part of various DARPA challenges that are basically well instrumented Dune buggies riding on single lane dirt roads.

Most likely they won't swerve to miss small animals...because, quite frankly it's dangerous and people shouldn't do it either (and few people love animals more than I do).

This sort of tech in inevitable and will probably be much safer than most people driving. It will also be easier to built in energy efficiency because they'll platoon up with other vehicles and travel in each other's drag. But I wonder about the legal landscape -- will all states go to a no fault system? Or who gets sued when there is an accident?

20 years from now cars will be as smart as grandad's horse.
Grandad was a drunk and would climb into the back of the wagon, and the horse would take his passed out body back to the barn.

----Calling Fred's hardware, 2033----"Hi Fred, I'll need 2 gallons of paint, 500 coated 3" square drive deck screws, and a roll of hardware cloth. My truck should pull up out front in about 17 minutes, just put the stuff in the back, tell the truck to drive home, and bill my account. Thanks Fred, see you soon".

Unfortunately, the term "driverless" cars has implications, to me anyway, of cars driving around with no occupants. What a waste of natural resources THAT would be! jocular

And how do they guarantee that the OS never hangs up or crashes leaving the car and the driver out of control? When perfect computers are created then I will trust a driver-less car.

I like driving!!

A lot!

I don't.

I'm an old fart but still don't mind driving but could use some of the newer technology like lane crossing warnings and a warning for falling asleep from time to time when I drive to long.

Originally Posted by seagypsy

And how do they guarantee that the OS never hangs up or crashes leaving the car and the driver out of control?

Same way you know your power steering or power brakes will not fail and leave the driver out of control. (They are both designed to fail safe.)

Originally Posted by billvon

Originally Posted by seagypsy

And how do they guarantee that the OS never hangs up or crashes leaving the car and the driver out of control?

Same way you know your power steering or power brakes will not fail and leave the driver out of control. (They are both designed to fail safe.)

Kind of like auto pilot when trimming a plane in the air?

Originally Posted by billvon

Originally Posted by seagypsy

And how do they guarantee that the OS never hangs up or crashes leaving the car and the driver out of control?

Same way you know your power steering or power brakes will not fail and leave the driver out of control. (They are both designed to fail safe.)

I've never seen an operating system work that well. and in every car I have ever had that had a computer in it, the computer was the first thing to screw up. I hate new cars. Can't wait til my 78 mg midget is up and running. Not a single microchip in that thing. I don't even want an mp3 player in it.

Originally Posted by PhDemon

And when the OS crashes do you have to get out of the car and get back in again...

I am so into computer shit in cars.....as I am requesting a new one for Hawai'i.... for our 40th he's run out of jewelry *L*

Originally Posted by LuciDreaming

I like driving.......

I do, too. Which is why we need driverless cars.

From my experiences on the road, 90% of drivers have NO business being behind the wheel of a car. If we want to clear up congestion and reduce accidents in order to open up the roads, we need some kind of integrated system where all the components talk to each other (and I don't mean in the colorful euphemisms most of us use on the road).

Fwiw with the Google driverless cars (the last I heard, anyway), in the 500,000 miles logged, the only accident was while a human was in control. Which brings up another point: you'll be able to pick when you want to drive or just have the car do it.

Originally Posted by seagypsy

I've never seen an operating system work that well.

Two points there.

1) If it is constructed like your current braking/steering systems then you can still always turn the wheel or stomp on the brakes; the computer does not disconnect those things, just drives them in parallel.
2) A great many aircraft have the computers control the flight surfaces 100% (i.e. if they crash the plane is uncontrollable.) I have never heard of a failure that resulted in an uncontrollable airplane. So it's quite possible, albeit expensive, to make them that reliable.

Id rather have cars driven by a computer than have a nitwit drive while texting.

I imagine that the accident rates would go down dramatically and that it will be found that most accidents on the road will have been the result of people not using the automated driving feature.

(Also if you want to drive exactly over a banana peel in reverse on a log bridge during an endangered frog crossing without hitting one, you can always not activate it, I assume, like cruise control, that its something you activate when the situation is suitable and not activate it when you dont want it. )

We tend to fear the devil we don't know more than the devil we know. But the devil we know in this case is pretty darn bad.

If driverless automobiles were available 50 years ago, my 1st lover and I could have had sex while driving from the prom to our dinner reservations. Instead, we stopped for sex, were late for our reservations and had to settle for prom night dinner at a pizza place. We were grossly overdressed for the place. But it was fun.

Originally Posted by cosmictraveler

I'm an old fart but still don't mind driving but could use some of the newer technology like lane crossing warnings and a warning for falling asleep from time to time when I drive to long.

You must be, if you remember Gort!

(You never answered my question as to HTH did you obtain that avatar?) joc

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

Originally Posted by LuciDreaming

I like driving.......

I do, too. Which is why we need driverless cars.

From my experiences on the road, 90% of drivers have NO business being behind the wheel of a car. If we want to clear up congestion and reduce accidents in order to open up the roads, we need some kind of integrated system where all the components talk to each other (and I don't mean in the colorful euphemisms most of us use on the road).

I live in the country. We just need to teach you city folk how to drive!

Originally Posted by sculptor

If driverless automobiles were available 50 years ago, my 1st lover and I could have had sex while driving from the prom to our dinner reservations. Instead, we stopped for sex, were late for our reservations and had to settle for prom night dinner at a pizza place. We were grossly overdressed for the place. But it was fun.

*laughing*

One word for you.

"Bummer!"

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

Originally Posted by LuciDreaming

I like driving.......

I do, too. Which is why we need driverless cars.

From my experiences on the road, 90% of drivers have NO business being behind the wheel of a car. If we want to clear up congestion and reduce accidents in order to open up the roads, we need some kind of integrated system where all the components talk to each other (and I don't mean in the colorful euphemisms most of us use on the road).

I live in the country. We just need to teach you city folk how to drive!

Hey I spent a significant portion of my growing-up in the country! Lessons learned: Drive in the middle of the road, to be less vulnerable to deer. Always have brights on unless a car is approaching from the opposite direction. Wave to passers and police, they are your neighbors.

It's a whole different dataset in the city!

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

Originally Posted by LuciDreaming

I like driving.......

I do, too. Which is why we need driverless cars.

From my experiences on the road, 90% of drivers have NO business being behind the wheel of a car. If we want to clear up congestion and reduce accidents in order to open up the roads, we need some kind of integrated system where all the components talk to each other (and I don't mean in the colorful euphemisms most of us use on the road).

JEEZ! Can it be that high? After all the rigorous Driver's Ed., testing, eyesight requirements, road signs, etc., etc., how can the "system" possibly be turning out "licensed" but incapable drivers in such high proportion? joc

Originally Posted by Nisslbody

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

Originally Posted by LuciDreaming

I like driving.......

I do, too. Which is why we need driverless cars.

From my experiences on the road, 90% of drivers have NO business being behind the wheel of a car. If we want to clear up congestion and reduce accidents in order to open up the roads, we need some kind of integrated system where all the components talk to each other (and I don't mean in the colorful euphemisms most of us use on the road).

I live in the country. We just need to teach you city folk how to drive!

Hey I spent a significant portion of my growing-up in the country! Lessons learned: Drive in the middle of the road, to be less vulnerable to deer. Always have brights on unless a car is approaching from the opposite direction. Wave to passers and police, they are your neighbors.

It's a whole different dataset in the city!

Absolutely right! In rural area driving, there are few distractive drivers all around you. Yet, on our rural road in Missouri, where sometimes the ONLY vehicle passing our house in an entire day was the mail delivery lady, some asshole rounded a curve, hit her head-on; the town Fire Chief, 8 miles distant, kept her in her vehicle, fearing her heart pacemaker might go askance, pulled his 4X4 Chevy truck out into the middle of a field, called for helicopter. It "found" his truck in a little over 1 hour! Taking the risk, transporting her to the closest medically-capable town, 23 miles distant, would have required about 20 minutes or so. Life in the boonies! jocular

Originally Posted by Nisslbody

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

Originally Posted by LuciDreaming

I like driving.......

I do, too. Which is why we need driverless cars.

From my experiences on the road, 90% of drivers have NO business being behind the wheel of a car. If we want to clear up congestion and reduce accidents in order to open up the roads, we need some kind of integrated system where all the components talk to each other (and I don't mean in the colorful euphemisms most of us use on the road).

EMI live in the country. We just need to teach you city folk how to drive!

Hey I spent a significant portion of my growing-up in the country! Lessons learned: Drive in the middle of the road, to be less vulnerable to deer. Always have brights on unless a car is approaching from the opposite direction. Wave to passers and police, they are your neighbors.

It's a whole different dataset in the city!

And beware of the flatlander. They drive us NUTS on the two lane!

They drive 100 mph when the road is straight....they hit their brakes and do 35 when we are doing 55 on the windy parts (where safe) on the two lane!

Originally Posted by jocular

Originally Posted by Nisslbody

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

Originally Posted by LuciDreaming

I like driving.......

I do, too. Which is why we need driverless cars.

From my experiences on the road, 90% of drivers have NO business being behind the wheel of a car. If we want to clear up congestion and reduce accidents in order to open up the roads, we need some kind of integrated system where all the components talk to each other (and I don't mean in the colorful euphemisms most of us use on the road).

I live in the country. We just need to teach you city folk how to drive!

Hey I spent a significant portion of my growing-up in the country! Lessons learned: Drive in the middle of the road, to be less vulnerable to deer. Always have brights on unless a car is approaching from the opposite direction. Wave to passers and police, they are your neighbors.

It's a whole different dataset in the city!

Absolutely right! In rural area driving, there are few distractive drivers all around you. Yet, on our rural road in Missouri, where sometimes the ONLY vehicle passing our house in an entire day was the mail delivery lady, some asshole rounded a curve, hit her head-on; the town Fire Chief, 8 miles distant, kept her in her vehicle, fearing her heart pacemaker might go askance, pulled his 4X4 Chevy truck out into the middle of a field, called for helicopter. It "found" his truck in a little over 1 hour! Taking the risk, transporting her to the closest medically-capable town, 23 miles distant, would have required about 20 minutes or so. Life in the boonies! jocular

Ok YOU live in the sticks.....I live in the country! *L* *kidding* We see cars frequently but it isn't like when I drive in San Francisco.

the community I live in has 1065 people

The nearest town (college town) has 9,000 well when college is in

THE HUGE CITY!....has 25,000 people..about 10 miles away...

so Joc......you live in the sticks...and I live in the country *chuckle*

Originally Posted by jocular

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

Originally Posted by LuciDreaming

I like driving.......

I do, too. Which is why we need driverless cars.

From my experiences on the road, 90% of drivers have NO business being behind the wheel of a car. If we want to clear up congestion and reduce accidents in order to open up the roads, we need some kind of integrated system where all the components talk to each other (and I don't mean in the colorful euphemisms most of us use on the road).

JEEZ! Can it be that high? After all the rigorous Driver's Ed., testing, eyesight requirements, road signs, etc., etc., how can the "system" possibly be turning out "licensed" but incapable drivers in such high proportion? joc

Hell, I was being conservative with my estimate.

Driverless cars wouldn't need traffic lights, stop signs, or roundabouts. Which is nice since most drivers have no idea what those things mean anyways.

Originally Posted by babe

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

Originally Posted by LuciDreaming

I like driving.......

I do, too. Which is why we need driverless cars.

From my experiences on the road, 90% of drivers have NO business being behind the wheel of a car. If we want to clear up congestion and reduce accidents in order to open up the roads, we need some kind of integrated system where all the components talk to each other (and I don't mean in the colorful euphemisms most of us use on the road).

I live in the country. We just need to teach you city folk how to drive!

Oh, I'm a country boy. I loathe the city. I've driven in Chicago, New York, and Atlanta. It was more like an amusement park ride than a method of transport.

My favorite roads were out in hills and mountains of Oregon. I used to leave my dog at a farm an hour away from Portland when I went on vacation. That drive, no traffic, top down, dog's tongue lolling, whipping around corners...that was pretty much MY vacation.

Not to triple post or anything, but in regards to driver's ed; I used to do amateur racing when I was younger. There is a LOT to be said for a driver's class that teaches you how your car behaves at the limits of its capability. When you put a kid into a car and they have no idea what it is like to lose the back end on a corner or manage understeer, how can you expect them to be able to compensate when it happens in the real world? Learning to parallel park and use turn signals is great, but how about a wet course?

Here is the States, mandatory driver's ed is pitiful. Unless the parent takes initiative to enroll their kid in a more advanced driving class (and the vast majority do not), we're not teaching them enough about the vehicle.

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

There is a LOT to be said for a driver's class that teaches you how your car behaves at the limits of its capability.

Agreed.

Here is the States, mandatory driver's ed is pitiful. Unless the parent takes initiative to enroll their kid in a more advanced driving class (and the vast majority do not), we're not teaching them enough about the vehicle.

Also agreed. It teaches the basics, then it's up to the driver to seek more advanced training if they want it.

Driverless cars, thousands of 'em, all cruising along at exactly the speed limit.
The U.S.A. is a country of speed limit plus-----if the speed limit is 60, people drive at 66-68, if 70, then 77-78 (usually just add 10% to the posted speed limit).

So the cars which will still have live(human) drivers will have some very upset people, frustrated by the slow machines.

as/re "love to drive" -program the car to drive you to your own funeral, then lead the parade to the cemetary---------
ain't life a gas?

.....................

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

Hell, I was being conservative with my estimate.

I would have thought that you, knowing by now my usual reaction to the term "system", could detect unmentioned facetiousness on my part! joc

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

Not to triple post or anything, but in regards to driver's ed; I used to do amateur racing when I was younger. There is a LOT to be said for a driver's class that teaches you how your car behaves at the limits of its capability. When you put a kid into a car and they have no idea what it is like to lose the back end on a corner or manage understeer, how can you expect them to be able to compensate when it happens in the real world? Learning to parallel park and use turn signals is great, but how about a wet course?

Here is the States, mandatory driver's ed is pitiful. Unless the parent takes initiative to enroll their kid in a more advanced driving class (and the vast majority do not), we're not teaching them enough about the vehicle.

I have had a home, with my husband in Humboldt since 1977. I know windy mountain roads. They are my favorite. When I am in Highway, I sometimes drive up road, just to keep my cornering skills! *chuckle*

Where outside Portland. I did some studies at PAC in Portland. Seaside is where I had my major car wreck.

dang....was thinking of upper highway...when I home, in Hawai'i!

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

Not to triple post or anything, but in regards to driver's ed; I used to do amateur racing when I was younger. There is a LOT to be said for a driver's class that teaches you how your car behaves at the limits of its capability. When you put a kid into a car and they have no idea what it is like to lose the back end on a corner or manage understeer, how can you expect them to be able to compensate when it happens in the real world? Learning to parallel park and use turn signals is great, but how about a wet course?

Here is the States, mandatory driver's ed is pitiful. Unless the parent takes initiative to enroll their kid in a more advanced driving class (and the vast majority do not), we're not teaching them enough about the vehicle.

I had an awesome driver's ed teacher up in Indiana when I was a teen. We would let him smoke and he would buy us McDonalds while we were out. Besides that, if it snowed, which it does often in northern Indiana, he would take us to an abandoned parking lot and make us do donuts in the snow. Other times he would jerk the wheel from us so we would lose control and see how long it took us to get control back. He was really good about teaching us defensive driving but told us not to tell the school what he was doing because they ordered him not to do that because some kid complained. But we had all begged him to do it so he did.

You can ask Neverfly, anytime it snows, he insists that I drive instead of him.

I'd be delighted to have a car that drives itself. I have often said that if by some (unlikely) accident I become rich the first thing I would do would be to hire a chauffeur to drive me around. But frankly, no way would I trust the first couple of generations of the things with my life. Let someone else be the guinea pig that works out the bugs.

Originally Posted by danhanegan

I'd be delighted to have a car that drives itself. I have often said that if by some (unlikely) accident I become rich the first thing I would do would be to hire a chauffeur to drive me around. But frankly, no way would I trust the first couple of generations of the things with my life. Let someone else be the guinea pig that works out the bugs.

I agree, but it would be great for elderly people!

They could run errands much easier!