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Thread: What Is The Purpose of Knowing How The Universe Came Into Being?

  1. #1 What Is The Purpose of Knowing How The Universe Came Into Being? 
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    I suspect the above question have been asked many times before, I suspect it will continue to be asked until a reasonable answer can provided. Why do we want to know about quantum physics? What are we expecting to do with the knowledge? Is there a specific reason science is pursuing the answer? If we discover the properties of all particles in space caused by the supposedly big bang, how will it benefit us on our planet? If we stumbled on the answer how the universe got started, do we attempt to build a big bang scenario of our own, for what reason? When we collide particles of different potentials and observe the results that lead to other particles, can the investigation ever stop? If we found all the answers to the beginning of time, would we create a new universe? What do you think?


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    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    How about asking a slightly more general question: What is the purpose of knowing anything?
    Or, as an answer, how about Faraday's response when asked "what use were his discoveries in electromagnetism?" - "What use is a new born baby?"

    You're showing some bias here "I suspect it will continue to be asked until a reasonable answer can provided".
    Define "reasonable" in this context.
    Apart from anything else is not knowledge for its own sake worthwhile?


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    [QUOTE=Dywyddyr;421015]
    How about asking a slightly more general question: What is the purpose of knowing anything?
    Or, as an answer, how about Faraday's response when asked "what use were his discoveries in electromagnetism?" - "What use is a new born baby?"

    You're showing some bias here "I suspect it will continue to be asked until a reasonable answer can provided".
    Define "reasonable" in this context.
    Apart from anything else is not knowledge for its own sake worthwhile?

    How about asking a slightly more general question: What is the purpose of knowing anything?
    Knowing something that can affect us within the boundaries of our exsistence is logical. Can you give a reasonable explanation what benifit we expect from the knowledge of the big bang?

    Apart from anything else is not knowledge for its own sake worthwhile?
    I am not sure about knowledge outside of our environment.
    I have no clue what happend to this quote.
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    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    Can you give a reasonable explanation what benifit we expect from the knowledge of the big bang?

    See later.

    I am not sure about knowledge outside of our environment.
    What?

    You answered this yourself -
    Knowing something that can affect us within the boundaries of our exsistence is logical.

    Since the Big Bang is responsible for the universe being the way it is don't you think that knowing how it occurred would lead us to having more knowledge of why the universe is the way it is and provide insight into its "inner functioning"?
    In other words - knowing how the universe started will give us information that relates to "the boundaries of our existence", since, by definition, the universe IS those boundaries.

    By your own argument (and I note that, as usual, you chose to ignore my questions) it is entirely logical that we should wish to know how the universe came about and how it "operates".
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    Basically, scientists want to know everything. It may not be possible to know everything but that's not going to stop them from trying. Not every scientist has an altruistic reason to know, because many are in it for the fame, position, money, and power. But I believe there are enough scientists that are seeking knowledge for the sake of knowledge.
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    We all have ways of testing our own reality Therapy, mine would be a 50 woman gangbang and I don't care what it takes for me to experience this epic orgy I just want a memory of it. Every ones the same with what ever it is they like doing, so I wonder why it is you try to put off the facts of science and its pursuit. Do you sit there next to the missus slappin her if she thinks for herself? Or are you like me and just don't understand all the big numbers and fancy number crunching, be honest?
    Depression is the uncertainty of the unknown, I know one day I'll die so I'm happy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    I have no clue what happend to this quote.
    So, why didn't you simply fix it?
    The purpose is to understand our Universe. Perhaps it will give us insight into how to manipulate spacetime. Perhaps it will give us insight into energy potential.
    Perhaps it will just be a mystery we would like solved.

    Quote Originally Posted by andythomasthekey View Post
    We all have ways of testing our own reality Therapy, mine would be a 50 woman gangbang and I don't care what it takes for me to experience this epic orgy I just want a memory of it.
    I doubt you could please one woman, much less fifty of them. I know I couldn't please fifty women. The first one would probably wear you out. Unless you can have fifty orgasms, the entire fantastical delusion is absurd. You would be in extreme physical discomfort after a portion of that crowd. Most of them would end up twiddling their thumbs waiting on you. What an unrealistic fantasy you have. Why did you share that? Did you really think we want to know how poorly you thought that out? What made you think others wanted to read about your gangbang fantasies? What is wrong with you?
    Even if I had such a stupid and unrealistic fantasy, I certainly wouldn't tell anyone about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by andythomasthekey View Post
    Or are you like me and just don't understand all the big numbers and fancy number crunching, be honest?
    You deserve credit for admitting that.
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    Malignant Pimple shlunka's Avatar
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    If an individual enjoys figuring out how the universe came into existence, is that not purpose? What is the purpose of anything without enjoying it? If I didn't enjoy learning, I wouldn't learn. If discovering the truths of our early universe, didn't intrigue those researching, would they be researching at all?
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    I doubt you could please one woman
    Its true, but if I work at it i'll get there. I bet when Nasa first started off there were people like you, suggesting what they where doing couldn't be achieved, but they got there, so they say...
    Depression is the uncertainty of the unknown, I know one day I'll die so I'm happy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andythomasthekey View Post
    I doubt you could please one woman
    Its true, but if I work at it i'll get there. I bet when Nasa first started off there were people like you, suggesting what they where doing couldn't be achieved, but they got there, so they say...
    <facepalm>
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    The quest for knowledge is an evolution driver, common in the animal kingdom. Greed stimulates curiosity, and the quest for knowledge gives advantages for the fittest to survive. Study Capitalism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumaMan View Post
    Basically, scientists want to know everything. It may not be possible to know everything but that's not going to stop them from trying. Not every scientist has an altruistic reason to know, because many are in it for the fame, position, money, and power. But I believe there are enough scientists that are seeking knowledge for the sake of knowledge.
    Do you think there must always be a rational or motive to acquiring knowledge?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    I have no clue what happend to this quote.
    So, why didn't you simply fix it?
    The purpose is to understand our Universe. Perhaps it will give us insight into how to manipulate spacetime. Perhaps it will give us insight into energy potential.
    Perhaps it will just be a mystery we would like solved.

    Quote Originally Posted by andythomasthekey View Post
    We all have ways of testing our own reality Therapy, mine would be a 50 woman gangbang and I don't care what it takes for me to experience this epic orgy I just want a memory of it.
    I doubt you could please one woman, much less fifty of them. I know I couldn't please fifty women. The first one would probably wear you out. Unless you can have fifty orgasms, the entire fantastical delusion is absurd. You would be in extreme physical discomfort after a portion of that crowd. Most of them would end up twiddling their thumbs waiting on you. What an unrealistic fantasy you have. Why did you share that? Did you really think we want to know how poorly you thought that out? What made you think others wanted to read about your gangbang fantasies? What is wrong with you?
    Even if I had such a stupid and unrealistic fantasy, I certainly wouldn't tell anyone about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by andythomasthekey View Post
    Or are you like me and just don't understand all the big numbers and fancy number crunching, be honest?
    You deserve credit for admitting that.
    So, why didn't you simply fix it?
    To be honest, I could not fix it because I did not know what went wrong, I am not a computer wiz as you are.

    The purpose is to understand our Universe. Perhaps it will give us insight into how to manipulate spacetime. Perhaps it will give us insight into energy potential.
    Perhaps it will just be a mystery we would like solved.
    Neverfly, I noticed you are using perhaps it will do something for us. In reality what can it do for us that we do not already have? I hear people say they would like to go into space, or I would like to experience space travel, hey man, we are in space and we are experiencing space travel.

    What would be the ultimate benifit to be able to manipulate space time? And if we found out all about time what would the rational be?
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    If an individual enjoys figuring out how the universe came into existence, is that not purpose? What is the purpose of anything without enjoying it? If I didn't enjoy learning, I wouldn't learn. If discovering the truths of our early universe, didn't intrigue those researching, would they be researching at all?
    There could be a purpose behind getting rid of poverty, acquiring knowledge for the main purpose of aquiring knowledge is like eating and not going to the toilet. What say you?
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    Boy...
    I wish we could enjoy eating without ever needing to go to the toilet. I mean, really. Is anyone else tired of it? Such a grossly inefficient system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sampson View Post
    The quest for knowledge is an evolution driver, common in the animal kingdom. Greed stimulates curiosity, and the quest for knowledge gives advantages for the fittest to survive. Study Capitalism.
    The quest for knowledge is an evolution driver,common in the animal kingdom.
    I would challenge that, maybe in another thread.


    and the quest for knowledge gives advantages for the fittest to survive. Study Capitalism.

    I agree that knowledge gives advantage for survival, however there is rational present in that thought, what about knowledge of the unknown? There must be a reason why you want to know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Boy...
    I wish we could enjoy eating without ever needing to go to the toilet. I mean, really. Is anyone else tired of it? Such a grossly inefficient system.
    You are throwing the baby out with the bath water. Ha ha ha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    You are throwing the baby out with the bath water. Ha ha ha.
    You think poop is more equivalent to the baby than to the bathwater? No. I'm just saying it would be nice to have the baby without the diapers and frankly, I think most people would be hard-pressed to not agree with the sentiment.
    And if they disagree and like poop- I don't want to know about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    I agree that knowledge gives advantage for survival, however there is rational present in that thought, what about knowledge of the unknown? There must be a reason why you want to know.
    Throughout the history of all animals, the wonderment of "what is that" or "what happens if I do this?" has often had beneficial consequences. Sometimes, not so beneficial, such as, "Don't eat that; you'll just die."
    But those that saw one of their number keel over after eating, say, mistletoe, benefited from that knowledge.

    Curiosity is a strong mammal trait. Wondering why, what or how has often led to improvement from their perspective.
    Cats and dogs will often investigate things. Many mammals do, and some do it with great determination and care. Most do it cautiously, as well. But more often than not, their investigations lead to amusement, delight, food, pleasure than they do to negative things like death, sickness, injury or displeasure. It does sometimes, which is why we are cautiously curious.

    We humans are able to conceive even more than most mammals. But the curiosity is the same- we are curious about other animals. We investigate them the same way a dog investigates a mouse.
    Mammals and birds often wonder about other animals elsewhere, and make exploratory calls, smelling and tracking scents and looking as far as they can see. We, too, have this trait we inherited from our distant relatives and we look as far as we can into space, sending out exploratory calls.

    It makes me wonder, for a planet that had an entirely different evolutionary line, what would they be like? Would they share the curiosity trait? Or would their evolutionary path have led them somewhere else which we would find incomprehensible?
    Which is why we look at space a bit cautiously. As exciting as is the prospect we are not alone, we also know that anything out there may be dangerous to us. Perhaps from radiation, invasive illnesses inducing bugs or from willful intentions of an incomprehensible being.
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    Neverfly, I agree we cannot help ourselves when it comes to the quest to know. As you say, curiosity is part of our make up. We give ourselves reason to know and we place rational to acquiring knowledge. Everything we do has an effect on our physical bodies; if it does not pass through our bodies, we cannot recognize it. Our beings are multidimensional, however we cannot know certain parts of ourselves, yet we function regardless of the lack of knowledge. There has to be a reason why this is so. You could very well question, how that can be that we cannot see a part of ourselves yet we function. For one reason or the other, we do not know how to ask the questions that might reveal the hidden part of our selves, yet we take it for granted that we are functioning properly.

    If we look at self-development, what does this mean, can we develop without knowing into what? If we know into what we want to develop then we would rationally seek the knowledge to make the changes we want to make. I am really stressing rationality versus purpose. Life as we know it cannot reveal all its purpose, I do not want to say secrets because a secret has its own time limit, but in revealing its secrets for this time frame can only be catastrophic if we are not prepared for the information we have forced out of it. We build great colliders to see how particles breakdown, if we surmise that particles break down when we make them collide then there must be a natural collider that does that job. If we acquire knowledge and do not or have not contemplated the reason we want this knowledge we will abuse it and bring about unintended results.


    We have moved from exploring matter and have now reached antimatter, yet we have not comprehensively understood matter. What we did with the knowledge of the atoms, we built bombs, what are we going to do with the knowledge of antimatter if it is achieved, I suspect we will build better bombs.


    Before I forget thanks for you kind words on the other thread.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post

    The quest for knowledge is an evolution driver,common in the animal kingdom.
    I would challenge that, maybe in another thread.
    Challenge what? Talk is cheap.

    and the quest for knowledge gives advantages for the fittest to survive. Study Capitalism.

    I agree that knowledge gives advantage for survival, however there is rational present in that thought, what about knowledge of the unknown? There must be a reason why you want to know.
    [/QUOTE] I thought I gave you a basic good answer. All knowledge is an unknown to a new born child. Have you ever watched a two year old? A 2 yr old has just learned to run, yell, scream, grasp, smell, hear, see and focus, etc. Have you heard of the "terrible twos"? That is a quest for knowledge, and it never stops until that person dies. You are on a quest for knowledge with this inquiry thread question. Why? Why did you start this thread?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    Neverfly, I agree we cannot help ourselves when it comes to the quest to know. As you say, curiosity is part of our make up.
    A nitpick: the trait is basic. It is also a matter of diversity. Many people are also perfectly content to not know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    Our beings are multidimensional
    What?
    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    There has to be a reason why this is so. You could very well question, how that can be that we cannot see a part of ourselves yet we function. For one reason or the other, we do not know how to ask the questions that might reveal the hidden part of our selves, yet we take it for granted that we are functioning properly.
    I don't agree. Change your perspective for a moment. Stop thinking of an animal as an individual. Imagine you're an alien sent to survey Earth. You report back to your superiors and they ask you, "What did you find?"
    You: "This planet has life on it. It is not like us, in any way, however."
    Supe: "What is it like?"
    You: "It's an entire planet composed of single cell organisms. There are no higher forms of life. They have very short lifespans, some only lasting a few of their solar cycles. Some only last a few of their planet rotations."
    Supe: "So, no intelligence, then?"
    You: "Well... That's a bit more complex... the single celled organisms seem to have somehow stacked up upon eachother. They adapted to specialized uses in order to create gigantic beings that work to benefit the cells maintenance, reproduction and survival. Some of those cells, while unintelligent, stacked together into a complex inter-working system that mimics intelligence effectively."
    Supe: "So... there is no actual intelligence but there is a facsimile of it?"
    You: "Effectively, yes. It's a good bit of mimicry, and since it's a complex system, very difficult to tell the difference between it and intelligence. You could say it's just a matter of a different way of getting from A to B."
    Supe: "Seems an inefficient way of doing it. An entire planet of nothing but single celled organisms... Who would have imagined it?"
    You: "Yes, the findings were a bit startling, Sir. I had to re-check the scans several times to be sure. Especially since the gigantic stacks seem mostly oblivious to being nothing more than colonies of defined lifeforms. They think they are the dominant lifeforms. The intelligence is based on a 'legacy of information,' passed on and maintained by the stacked cells rather than acquiring full information since their lifespans are so short and no cell really experiences intelligence."
    Supe: "They don't know they are made of cells?"
    You: "They know it... They just don't really accept it. As you said: Inefficient. The massive stacks ignore the cells for the most part and the cells are as oblivious to the function of the stacks other than they get nutrients. I recommend we leave them alone and observe for a few hundred thousand years and see what happens. We may want to initiate contact after that."
    Supe: "Very well... Write up a full report in case you are transferred to another department before we make contact so that your replacement knows the full situation. Single cells... living in massive colonies. Very intriguing."
    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    If we look at self-development, what does this mean, can we develop without knowing into what?
    That is what we're doing, anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    We have moved from exploring matter and have now reached antimatter, yet we have not comprehensively understood matter. What we did with the knowledge of the atoms, we built bombs, what are we going to do with the knowledge of antimatter if it is achieved, I suspect we will build better bombs.
    Our knowledge and exploration has brought us great benefit, as well. That short term benefit may also bring us great harm. In the end, is it not better to understand and know as much as we can so that we are able to confront "harm" or "benefit" than to be ignorantly consigned to fate?
    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    Before I forget thanks for you kind words on the other thread.
    I made no kind words. I simply expressed an opinion.
    Last edited by Neverfly; May 9th, 2013 at 12:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Boy...
    I wish we could enjoy eating without ever needing to go to the toilet. I mean, really. Is anyone else tired of it? Such a grossly inefficient system.
    A strong arguement against Intelligent Design.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Boy...
    I wish we could enjoy eating without ever needing to go to the toilet. I mean, really. Is anyone else tired of it? Such a grossly inefficient system.
    Another argument against intelligent design: having to ingest food and water through the same orifice as we (and many, many other animals) have to breathe through. I admit faces would look a bit funny with another orifice but we'd get used to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumaMan View Post
    Another argument against intelligent design: having to ingest food and water through the same orifice as we (and many, many other animals) have to breathe through.
    You mean ... you don't have a ... nose? <shudder>

    (And you let many other animals breath through your mouth? Eww.)

    Actually, I think most other animals can swallow and breath at the same time. It is the price we pay for being able to speak.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    Neverfly, I agree we cannot help ourselves when it comes to the quest to know. As you say, curiosity is part of our make up.
    A nitpick: the trait is basic. It is also a matter of diversity. Many people are also perfectly content to not know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    Our beings are multidimensional
    What?
    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    There has to be a reason why this is so. You could very well question, how that can be that we cannot see a part of ourselves yet we function. For one reason or the other, we do not know how to ask the questions that might reveal the hidden part of our selves, yet we take it for granted that we are functioning properly.
    I don't agree. Change your perspective for a moment. Stop thinking of an animal as an individual. Imagine you're an alien sent to survey Earth. You report back to your superiors and they ask you, "What did you find?"
    You: "This planet has life on it. It is not like us, in any way, however."
    Supe: "What is it like?"
    You: "It's an entire planet composed of single cell organisms. There are no higher forms of life. They have very short lifespans, some only lasting a few of their solar cycles. Some only last a few of their planet rotations."
    Supe: "So, no intelligence, then?"
    You: "Well... That's a bit more complex... the single celled organisms seem to have somehow stacked up upon eachother. They adapted to specialized uses in order to create gigantic beings that work to benefit the cells maintenance, reproduction and survival. Some of those cells, while unintelligent, stacked together into a complex inter-working system that mimics intelligence effectively."
    Supe: "So... there is no actual intelligence but there is a facsimile of it?"
    You: "Effectively, yes. It's a good bit of mimicry, and since it's a complex system, very difficult to tell the difference between it and intelligence. You could say it's just a matter of a different way of getting from A to B."
    Supe: "Seems an inefficient way of doing it. An entire planet of nothing but single celled organisms... Who would have imagined it?"
    You: "Yes, the findings were a bit startling, Sir. I had to re-check the scans several times to be sure. Especially since the gigantic stacks seem mostly oblivious to being nothing more than colonies of defined lifeforms. They think they are the dominant lifeforms. The intelligence is based on a 'legacy of information,' passed on and maintained by the stacked cells rather than acquiring full information since their lifespans are so short and no cell really experiences intelligence."
    Supe: "They don't know they are made of cells?"
    You: "They know it... They just don't really accept it. As you said: Inefficient. The massive stacks ignore the cells for the most part and the cells are as oblivious to the function of the stacks other than they get nutrients. I recommend we leave them alone and observe for a few hundred thousand years and see what happens. We may want to initiate contact after that."
    Supe: "Very well... Write up a full report in case you are transferred to another department before we make contact so that your replacement knows the full situation. Single cells... living in massive colonies. Very intriguing."
    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    If we look at self-development, what does this mean, can we develop without knowing into what?
    That is what we're doing, anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    We have moved from exploring matter and have now reached antimatter, yet we have not comprehensively understood matter. What we did with the knowledge of the atoms, we built bombs, what are we going to do with the knowledge of antimatter if it is achieved, I suspect we will build better bombs.
    Our knowledge and exploration has brought us great benefit, as well. That short term benefit may also bring us great harm. In the end, is it not better to understand and know as much as we can so that we are able to confront "harm" or "benefit" than to be ignorantly consigned to fate?
    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    Before I forget thanks for you kind words on the other thread.
    I made no kind words. I simply expressed an opinion.
    I like the way you are looking at it, just the same, you are relating intelligence to your own, and because you are doing that, the one-cell beings that you are reporting on must have some sort of intelligence to be able to do something by stacking up in order to get it done. To some extent, you are quantifying intelligence, and I agree that there has to be something to start with in order to grow.

    Our knowledge and exploration has brought us great benefit, as well. That short term benefit may also bring us great harm. In the end, is it not better to understand and know as much as we can so that we are able to confront "harm" or "benefit" than to be ignorantly consigned to fate?
    I guess we have to look at the comparison in terms of benefit, yes. Some people are afraid to die and so any invention to alleviate this dread, would be considered a benefit, but is that really so. We might be able to prolong the process of living, but are we really benefitting? Did we set out to prolong or to illuminate? If we are saying there is a benefit to live longer, what is the reason if we cannot find a purpose?


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    Quote Originally Posted by PumaMan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Boy...
    I wish we could enjoy eating without ever needing to go to the toilet. I mean, really. Is anyone else tired of it? Such a grossly inefficient system.
    Another argument against intelligent design: having to ingest food and water through the same orifice as we (and many, many other animals) have to breathe through. I admit faces would look a bit funny with another orifice but we'd get used to it.
    And as you say we get used to anything. Just as anything can be habit forming.
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  28. #27  
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    NF I liked your analogy of what we are, the aliens are the same but just don't know it infinity.
    Depression is the uncertainty of the unknown, I know one day I'll die so I'm happy.
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by andythomasthekey View Post
    NF I liked your analogy of what we are, the aliens are the same but just don't know it infinity.
    That's not what I said, at all. I think that went over your head.

    Anyway, I thought about the whole I.D. thing and almost went on a long rant about it- but opted out.
    Last edited by Neverfly; May 9th, 2013 at 09:39 PM.
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  30. #29  
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    I got it bud, basically we are a million, billion cells working as one. The aliens came to observe us, noted what we are but went away not thinking are they the same, are they being watched also and so on.
    Depression is the uncertainty of the unknown, I know one day I'll die so I'm happy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post

    And as you say we get used to anything. Just as anything can be habit forming.

    (the allegorical seed is an idea to pass a sense of continuity)

    your destiny is dependent on your habits, your habits are formed by repetition.
    Depression is the uncertainty of the unknown, I know one day I'll die so I'm happy.
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    Neverfly, In post # 25 I said we humans are multidimentional, and you replied "What" I was a bit thrown back, I was wondering was I using the word in the wrong way. Are you saying we are not multidimentional? or was the "what" pertaining to something else?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    Neverfly, In post # 25 I said we humans are multidimentional, and you replied "What" I was a bit thrown back, I was wondering was I using the word in the wrong way. Are you saying we are not multidimentional? or was the "what" pertaining to something else?
    I have no idea what you mean by "Humans are multidimensional."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    Neverfly, In post # 25 I said we humans are multidimentional, and you replied "What" I was a bit thrown back, I was wondering was I using the word in the wrong way. Are you saying we are not multidimentional? or was the "what" pertaining to something else?
    I have no idea what you mean by "Humans are multidimensional."
    When I looked up the word, multidimensional, I understood it to be saying more that two dimensions. We humans move on a three dimensional plane, which means we are multidimensional beings. I will not take it any farther although I see dimensions differently in terms of spirit, as you know that is not welcomed on TSF. I used the word multidimensional because it was more than two dimensions. Do you see what I am saying? I asked you if it was wrong the way I used it knowing that my knowledge of English at times is not adequate to explain my self correctly.
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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    We humans move on a three dimensional plane

    Three dimensions is a volume: you only need two for a plane.

    I will not take it any farther although I see dimensions differently in terms of spirit, as you know that is not welcomed on TSF.
    Do you know why it's "not welcomed"?
    Because it's nonsense.

    I used the word multidimensional because it was more than two dimensions.
    And has no bearing whatsoever on what you were saying.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    We humans move on a three dimensional plane

    Three dimensions is a volume: you only need two for a plane.

    I will not take it any farther although I see dimensions differently in terms of spirit, as you know that is not welcomed on TSF.
    Do you know why it's "not welcomed"?
    Because it's nonsense.

    I used the word multidimensional because it was more than two dimensions.

    And has no bearing whatsoever on what you were saying.
    I am open to correction, that is the only way forward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    Do you see what I am saying?
    Yes.

    I see that you are claiming that you are saying that humans simply are three dimensional, while covertly saying that humans are spiritually dimensional without wanting to admit it openly.

    Your claim amounts to this:
    You believe that the supernatural, diving, etc is on some spiritual plane of existence that we cannot measure. It's excluded, or outside of measurement, observation or detection.

    How irrational. You may as well place unicorns, cheeze-whiz snorting space dragons, gnomes, elves and anything else you fancy as simply outside of measurement and observation. By moving the goal posts, you validate any fanciful notion that you can make up.
    Now, if you want to believe in such absurdities that you carefully protect from observation with invented absurdities you make up off the top of your head- fine.
    But don't introduce it on a Science Forum and expect it to go unchallenged.
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    Knowing about the Big Bang and how the universe came to be probably does us no good whatsoever. It puts no food on the table. It is just a thing of curiosity.
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    If we humans want to remain ignorant about where we came from, what things are made of and billions of other things we want to understand then all those who do not want to learn anything have to do is stop learning, reading and discussing things they know nothing about and don't want to learn anything about.

    Then again there are many who do want to learn and want to understand as much as possible for them understanding things is paramount to living a good well balanced life. To sit around and fish all day, to some, is the only thing they need do and that's up to them. But when humans have free will they choose what they want out of life and then go about doing that.

    So to anyone not wanting to know, you can do just that because those who want to understand will do what they want to, that's their choice and both can get along just fine if they respect each others rights.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
    Jimi Hendrix
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    To sit around and fish all day, to some, is the only thing they need do and that's up to them.
    Now, that sounds like something I would be interested in. However....... I found the greatest thrill in fly fishing is the release. You get to watch your catch recover and swim back home. I also discovered that I and no other fisherman is ever really happy sitting there, we are always seeking knowledge. WE want to know the weather, the temp. of the water, the hatch of the flies, the size of the bait that is catching the most, etc. Something always occupying the depths of the mind from the size of the hook to the color of the bait. To sit and think nothing, or to have an empty mental time is damn near impossible to accomplish. *Think about it..... or don't.
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    There's not necessarily a 'purpose' for knowing anything; although, the knowledge of many concepts have helped us towards survival. I don't think knowledge of what happend before the big bang is really necessary for living a happy fullfilling life.

    But we have evolved to be curious and inquisitive beings and we simply cannot help but be curious about everything that surrounds us.
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