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Thread: Beginning of the End of the theory of evolution?

  1. #1 Beginning of the End of the theory of evolution? 
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    Last months among geologists circulating information that recent studies of karst terrains are the beginning of end of the theory of uniformitarianism and theory of evolution?

    Title of one of the articles is: "Karst landforms submerge evolution?" (I am sanding it below; it is free).

    The analysis of the depth of minor karst landforms (karren) created by the dissolution of carbonate rocks by rainwater with the known dissolution rate, provides the answer to the question of how long these rocks have been exposed to atmospheric conditions (1, 2).

    Carbonate rocks are amongst the most widespread rocks on the Earth. They cover as much as 12 % of the Earth’s land surface. It is believed that most of these rocks have been formed by underwater sedimentation.

    The most recent concept in karstology presented in the paper "A new view on karst genesis" (2) suggests that most karst landforms (karst depressions–sinkholes, uvalas, poljes; and corrosion karst conduits) have been formed at great depths below the sea level, more precisely below the lysocline (at the depth of approximately 4000 m), where rapid dissolution of carbonate sediments has occurred due to the enormous pressure. Water withdrawal and strong turbulent flows have resulted in the expansion of one part of karst conduits and the formation of vast caves (2). According to this concept, the only karst landforms formed by the solvent action of rainwater (enriched with CO2) are karren.

    The analysis of the so–called classic karst which exists in the Dinarides (41–45°N, 13–19°E, altitude between 0 and 2,694 m) has revealed that the karren depth in compact carbonate rocks ranges up to 50 cm (2). Data on the dissolution rate of rocks in the same area (3, 4) suggest that the rate of karren deepening can amount to 1 cm per 100 years. Following this data, it can be estimated that the terrains built up of carbonate rocks in the Dinarides could have been exposed to atmospheric conditions just 5,000 years ago. Considering that the average karren depth at different altitudes is rather equal, it can be concluded that both the lowest and the highest point in this area have been exposed to atmospheric conditions for nearly the same amount of time, i.e. the water withdrawal has occurred relatively quickly.

    Therefore, if macro karst depressions (sinkholes, uvalas and poljes), which can also be found at almost every altitude, have been formed at great depths below the sea level (2), it can be concluded that the entire Earth's surface was covered with water at one point. If the water withdrew just around 5,000 years ago and it occurred relatively quickly, then it is necessary to reconsider the validity of numerous scientific theories or even the validity of the theory of the evolution of living things on the Earth.

    References:
    1. I. Mrak, Minor karst landforms as an indirect method for datation–the case study valley Pod Košuto (Slovenia). Acta Carstologica. 33, 45–59 (2004).
    2. M. M. Radulović, A new view on karst genesis. Carbonates Evaporites. doi:10.1007/s13146-012-0125-2 (2013).
    3. I. Gams, Factors and dynamics of corrosion of the carbonatic rocks in the Dinaric and Alpine karst of Slovenia (Yugoslavia) (in Slovenian). Geograf. Vesn. 38, 11–68 (1966).
    4. I. Gams, Doline morphogenetic processes from global and local viewpoint. Acta Carstologica. 29, 123–138 (2000).


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  3. #2  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musla View Post
    [ nice joke ]
    I think it is the beginning of the end of this thread.


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  4. #3  
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    Positive joke is welcom!
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musla View Post
    Therefore, if macro karst depressions (sinkholes, uvalas and poljes), which can also be found at almost every altitude, have been formed at great depths below the sea level (2), it can be concluded that the entire Earth's surface was covered with water at one point.
    I am not a geologist but I can see several very obvious flaws with this statement. For example, are there karst deposits on the entire Earth's surface? Why is altitude relevant? Over what period were these deposits formed?

    I see nothing to support your conclusion that "the entire Earth's surface was covered with water" nor that it must have been at "one point" in time.

    If the water withdrew just around 5,000 years ago and it occurred relatively quickly
    And where is the evidence for that?
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  6. #5  
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    This is the paper (published in official Springer's journal Carbonates and Evaporites; link: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007% 2Fs13146-012-0125-2), which indicates that the macro karst features formed at great depths below the ocean, and that the only micro karst forms (karren) are formed by diluent action of atmospheric waters. By measuring the depth of the micro forms is estimated that these rocks were exposed to atmospheric conditions around 5,000 years ago (reference 1 is given only to show that it is a regular dating method). If the carbonate rocks are most widespread on the planet were completely submerged 5,000 years ago (eg. Mount Everest is made of carbonate rocks - limestones), it is clear that there was not enough time for Evolution.
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    The conclusion „the entire Earth's surface was covered with water" support fact that macro forms are distributed on each altitudes (on the Tibetan plateau; above 4,500 masl), and if explanation published in Springer's journal, that macro forms are formed at great depths below the ocean, is correct, than the entire Earth's surface was covered with water.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musla View Post
    If the carbonate rocks are most widespread on the planet were completely submerged 5,000 years ago (eg. Mount Everest is made of carbonate rocks - limestones
    And as that is clearly impossible, then the 5,000 year figure must be incorrect.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    The conclusion „the entire Earth's surface was covered with water" support fact that macro forms are&nbsp;distributed&nbsp;on each&nbsp;altitudes&nbsp;(on the&nbsp;Tibetan&nbsp;plateau; above 4,500 masl), and if explanation published in Springer's journal, that macro forms are formed at great depths below the ocean, is correct, than the entire Earth's surface was covered with water.<br>
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    This is lame...
    Quote Originally Posted by Musla View Post
    By measuring the depth of the micro forms is estimated that these rocks were exposed to atmospheric conditions around 5,000 years ago (reference 1 is given only to show that it is a regular dating method)
    Yes so what ? Some rocks are aging since 5000 th years. Maybe at that time they where in a dessert, and the rain start falling. Maybe a giant turtle start peeing on them, who knows ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Musla View Post
    If the carbonate rocks are most widespread on the planet were completely submerged 5,000 years ago
    And if lizards had wings... how, but some do, thanks to natural selection

    Quote Originally Posted by Musla View Post
    (eg. Mount Everest is made of carbonate rocks - limestones)
    Yes and decide all by himself to get a lifting of 8000 meter. Ho, but I forget, the giant turtles have drunk the ocean. Silly me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musla View Post
    it is clear that there was not enough time for Evolution.
    It is clear you are completely lost in mythology.

    If you are rich enough, I can write for you a few dozen theories that would be a little more rational. The problem is that you have to pay me one million euro's, which according to you, had not "evolved" from a rigged currency system, and was created 5000 years ago
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    Carbonates rocks are widespread on all continents and all altitudes, that is no doubt. You can find map of distribution of carbonates rocks on Earth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musla View Post
    Carbonates rocks are widespread on all continents and all altitudes, that is no doubt. You can find map of distribution of carbonates rocks on Earth.
    Broken article link, preposterous claims reinforced with illogical reasoning that ignore geology of past 4+ billion years do not support your ideas.
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  13. #12  
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    If the top of the hill was flooded that is clear that the the foothill was flooded too.
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    Yes but I speak about last 5,000 years. I think that top of the hill before 5,000 years was on same place where it is today.
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    I'm talking about the latest research that has been published in the official journals.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musla View Post
    I'm talking about the latest research that has been published in the official journals.
    You are talking about one article, which you like because it supports your delusion. I am unable to read the paper so I cannot tell if it actually supports what you claim or not. As what you claim is physically impossible (where did all that water come from and where has it gone now, for example) then either:

    1) The paper is incorrect in proposing a data of 5,000 years

    Or:

    2) You are misunderstanding and/or misrepresenting the information in that paper.

    Either way, your assertion is ludicrous and unsupported. But thanks for playing. Better luck next time.
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  19. #18  
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    Musla, can we assume then that you are Milan M. Radulović, PhD? Or just a fan?
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    I copied article by Milan M. Radulovic, I explained that on begining in first post
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  21. #20  
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    So you prefer to violate Springer Verlag's his copyright than provide a link (which would have also provided the images)?

    Edit: That paper not published. For obvious reasons.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    I didn't post that link. I tried to put it on beginning, but I received message that I can not post links in first post.
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    Yes but if Tibetan plateau, where solution sinkholes are distributed, was below lysocline i.e. 4,000 m below sea level than Mt Everest also was below sea level (Lysocline is the deep from which dissolution of carbonates increase dramatically).
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    Looking at his two papers, what Radulović has done is write one publishable paper with the usual scientific caveats like, "preliminary", "hypothesis", possibility", "the evidence suggests", "further confirmation", etc.

    Then he writes another unpublishable paper which basically says, "and therefore evolution is wrong" which is presumably being promoted on creationist websites where it is picked up by the gullible who then promote it on science websites.

    I can't decide if that is quite clever or deeply dishonest ... maybe it it is cleverly dishonest.
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    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musla View Post
    Yes but if Tibetan plateau, where solution sinkholes are distributed, was below lysocline i.e. 4,000 m below sea level than Mt Everest also was below sea level (Lysocline is the deep from which dissolution of carbonates increase dramatically).
    The sedimentation on the upper 1/3 of Mt Everest has been consistantly shown to be Ordovician in age, so about 400 million years old. This formation is NOT 5000 years old.
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    Not sure what the point is...... If the OP is saying that evolution cannot happen in 5000 years then am I to assume that if it can be proven the Earth wasn't totally covered by water then evolution is acceptable? I think the OP has unwittingly set itself up to look like fool's babble. All it takes is one OP fact that can be debunked and evolution is the real deal.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  27. #26  
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    Nah, this is definitely the last nail in the coffin of evolution.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Nah, this is definitely the last nail in the coffin of evolution.
    LOL....What about the fish?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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