Thread: Sensory Junkies

We blame science and religion for our many problems, but I believe this to be nonsense. Our problem is our human nature, for we want more of what money can buy and this caused people to became “sensory junkies” and lost the ability to see or experience things for what they really are. If we have this amazing cognitive ability very few people are using it and most of us have lost it which brings me to my next point, namely being conscious.

We claim to be conscious and if I understand this accurately its because we can form ideas or thoughts, right? But where do these ideas come from since I haven’t seen or touched one. So if I don’t know where this idea is “stored” or what the ingredients is or where to look for it, how is it then possible to form ideas if i don’t know were the original idea came from. I am still stuck at this question, and forever will be but this hasn't stopped me thinking about it, why? Whats meant by unconsciousness, god or the meaning of life is at best only words for me, bringing me to my next point, us.

Whether religion or god is real, is not my place nor do I want to comment on it, but what I despise is the mixing of science with religion. The only conclusion that I can draw from this is that a number of people want to make some sense of what religion is, often with ulterior motives. What I detest even more is the constant argument between nonbelievers and believers and that intelligence seems to play a large role in this argument. What rubbish. It easy to stand on the sideline for nonbelievers and use science which you probably know very little of, if any as a tool for reasoning.

Another point I want to make is information hoarding by internet users, especially in philosophy forums. We have all read numerous philosophy text, but sometimes you have to take a step back and try to form your own…Some of you will agree that reading a philosophy book for the first time, when re-reading it, its seems like you haven't read it at all. Is this not telling you something?

Whats ironic is that the mystery of the universe, consciousness and religion is for some people not enough, to the extent that they create their own conspiracy theories??

Originally Posted by Ligte

We blame science and religion for our many problems

Who does? Source please.

Our problem is our human nature, for we want more of what money can buy and this caused people to became “sensory junkies” and lost the ability to see or experience things for what they really are.

Well that's your unsupported contention anyway.

We claim to be conscious and if I understand this accurately its because we can form ideas or thoughts, right?

Wrong. We claim to conscious because we're aware of ourselves and our surroundings.

But where do these ideas come from since I haven’t seen or touched one.

Huh? When was the last time you touched a "metre" or a kilogramme"?

So if I don’t know where this idea is “stored” or what the ingredients is or where to look for it, how is it then possible to form ideas if i don’t know were the original idea came from. I am still stuck at this question, and forever will be but this hasn't stopped me thinking about it, why?

In the brain - neurochemicals.

Whats meant by unconsciousness, god or the meaning of life is at best only words for me, bringing me to my next point, us.

In order - being NOT conscious, depends who you ask and depends who you ask.

Whether religion or god is real, is not my place nor do I want to comment on it, but what I despise is the mixing of science with religion.

You can't mix religion and science. They're essentially antithetical.

The only conclusion that I can draw from this is that a number of people want to make some sense of what religion is, often with ulterior motives.

We generally want to make sense of everything. It's part of what being human is. What "ulterior motives"?

What I detest even more is the constant argument between nonbelievers and believers and that intelligence seems to play a large role in this argument. What rubbish.

Oh I'm glad that's sorted out then. Thanks, you've saved us all a huge amount of time, thought and debate.

It easy to stand on the sideline for nonbelievers and use science which you probably know very little of, if any as a tool for reasoning.

Um, just one question: if you don't know any science how can you use it for reasoning?
Wait! Two questions - what does "nonbelievers" have to do with "using science"?

Another point I want to make is information hoarding by internet users, especially in philosophy forums. We have all read numerous philosophy text, but sometimes you have to take a step back and try to form your own…Some of you will agree that reading a philosophy book for the first time, when re-reading it, its seems like you haven't read it at all. Is this not telling you something?

That you can't get your point across? You complain about "hoarding of information by internet users" and then go on to say you can't grasp the contents of a book. How does that work?

Whats ironic is that the mystery of the universe, consciousness and religion is for some people not enough, to the extent that they create their own conspiracy theories??

Conspiracy theories? Like secret internet information hoarders abounding?

Originally Posted by Ligte

We blame science and religion for our many problems, but I believe this to be nonsense. Our problem is our human nature, for we want more of what money can buy and this caused people to became “sensory junkies” and lost the ability to see or experience things for what they really are. If we have this amazing cognitive ability very few people are using it and most of us have lost it which brings me to my next point, namely being conscious.

Ok yes here you are correct, almost from the moment we are born the conditioning begins, we are conditioned to want money and the things it can buy. All of us have needs, we need food, shelter, a mate, entertainment etc...., so we seek money to obtain the things we need, but what happens then is we are convinced we need more and more things and thus we seek more money to obtain them. Yes this can be a problem and can take over our lives, but equallly not having enough for the real things we need can be equally problematic, it's about finding that happy balance of having enough to be happily comfortable and satisfied, this the point at which we can just sit back and enjoy life, it's at this point that people can just stop for a while from this endless cycle of consumerism and reconnect with some of the truely important things in life, for example getting back to nature or just going for a long walk in the country and really enjoying it without thought or concern for anything else.

Originally Posted by Ligte

We claim to be conscious and if I understand this accurately its because we can form ideas or thoughts, right? But where do these ideas come from since I haven’t seen or touched one. So if I don’t know where this idea is “stored” or what the ingredients is or where to look for it, how is it then possible to form ideas if i don’t know were the original idea came from. I am still stuck at this question, and forever will be but this hasn't stopped me thinking about it, why? Whats meant by unconsciousness, god or the meaning of life is at best only words for me, bringing me to my next point, us.

I think all ideas and thoughts are the product of a constant on going thought process, ok we have new thoughts all the time but these are inspired by our experiences and sensory imputs, what we see, hear or read. Perhaps this thought process at times might lead us to dwell on the really big things like "where did we come from?" or "what are we here for?" but it can also lead us to appreciate the moment or small things like the smell of freshly baked bread, or coffee or perhaps even a flower, it can lead to us to contemplate the beauty of design of a butterfly or how nice a cool breeze may feel on a really hot day, it's just really that strange unpredictable voice in our heads that's always with us.

Originally Posted by Ligte

Whether religion or god is real, is not my place nor do I want to comment on it, but what I despise is the mixing of science with religion. The only conclusion that I can draw from this is that a number of people want to make some sense of what religion is, often with ulterior motives. What I detest even more is the constant argument between nonbelievers and believers and that intelligence seems to play a large role in this argument. What rubbish. It easy to stand on the sideline for nonbelievers and use science which you probably know very little of, if any as a tool for reasoning.

Religion is based on people's idea of what might be without ever really actually knowing, it might actually be right that some has guessed what does indeed turn out to be true but really what are the odds? God may well exist, the truth is we simply don't know, science deals in evidence rather than speculation and is why it doesn't always work well with religion. The difference is if you ask many scientists whether God exists many will tell they don't honestly know but they may think not, but ask many a religious person and they are convinced God exists but can't explain why. This doesn't really mean that either are wrong, just that it can be very difficult to understand at times. Also a real problem that exists within religion is change, even when some things within a religion are proved to be wrong many followers simply will not accept it, it's almost as if they are brain washed into believing a fallacy end of story, but in science if something is proved wrong then the science changes to accept the new reality and so do the scientists. This is why many believers in science have a problem taking most religions seriously.

Originally Posted by Ligte

Another point I want to make is information hoarding by internet users, especially in philosophy forums. We have all read numerous philosophy text, but sometimes you have to take a step back and try to form your own…Some of you will agree that reading a philosophy book for the first time, when re-reading it, its seems like you haven't read it at all. Is this not telling you something?

Ok well I'm not really sure what you mean here but I do think there are many types of people out there and if you find the right ones well they just want to share what they have learned and it's from these people we are all capable of learning something new.

Originally Posted by Ligte

Whats ironic is that the mystery of the universe, consciousness and religion is for some people not enough, to the extent that they create their own conspiracy theories??

Some people are just that little bit more predisposed to seeing things in terms of conspiracies or perhaps in a way that might be considered a little bit sinister or unecessarily mysterious. I think this is just the way that people put information together and perhaps see patterns that others wouldn't, occassionaly and I mean very occassionaly this can happen to be correct and these patterns are valid, but more often than not the patterns don't really add up. It's a bit like staring at clouds look hard and long enough and you'll find anything, the same with information patterns the harder you look the more you find to fit into your expanding conspiracy theory.

thanks for the reply ascended

On the subject of where an idea comes from. If we are smart enough to understand how the brain works, we would be so stupid we wouldn't be able to understand it anyway (I wish I could remember where I read this). In other words we understand the workings of a single cell for example, but can a cell understand how it works. I have my doubts. This principle also applies to us, doesn't it? If it does, how can we debate about a god, consciousness or the idea of it.

Your point about change in science is exact, and that is science is self-correcting. i see this in numerous scientific journals where articles are taken back due to corrupt scientist and all it took was someone repeating the experiment. I wish the same can be said for religion.

Originally Posted by Ligte

On the subject of where an idea comes from. If we are smart enough to understand how the brain works, we would be so stupid we wouldn't be able to understand it anyway (I wish I could remember where I read this). In other words we understand the workings of a single cell for example, but can a cell understand how it works. I have my doubts. This principle also applies to us, doesn't it? If it does, how can we debate about a god, consciousness or the idea of it.

I'm not so sure of this, I think we 'are' capable of understanding really complex things, just that we rationalise them in a more simplistic way, without necessarily understanding all the complexities, we might for example have a basic understanding of how a television works but without really understanding what each little component does.