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Thread: Ophiolite is John Galt

  1. #1 Ophiolite is John Galt 
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    For reasons now buried in the mists of time I have posted on this forum in two guises: as John Galt and as Ophiolite. This was not done to decieve, but I have become increasingly uncomfortable that the truth may have occured to some members and they might think I was trying some weird form of deception. I wasn't. When I posted as Ophiolite I did not post at that time as JG and vice versa. (Exception: I think there was one occasion when I was bored and may have had a debate with myself. )

    I imagine most of you will rightly say "who cares", but if this bothers anyone please accept my apology for the discomfort caused.

    Thanks

    John Galt aka Ophiolite


     

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  3. #2  
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    It bothers me. You need to be more clear. Are you saying that you intentionally alternated between two handles? Or are you saying you happened to use two handles at different times and one fell into disuse?
    There is a very big difference.

    One is deception. It is sock puppetry and it serves no intention other than to deceive and is grounds for permanent banning on any forum I have ever been on. Including a perma-banned member here whom you gave harsh words to for having done so while "conducting an experiment" against other members knowledge here.

    The other is a more honest mistake, similar to SugurdV or SigurdW- where he simply wanted the user name he identifies with when it seemed unavailable and is not really a big deal other than to merge accounts.

    I think you might want to clear the air a bit more.

    You were bored and had a debate with yourself?! And you're claiming it was not for deception? And you gave Futilitist such a hard time for that kind of behavior?


     

  4. #3  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Not news but I kept quiet because I assumed there was some reason you hadn't admitted it.
    But I never assumed any attempt at deception.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  5. #4  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    I think there was one occasion when I was bored and may have had a debate with myself
    Was anyone else involved? I would hate to think of it turning into a mass debate ...
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
     

  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    John Galt aka Ophiolite
    That was totally obvious, you had the same internet persona. At least you were consistently as wrong in both guise.

    The only victims I know of is you and Futilitist. You triggers is paranoďa alert, like he have trigger yours.

    I don't think you apologies to the right audience.
    Last edited by Boing3000; January 25th, 2013 at 12:58 PM.
     

  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    For reasons now buried in the mists of time I have posted on this forum in two guises: as John Galt and as Ophiolite. This was not done to decieve, but I have become increasingly uncomfortable that the truth may have occured to some members and they might think I was trying some weird form of deception. I wasn't. When I posted as Ophiolite I did not post at that time as JG and vice versa. (Exception: I think there was one occasion when I was bored and may have had a debate with myself. )

    I imagine most of you will rightly say "who cares", but if this bothers anyone please accept my apology for the discomfort caused.

    Thanks

    John Galt aka Ophiolite
    I thought, at one time, it was possible simply because both John Galt and Ophiolite were opposed to the BB Theory on philosophical grounds.
    I prefer the the name "John Galt" altho' I have no good reason for saying that.
     

  8. #7  
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    To be clear, this has been known among the mods since he started duties as mod and at least by me pretty much since John Galt first appeared. He can speak for himself, but I assure you there were no underhanded intentions. If you'll notice, Ophiolite and John has contributed by a large margin the highest number of posts on this forum and he has maintained a consistent quality throughout. He is an integral and indispensable member of this forum.

    Not sure which name I prefer, but I do recall him being called "Coprolite" by a disgruntled ex-moderator once.
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  9. #8  
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    I'd be one who would be quick to support and defend Galt, and Ophiolite as I've gotten a kick out of Ophiolite's posts in past reading and found them refreshing. I never put any thought into whether they were the same person or seen enough of phiolites posts to have made that determination, anyway.

    However, I think my points could have validity. Underhanded is a relative term and is no excuse.
    I've been banned on forums, accused of some pretty bad things on forums and had grievances which I lacked the ability to express and yet, I've never once created a sock puppet. Ever.
    I find it to be a method of deception- breaking others trust.
    This doesn't mean all socks are deception. NMsquirrels introduction required one as did his offspring. (lol I said offspring... heh) And I pointed out Sigurds, as well.

    But bored and had a debate with himself? Yeah, we can all have fun sometimes. But that just seems a little weird to me. I never saw it, though.

    That he came forward and said, "Oh, by the way, I have this other ID" raises questions and he hardly can expect that others should accept that without question.
     

  10. #9  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    just for the record : Ophiolite posted his last post on 19-Oct-2011, a few months after the new admin had taken the reins of the forum
    i seem to remember that he said the dual membership was of advantage in the dark days of the adminship of Bunsen and Beaker, and presumably he wanted to make sure that the new admin was of a different calibre (which he is)
    also for the record, there was no overlap between Ophiolite's active posting period and John Galt taking up the position of moderator, which was on 19-May-2012
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR View Post
    just for the record : Ophiolite posted his last post on 19-Oct-2011, a few months after the new admin had taken the reins of the forum
    i seem to remember that he said the dual membership was of advantage in the dark days of the adminship of Bunsen and Beaker, and presumably he wanted to make sure that the new admin was of a different calibre (which he is)
    also for the record, there was no overlap between Ophiolite's active posting period and John Galt taking up the position of moderator, which was on 19-May-2012
    Which is one of the two I asked about. That makes perfect sense. Although, that suggests a slight amount of deception there- I'd term it as deception with purpose.
    lol.
    Ophiolite was before my time and I've only encountered the posts as Past Posts.
     

  12. #11  
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    Wow I remember reading one of "Ophiolite"s posts on SF and the advice you gave me, just found it ".... not everyone on the site is an asshole. You'll soon learn to recognise those who are. You then either ignore them (best choice), or bait them (amusing, but ultimately fruitless, since they generally aren't too bright).". I remember thinking this guys seems alright, wouldn't have dream it was you though.
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  13. #12  
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    omg..argueing with yourself?

    i have always wondered about that myself..i have often thought about creating another account just so i could argue with myself..cept i know better..i would end up getting myself banned..
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  14. #13  
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    Welcome to the forum.

    That's cool...I always like your posts as "O".
    Fixin' shit that ain't broke.
     

  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    For reasons now buried in the mists of time I have posted on this forum in two guises: as John Galt and as Ophiolite. This was not done to decieve, but I have become increasingly uncomfortable that the truth may have occured to some members and they might think I was trying some weird form of deception. I wasn't. When I posted as Ophiolite I did not post at that time as JG and vice versa. (Exception: I think there was one occasion when I was bored and may have had a debate with myself. )

    I imagine most of you will rightly say "who cares", but if this bothers anyone please accept my apology for the discomfort caused.

    Thanks

    John Galt aka Ophiolite
    What surprises me is your apparently still working..."making another trip to Texas" on your profile. Your looking good for 70, which a few years back, think after a 3rd HA, you doubted was possible.Then Cheney's still getting along, as well....Ian, must have been elsewhere?
     
     
     

  16. #15  
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    I just want to know how I managed to miss that, I mean, I feel as if I have a stone for a head now. Crap! And well, fascinating also.
    Just from memory it seem's that the John and Ophie' posts are driven by different psychologies, or perhaps I'm suffering some sample bias. Still working from memory here, but while the similarities are blatant the differences are subtle.
    Well, I'll get back to this later. Maybe.
    In the meantime, eighty page single character monologues are completely unforgivable. Other than that, I'm pleasantly surprised your'e not a stranger John, I mean Ophie', I mean... Crap!
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  17. #16  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    one word in particular was a giveaway to me : whenever either Ophi or JG got in a heated argument with someone, the word "frigging" was in regular usage
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
     

  18. #17  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMSquirrel View Post
    omg..argueing with yourself?
    not really much point, is there ? the best you can hope for is a draw - otherwise, you lose even when you win
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
     

  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by NMSquirrel View Post
    omg..argueing with yourself?
    not really much point, is there ? the best you can hope for is a draw - otherwise, you lose even when you win
    Unless it is a devil/angel type of thing going on. Question is, which is which?
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  20. #19  
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    People! It's the friggin' internet. You can say what you want, be who you want, even it means you're nothing like what you say or if you are more than one person. This is a stance I have never wavered from, it's the only way you can look at it and make sense. I really don't mind if JG was Ophi or vice versa. At least he has exposed a weakness of specialized forums, no one on here could be a scientist, there could be hundreds of members with more than one username, there may be only one member, or one of us could be God for all we know. Who gives a shit!
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  21. #20  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    one of us could be God for all we know.
    Darn! I was hoping to keep that a secret for a bit longer.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  22. #21  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    one of us could be God for all we know.
    Darn! I was hoping to keep that a secret for a bit longer.
    For what it's worth, there's a What's Your Occupation thread in the Discussion subforum? Keep us informed
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  23. #22  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Darn! I was hoping to keep that a secret for a bit longer.
    you ain't no god of mine - in fact, i don't think i even believe in you
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
     

  24. #23  
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    Thank you for the generally positive (or indifferent) response to the announcement. I wish to add some points of clarification.

    I have never attempted to post in a different style, language, or viewpoint between the two identities. It is interesting that some people identified the similarities, while they passed others by. I suspect it may relate to a tendency to focus on either the person or the content of a post and could make an intersting separate discussion.

    When I first started posting as JG I anticipated and intended that at least one member familiar with Ayn Rand would ask Who is John Galt? From the circumstances on the forum at that time I expected the answer to be obvious. When no one picked up on it, it seemed pointless at that time to mention it.

    @NF deception was not the intention. I do not intend to revisit the Futilitist drama. I trust members to reach their own conclusions on the comparison of the two cases. I shall not enter into any discussion on this point.

    @Jackson, you are slightly in error. For the record, I am 64. I have had two strokes, not three heart attacks. I apologise if I gave a different impression. You are correct that I do routinely travel globally, generally the near and far east and the US. If a period of more than three months elapses without any posts from me, you may reasonably assume I am dead or in a vegetative state.
     

  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    When I first started posting as JG I anticipated and intended that at least one member familiar with Ayn Rand would ask Who is John Galt? From the circumstances on the forum at that time I expected the answer to be obvious. When no one picked up on it, it seemed pointless at that time to mention it.
    Feeling slightly like the kid that always puts his hand up in class, but we did exchange one or two PM's between the three of us where I laid the innuendo on thick. You responded with a bit of innuendo of your own.

    Anyway, glad it went smoothly.
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  26. #25  
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    Yes, that rings a bell. Thinking on it I believe there may have been another member or two with whom I had similar exchanges. It is so long ago now, I have forgotten many of the details.
     

  27. #26  
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    This is up there with the Manti Te'o scam. Personally, I feel like my life has been turned upside down.
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  28. #27  
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    Just curious here, did go get treated any different by other users as Ophiolite than JG?
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    This is up there with the Manti Te'o scam. Personally, I feel like my life has been turned upside down.
    But I never claimed to be a linebacker.

    =AscendedJust curious here, did go get treated any different by other users as Ophiolite than JG?
    I was not aware of any difference. Equally, I was not looking for one. When posting I post in my mind as me - the name is just a tag that I have to have in order to post.
     

  30. #29  
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    I guess I'm one of the indifferent members. Unless something really sticks out, I'm not one to remember subtle similarities/differences between members.

    You just answered my only question about why two personas (I thought maybe a split along some line — serious/funny, objective/personal, scientist/non-scientist, mainstream/fanatic, etc).

    Q: But there was no thought as to how you would sign in on a particular day? You didn't flip a coin or something? You at least had to take care not to say something like "As I've posted elsewhere, ..." when you were the other persona.

    Q: Did you ever post on the same thread and have different conversations with different members?

    Q: What finally drove you to come out of the closets, as it were?

    Q: It seems that you'll be John Galt from now on, and so not to leave an obvious question unasked, I'll bite and ask, so, Who is John Galt (which I assumed was your name)?
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  31. #30  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrmonroe View Post
    Q: But there was no thought as to how you would sign in on a particular day? You didn't flip a coin or something? You at least had to take care not to say something like "As I've posted elsewhere, ..." when you were the other persona.
    I abandoned the Ophiolite persona for a time for reasons which I really do not wish to revisit. I then posted as JG for a time. I switched between the two, but always for extended periods. Why the switches? I don't remember for sure. Possibly chance. Probably I was bugged by one of the conversations and wanted to participate in the forum without continuing that conversation further at that time.
    Quote Originally Posted by jrmonroe View Post
    Q: Did you ever post on the same thread and have different conversations with different members?
    I know that I have posted in the same thread where the thread has been a very long running one - I mean years rather than months. I don't ever recall actively posting with both names in the same thread at the same time, other than the aforementioned instance of debating with myself because the thread was otherwise boring.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrmonroe View Post
    Q: What finally drove you to come out of the closets, as it were?
    On a few occassions I logged in as Ophiolite and almost posted a response as JG. Easy error to make as I still post as Ophiolite on three (?) other forums. While there was no intent to deceive I just felt increasingly uncomfortable that it shouldn't be a secret - not that it was ever intended to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrmonroe View Post
    Q: It seems that you'll be John Galt from now on, and so not to leave an obvious question unasked, I'll bite and ask, so, Who is John Galt (which I assumed was your name)?
    Well, the answer that was meant to be deduced in the first incarnation was simply - John Galt is Ophiolite. Have you read Atlas Shrugged? If you have, I wish to make abundantly clear I see almost no similarity between the character in the novel and myself, unless it be we are both well intentioned fools paving the road to hell.
     

  32. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil View Post
    I just want to know how I managed to miss that, I mean, I feel as if I have a stone for a head now. Crap! And well, fascinating also.
    Just from memory it seem's that the John and Ophie' posts are driven by different psychologies, or perhaps I'm suffering some sample bias. Still working from memory here, but while the similarities are blatant the differences are subtle.
    Well, I'll get back to this later. Maybe.
    In the meantime, eighty page single character monologues are completely unforgivable. Other than that, I'm pleasantly surprised your'e not a stranger John, I mean Ophie', I mean... Crap!
    Well I've gone back and looked and decided that my different psychology hypothesis was driven entirely by sample bias.
    At the bottom of this post is a link to the mentioned John-Ophie' post.
    it is vaguely interesting to note that Ophiolite misspelled "Galt" as "Gault". Not a likely typo on a QWERTY or DVORAK style keyboard.
    Gawd! I must have been bored.

    The relevant posts are #55 and #56.
    Why has water stayed liquid on Earth?
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    I would never have guessed. I assumed that Ophiolite had disappeared along with Dr Rocket, Inow and a few others, for pastures new. I wonder if Markus Hanke is Dr Rocket ?
    .
     

  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wilson View Post
    I would never have guessed. I assumed that Ophiolite had disappeared along with Dr Rocket, Inow and a few others, for pastures new. I wonder if Markus Hanke is Dr Rocket ?
    I doubt that, DrRocket has fat fingers and Markus rarely makes any typos.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wilson View Post
    I would never have guessed. I assumed that Ophiolite had disappeared along with Dr Rocket, Inow and a few others, for pastures new. I wonder if Markus Hanke is Dr Rocket ?
    I doubt that, DrRocket has fat fingers and Markus rarely makes any typos.
    Good point, but did you not disappear along with him?
    .
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil View Post
    The relevant posts are #55 and #56.
    Why has water stayed liquid on Earth?
    And not the only occurrence.

    About the only two options are: Incompetence and deception.
    One does not address himself innocently. No one forgets that other I.D. is their own.

    John Galt has my own personal confidence as a Moderator. He wouldn't if he was incompetent or a fool.

    To say "I don't want to talk about it" when I pointed out the above just isn't going to cut it. You created this. By your own hand.

    Most especially if you insult others intelligence by suggesting it was all perfectly innocent. Because it most assuredly doesn't look that way.
    Some things just get real old real fast.
    Post number 2.

    Your best bet at this point is to say, "I made an error in judgment" rather than say, "Don't judge me."
    Your best bet is to say, "I'm sorry to those that were unaware I was using two different I.D.'s-- at the same time." Not say, "I brought it up only because the clock was ticking and I don't wish to talk about it."
    No, you screwed up. And while you may not want to talk about it, others may want to.
    Because it breaches trust with others. And I find it difficult to accept that it was incompetence when you quoted yourself.

    It's going to fade away and this thread will slowly stop getting new posts. But everyone that read it will remember. And there are some of us that frown heavily on Sock Puppetry.

    What is within your control is how they remember it. Are they going to remember hand-waiving and the brush off? Or are they going to remember you totally owning up and assuring others you have no intention of using alternate monikers to argue with yourself, others or the mods in the future?
     

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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    if memory serves me right, the period when Ophiolite decided to create his new persona was when there were only a few super-moderators for the whole forum, amongst them Megabrain and Ophiolite
    my impression was that the 2 couldn't stand each other, and i believe that Ophiolite relinquished his position as moderator around that time

    not for me to know the details of what exactly went on behind the scenes, but i see plenty of incentives for subterfuge at the time

    the problem is, once you started when't the time to stop - or own up
    i'm glad it's finally out in the open, and i think it's pointless to try and dig any further into the unpleasantness of the past

    you weren't there when it happened, Neverfly, and you can't possibly imagine the toxic atmosphere that pervaded the forum at the time

    i think you're being unreasonable to demand that someone should revisit episodes of their life that they'd rather forget
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    It's going to fade away and this thread will slowly stop getting new posts. But everyone that read it will remember. And there are some of us that frown heavily on Sock Puppetry.
    I think it all depends on the reasons for the sock puppetry. Is someone circumventing a ban? Did they make a sock puppet to give a false impression of someone else agreeing with their argument? Then I might agree.

    Personally, I don't see a need for all the drama. It's only a freaking internet forum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR View Post
    you weren't there when it happened, Neverfly, and you can't possibly imagine the toxic atmosphere that pervaded the forum at the time

    i think you're being unreasonable to demand that someone should revisit episodes of their life that they'd rather forget
    On this- I completely see your point. I've experienced it, just not here, and not as John Galt.

    Ophiolite last posted quite recently.

    What I take exception to is claiming it served no purpose of deception and was purely a whimsical matter of using both. Or boredom.

    To re-visit it is not the point- and I referred to his addressing my point, "And you gave futilist a hard time" with, "I won't talk about that" but I think he needs to think about it. He gave that man a hard time for doing something similar to that. Not that I agree with futilist...

    I am not being unreasonable in any way whatsoever. I'm not demanding something of someone else I would not do myself. And any one of us may have to deal with explaining ourselves and our actions to a Mod here by re-visiting things we'd rather forget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    It's only a freaking internet forum.
    I know, right? Let's just do away with all rules and do whatever we want. It's not a big deal- it's only a forum.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wilson
    Good point, but did you not disappear along with him?
    If I had, then how am I here responding now?
    Seriously, I've not heard anything of the Good Doctor in quite some time.

    As far as sock puppetry goes, I find it amusing and don't really understand why it is generally considered taboo. Is there an identifiable basis to this reaction, or is it merely an example of contagion of protocol?

    Oh well, I've got real world stuff to go do now, like rebuilding the blown motor on one vehicle cause' my spare has a rod knocking.
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    Lucky me. Lucky mud.
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    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    Ralph Waldo Emerson
    Dodging, as usual?
    My point is valid.
    Although, a "little mind" might be more willing to accept the statement.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    @Jackson, you are slightly in error. For the record, I am 64. I have had two strokes, not three heart attacks. I apologise if I gave a different impression. You are correct that I do routinely travel globally, generally the near and far east and the US. If a period of more than three months elapses without any posts from me, you may reasonably assume I am dead or in a vegetative state.
    I probably caught you on a bad day, but you were rightfully (opinion) feeling sorry for yourself with a PM and my response was hopefully uplifting. I did figure 64 now, think 58 on that PM and 2 HA was concerning in itself. Still working, keeping your mind active (4 forums) to me indicates, 70 is even more realistic today. I was going through a kidney bout, as had Megabrain and losing contact with Cosmo/New Science, who was an outright supporter and friend of mine since 2004 (Frost Clouds). For the record, I did pick up on Ayn Rand's fictional character, but chose not to mention.

    As for Ophie/JG; Since the original owner, this forum, did do you wrong (opinion), I assumed the two new programmers/owners (I'm no fan) know/knew you had the same ID # and offered you a moderator position under JG username to save face, for whatever reason.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Personally, I don't see a need for all the drama. It's only a freaking internet forum.
    This is what I feel as well.

    I have plenty of drama in my physical life, as I can only assume we all do. So why create more here in the digital world where we can all find a relaxing reprieve as an alter ego among alter egos?
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
     

  45. #44  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33 View Post
    As for Ophie/JG; Since the original owner, this forum, did do you wrong (opinion), I assumed the two new programmers/owners (I'm no fan) know/knew you had the same ID # and offered you a moderator position under JG username to save face, for whatever reason.
    [/FONT]
    please let's not get our ownerships muddled up here

    (In)Sanity was the original owner of this forum until sometime in june/july 2011 he decided to sell up and leave the forum in the hands of Bunsen & Beaker, who had more knowledge of IT than of how to handle people - that's when the .org faction split off
    pretty soon, they must have seen the game was up and our current admin has taken over in a far more enlightened manner

    John Galt was proposed and accepted as moderator during the current owner's adminship, and until JG declared on becoming a moderator that he was in fact Ophiolite, very few (apart from Kalster) had any idea of the true state of affairs
    that's when the internal soul searching amongst the moderators happened, and in the end we decided that, on balance, JG had not damaged the forum with his dual citizenship, so we decided to let it be

    just to set the record straight
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR View Post
    that's when the internal soul searching amongst the moderators happened, and in the end we decided that, on balance, JG had not damaged the forum with his dual citizenship, so we decided to let it be

    just to set the record straight
    This is a matter of trust for others looking in.
    Which is why I point out that claiming it was not for the purpose or with intent to have deception is a bit... fat-fetched. If one is going to own up, may as well own up all the way.

    I've said my piece. Personally, I do believe that the matter should be dropped shortly. Others saying, "oh who cares" are too quick to dismiss what might have gotten another member banned entirely. And how much room would they have been given to explain themselves?
    Would saying it was not for the purpose of deception, after they quoted themselves as another I.D. carry much weight? This does not mean, however, that I'm itching to make a big issue of it. It's already an issue. I'm just confronting what is there.

    I think John Galt made the right, if difficult move, saying so himself. I think he made the wrong move in claiming it had no deceptive intent.
    I think he should make the right move, clear it up once and for all in his own words- and everyone move on from it.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Dodging, as usual?
    My point is valid.
    Although, a "little mind" might be more willing to accept the statement.
    Dodging? What do you want me to say? You have nailed Galt dead to rights, I admit it. I can see you think this is important since you wrote in a bold font.
     

  48. #47  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    For the record, John registered in December 2008. I knew he was Ophiolite in February 2009. I chose to let it pass, which means he had my permission as mod at that time. So if you have some cause for indignation (which you don't), you might as well direct it to me as well. I know what went down when he left. I also know how he contributes to this forum and has for many years. It is like a parking ticket. This is a non-issue. The situations of John Galt and sigurdV are worlds apart on this, with sigurdV's also being a non-issue. The current owner doesn't have a problem with it.

    This does not mean, however, that I'm itching to make a big issue of it. It's already an issue.
    Nope, you are the one making the issue here.

    I've said my piece.
    Thanks. Then leave it at that.
    Last edited by KALSTER; January 29th, 2013 at 02:47 AM. Reason: fixed dates
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    For the record, John registered in December 2011. I knew he was Ophiolite in February 2011. I chose to let it pass, which means he had my permission as mod at that time. So if you have some cause for indignation (which you don't), you might as well direct it to me as well. I know what went down when he left. I also know how he contributes to this forum and has for many years. It is like a parking ticket. This is a non-issue. The situations of John Galt and sigurdV are worlds apart on this, with sigurdV's also being a non-issue. The current owner doesn't have a problem with it.
    I don't like being deceived. Maybe for others, it's a non-issue for reasons that we are not privy to. I didn't make it like that, now did I?
    And I'm more than getting a little bit tired of being treated as though I'm victimizing or picking on John Galt for actions he chose to take.
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Nope, you are the one making the issue here.
    I am one of two people, at least.
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Thanks. Then leave it at that.
    If I leave it at this, it's a mystery why he said "It was not for the sake of deception" when it's confirmed that it was at this point, not just suspected.

    You want it left at that- then fine.
     

  50. #49  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    For the record, John registered in December 2011.
    are you sure ? the membership list says december 2008

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    are too quick to dismiss what might have gotten another member banned entirely.
    let's be brutally frank about this : not all members are equal (and i'm not even referring to moderators here) - some people have built up enough credit through their useful contributions to the forum that on balance their presence is more valued than their absence

    in JG's case, the question boiled down to "has JG harmed the forum by having 2 IDs?", to which the answer was a unanimous "NO"

    it's the people who got themselves banned because they're an absolute pain in the neck that you don't want coming back in any shape or form
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  51. #50  
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    Yes, I mean Dec 2008 and Feb 2009 sorry.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR View Post
    let's be brutally frank about this : not all members are equal (and i'm not even referring to moderators here) - some people have built up enough credit through their useful contributions to the forum that on balance their presence is more valued than their absence

    in JG's case, the question boiled down to "has JG harmed the forum by having 2 IDs?", to which the answer was a unanimous "NO"
    And, again- we're in agreement on this- not that my agreement carries that much weight (Brutally honest).

    But what I pointed out was I'm bothered by the actions taken as it is a breach of trust.
    Did he have Good Reason to do so? Probably. Do I know what those reasons are? Nope.
    I doubt, highly, that you and Kalster and Harold would vouch for good reason if it was not there.

    So where did Galt fault?

    Aside from keeping it a secret long after it was necessary (As well as seemingly using the I.D., afterward, as well), it was in responding to himself- even misspelling his own handle. It's established that there was deception there- and then claiming when he cleared the air that there was no intent of deception.
    He should have been honest and straight up about the whole thing right away if he was gonna come clean. Doesn't mean re-visit all the details and maybe some details are none of our business. But to come half-clean with the other half a deception about the initial deception...- That's poor handling.

    And there is nothing wrong with me pointing it out or questioning that. I, for one, don't appreciate being told I'm being a problem here. I didn't create this problem. Yet, many folks in this thread appear to be trying to make it my problem- shift doubt onto me, somehow. Why? Because it's unpleasant? Not what you wanted to hear? Am I to be expected to bow down and Kiss Butt?
    Well, I won't do that. Yet, that's exactly how it's coming across.

    I was quick to defend accusations made by another on Galt. And quick to say, "Don't bother questioning your position of moderator."
    I stand by that.
    Because on that occurrence, John Galt showed Integrity.

    In this one, he hasn't. He was applauded then for good handling. Questioned now for poor handling.
    Cause and effect.

    It sets a precedent- a premise. I agree that not all members are equal. But that does not mean that Integrity gets sacrificed for it. You, the Admins and the Moderators, must rely on Trust with the members on the forum. We must be able to trust your actions, moderation and decisions.
    The worst thing you can do if a mod faults, even if he's the best mod, ever, is sweep it under the rug. You must show integrity. Even if it's equal.
    The worst and most offensive member will only be shown to be correct if you set a precedent that members or Mods can breach Trust.

    The I.D. of Ophiolite should be permanently banned. John Galt should own up in full and give his assurance he has no desire to post under an alternate I.D. Then, the matter should be closed. Not swept under the rug. Not casually brushed aside.
    But confronted, dealt with and closed.

    That's honor. That' integrity. And the lot of you should be embarrassed that I have to remind you of these basics while defending myself from you.
     

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    So much for leaving it at that.

    I get that you want to stand up for accountability, but you're bordering on just having an issue with authority. Even when that authority is just over something like internet forum. How do you react when a cop pulls you over?
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
     

  54. #53  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    He should have been honest and straight up about the whole thing right away if he was gonna come clean.

    <snip>

    The I.D. of Ophiolite should be permanently banned. John Galt should own up in full and give his assurance he has no desire to post under an alternate I.D. Then, the matter should be closed.
    haven't we all done things that in hindsight we wished we hadn't done ? i know i have
    since we can't change the past, the best we can is try and avoid similar failings in the future
    JG has promised to the moderator team that he would no longer use the Ophiolite ID, and i trust that he will stick to that promise

    i don't think anyone has a problem with closing the Ophiolite account so that no accidental posts can be made

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    And the lot of you should be embarrassed that I have to remind you of these basics while defending myself from you.
    *shrug* i have a high tolerance for embarassment - if i didn't i wouldn't be a forum moderator
    as for defending yourself, do you think that would have been necessary if you hadn't insisted on making a mountain out of a molehill ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR View Post
    haven't we all done things that in hindsight we wished we hadn't done ? i know i have
    since we can't change the past, the best we can is try and avoid similar failings in the future
    Ok, so... Being dishonest about coming clean just a couple days ago is... in the past and something someone wishes they hadn't done, now?

    REALLY? Like I said, if you're going to come clean- then come clean. Don't do it half.
    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR View Post
    as for defending yourself, do you think that would have been necessary if you hadn't insisted on making a mountain out of a molehill ?
    It's not a molehill.
    Continuous questioning of my character for pointing out that lying ain't something I like is causing the defense.
    I also pointed out that the reaction from you lot is to repeatedly try to shift the focus from his lie onto me, somehow.
    You just did it again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    So much for leaving it at that.

    I get that you want to stand up for accountability, but you're bordering on just having an issue with authority. Even when that authority is just over something like internet forum. How do you react when a cop pulls you over?
    And then, so did this guy.
    See what I mean?

    Why are other people posting for John Galt, Anyway? It's being dragged out because he hasn't. Because others are posting on his behalf (He posts elsewhere...) and in so doing, repeatedly attacking me to get the focus off of him.
    You guys have your opinion. Fine. I have one of my own.

    I don't want to hear yours anymore. We should hear from John Galt, let him say why he claimed he had used another I.D.- why he was deceptive about its use and purpose and why he 'Half" came clean about it.
    It ain't a molehill.

    And the more you others keep pushing me, the more I'll push back. You're only demonstrating that very poor handling of the situation I already pointed out. You keep doing it. I point out the facts... You then shift the focus off the facts (Shift to acting as though the use of the I.D. is in the past and the sole issue- it's not. Shifting to "I have a problem with authority" for questioning having just been lied to) and onto me and yet, no explanation from Galt.

    Piss
    Poor
    Handling.

    Not my problem.

    It's Galts problem.

    Get up off my back about it and let HIM handle his own accountability.
     

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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Not my problem.

    It's Galts problem.
    you're making it your problem by not letting bygones be bygones
    remember : people who insist on an apology are least likely to receive one

    one last word of advice : DROP. IT.
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR View Post
    one last word of advice : DROP. IT.
    Is that a threat? If I don't accept a lie told just a couple days ago as "By gones" and agree with your demands of how to view it?
     

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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    no that's not a threat - you can't see an "or else" can you ?
    i'm just begging for sanity's sake that you get a grip

    you're in danger of losing all perspective
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR View Post
    no that's not a threat - you can't see an "or else" can you ?
    i'm just begging for sanity's sake that you get a grip

    you're in danger of losing all perspective
    I don't see it that way at all... but will do as you ask.
     

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    OK, I am late on this discussion. But for what it is worth......

    It will be well known to moderators here that in the mod corner I expressed some disquiet about the John Galt - Ophiolite dual identity. My reasons are not important, but some other mod is free to rehash the point I made there.

    Look. Surprising as it may seem I was not baptised with the name "Guitarist". Further, I have have no idea how it works in other countries, but here in the UK, for a modest sum I can change my given name from b***** c******* to John Smith - this becomes my new name recognized in law. It is called "changing your name by deed poll" How it affects inheritance law I have no idea, but (hopefully) that is an issue way down the road. Neither have I any idea how it works in other legal jurisdictions.

    I am rambling (as usual). The main point is this. I assume, with no legal knowledge whatever, that an application to change one's name by "deed poll" would be refused if one were under suspicion of having committed some crime or were otherwise deemed to be a "suspicious person". (This may not be true in the UK, but I fear it may be - it would require an exchange of information between the judiciary and the police PRIOR to any application)

    Bah!!

    The mainest point is that Ophiolite changed his name "by deed poll" not to "escape" from the forum police, but just because he felt like it. A right any UK citizen has (given the imaginary scenarios above)
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    I don't see having two ID's as being a bad thing, depending on the person behind them. But I do see where it can be cause for concern. Now that it has been admitted to and will be dropped in this forum and no bad intentions were used with either ID, I just can't see a problem that needs any further action. Especially from a respected poster. NF you've made your feeling known, what more do you want?

    Sockpuppet (Internet)
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    For Wikipedia policy on sockpuppets, see Wikipedia:Sock puppetry

    A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception. The term—a reference to the manipulation of a simple hand puppet made from a sock—originally referred to a false identity assumed by a member of an internet community who spoke to, or about himself while pretending to be another person. The term now includes other uses of misleading online identities, such as those created to praise, defend or support a third party or organization, or to circumvent a suspension or ban from a website. A significant difference between the use of a pseudonym and the creation of a sockpuppet is that the sockpuppet poses as an independent third-party unaffiliated with the puppeteer. Many online communities have a policy of blocking sockpuppets.

    The term "sockpuppet" was used as early as July 9, 1993 but did not become common in USENET groups until 1996. The first Oxford English Dictionary example of the term, defined as "a person whose actions are controlled by another; a minion," is taken from U.S. News and World Report, March 27, 2000.

    The history of reviewing one's own work under another name predates the internet. Walt Whitman and Anthony Burgess were both famous for having reviewed their books under pseudonyms. Another famous example was Benjamin Franklin.
     

  62. #61  
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    Ophi needs to confirm this. If he disagrees with you, then you might have multiple personality disorder.
    A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it. - David Stevens
     

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    Yes anyone changing their user id is a terrible terrible thing, I wouldn't dream of myself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Why are other people posting for John Galt, Anyway? It's being dragged out because he hasn't. Because others are posting on his behalf (He posts elsewhere...) and in so doing, repeatedly attacking me to get the focus off of him.
    You guys have your opinion. Fine. I have one of my own.

    I don't want to hear yours anymore.
    First, I'm not posting for John. I'm posting for me. I'm tired of you constantly attacking the mods in every thread in which they post. It's getting really irritating. I'm trying to politely tell you to please shut up, but you're not getting it.

    We all know by now that you have your own opinion. You make that blatantly clear at every possible opportunity. I tend to have opinions on a lot of threads as well, but I do a better job of keeping them to myself when they're not important. You really just need to learn how to let things go.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
     

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    I've changed my name so many times I don't know who I am. Wait a minute, is it quite possible our names aren't really who we are??

    ...




    PS. Welcome back John, Ophi, whoever you really are
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
     

  66. #65  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Yes anyone changing their user id is a terrible terrible thing, I wouldn't dream of myself.
    He didn't just change his id did he though. He had two ids, argued with himself and didn't tell anyone that he was the same person behind both ids. Just changing an ID is fairly simple and forgivable, but arguing with yourself in a forum, well if he did that on a bus he would have been taken to a mental hospital against his will and treated for schizophrenia.

    In any case, NF has agreed to drop it. So I guess that opened the door to everyone now browbeating neverfly for having an opinion they disagreed with. Everyone got the green light to give NF neverending grief over it.

    Dropping it should go for everyone. NF agreed to drop the issue with JG. Constantly allowing other members to give NF shit about it but not allowing him to respond is Bullshit. If Neverfly has to drop it then lock the thread and make EVERYONE DROP IT.
     

  67. #66  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Why are other people posting for John Galt, Anyway? It's being dragged out because he hasn't. Because others are posting on his behalf (He posts elsewhere...) and in so doing, repeatedly attacking me to get the focus off of him.
    You guys have your opinion. Fine. I have one of my own.

    I don't want to hear yours anymore.
    First, I'm not posting for John. I'm posting for me. I'm tired of you constantly attacking the mods in every thread in which they post. It's getting really irritating. I'm trying to politely tell you to please shut up, but you're not getting it.

    We all know by now that you have your own opinion. You make that blatantly clear at every possible opportunity. I tend to have opinions on a lot of threads as well, but I do a better job of keeping them to myself when they're not important. You really just need to learn how to let things go.
    There is an ignore button, Flick. Learn how to use it. It's not difficult. Just get your finger to hover over the proper link and press. Quite frankly I get tired of seeing people bitch about NF because they want to kiss mod butt. If NF is being a pain to the mods, the mods can handle it. They, of all people on this forum, do not need help from any of us. They got that magic suspend button they can use. And the rest of us have the ignore button. Why don't we all stop whining and learn to use the buttons that make our individual user experience more tolerable.
     

  68. #67  
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    That only opens the door for someone to claim you're my sock puppet arguing on my behalf.

    I'll ask you to also drop it for that reason. If they want to deny the basics, let them. The precedent is now clearly set.
    Moderators on this forum are not held to the same standards as everyone else.
     

  69. #68  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    That only opens the door for someone to claim you're my sock puppet arguing on my behalf.

    I'll ask you to also drop it for that reason. If they want to deny the basics, let them. The precedent is now clearly set.
    Moderators on this forum are not held to the same standards as everyone else.
    It's kind of a catch 22 in my case. if I speak up, i will be accused of being a sockpuppet. If I don't people will say, "even his wife isn't backing him up". I prefer the risk of being called a sockpuppet, because frankly you are as capable as anyone else on here of presuming that I am not supportive of you on any issue that I don't chime in on. And your opinion matters to me more than anyone else's on this forum. I may get dumped from the forum, and that's fine. But I don't want you to think I am not behind you on this. I can say it at home til I am blue in the face, but saying it publicly hopefully assures you of it. Especially since you already know that generally if I don't agree with you on something you say on the forum I simply avoid participating in the subject. That's not the only reason I avoid topics you engage in but it is one of them. Others being that I am not knowledgeable on the topic.

    But as you wish, I will post no more in this thread as I think it should be closed anyway. I will do as I promised JG in another thread before this came out. He doesn't exist to me anyway.
     

  70. #69  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    That only opens the door for someone to claim you're my sock puppet arguing on my behalf.

    I'll ask you to also drop it for that reason. If they want to deny the basics, let them. The precedent is now clearly set.
    Moderators on this forum are not held to the same standards as everyone else.
    Ok, that's enough, You have good opinions on a lot of matters, but you are being blatantly rude here. And its seem to be soley based on the fact that the person in question is a moderator. I have been on this from forum for almost 5 years. John/Ophiolite has at NO point abused the forum, and has behaved fine. I remember the details which lead to him and a number of other long time members leaving. You do not, and can not due to the former owners of this site deleting much of the threads they participated in before they sold the site and left.

    Stop purposely assuming bad faith just because of a moderator being involved.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
     

  71. #70  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    John/Ophiolite has at NO point abused the forum, and has behaved fine. I remember the details which lead to him and a number of other long time members leaving. You do not, and can not due to the former owners of this site deleting much of the threads they participated in before they sold the site and left.
    You took the brief moment to explain some details that others did not. Your word carries a bit of weight.
    There are how things appear, and how things actually are. Clarifying how things actually are seems more appropriate than clarifying nothing and avoiding both.

    I could very well be in the wrong here and if shown to be, I'll accept that.
     

  72. #71  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    ... the mods can handle it. They, of all people on this forum, do not need help from any of us. They got that magic suspend button they can use.
    that is quite some accusation you're making there

    imo any mod who uses the suspension button because they can't win the argument any other way is not worthy of the position
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
     

  73. #72  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    ... the mods can handle it. They, of all people on this forum, do not need help from any of us. They got that magic suspend button they can use.
    that is quite some accusation you're making there

    imo any mod who uses the suspension button because they can't win the argument any other way is not worthy of the position
    That isn't what I meant. My apologies for not being clear. What I meant, is that if NF is being as big a pain in the ass as he is being made out to be, you guys can ban him like you would any other person deemed by popular opinion to be a trouble maker/pain in the ass. I am not saying that he is or isn't. My opinion would clearly be biased and therefore wouldn't hold any merit. I'm just saying mods don't need members to fight their battles. For members to pipe up, AFTER a member has already agreed to drop something and criticize the dissenting member, serves only one purpose, to keep the argument alive. When "drop it" is in effect, it should go for everyone. And it should be dropped.

    IMO, this thread should be closed.
     

  74. #73  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    NF asked why it had taken me so long 'to own up' to the dual identity. This thread has evolved into one of the reasons I hesitated. This forum is meant to be about science, not about personalities. I have to come to respect and admire many of the members of this forum, so I am not saying the person behind the post is unimportant, but it really doesn't merit 72 posts worth of discussion about me. I readily admit to being an egotist, but this is embarassing!

    Contrary to the views of some I don't consider myself guilty of anything in particular. Why is there a ban on sockpuppets? My understanding has always been that this is to deal with individuals who seek to circumvent suspensions or bans by having multiple identities. Did I infringe a technical rule of the forum? Yes. Was this done with the intent of harming the forum, or of any individual member? Absolutely not.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaGypsy
    He had two ids, argued with himself and didn't tell anyone that he was the same person behind both ids. Just changing an ID is fairly simple and forgivable, but arguing with yourself in a forum, well if he did that on a bus he would have been taken to a mental hospital against his will and treated for schizophrenia.
    I take it from this that you find the Dialogues used by the Greeks to present and develop ideas would justify having them institutionalised? Having reflected on this matter more I'm tempted to come round to the view that multiple IDs should be compulsory. If we made the promoters of pseudoscience take out a second ID in which they argued against their case we might see a lot less nonsense on the forum. And yes, I am half serious. And yes, I understand that in the proposed case we would know of that dual identity.

    NF, you won't let it go, will you. I'm trying to let this thread die and you just keep hammering away. I'm a geologist - the Gault Clay is an important formation in England. I'm a fan of Atlas Shrugged, whose hero is John Galt. The same neurons fire when the sound of Ga(u)lt comes into my head. So it is very easy, without any shade of incompetence, to confuse one with the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly
    Aside from keeping it a secret long after it was necessary (As well as seemingly using the I.D., afterward, as well), it was in responding to himself- even misspelling his own handle. It's established that there was deception there- and then claiming when he cleared the air that there was no intent of deception.
    Clearly you place greater importance on who you are than on what you say.

    For deception to occur there has to be intent. I fail to see what deception I was trying to practice in the instance you are exploring. You think I was trying to be two different people. I think I was trying to present two different perspectives on a topic, something several of us often do. You think it was significant that this was done via two identities. I don't and I have apologised to anyone who might think as you do on this point: I repeat that apology here. If my actions, which I am perfectly happy with, have caused you or any other any degree of distress and discomfort I regret that.

    Finally NF, I shall not, despite any provocation or argrument from you discuss the details of the original reason for the launch of the JG identity, since this involves another party.

    Now can we please get back to discussing science.
    arKane likes this.
     

  75. #74  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    And with that final word from the man himself, I am closing this thread and ending the ridiculousness it evolved into.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
     

  76. #75  
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    User 'Ophiolite' has been merged into user 'John Galt'.
     

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