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Thread: Do Aliens Exist? (No religious views please)

  1. #1 Do Aliens Exist? (No religious views please) 
    Forum Freshman Gatene's Avatar
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    First off, I don't want it believed that I am being biased on the religious. I grew up religious and stayed religious for 27 years, and now at 32, I am an atheist. I've heard/believed it all from a religious standpoint.

    With that being said, my partner is a devout believer in aliens. He's had me watching Ancient Aliens, had me listening to Coast to Coast AM, and lots of different things to do with aliens. Some say, "If we are alone in the universe, it would be a terrible waste of space". I agree with this, but at the same time, I haven't seen an alien, and I do not have a way to go out into outer space to look for any extra terrestrials. Yes, I am an atheist, but I will entertain just about any notion as long as it does not require belief or death to be proven. Also, abduction stories or UFO sighting stories aren't up my alley, because they cannot be proven to me. For me, we know that the government is working on our aircrafts, so seeing a UFO is seeing just that, and Unidentified Flying Object. I just want other people's opinions and/or evidences that are tangible.

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    Pretty much, everything you just said is how I see it, as well. For me, I don't really entertain the thought much other than to think it's probable that life exists elsewhere but not probable that we're being visited. Until any evidence arises, I don't think on it much since. If I worked at NASA, I'd have that luxury.


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    What is the connection between space aliens and religion?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    What is the connection between space aliens and religion?
    Belief. It's human nature to fill in the gaps. If it's not religion, it's conspiracies or aliens or ghosts or bigfoot. But the principle is exactly the same.
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    Many of the so called normal human beings on this earth are aliens.

    The just don't have much sense for reality and evoke the impression

    they would come from another planet. Growing up without education

    is enough for a human being to become an alien. Someone who asks

    the question, if there were aliens from other planets here, is an alien

    himself and maybe his parents were aliens to him.
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    Well, I generally tend to think that unless the appearance of life is massively more complicated and unlikely than our current hypotheses seem to suggest, it strikes me as highly likely that there has been, is and will be alien life out there in our Universe - some of which might even have reached complexities similar to or above our own. On the other hand, the chances that said life will be able to communicate directly with us also seems to me as rather unlikely, so the existence of such life does not seem to have any real bearing on my own except as a thought experiment.

    As for Alien visitations to us... I am doubtful. Not that it's completely impossible, but it does seem quite unlikely and from what I can tell most of the supposed evidence for it takes the forms of either witness testimonies and is therefore unreliable by default, or operating on a logic that strikes me as basically being "We can't explain it, therefore aliens."

    Considering that it's my understanding that the alien visitation/abduction kind of stories/experiences is older than the space alien explanation of them, it strikes me that either this has been ongoing since the beginning of civilisation or it touches upon an interesting psychological phenomena in the human brain that bears investigation. In the interests of maintaining a healthy amount of skepticism, I'll hedge my bets on the latter unless evidence manages to convince me otherwise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    What is the connection between space aliens and religion?
    Belief. It's human nature to fill in the gaps. If it's not religion, it's conspiracies or aliens or ghosts or bigfoot. But the principle is exactly the same.
    Okay. Now, why did Gatene feel it was necessary to exclude religious views of aliens? Is there a religious view of aliens? I guess in Scientology, maybe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geomensch
    Many of the so called normal human beings on this earth are aliens.
    What in the hell are you talking about?
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    Actually it's not a surprising comparision between aliens and religious.

    Scientology both have aliens type beings...

    Americans were regarded as aliens, and gods of sorts by Indonesian natives....

    Some religious apologist also try to make a connection--it's almost been part of the Mormon faith from its start and a pretty common scifi theme.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Okay. Now, why did Gatene feel it was necessary to exclude religious views of aliens?
    Ask Gatene.
    May have something to do with Scientology as you and Fox said. Or this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatene View Post
    I've heard/believed it all from a religious standpoint.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Okay. Now, why did Gatene feel it was necessary to exclude religious views of aliens? Is there a religious view of aliens? I guess in Scientology, maybe.
    Lol, nah, I just already know most religious views of aliens. One of which being, "The Bible never stated God created any other life than on Earth", and even, "No! It's not possible, God would have let us know.", or even, "Sure, we only have 1/3 of the Bible, who's to say there aren't any extra terrestrials." It's all in the mix, Harold. I know there are other religions, but I'm sure they follow along the same lines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatene View Post
    Some say, "If we are alone in the universe, it would be a terrible waste of space".
    There are two different things here, which often get mixed up.

    1. Are there other intelligent living beings somewhere in the universe? We don't know but it is possible, maybe even likely.

    2. Have aliens visited earth? Again, we don't know for sure, but there appears to be pretty much zero evidence for this so, on balance of probabilities, I would say no.
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    Off topic: Glad to see you posting around here, again, Strange. I was about to plant a poppy where you used to stand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatene View Post
    "If we are alone in the universe, it would be a terrible waste of space".
    a rather strange thing to say - why should it be imperative that the universe NEEDS to be filled with intelligent life, or even life ?
    granted that our limited knowledge of how life originated on earth (and that's where i suppose the religious angle might have come in) leads us to believe that the formation of life is not such an unusual thing provided conditions suitable to life exist

    however, when it comes to intelligent life, we really don't have any evidence to extrapolate from - it may be exceedingly rare or short-lived but we just don't have anything to come a definite conclusion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatene View Post
    Some say, "If we are alone in the universe, it would be a terrible waste of space".
    There are two different things here, which often get mixed up.

    1. Are there other intelligent living beings somewhere in the universe? We don't know but it is possible, maybe even likely.

    2. Have aliens visited earth? Again, we don't know for sure, but there appears to be pretty much zero evidence for this so, on balance of probabilities, I would say no.

    There have been many sightings even south american Indians recorded in stone men on rocket like craft wearing helmets was Jesus an alien, as I Know no man that can walk on water, the fact we have no physical proof in 2013 A.D does not mean there is nothing close by cloaked from primitive mankind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genesis View Post

    There have been many sightings even south american Indians recorded in stone men on rocket like craft wearing helmets was Jesus an alien, as I Know no man that can walk on water, the fact we have no physical proof in 2013 A.D does not mean there is nothing close by cloaked from primitive mankind.
    Evidence?
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    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR View Post
    why should it be imperative that the universe NEEDS to be filled with intelligent life, or even life ?
    I'm not saying it is imperative, but if you look at pictures, and remember that's only a fraction of a % of the size of the whole universe, and that it keeps expanding every day, it would be a VAST waste if nothing else intelligent existed, thus I am inclined to agree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatene View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by marnixR View Post
    why should it be imperative that the universe NEEDS to be filled with intelligent life, or even life ?
    I'm not saying it is imperative, but if you look at pictures, and remember that's only a fraction of a % of the size of the whole universe, and that it keeps expanding every day, it would be a VAST waste if nothing else intelligent existed, thus I am inclined to agree.
    I think you could actually make a decent case against the waste of space argument by observing the nature of the mass-energy present in the Universe. I mean, it is my understanding that something like 70% of all the mass-energy is calculated to be Dark Energy, about 30% is Dark Matter, and a tiny remaining fraction of a percent is all that is left for the actual "normal", visible matter.

    I believe it was Lawrence Krauss who on a few occasions have expressed that the visible matter that makes up things like stars, planets and living organisms is essentially a tiny bit of pollution in a Universe dominated by Dark Energy and Dark Matter.

    Apologies for the minor digression, but the thought came to me and seemed interesting enough to mention.
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    Kompi, that's a good point. But the point of the "waste of space" isn't that there's any intelligence to the determination of what space is used and what isn't, but given the odds, they favor that in the massive scales of the Universe that life is out there. So, in this case, "waste of space" means, "Lack of emergent properties that should be present."

    It's a bit like saying "Rising Sun" or "I have a theory about this" etc, common language and lingo can detract from the presentation of an idea.
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    That is true, and I certainly do agree that it seems quite possible that life would have appeared at least somewhere else in the Universe at some point past, present or future. I simply thought it was an interesting observation to add considering the choice of words
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    I base my view on this simply on the balance of probabilities.

    17 billion "earth-like" planets in our galaxy alone. Over 350 billion galaxies in the observable universe. The whole universe almost certainly many magnitudes larger than our observable universe.

    Of course aliens exist.

    But I very much doubt we will ever meet any.
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    We live in a universe that has created a sentient species, the question is. How often does that happen? If there are an average of 300 Billion stars in a galaxy, and there are around 200 Billion Galaxies (not including all the rouge planets, rouge star systems and dwarf galaxies) we have a total number of 1.2x10 to the 23rd power. That's a lot of stars.

    Assume that life can only really evolve on K and G stars as both are distant enough for a habitable zone without tidal locking and also the stars live up to 50 and 10 billion years respectively (M stars are prone to tidal locking in its habitable zone) that's 11.5% of those stars, which gives us approximately 1.2x10 to the 22nd power stars that life can evolve around. If you assume that in every 1 in 3 stars has a planet where one is in the habitable zone that gives us 4x10 to the 21st power planets in the habitable zone.

    It would be impossible to know without data but even with pessimistic results you would expect a lot of sentient species. I mean how rare is it molecules replicate on an Earth like planet? Our best bet is the Drake Equation. I did one myself to the best of my cosmological knowledge and some theory.

    My answer for this galaxy alone was around 250 million sentient species, but I included the last variable and said that only after 500 years of developing Radio communication if they find a way to travel into interstellar space then they adopt a kind of Star Trek 'Prime Directive'.

    With this number I ironically got 1.2 sentient species we can communicate with (now I find that a humorous coincidence ). There will still 250 million as well just all employing this prime directive.
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    1 st define alien for as i see it religion states aliens exist when it speaks of angels and demons spirits and beings from other worlds and skies now here s my theory :
    have aliens already visited the earth???? if yes why did they if not to control its resources but what if they did are we living in a world where our resources are mainly controlled by aliens >>>> that's 1 theory
    if not then again why are there still no civil advanced enough in this vast universe to have the tech to reach earth??? or are we still considered so primitive and unworthy of a visit ???>>>> that s 2nd theory
    now comes the last and weirdest theory take the universe the stars the galaxies matter anti m black holes everything in this world and try to think o it as system and ull bump into 2 huge theories randomness or organized chaos the first is so wild and frightening that i will not dare to discuss it here and now but the second is something else it is about us thinking that the world is random and chaotic and that we are the children of this freedom but in fact a higher intelligence is present organizing things along the way across the way giving this universe something Buddhists would call universal consciousness ,
    sometimes i wonder does anybody out there know whats true and not in what i stated here ???? does anybody know even beyond and how do we reach such knowledge???? thnk u
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kompi
    I think you could actually make a decent case against the waste of space argument by observing the nature of the mass-energy present in the Universe. I mean, it is my understanding that something like 70% of all the mass-energy is calculated to be Dark Energy, about 30% is Dark Matter, and a tiny remaining fraction of a percent is all that is left for the actual "normal", visible matter.


    Like you, I can't say for a fact on the numbers for the ratio of dark matter versus what is visible, put I do know that it is up there as well. I actually just learned about that the other day lol. Anyway, if I am not mistaken, the man who originally made the, "waste of space" comment was referring to something along these lines: It would be a waste of space if only one tiny planet in the universe contained intelligent life. Of all the visible planets able to sustain life, we would be the only ones. More or less a personal opinion with stated facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly
    It's a bit like saying "Rising Sun" or "I have a theory about this" etc, common language and lingo can detract from the presentation of an idea.

    Lol great analogy.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedFreek
    But I very much doubt we will ever meet any.


    It'd be cool though, assuming they wouldn't be here for a conquest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantime
    With this number I ironically got 1.2 sentient species we can communicate with (now I find that a humorous coincidence ).


    1.2? lol that is funny...and sheesh, are you an astronomer or something?

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    1.2? lol that is funny...and sheesh, are you an astronomer or something?
    Yes I am, I love space
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z@T@RA18
    now comes the last and weirdest theory take the universe the stars the galaxies matter anti m black holes everything in this world and try to think o it as system and ull bump into 2 huge theories randomness or organized chaos the first is so wild and frightening that i will not dare to discuss it here and now but the second is something else it is about us thinking that the world is random and chaotic and that we are the children of this freedom but in fact a higher intelligence is present organizing things along the way across the way giving this universe something Buddhists would call universal consciousness

    Randomness is wild and frightening? I can accept random, it's chaos that is frightening, to me. Will you instant message it to me then?
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    Apart from the obvious huge-universe-with-almost-endless-possibilities thing that has no doubt been expressed already, I can say that I have 99% sure I have seen one of their craft, relatively close up (was a huge metal sphere with lights). Was reported all over the radio, too. But as usual, the story died out completely over the next couple of days as people fool themselves that it was the planet Venus or swamp gas or a prank or a balloon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quantime View Post
    Yes I am, I love space
    Sweet. I love space too, but not an astronomer.
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    `Sorry, this was actually a double post.
    Last edited by Gatene; January 8th, 2013 at 06:02 PM. Reason: double post
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyoko View Post
    Apart from the obvious huge-universe-with-almost-endless-possibilities thing that has no doubt been expressed already, I can say that I have 99% sure I have seen one of their craft, relatively close up (was a huge metal sphere with lights). Was reported all over the radio, too. But as usual, the story died out completely over the next couple of days as people fool themselves that it was the planet Venus or swamp gas or a prank or a balloon.
    Shame nobody had a camera from this century around....

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatene
    It'd be cool though, assuming they wouldn't be here for a conquest.
    I think i can safely say that would be the greatest day of my life if that ever happens. I can't imagine why they would want to conquer us though. There is nothing special here, except for life (if that is special at all). I always hate it when some scientist makes the "would you worry about treading on an ant?" or similar caution of impending doom in scifi movies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyoko View Post
    Apart from the obvious huge-universe-with-almost-endless-possibilities thing that has no doubt been expressed already, I can say that I have 99% sure I have seen one of their craft, relatively close up (was a huge metal sphere with lights). Was reported all over the radio, too. But as usual, the story died out completely over the next couple of days as people fool themselves that it was the planet Venus or swamp gas or a prank or a balloon.
    Anyone and everyone can believe you, and I have no reason not to believe you, but it's as I said in the first post, it cannot be proven. That it could have been one of our craft that the government is working on and testing. No one knows what was in it. It could have been remote controlled...we do not know the tech our government is working on. Ah, I see you're in Australia...well, your government, or ours, or anyone's.
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    I love space, too. Can't get enough of it. Sadly, most other people don't love space, they love to crowd in on you. It's partly why I'm a bit aggressive.

    Ok, so- liens.
    No- aliens.
    Yeah so- I don't go in for the whole "treading on an ant" thing, either. Perspective is not based on scale and an alien would most likely have had a very different evolutionary line than us- leading to 'alien perspectives.'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatene View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pyoko View Post
    Apart from the obvious huge-universe-with-almost-endless-possibilities thing that has no doubt been expressed already, I can say that I have 99% sure I have seen one of their craft, relatively close up (was a huge metal sphere with lights). Was reported all over the radio, too. But as usual, the story died out completely over the next couple of days as people fool themselves that it was the planet Venus or swamp gas or a prank or a balloon.
    Anyone and everyone can believe you, and I have no reason not to believe you, .
    I have a reason not to believe him. Since I would seriously doubt my onw eye witness testimony in such a situation why should I accord pyoko a greater degree of trust than I do myself?
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    I have a reason not to believe him. Since I would seriously doubt my onw eye witness testimony in such a situation why should I accord pyoko a greater degree of trust than I do myself?
    You shouldn't afford pyoko a greater degree of trust than you do yourself. I just have no reason to not believe what he said he saw, because I do not know him. I do, however, believe that what he saw is not what he think he saw. He didn't look into the UFO and see an extra terrestrial entity. It could have been anything. Like with ghosts or a divine being, if someone said they saw that, I'd believe they think they saw (unless I know them to be a liar, or they were obviously lying), but I would know it was a trick of their brain. See what I'm getting at? People claim to see UFOs all the time; granted, some are liars, but some are telling the truth, but it doesn't mean the UFO was alien to Earth.
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    i forsee a day when the statement is made;

    "he is not an alien..he is just from another planet.."

    this is a discusion of somantics. UFO doesnt mean space ship..it means UNIDENTIFIED Flying object..hell there are thousands of UFO's flying over my head right now..of course i have no desire to identify them right now...some are birds of unknown species, some are particles that i cannot identify..etc..

    astronomers have already discovered a few 'goldilocks' planets..
    and they are searching for more..(and they say there is no faith in science..)
    it is just a matter of time before they find life on other planets..(pry longer to find intelligence)


    and congrats for getting away from religion..now God can work with you...
    The term 'Free' in Free thinking, does not imply control....
    Intelligence is being able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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    I can say this - I'm believe there is intelligent life elsewhere in the unierse more than I believe there isn't. That said, I did have a close encounter in the New Mexico Desert back in Feb. 1980. I've had over 30 years to think about it and with all that time to relect and consider and reconsider from all angles, I'm still at a lack to explain it. Natural? Possible I guess. Just not in a way that I can explain it or describe it. Basically there were three of us in a van driving from an AF base in Denver to one in Tucson (during my service days). The other two guys were asleep when I first noticed it. I assumed it was headlights comming down the road towards me, but the never got closer. In case the lights were recending I sped up for a very long time at a very high rate of speed. Never got closer. Shut the lights off and those lights were stil there. I woke one of the other guys up and went through the same set of assumptions and tests with no result. Then we woke the other guy up and ran through it all over again. Same thing. Funny thing is that I have no recollection of what happened to it eventually. That part's missing from my memory. Yipes!
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    Wow pmb, that certainly is a mystery. A cool one too. You make me wonder what it was too lol. You tested the possibilities available to you at the time, and that's what counts. You won't get any lip from me.
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    It's obvious what it was.
    It was lights.



    Sheesh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    I know you're trying to be sarcastic but actually "it" wasn't lights. What I saw was light. But the object itself . i.e. that which was emitting the light, i.e. the "it" that we're talking about, obviously wasn't light. Light cannot be emit light. Try to be more precise in your sarcasm next time.
    Ok, what you saw was an IT that emitted light. I've seen a great many light emitters.

    The short thing, Pete, is it's ok to not know what it was and be disconcerted at the mystery of it. Now, 30 years later, you can really let go of whether your memory of it is accurate or what it was that you actually saw- It's ok to not know.
    For example, I was on a drive to Austin not long ago and I saw, out of the corner of my eye, an odd image on a billboard I passed on the freeway.
    I didn't want to take my eyes off the road but I was really curious about whether I saw what I think I saw on that billboard- Could it really have been...?!
    I very quickly turned, craning my neck, but I couldn't see it in time and had to look back at the road.

    To this day, it's a mystery and unless I make a trip that way, again, remember to look when in that location- I'll never know if what I saw on that billboard was what I think I saw.
    But since it's only a billboard, the mystery isn't that interesting. It's easy to let go of it. Your experience is more interesting- not so easy to dismess.

    But like the billboard, what you think you saw and what you saw thirty years ago is just another unknown probably not really worth thinking about much. If you knew, you might find it fascinating as a military project (Of which many remain unknown for obvious reasons) or very mundane ("Jeez, really? I spent 30 years wondering about it and that's all it was!?")
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly
    I've seen a great many light emitters.
    And we care, why?
    Because you place great importance in what I say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    Oh Good Lord! What gave you that idea? Not from me returning your sarcastic remark or your off the mark assumptions I hope.
    LOL It wasn't that at all.
    I said that you place great importance in what I say because the vast majority of your threads are based entirely upon sympathy.
    You want the attention.
    From UFO encounters to rejection to chronic pain, paraflu (Easily looked up on wikipedia) you spend so much time and energy crying out for the sympathy of every member on this board, that you forget to use the resources you have available to you (mentally and the physical) to overcome a great many of your hardships.

    But 'God-Forbid' anyone suggests that the issue lies with you. This results in a deeply emotional response, angry lashing out as you behave like a teenager telling his parents that they do not understand him. Not always; you have your lucid moments. But often enough.
    And truth is, you do have my sympathies for the tragedies you have endured and continue to endure. But not for the reasons you might think- but because so much of it is more in your control than you believe it is and yet, you relinquish that control and you cry, instead. Your negative expectations result in you bringing them about.

    Pete, have no doubt in your mind- You place great importance in what I and everyone else on this forum says. You often don't want to hear it, however, and too often, I try to keep my mouth shut about it.
    You persist, though, starting new threads on the Shakespearean tragedy of Peter M. Brown phd.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    Yoiu might think it'd be fun to see a flying saucer or an alien craft or Bigfoot etc. But that's a terrible burden for a person to have to carry.
    Why would that be a burden? That seems a bizarre statement. Oh, wait1 You explain why it is a burden.

    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    You always run the risk of people telling you what it "really" was, them expecting that you didn't consider the obvious or the insane.
    And why is that a burden? For one thing that is only at risk of happening if you tell people about it. so don't tell anyone. But even if you do, what is burdensome about people going through some of the same thought processes you did at the time of the sighting? I really don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    I've heard people try to claim that it was might own headlights bouncing off the air back to me and all sorts of silly stuff.
    So people are trying to find an explanation for what you saw; they are trying to help you; and you find this burdensome? Again, I fail to see how this is a burden. Perhaps you can explain.

    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    Then there's the problem of being called a liar when the sighting is too bizzar to explain in ordinary terms.
    Again, that is only a problem if you choose to tell people about the experience. I just cannot see how it is a burden to be called a liar for for telling of something you think you saw. You know you are not lying, so what's the problem?

    So, help me understand why any of that is a burden.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly
    I said that you place great importance in what I say because the vast majority of your threads are based entirely upon sympathy. <snip other childish whining>
    Do yourself a favor and learn the difference between sympathy and empathy. You make a terrible mind reader and have a severe lackof understanding people in general. It's people like you who'd use personal info given to help with a problem and then turn around and use it in your flames to hurt someone. You're just being a terrible person when you do things like that. Shame on you.

    You’d make a lousy therapist too so don’t quit your day job. Your understanding of people and why they share painful experiences is severly lacking. And its terrible that you think you can post an educated response with such ignorance

    Since I just heard that you’re pretty much one of the forum nasties I see that your childish post of yours demonstrates it. Thanks be for the ignore list!
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    pmb, i have read and re-read your post #47 several times and am left with the same sense of disbelief.

    You say this: "To you perhaps hearing the same thing repeated every single time you tell the same story is of no bother to you. That doesn’t mean it isn’t to everyone else."


    I'm sorry pmb - STOP TELLING THE FRIGGING STORY AND YOU WON'T KEEP GETTING THE SAME FRIGGING REACTION.

    Einstein is credited with saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result. Why would you burden yourself in this deliberate way? It is ludicrous!

    You have control of this situation. You do not need to tell the story. If you do tell the story, knowing the reactions it will produce, then the only person to blame for those reactions is yourself. Do you understand why this is so?
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    Off topic Rant follows:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    <snip other childish whining>
    I have seen you do hardly anything else except whine on this forum. It's constant. You introduce personal concerns in the most negative way you can and then you whine when you get responses to it that you dislike.
    I believe you're addicted to pain killers, and you create a great deal of your own drama- such as totally over-reacting to a large corporation simply because you don't like how a girl reacted to a creepy letter delivered to her place of employment.
    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    Do yourself a favor and learn the difference between sympathy and empathy. You make a terrible mind reader and have a severe lackof understanding people in general. It's people like you who'd use personal info given to help with a problem and then turn around and use it in your flames to hurt someone. You're just being a terrible person when you do things like that. Shame on you.
    Actually, I have "an uncanny knack for delving into the basic truth of things." I sympathize not because I lack or have empathy, nor because you suffer from a cruel world- but because you create the majority of the issues you come on here and complain vehemently about. I sympathize because I pity you for being so oblivious to your own creations.
    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    You’d make a lousy therapist too so don’t quit your day job.
    True. I've been tolerant and nice to you to a point, Pete, but I reached my limit.
    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    Since I just heard that you’re pretty much one of the forum nasties
    Honesty has it's price.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    I'm sorry pmb -<snip yelling etc
    John - First off it is inappropriate to post a sentance in all caps since its considered to be poor nettiquette. In other forums its banned. It's considered to be yelling.

    Now, what is it with you and jumping to conclusions?

    In this case I said it can be a pain because we can't tell these cool stories too often for fear of the feedback you're going to get. That's the reason I rarely/don't tell it. Why would you just assume that I tell it all the time and get those expected responses? I said its a burden because I know it and, in a sense, can't talk about it (due to what I getback when I do talk about it).

    So we have a cool exxperience that's something we don't want to share for said reasons. I've only told this story a few times in my life. I could probably count them all on one hand.

    And as I said above, I'd really appreciate it if you'd stop jumping to conclusions. You did it with that lawyer thing by assuming that since I was talking about seeing a lawyer and not a doctor that I was more concerned wit the law suit than my health. In actuality, and had you chosen to ask rather than assume otherwise, then I'd have told you that I already went to a hospital to be checked out, had a CT scan and have made an appointment with a neurologist and am awaiting to see him. But because I didn't post that information (since nobody really cares about that crap) you concluded I wasn't interested in my health. Don't think that just beccause someone doesn't tell you they did something that it must mean they didn't do it.
    Last edited by pmb; January 11th, 2013 at 08:20 AM.
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    Finally, I got caught up with all the new posts. This is why I initially posted:
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatene View Post
    Yes, I am an atheist, but I will entertain just about any notion as long as it does not require belief or death to be proven. Also, abduction stories or UFO sighting stories aren't up my alley, because they cannot be proven to me.
    Check out my signature at the bottom of my posts. I realize, pmb, that you said you don't tell the story often, and I do understand why it could be a burden to have it. Because you cannot share it and not suffer ridicule or people telling you why it couldn't have been a UFO. I get it, but read my quote above again. This is a forum that has atheism written all over it, and a lot of atheists - as I am fully aware of, much more than I wanted to ever know - are just as bitter and nasty as a lot of theists.

    Despite my initial post, I did enjoy the story. I'm a writer, so I enjoy a lot of hearing/reading things like that. But, like some of the others say, there could be - and most likely is - an explanation. From your account alone I can't really think of anything. The first thing I thought of was that maybe it was those new halogen lights, and only one headlight was working, but then I remembered this was in 1980 (the year I was born, just as an anecdote). Then I started to think about just a normal headlight (I wasn't there, so I don't know how bright it was, or if it could have been a headlight). Maybe they were doing something shady and reversed as you were going forward, and when the light disappeared, they were so far away that just in the nick of time, they turned off the light, and drove into the woods or something. Once again, I wasn't there, so I do not know if that scenario was possible. If you want to continue the story, then please private message me, because I fear how the following posts would sound.

    Just remember on this forum, most of us will tear something like that down, dissect it, get to the juicy bits, and analyze the hell out of it. It's what we do.
    ---
    A fact is something that doesn't require belief or death to be tested.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatene View Post
    Finally, I got caught up with all the new posts. This is why I initially posted:
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatene View Post
    Yes, I am an atheist, but I will entertain just about any notion as long as it does not require belief or death to be proven. Also, abduction stories or UFO sighting stories aren't up my alley, because they cannot be proven to me.
    Check out my signature at the bottom of my posts. I realize, pmb, that you said you don't tell the story often, and I do understand why it could be a burden to have it. Because you cannot share it and not suffer ridicule or people telling you why it couldn't have been a UFO. I get it, but read my quote above again. This is a forum that has atheism written all over it, and a lot of atheists - as I am fully aware of, much more than I wanted to ever know - are just as bitter and nasty as a lot of theists.

    Despite my initial post, I did enjoy the story. I'm a writer, so I enjoy a lot of hearing/reading things like that. But, like some of the others say, there could be - and most likely is - an explanation. From your account alone I can't really think of anything. The first thing I thought of was that maybe it was those new halogen lights, and only one headlight was working, but then I remembered this was in 1980 (the year I was born, just as an anecdote). Then I started to think about just a normal headlight (I wasn't there, so I don't know how bright it was, or if it could have been a headlight). Maybe they were doing something shady and reversed as you were going forward, and when the light disappeared, they were so far away that just in the nick of time, they turned off the light, and drove into the woods or something. Once again, I wasn't there, so I do not know if that scenario was possible. If you want to continue the story, then please private message me, because I fear how the following posts would sound.

    Just remember on this forum, most of us will tear something like that down, dissect it, get to the juicy bits, and analyze the hell out of it. It's what we do.
    A lot of things in life can't be proven to us. E.g a man may believe his wife loves him but that's not something he'll ever be able to find out. I had yogurt for breakfast. Again something I can't prove. Some thingswe accept on the basis of the person who witnessed it. Appollo 13 Astronauts heard an explosion on their space ship. They couldn't prove it but it was accepted as true. My close friends believe what I saw (not knowing its true nature of course) and they believe me because I'm well known for not lying to people. Its a characteristic I've always wanted so I try my best never to lie or exagerate.

    One thing I'm 100% certain of - There is a very reasonable explanation for what it was. I don't believe it was alien though. I don't know why. I guess I don't buy that stuff. I will simply never know what the explanation is..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quantime View Post
    1.2? lol that is funny...and sheesh, are you an astronomer or something?
    Yes I am, I love space
    plz share your Alien Finding Equation here. (with simplified explanation) I am interested. and still if its not equation in strict sense , whatever it is, share

    and as whole... this thread is like "my dream came true" and really getting insights from all this stuff shared here by you guys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    I'm sorry pmb -<snip yelling etc
    John - First off it is inappropriate to post a sentance in all caps since its considered to be poor nettiquette. In other forums its banned. It's considered to be yelling.
    I was yelling. It seemd to be the only way I could get your attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    Now, what is it with you and jumping to conclusions?
    I don't jump to conclusions. I respond to what other members have written.

    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    In this case I said it can be a pain because we can't tell these cool stories too often for fear of the feedback you're going to get. .
    No. That is not what you said. Had you said that I would have posted a different response,, or not posted at all.

    Firstly, saying something can be a pain is colloquial usage equivalent to a bit of nuisance, or its a blinking pest. These indicate minor inconvenience an order of magnitude less than something that is a burden.

    Secondly, you are now qualifying the story as a cool story. You are a relaxed, cool dude, who would like to tell a cool story, but if he does the repsonse can be a pain. You have changed the context.

    Thirdly, you say you cannot tell these cool stories too often. You did not previously mention the frequency of the cool story telling. Contrast this sense of the occasional with your original remarks: "hearing the same thing repeated every single time you tell the same story".

    You have completely changed the context and meaning of your tale of cool stories. If you do not wish to be misinterpreted then try to write with greater precision.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    What is the connection between space aliens and religion?
    Belief. It's human nature to fill in the gaps. If it's not religion, it's conspiracies or aliens or ghosts or bigfoot. But the principle is exactly the same.
    Okay. Now, why did Gatene feel it was necessary to exclude religious views of aliens? Is there a religious view of aliens? I guess in Scientology, maybe.
    Am I missing something or are you getting a bit jumpy here. Did Gatene exclude something relevant? Is there religious views of aliens? If there are, is there any reason why they MUST be relevant to this thread? This is a science forum, I would think the scientific view of aliens would be of more interest than a religious view of aliens.

    Unless you are suggesting that we have to balance all discussions now with the religious view of all things vs the scientific view of all things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Geomensch
    Many of the so called normal human beings on this earth are aliens.
    What in the hell are you talking about?
    Same reaction I had


    Edit: I just saw what I missed. The title..... duh... feel free to disregard this massive brain fart.
    Last edited by seagypsy; January 11th, 2013 at 07:11 PM. Reason: had an epic face palm moment, nearly caused a concussion
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatene View Post
    Finally, I got caught up with all the new posts. This is why I initially posted:
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatene View Post
    Yes, I am an atheist, but I will entertain just about any notion as long as it does not require belief or death to be proven. Also, abduction stories or UFO sighting stories aren't up my alley, because they cannot be proven to me.
    Check out my signature at the bottom of my posts. I realize, pmb, that you said you don't tell the story often, and I do understand why it could be a burden to have it. Because you cannot share it and not suffer ridicule or people telling you why it couldn't have been a UFO. I get it, but read my quote above again. This is a forum that has atheism written all over it, and a lot of atheists - as I am fully aware of, much more than I wanted to ever know - are just as bitter and nasty as a lot of theists.
    I agree with this. Bitterness and nastiness is a human condition that has little to do with what we believe or don't believe. It is a reaction to reality because reality is bitter and nasty. I find contentment in my bitterness and nastiness. Its hard to have your feelings hurt when you don't give a damn what any other useless, meaningless lump of thinking flesh thinks of you. No opinion lasts forever. If I think someone is a worthless idiot, that opinion lasts only so long as my brain remains operational and fully online. When that stops so does the opinion. So opinions aren't real and don't matter.Actions are real, measurable and cause change. Opinions are merely motivations for those actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatene View Post

    Just remember on this forum, most of us will tear something like that down, dissect it, get to the juicy bits, and analyze the hell out of it. It's what we do.
    You got that right. We don't really even have a choice int eh matter. Our brains are wired that way and viewing stories like that in anyway other than how we do is like trying to get a blender to cook a steak. It simply isn't constructed in a manner conducive to that activity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    I was yelling.
    (sigh!) Yes, John. I know you were. That’s why I sadi “It's considered to be yelling.”in a previous post. It’s poor forum netiquett and I ask that you stop using it because its rude and the forum prohits rudeness. If not then I’ll stop reading and responding to youtr posts. Perhaps you’re prefer that?



    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    I don't jump to conclusions.
    The hell you don’t. I already explained to you that, in general too, knowing a secret can be a burden and for many reasons. As I said above

    Re – “Basically it has the potential to tarnish your reputation if you let it become publically know. You might get the reputation as being a flake”

    Re – “In the sense of being a pain in the ass. I personally hate hearing the same thing over and over again. Repetition drives me bonkers so I'd worry about having to go through that every time I mentioned the story or someone mentions it.”

    Perhaps more reasons too. That’s all I said about that. Then you take a long running jump to the following conclusion which is what you had to make to say the following

    Re – “stop telling the frigging story and you won’t keep getting the same frigging reaction”

    In order to write that statement you had to assume that I was telling the story often in some sense of the word “often.” Nothing could be the furthest thing from the truth. Nowehere did I ever claim that I told that story to people outside here more than a couple of times. And even then only to a very few special people in my life.

    Quote Originally Posted by pmb
    No. That is not what you said. Had you said that I would have posted a different response,, or not posted at all.
    So what? All you’re doing not is whining about sematical tidbits which have no bearing on the subject matter and I won’t give them any place in my mind. I find it quite irritating for you to take a discussion on something about a sighting and change the discussion into a class in rhetoric. I won’t stand for that kind of garbage. It’s too pathetic and childish in my opinion.

    Where in the hell do you get off suggesting tome that I write with greater precision whenwhat I said was perfectly fine. It was meant to beused to get a point across to the readers here. It was't intended to be in an instructors manual for how to talk about close encounters. So stop please with your petty bickering on such silly pathetically small points.
    Here's an idea... stop your whining about how mistreated you are so the thread can get back to the original topic. Sorry, but this thread was not supposed to be about pmb. At least I didn't notice any reference in the OP saying,"lets all listen to pmb whine about how the world mistreats him and fails to read his mind when his posts are unclear and cast him in a light of pathetic sniveling."


    Oh I know its politically incorrect to chastise someone who is in constant pain. Boohoo, get over it. You think you're the only person on this forum who has constant pain? who has had weird if not horrific experiences? Adelady for one suffers constant pain and yet she manages to stay upbeat and faces life and the mind numbing whinery that happens on this forum with style and flare without begging us all to feel sorry for her.

    No one likes pity parties so stop throwing them.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmb
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    Sorry, but this thread was not supposed to be about pmb. At least I didn't notice any reference in the OP saying,"lets all listen to pmb whine about how the world mistreats him and fails to read his mind when his posts are unclear and cast him in a light of pathetic sniveling."
    This is called jumping on the band wagon. But you're being a hypocrit and have added yourself to the group of whiners who have trouble reading english. That's the worst kinf of bitchin. You fut right in with them too though by pulling crap out of top hat
    Are you done yet? Shall I pass you a box of tissues?

    btw, love how you delete or edit the remarks you make that reveal your true nature after someone has quoted you on it. Trying to make people look like liars? or just can't stand to have the real you facing you on your screen. Look if you make an irrational remark, at least have the integrity to claim it and acknowledge that it was in appropriate. You can apologize for it, but deleting it creates the aura of deception.

    Quote Originally Posted by pmb
    <snipped waste of my time>
    Quote Originally Posted by pmb
    <snipped waste of my time>
    lmao wow, I think I have witnessed for the first time, an example of internet stuttering.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    duplicate of previous post
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    [QUOTE=seagypsy;383783][QUOTE=pmb;383775]
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    I was yelling.
    (sigh!) Yes, John. I know you were. That’s why I sadi “It's considered to be yelling.”in a previous post. It’s poor forum netiquett and I ask that you stop using it because its rude and the forum prohits rudeness. If not then I’ll stop reading and responding to youtr posts. Perhaps you’re prefer that?



    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    Here's an idea... stop your whining about how mistreated you are …
    I don’t whine and accusing me of doing so is well known to be the worst way to go about it claiming otherwise.


    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    Sorry, but this thread was not supposed to be about pmb.
    Of course not. I posted what I thought about it and a key moment in my life that has kept me having an open mind and I soon gained the wisdom not to talk about it. John can’t read so he assumed I talked to everybody about it. Then he coudn’t admit his error and it went the way of the dogs at that point. I got tired of all his nonsense so I stripped it all out of my posts

    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    At least I didn't notice any reference in the OP saying,"lets all listen to pmb whine about how the world mistreats him and fails to read his mind when his posts are unclear and cast him in a light of pathetic sniveling."
    What exactly was it that made you a world class bitch today? Were you always like this or did somebody hurt your feelings?

    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    Oh I know its politically incorrect to chastise someone who is in constant pain. Boohoo, get over it.
    It’s not merely a politically incorrect thing to do. It’s a sick and disturbed thing to do. You’re ignorant on this kind of thing I can tell. Somehow I get the feeling that you had a fight somewhere in your life and its become so routine and so heavy that when you see other people talking about similar things you get royally pissed off and try to use what they’ve posted in trust to hurth them. Mainly because when a trust is violated you’ve not just hurt that one person but everyone else here who has had, has or will have a time in their life when they’ll need to chat about something in a forum and not be shit on by the lowlys like you. Please take your ignorance train and go home.
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    [QUOTE=pmb;383796][QUOTE=seagypsy;383783]
    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    I was yelling.
    (sigh!) Yes, John. I know you were. That’s why I sadi “It's considered to be yelling.”in a previous post. It’s poor forum netiquett and I ask that you stop using it because its rude and the forum prohits rudeness. If not then I’ll stop reading and responding to youtr posts. Perhaps you’re prefer that?



    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    Here's an idea... stop your whining about how mistreated you are …
    I don’t whine and accusing me of doing so is well known to be the worst way to go about it claiming otherwise.


    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    Sorry, but this thread was not supposed to be about pmb.
    Of course not. I posted what I thought about it and a key moment in my life that has kept me having an open mind and I soon gained the wisdom not to talk about it. John can’t read so he assumed I talked to everybody about it. Then he coudn’t admit his error and it went the way of the dogs at that point. I got tired of all his nonsense so I stripped it all out of my posts

    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    At least I didn't notice any reference in the OP saying,"lets all listen to pmb whine about how the world mistreats him and fails to read his mind when his posts are unclear and cast him in a light of pathetic sniveling."
    What exactly was it that made you a world class bitch today? Were you always like this or did somebody hurt your feelings?

    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy
    Oh I know its politically incorrect to chastise someone who is in constant pain. Boohoo, get over it.
    It’s not merely a politically incorrect thing to do. It’s a sick and disturbed thing to do.
    And?
    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    You’re ignorant on this kind of thing I can tell.
    Jump to conclusions often? or do you think you know me? Funny, you jumped John Galt's case for this very thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    Somehow I get the feeling that you had a fight somewhere in your life and its become so routine and so heavy that when you see other people talking about similar things you get royally pissed off and try to use what they’ve posted in trust to hurth them.
    Any evidence to support that or are you just jumping to conclusions. You make a shitty therapist and a worse psychic. Don't quit your day job.
    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    Mainly because when a trust is violated you’ve not just hurt that one person but everyone else here who has had, has or will have a time in their life when they’ll need to chat about something in a forum and not be shit on by the lowlys like you.
    Awww... look at you trying to hurt feelings. Fail. Can't hurt feelings of people who couldn't care less if you failed to exist in the next five minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    Please take your ignorance train and go home.
    I'm not ignorant, i just don't care because like you said, I am a cold heartless bitch. No one hurt my feelings. I just don't have any. Anymore questions?... btw, I am at home. Maybe you should take your whining to a therapist who is paid to listen to it.

    Why would you trust strangers with your feelings? What gave you the impression that was a good idea?
    Last edited by seagypsy; January 11th, 2013 at 06:45 PM.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatene View Post
    First off, I don't want it believed that I am being biased on the religious. I grew up religious and stayed religious for 27 years, and now at 32, I am an atheist. I've heard/believed it all from a religious standpoint.

    With that being said, my partner is a devout believer in aliens. He's had me watching Ancient Aliens, had me listening to Coast to Coast AM, and lots of different things to do with aliens. Some say, "If we are alone in the universe, it would be a terrible waste of space". I agree with this, but at the same time, I haven't seen an alien, and I do not have a way to go out into outer space to look for any extra terrestrials. Yes, I am an atheist, but I will entertain just about any notion as long as it does not require belief or death to be proven. Also, abduction stories or UFO sighting stories aren't up my alley, because they cannot be proven to me. For me, we know that the government is working on our aircrafts, so seeing a UFO is seeing just that, and Unidentified Flying Object. I just want other people's opinions and/or evidences that are tangible.

    ~Gatene
    Just thought I'd redirect the thread back to the op.

    Like most of the science wired minds that have posted here, I don't doubt that there is other life out there somewhere, and I imagine that of it could be intelligent though I doubt it considering there has been no evidence of intelligent life anywhere so far (earth included, face it we are all idiots who fancy ourselves intelligent but are we, really?), but I do doubt that our little rock is being visited. We are just so damned far away from everything else that I doubt that we are cool, interesting or dangerous enough to be worth the effort to visit. It would be awesome though if we could find another planet to spit intergalactic spit wads at though.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    When we talk about aliens, we are not just talking about life. We often mean something closer to our own. What we really want is someone like us.

    Look at our own planet. With so much living diversity there is only one like us. The same can be said for any other species, there is only one like them. Yes, there are similarities , but they all differ in some way. So if you project those odds outward into the galaxy, what are the chances of finding another like us.

    The argument I often hear is that with so many possibilities, life supporting planets in the galaxy etc. some would have to have evolved "intelligent civilizations" or whatever. Would not all those possibilities also increase the number of ways that it could evolve differently? And when we say things like that, are we not implying a bias that evolution will tend to go the way we went.

    I would like to see someone here who is better versed in statistics to address this. Not just the probability that life exists elsewhere, but how close it could come to approximate our own.

    I honestly liked it when there were canal building civilizations on Mars, and Venus was populated by gorgeous amazonian women. I blame science for destroying that. But that's ok, we have spaced based telescopes, and we have been to the moon since then. The universe has become richer. There are Klingons, Cardassians, and Cylons. We are not alone. Yet we are still looking for two snowflakes that are alike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
    When we talk about aliens, we are not just talking about life. We often mean something closer to our own. What we really want is someone like us.

    Look at our own planet. With so much living diversity there is only one like us. The same can be said for any other species, there is only one like them. Yes, there are similarities , but they all differ in some way. So if you project those odds outward into the galaxy, what are the chances of finding another like us.

    The argument I often hear is that with so many possibilities, life supporting planets in the galaxy etc. some would have to have evolved "intelligent civilizations" or whatever. Would not all those possibilities also increase the number of ways that it could evolve differently? And when we say things like that, are we not implying a bias that evolution will tend to go the way we went.

    I would like to see someone here who is better versed in statistics to address this. Not just the probability that life exists elsewhere, but how close it could come to approximate our own.

    I honestly liked it when there were canal building civilizations on Mars, and Venus was populated by gorgeous amazonian women. I blame science for destroying that. But that's ok, we have spaced based telescopes, and we have been to the moon since then. The universe has become richer. There are Klingons, Cardassians, and Cylons. We are not alone. Yet we are still looking for two snowflakes that are alike.
    In our collective imaginations, we are gods and we want to create intelligent life in our own image.

    Intended to psychological, not religious.
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    NM?..

    hmm..i remember a time when we were playing with some high power flashlights in the back of a pickup doing 100..
    (kidding..30 yrs ago i was in california..)
    The term 'Free' in Free thinking, does not imply control....
    Intelligence is being able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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    <snipped seagypsy's whining>

    The more repulsive posters belong in the ignore file. Get used to being there. It's where the more disgusting posters should stay.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmb View Post
    <snipped seagypsy's whining>

    The more repulsive posters belong in the ignore file. Get used to being there. It's where the more disgusting posters should stay.
    oww ouch oh the pain please stop! don't put me there! anywhere but there! what a detriment to my life and TSF experience... oh wait.... nevermind.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
    Look at our own planet. With so much living diversity there is only one like us. The same can be said for any other species, there is only one like them. Yes, there are similarities , but they all differ in some way. So if you project those odds outward into the galaxy, what are the chances of finding another like us.

    The argument I often hear is that with so many possibilities, life supporting planets in the galaxy etc. some would have to have evolved "intelligent civilizations" or whatever. Would not all those possibilities also increase the number of ways that it could evolve differently? And when we say things like that, are we not implying a bias that evolution will tend to go the way we went.
    I love that. I've always thought that way since I believed of the possibility of extra terrestrial life. There are so many possibilities out there of how evolution went on any planet. a ball of slime, a gaseous substance, a fully functional single-footed being, so many ways evolution could be different. It intrigues me no extent. Although, I'd probably be timid if I saw an extra terrestrial, but I would like to think I would get over it quickly, and my intrigue and thirst for knowledge would kick in.
    ---
    A fact is something that doesn't require belief or death to be tested.
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    what I find interesting is how we define intelligence. Seems pretty arrogant to me, that we define intelligence in such a way that it can almost never apply to any other life form on earth. Self awareness can only be determined by human standards by way of human understanding and communication. We simply cannot prove that ants are not self aware. Personally I wonder all the time if other species on our own planet also have the god complex that we have. Do they also imagine that they are the only intelligent species on the planet? Do they assume we are mindless drones only operating on some program we can't escape? Do they think we are driven by instinct alone? If they do, are they right?
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatene View Post
    I love that. I've always thought that way since I believed of the possibility of extra terrestrial life. There are so many possibilities out there of how evolution went on any planet. a ball of slime, a gaseous substance, a fully functional single-footed being, so many ways evolution could be different. It intrigues me no extent. Although, I'd probably be timid if I saw an extra terrestrial, but I would like to think I would get over it quickly, and my intrigue and thirst for knowledge would kick in.
    Since evolution is change, it's a matter of timing. Look at the variation on Earth. We are nothing like trilobites. Except for common ancestry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
    When we talk about aliens, we are not just talking about life. We often mean something closer to our own. What we really want is someone like us
    If this were a car forum or a snowboarding forum, I would say you're probably right. I like to think the people of a science forum appreciate the idea of finding single-celled life on another planet. Even just finding amino acids on carbon rich meteorites is exciting.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    what do you mean inteligent life out there..first we have to find it here..

    finding single celled life would be cool..it would be proof of concept..that life can exist on other worlds.

    (my cat thinks im God..does that count?)
    The term 'Free' in Free thinking, does not imply control....
    Intelligence is being able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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    Prove that kitty thinks that.

    I so could post an Edward Current video here...
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    prove he doesn't..
    post it..
    The term 'Free' in Free thinking, does not imply control....
    Intelligence is being able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    God is not inside the box.
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    My cat doesn't look at me with awe or fear. He looks at my with a mix of derision and frustration. Like I'm a meal that's just too damn big to bring down.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
    When we talk about aliens, we are not just talking about life. We often mean something closer to our own. What we really want is someone like us
    If this were a car forum or a snowboarding forum, I would say you're probably right. I like to think the people of a science forum appreciate the idea of finding single-celled life on another planet. Even just finding amino acids on carbon rich meteorites is exciting.
    You are right of course, and this is a science forum. However, when you read the posts here and elsewhere on the subject, you see that the interest quickly narrows down to a particular kind of life form. An "alien" . The discussions which follow from that tend to diverge from the more inclusive topic of extraterrestrial life. I would not say car or snowboarding, more like science fiction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    what I find interesting is how we define intelligence. Seems pretty arrogant to me, that we define intelligence in such a way that it can almost never apply to any other life form on earth. Self awareness can only be determined by human standards by way of human understanding and communication. We simply cannot prove that ants are not self aware. Personally I wonder all the time if other species on our own planet also have the god complex that we have. Do they also imagine that they are the only intelligent species on the planet? Do they assume we are mindless drones only operating on some program we can't escape? Do they think we are driven by instinct alone? If they do, are they right?
    the word intelligence always seems to need a lot of qualifiers. If we define it as information processing ability, and maybe brain mass to body ratio, then the dolphin surpasses us. An ant would probably think you dumb, because you would not be able to read their sophisticated chemical trails. (not that such an interaction is possible) Intelligence is also not always a survival trait. It's possible to be too smart for your own good. I think other species are dumb enough to have the wisdom not to be concerned about such things.
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    i think they would look close enough to us to count..
    if they are intelligent..then they will find a way to express it..which means fingers and such..

    by evolutions law they would evolve to live in their environment..earth has lots of different enviroments..nothing science fictiony growing up there..
    and if they find inteligent life in the goldilocks zone,it makes sense that the habitat would be similar to earth..so it also makes sense that inteligent life would evolve similiar to us.
    The term 'Free' in Free thinking, does not imply control....
    Intelligence is being able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    God is not inside the box.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMSquirrel View Post
    i think they would look close enough to us to count..
    if they are intelligent..then they will find a way to express it..which means fingers and such..
    Some human cultures do not count.
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    aliens are either japanese, koreans or chinese. If you look at the picture of an alien you will realise that the eyes of aliens are similar to the three examples i mentioned earlier
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    aliens are either japanese, koreans or chinese. If you look at the picture of an alien you will realise that the eyes of aliens are similar to the three examples i mentioned earlier
    Nobody has ever seen a picture of an alien.
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    I think my cat sees me as a surrogate mother cat and domestication brings a sort of suspended kitten hood, where my loving pats are like a mother's tongue, walks in the woods like his moms training/play time, and my bodies warmth like his mothers where he can curl up and enjoy life's simple pleasures.

    Alien life could be so alien that we might completely miss it all together.
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    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    aliens are either japanese, koreans or chinese. If you look at the picture of an alien you will realise that the eyes of aliens are similar to the three examples i mentioned earlier
    If this were Top Gear, I think this post could earn you the Golden Cock award.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    It's incredibly narcissistic to say that we are undoubtedly the only species in the universe. However, I disagree with saying that the implications of there being another species are inconsequential. If we are in fact, the only sentient species in the universe, in a sense, we are the only meaningful bit of matter in existence. If another, perhaps more sentient species exists, we are just one meaningful creation, instead of the only meaningful creation. As for alien visitations, I'm a devout skeptic any have occurred. A species that developed the technology necessary for interstellar/galactic travel, would have so much to offer us, in both culture and science. I cannot conceive of a race so selfish, as to travel all the way to Earth, without aiding our progress as a species similar to their being.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedFreek View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by parag29081973 View Post
    aliens are either japanese, koreans or chinese. If you look at the picture of an alien you will realise that the eyes of aliens are similar to the three examples i mentioned earlier
    Nobody has ever seen a picture of an alien.
    seen plenty of pictures of aliens..got a book to prove it..(Barlow's guide to Extraterestrials)..

    have not seen any actual photographs of actual aliens..(well,discount hollywood and such, and of potential fakes)
    The term 'Free' in Free thinking, does not imply control....
    Intelligence is being able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMSquirrel View Post
    seen plenty of pictures of aliens..got a book to prove it..(Barlow's guide to Extraterestrials)..
    Bad Squirrel!
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    It's incredibly narcissistic to say that we are undoubtedly the only species in the universe. However, I disagree with saying that the implications of there being another species are inconsequential. If we are in fact, the only sentient species in the universe, in a sense, we are the only meaningful bit of matter in existence. If another, perhaps more sentient species exists, we are just one meaningful creation, instead of the only meaningful creation. As for alien visitations, I'm a devout skeptic any have occurred. A species that developed the technology necessary for interstellar/galactic travel, would have so much to offer us, in both culture and science. I cannot conceive of a race so selfish, as to travel all the way to Earth, without aiding our progress as a species similar to their being.
    It stems again to a prime directive, in the same way we wouldn't willfully elicit eugenics in dolphins or orangutans perhaps. Maybe becoming intergalatic and interstellar requires a level of sapience akin to the ascending of thought from our older ansectors to homo-sapiens, maybe we just can't do it. For now at least.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    I dated an alien once....she had really big boobs, and could cook the hell out of some tamales. Also made a great salsa verde.

    Ooops...wrong kind of alien.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pyoko View Post
    Apart from the obvious huge-universe-with-almost-endless-possibilities thing that has no doubt been expressed already, I can say that I have 99% sure I have seen one of their craft, relatively close up (was a huge metal sphere with lights). Was reported all over the radio, too. But as usual, the story died out completely over the next couple of days as people fool themselves that it was the planet Venus or swamp gas or a prank or a balloon.
    Shame nobody had a camera from this century around....

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatene
    It'd be cool though, assuming they wouldn't be here for a conquest.
    I think i can safely say that would be the greatest day of my life if that ever happens. I can't imagine why they would want to conquer us though. There is nothing special here, except for life (if that is special at all). I always hate it when some scientist makes the "would you worry about treading on an ant?" or similar caution of impending doom in scifi movies.
    Hi, KALSTER. People back in the early 90's didn't really have camera phones. The only digital camera I had was an enormous Kodak one But you are right. Lots of people saw it and the weirdest thing is not the UFO itself but the way how people block it from their mind. They do it so well that it does not occur for them to take out a camera and actually document it. They were looking at something incredible but there was no feeling of it being incredible because we instantly condition our minds to ignore this. I behaved like that as well, and found it strange years later.
    It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyoko View Post

    Hi, KALSTER. People back in the early 90's didn't really have camera phones. The only digital camera I had was an enormous Kodak one But you are right. Lots of people saw it and the weirdest thing is not the UFO itself but the way how people block it from their mind. They do it so well that it does not occur for them to take out a camera and actually document it. They were looking at something incredible but there was no feeling of it being incredible because we instantly condition our minds to ignore this. I behaved like that as well, and found it strange years later.
    Pyoko that's absolute B.S.
    People go NUTS over UFO's. They think flocks of seagulls are flying saucers. There is noway you can make a compelling argument that most people block it from their minds and convince themselves it's swamp gas or Venus.
    Pareidolia is very common.
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  96. #95  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    I cannot conceive of a race so selfish, as to travel all the way to Earth, without aiding our progress as a species similar to their being.
    You should get out more.
    Quantime and seagypsy like this.
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  97. #96  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    Considering how difficult it is for human beings to see similarities among the different cultures I can easily see why another species wouldn't bother to think we are worth helping. For that matter I don't think the human race is worth helping. And I know I am not alone in this. I may not be a member of a majority but I am certainly not unique.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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  98. #97  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    II cannot conceive of a race so selfish, as to travel all the way to Earth, without aiding our progress as a species similar to their being.
    Clearly, you've never met the human race.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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  99. #98  
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Considering how difficult it is for human beings to see similarities among the different cultures I can easily see why another species wouldn't bother to think we are worth helping. For that matter I don't think the human race is worth helping. And I know I am not alone in this. I may not be a member of a majority but I am certainly not unique.
    i agree..
    The term 'Free' in Free thinking, does not imply control....
    Intelligence is being able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    God is not inside the box.
    http://squirrels-nest.proboards.com/
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  100. #99  
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    I'm thinking large complex colonies of fungi. Forming neural networks through their roots and surface structures. They can't leave the planet so they send out spores into space. Some may have already landed here. By the time we find out how intelligent they are it will be too late. They will have changed the chemistry of our planet irreversibly to facilitate their conquest. I mean, how do you talk to a mushroom?
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  101. #100  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
    I mean, how do you talk to a mushroom?
    You don't.

    You eat it.
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