Thread: Disexisting yourself.

So if matter enters a "wormhole" and shows up in the past so that it can enter the same wormhole again, it creates an infinite loop which means it has always existed, it arose in motion directing to that wormhole OR it has never existed in the first place and timetravel is a fantasy.


But when it's a single loop it mustn't be disrupted by itself, otherwise it would just "disexist" itself.
So what this means is if any person changes the past so that your past self behaves even a little different,
you are "disexisting" yourself which can not be, because you can not "disexist" yourself.

There must be a law of nature here, like Einsteins relativity theory that prevents your future self from interacting directly or indirectly with your past self, and when i'm talking about "indirectly" I mean as indirect as "indirectly" can possibly be.
So let's say something like a proximity ban, like you are not allowed to approach a radius of 30 miles where your past self is the center.
But this wouldn't work very well because you can still "disexist" yourself by launching a nuclear strike on your past self.


So if anyone has an idea, it would be appreciated by me and humanity. Thanks

Originally Posted by mohammedb060

So if anyone has an idea, it would be appreciated by me and humanity. Thanks

As a member of humanity, I would suggest that you only speak for yourself. As I do not need any input on this idea you have. The only input I have for you is that it is based on science fiction, not reality.

Originally Posted by mohammedb060

OR it has never existed in the first place and timetravel is a fantasy

That's the one.

Originally Posted by seagypsy

As a member of humanity, I would suggest that you only speak for yourself. As I do not need any input on this idea you have. The only input I have for you is that it is based on science fiction, not reality.

All ideas are based on science fiction until they become reality. Ideas may not have the rigorous testing from a hypothesis but some claims are more credible than others. Time travel is feasibly possible and exists in some forms that are proven and some that aren't.

So if matter enters a "wormhole" and shows up in the past so that it can enter the same wormhole again, it creates an infinite loop which means it has always existed, it arose in motion directing to that wormhole OR it has never existed in the first place and timetravel is a fantasy.

That is a very interesting thought, I had it a few years ago and believe I can answer your question. I based the idea on a man travelling back in time and being arrested for showing magic (technology). He is imprisoned and suddenly himself from the future comes forth and gives him the key to get out, where did he come from? Anyway he escapes using the key and decides that before he goes to the future again, in an effort of goodwill he decides to pass on the key to his past self. In effect, this is the same key being passed over and over again. Now you have to ask two questions here:

1: When was the first key passed over?
2: What will happen when they key eventually degrades and rusts until it no longer works? (This is in equivalence to your question of matter repeatedly going through a wormhole, in time the wormhole could collapse and/or the molecules would decay and eventually the protons decaying).

You know that number two here is fixed, it WILL happen as it is part of an entropic system of events, however the fascinating question is how did the first event take place of the passing of the key? We know that everything began at the big bang so when wormholes could have formed there must have been a start point much after that. But all of these notions do not mean that it is to last for eternity, THAT is beyond science fiction; it is impossible.

There must be a law of nature here, like Einsteins relativity theory that prevents your future self from interacting directly or indirectly with your past self, and when i'm talking about "indirectly" I mean as indirect as "indirectly" can possibly be.

There is no law, only quantum fluctuation. A common explanation of paradoxes is that you have to create a natural 'non-interference' law that magically happens to prevent paradoxes. Here is a paradox in the 2nd dimension. I walk into a two dimensional house and then come out of it by entering the 3rd dimension above and then lowering to outside, it is a paradox that I am there as I could not have left the house but through the door, it is also a paradox if I cut an apple in half and then move it to another part of the two dimensional world, it exists in two places at once, seemingly again impossible. If you add an extra dimension, the paradox is resolved. The universe might be more than four dimensions.

So if anyone has an idea, it would be appreciated by me and humanity. Thanks

Did you add humanity to the end because you thought nobody would appreciate your theory if you had said only you would be grateful? If you have a theory sooner or later someone with a brain will answer it, it is only human deceny to answer a question by another human being and your post made absolute sense and had logical three dimensional reasoning behind it. I appreciated your post Don't worry about others not taking your ideas so seriously, not everyone has the ability of lateral thinking and with strange ideas like that it's not suprising you expected people to not take you seriously, it's no new story that people aren't open to new ideas or at least grace them with some thought.

Originally Posted by Quantime

That is a very interesting thought, I had it a few years ago and believe I can answer your question. I based the idea on a man travelling back in time and being arrested for showing magic (technology). He is imprisoned and suddenly himself from the future comes forth and gives him the key to get out, where did he come from? Anyway he escapes using a key and decides that before he goes to the future again, in a effort of goodwill he decides to pass on the key to his past self. In effect, this is the same key being passed over and over again.

Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure: How do they know Rufus's name? Because their future selves introduce him as Rufus. How do their future selves know his name? Because they were told it by their future selves ...

Originally Posted by Strange

Originally Posted by Quantime

That is a very interesting thought, I had it a few years ago and believe I can answer your question. I based the idea on a man travelling back in time and being arrested for showing magic (technology). He is imprisoned and suddenly himself from the future comes forth and gives him the key to get out, where did he come from? Anyway he escapes using a key and decides that before he goes to the future again, in a effort of goodwill he decides to pass on the key to his past self. In effect, this is the same key being passed over and over again.

Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure: How do they know Rufus's name? Because their future selves introduce him as Rufus. How do their future selves know his name? Because they were told it by their future selves ...

That is the question of when the first event we know as the key being passed on was started; we don't.

BOGUS!!

So if anyone has an idea, it would be appreciated by me and humanity. Thanks

Did you add humanity to the end because you thought nobody would appreciate your theory if you had said only you would be grateful? If you have a theory sooner or later someone with a brain will answer it, it is only human deceny to answer a question by another human being and your post made absolute sense and had logical three dimensional reasoning behind it. I appreciated your post Don't worry about others not taking your ideas so seriously, not everyone has the ability of lateral thinking and with strange ideas like that it's not suprising you expected people to not take you seriously, it's no new story that people aren't open to new ideas or at least grace them with some thought.

There's an other reason for that, because originally I posted this thought on an other site that didn't have anything to do with science, so I copypasted it. I added that so I could filter out stupid or non reasonable reactions. So I forgot to take that out.

In the end I got a comment on this, how ironic

OK here's an other thought:

What if, let's say you go back in time 1 day. You erase the matter and space your past self consists of until the time you show up in the past, it would mean you (future self) need, or don't have a choice, to do everything and behave exactly as your past self did so that nothing changes. But when you think about it it just doesn't make any sense because the matter and space your future self consists of, is different than the matter and space your past self consists of. Think about the atoms your memories of the future consist of.

So the only thing I can think of is when you want to be able to travel back in time you need to erase the universe backwards in time except yourself.

Somehow.

Maybe we'll never travel back in time

So if anyone has any ideas, it would be appreciated by the universe and god and Mohammed and Jesus and me,
joke, just me and anyone else who wants to appreciate it.

Thanks

Originally Posted by mohammedb060

What if, let's say you go back in time 1 day. You erase the matter and space your past self consists of until the time you show up in the past

So we exist for x amount of days say 25 years worth of days plus ONE day, we then erase yourself of existing in that ONE extra day, okay...

it would mean you (future self) need, or don't have a choice, to do everything and behave exactly as your past self did so that nothing changes.

So you are saying that your future self has no choice but to stick to established events, okay. If he is part of a chain of entropic events then he can but of course he hasn't foreknowledge of his OWN experience of travelling back in time. But then again you are stating that he has to stick to established events as if its 'law' of time travel, again this isn't and won't be the case; nobody can know their own future.

But when you think about it it just doesn't make any sense because the matter and space your future self consists of, is different than the matter and space your past self consists of.

Well it is the same matte just with a different amount of energy/spin/momentum all kinds of other variations in quantum matter that has fluctuated differently than your current self (his relative past self) because quantum time is different to macro time, so he is different matter.

Think about the atoms your memories of the future consist of.

Well this doesn't really... matter because he will remember more or less the same, he will have memories you don't but depending on your experience yours may be different and then again may not, again you won't know until you experience it and compare with him.

So the only thing I can think of is when you want to be able to travel back in time you need to erase the universe backwards in time except yourself.

Nope, not at all. You are thinking of timetravel as being some kind of interconnected entropic system, when you go back in time the second law of thermodynamics is violated, entropy reverses, all kinds of spooky unnatural things occur, you are having a paradox of thought because you are thinking a forwards entropic system is behaving forwards when you are going backwards; you don't have to erase anything at all 10 seconds from now the universe locally is different from 10 seconds ago and from now, yet they all exist as separate objects all with their systems of entropy different to each other, as soon as you go back in time you have already made the universe you came from different, which doesn't need violating for you to exist (multiverse theory).

Maybe we'll never travel back in time

Maybe we'll never fly, maybe we'll never sail the seas, maybe we'll never go into space. Yes, maybe we wouldn't have, but maybe we will.

So if anyone has any ideas, it would be appreciated by the universe and god and Mohammed and Jesus and me, joke

If only several billion other people....

well stating that the future self has to depend on the past self;in the human brain information gets copied to new atoms and the new atoms to the others,so as to keep your memory intact........so in terms of time travel is see no how can't say that the past self copies all its information and its existence in the universe existence and in its human existence to the future self....as did the atoms of the brain,so the new brain cannot exist with the memories of you without the memories of the old brain been passed to it....so also will your future self not exist if all the light cones were not passed to it by your passed self...................so in other to go back you will have to bring back the old brain from where donknow..and if any changes were made to this old brain they ought to be copied to the new brain....so also if go back and change anything in my past,it should reflect in my future because my future is my past the light cones are just changed and the atoms along side......this is my view.using the brain example,i believe we can make a valid argument that increases our possible view.