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Thread: Where's humanity heading?

  1. #1 Where's humanity heading? 
    Forum Junior epidecus's Avatar
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    I feel like my faith in humanity and the modern world dies a little every day.

    Recently, I've sort of been in a negative, semi-depressed mood. But I honestly feel like just running to the mountains and becoming a subsistence nomad. Just living the simple life. It's really nothing of personal matter. Rather, it's pretty much just the general human condition that worries me. Sure, there's good people doing good deeds. Many bright spots in everyday life. Innocent fun and play. Great music to discover and indulge in. But there's always a bad side, and it seems like its sweeping the first world into oblivion.

    Like, here in the US, we have air-heads for leaders. Has anyone else heard the sheer ignorance pouring out of DC? The nonsensical anti-scientific comments being made by our most influential politicians is disturbing. Are these really supposed to be the people running our country?

    From here, I can go on a rant if I'd like. There's a myriad of issues I can point out now that I'm particularly focused on negative problems... The youth media. Public trends of thought. Global economic turmoil, etc... but I'm sure you don't really care about my complaints. I just want to know what you think.

    Is the world as a whole really going to shit? If so, what should we do about it?


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    I'm in complete agreement with you. Living a simple life does seem like the way to go when you consider all these problems but are we really good people if we see the world going to shit and do nothing?

    I personally think capitalism is the cause of all our problems. Eliminate capitalism and you eliminate the selfish chase for money and power. If humans can learn to work alongside each other rather than compete against each other for dominance (everybody should be equal), we would eliminate the majority of the problems we face e.g. the narrow minded trends of thought, economic turmoil etc.

    And as far as the laughable nature of politicians goes, I believe the current method in which democracy is practiced is wrong. People don’t vote the best leaders, they vote the most popular people, who probably also have great oratory prowess. Ideally, they should research all plausible candidates and pick the best, but they base their choices on their hunches and personal biases.

    I'm in complete agreement with you. Living a simple life does seem like the way to go. (Ignore the rest)




    I personally think capitalism is the cause of all our problems. Eliminate capitalism and you eliminate the selfish chase for money and power. If humans can learn to work along side ea


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    Where is humanity heading? Maybe you could answer it your self if you tried, I don't think it is that hard to see at least not any more. I am still a firm knower that backwards is forwards, in the same sense that in order to move forward you have to know where you are coming from. We are an evolving exsistance on the planet, we are different people on the same planet. We share commonalities for exsistence purposes, in other words we are connected on and through this planet.

    If there was ever an experiment carried out in our galaxy experiment earth project must be one of the toughest. Different types of people are present on the planet trying to find a recipe for the harmonious development of the human species. They are vying for space as the small baby plants struggle for a space under the yoke of the grown tree.

    At one time there was peace on the land a very long time ago where people were the prime celebration untill something happened and material possesions wealth, pomp, and pagentry began to dominate. People began to sell their souls for things and promisses. They created systems and technology and devised a common system to control masses in order to become lords over the minority.

    They began to plunder, rob, steal, and carried people off into slavery and wars. They have developed a hostile stand to other cultures and way of life by creating a monitary system that impeads rather than embodies. They have hoarded white people and black against each other by way of devide and concur.

    I mean I could go on, we can ask ourselves what have we done wrong to find ourselves here dissatisfied, rejected and want change.
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    You can run to the mountains or you can fight to change what you don't like.

    I still see the potential in my country. We're letting pride get in the way of honesty, but I'm not putting the nails in the coffin just yet.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    As bad as things seem, for most modern peoples, things are far better now than at any time in our past--even our recent past. We're altogether healthier, live longer, suffer less crime, are exposed to fewer wars, better protected from intellectual or property theft, and less prone to severe shortages of basic things such food and water.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    As bad as things seem, for most modern peoples, things are far better now than at any time in our past--even our recent past. We're altogether healthier, live longer, suffer less crime, are exposed to fewer wars, better protected from intellectual or property theft, and less prone to severe shortages of basic things such food and water.
    Lynx, I would agree with you if you live in Washington, or the US, but generally I would not agree on a global scale. I could take all of the things you quoted and show that the other side is quite different depending on where you choose. The main objective is to produce a harmonious environment for all humans to live in. This does not mean just people, it includes everything. We first need to acknowledge the cultural diversity on the planet and recognise our selves as family. Mother father was the door we entered into this physical aspect of life and death, it is the star gate to the cosmos, we must reconise this phenomenon in order to enjoy what we have created.

    This version of life we have created cannot know harmony untill we can understand the fundamentals of ourselves.
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    I think thats a subjective opinion lynx... and probably almost impossible to be able to verify.

    just to present an other view point:
    40 years of an emotionally fullfilling freedom... or 80 years of conforming to the authority of others?

    Give me a tribe in a forest with crystal clear unpolluted water and enough land with all necesary plants for food and materials anyday, thanks. I bet I'd still live to 60, which is old enough for me, and I bet i'd be healthier and stronger too. I'd have a huge house made from natural products for me and the many females I live with. My sons and daughters would contribute to the comunity meaning life becomes easier for me in old age.

    If an intelligent human being wants to trade daughters and the daughters are happy with it then fine, it will tighten bonds between my comunity and the neighbouring comunities. We will all work together and cooperate. Any idiots will remove themselves from the gene pool... but none would become infected by such idiocy as we all have all we need and share freely, and there are no devious people to stir up crazy ideas about being greedy and such.

    Man it could be so good. Sure this way of life will not produce rovers to land on mars... but it will produce a healthy and fullfilling life experience that beats the life experiences of most of us today, hands down.

    Now excuse me, I need to go sign on and recieve 'benefits' from my society which actually emasculates me... then i need to go and buy some unhealthy food becuase the healthy stuff is too expensive. Then I need to buy some ciggies made with bleached tabacco which has been soaked in hundreds of deadly substances, including Asnic. I have to do this becuase I was infected by the advertising campaigns that my government allow to be shown on t.v for so long, and now i'm addicted. Then I need to get some beer for the weekend as it helps me feel like im living some kind of life. Then i need to buy some exspencive cloths made from polyester which has lots of static electricity and doesn't allow my skin to breath, it makes me smell nasty. then I need to pimp myself out and tell lies to fat cat arrogant employers so that they will hire me, I even have to pretend I want to do meanial tasks for them.
    Then I go home and watch Jeremy kyle becuase it makes it all ok when I see others with more serious problems than I have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    You can run to the mountains or you can fight to change what you don't like.

    I still see the potential in my country. We're letting pride get in the way of honesty, but I'm not putting the nails in the coffin just yet.
    What if the mountain can't hide you, are you going to live by yourself? What has to be changed is the hearts of men, what could bring about such a change, I hardly beleive running to the mountain will achieve that.

    Potentials are always there and everywhere, I would ask you, are you letting pride get in the way since you are one of the citizens of your country?
    I want to be very honest with you, although you say you are not ready to put the nail in the coffin, it is very possible you are speaking from the coffin. Sometimes we rather not look where the light is shinning and although we are afraid of the dark we find comfort there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    I think thats a subjective opinion lynx... and probably almost impossible to be able to verify.

    just to present an other view point:
    40 years of an emotionally fullfilling freedom... or 80 years of conforming to the authority of others?

    Give me a tribe in a forest with crystal clear unpolluted water and enough land with all necesary plants for food and materials anyday, thanks. I bet I'd still live to 60, which is old enough for me, and I bet i'd be healthier and stronger too. I'd have a huge house made from natural products for me and the many females I live with. My sons and daughters would contribute to the comunity meaning life becomes easier for me in old age.

    If an intelligent human being wants to trade daughters and the daughters are happy with it then fine, it will tighten bonds between my comunity and the neighbouring comunities. We will all work together and cooperate. Any idiots will remove themselves from the gene pool... but none would become infected by such idiocy as we all have all we need and share freely, and there are no devious people to stir up crazy ideas about being greedy and such.

    Man it could be so good. Sure this way of life will not produce rovers to land on mars... but it will produce a healthy and fullfilling life experience that beats the life experiences of most of us today, hands down.

    Now excuse me, I need to go sign on and recieve 'benefits' from my society which actually emasculates me... then i need to go and buy some unhealthy food becuase the healthy stuff is too expensive. Then I need to buy some ciggies made with bleached tabacco which has been soaked in hundreds of deadly substances, including Asnic. I have to do this becuase I was infected by the advertising campaigns that my government allow to be shown on t.v for so long, and now i'm addicted. Then I need to get some beer for the weekend as it helps me feel like im living some kind of life. Then i need to buy some exspencive cloths made from polyester which has lots of static electricity and doesn't allow my skin to breath, it makes me smell nasty. then I need to pimp myself out and tell lies to fat cat arrogant employers so that they will hire me, I even have to pretend I want to do meanial tasks for them.
    Then I go home and watch Jeremy kyle becuase it makes it all ok when I see others with more serious problems than I have.
    Amen, and Amen.
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    Where's humanity heading?

    Pretty much in the same direction it has always been, or so it appears, but we are beginning to 'bump' into parameters that we should have expected, living in a finite habitat.

    As with any other species, we shall experience decline once certain limits have been met, only the nature and degree of that decline cannot be anticipated with any certainty.

    Certainly the developed nations have enjoyed the benefits as posted by Lynx_Fox, but they have largely been derived at the expense of the undeveloped nations and an economic model that relies on growth seems unlikely to be able to expand indefinitely given that all we 'create' relies upon that which already exists for it's source of raw materials.

    Everything except 'ideas' that is, and if anything, we have proven to be a species with endless ideas, just not all of them have achieved the expected results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mother/father View Post
    what could bring about such a change
    I like this question, but I hate the answer.

    What will change us now is what has always changed us; adversity.

    Great leaders are not born in stagnation, they are not made of idle clay. People with the ability to change the hearts and minds of a generation often grow out of a great agony that brings with it the realization of responsibility. It is the necessity of survival that progresses the human spirit. It's a hard thing that beauty is so often grown in blood.
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    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    I think thats a subjective opinion lynx... and probably almost impossible to be able to verify..
    Actually it's quite verifiable by looking at the data we already know about.

    I suggest you watch this presentation.

    Hans Rosling: Stats that reshape your worldview | Video on TED.comHumanity, as a whole, is much better off, even in most of the worse places now than a few generational ago.

    --
    But I see a lot of common errors in your write up.
    Give me a tribe in a forest with crystal clear unpolluted water and enough land with all necesary plants for food and materials anyday, thanks. I bet I'd still live to 60, which is old enough for me, and I bet i'd be healthier and stronger too.
    A combined image of the noble savage fallacy combined with a romantic image of nature in harmony. The reality is parasite and predator ridden waters that kill a quarter of your kids, lands subject to the ravages of climate variability that leave your tribe starving every few years, and so much rivalry with other tribes over resources that most men are killed violently before 35. The idealized past is mostly a myth that seldom existed for long if ever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mother/father View Post
    what could bring about such a change
    I like this question, but I hate the answer.

    What will change us now is what has always changed us; adversity.

    Great leaders are not born in stagnation, they are not made of idle clay. People with the ability to change the hearts and minds of a generation often grow out of a great agony that brings with it the realization of responsibility. It is the necessity of survival that progresses the human spirit. It's a hard thing that beauty is so often grown in blood.
    I have nothing to add to this truth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    Give me a tribe in a forest with crystal clear unpolluted water and enough land with all necesary plants for food and materials anyday, thanks. I bet I'd still live to 60, which is old enough for me, and I bet i'd be healthier and stronger too.
    Knowing my luck, I'd be killed by Naegleria fowleri within a month.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    I think thats a subjective opinion lynx... and probably almost impossible to be able to verify..
    Actually it's quite verifiable by looking at the data we already know about.

    I suggest you watch this presentation.

    Hans Rosling: Stats that reshape your worldview | Video on TED.comHumanity, as a whole, is much better off, even in most of the worse places now than a few generational ago.

    --
    But I see a lot of common errors in your write up.
    Give me a tribe in a forest with crystal clear unpolluted water and enough land with all necesary plants for food and materials anyday, thanks. I bet I'd still live to 60, which is old enough for me, and I bet i'd be healthier and stronger too.
    A combined image of the noble savage fallacy combined with a romantic image of nature in harmony. The reality is parasite and predator ridden waters that kill a quarter of your kids, lands subject to the ravages of climate variability that leave your tribe starving every few years, and so much rivalry with other tribes over resources that most men are killed violently before 35. The idealized past is mostly a myth that seldom existed for long if ever.
    I really do not see a difference in the dangers of living compared to our modern day living in modern cities. As a matter of fact I would choose a days healthy harmonious living than a year of present day western civilisation stress ridden existence. I think it would be quite interesting to experience a day of savage fallacy in harmony and then compare it to todays savage fallacy and the decadence in a society that is claiming the right to suicide.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by question for you View Post
    Give me a tribe in a forest with crystal clear unpolluted water and enough land with all necesary plants for food and materials anyday, thanks. I bet I'd still live to 60, which is old enough for me, and I bet i'd be healthier and stronger too.
    Knowing my luck, I'd be killed by Naegleria fowleri within a month.
    Or you could be killed in New York in five minutes going out to buy a hot dog by some gun tooting teenager trying to take revenge on the leaders of the nation.
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    As a matter of fact I would choose a days healthy harmonious living than a year of present day western civilisation stress ridden existence.


    What healthy harmonious living? That time and place pretty much didn't exist-and when it did not for long. And by comparison, few Westerners have to deal with the stress of being eaten just trying to fetch water, starving or being left to starve because they are too weak to keep up, their entire nation being completely destroyed by war, or being relegated to slavery because they were born the wrong skin color, or being struck down in a day by some completely unknown cause they attribute to superstitious. Even the US things are much much better--my paternal grandfather somehow survived the trench warfare or WWI, the Great depression, WWII, the Cuban missile crisis, loosing two kids before age 10, living in a small house with 14 other people, unable to get work because he was married to a native American Indian and on and on-- most Westerners have a comparatively easier life. And just to be clear, I'm not dismissing that there are some inner city situations and communities that are just as severe--but they few and are living like most Americans did just a few generations ago.

    Perhaps we need a new realistic Andy Griffith Show as an example of how things really were. Episodes, like Andy's having to lock up a drunken PTSD sickened war here for beating his wife for the sixth time and the major threatening to fire him because they served together. Or attending a child's funeral after "she fell off a ladder," closed coffin so the town didn't see the numerous bruising on the face and broken nose. Or one where a farmer shoots a neighbor boy after he finds him having sex with his prize winning sheep. Imagine Barney having to rush a girl to the hospital after crossing state lines and rescuing her from an abortion butcher. An episode where Andy drives a black family out because it was a sundown town and "n-word(s)" are not allowed after the sun goes down--or arresting a black man because he drank from the "white" water fountain. Or a "good" show, where half the town attends a wedding at the American Legion hall for the Major's son and his fifteen year old pregnant first cousin--yee ha! Or the desperation of a neighboring town (Juneberry?) wiped out when an earthen dam breaks and hundreds are left without homes, vehicles, insurance or any sort of government aid, or legal resource for the poor dam construction-- forced to survive on their own and start from nothing again. We could easily come up with a season of completely realistic stories how it was even a few generations ago in most American towns--not pretty. Seek out an old person and try to get them to tell you how things really were--I think you'll be amazed if you find an honest one willing to dredge up old memories.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; September 13th, 2012 at 04:24 PM.
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    Has the total amount of human suffering gone down as a consequence of our industrialisation? As a proportion, more people live in prosperity but the population has exploded too. Maybe the number of people who endure suffering hasn't gone down at all. And if the means of increasing prosperity is unsustainable - the big boom before there is a big collapse - it will be a poisoned chalace version of being better off. Yum. Tastes nice. So kind and generous to let me have a mouthful. But it's got one nasty kick.
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    The key is the % suffering has gone down dramatically in time most places. We still have a long ways to go, but things really really are much much better than any time in the past. Baring some sort of natural global calamity or a man-made one like a major nuke tipped lawn dart game--there's lots of reason to have cautious optimism about the future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    As a matter of fact I would choose a days healthy harmonious living than a year of present day western civilisation stress ridden existence.


    What healthy harmonious living? That time and place pretty much didn't exist-and when it did not for long. And by comparison, few Westerners have to deal with the stress of being eaten just trying to fetch water, starving or being left to starve because they are too weak to keep up, their entire nation being completely destroyed by war, or being relegated to slavery because they were born the wrong skin color, or being struck down in a day by some completely unknown cause they attribute to superstitious. Even the US things are much much better--my paternal grandfather somehow survived the trench warfare or WWI, the Great depression, WWII, the Cuban missile crisis, loosing two kids before age 10, living in a small house with 14 other people, unable to get work because he was married to a native American Indian and on and on-- most Westerners have a comparatively easier life. And just to be clear, I'm not dismissing that there are some inner city situations and communities that are just as severe--but they few and are living like most Americans did just a few generations ago.

    Perhaps we need a new realistic Andy Griffith Show as an example of how things really were. Episodes, like Andy's having to lock up a drunken PTSD sickened war here for beating his wife for the sixth time and the major threatening to fire him because they served together. Or attending a child's funeral after "she fell off a ladder," closed coffin so the town didn't see the numerous bruising on the face and broken nose. Or one where a farmer shoots a neighbor boy after he finds him having sex with his prize winning sheep. Imagine Barney having to rush a girl to the hospital after crossing state lines and rescuing her from an abortion butcher. An episode where Andy drives a black family out because it was a sundown town and "n-word(s)" are not allowed after the sun goes down--or arresting a black man because he drank from the "white" water fountain. Or a "good" show, where half the town attends a wedding at the American Legion hall for the Major's son and his fifteen year old pregnant first cousin--yee ha! Or the desperation of a neighboring town (Juneberry?) wiped out when an earthen dam breaks and hundreds are left without homes, vehicles, insurance or any sort of government aid, or legal resource for the poor dam construction-- forced to survive on their own and start from nothing again. We could easily come up with a season of completely realistic stories how it was even a few generations ago in most American towns--not pretty. Seek out an old person and try to get them to tell you how things really were--I think you'll be amazed if you find an honest one willing to dredge up old memories.
    My goodness LF that was graphic and very realistic although I noticed you gave me a lot from the conditions in the US. I am not so surre I think we are better off now and I think we are heading in the wrong direction. Our main prise assets are our people on the planet. Where we want to go is in the direction of the people, but first we have to define what is wrong with us because if we want change we have to identify what we want to change. I have no doubt that some parts in America would be telling us that things are not OK and they would like to go back to old times. I think the top priority is for people to live harmoniously on the planet. First why are we killing each other, that alone counts for half of our miseries. I don't care how much you say we have advanced we cannot claim any progress untill we stop this madness. The second thing is we muct recognise the diversity of cultures on the planet. The planet did not intend to make us for purpose of extermination, if we think so then we are certainlly on the right track to self extermination.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    The key is the % suffering has gone down dramatically in time most places. We still have a long ways to go, but things really really are much much better than any time in the past. Baring some sort of natural global calamity or a man-made one like a major nuke tipped lawn dart game--there's lots of reason to have cautious optimism about the future.
    I can only say for some places but not altogether on planet earth. I don't think earth will die just yet but it can if we do not look after it and ourselves, and I don't mean just America the whole globe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mother/father View Post
    I can only say for some places but not altogether on planet earth. I don't think earth will die just yet but it can if we do not look after it and ourselves, and I don't mean just America the whole globe.
    I chuckle at the notion of the "end of the world". What an arrogant creature we are to think that the world ends after us.
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    The planet will go on but it's carrying capacity can be much reduced. And that looks highly likely verging on certain with current ways of doing things - a lack of regard for long term consequences - continuing. If my remark about total vs proportion of humans experiencing suffering was a bit flippant the bit about boom and crash was not. If - given that we have a pretty sound knowledge of the nature of our world, it's limits and the consequences of our action - we fail to successfully incorporate that into our individual and collective decision making there won't be any soft landing when that crash happens. New conflicts will arise and existing ones will be exacerbated and the collective capacity of humans to make things worse will mean problems like climate change will not simply be a matter of loss of reliability of agriculture, collapse of harvestable natural resources, coastal inundation etc. It will be cause for conflicts.

    That we haven't seen global conflict on the scale of WW1 and WW2 - just as we haven't seen a global famine - does not mean we are more grown up and sensible now and such things are unthinkable or impossible. In the face of a collapse or even a significant downspike in food production I suspect we are capable of engaging in conflict with as much ferocity as ever seen before. Nuclear war amongst established 'civilised' nations not an issue any more? I don't believe it; the veneer of civilisation is still thin.

    We have the knowhow to keep on reducing both proportion and total living with poverty but lack the good sense, organisational abilities and moral fibre to use it. Not entirely lacking but sufficiently lacking that incorporation of that knowhow into decisions is itself cause for significant conflict, preventing anything but halfbaked and compromised efforts to deal with accelerating global problems. I'm not optimistic. We are capable of doing better, of facing what the future brings with intelligence and foresight. We collectively choose not to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mother/father View Post
    I can only say for some places but not altogether on planet earth. I don't think earth will die just yet but it can if we do not look after it and ourselves, and I don't mean just America the whole globe.
    I chuckle at the notion of the "end of the world". What an arrogant creature we are to think that the world ends after us.
    While I agree that the world is unlikely to end, I would suggest that we are an arrogant creature to think that we are in any manner immune from the consequences of our actions merely because we have opposable thumbs and have acquired language and mathematical skills.

    A pity, really, that we are so clever in some manners yet seemingly condemned to repeat the error of our ways in our treatment of each other and the habitat that supports us. I am optimistic that our species, overall, has the capacity to survive though it may be at the expense of a great many others as suggested in post #23.
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  26. #25  
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    Thanks everyone for your responses and discussion.

    I was asking the question in a certain sense, but it looks like you guys have really expanded the scope of my thread.

    So in my original sense, I was rather asking where is the first world heading in regards to an acceptable condition (i.e. everyday behavior, common ethics, economic and governmental stability, trends of thought, world conflict, etc.).
    Last edited by epidecus; September 15th, 2012 at 10:02 PM. Reason: Bad examples...
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    In the early 22nd century human’s have the space elevator

    The elevator brings supplies to Earth’s orbit with ease, this creates a situation in which access to space is easy among most the populace; and more are on the way.

    Human’s begin building space stations and creating outpost all over the Sol solar system. First the Lunar outpost, a main station on the moon is completely self sufficient; and hundreds of human’s live on the lunar outpost.

    The building of the first space faring freighter. The freighter brings supplies all across the Sol solar system. A fleet of asteroid mining ships are built and mine the asteroid fields for what were once rare minerals. Human’s begin building bigger and better cities back on Earth; and the Lunar outpost is growing. A greater half of the human population is vegetarian; and religion realised unnecessary to the greater half; and we comfortably realise that these souls we were oh-so fond of never existed to begin with.

    By this time it is easier for progress to move forward, Scientist have extended life using many methods, cured disease and have made living easy. Humans have become a intelligent, intellectually enlightened, arrogant and emotionally sensitive/selfish race; and few morals are realised with humanities newfound desire for logic; and genderism has been abolished.

    Humans begin to mass colonize Mars, a city is built and a terraforming process is active.
    The discovery of Life on Jupiter’s moon Europa, simple alien fish life are found. Human’s are spread thin across the Sol solar system, space freighters are valuable. Spaceship technology advances, we are able to achieve tight beam communication across vast distances.Human’s become spread so thin that the structure of civilization is cut into independent establishments; and the homeworld is a valuable paradise, wars are fought for survival.

    Human’s begin to travel to the stars, The first starship is built, it is set to travel to the alpha centauri solar system and to establish colonization. 6 years to and 6 years back, the ship will be at a constant loop bringing us back and forth, no life is discovered at the Alpha centauri solar system, though colonization was easy with the advanced starship. Other starships build along side the first have also colonized 2 other systems; and the total population of human’s is 10.7 billion and growing slowly.
    Last edited by Japith; September 15th, 2012 at 09:26 PM.
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    I hope it can be that way.. I would like us to be better, bit it seems we can never fully live without our past. It all of course is speculation but I thought about it rationally.
    With bravery and recognition that we are harbingers of our destiny and with a paragon of virtue.
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    It's a rare thread that sticks strictly to the initial subject.

    Japith, I remain dubious about the viability of space colonies that are not a part of healthy economy centered on Earth ; self sufficiency may not be impossible but it looks very, very difficult and I don't see anything inevitable about it. A long period of dependence may be followed by self perpetuating colonies in space but the scale of investment needed to get a viable space economy up and running requires clear long term benefits to investors here on Earth. I was keen to discuss some of the benefits and obstacles here in General Discussion but it was a thread that never really reached critical mass.
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    usa seems like a dumbed down third world country-im voting republican
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    Holmes, it doesn't worry you that the US Republicans can't bring themselves to acknowledge the reality and seriousness of the global climate problem and appear to willfully be choosing the promotion of convenient illusions about the reality of how our world's climate works (and harmlessness/inignificance of fossil fuel burning) rather than face the problem with eyes open and head on? The prospect of the most powerful and influential nation on Earth willfully working to prevent global agreements and timely action is deeply dismaying. I really doubt the conservatives here in Australia would have dared go down that same climate denial path without US conservatives working to legitimise that position and providing an example to emulate.
    Last edited by Ken Fabos; September 16th, 2012 at 06:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by epidecus View Post
    I feel like my faith in humanity and the modern world dies a little every day.

    ...

    Is the world as a whole really going to shit? If so, what should we do about it?
    Hi.

    The world was doomed from the start. So it doesent matter if we do good or not.

    Scenario A) Utopia where all people live happily and all goes well culturally, socially, technologically and so on.
    Scenario B) Dystopia where everything - as you say "Goes to shit"

    These scenarios both have one thing in common. They will die and be forgotten forever. The sun WILL run out of energy. Finding habitable planets is not a solution either, because the destructive forces of the universe be it super novas, meteors or the pull of gravity will erase our whole existance nomatter what. Even with the most insane technology we are to small and insignificant to ensure survival on a big, stable and lasting scale.

    In the end it doesent matter. As Ive said in another thread: "On a grand cosmic timescale our whole existance will be a flash gone in a moment, forgotten forever"

    It is therefore utterly meaningless to let such thoughts deprive you of your current happiness. We can nuke ourselves to shreds or live in a utopia. Both roads leads to being devoured by the cold vast universe. So enjoy your icecream, and if someone shoots you - be glad for the liberation from this cruel existance. Cause no God could have created something as imperfect and horrible as our current prison. Unless ofcourse that god is cruel and evil.
    A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it. - David Stevens
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    If there is a god and an afterlife then that is the only hope we can squeeze out of this predicament. That or forgetting all about unecesary progresses towards destruction and instead living the utopia we were always meant to live.

    Thanks for the optimistic message though.
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  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes View Post
    usa seems like a dumbed down third world country-im voting republican
    If you think the latter part of your comment is going to make that much difference, you're proving correct the former part of your comment.
    question for you likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    As bad as things seem, for most modern peoples, things are far better now than at any time in our past--even our recent past. We're altogether healthier, live longer, suffer less crime, are exposed to fewer wars, better protected from intellectual or property theft, and less prone to severe shortages of basic things such food and water.
    Posting from Lotusland, agreed. The danger IMO is getting too much of what we wish for. That's how dystopia begins isn't it?
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    Gosh, I feel like I am a alien from another planet. I swear I do not see things as you all see them, I don't respond to things the same way you do. I dream of a world in paradise, I know what needs to be done. We are not immortal, there is no afterlife, no spiritual reality or plane or whatever the F*** you people decide to conjure up, and souls do not exist; and if a all powerful being existed and was this thing we call god, 'Do you want to know what it does for us?' It does this, it is the present and does whats in the now. That is what your god is doing for humanity, so if he is out there then he simply expects us to not acknowledge him. I don't need to care, I am this machine made from organic matter built from star dust and physics. I am simply a animal; and a creature that is merely existing and operating by itself, and completely alone and self dependent. If only you people could actually see your self, if you can see what you are and the being that is you, you may finally understand everything. Believe me when I say this, I feel like I understand the world. I know why its happening, and I see that we are all very stupid, we can be considered a lower life form to a interstellar space fairing civilization, we are animals we have not passed this line where the other side is a higher being. We are a intelligent animal who has conquered the planet that is what I see and understand, there exist a better world and if we can all agree on something we can make that world exist for all of us to exist in.

    Become a very serious person, become a very logical and rathional person, This Earth doen't need another child who seeks for a mate, strugles with emotional thinking, depends on on the education of others, and who plays, has family and freinds to enjoy. Humanity doesn't need people like that anymore. Were at war with ideas and our ultimate conquest is our future.

    This it is available for us. If you all can only focus and understand yourselves you may have it.


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  37. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japith View Post
    We are a intelligent animal who has conquered the planet that is what I see and understand
    I never liked this phrase. Was our planet ever putting up a fight?

    Did we conquer the planet, or are we just ignorantly bullying it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Japith View Post
    We are a intelligent animal who has conquered the planet that is what I see and understand
    I never liked this phrase. Was our planet ever putting up a fight?

    Did we conquer the planet, or are we just ignorantly bullying it?
    Earth cannot be bullied, it is not a person..
    With bravery and recognition that we are harbingers of our destiny and with a paragon of virtue.
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  39. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japith View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Japith View Post
    We are a intelligent animal who has conquered the planet that is what I see and understand
    I never liked this phrase. Was our planet ever putting up a fight?

    Did we conquer the planet, or are we just ignorantly bullying it?
    Earth cannot be bullied, it is not a person..
    Semantics. My sentiment remains the same.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Japith, far from having conquered the planet, we remain utterly dependent upon it. In the absence of our inheritance of a biologically diverse and resource rich world we would struggle simply to sustain ourselves. Most food production depends on soils created by geological and biological processes, the air we breath and the water we drink too of course; human ingenuity may have enhanced agricultural output but the amount of self-congratulation is far in excess of the achievement - which has yet to be shown to be sustainable. If you believe the 'healthy' competition of global warfare is good for us, there's a high likelihood the overshoot of population in excess of global carrying capacity will incite it in the near future. How this will possibly lead to a glorious future of expansion into our solar system and beyond is something that eludes me.
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