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Thread: Boycott the petroleum industry?

  1. #1 Boycott the petroleum industry? 
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    A few days ago a popular network radio talk show host asserted that the way for the public to bring the price of gasoline down was to drive less and to drive slower - that if a large majority of people actually did that, it would require the petroleum industry to lower its ascending gasoline prices.

    Whatever possible call-ins of response may have been received, they were not aired; hence, it's present 'airing' on this post and in this forum.

    It seems this is one boycott (against an industry) that isn't feasible.

    Even if the 'majority of people' minimized their driving and drove slower, actually having a significant impact on the oil monopoly - doesn't it seem more reasonable to surmise that the prices would go further up, rather than being lowered - to compensate for the losses of the failed 'boycott' on gasoline and oil products.

    Although there is a lot of unnecessary luxury use of gasoline for recreational driving, the bottom line is that America does not run on Dunkin' Doughnuts, it runs on gasoline.

    Recent history features the (mock; scandalized) 'gasoline crisis' (that didn't exist) imposed on the public from coast to coast in the mid 70's...

    Odd and even numbered license plates getting gassed on alternating days. People wearisomely and fractiously waiting in long lines for price inflated gasoline, line cutting, bribery, bullying, fist fights and no small number of shootings and other homicidal behavior.
    Because America runs, walks and crawls on gasoline - recreationally or not, would not the entire economy collapse, promptly, if people couldn't drive to and from their places of employment?

    Is this not prime example of fundamental control of the public and its complete dependency on the world's most powerful and wealthy industry.

    So, the uncontested talk show host's recommendation is being aired on this post, what in fact are the readers thoughts on this? Is the talk show host right, or not? Who's really in charge here?

    Would such a publicly imposed embargo or boycott work, today, to force the petroleum industry to lower it's rising gasoline prices?

    If so, how and why would it work, and, If not, why not?


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  3. #2  
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    Point 1:I am at a loss to see how this can be described as a boycott. Using less gasoline is not the same thing as using no gasoline. Even if the individual driver abandons his car and cycles to work, his foodstuffs and other consumer goods are still delivered via gasoline.
    Therefore, I shall abandon the use of the word boycott and assume the intention is to reduce personal gasoline consumption as far as possible.
    Point 2:Of course such an action would reduce gasoline prices. There is no doubt about this whatsoever.
    Point 3:Gasoline prices are dependent upon oil prices. Oil prices are dependent upon the simple rules of supply and demand. The present high prices are because of the increasing demand for petroleum products, coupled with increasing difficulty in delivering adequate supply. (This is overlain with a perception that for political reasons things may get worse.)


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    Dear Ophiolite:
    Thank you for your contribution to this thread.
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  5. #4 We could just loose our fascination with cartoonishly large. 
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    We could just loose our fascination with cartoonishly large vehicles.

    The truth is that the US gets oil cheaper than other nations because of our special relationship with Saudi Arabia. I do not know what amount of this reaches the end consumer but I believe China will buy up every ounce we conserve with no reduction in price.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Bachelors Degree The P-manator's Avatar
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    Or we could actually boycott the petroleom industry: not use gas at all. That would raise gas prices to Mars and people will finally start looking for alternatives. *Cough* fuel cells *cough*.
    Pierre

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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by The P-manator
    Or we could actually boycott the petroleom industry: not use gas at all. That would raise gas prices to Mars and people will finally start looking for alternatives. *Cough* fuel cells *cough*.

    Bicycles is the answer, Huge multi-storey Bicycles, with lights, lots of lights an psirens, with 10 rows of seats side by side - 3,400 seater jobs.
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  8. #7 Alternatives yes. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by The P-manator
    Or we could actually boycott the petroleom industry: not use gas at all. That would raise gas prices to Mars and people will finally start looking for alternatives. *Cough* fuel cells *cough*.
    The problem is the extemely powerful oil interests hide the real cost of oil and destroy any real threat from alternatives. Lets face it big oil controls the United States. They will crush any real initiative that threatens the source of their wealth and power.
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  9. #8 Re: We could just loose our fascination with cartoonishly la 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebiu
    The truth is that the US gets oil cheaper than other nations because of our special relationship with Saudi Arabia. .
    This is totally and unambiguously false.
    1. The oil market is a WORLD market. I assume you don't understand the implications of this.
    2. The foreign oil imported into the US comes mainly from Mexico and Canada. Saudi Arabia accounts for only a small percentage (4%, I believe) of imported oil.
    3. The US is the second larges producer of crude in the world. Oil that comes "cheap" results from our own supply.
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  10. #9  
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    not use gas at all. That would raise gas prices
    False.
    Simple supply/demand macroeconomics.

    Lower demand, lower prices. It's very clear
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  11. #10 Re: We could just loose our fascination with cartoonishly la 
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveatLector
    Quote Originally Posted by Rebiu
    The truth is that the US gets oil cheaper than other nations because of our special relationship with Saudi Arabia. .
    This is totally and unambiguously false.
    1. The oil market is a WORLD market. I assume you don't understand the implications of this.
    Well you may think the basics of a free market are simple. However reality is complex.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaveatLector
    2. The foreign oil imported into the US comes mainly from Mexico and Canada. Saudi Arabia accounts for only a small percentage (4%, I believe) of imported oil.
    Perhaps a Source on these figures is in order as the ones I found said %19.http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/brochure/gas04/gasoline.htm That is approximately one fifth and extremely significant. Especially because it is the portion of the oil market that local supply cannot meet.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaveatLector
    3. The US is the second larges producer of crude in the world. Oil that comes "cheap" results from our own supply.
    Bit of an oversimplification. Different barrels of oil in different locations on the planet are not worth the same to everyone on the planet. Oil that is closer will be cheaper. Oil that is easier to extract will be cheaper. If a region has stability its oil will be cheaper. Saudi Arabia has much influence over the generalized market prices because they have most of the reserve capacity in the world.
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  12. #11  
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    I still say a nuclear powered steam engine is the answer,
    Steam is renewable and cheap, all leakages can be recycled. I just cant understand why nobody takes me seriously.
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  13. #12  
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    Really though i am not really worried about the high price of gasoline at the moment because though 3 weeks ago it was nearing 3 dollars a gallon right at this very moment it is only 2.16 a gallon minus 3 cents because wal-mart can afford it. Though really fuel cells arent the answer the real answer is everyone drive 80 mpg smart cars.
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  14. #13  
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    Different barrels of oil in different locations on the planet are not worth the same to everyone on the planet. Oil that is closer will be cheaper. Oil that is easier to extract will be cheaper. If a region has stability its oil will be cheaper. Saudi Arabia has much influence over the generalized market prices because they have most of the reserve capacity in the world.
    Saudi Arabia is part of OPEC. OPEC sets prices. Indeed, it is simple.

    Please provide documentaion where we can see the "special relationship" between the US and SA that gives us cheaper oil.
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  15. #14  
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    Perhaps a Source on these figures is in order as the ones I found said %19.http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/brochure/gas04/gasoline.htm That is approximately one fifth and extremely significant. Especially because it is the portion of the oil market that local supply cannot meet.

    It says 19% from the Persian Gulf, not Saudi Arabia. From what I can calculate, crude impoorts from SA are around 1.427 mbpd and total imports per day is 20 mb. That's about 7%.

    [[/img]http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...nt/import.html
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    Cogito, ergo doleo.

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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveatLector
    Perhaps a Source on these figures is in order as the ones I found said %19.http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/brochure/gas04/gasoline.htm That is approximately one fifth and extremely significant. Especially because it is the portion of the oil market that local supply cannot meet.

    It says 19% from the Persian Gulf, not Saudi Arabia. From what I can calculate, crude impoorts from SA are around 1.427 mbpd and total imports per day is 20 mb. That's about 7%.

    [[/img]http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...nt/import.html
    You seem to be learning as your numbers edge up to reality. How do you explain this disparity with the the EIA estimates for 2004?

    You have taken a snapshot of one or two months do you think this is an acurate representation of the Saudi contribution over the years?
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  17. #16 Documentation. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveatLector
    Different barrels of oil in different locations on the planet are not worth the same to everyone on the planet. Oil that is closer will be cheaper. Oil that is easier to extract will be cheaper. If a region has stability its oil will be cheaper. Saudi Arabia has much influence over the generalized market prices because they have most of the reserve capacity in the world.
    Saudi Arabia is part of OPEC. OPEC sets prices. Indeed, it is simple.

    Please provide documentaion where we can see the "special relationship" between the US and SA that gives us cheaper oil.
    Here is a quote from James Placke "Saudi Arabia has been at the top for several decades, and that's by design. To the Saudi establishment, that position was an important element in maintaining what was known as the 'strategic relationship,'" Placke said. He said the Saudis used subtle methods that are no longer in place to lower the prices of their oil for U.S. customers and increase their market share in the United States.http://www.energybulletin.net/2348.html
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveatLector
    Saudi Arabia is part of OPEC. OPEC sets prices. Indeed, it is simple.
    Saudi Arabia produces low sulfure sweet crude that is easier to refine then most. Part of the oil shortage has come form the lack of high sulfur refining capacity. Not so simple after all.
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  19. #18  
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    How do you explain this disparity with the the EIA estimates for 2004?
    Estimates for exactly what? Crude imports? Please be more specific.

    You have taken a snapshot of one or two months do you think this is an acurate representation of the Saudi contribution over the years?
    The information posted pertained to the current conversation: Current levels of Saudi oil imports and its relative weight on the US oil market.

    Here is a quote from James Placke "Saudi Arabia has been at the top for several decades, and that's by design.
    You forgot to add: ""Saudi sales to the U.S. have fallen off the table," James Placke, a senior associate at Cambridge Energy Research Associates and former U.S. deputy assistant secretary of state for Near Eastern Affairs, said Thursday."

    See, I can chop up articles and make them imply whatever I choose too.


    strategic relationship,'
    Still no definition of this "relationship." Exactly how did it work? What were the exact details?

    How did these "subtle methods" that are no longer in place affect the US foreign oil supply from the Saudis? Very ambiguous indeed.

    Saudi Arabia produces low sulfure sweet crude that is easier to refine then most. Part of the oil shortage has come form the lack of high sulfur refining capacity.
    Interconnecting ideas by proximity is no way to win an argument. Refining capabilites in the US have long been at a disadvantage. Federal red tape, provide part in parcel by the ineffective and presumptious environmental lobby, have blocked any attempt to scale up or build new refineries capable of refining heavy sour crude (or even Fischer-Tropsch technologies) efficiently.

    Are you suggesting that OPEC doesn't set prices? How so?
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    Cogito, ergo doleo.

    There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.
    Oscar Levant
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  20. #19  
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    Resistence is futile
    Dont resist then and live on. We humans can keep burning fossile fuels. Since i like it bieng hotter
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  21. #20 Your tune is changing. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveatLector
    How did these "subtle methods" that are no longer in place affect the US foreign oil supply from the Saudis? Very ambiguous indeed.
    Consider this;
    "Are you suggesting that OPEC doesn't set prices? How so?[/quote]Yes, something is wrong with that figure. Compare it with the one given by the Defense Logistics Agency spokeswoman Lana Hampton. Accroding to an American Forces Information Service News Article she said the U.S. military is using between 10 million and 11 million barrels of fuel each month to sustain operations in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere. This makes 330 000 - 360 000 barrel per day.

    This is more than double the amount of oil used in the Gulf war!

    According to a Rand Corporation report “1.88 billion gallons of fuel were consumed within the U.S. Central Command’s area of responsibility during Operations Desert Shild and Desert Storm (ODS/S), between August 10, 1990 and May 31, 1991.” [5]. This makes 44.8 million barrels, or 150 000 barrels a day. Note that ODS/S lasted 295 days.

    Moreover, “during ODS/S Saudi Arabia and the UAE supplied fuels without charge (1.5 billion gallons), whereas Bahrain, Egypt, Oman and Qatar charged for the fuels,” adds the Rand report.

    Did Saudi Arabia and the UAE report that fuel as export? Did the US report it as import? Was it counted as Saudi or UAE domestic consumption? Or Was it counted as the US consumption?

    I am afraid the answers to those three questions are No, No, No and No!

    But that amount was surely counted in production."http://www.energybulletin.net/13199.html

    Does it explain this;
    "So when the Saudis a few weeks ago suddenly reversed field and announced a production cut, some analysts scratched their heads and wondered if, at long last, Saudi Arabian oil production has peaked. If it has, the effect is potentially huge on oil markets and the price of gasoline at the pump."http://www.energybulletin.net/18474.html

    Does it also explain the supposed reduction in Saudi supplied oil to the US and reveal one of the methods used to provide the US with cheaper oil as well as hide the exchange? If a person lives in a simple world then I guess this is to complicated for them to follow.
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  22. #21  
    Forum Bachelors Degree The P-manator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjacob
    Though really fuel cells arent the answer the real answer is everyone drive 80 mpg smart cars.
    Excuse me but your solution still pollutes Earth. I disagree. Fuel cells = water. What is the problem?
    Pierre

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  23. #22  
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    Rebiu, I will be out of the country until after next week, most likely without Internet access. I'm in no current condition to really care enough to reply with any depth at the present time. Please don't accept my silence as withdrawl from the conversation. I will certainly have much to say when I return.
    Thank you for your cooperation.

    To you and all the others, I bid adieu as I cross the pond sometime tomorrow.
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  24. #23  
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    I think we should use more petrol, the sooner it all runs out the better!
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  25. #24  
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    Yes! And when it runs out, they'll go looking for more, and we'll be biking and driving fuel cell cars and singing latidatida and laughing at them!!!
    Pierre

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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by The P-manator
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjacob
    Though really fuel cells arent the answer the real answer is everyone drive 80 mpg smart cars.
    Excuse me but your solution still pollutes Earth. I disagree. Fuel cells = water. What is the problem?
    I kinda agree but what are fuel cells made out of.
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjacob
    Quote Originally Posted by The P-manator
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjacob
    Though really fuel cells arent the answer the real answer is everyone drive 80 mpg smart cars.
    Excuse me but your solution still pollutes Earth. I disagree. Fuel cells = water. What is the problem?
    I kinda agree but what are fuel cells made out of.
    Just google fuel cells and all will be revieled or reviled
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