Converting a proton to an equal volume of electrons -- effects?

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January 11th, 2012, 04:07 AM
Green Xenon

Converting a proton to an equal volume of electrons -- effects?

Hi:

The "greasy proton to electron converter" is a sci-fi force that affects the lipid molecules without directly or perceptibly affecting other entities [note, the words "directly" and "perceptibly"]. This force travels in a manner similar to that of an 60 Hz alternating electric current -- except it has an affinity for lipids.

As this force passes through lipids, it causes the protons present in the lipid molecules of its path to be instantly converted to an equal size of electrons -- because a proton is bigger than an electron, this means that each single proton will obviously convert to more than one electron.

If this force were to exist, what medical effects would it have? What injuries -- if any -- could result from it?

What would be the environmental affects of this force? Would it cause oil spills in the ocean to mix with the water?

What perceptible effects would this force have on a stick of unsalted butter?

Thanks a bunch,

GX
January 11th, 2012, 04:13 AM
Strange

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Xenon

because a proton is bigger than an electron, this means that each single proton will obviously convert to more than one electron.

You seem to be concerned with conservation of mass there while ignoring conservation of charge (and several other conserved quantities). You might as well suggest that each proton will be turned into a tiny unicorn.
January 11th, 2012, 07:49 AM
Green Xenon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange

You seem to be concerned with conservation of mass

Volume, not mass.
January 11th, 2012, 09:57 AM
drowsy turtle

The volume of an electron is uncertain; it's charge and invariant mass are constant. Which do you think would be more important to conserve?
January 11th, 2012, 12:24 PM
Strange

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Xenon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange

You seem to be concerned with conservation of mass

Volume, not mass.

Electrons are usually treated as point particles with no volume.

I don't know why you think volume would be relevant anyway. Boil water and you get a larger volume of steam; the mass stays the same though.
January 11th, 2012, 05:08 PM
drowsy turtle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange

Boil water and you get a larger volume of steam; the mass stays the same though.

Strictly speaking the water gains a tiny amount of mass... Oops, I'm being disruptive :s
January 11th, 2012, 08:14 PM
Green Xenon

Quote:

Originally Posted by drowsy turtle

The volume of an electron is uncertain; it's charge and invariant mass are constant. Which do you think would be more important to conserve?

Mass, in this case.
January 11th, 2012, 08:15 PM
Green Xenon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange

Electrons are usually treated as point particles with no volume.

Do protons have volume?
January 11th, 2012, 08:22 PM
Green Xenon

There seem to be so many cases of proton-toxicity and electron-deficiency -- leading to disasters. I'm just wondering what the effects of electron-poisoning and proton-inadequacy would be -- particularly in greasy substances, such as butter.

It's my way of hoplelessly trying to solve a serious problem by creating an equally-severe but opposite problem.
January 12th, 2012, 12:58 AM
MeteorWayne

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Xenon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange

Electrons are usually treated as point particles with no volume.

Do protons have volume?

Yes, proton diameter is (latest measurement) 0.8768 femtometers.
January 12th, 2012, 01:13 AM
Green Xenon

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeteorWayne

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Xenon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange

Electrons are usually treated as point particles with no volume.

Do protons have volume?

Yes, proton diameter is (latest measurement) 0.8768 femtometers.

That means in the scenario I'm describing, the proton would be replaced by a collection of electrons that initially take up 0.8768 femtometers of space. Eventually this collection will rip itself apart because like-charges repel each other.
January 12th, 2012, 09:27 AM
Markus Hanke

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Xenon

Hi:

The "greasy proton to electron converter" is a sci-fi force that affects the lipid molecules without directly or perceptibly affecting other entities [note, the words "directly" and "perceptibly"]. This force travels in a manner similar to that of an 60 Hz alternating electric current -- except it has an affinity for lipids.

As this force passes through lipids, it causes the protons present in the lipid molecules of its path to be instantly converted to an equal size of electrons -- because a proton is bigger than an electron, this means that each single proton will obviously convert to more than one electron.

If this force were to exist, what medical effects would it have? What injuries -- if any -- could result from it?

What would be the environmental affects of this force? Would it cause oil spills in the ocean to mix with the water?

What perceptible effects would this force have on a stick of unsalted butter?

Thanks a bunch,

GX

First of all, this entire concept is Sci-Fi, nothing more. It is not possible to replace protons with electrons in matter.
If it were possible, than the atomic structure of the object in question would be destroyed; the matter would be converted into a heap of free electrons and neutrons.
Macroscopically this would most likely result in a phenomenal flash of light, followed by the death of all observers due to beta irradiation. Not pleasant.
January 12th, 2012, 10:05 AM
kojax

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Xenon

There seem to be so many cases of proton-toxicity and electron-deficiency -- leading to disasters. I'm just wondering what the effects of electron-poisoning and proton-inadequacy would be -- particularly in greasy substances, such as butter.

It's my way of hoplelessly trying to solve a serious problem by creating an equally-severe but opposite problem.

If you change the number of protons in any atom, that atom becomes a different element.

And I agree with the other posters - this is purely sci-fi (emphasis on the "fi")
January 12th, 2012, 11:50 AM
Janus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Hanke

[

First of all, this entire concept is Sci-Fi, nothing more. It is not possible to replace protons with electrons in matter.
If it were possible, than the atomic structure of the object in question would be destroyed; the matter would be converted into a heap of free electrons and neutrons.
Macroscopically this would most likely result in a phenomenal flash of light, followed by the death of all observers due to beta irradiation. Not pleasant.

Then, in time the free neutrons would decay into protons and electrons, and eventually settle down into hydrogen atoms.

But as you say, this is all fiction (or maybe more aptly, fantasy).
January 15th, 2012, 05:45 PM
drowsy turtle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Xenon

That means in the scenario I'm describing, the proton would be replaced by a collection of electrons that initially take up 0.8768 femtometers of space. Eventually this collection will rip itself apart because like-charges repel each other.

Yes, except this is fundamentally impossible. As previously explained, volume is irrelevant, while mass and charge must be conserved.

A proton could decay into a number of different systems of mesons, leptons/antileptons and neutrinos/antineutrinos, but this has never been observed.