Thread: The Information Age

I believe the Internet will help wean people off religion. The insane interpretations half the world’s population hold for historical characters such as Jesus and Mohammed can’t last. There is just too much freely available information out there now for people not to grow up/man up/wake up to the facts of life. To understand what religion is, in the context of human psychology, animal psychology. To realize the simple anthropomorphic origins of God.

I disagree. I think that the information age will not shake most of those who are solid theists. There is pro-God propaganda out there just as much as there is anti-God. Also, lenient theists will hang onto faith by molding it to established science.

Edit: we probably will see a rise of atheists though, just not as dramatic as you said.

Thank You for your clear and consise points.
However with regard to your second point, I believe the lenient theists will be forced to lean so far away from believing in magic, they essentially become fully blown lapsed theists. They will retain their appreciation for their prophets, but from a purely scientific perspective. That is they will appreciate them as great men (and women).

Thats true, although how much they lapse really depends on how much science can prove.

Also, sorry for editing after your comment.

Personally I think that the internet will only end up encouraging more religious fanaticism. It will not wean people off religion in the slightest, for every scientific website/group online there are like four religious ones. If any of you have facebook page look at the groups and pages on there. The religious ones outnumber the anti-religious and scientific ones ten to 1 in number and in members. I fear that logical atheists will always be largely outnumbered.

The idea of a big friendly God is nice.
Jesus was once an imaginary friend of mine.
The influence of other people resonates through most decisions I make.
Nothing could be as heartbreaking as the loss of God. It’s probably an impossible relationship to move on from. Ever.
I sometimes think most Atheists don’t really know what they’re talking about. Belief is a prerequisite to existing, God is in everything after all. The big problem is the definition of God. It is in no way definitive. Probably entirely subjective for every person
and even further varied from day to day. That’s God. A personal intimate interface with reality.

Christian theology and Christian rules are fat with nonsense. I’ve never met a Christian who actually follows or agrees with all aspects of their faith. The religion is advancing. Throughout the centuries it has adapted to new undeniable scientific facts. What’s required is Popularizes of science for the idiot generation and this is where I think the internet will Triumph.

Although people might call themselves Christian, they aren’t really. Many don’t pray, don’t go to services, don’t even believe in the miracles. They believe in Jesus maybe. They believe in people. Christians like Atheists, don’t know what they are and I’d guess it’s the same for a lot of young Muslims etc. too.

Religions are dying. People are waking up to scientific explanations. Although they may still call themselves Christian Muslim etc.

Originally Posted by pedronaut

The idea of a big friendly God is nice.
Jesus was once an imaginary friend of mine.
The influence of other people resonates through most decisions I make.
Nothing could be as heartbreaking as the loss of God. It’s probably an impossible relationship to move on from. Ever.
I sometimes think most Atheists don’t really know what they’re talking about. Belief is a prerequisite to existing, God is in everything after all. The big problem is the definition of God. It is in no way definitive. Probably entirely subjective for every person
and even further varied from day to day. That’s God. A personal intimate interface with reality.

Christian theology and Christian rules are fat with nonsense. I’ve never met a Christian who actually follows or agrees with all aspects of their faith. The religion is advancing. Throughout the centuries it has adapted to new undeniable scientific facts. What’s required is Popularizes of science for the idiot generation and this is where I think the internet will Triumph.

Although people might call themselves Christian, they aren’t really. Many don’t pray, don’t go to services, don’t even believe in the miracles. They believe in Jesus maybe. They believe in people. Christians like Atheists, don’t know what they are and I’d guess it’s the same for a lot of young Muslims etc. too.

Religions are dying. People are waking up to scientific explanations. Although they may still call themselves Christian Muslim etc.

Yes, I agree with most of what you said, but not that "the internet will triumph". Like Falconer360 pointed out, the internet is impartial. Also, just because theists don't believe in the added-on-later parts of their faith doesn't mean they are not just as religious as a devout theist. Even if you don't pray, God is still a presence over your head. You might not talk about him, but you still think about him. Once you abolish him that presence isn't there anymore.

And science still doesn't explain everything, and probably never will. My philosophy is that if you try to explain everything, you will be wrong, but if you're right, you will never explain everything.

Originally Posted by Falconer360

Personally I think that the internet will only end up encouraging more religious fanaticism.

e.g. http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/forum/index.php

Warning: participating in this linked forum has made me physically ill. This is not hyperbole. Visit it at your peril.

Originally Posted by 15uliane

Like Falconer360 pointed out, the internet is impartial. Also, just because theists don't believe in the added-on-later parts of their faith doesn't mean they are not just as religious as a devout theist. Even if you don't pray, God is still a presence over your head. You might not talk about him, but you still think about him. Once you abolish him that presence isn't there anymore.

I see the Internet as something that will evolve. All information will pass through it across the globe, from HD Skype, Books, Film, TV, Radio, to University lectures, tweets, blogs, videos, discussion forums, comment spaces… It will become the essence of the information Age. I believe acceptance of further scientific proofs over time by all people is inevitable, as history has proven. The internet, being a fluid means for communicating this information, makes it very much Partial to the liberating of religious mental slavery.

“just because theists don't believe in the added-on-later parts of their faith doesn't mean they are not just as religious as a devout theist.”

This sentence is a bit off from what I said. Some religious people believe in less theology and follow less rules, in accordance with advancing science. This certainly makes them less Religious than a devout Theist.

I don’t think you can abolish ‘That presence over your head’. It’s your own consciousness, inner voice, or moral compass etc. That’s God, not Religion or Theism.

Not a scientific discussion. Moved to General Discussion.

I don’t think you can abolish ‘That presence over your head’. It’s your own consciousness, inner voice, or moral compass etc. That’s God, not Religion or Theism.

Ooookkkaaayyy.... I don't feel a presence over my head.... I'm a catholic turned atheist, and I had no problem giving up God. I just realized he didn't exist one day. But anyways, God is your conscience??? So what about people like Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, and Jeffrey Dommer, who don't seem to have a conscience? I don't have a little voice in the back of my head telling me whats right and wrong, I evaluate the situation and do what is necessary. And when I do something that I"m not clear of the right choice, it is my own consciousness questioning whether I did the right thing, not God.

“Evil” people have a conscience, albeit an evil one. They may believe they are doing God's work, their interpretation of God. They may think they’re doing the devil's work, then the ‘devil’ is their God, their interpretation of devil/God. It is the set of ideas that guide them through their lives. That’s why I equate consciousness with God.

God and Religion are quite different. Religion is man made rules and storytelling.

The latter point I’ve made on this thread is that Religion: Theism, Scripture & Religious laws, are dying out. And the internet helps enlighten people to the progress of the world. Even the stupidest TV show makes reference to new science. This is a subliminal form of education.

Not your consciousness, just something you think about when you do something or just when you are lying down at night doing nothing. Thinking about God/him being there doesn't help you make decisions, it's just something you ponder.

Falconer360 just has a consciousness, not a god. There is a difference, imo.

Originally Posted by pedronaut

God and Religion are quite different. Religion is man made rules and storytelling.

In that case, they probably will die, because first of all, they have many inner contradictions, and when you add science disproving so called "facts" stated by religious institutions, a good majority of the rules and beliefs set down by the people in charge will be void.

That doesn't mean theism will die, theism is just the belief in God.

I too agree that Falcon has a consciousness not a god.

I just think that people who are guided by God, are mistaking their own consciousness for God. They don't have the slightest concept of psychology.

Yeah Theism is belief in God, i meant to say Theology not Theism.

Originally Posted by Ophiolite

Originally Posted by Falconer360

Personally I think that the internet will only end up encouraging more religious fanaticism.

e.g. http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/forum/index.php

Warning: participating in this linked forum has made me physically ill. This is not hyperbole. Visit it at your peril.

had a casual glance at it + feel no inclination to join, seeing how trigger-happy the admins are to ban people with dissenting views

Originally Posted by marnixR

Originally Posted by Ophiolite

Originally Posted by Falconer360

Personally I think that the internet will only end up encouraging more religious fanaticism.

e.g. http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/forum/index.php

Warning: participating in this linked forum has made me physically ill. This is not hyperbole. Visit it at your peril.

had a casual glance at it + feel no inclination to join, seeing how trigger-happy the admins are to ban people with dissenting views

I too looked at it and was disgusted. I wanted to throw up, especially after reading the site's banner:

Welcome to the Evolution Fairytale Forum! Our moderated forum is a place for honest, educational, civil, and fun debate on the topic of origins.

Don't think I saw a single place on their that seemed to match their banner. More like "Our harshly censored forum, where logical thinkers are booted, and nonsense is supported."

Wise choices both of you. I'm much dumber. I keep going back in small doses - I can't handle more than that. (Perhaps a masochist or an optimist at heart.) The delusional, hypocritical, self righteousness there is what gives religion a bad name.

Originally Posted by Ophiolite

Wise choices both of you. I'm much dumber. I keep going back in small doses - I can't handle more than that. (Perhaps a masochist or an optimist at heart.) The delusional, hypocritical, self righteousness there is what gives religion a bad name.

eh I just don't have the time to argue with more dumbasses. Arguing with those people is like yelling at a wall. I spend enough time arguing on the website for a creation club that is local to me. I keep going back, hoping to talk sense into them, only to have them stick their fingers in their ears and go "lalalalala we can't hear you." Ophiolite, I don't think you're a masochist, I'd say we're just optimists. lol

It's ironic how these morons refer to intelligent design.
It's a design system they are too stupid to make any sense of. They're idiots. Sell them junk, tell them who to vote for and let them eat cake..

I don't think the internet will help. If anything it will polarize our opinions as it becomes more tailored to meet out curiosities and views. If I google something about Islam for example, I'm far more likely to hit an Arabic web site or secular article as compared to an active Evangelical who might pull some example of Christians being abused or something similar--those patterns are based on our past clinks to links. Most of the search engines are getting better at tailoring like this and it's limiting their exposure to contrary views.

I don’t quite understand what you are saying about search engines, how they function or who’s searching for what and clicking what links.
Anyway, you are speaking of a 1 dimensional internet where we search for info we choose. What about information we are exposed to without actually looking for? News for example.

It won’t be difficult for Creationists, or at least children of Creationists, to back down and admit the validity of evolution. They don’t have to loose Creationism altogether, just push it back. Modernize the theory to ‘God created everything, designed it all, BUT in the same way we are bound by scientific law, god bound herself to scientific law when creating us. Like, OMG, he was so intelligent that he gave the big bang just the right amount of energy for our universe to play out as it has.

Forget about that nice dream, Pedro. You have 3 reasons for your utopia not to happen:
1/ Internet is working presently as a cluster of communities, pretty well isolated. There is a constant flow of information coming from the outside world and the net istself, percolating in these various clusters. However, each is having a "relative permeabiltiy" to the various informations. For example, the latest news about a discovery of a new life form in the Cambrian will be ignored by the gamer community... Same applies to the religious/creationist communities. Nothing new in that: Amish nuclear physicist are under-represented in the US and jewish farmer as well...

2/ Once an information has reached a community, it will be still filtered. It means the community will decide to keep what they want from it. All these processes are pretty similar, and Ophiolite will probably agree with me, with the generation and migration of hydrocarbons. Information reaching these communities is already filtered and shaped to fit their views.

3/ Finally, Creationnism and by extension, religion, are based on FAITH. Not on reason. I am surrounded, in Africa, by brainwashed pentecostal moron born-again colleagues. There is no way to make them think. They believe, they don't think. Religion is on a way summarize by 2 sayings:
a/the word "Islam" which means "Submission (to the will of God)" and,
b/ when I was in the army, our sergeant used to say "To think is to start to desobey".
All is said. Be submissive and stop to think. To have faith in something does not presupposed to have proof or logical argument. Thomas did not have faith in Jesus resurrection. Thomas was a scientist. He is seen as bad guy...
Therefore, the few information which is reaching religious/fanatics/white supremacist/satanist/jerryspringerists or whatever the morons will be rejected or will be used to comfort their views. "No rapture: don't worry, the world was not ready, but wait till October.".

I don't think internet will enlight anyone, the content is not homogenous enough, we are not talking about the Diderot Encyclopediae .

Ophiolite, very depressing forum you gave, here is something more interesting:
http://assembly.coe.int/Main.asp?lin...7/ERES1580.htm

Originally Posted by pedronaut

I don’t quite understand what you are saying about search engines, how they function or who’s searching for what and clicking what links.
Anyway, you are speaking of a 1 dimensional internet where we search for info we choose. What about information we are exposed to without actually looking for? News for example.

The news is the same way. That Evangelical is far more likely to watch Fox news or something even closer to his views within the many religious based or ultra religious conservative Internet communities to get their news. Meanwhile I'll occasionally go to public broadcasting, the BBC, sometimes even Al Jazeera or for different perspectives on general news and sites like "Science News," "EurekAlert," or "Scientific American" because they fit my interest. Even the big news outlets are tailoring; for example, the New York Times does a pretty good science news segment.

How many Evangelicals go to Al Jezeera or Scientific American for their news do you know? On the other hand I seldom go to the 700 club for its take on events.

It won’t be difficult for Creationists, or at least children of Creationists, to back down and admit the validity of evolution.

Most are immune to reason when it comes to assessing biological science and they'll deliberately avoid or deny anyone or any Internet site that suggest otherwise.