Notices

View Poll Results: what voice does your mind use?

Voters
3. You may not vote on this poll
  • not my own

    2 66.67%
  • my own

    1 33.33%
Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: the voice of thought

  1. #1 the voice of thought 
    Forum Bachelors Degree
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    416
    I've observed that the voice my thoughts take in my mind are very rarely similar to my own voice. is this a normal occurrance or is it the norm for our minds to replicate our own voices for thought?


    physics: accurate, objective, boring
    chemistry: accurate if physics is accurate, slightly subjective, you can blow stuff up
    biology: accurate if chemistry is accurate, somewhat subjective, fascinating
    religion: accurate if people are always right, highly subjective, bewildering
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,699
    It all depends. Sometimes it uses no voice at all. It's when I'm most productive. Speaking your thoughts is far too slow. Visualization is far more effective.

    IS


    Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,416
    Can't tell and wonder how anyone could, that is unless they're deluded somehow and think it's some external agent, which come to think of it is either considered faithful or crazy depending on the circumstance.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,699
    Another consideration is that the voice you hear doesn't sound the same as the voice others hear coming from you. This is of course due to acoustic reasons. So perhaps the question should be the voice you hear or the voice others hear. This is really kind of an oddball question. The mind being a powerful little sucker can even have a chorus of voices if so desired, this however would be a bit abnormal on a day to day basis.

    IS
    Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    8,231
    I don't hear voices. :P


    I think mainly in images/movies and concepts mixed together.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,255
    I only hear voices when I am trying to convert my thoughts into coherent sentances. The rest of the time, my thoughts take some sort of non-visual, spatial form that is impossible to describe, but which is more like 'feeling' than 'seeing'.
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Bachelors Degree
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    416
    this is a very interesting thing. there seems to be a lot of variability in the phenotype of how we organize our thoughts. the evolutionary implication of this is that the different methods have little effect on fitness, or the mutation rate is very high.

    and as far as "hearing voices" that's usually characterized by hearing voices saying things other than your own thoughts. my second to second way of thinking is by using language to convey ideas within my mind, rather than images, it seems to resemble the way Drowsy turtle thinks when he is trying to convert ideas into sentences.

    i'm not sure anyone is accurately describing their processes of thought, it's hard to explain an entire system of thought to somebody who doesn't use it. it seems there are three main systems(at least represented in this small sample), Visualization, verbal thought, and a "spatial form that is impossible to describe, but which is more like 'feeling' than 'seeing'"
    physics: accurate, objective, boring
    chemistry: accurate if physics is accurate, slightly subjective, you can blow stuff up
    biology: accurate if chemistry is accurate, somewhat subjective, fascinating
    religion: accurate if people are always right, highly subjective, bewildering
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard i_feel_tiredsleepy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    2,256
    Or it could just be a failure of language. We may simply not be able to adequately describe how we think, thus different individuals conceptualize of it differently.

    However, I think internal monologue, to some level at least I guess, is a pretty much universally reported phenomena... Often people even subvocalize their internal monologues, and this can be detected by machines. We actually subconsciously move some of the muscles involved in speech when we're thinking about something verbally. It's most pronounced when we're thinking of how to actually say things.

    Although, this stuff is always going to be hard to discuss. Henry James famously said about investigating consciousness that "The attempt at introspective analysis in these cases is in fact like seizing a spinning top to catch its motion, or trying to turn up the gas quickly enough to see how the darkness looks." Can you really use conscious thought to examine how conscious thought works?
    "I almost went to bed
    without remembering
    the four white violets
    I put in the button-hole
    of your green sweater

    and how i kissed you then
    and you kissed me
    shy as though I'd
    never been your lover "
    - Leonard Cohen
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    64
    I agree with the above.
    Although, I think to some extant we can describe how we experience thought-I experience it as merely an internal monologue. It is always in my own voice; I feel as though I'm personally saying every thought I have, albeit not out loud. I was the one who voted "my own" for this reason.

    I do think there are some practical differences.
    Quote Originally Posted by (In)Sanity
    It all depends. Sometimes it uses no voice at all. It's when I'm most productive. Speaking your thoughts is far too slow. Visualization is far more effective.

    IS
    I have observed myself using visualizations in a few occasions since I last posted in the "How do you think?" thread I made in the psychology section (and I'm sure I have done so all along), however it is still relatively rare and definitely not my primary means of understanding something.

    I am also somewhat of a slow individual-perhaps one can say the opposite of quick witted.
    If I want to say anything at all in a conversation I am forced to talk before I can think about what I want to say; I simply don't have much time. When a group of people are discussing, and I want to add something, by the time I can come up with something the topic of conversation has often already shifted.
    I read extremely slowly-well below the national average (~150 words per minute according to a test I took on the internet).

    I think it would really be a cool experience to be able to visualize.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,699
    Quote Originally Posted by C.Elrod
    I agree with the above.
    Although, I think to some extant we can describe how we experience thought-I experience it as merely an internal monologue. It is always in my own voice; I feel as though I'm personally saying every thought I have, albeit not out loud. I was the one who voted "my own" for this reason.

    I do think there are some practical differences.
    Quote Originally Posted by (In)Sanity
    It all depends. Sometimes it uses no voice at all. It's when I'm most productive. Speaking your thoughts is far too slow. Visualization is far more effective.

    IS
    I have observed myself using visualizations in a few occasions since I last posted in the "How do you think?" thread I made in the psychology section (and I'm sure I have done so all along), however it is still relatively rare and definitely not my primary means of understanding something.

    I am also somewhat of a slow individual-perhaps one can say the opposite of quick witted.
    If I want to say anything at all in a conversation I am forced to talk before I can think about what I want to say; I simply don't have much time. When a group of people are discussing, and I want to add something, by the time I can come up with something the topic of conversation has often already shifted.
    I read extremely slowly-well below the national average (~150 words per minute according to a test I took on the internet).

    I think it would really be a cool experience to be able to visualize.
    Hmm, very interesting. I've been typing for so long that I can actually type complete words and even sentences without a single verbal thought crossing my mind. It's almost as if I've developed a typing co processor in my own mind. Others do the same I'm sure and their are many activities like driving for instance that you don't have to talk yourself through, then again I sometimes wish some people would
    Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by (In)Sanity
    Hmm, very interesting. I've been typing for so long that I can actually type complete words and even sentences without a single verbal thought crossing my mind. It's almost as if I've developed a typing co processor in my own mind. Others do the same I'm sure and their are many activities like driving for instance that you don't have to talk yourself through, then again I sometimes wish some people would
    That is true-when I type I normally type the words as I think them. Sometimes I must make minor edits as I am typing, or I must pause in order to think of a more concise way to word something that I understand. I am not consciously aware of myself thinking with anything other than words however. Although there must be something else going on that I simply don't see; I haven't got a clue how I go about generating the thoughts as I think them.
    However, if you use visual means for working through problems when you are at your most productive, then this is definitely a distinct difference-I cannot work through problems with other means consciously.

    When it comes to writing on forums i normally have little trouble; I simply just type whatever comes to mind. On other forums I have done well in "debates" (although the average poster quality was much lower than that of this forum!), and never really had a problem expressing myself, and have generally done a good job of being able to understand the arguments and view points of others-although this could have other causes (I've normally interested in trying to understand the viewpoints of others).
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Guest
    I don't know if it's because I don't think scientifically or mathematically by nature, but it seems that my form of thinking is far different from that of other members on this forum.

    In(Sanity),
    Do you believe in verbal thinking, that is to say via voices in one's head? I believe that it's plausible that individuals that think verbally see the words along a page and associate them with mutually compatible concepts and their interrelationships.

    For example, consider the following statement:

    "The dog jumped over the fence."

    I think that it is more likely that a verbal thinker would recognize the statement "The dog" and associate it with the concept of a domestic member of the Canidae family, than read "[...]jumped over the fence." as the second concept representing an action of jumping over a fence. The interrelationship would be the domestic member of the Canidae family jumping over a fence, therefore leading what would be the equivalent of a thought.

    This epistemological syntactic form of insight is devoid of rigor, of course, and I'm merely suggesting a rough interpretation. I do believe that verbal thinking in terms of simply talking to oneself does exist, however.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Isotope (In)Sanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,699
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellatha
    I don't know if it's because I don't think scientifically or mathematically by nature, but it seems that my form of thinking is far different from that of other members on this forum.

    In(Sanity),
    Do you believe in verbal thinking, that is to say via voices in one's head? I believe that it's plausible that individuals that think verbally see the words along a page and associate them with mutually compatible concepts and their interrelationships.
    I use many method's of thought. Some concepts and ideas have zero mental verbalization involved at all, the answer or concept merely appears in my head and I can manipulate it in 3D space. It's visualization. If I'm proof reading something I had just typed while on auto pilot then I tend to verbalize each word and sentence and sometimes will repeat that sentence until it appears to make sense. Tasks that are related to my job as a database programmer I normally have virtually no verbalization for at all. I simply know the answers without any perceivable thought. Others I will manipulate in 3D space until they work. There is no one correct process for every situation.

    IS
    Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •