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Thread: Irrational hatred of science

  1. #1 Irrational hatred of science 
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    Hi everyone. I'm a writer, amateur comedian, philosopher, and have always had a great interest in science and skepticism. Recently I started writing articles for a site entitled "Things that Shouldn't Still Exist." My most recent article is on hatred towards science (which seriously has no right still existing-- particularly in developed nations). Anyhow, I'm always looking for more topics to write about, so if anyone has suggestions, let me know. So far, I've also covered: Racism, Ghost Hunting, Square Dancing, and Circumcision. The site is an odd mix of philosophy and humor (which is necessary when you're an analytical thinker in a world of dubious, frustrating cultural norms).

    May rational thought save my sanity.

    Jason

    http://thingsthatshouldntstillexist.wordpress.com


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  3. #2  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    How do you feel about a rational hatred of science?


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  4. #3  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    Indeed, my hatred for science is derived from being a scientist for more than a decade. Is experience based. Might even be semi-rational.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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  5. #4  
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    And why did being a scientist for over a decade make you hate science? I'm interested, so do tell.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    The obvious reasons.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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  7. #6  
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    Ah yes, how could I have been so daft. Now I got it; it's clear as a pane of glass smashing against my face.
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  8. #7  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    The last year and a half of constant harassment, insults and career killing by the supervisor didn't help my love for science of course.

    But there is also the backstabbing of the colleagues to consider of course. Some minor backstabbing could be acceptable of course, but I already encountered 2 major counts of backstabbing.

    Then there is the small notion of scientific misconduct. Apparently normal standard scientific procedure equals scientific misconduct. I actually got taught to do science in an immoral fashion. And they expect me to be happy about that. This includes publication of irreproducible results, spreading confidential information,mismanagement of resources, iffy financial constructions, and wasting tax payers money on personal stuff. You have to keep your mouth shut about these things if you want a career. Then there is the nepotism of course. Or the fake feminism, which basically means lowering standards for girls, and raising them for men. It also means looking away when male groupleaders grope for female PhD students in a drunken state at parties. Or sleeping with them.

    It's mostly a corrupt piece of crap where I have worked most of the time. Science isn't all like that, but you have a good chance landing in a situation like that if you do science.

    Oh, and then there is the science. Turns out that science is the least important thing of doing science. Just apply the standard favourite lab technique to your model system and if the problem gets too complex just switch model systems instead of going deeper.

    Do I sound bitter? Well, science made me.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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    Quite an interesting read. It sounds like you landed in several really sucky situations and got a raw deal. Anyhow, my article is about the scientific method and does point out that people who aren't doing it correctly are wrong, not the method itself. Also, my article is more for the layman, not someone who is embittered (rightfully by the sound of it) by his experiences in the field. Anyhow, I really enjoyed reading your explanation, so thank you for that. If anyone else would like to add their experience in the world of science, go right ahead. Otherwise, I still await suggestions for things that shouldn't still exist.
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  10. #9  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    This morning I heard a story of a supervisor not agreeing with the P value of the experiment. The P value was not good. Why? because it was insignificant. The supervisor wanted it significant. Naturally, it is impossible to change the outcome of a statistical test, so to complain about an undesirable P value is silly at the least.

    Most group leaders know nothing about statistics btw. They don't even realize you should do a dry run with the statistical setup before you do the experiment in order to see if you could get an interesting outcome at all. And that you can't just change the experiment once you started it. Yet it is all common practice.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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  11. #10  
    Forum Ph.D. Raziell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    The last year and a half of constant harassment, insults and career killing by the supervisor didn't help my love for science of course.

    But there is also the backstabbing of the colleagues to consider of course. Some minor backstabbing could be acceptable of course, but I already encountered 2 major counts of backstabbing.

    Then there is the small notion of scientific misconduct. Apparently normal standard scientific procedure equals scientific misconduct. I actually got taught to do science in an immoral fashion. And they expect me to be happy about that. This includes publication of irreproducible results, spreading confidential information,mismanagement of resources, iffy financial constructions, and wasting tax payers money on personal stuff. You have to keep your mouth shut about these things if you want a career. Then there is the nepotism of course. Or the fake feminism, which basically means lowering standards for girls, and raising them for men. It also means looking away when male groupleaders grope for female PhD students in a drunken state at parties. Or sleeping with them.

    It's mostly a corrupt piece of crap where I have worked most of the time. Science isn't all like that, but you have a good chance landing in a situation like that if you do science.

    Oh, and then there is the science. Turns out that science is the least important thing of doing science. Just apply the standard favourite lab technique to your model system and if the problem gets too complex just switch model systems instead of going deeper.

    Do I sound bitter? Well, science made me.
    Spurious you need only be backstabbed one more time and also invent something powerfull and unique. Then you can become one of those mad scientist super villains that takes revenge on everyone that wronged you and then turn your hatred to the world. Preferably with some kind of doomsday device!

    Youll need a cool name though!
    A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it. - David Stevens
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  12. #11  
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    isn't spuriousmonkey a supercool evil name????
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  13. #12  
    Forum Ph.D. Raziell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    isn't spuriousmonkey a supercool evil name????
    I dont want to answer that cause, if i tell you the truth ill be first on your list
    A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it. - David Stevens
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    isn't spuriousmonkey a supercool evil name????
    The image of a spurious monkey holding a Cheshire Cat comes to mind.

    I'm curious. What field you were working.

    I my seven years as an atmospheric scientist and three as an Army research analyst I never saw anything overtly dishonest. What I did see occasionally were x-military contractors who'd traded their love of "duty, honor, country" for profit formed incentives for lies of omission or simply not recommending testing that should be done for fear of unfavorable results.
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  15. #14  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    spurious kills mice for a living - in a few months from now that should read "spurious used to kill mice for a living"
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    The last year and a half of constant harassment, insults and career killing by the supervisor didn't help my love for science of course.

    But there is also the backstabbing of the colleagues to consider of course. Some minor backstabbing could be acceptable of course, but I already encountered 2 major counts of backstabbing.

    Then there is the small notion of scientific misconduct. Apparently normal standard scientific procedure equals scientific misconduct. I actually got taught to do science in an immoral fashion. And they expect me to be happy about that. This includes publication of irreproducible results, spreading confidential information,mismanagement of resources, iffy financial constructions, and wasting tax payers money on personal stuff. You have to keep your mouth shut about these things if you want a career. Then there is the nepotism of course. Or the fake feminism, which basically means lowering standards for girls, and raising them for men. It also means looking away when male groupleaders grope for female PhD students in a drunken state at parties. Or sleeping with them.

    It's mostly a corrupt piece of crap where I have worked most of the time. Science isn't all like that, but you have a good chance landing in a situation like that if you do science.

    Oh, and then there is the science. Turns out that science is the least important thing of doing science. Just apply the standard favourite lab technique to your model system and if the problem gets too complex just switch model systems instead of going deeper.

    Do I sound bitter? Well, science made me.
    I know this sounds terrible but I feel too that sometimes women (and minorities) in this day and age have an easier time succeeding in science though men on average still tend to have a higher annual income. Affirmative action and lustful old men can account for much of this. Personally, I'd rather work with other guys than girls b/c sexy women tend to distract me to the point were I can't get any work done.

    As for the backstabbing...it seems to me that you should try some backstabbing of your own. Get published without permission from your supervisor and then find a better job. That or find another career.
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  17. #16  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    I might do the unthinkable. Hold them responsible for their actions.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    The last year and a half of constant harassment, insults and career killing by the supervisor didn't help my love for science of course.

    But there is also the backstabbing of the colleagues to consider of course. Some minor backstabbing could be acceptable of course, but I already encountered 2 major counts of backstabbing.

    Then there is the small notion of scientific misconduct. Apparently normal standard scientific procedure equals scientific misconduct. I actually got taught to do science in an immoral fashion. And they expect me to be happy about that. This includes publication of irreproducible results, spreading confidential information,mismanagement of resources, iffy financial constructions, and wasting tax payers money on personal stuff. You have to keep your mouth shut about these things if you want a career. Then there is the nepotism of course. Or the fake feminism, which basically means lowering standards for girls, and raising them for men. It also means looking away when male groupleaders grope for female PhD students in a drunken state at parties. Or sleeping with them.

    It's mostly a corrupt piece of crap where I have worked most of the time. Science isn't all like that, but you have a good chance landing in a situation like that if you do science.

    Oh, and then there is the science. Turns out that science is the least important thing of doing science. Just apply the standard favourite lab technique to your model system and if the problem gets too complex just switch model systems instead of going deeper.

    Do I sound bitter? Well, science made me.
    Sounds like every place i've worked in, and only one of them in a scientific environment.
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  19. #18  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    Yes, it seems a common them among humans. We like to make each other miserable for no good reason.

    I wonder the origin of this kind of behavioral patterns.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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  20. #19  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    misery shared is misery halved ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  21. #20  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    but is more like misery delivered than shared.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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  22. #21  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    well, if you can find a poor sod to dump ALL of your misery on, why should you hesitate ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  23. #22  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    Moral upbringing.

    Or in this case the lack of.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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