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Thread: A Discussion Between Friends

  1. #1 A Discussion Between Friends 
    New Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Hi Science Forum, I made an account on this website because I'd like to tell you a little story between my friends and I. Late one night my friends and I had a conversation that was mainly about consolidating a belief system from science and religion to apply to our lives.

    Let me first tell you a little about myself and where I come from. I was raised in a family that put a great emphasis on science, but my parents gave me the freedom to believe whatever I wanted to believe from an early age. Essentially we applied the Constitution's freedom of religion (or any set of beliefs) clause to a micro-sized family level practice. The people around me also put an emphasis on science but they had to consolidate their Christian beliefs into what they learned about science from school, others, and TV programs.

    So my story begins when my friends picked me up late one night and they started to talk amongst themselves how they consolidate what they know about science with their Christian background. One of my friends (who is interested in becoming a science teacher) had what I believed a healthy combination of the two, while the other two friends were willing to believe scripture from the Bible over many of the things science has given us information on.

    When the discussion came around to me and what I believe I said I do not believe the god depicted in the big three religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) exists. I told them I could look at the writings of the Bible or Qu'ran and say honestly to myself "I do not believe this happened" or "The events or miracles depicted in this book are not consistent with the rules from the world I have lived in and observed." There are days I wake up and I'm in such a negative mood where I could go on an anti-religious rant, bashing certain aspects of religion to all the points where I believe they have stolen such positive potential from the human experience, but these were my good friends and I wouldn't disrespect their beliefs like that.

    At one point in the discussion my friends asked me the big question: where did we come from if it wasn't God? I told them I was a firm believer in the theory of natural selection and although the process is long, it is logical (at least to me) All it would have taken to start the process of life and survival here on earth was one life form from space crashing onto the planet and because earth eventually became the kind of planet that could support life, the process of adaptation and and survival would of eventually (leaving out a lot of into here, I know) lead to homo sapiens.

    The more interesting concept, at least to me, is not where homo sapiens came from, but where all life came from. My friends certainly believe there was a beginning where God created all life, but they were curious what I thought. My next belief is perhaps the crux of my whole argument and why I am telling you this story today: I do not believe there was a beginning. This idea of mine was inspired by the mathematical number line, infinite numbers in both directions. There has always been life and there will always be life. Every individual life will start and end, it is even possible that one day earth will be destroyed and all homo sapien life will end. But I very strongly believe that there is life elsewhere. Each life will run its own amazing course, just like all life on earth is doing now.

    In my mind I have a few very deep-rooted ideas of science. One of these is that matter doesn't generally disappear, or come out of nowhere. It has very intricate ways of changing, and I could spend ten lifetimes studying chemistry to find the specific ways in which it changes, but that's the basic idea. In these terms I could never accept the idea that God willed a space with nothing in it to have things in it. Or even if I did accept that idea, the next question I would wonder is what willed God to exist? Some force must be acting to take God into a form in physical space. If I accept the idea that time and all current matter in the universe extends infinitely into both directions, the issue of a true beginning finally makes sense in that, there was not a true beginning.

    The biggest problem with my idea that my friends had was "Whoa whoa whoa, with the Big Bang and pictures we can take of space show that the universe is expanding from a given point, that strongly implies that there was a beginning." I believe that's true. I believe the Big Bang was a beginning for our universe in it's current state. But not a true beginning. Like I said before, I cannot accept the idea of matter coming out of nowhere. I like to see the expanding universe at the moment as one of the universes "cycles." There have been infinite cycles before this one, and infinite cycles after this one, all with the same amount of matter and all with the possibility of supporting life. I support this idea to the death because at the core of my belief rests that logically in my mind, the idea of a "true" beginning does not make sense. But this idea of mine relys on a kind of gut instinct. From what I know about science there would be no evidence to suggest that other cycles have ever existed. This makes sense. I could in no way prove to the science community that there have been other cycles, because the universe right now is in the image of a particular cycle, evidence of cycles before have been erased by the process of time and activity.

    My friends didn't like my idea of "cycles" because I could in no way prove it, but I still stick to it. I guess my "faith" that the universe works in cycles is similar to my friends "faith" that there is an all-knowing omnipotent God. I think there is a good deal of some deal of "faith" in all of our lives, all of the people on this forum have faith in various scientists that their experiments and results are accurate, if we did not have this kind of faith there would be no way of truly believing any principle of science unless each and every one of us ran did the thousands of hours of experimentation needed to create a well-supported scientific conclusion ourselves.

    I'd like to know from the science forum community, are that others that are open to the idea that other cycles existed before this one started by the event we call the Big Bang? If you believe any of my ideas are wrong and can explain to me in a logical process why they are wrong I'd like to hear from you. If you'd like to submit some of your own ideas/opinions to the discussion that would be helpful too. Thanks for reading and thinking about my ideas.

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